Bitcoin Forum

As we all know by now, mtgox is in big trouble. They say they will release a new statement on 10th Feb 2014, which most likely would be "we have sent all the stuck bitcoins back, but fiat withdrawals still won't go through".

What if, none of the future btc withdrawals don't work either? And mtgox finally admits to going belly up, like 2 months later?

What would happen when mtgox finally admits that it is in big trouble and can't serve us anymore? Would the bitcoin prices fall sharply AGAIN? Or would the prices hold steady (because its not like all exchanges will shutdown).

What I personally think will happen on Monday is, mtgox will release the "stuck" bitcoins back to the owners, and the respective owners will again try to withdraw all their btc holdings because not a lot of people trust mtgox anymore. And what happens when mtgox again receives thousands of withdrawal requests on monday? The coins get "stuck" again (i.e. if it indeed is a technical issue)!

Do you really think that they can fix a REAL technical issue in just 2 days ? If they were that competent, wouldn't they have fixed the technical glitch a long time ago?

I have some money held up with mtgox, and I really do hope that i do get my coins back, but I like to live in the reality. I know, there is something BIG going on inside mtgox - Either they are keeping the coins for themselves as part of an elaborate ponzi scheme OR they are in big trouble with the authorities and hence, can't release any coins until the authorities let them do so.

Either way, this DOES NOT LOOK GOOD. Like many will agree, its best that mtgox pays us back what they owe us and shuts down for good. Because all these price fluctuations caused by the mtgox uncertainity is making many new small-time investors lose their life savings.

Coindesk Article on Mtgox death :: http://www.coindesk.com/mt-gox-first-bitcoin-exchange-dead/

For the big operation, It usually cannot be fully solved within 2 days, but providing the progression about following up.

Real players do not select mtgox as their primary, they possibly select bitstamp or campbx for fiat withdrawal.

But bitstamp doesn't let people from all around the world withdraw fiat, right? Unlike mtgox did.

There is some speculation that MtGox does not have adequate BTC on hand to cover a significant volume of bitcoin wallet withdrawals.

By halting withdrawals it buys them time to (among other things) either; a.) increase their bitcoin balance, b.) come up with another excuse not to give customers access to their bitcoins, or c.) hope that this 2-day delay will somehow slow the bleeding once they re-enable withdrawals on Monday.  

Hello dear friend.
The MtGox will not die, will be paid all know what I'm saying.
within a few days months we will see the price of bitcoin in new maximums.
what is happening is that the surest is all being paid when the price of BTC enter the house of 500 usd per bitcoin.

when they saw that I was right can donate
Bitcoin
1HqqFQAfC5ph366Egvp3ZYryWDJgxqxJ7c

That is what most of us are worried about.

IF mtgox does declare that it cannot continue operations, does that mean all our money goes down with them? Or would they be professional enough to give us back what they owe us?

It is actually a technical glitch. A serious one, but I don't think they've run out of bitcoins, they've just been forced to stop withdrawals until they fix their software, it was doing withdrawals wrong & some people may have exploited that. They probably lost some bitcoins as a result, hopefully they can afford to replace them.

It's not going to kill bitcoin, there are plenty of other exchanges. If you put your life savings into bitcoin then you're a fool. It's gambling, only bet money you can afford to lose.

I doubt this is going to be the death of bitcoin. It's just a hiccup.

If Gox implodes, which looks very possible, we would get another massive sell off and then stabilize at about $100-$125 less than we are at right now (IMO). I think we will overcome that but it will take some time

If they try hard enough, sure. Of course, it would have to be an actual technical issue, and not "we've been martingaling on PrimeDice and emm, you know guys..." one.

If they are in fact misleading customers, I wouldn't expect them to suddenly "do the right thing".

But if this is in fact a technical glitch, the balances are likely secure.

In other words, they're trying to be a bank! - Only holding a percentage of the actual currency they've been given by their account-holders, then presumably trading it elsewhere for commission.

This is exactly what bitcoin was designed to avoid: central control and exploitation by some self-appointed middlemen. MT Gox could vanish and overnight and a dozen exchanges will spring up to respond to demand for BTC/cash conversion services. BTC cannot be controlled and monopolised by a single entity - it's that way by design.

I've never used MT Gox and never will. They're one of many.

You are obviously being a big troll lately...

You've already said...


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=453230.msg4997987#msg4997987


If you don't actually own any Bitcoins and don't want to be in the f**ked scene, then stop being involved by posting FUD.
Unless you're trying to drive down the price, all your latest posts seem to suggest that.

What's with all the sensationalist posts? *Bitcoin headed towards darkness* give me a break. Bitcoin has gotten through more serious issues (Remember the December China crash?) with no problem. One exchange having technical difficulties is not going to bring down Bitcoin, and I doubt it will cause the "DEATH" of the exchange itself.

OP:  Do you *really* think Bitcoin is as simple, small, and centralized as MtGox ?

Seriously?   This is the basic concept behind Bitcoin.   That no single entity could ever "bring it down".

I would encourage you to do some extensive research on what Bitcoin is.   And decentralized networks.

Gox could completely die, Bitstamp could completely die, and Coinbase could completely die tomorrow.

Bitcoin would not die.

I highly encourage you to listen to this speech on decentralized networks, and why they never die when one "branch" is cut off.

Very important speech. Everyone should listen to it:

https://soundcloud.com/mindtomatter/e39-2-the-starfish-and-the
(skip forward to 11:00)

USD did NOT get vanished when Lehman Brothers & Meryl Lych failed. BTC will be affected but wont be vanished when Mt.Gox wont be anymore. It is written in the code.

 The Mt.Gox is surely causing the price to bounce more than normal. It is giving people who already hold currency the chills and some newbies sccurying to new exchanges to buy up.

FUD.

Wait for what has to happen, to happen. You are posting this across multiple threads as well.

MtGox became a epic joke long time ago and only greed and stupidity forced people to trade there or send any coin/fiat into this black hole.
MtGox has been operating as one big mixer - closed system with no exit for fiat or BTC.

Interesting where did the coin go and if coin is really gone, how did they manage to lose it?

your post seems awfully full of doom and gloom. you could have written in a non-biased way, right?

 Makes sense, hope it doesn't turn out to be a huge ponzi.

gox usually fixes all the issues they've had over the years.. what's your point. this time it's "different" . jeez the fudsters. if it's a technical issue and the coins are still there things will be fixed. quite simple

What FUD? My withdrawal has been stuck with gox for a long time. I am fucking sad here and you think I am trolling? Dude, if you cannot feel others' pains, then don't say anything at all.

And if it really is a technical issue that they can solve, then why did they release an official statement only after so many people started asking them questions on friday?

Why couldn't they just have released a press release a long time ago stating they are facing problems so they would like to stop withdrawals temporarily.

What happens if everything is fine on Monday?
Wait for it. Stop spreading panic. Many people here have funds stuck there.

Benson, I am more panicked than most people here. I have a lot of money stuck with gox and I have also lost a lot already. So, don't think that i am trying to spread panic.

I am only trying to see what people think will happen if gox shuts down. Will the price hold steady like after SR takedown or would it plummet?

Yes FUD.  Suddenly now it's about your coins being stuck...

But you call this thread 'Bitcoin headed to darkness' & one of your last ones 'Is this the end'

Where you posted as much FUD as you could find even though half of it was false or out of date..



YOU ARE THE DEFINITION OF FUD

I don't think it matters much, centralized exchanges will be phased out soon enough anyway with projects like Ethereum, NXT, Mastercoin, and others exactly because of these kinds of issues with central exchanges.

Gox had a good run and will always be noted as the first of its kind, but its time for it to die as it is doing more harm than good anymore to the bitcoin economy.

Call it whatever you want man, Me and a lot of others have our money stuck with gox. You won't feel the stress that I am feeling right now if you have no money stuck with gox.

People are flying to Gox's office japan to get their coins man! You just don't get it.

Yes, Old things have to die for new & better things to take its place.

Well mate, Mt Gox is not Bitcoin.
Anyone who had held funds in a 'web' wallet, were well warned.

Nothing, in any of your posts have been as soft as
Most of the posts that you have made today have been all about running down a street screaming that the world is coming to an end cos an acorn fell on your head.

"never invest more than you're willing to loose" that's true for penny stocks, futures... and even more true for unregulated crypto currencies

Yes i guess thats where me and a lot of other people went wrong :(

Btw coindesk published an article about gox death http://www.coindesk.com/mt-gox-first-bitcoin-exchange-dead/

You seem to live off of poorly spun FUD/doom/darkness/"IT's SO BAD" threads.
>>> Do you think your sig sponsor really wants to pay for negative "spin" that is sometimes outright LIES?  (like here at this link (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=453230.0;topicseen))


...and your current piece of "work":


I'm not saying sig sponsors should limit our freedom of speech; I am saying they have the right to not pay for slime like this (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=453230.0;topicseen)

• If you are honest (yeah right), and really this negative, then why don't you take some time off from posting?

Like a year or two.   :D

Gox has been dieing for some time now, what we really need now is one new exchange, and let gox RIP.

d.)  Buy back the bitcoins at a now much lower price.  
Is it really out of the realm of possibilities that before when the price was 15-20% higher then other exchanges that they didn't sell XBT they never actually owned!  Once customers wanted those XBT, they simply stopped paying out and are now actively buying them all back at a 30%+ discount.  Give it some time with gox price much lower then other exchanges and watch how magically the "technical issues" will resolve themselves.

 ::) Yes people like "customers" in mtgox are noobs... very very very noobs to let BTC on a virtual account.
It's stupid (when i have choose a plateform, i have verified that i can retrieve ALWAYS me BTC... after by with fiat transaction).

Bitcoin have invented your own money stored in your own PC.
deal with it if you "trust" a other party to store your BTC ...  :-\

I think it will end up that way. Similarly to how Ultimate Bet turned out for online poker (if you were a part of that)

Great news!   :)


The article that OP FUDster linked to says they have the money and coins:

Roger Ver, who declared last July he had looked at Mt. Gox’s books and determined they were indeed still solvent, said he was still optimistic the exchange would fulfil its obligations.

This was after the USA Gov raped them, Gox still had enough money.*
The problems were dealing with the banking industry and very poor coding.

*Unless "the books were faked"

That was last July. After that they have a $75million lawsuit from Coinlab ($38million in "stuck" withdrawals + btc fees accrued would almost enable them to settle the lawsuit).

It probably will be ugly in the short term for bitcoin prices ,  but as usual bitcoin should eventually rebound.  View it as a great opportunity to buy if prices keep falling  ;)  .  Also a great opportunity for other exchanges to pick up new customers and grow.

Game is over, 

http://www.dodaj.rs/f/32/In/SPAa3Hn/2/sad-bye-emoticon.gif

strange issue/bug
months working good, and now..a "strange and undetermined issue with withdrawls.."...
btc withdrawls process doenst have any mistery..
so
mtx gox is death,out of btc

Read post #40 (above), Gox is not dead yet, just slowly killing itself.

The sad truth.

Lets just hope that this is the last blow that gox will give to the bitcoin comunity

I encourage all to get out of BTC and into fiat now while you can.  


I will gladly serve as the medium to help you facilitate your flee from impending doom...and I'll purchase them at a more-than-generous rate of $150 per BTC.


If that's not compelling enough, please read it back in a 'cash4gold' television announcer voice.  


I'll be awaiting your pm's.

u should get your medicines

Dat sarcasm.

Right over your head tho.'

I think the question is how has Mt Gox even lasted this long?  They lost $5M of customer funds to the US government last year, so they have to be at least $5M short of paying their customers, right?  What happens when they finally get down to that last (missing) $5M?

I think price will fall more on Monday , but anyone who has followed the Bitcoin story over the past year knows it has had many existential crises.
But each time Bitcoin prices have recovered. More than that.

Bitcoin refuses to die because it's not a bubble or a fad. Bitcoin is something new

only those panic forcing price down, there is no real fundament, because

 - MTGox is no longer main exchange, they'v held about 20-25% world volume trade before this halt
 - if people on MTgox or elsewhere arer freneticly selling, who is buying? You can only sell if someone buy!!!

so let me gues, this has only technical backround, but histeria all around mostly supported by hype that MTGox is over brougth more than has been expected

MTGOx is not author of BitCoin, there is another 80% of market out there to cover trades with BTC
wake up, world has been changed already, just take a look

check out price, maybe it is time to invest for long run

And, now, the only poker I can play is SWC.

Sounds like Mt. Gox is trying to manipulate the market so they can Buy/Sell BTC for $500 or under. If BTC was regulated that would be a crime. But it's not since BTC is not regulated. But anyone who uses them as there primary BTC exchange is stupid. Coinbase or bitstamp are legit and I always thought Mt. Gox trading at about $100 more then other exchanges was a red flag. Fells like a huge pyramid scam.     

Well said.

It's the people in the other exchanges buying. What you see from gox is the highest bid price that has not been canceled yet. 

Magic The Gathering means they can do whatever they want with your money because magic    

seriously

they honestly think that just cause you don't understand their card game, means that they can do whatever the hell they want

Gox collapse for any reason has a negative effect on price purely out of perception because hype and heavily drive BTC exchange rates.

But their are also supply and demand effects too, when (or if) either half of the Gox books get released they can have significant effects if the quantity is not balanced.

If all the USD on Gox is gone but coins are recovered then it will push exchange rates down, if on the other hand coins are unrecoverable but dollars are recovered then it will actually exert upward pressure.  In both cases the recipients of previously Gox-blocked funds are assumed to move them onto other exchanges and even if they do not 'buy' the simple reality is that exchange rates tend towards the bid-sum ask-sum difference so the addition of more funds to one side of the bid or the ask tends to move price even without significant trading volume, people instinctively move all their bids and asks to respond to depths.

Now in all likelihood their will be only partial recover of both BTC and USD on Gox, as it is very hard to imagine that Gox in it's monumental incompetency contained what ever 'contagion' to only one pool.  I don't need to know if the 'contagion' is embezzlement, gambling with house money, or a federal seizure/freeze, all of these scenario's would have spilled over to the other half of the book by now.  The question is what kind of RATIO of ultimate recover will people get.  Right now it looks like the market is betting on a higher recover of USD then BTC.  If this were the case then it would have a downward effect on exchange rates, which matches the general downtrend right now.

Didn't anyone else think that that Roger Ver video was 100% proof that everything coming out of MtGox is SCRIPTED!?!?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP1YsMlrfF0

looks like gox are trying to prevent historys first crypto bank run, quite ironic given that just under a year ago bitcoin rose to fame on the threat of fiat bank runs in cyprus, the more things change the more they stay the same, fingers crossed everyone can get their savings out

Hopefully everyone can get their coins back. Sadly the price is media driven, and with bad news, going down.

People's perception is probably that if MTGOX is insolvent then going after them with an attorney will likely net them better results if the funds were denominated in USD than BTC.

A single tear rolls down my cheek for the 19% of the USD market that still traded on mtgox for some reason.  I'm guessing the mtgox problem is only affecting newbs?

Ha! We can hope, but it is probably not the case.

if Gox crashed the Fascist US Government sold all the bitcoins then that would be funny I think it would be a good test and I hope and think bitcoin would survive and show the freedom hating American central private bank we can ignore you priks.

I hope bitcoin crashes and Feds sell ever last one and we see <<< $100 bitcoin maybe single digits that would be awesome!

Well I'm dreaming but whatever!

I would mind a big crash myself either, would buy up as much as I can.

dont forget, mtGox is just a "bank" and we are only experiencing a "bank robbery" it is not the end of bitcoin, far from it!

Countdown is begun,

Tokio/Japan GMT, 23:45
Peking/China  GMT, 22:45

cool pen.  ;)

http://imageshack.com/a/img541/6125/gofd.jpg

Just logged in to say that daserpent1 is an A-class retard

If you understand the last 5000 years of civilisation (in a round about way) you will fight for Bitcoin & t. decentralisation of old powers.

It does seem strange that MtGox would stall a one of the highest trading days..
The governments are backed by "billions in dollars".. Of course the governments are trying to shut down "bitcoins"..  Over all though.. United states did the same thing on creating "Dollars" away from british currency 200 years ago..    Humerous that they claim fraud/negative things for something USA already did themselves..

Digital currency IS the future.. 

Many of our members moved their Bitcoins out as soon as they could and we were happy to *note that we recieved several smaller bitcoin investments for BitcoinREO auction home real estate purchases..

http://Http://BitREO.com - USA's only true #1 BitcoinREO Investing.

Our Bitcoins are secured and backed by Real Rstate Investments, so, our bitcoins ROI remain strong at +22.3% returns monthly..

We added a new MtGOX ticker watch for our investors/members on our site for ease of watch..

http://Http://BitREO.com/ticker.html

Hopefully most "Bitcoiners" will see better days with "Bitcoin" trading..
But, we luv our Bitcoin REO buying.. 
Slower, but 1000% safer as our Bitcoins return ROI on sales and Bitcoin Monthly Rental Income...
If Bitcoins fall on MtGOX..  Our Real Estate Investments are secured..

Our Team - BitcoinREO & PajamaREO

Countdown is begun,

Tokio/Japan GMT, 10 Feb 2014 1:00
Peking/China  GMT, 10 feb 2014 00:00

Where do they say they will fix the issue in two days? They've just said they'll give a public statement then. They have two days ascertain what has happened, decide what to do about it and how long it will take, and then draft a statement explaining this.

At the moment I tend to believe it's the technical issue described in the other thread. That is, they'd been issuing slightly invalid transactions, that were rejected by the network but that other nodes were cleaning up and re-issuing as valid but with different hashes. This meant the transactions were getting into the block-chain but MtGox didn't recognise them. This led to them double-spending the same coins, leading to more failures. It's going to take a while to sort out. They need to figure out which transactions they thought had failed, actually succeeded, and which genuinely failed due to double-spending, and they need to relate that to their internal accounts. It should be possible, though, and when they manage it, everyone should end up with the coins they own.

Hmm well, if all of the bitcoins got stuck elasticity and demand would say the price will go up because there will be less bitcoin available on the market.  However if people start panic selling then the price will continue to drop because i think the flood of panic bitcoin will keep pushing it down.  But I guess we will have to wait and see.  I do not have any BTC so if it bombs I am going to be buying because I have faith that no matter what happens; BTC is here to stay and the price will recover over time. All I can suggest is stay calm, watch the markets and think long term not sort term gains.  It is your BTC at the end of the day so do what you think is best. If the Fed did buy lots of BTC in an attempt to debase the currency as some economists have said is possible; depending on what happens at MT.Gox they may well carry out that evil plan of flooding an already panicked marketplace and debasing the currency even further.  I am going to watch this very closely and I reiterate if it bombs I am buying.

OMG, hahahahahah thanks for making me laugh!

But its a bankrobbery that resulted in MANY MANY MANY bitcoins untouchable..

untouchable by us, not by Gox ;) or rather :(

Gox died about a year ago, ever since they collapsed under their own popularity and the shitty php trading engine couldn't handle concurrent trades > 5.
Decentralization of exchanges in Europe, Canada and Asia has rendered the market immune to Goxxing it doesn't matter if they disappear or continue to fuck up their own business into the dustbin of history it shouldn't have an effect on what happens over at Bitstamp, Localbitcoins, IRC, BTC-E and the dozens of other exchange sites. It would be best if they would finally die so the media can stop pointing to them as an example of complete incompetence which continually dirties Bitcoin's image :P

btw, aside polemics, FUD, whatever. I don't get two things:

1- btc value on mtgox is dropped a lot and currently is lower than Btc-e/bitstamp/whichever other exchange I guess.
 This can allow inverse arbitrage giving to gox the possibility to get liquidity buying bitcoins. So, is still possible to withdraw btc on MtGox?
  If this drop was in some way a "led fall", maybe just something willed, well considered, it would mean mtgox heads aren't so dumb. They concretely 
   did something able to stop and incredibly invert the sick spread they had.

2- Today is 10th February and in Japan now is about 16:00 UTC. So what are they waiting for to release the promised update? 23:59 in the night?
 A serious Company would've given news in the early morning IMO.
 This makes me think that goxers are still taking time. They didn't get to the head of a formal solution yet.

What do you think?

Is anybody opening new accounts with them?

Long term they will suffer regardless of what they do.

What will happen to those whose money is stuck in Gox accounts?

No problem with MTX

LOL, the price on BTC-e 102 usd 

Check,
http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/641/7070778456.png (http://easycaptures.com/7070778456)View Screen Capture (http://easycaptures.com/7070778456)

mt gox closing down would be the best for btc.
I laugh in the face of the fools that helped hold up that gox-monopoly for so long with their btc.
You have to learn the hard way that a decentralized token traded in a centralized manner like on gox is just idiotic and you deserve to get robbed and spied on.

"i trade at gox because everybody else does" is the kind of mental lazyness that got you in your trouble
... it's the same with those pools.

Recently released MtGox´s statement at https://www.mtgox.com/press_release_20140210.html is largest pile of BS FUD I ever saw - does anybody actually believe them? No reference to anyone from BitCoin devs, no proof of anything, just bullcrap. They picked up (or made up, whatever) minor, hardly achievable and easilly trackable flaw and build a story around it, which in the end sounds to me like arguing that someone with time machine can pause time and rob Your pockets meanwhile.. They fucked up badly with their amateurish coding sklills, thats all. And the most horrible about theese sick fucks is that they are trying to drag whole cryptoscene to hell with them, as they know this is theirs end:


Pricks..

The Bitcoin devs have already come out to say Gox is full of it, and the problem is 100% on their end for not fixing a gaping hole in their infrastructure that has been known for years.

No matter, the damage is already done, as soon as people can get their coins out (if ever), the exchange will be deserted.

I guess they are crawling back to under that rock they like so much.

Bitcoin Exchanges Under ‘Massive and Concerted Attack (http://www.coindesk.com/massive-concerted-attack-launched-bitcoin-exchanges/)
Looks like IT IS a problem.