Bitcoin Forum

Much controversy surrounds these 2 coins with accusations being made of them being scamcoins. Currently these coins are the most talked about coins that haven't been released yet. Their are Accusations ranging from Etherum Goldman Sachs involvement and accusations of Emunie being centralized I wanted to make a poll to see what the community really feels. Everyone has 2 votes one for each coin and please elaborate on your reasoning in the comments.

At this time I am not taking a stance on either coin and this poll is purely to assess what the community thinks of each coin.

Your Mom is a scam. Carry on.

It is spelt 'Ethereum'.

And no, I do not believe it is a scam.

stop spamming threads with failed troll attempts.



And thanks, fixed the typo.

Interesting with 10 voters so far the communies 50/50 on emunie while 60% think ethereum is a scam.

I think there are enough topics on the matter.

eMunie is not a scam, if eMunie was a scam there wouldn't even be a beta client such evolved. The client is in beta (soon open beta) and it works x20000 better than any other Bitcoin copy out there.
If there was an intention to scam anyone, dan could have ran off weeks ago with more than enough in profits. This is the real deal, but.. you guys can keep on trolling and trying to move people away from the project, but we all know that the moment it goes live - it will be HUGE.

I'm a closed beta tester for emunie and i can confirm eMunie is NOT a scam, their beta client is amazing. Way better than Nxt client (no offense nxt!)

Wait till open beta is out and see for yourself!

is their an official launch date for emunie

If they change their name to "Goldwoman Sachs", yes, yes I would. :P

Also, this whole thread is a troll attempt either way. God knows we don't see enough threads asking/warning us about Ethereumm, and "The Man", or some "this is a scam" bullshit.

This thread is not a troll attempt it was purely made to asses the communities position on these coins. The only person here trolling is you and you're not very good at it.

Not the best place to ask this. Everything is a scam no matter what to the people here, it's just one big circlejerk.

Beside the fact that the last 2 options are redundant, this topic are meaningless. Wait at least them to release the beta, how can you judge a thing before have tried it?

The last 2 options aren't redundant because i'm asking for peoples opinion on the 2 coins. and the whole point of a pole is to see were people stand so what's your problem? and stealthcoin i think their still releasing the coin if it doesn't reach 30k btc the 30k btc is just the cap for the ipo.

Well I think the results show that not everyone thinks that.

interesting

That's ridiculous with the IPO, canceled IPO, and fairly disingenuous explanation of said cancellation and new IPO on the horizon. However, I don't think that eMunie is a scam. I don't think either outright intend to be, the question is whether or not people might feel cheated afterwards.

The danger I see with eMunie is that very little information on the mechanical details has been released as far as I can tell, though I haven't gone sifting through the entire forum. eMunie might not be the protocol that some people imagine it to be. Regardless, I think the likelihood of it doing well for some time may be high. However, the closer the IPO gets (is there a new date set yet?) without the technical details of the protocol being explained in a legible format should raise the wariness of investors. It's investing into a black box.

Ethereum on the other hand has been more open about the details, however there is very little in code (afaik) and they are/were asking for a ridiculous amount of money to make a protocol that has a lot of buzzwords that sound like cool ideas, but will they have a real near-term impact? My intuition is doubtful on that. It doesn't help that there is not just the IPO, but also setting their organization up with control of a large percentage of the currency. I think the risk of people feeling cheated by Ethereum is much higher.

Emunie is not a scam (beta is running)  ;D


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=444723.0

I don't think they are meant to be scam coins, but they will have serious legality problems...

eMunie is not a scam. I've seen their client and it is remarkably stable and complete. It has been in development and testing for over 8 months and will launch an open beta this week. If the founders have a scam in mind, they wouldn't have put so much effort in it.

ethereum is founded by Vitalik buterin, who has been writing very thought out articles about bitcoin with a high sense of ethics for over a year or two. Even though ethereum has been under development for only 2 months (still longer than most scamcoins), I simply trust ethereum based on the founders' reputation.
The goldman sachs thing sounds a bit too tin-foil-hat conspiracy to me.

Well the details are dynamic, they are changing as we speak.
This is the beauty of it all, it isn't a state that someone came up with a theoretical idea and went all in (as cool as it might be), every idea is tested, every option is valued - and in the end the best is taken.

So many technical aspects of the client have changed and might still change, the investment you make it the same as you make in any other coin - based on if you believe this can and will be a big thing.
No one makes you buy into this coin, this is 100% optional and there will be an option to get coins via hatching (similar to mining).

I think if you truly compare eMunie to any other coin (besides bitcoin), you will see that even prior launch, the efforts gone into development are huge - whilst other coins with over $50M in market cap don't have anything that differentiates them from the rest (besides block time / reward size).

of course both are scams

+1

"Here are once again a bunch of meaningless, flowery words from an eMunie supporter" that is all I see.


No one should believe a thing until the security and economic details have been released and it has some discussion from the community. The client is window dressing.


At the very least, they have a proven security system which eMunie does not. And it appears more and more like any whitepaper or details will be released at the last second before or maybe even during or after the IPO with as little public discussion as possible. Is Dan really so paranoid that someone is going to steal his amazing ideas and release something that copies them prior to the release of eMunie? Because that is absurd. That raises many questions as to why these details have not been released.

Has the exchange been tested?  You know, the bit that sends signals to the buffer to create more emu and keep everything stable. The reason for emunie to exist at all. Has it been written even?

Has the "bug" where Dan's hatchers get 10x more earnings than everyone else's been fixed yet? After all, that is 50% of all gains we're talking about.


I'm sure you wouldn't want people handing over their money otherwise.

both are scamcoins ;D

What do ENS and EDRC mean?


Telling.

both are garbage

[7:25:46 PM] Dan Hughes - eMunie: They can complain, the complainers are the ones that will get us into trouble selling children


Straight from the horses mouth, if you don't agree with Dan Hughes, you're a seller of children. Dan, you have outdone yourself on this one.



https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=439045.msg4930738#msg4930738

While I don't see eMunie as a scam, and I'm excited to see the system in action because I think it's unique and has some great ideas... I do think that the way the project is being handled and the way Dan and some others react to criticism has been, and continues to be, a huge PR disaster. I miss having a more open minded and community responsive dev team. IMO too many complaints have either been completely ignored, or deleted/shut down without any vote what so ever. In other words: what Dan says goes, if somebody disagrees.. well, tough luck. Don't question God.

My language here may be a little harsh, and Dan; if you read this - I hope you take it in the right way. You did after all create this system that I'm excited about. That's a very positive thing. But I feel that there can be an improvement in responsiveness and communication.

mrVegas or mrVegad (whichever it is in your attempt to hide "your" identity) as well as eid for cross-posting the discussion:

I'm utterly shocked and appalled at your apparent lack of any ethical or moral character.  To post the above discussions that were made in a private environment speaks volumes about you as a person.   To list the names of those that wish to remain anonymous implies you should consider a position at the NSA.  I’m sure they would welcome your lack of integrity with open arms.   

Frankly, I should not be surprised by your behavior above as you previously attempted to badger me incessantly on another topic to “tell me their names” within the beta chat box.  Thankfully, my integrity and moral compass is above such reproach.  I will unquestionably maintain the anonymity of ANYONE who wishes to remain so (including your identity) as this is only a decision each person can make on their own.  This, unfortunately, is not something you can apparently comprehend.

Until such time as you yourself come “out from the shadows” of anonymity and post your true name and relevant/verifiable identification I will consider you to be nothing more than a coward. 

And you consider yourself an American?  You should be ashamed of yourself.

1: I haven't posted anything from a private conversation. I believe everything above was posted in a public forum.

2: Ive never badgered you in a conversation, you must be thinking about someone else.

3: Your opinion of me is irrelevant. If you want to argue against my points, do so.

4: I'm not an American and have no wish to be.

5: Dan knows my identity. Posting in a public forum with your real name is foolish in my opinion.

1: I made this identity long before I was on emunie forum, hit the wrong key when making my username here and didn't catch it in time.
2: It was from skype
3: Those people choose to use their own names on skype.
4: Sorry to have badgered you, I was having a really bad day but there was no excuse for my behavior.
5: No, I don't call myself American.

By the way, congratulations on your meteoric rise from Newbie to Founder in less that one month. That's quite an achievement.

Also, it's nice to see you're actually capable of disagreeing with someone.

1: I made this identity long before I was on emunie forum, hit the wrong key when making my username here and didn't catch it in time.

A valid explanation.  Understood.

2: It was from skype
3: Those people choose to use their own names on skype.

So you copy/pasted this from skype directly with no care/concern for those who would be impacted? Or did you receive it from someone else?  

Either way your unapologetic behavior implies you are on the road to becoming a sociopath:

-Grandiose Sense of Self
-Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."
-Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
-Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
-Irresponsibility/Unreliability / Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams.

Notice the similarity to yourself with regards to your current actions?  

You might consider editing/removing your earlier post if you wish to avoid earning such a title.

4: Sorry to have badgered you, I was having a really bad day but there was no excuse for my behavior.

Apology for that incident accepted.  I, as well, was having a rough day.

5: No, I don't call myself American.

As is your right to claim so as an American (ideologically speaking)

No, the chat posted above is not from any public forum. It's from the private founders skype group. It shows that the poster (MrV) has no principles whatsoever, and that we should be glad that he left eMunie, among with people defending him. It's like we had the NSA directly within our group. Any points you may have had against Visin (but never gave any proof to the accusations), are now void anyway.

How so? I quoted a post made on a public forum. It showed Dans name and his words. Both are already in the public realm.

Also, I haven't defended anyone (so far).


Honestly the way people throw around accusations of being "NSA", perhaps Godwin's Law should be updated to include it.

1: I haven't posted anything from a private conversation. I believe everything above was posted in a public forum.


So standing by and "watching" someone's identity get "raped" and not saying anything about it, or rather encouraging such behavior by supporting it and cross-posting to another topic thread is acceptable behavior?

You provided a link above in mssg# 31.  On that topic you reference further this private trusted conversation.  It would seem as though both of you are sociopaths.  There's a reason most societies quarantine such individuals away from the general population.

2: Ive never badgered you in a conversation, you must be thinking about someone else.

See above for you support of his behavior.

3: Your opinion of me is irrelevant. If you want to argue against my points, do so.

I don't argue with morally deficient individuals.  My time is too valuable and would be wasted on someone incapable of comprehending them.

4: I'm not an American and have no wish to be.

Noted.

5: Dan knows my identity. Posting in a public forum with your real name is foolish in my opinion.

He knows your identity and yet he has NOT posted it publicly.  I feel that speaks VOLUMES about his integrity and professionalism.  However, you feel compelled to support and defend and individual without such character traits.  Telling indeed.

On MrV's principles


MrV gave up hours of his life every day for 8 (?) months in order to help develop emunie for free.

When he realised that the developer was unworthy of his trust, he threw that all away to follow his conscience.

He now finds himself in possession of damning material, showing the developer as he truly is which is obviously relevant to prospective investors. He decides to publish this material knowing full well his ex-colleagues will react just like they have.


I don't think it's MrV's integrity which is in question here.

Because you are one of the two main defenders of MrVegas. You've claimed that he left the eMunie project because of principles. Now it has been proven that he has no principles whatsoever, and his departure will make eMunie more secure, more private and generally better.

The link that you refer to does not include material from this private conversation at all. I wrote that post before I'd even read the skype conversation.

Dans identity was released by him, not me. It's no secret. So he hasn't released mine. That's hardly merit for a medal now is it? Besides which no one accused him of doing so.

The first time I defended MrV was AFTER your post.

The rest of your post is just gibberish quite honestly. Maybe you should go calm down before you post again.

You think it's ok for him to publish peoples real names? He considered at least two of them friends as of one week ago, and both have done no wrongdoing to him whatsoever. I think you should google for the word integrity.

The chat has also no damning material whatsoever. But posting peoples real names is an unbelievable breach of trust, worthy of the NSA.

As I have pointed out, I didn't defend MrV until after your accusation, so don' try and use it as evidence. Your mind is obviously clouded at the moment. I suggest you take a step back before posting again.

As I've already stated, MrV is definitely a man of principles.


Tell me, do you think Dan's words above are relevant to a future investor?

Ah, no I cant defend that. He should have blotted them out. My apologies, I thought you were talking about the material in general.



None of which changes my mind about MrV's principles, as I have already explained.

Final response to a sad little man whom obviously has never started or developed anything worthwhile.

I've read your posts regarding this "damning material".  An intelligent investor would see this as Dan having a keen sense of business savvy towards understand the threats and opportunities that could present themselves to his endeavors and thus accordingly consider all alternative chess moves in defense.    

Your other accusation regarding the 'balance of hatching' seeming unfairly aligned towards Dan.  What an utter lack of system and development skills you must possess.  This issue has already been resolved within the current beta and can be verified by anyone with a modicum of SQL skills.   Just because a programmer doesn't oil YOUR squeaky wheel at the time you cry like a baby does NOT mean he doesn't know it needs to be oiled.  There is a time for those fixes to occur and it is a matter of prioritizing the requirements during the development cycle.   How sad for you that you left before you could learn such aspects of programming and instead wanted to run off crying like a child when their ice cream fell off the cone.

Your both lines contradict each other.

His posting both of a private chat, and the real names of his friends, show that he has no priciples and is a ruthless person.


It shows that he wants to create an alternative to Paypal and Visa, and not Bitcoin.

We want to create a payment system that is fast and anonymous. At the same time we have decided to comply with all UK laws and use all our energy to impede any potential illegal activities in advance. This is probably why some founders have left. They have imagined eMunie as an anarchist revolution. The founders that are left see it as a global payment system that will be easy to use for anyone, decentralized, extremely fast, inexpensive (even free transactions are possible), but still with a compliance to the law.

You accuse me of being a child while ranting like one. It seems all you can do is attack me personally rather than present facts as they are. Shame.

Heres a few facts for you:

I was always near the top of the earnings list so have nothing to complain about on a personal level.

The damning material showed Dan's true beliefs about other peoples ideas and therefore is very relevant. Not damning on its own maybe, but relevant nonetheless.

I'm glad Dan has now fixed the "bug" where he was getting 10x more than everyone else. I hope future investors will keep a close eye on this.

This was only one of my reasons for leaving, as you well know.

I have no regrets for having left as I followed my conscience and continue to do so.

Or perhaps he just made a mistake in the heat of emotion, like so many round here.  ::)

My experience of MrV would suggest this to me. YMMV.

I know him as a very intelligent person. He does not make such mistakes. It was a ruthless act.

Tell me something, what do you think he gains by leaving the names of innocents in the post? Since he's such an evil genius, there must be something.

I cannot get into his head. Days after he left, he wrote me an email with some reasons (accusations) of why he has left. I've asked him for proof in response. In his reply he ignored this request. So I have no idea what his agenda is.

Ironically, you have sidestepped my question.


I guess we're done here.

I don't sit in front of a computer all day so i am unable to reply to everything.

i should have blocked out their names , a bad call on my part.

Investors should have all the info they need to make a decision about investing. Eid made a good point before about the exchange not being tested and not sure if its done being coded.

Peachy, calm down and im not from America.

Eid thank you for the responses you have made on my behalf.

I deleted the post.

I see you've gone back and edited this post so I'll reply to it.

What is shows is that Dan considers other peoples views as dangerous to his agenda and therefore he accuses them of having nefarious intent (child slavery of all things).

I've put a lot of effort into explaining my many reasons for leaving. Of course I cant speak for the founders, but I'd think you'd have realised by now the various possibilities. You are doing the same thing that Dan, Visin and others have done: trying to misrepresent people to make their reasons disappear or seem ludicrous.

Shame on you.

oh look who it is, the people who can't stop eMunie >.>

same bored, different day.

I assure you I hold no delusions about stopping emunie. I can however undo some of the damage I did promoting it, by now presenting the facts. This was all I intended and I'm reasonably content that I've done so to the best of my ability (though I'd have liked to do it on your forum too).

No one should complain about that unless they don't want the facts out there.

Whether you believe it or not, child slavery is a real issue in a lot of countries over the world. The point of the chat was that the exchange should try to prevent any illegal trades beforehand, so a tiny part of it must be centralized to disallow of some product groups. "children" was just the worst example we could think of, but it also refers to "heroin", "plutonium" etc. Dan was not accusing any specific person of wanting to do such trades, he was mainly pointing out that there are people out there that want to do it, and eMunie is not for them.


You have virtually spammed the eMunie forums with your "reasons". Every time you have posted an accusation or repeated an accusation MrVegas has put out I have asked for proof. You have ignored every such request. Yes, you may call that "a lof of effort". I have never attacked you personally, and stayed away from your feud with Visin.

As I wrote before, I still don't really know why some founders have left, because all I have seen were accusations, and many request for proof were outright ignored.

Could you provide links please? I don't remember this at all.


edit: to be honest it has nothing to do with my post anyway. When I said I'd put in a lot of effort, I meant when I went back to the chatbox and explained my reasons, and also my posts on this forum, outlining in detail why I left.

I still dont know what your referring to though.

"[7:25:46 PM] Dan Hughes - eMunie: They can complain, the complainers are the ones that will get us into trouble selling children"


My problem was not with whether child slavery is an issue. It was with Dan suggesting that the complainers (e.g. me) had nefarious intentions. He basically said that if you have a problem with how he's planned things, then you are obviously a criminal wanting to use the system for nasty things.

It's a cheap way of discrediting your critics.

I hope you can see the difference.

No, he didn't say that. He said that the people who complain that the tiny part of the exchange is centralized, so they cannot create a product group of their liking, will be the people that want to use the exchange for illegal trades. The discussion was centered around the exchange, and believe it or not, not around you.

Yeah, I've been wondering this myself - how exactly did Peachy rocket to the top? I thought it was first come, first serve?

Founders leave, founders vote on new founders. its all voted on.

How do you come to that idea?

My point is that there are other reasons for not wanting the exchange centralised. The emunie people (Dan included) apparently like to pretend there is only ever one reason, and its a bad one. This has been shown again and again.

I didn't think it was about me. I think it's relevant to me. You speak with a forked tongue.

http://forum.emunie.com/index.php?/topic/130-how-to-join-the-beta/#entry2335 (http://forum.emunie.com/index.php?/topic/130-how-to-join-the-beta/#entry2335)

This is for beta test, not founders.

Wow.  You guys!

What the fuck did I ever do you that personally effected your life in a negative manner?  Yet you seem intend on attempting to create issues for me at an almost personal level.

You both left, I had no ill feeling against you for that choice, as that choice is yours and yours alone and I respected it, didn't slander either of your publicly OR privately and/or try to tarnish your "good name".  My only real gripe was being disappointed that your specific concerns at the time weren't raised direct, instead of just leaving the group.

So what gives?  I'd love to see how you boys act when someone really does some nasty shit across you, because if this is the level of shit storm created for me...wow, it'd be EPIC!

This isn't personal at all except when you start misrepresenting me and lying about my reasons for leaving.

I'm merely presenting evidence which I think is relevant to any future investors in emunie. Why? because I feel after promoting emunie, I owe it to investors who may have listened to me to present the truth. I presented what I felt was the truth when I was a moderator, and now I continue to do so. I'm sorry if this hurts you as this isn't my intention.


All this started because of your refusal to allow certain facts to come out on your forum. If you were more open and honest there would never have been an issue.


You were quite happy to stand aside while your business partner and others accused us of fakery and cowardice, but when I tried to show his duplicity, you banned me from the forum.

So basically you are saying to stand back and allow unlimited free speech for some, yet jump in dictate what is and isn't allowed at other times.....

Ok, bit of a contradiction there.

Not at all. there's a huge gap between these two extremes and you chose to do nothing on the one hand and reacted with full force on the other.

You could have said something either to Visin or in the chatbox to quash the lies being spread but you didn't. It is your responsibility to do so in my opinion.

What you did do, was make it even worse by pretending you knew nothing about our reasons. So actually, you joined in the shit flinging.

Did we deserve this after giving you hundreds of hours of our time for free?

eid sorry but as a potential investor i couldn't care less if developers insulted you. noone cares about your insult exchanges unless they are pertinent to the product.
and all you posted so far is just an attack on Dan as a person (cos he offended you)....but frankly why should I care. i'm sure in many other developers team ppl fall out and say nasty things to each other. it's life.
all i care is the technology. can it do what it says on the tin? does it work properly? that's all that matters....we'll see it in the beta.
saying emunie sucks  cos the developer insulted you unfairly is laughable (btw with the way you act you seem like a spiteful dumbass )
personal attacks or insults  have nothing to do with code.
i only trust maths...that's what bitcoin technology is all about.
even if Dan was total nazi who insults his developers friends all day...if he comes up with a product that works that's all i care about.

Its just an opinion of mine but if a coin doesn't have a mobile wallet for users to show start others on the coin while on the go then it will be a flop/scam.  Apps are the most important aspect to any coin and it is clear by using btc mobile apps versus all the others why the value is in btc

bitcoin didn't have a mobile wallet from the start....it took years infact to have a bitcoin android wallet.
same as all coins....they usually start with pc client...then development for mobile wallet come after.

I think my posts make it clear that this isn’t a personal attack, but that Dan's worthiness of trust is extremely relevant. I'm sorry you can't see this and felt the need to descend to personal attacks against me. You obviously have an emotional attachment to Dan or the project.

You say you only trust in maths. Fine. Show me the maths that you're trusting in.
I'm not aware of Dan ever insulting me by the way.

My trust called into question.......yet everyone trusts anonymous developers  ??? ::)

The BTC mobile wallet is just a centralized version of Bitcoin. You don't have the blockchain on your phone. With eMunie a true mobile, decentralized app will be possible, with the complete blocktree, as it will be always possible to synchronize in seconds or minutes.
 

Your project is built on trust.

the only one who is showing emotional behavior is you. somone who pimped emunie for an year and then after a spat spams everywhere reporting behind the scenes bickering.
and btw you told us emunie was the best thing since sliced bread for an year...and now you tell us it sucks cos Dan discredited you after you left. hm....who is untrustworthy? if emunie sucks now...surely it sucked even more before when the technology/client was even more rough and bugged,

i have no relationship with dan of any kind nor any role in emunie whatsoever. I love technology , i love crypto. emunie brings something new to the table (which is rare these days)and love the economic inflationary/scalable model (in theory) which imo would make it much better than bitcoin as currency. and looking forward to see if the beta delivers.that is all that matters

i couldn't give a shit about dan and who he is. like i don't care who satoshi, sunny king or bcnext are ...or if they ever upset someone in their life or if they ever said a lie or if they ever banned someone or deleted someones post (btw the mdoerator on the forum is vrisin....and i agree he sucks as a moderator and doesn't have social skills...but....doesn't affect my view of emunie)
i care just about the product. as someone who has worked in many teams before I know how words get twisted and how personal relationship can fall apart...but at the end of the day the only thing that matters is being able to put out a good product.
if Dan achieves in putting out a good product then i can say he did well....instead if the product sucks bye bye.

all i seen from you is judgements on the way Dan runs his business....but how he runs his business is his business. i judge the cryptocurrency as a cryptocurrency (however that came to life....whether from an happy house or from a total war is irrelevant).

btw the only thing i'm not too happy about is the legal entitity....just like Ripple has.....but it was inevitable imo developing something like that in the UK and with a real identity.

Ethereum is not a scam, per se, BUT the founders and investors are pre-mining over a third of the coins.  ...so... take that as you will.  The other issue with it (this is my personal opinion) is that it's too deflationary since they are burning tx fees and feeding them back PoS style.  They are also a bit coy about some of the inflationary/deflationary behaviors to placate potential investors, which makes me nervous.  Oh, and they wanted 30K BTC as day-one funding.

There are some good tech aspects of it though...  The scripting language they're adding is awesome, and they are implementing the GHOST protocol (Greedy Heaviest-Observed Sub-Tree) which offers 1-min block times at the security of Bitcoin's 10-min block time.

Firstly, Ive only known about emunie since November, not a year. Yes, Ive defended emunie in the past against unwarranted accusations and I stand behind that. I've also promoted emunie in the past. This has been discussed already above. Yes, it took me three months to get a full understanding of the project and I left at that time.

Secondly this is not because of a "spat" as you'd know if you bothered to read.

You say Dans business is his own affair, but when a project relies almost completely on trust, it becomes the business of the investors too.

If you'd bothered to read the whole thread then you'd know this, but I suggest you read this thread which illustrates the points I'm making:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=439045.0

There were a lot of things inevitable in this project (including the Ltd company) because of the way it was done. Which tells me it was faulty from the ground up. I've said this already.


I accused you of having an emotional attachment to emunie because you have come into the debate without bothering to read my real reasons for leaving and attacked me for things I never said (like them).

For your information, when I withdrew my investment and resigned as moderator, I was on very good terms with Dan and the others.

Eid ,if the technology works as intended that is maths enough in my book.
but now I know you was not even a developer, nor anyone with any competence or skill....but just some deadwood trying to jump on a coin.....then i'm glad you're chopped off.
you're worthless to me (as potential investor i'd be more concerned if a developer left.) good riddance.
and again your link posts to yet more bickering.....after you left Dan discredited you in chat ok (he discredited all those who left in general)...obviously he was upset that some of his crew deserted him....and virsin deleted one of your posts cos you dared to attack him for having insulted billo...it is all pointless bickering in my eyes. schoolground fighting.
btw virsin should not be forum moderator cos his social skills are questionable...he's too blunt...loses his temper too quickly etc..I think dan should replace him in tht role. .but all this is no biggie to call a technology product a scam or not. (when I worked for adobe everyone there was a total piece of shit let me tell you and the backstabbing and unetical behaviour was unreal...but yet they still release good products which are not scam)

When people say things against emunie it is FUD, but when statements like the one above is made it isn't considered FUD. Sharky have you seen this mobile app?  Have you used this mobile app? How is it possible to synchronize in seconds?  Have you tested this?  Seen it in action?

The question about "what if the exchange doesn't work then what?" is still unanswered.  Will emunie still have price stability?  Since this is a big selling point of emunie I feel this question needs to be answered.

You've come into this thread at the end, read a couple of posts about the others and I being insulted, and decided that's what the issue is. I've tried to show you (by directing you to another thread) what the actual issue is, but you've gone there with this preconception in your mind and read only what agreed with it.

The issue is trust. Nothing more. If you don't feel trust is relevant to this situation, say so. If you feel it is relevant but that there's been no evidence to call it into question, say so.

Your opinion of me is irrelevant to the discussion, and you're doing the very thing which you accuse me of. Not everyone in a project has to be a developer. Others have value too. Don't be so fucking elitist.

Sociopathic and NSA-like? Man of no principles?

If Emunie ascends to heaven and carries the founders along with it, I'm sure you'll think everything you've done is worth it. However, have you considered what if it fails to various degrees? How will you look back on what you're doing and the replies you've written a year or two later? Have you also considered what others would think when they see your attacks on some former colleagues and friends?  By that I mean what people actually think of your attacks, not what they say in chat.

Ripple competitor!

Yeah there scam-coins, now fuck off.

Re: Etherum

 LOL, $35,000,000.00 dollars, for merely "developing this". What a Goldman Type RIPOFF.

 Yea, they promise to fullfill their work, but only AFTER their paid in full up front. What a load
of shit. A total ripoff.



 For these, and all other scammers. This is merely the beginning. We're going to ruin all of you
until your fully ruined.

 Your attempting to fleece and ripoff a ton, from unsuspecting people.

 We wont stand for it.

 Do the world a favor, and jump off a tall cliff. Your merely worthless human parasites.

 GET LOST.

 Your not even in the same Decentralized universe, and your giant ripoff is now exposed.

 And as for that personalized threat: Blow-back is a real bitch!


Caveat emptor - let the buyer beware!

you seem to forget...but I remember very well.... almost all that had an account in the forum were founders.

I am sure there are investors from before the very begining and bought the founders badge.

Do you remember the founders you never saw for betatesting but they had the badge... these were the first investors in emunie, they have paid dan.

you are the biggest douch I have ever seen.

nothing is voted in emunie Dan decides.

If dan says jump you ask "how high boss" yes boss, cos that is what his followers call him.


edit: and still that awfull lies in your signature: "eMunie - decentralized, cryptographic currency."  :D

this is how mister cory thinks about people that worked day and night for emunie:

[8:00:22 PM] Cory Stevenson[visin] - eMunie: remember these same crackpots think the world should see their glorious views
[8:00:25 PM] Cobra: an activist group will only encourage FUD
[8:00:41 PM] Dan Hughes - eMunie: yes, but this is OUR house, so its OUR rules so long as the majority of founders agree
[8:00:52 PM] Thomas Reimann: yeah, but make an extra forum part for activists
[8:00:59 PM] Dan Hughes - eMunie: if its on BTT they are then just another emunie troll in the eyes of everyone else
[8:00:59 PM] Thomas Reimann: so the fud is HIDDEN FROM PUBLIC
[8:01:21 PM] Cory Stevenson[visin] - eMunie: lol i dont know if they will willingly go to the corner and piss
[8:01:24 PM] Cobra: I think in general that would just do more harm than good
[8:01:41 PM] Cory Stevenson[visin] - eMunie: *Please take your shit, and put it here*

Just on the side-note. Never called him "boss" and never paid a single pence or satoshi to him but I still have the founder badge.
...and yes, I've voted on the new founders and it was a proper voting.

Well I am a beta tester, and I do sometimes call Dan "boss", but in a fun way, and never felt i had to or anything.

Jeez, what boring topics we are on to by now. Quibbling and gossiping about terminology like if Dan (or Visin) is a more of a friend or boss or dictator, if we are beta testers or followers. Who pissed who off, who insulted who or their mother, and how that affected their platonic relationship. If I want that shit I can consult my local tabloid, it is of no interest to potential investors. Let's get back to the interesting stuff, shall we?! <irony> Like how this is all a scam and there is no working client, or how Dan is giving a false identity and address, etc. </irony>

Haha you guys compliment me so much. You all must have a lot invested into bitcoin to make up reasons that don't matter.

Also, please note, I think that most of BTT are tools.

Please continue, you aren't doing any harm ;)

Emule, for the record... you prove my point on why we should ditch the bad founders and bring in the good ones. Things work a lot better now with the trash removed.

lol. I've been called worse by better


Yet here you are gladly taking these people's money.

I must say quite openly that this is definitely not helping the conversation along either. Your point may or may not be correct, I am not judging, but the black-and-white stereotyping and insulting is only throwing oil in the fire. Unless that is the point of course. In either case I am disappointed.

finnaly got your attention.

I was sending 3 emails to pay back my investement of 2 BTC.

it is more than 5 weeks now.

isnt it time to pay back my money instead of wondering arround on BTT to look for deffensless victims...

PAY BACK!

and now that BTC price dropped how you going to handle this

We don't require your BTC, believe me, we have enough already. Investing is a privilege, so consider your investments wisely.
If you don't want to invest in eMunie, then please do not do so, as its very annoying having to process the request just to turn around and send it back, but we are more than happy to refund your BTC.

HOWEVER, I will need to know your email address or something because I don't see a single request for a return. If we have overlooked it, I am sorry.

Do you know that the average American throws away 1200 pounds of trash each year?

Billo and I come in just under 500 pounds so you will need to ditch some more trash to make your quota.

Oh, there is a lot more than 1200 lbs of trash being thrown out but then again I am not the average American though, am I?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAU0l7325w0

Interesting the community has consistently been 50/50 on Emunie and 60% of the community consistently thinks Ethereum is a scam. 

Those anonymous developers released the source code.
Those anonymous developers didn't sold their coins before the release. And surely not an 300BTC amount and than clearly state they would take a big cut from it for personal gains.
Those anonymous developers didn't had a track record of being involved in shady businesses.
...

1.  It was already open source, cut and paste changing a few variables doesn't count
2.  No, they insta/pre mined them instead
3.  I've proved & explained my expertise, past ventures and pretty much everything else.

As I said in the other thread you have been trolling...

http://www.troll.me/images2/grammar-correction-guy/go-home-youre-drunk.jpg

1. Bitcoin was a cut & paste? Peercoin and Primecoin too? I think you're the one who is drunk.
2. Many scamcoins did this indeed, just like you do with yours.
3. Yeah, only honest people at blackhatworld and many people got their account blocked by Paypal for the most stupid things. But a court order, that's a new one...

Oh no, LeoC is back with another fake account. Too bad you don't know much about cryptos, otherwise I would be glad you're back.

lol, I don't even know who LeoC is.
But I probably know more about Crypto than you.  ;)

Etherium: hype, maybe not a scam.  I personally don't see why they need $35m.

Emunie is interesting in some ways.

The emonie developer, however mercurial and paranoid he may be, has recognized that mining in bitcoin is mostly superfluous.  The most valuable work in the network is transaction clearing and validation, and it is this work that should be subsidized with new coins (no more need for transaction fees).  Mining in bitcoin is just a way to pick who gets to create the next block by running a race.  Picking who gets to create the next block can be done in some random way, which is more egalitarian.

Possible cons:

Proprietary, whitepaper and source code withheld.  Can't be properly vetted by the community.

Statement to the effect that emunie "will comply with the law" or attempt to disallow illegal activity.  What this means in practice is hidden back-doors for law enforcement/nsa/etc, blacklisted accounts, and a host of other nightmares (the source is withheld, ouch).

The coins can't appreciate in value (any increase in value causes new coins to to flood into the network).  Appreciation is incentive for early adopters, since early on the coins will have little use.  The fact that users will be granted a stream of coins for just connecting may be alluring at first, but disappointment and abandonment may follow (the first paycheck from that first minimum wage job is nice, then you realize just how long it will take for you to actually earn anything substantial).

Might be overrun by botnets or farms, which could sweep up most of the new coins generated.  Worse, a botnet could send transactions between its nodes to stimulate what appears to be demand.  Most cryptocoins can be abused by botnets, but emunie's network might be stimulated to respond with a coin flood (I'm a bit unsure on this point, maybe not possible/feasible?).

Conclusion:

Some of Emunie's ideas are good ones, but emunie itself is not a candidate for adoption.  It would be nice to see a group of open source developers adapt those ideas into a new altcoin.



 

Finally a constructive post!  I thank you! :)

My statement of trying to stamp out gross illegal activity has been somewhat taken out of context in general.  There will be no backdoor for TPTB, or myself, as it's impossible to do.  What I meant was that if we were to become aware of it (we as in the eMunie community as a whole), we should do everything we can to stop it....this would typically involve good old infiltration of a manual nature, and not "opening up" supposed encrypted data and having a look who it is.   That is impossible by design and we've gone to great efforts to ensure that all parts of the system are secure and anon.

Of course as you rightly state, eMunie will be closed source to general public for some time for reasons I've covered many many times, so other than give you assurances, there isn't much else I can offer in terms of convincing proof.

Another common mistake is assuming that a stable price means no ROI...there are 2 major components in any market, be it currency or commodity, and they are value and supply.  eMunie attempts to steady the value, and moves the supply depending on the demand, this supply is then distributed proportionally to stake holders and hatcher that have performed work.

Assume you have 100 eMu at a value of $100, the market value isn't moving at all, the system isn't even attempted to stabilize it, its naturally stable at this point.  Assume it stays this way for a year....your 100 eMu are still worth $100...0% ROI.   However demand for eMu is high, so the system is creating lots of new eMu to absord the incoming value from fiat, gold or whatever else you decide to use.  Assume that inflation over the year is 100%....you will receive 50 more eMu over that time (its a 50/50 split between hatchers and balance holders).  You now have 150 eMu worth $1 each, 50% ROI.

Finally, demand isn't calculated by transaction volume, as this is both inaccurate and prone to the exact attack you point out.  The P2P exchange drives the demand, though the various buy and sell orders that occur on there, as these are a better indicator of if demand is up, or down at any given moment.

Well, I guess this is the problem many are frustrated about, information that is too vague.  I have stumbled onto emunie only recently, and am astonished by the vitriol surrounding it.

I can understand that in the current cryptocoin climate, a source code release would result in a flurry of pointless clones with minor tweaks.

However, the community at large needs to properly vet the claims being made.  If a whitepaper is released, there are many smart people in the bitcoin community who can help to identify potential vulnerabilities in the system before it may be too late.

If the perception is that your system is proprietary, it may have a negative impact on its adoption.  I suppose a mainstream audience may not care, so perhaps that is the gamble.

Hughes, the main reason why people should NOT invest in your pyramide sceme is that you are a retard.

You already pre-sold 600 BTC on discount price to your "friends"

So get back to your emu corner and go pis there, you don't need BTC trolls.

I think these would be considered wages (income), not ROI.  It is payment for work, not investment.  The interest paid might be considered ROI.  I suppose if the distribution is based on *all* previous work performed, then early adopters could get progressively higher wages (a larger cut of the distributions), but this might be disturbed by a flood of new workers entering the system (assuming they each are paid something for the smaller amount of work they've performed).

Anyway, this is a bit off the cuff.  I'll look into it more.


[edit]
If the coin takes off, the early adopters could potentially get huge payouts as massive minting is stimulated.  Yes, they are wage slaves, but gilded ones like wall street workers with their lavish bonuses.

But new workers would rush in, perhaps diluting subsequent payouts.  Depends on the exact algo used.

Also, bitcoin has long periods of stable price.  emunie won't need to increase supply during these periods, so I'm presuming it will pay nothing, a potential problem.

A very interesting experiment to watch when it goes live.

BTW, if I work for the system for some time, then sell my coins and quit, will my prior work still qualify me for payouts, i.e., can I retire to the south of France with my emunie pension?

Interesting to see after this time most people still think Etherum is a scam and Emunie is still 50/50

dont think so for ethereum. and havent read anything about emunie

Hello.

If you are interested in eMunie check the offical forum at:
http://forum.emunie.com/

Also there is software beta version available for testing at:
http://beta.emunie.com/

Etherum IPO is now live what are your thoughts?

9 months after the poll was started and neither of the coins have launched yet. Has anyone's opinions changed?

I think it's too early to tell, but I am leaning towards no on both. I'm not saying they are a good investment, just that I don't think they are a scam.

Unfortunately, they both are taking forever to launch and pretty much lost the first mover advantage. There are a few coins that have implemented or are planning on implementing Turing complete scripting, and there are a few coins that have a lot of features and a new code base a la eMunie.

They could still be successful but the competition is much harder now than when they announced their projects.

What I don't get is all these IPO's need millions of $ to start up, I mean it's not like there building spaceships or something. If they had real faith in there projects they only need enough to get them going, after that the

wonderful  new tech (that's always almost finished) should guarantee there financial futures. However filling your pockets first seems to be the aim, Then who cares if it takes an unknown time to complete projects. It

seems to be a case of "Take the Kash"

Jon  ;)

Yes, I think for Ethereum people will get what they paid for, a stake in a coin implementing Turing complete scripting. However, if a load of other coins implement Turing complete scripting before Ethereum then maybe Ethereum coins will not be worth anything near what the investors hoped for.

At the risk of sounding arrogant (which it isn't meant to be), we haven't lost any first mover advantage at all for 3 main reasons:

1) We are SO far ahead of the curve in terms of innovation, quality and execution, nothing in the works at the moment comes close.  See our announcement today on Twitter and our forum. (ok maybe this is a little arrogant, sorry :) )

2) Sure some of our initial features have been "copied" and implemented into launched currencies already, this is fine, and inevitable when pushing for excellence.

3) And most important, our target market hasn't even been touched yet......that market is NOT BTT, Crypto fans, geeks, nerds, whatever you wish to call early adopters, its grandpa, blue collar guys, Joe on the street.

Emunie was outed as a scam a ling time ago.

Ether will be a very big deal. Vitalik is genuine and a genius.

The ignorance and general lack of brain cells around here never disappoints.

I must be totally stupid to STILL be putting the finishing touches to this scam after 18 months.  But then for something to be a scam, someone must have lost something, but there is no provable evidence anywhere on the entire web that proves I have performed a scam, nor that someone has lost out.  So I must also be a super genius to pull off a scam where the people I'm scamming don't realize they lost anything after 18 months.

Also, usually when there is a scam at work, the perpetrator of said scam doesn't willingly send back monies received when asked, nor do they continue to do so after losing a large portion of those monies and USE THEIR OWN.

Finally, no scammer in his right mind would continue to defend his position to blind sheep such as yourself that would rather follow and sniff the sheeps arse in front, than stick his head up and look at whats really going on.

You sir are the scammer, you are a scam to humanity, as you are using vital resources that other more adept humans could make better use of.  That is all.

Or how about that long butt fucking list of people screaming bloody fucking murder about how Fuserleer has taken their money? right? RIGHT?

lol, that better?

Yes Bill, thanks for coming up trumps!

Emunie is a tight arsed community where infomation is kept close as to not get the ideas stolen (as has been seen before).

The project is very much still alive and ticking with new and cool stuff - true innovation.

Do we need to mention we just announced BLOCKLESS ledgers?

https://i.imgflip.com/dre5q.jpg

Nice!

I 'm looking forward to see the next client released
I hope it will not be heavy on processor like the last I tested the version 0.94... (something) several month ago.

When will the public beta tests start again?

For those how are sure the Ethereum teams can not keep the promise to start the main net this winter we opened a prediction market on it:

https://www.fairlay.com/predict/registered/new/ethereum-main-net-goes-live-before-spring-2015/

It is a market place where people can bet against each other. If you prediction they won't start the main net we try to find one how is willing to take the other side. Currently we have about 0.8 Bitcoin in open predictions and the likelihood is at 45%. If you think it is more likely you should predict "yes" - otherwise "no".

Will be interesting who wins in the end.

By the way, if there is any interest in a prediction on Emunie (the release date?) - we can do that as well.. It is always interesting to see the difference between having an opinion on something or having an opinion on something AND putting your money where your mouth is.

How much do you think the Etherum ipo affected the price of BTC pre-ipo vs now...   how far under IPO price do you think you will be able to catch dumps if it goes live next year?

Ethereum has just recently launched. Before Ethereum launched it was still leading in scam accusations on the poll I'm wondering how opinions have changed.

neither are exactly scams, but neither are exactly on track.  at least Ethereum has launched on their mainnet, which to be honest is just a live testnet.

Ethereum was rushed in service and now I hear a lot of people crying because of it's not mature enough, no features, no GUI, needs a degree from rocket science, etc. eMunie is still under development as Dan want to make a feature ready, turn key coin, and people complaining because of is still not released :). Pretty funny. Isn't it?

I think it's more about the platforms not delivering what was expected in a reasonable time. Whether it's not released yet or released underdeveloped irritates people just the same. 

That's all a part of the alt scene though. I think devs in both platforms way over estimated what they were really capable of and the communities overestimated even beyond that so I guess everyone shares in the blame some for all the complaining.

I blame NXT for all of this :). The rapid development of NXT in 2014 rendered the then latest eMu versions obsolete, as the economy "module" going to be the big thing in eMU and without that it's comparable to some mid 2014 NXT versions, so it's pointless to release it until the economy part isn't ready. IMO NXT also forced the Eth devs to turn up with something before NXT takes AT form Burst or Qora and makes Eth pretty much redundant.

Well well well, heres a thread from the past when we were popular around here :)

When I announced the project 2+ years ago, I had a concrete set of requirements that I had to achieve before I would even consider releasing.  These are the same now as they were then, and they are as follows (in no particular order as they are all as important as each other)

• Scalability
• Efficiency
• Speed
• Stability
• Extendable
• Ease of use
• Integration
• Security (obviously)

Basically everything that ever other crypto isn't :)

Ambitious goals, and admittedly I grossly under-estimated the amount of time it would take (various unfortunate events during development have also hindered progress somewhat) when considering these were things that no-one has achieved & my relentless strive for perfection.

eMunie was never obsolete, it was simply a case that I was not happy and felt that I could do better.  In all likelihood I have thrown away more code than all developers of crypto-currencies have ever written, yet those discarded codebases and the advancements they provided, any of them would have been very able to stand against Bitcoin and other 2.0 platforms.

For me there is no time limit for this project (and it was a bad choice to ever estimate one), and everyone still involved in the project for quite some time now agrees with that philosophy.  Anyone that didn't was given a refund of any funding they had pledged without prejudice.

This is exactly the reason I haven't held a public IPO, it would feel wrong for me to have done that, when I was still discontent and making major core, design & platform changes.  In a public IPO, many people would have invested on the hype with a FOMO mentality without learning what I was trying to achieve.

Yes we did hold a fund rasier, but it was limited to only people who were beta-testers and actually spent some time with the project and interacted with me, so that they could be sure it was right for them...even then I put a "get out" clause in place for those that changed their mind.  Also at that time, I was not 100% certain I could actually pull off what I was trying to do, hence the controlled environment and a clear understanding with those taking part that I could fail.

Thankfully all that uncertainty is now gone, as I've been able to meet, and even exceed that list of concrete requirements.  I'm finally on the home straight and you'll start to hear a lot about the project again very soon! I can't begin to express how damn good it feels to say that after a what feels like an eternal prison sentence strapped to this desk! :D

I have never heard of Emunie.  But I can tell you one thing for an absolute fact: Ethereum is NOT a scam.

If/when you achieve that all this FUD against eMunie will create a great back story. 

But really your list is pretty amazing, and I agree those are all things that crypto is lacking.  I would maybe even add security to that list. 

There is also no rule that you really have to make it perfect on day one.  It might be okay to launch with only some of those figured out and then work on the rest as you go.

Yeah I guess it will make a good tale for the grandkids one day :)

Well, security is par for the course, otherwise whats the point, but yeah I'll add it for the sake of completeness.

A lot of people have said that, but most of the V1.0 features will be minimal yet have the critical functionality required and locked down....solid foundations if you like, that we can easily build on without having to modify any core design and cause hard forks and all the headaches that come with it.