Bitcoin Forum

I just posted a new "idea" for discussion on the TED website... Bitcoin and it's ramifications seem perfect for the TED audience and I imagine many people would be quite interested to see a TED talk on this. I'm approaching it from a "how could this effect the developing world as it relates to globalization" angle.

I'd encourage you to post your comments:

http://www.ted.com/conversations/5293/bitcoin_commerce_without_bor.html (http://www.ted.com/conversations/5293/bitcoin_commerce_without_bor.html)

Way to go, evoorhess! Way to go!

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Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending

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I must ask... if you think it was a good idea, please go leave a comment in that discussion to help bump it within the TED site =)

this is perfect!  ;D

+1

Keep in mind, evoorhees, there's also TEDx. http://www.ted.com/tedx

Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending

Very nice. Thank you sir!  

Excellent!

Thanks man.

The page seems to have been deleted!

This idea if FULL of win!!

+ 1000  ;D

Me too.

Wow - that's not nice! I actually took the time to register and comment...

Any word on what's going on?

the reason why so many of you fail at promoting bitcoin and end up doing the exact opposite and fucking it over, is because people need to get to it on their own, like it's the best kept secret ever, which in some ways it still is. It's the lucrativeness that bring people to it, not some bullshit marketing or advertising
All it needs is people who accept bitcoin and face to face word of mouth, by people that know what they are talking about. 

the way you guys go about doing this shit, has the S's (schemer, scammer and spammer) written all over it.

You mean like 4chan did it?

did what?

Rules 1 and 2 (http://www.google.com/search?q=rules+1+and+2&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a)

They did remove the conversation! I got an email saying it was "too self-promotional." I've written them back and will update here if they respond.

If I had posted there ten years ago about how VoIP protocol might change the way the the world talks to each other, would they have removed it?! How is Bitcoin different?

Textbook definition of ironic actually, considering Bitcoin is decentralized P2P.

(My guess would be that an admin belongs to the "Bitcoin is a pyramid scheme" crowd)

1) Did you actually read the convo I had opened at TED?

2) If so, how could you possibly have perceived that as "spammy"??

The convo was totally appropriate, given TED's audience and demographics. The entire thesis was how Bitcoin may change economic relationships in poor countries. I understand some on these forums have spammed promotion... but I don't, and this wasn't.

Agreed evorhees, your convo was perfectly reasonable for TED. That it got pulled, though, is just another measure of the credibility problem Bitcoin seems to have. If you did anything wrong (and I don't think you did), it was timing it badly. We need to bring credibility to Bitcoin from the ground up. Not so much stability, mind you, as a sense of legitimacy which will have more to do with mainstream media and the academic world starting to look at Bitcoin in that light.

Don't worry, in a few years TED will want to have speakers on Bitcoin, cryptocurrency and digital money... in the meantime, let's get the word out through other channels.

And when that happens we'll show them this thread and the finger  :D

nope didn't need too, all of you guys that do this stuff have schemer written all over you.
Since you have taken offense to what I wrote I can only assume you don't seem to understand the concept of why people block your entrance and don't want to read you or hear you. People outside, see bitcoin as an email from that prince of nigeria because of what all of you guys are doing promoting bitcoin the way you are.

If you want, remember the idea of "best kept secret",
you want to know why mtgox is 8.79?
Promotion.
the more it gets promoted like this, the more the price is going to drop.

I'm not trying to offend anyone, but the whole idea, the root idea, of all of you guys promoting bitcoin is PROFIT.
Pure and simple, you want profit, and you cannot hide it, people see this so easy, the suspicion is correct too.
This is where the problem lies.

If you actually STOP promoting, the price will go up.

people see that downward curve and think "Okay, rats on a sinking ship."

That's what it looks like to an outsider.

It's supply and demand at the information level.

Seems you might be interested in PROFIT as well?  ;)

But anyway, could you explain the logic of how the price will go up by keeping it a secret?
This is not sarcasm. I really am interested in how you view this could work. 

A few months ago I actually got an automated email from TED informing me that someone had nominated me to speak about bitcoin. I personally feel there are better choices (Gavin springs immediately to mind) but perhaps my nominator wanted more of an end-user perspective than a developer?

In any case I will +1 this in every manner possible, I want us to get on TED and I don't care who speaks on the topic... Though I'd be lying if I didn't selfishly wish it were me ;D

Just saying, I'm pretty sure my work would give me time off with THAT as an excuse lol.

If you are to criticize someone's actions, at least make the tactical decision to know what those actions are... lest the perception develop that you may be ignorant of the subject on which you speak.

Maybe a TED talk about cryptocurrency in general would be better; less "self-promotional".

+1

As it turns out there are a few good examples of cryptocurrency floating around right now. Bitcoin and Namecoin are currently the most noteworthy but certainly we shouldn't exclude the others. If this happens, NMC should DEFINITELY be mentioned.

Without any doubt I'm in this for profit, if anyone tells you they are not, don't trust that guy. XD

Promotion of bitcoin, has people lining up to buy mining rigs,
this is monies spent entirely outside of bitcoin, that is not invested.
Every press release of a loss or hacking incident accumulates, which spooks the newer speculators and even miners of all ages into panic selling. Making them get burned in the process or leaving with very large sums never looking back. Right now, we have a crippling amount of miners and speculators being called in through mass promotion thinking "quick monies". Now anytime we see a spike, we can guarantee someone with a large sum is going to dump.

Really? Neither myself nor anyone I know is into Bitcoin "for profit". Changing the world, getting rid of unnecessary middlemen making money without bringing anything to the table, yes. Creating digital cash for the digital generation, yes. Removing the ability for government to devalue the worth of their citizens, yes.

However, some are, and I agree that the "trade buy buy buy profit!" messages don't really help in convincing people Bitcoin isn't ponzi/pyramid/early-adopter-get-rich etc.

Okay I can see that but I don't understand why you think keeping it a secret is the answer. Is there not a middle ground between "get rich quick" promotion and secrecy. That being good level-headed and balanced information; such as what I think a TED talk would do, if done right. 

TED is really for intellectuals. Thinkers never have money, they usually just figure out how to float systems, or spend all their time in their heads and their money archiving/collecting.
which is what most of us are. XD

People that do things, those are the people that rush in when the price of BTC is at $30.
They don't use the internet as much as we do. They get their info through face and phone, from people they have a record of trusting and good faith, guarded through the lines of communication they have chosen.

The other thing is this, and this is paramount, religion, do not ever talk badly about religion on the forums or in business. This is the true test of bitcoin. If it fails it will indeed be related to this. Statistics show 90% (+/-) of the population on earth have a belief system that relates to some form of religious view. So when the guys here get into this, it's like they are setting all of us and themselves on fire or peeing in our food and theirs.

TED talks are often about obvious common sense ideas, but most folks are not freethinkers. They don't understand simple ideas because they are brainwashed by society. Humans are animals. Animals don't need money and they live just fine. The concept of money is religious. Money exists only to people who believe in it. This is not a discussion about economics, just a fact that we are animals. Don't blame TEDsters for not accepting bitcoin. Bitcoin is a grassroots movement. Most people respond to authoritative religious movements because they are not freethinkers. It's like trying to argue that catholics are better than protestants. Bitcoin is just another money system to try and will eventually fail, but may work well for awhile. Time will tell.

All of that you wrote is opinion, full of cognitive dissonance.

Do you even know what "cognitive dissonance" means? Can you point out one example here that isn't fact or where I contradict myself?

I can't justify teaching you the inner workings of societal clauses, manifestations of macro-level decisions and the thought patterns that provoke those intricacies upon an entire populations.
Reasoning is only as strong as your logic provides it to be, therefore reasoning without solid logic backing it, is completely baseless. I can't possibly continue this with you without some form of benefit to myself.
What kind of music you listen to, is it full of discord and noise?

I also believe you are not qualified to do so.



Yet you fail to point out any contradictions.


This a lame attempt at a loaded question and Red Herring fallacy argument. Ignored.

...You can't deal with my infinite nature can you?


-asks me to explain some shit to him, tells me I'm not qualified.
XD

bravo!

Win!  ;D

no no no...

FLAWLESS VICTORY!

Serious, shit had me in grins. XD

Long live the Organization for the Organized!

Who doesn't like Alanis Morissette?

you are a woman?

I agree that all the promoting is a bad idea.  All the promoting you need is to use it.

Would you be disappointed if I was? Not that there's anything wrong with how you feel about men or women. Just follow your heart and be happy with who you are.

Evoorhees, I applaud your efforts. I did not get a chance to read the TED page, but I would have thought TED would be receptive to nouveau Technology Et Design.


But in general, I have to admit Tasty Champa makes a good point. People are impressed with results not ideas. Of the Jungian sensing/intuition dichotomy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator#Functions:_sensing.2Fintuition_.28S.2FN.29_and_thinking.2Ffeeling_.28T.2FF.29), 70% of people prefer (perceive the world through) sensing rather than intuition (saying nothing of general resistance to advertising).

Got a response from them after I inquired why the convo was removed:


I don't understand why they claimed it sounded "promotional"?  Most of the post I made was phrased in question form, such as "in what ways will Bitcoin permit various economic groups to interact across government boundaries.." etc. My only guess is that the mod there figured that Bitcoin was like Paypal, in being a company/organization. With that frame of reference, I can see why any mention of Bitcoin might seem promotional.

It does bother me that I must now repost a new convo, and hope that new people comment on it. I'm going to respond to their email and ask if the first post can be re-instated, and that I will edit it to fit better within their guidelines.

All part of the struggle =)

When spending time on anything you hold with intellectual value, keep a copy.
Also, I didn't respond to you because of your conducted level of abrasiveness.
Since you are determined to do this, please be completely subjective in your writing,
maybe even write about it like an outsider.
Let them also understand the pitfalls, as well as the benefits. You will get the discussion you want when you allow all points of view and do not try to control it's direction. Since you are taking this to thinkers, you have to allow them to think freely and unhindered. You really have to let them decide.

In my opinion, the most important contribution (by far) of bitcoin is that it enables true 2 party transactions to occur over the internet.  That has profound social implications and might be something that the TED crowd would would be interested in hearing about.  The fact that bitcoin isn't issued by a central authority is of secondary importance.

Talk about a double standard.  This "discussion" is basically a commercial for Shell.  We're not even a corperation.

http://www.ted.com/conversations/4228/a_conversation_with_shell_how.html

This is TED.  The problem isn't "promotion", it is that you are trying to promote the wrong thing.

Try rewriting it in the language of self-promotion.  You explain the social implications, but the subtext needs to be that you are totally awesome because you understand this cool new thing, and by extension the audience will be much cooler than all of the dumb proles out there because now they know it too.

And before anyone flames me, go watch a few talks.

TED is about rich people finding new shinies that will "change the world." There have been some great things brought to light through TED, but they are all too often then developed as weapons or buried as IP. Bitcoin can be neither.

you guys can shit on TED all you want but im pretty sure they removed the bitcoin posting because of the general immaturity and bellicose postings, if you want to be taken seriously be the utmost professional you can... what was exhibited on that page before being taken down was not professional, invoked a flame war... yada yada yada

If it was anything like this forum, it makes sense that they removed it.

We'll never know now, will we?

Yes, Evoorhees, perhaps you could start another TED conversation and not announce it on here, just to give it a chance to survive. On the other hand, you have to figure that when Sam Harris gives his TED talk, there's going to be hundreds of religious fanatics trying to derail it as well, yet somehow fail to do so.

please dont ever compare bitcoin to atheism or the four horsemen of the apocalypse ever again

Well, I for one intend to do what I feel like doing. But perhaps it might be educational for you to understand that what I was comparing was two ideas, both of them controversial in some way or another, both engendering strong passions in both adherents and detractors, which nevertheless have resulted in two radically different outcomes when it comes to the TED conferences. In that sense, they are eminently comparable.

I hope this wasn't because of me.  There is some really interesting stuff that shows up in TED talks, and it can be a great way to get interesting new ideas, like bitcoin, out there and in front of a fairly big audience.

But it is also and at the same time, a support group for narcissists.  That shouldn't surprise anyone, because it is essentially a generational evolution of the other big narcissism support group, TV news.

This is most easily seen by watching a few talks that are outside of your area of interest.  Since you won't be focused on the subject, you'll be able to see the other clues more easily.

Damn. 

+1

How about getting it working first? Like a client that doesn't take a day or three to download the whole block chain. Isn't there a client coming that doesn't need to download the entire block chain? I'm in no position to demand it, and I don't need it personally, but for someone new it can be offputting. Sure they can see their transaction in block explorer, but. . . .

There is a huge amount of missing infrastructure, like merchant software etc etc etc.

I think it is very premature to try and promote heavily without more of the basic building blocks available to the average end-user or the average merchant. Sure some nerds and geeks can figure it out eventually, but so what?

The Android app satisfies that need for mobile users. Fully functional wallet is only about 30-40mb I think.



Bit-pay.com is leading the charge on merchant software. They just finished an OpenCart plugin and are working on subsequent plugins over the coming weeks.

Also, badass open source POS system here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o84SfChQ-S8&feature=BFa&list=FLA5mKDEEJaTCScoGRe0IXZg&lf=mh_lolz (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o84SfChQ-S8&feature=BFa&list=FLA5mKDEEJaTCScoGRe0IXZg&lf=mh_lolz)

Bingo.  Premature promotion is exactly why bitcoin is in the negative position it's in right now in terms of both public opinion and exchange rate.  It wasn't ready for all the attention it got and a lot of that attention was generated by bitcoin promoters mouthing off about how fantastic it is ("up, up, up", etc.).

+1

At this point, we aren't really after end users.  I mean sorta.  We like it when they come along.  In the long run, we need them.  But the reason we cast our net today is because we are looking for the types of people that can help build the other stuff, and as the stuff gets built, the end users will show up.

This isn't really literal, of course.  We aren't actually recruiting anyone.  But we are telling anyone that wanders past that this thing is cool, and we are hoping that some will stay, and that some of those that stay will turn out to be builders.

It is quite simply actually. Is Bitcoin a currency or an asset?

In theory it is a currency but in reality it is an asset. How much % of all Bitcoins are on Mtgox? 30%? I read a post on this forum a while back about mtgox moving 2 million BTC's. Take in account all the other exchanges, hoarders and lost BTC's and you will realize that that Bitcoin is an asset, seized by speculators. Maybe it will end up being a currency, I dont know, but at this moment it is not.

Also consider that there are a lot of people profiting from 'new' money being pumped into BTC's (and it are not merchants because they want a currency witout 10% daily swings) so Ted being sceptical towards BTC's is imo completely justified.

Start a talk about cryptocurrency's and whatever is perfect but BTC is at this moment more of a product, an asset, so dont be surprised if they consider it a sales pitch.

I think it is very premature to try and promote heavily without more of the basic building blocks available to the average end-user or the average merchant. Sure some nerds and geeks can figure it out eventually, but so what?
[/quote]

I agree.  While we have made great strides in the last 6 months, more work needs to be done.

Really, with all the focus on media attention it seems like people are only interested in having yet another pump and dump, after the Bitcoin conference (announcements that will change the Bitcoin world!!!!!!!!) turned out to be a failure in this regard. I hope those people will finally jump off at some point …

I’m disappointed with the way things went ever since Bitcoin has gone parabolic, as it will take Bitcoin a very long time to recover any legitimacy in the eyes of the public, if it ever happens. This community certainly doesn’t help it.

So we actually have all the building blocks, yet the main devs think it is premature to tell anyone about it. Strange situation. Sort of self-denial.

I mean, not only do we have all those thing evoorhees mentions, we even have a new client (bitcoin-qt) ready, but do we tell anyone about it? Of course not, end users could find it usable and we don't want to have more users!

If this attitude persists, well, then bitcoin deserves to be replaced by some shitcoin - while those devs release mostly buggy software, they at least release anything. And more importantly, they promote their product.

Yeah, complete win :)

It's coming to Ted:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/106907500056938408759/posts/2PQQLPYkdca

Nicely done. I was going to contribute there, but if Erik is on it, you already have all the help you might ever need :-)

Keep up posted on what happens.

Great writing by Erik, as usual.  This is from the page, addressed to Erik:


This is incorrect right? How would redeeming the value on one coin invalidate the rest if they all have different keys?

I highlighted the important part - with identical coins he was referring to coins with identical (public and private) keys.

I see, but that would not be Cassascius coins then but some ridiculous scam that I would hope no one falls for. 

Now selling 10 BTC coins...Only 6 BTC each, free shipping  ;D