Bitcoin Forum

The average consumer is not going to partake in bitcoin when transactions can take hours or even days (currently waiting 3+ hours to move money between accounts). Bitcoin is a fad and will never be a real currency due to the massive draw backs that are built into the currency itself and can not be counted. One of the reasons to use Bitcoin was due to the low fees. The fees will continue to raise as mining cost increase and people have to pay higher and higher fees just to get their bitcoin moved to a new location.

You will never be able to walk into a shop and just pay for an item. You will have to wait untill the transaction is confirmed which is currently taking hours and will eventually take days/weeks.

Bitcoin will fail once a better digital currency is introduced.

This thread is a joke.

Go try out Visa, Mastercard, etc... I'm sure you'll love the 3-5 business day "confirmation times" and extra fees as an added bonus.

and besides, if Bitcoin doesn't succeed, another cryptocurrency will with shorter required confirmations. now go back to your troll hole.

OP is a one percenter trying to keep us all in the 99%.

Wow, are you living in fantasy world OP? Your arguments sound stupid i'm sorry..

I agree another Crypto currency may take over but if it has the same limitations as bitcoin it will also not succeed. Lets be realistic. I can make a transaction with Visa in an instant with next to no fee. I am currently waiting for a transfer between wallets that has taken over 4 hours and now has a double spend error attached to it. I am semi computer literate and can not imagine why an everyday person would take the risk besides hoping to make some money off the roller coaster that is Bitcoin. Bitcoin is around for no other reason then bitcoins sake. You can call me what you like but I will assure you 100% that Bitcoin will never become mainstream in its current state.

I have done transactions before and the time frame is problematic. You are wrong! Bitcoin in its current state will be used for nothing more then selling and trading with its self.

PS. bring it on mother fuckers. If you can not see the limitations with Bitcoin you are a dumb ass bitch.

OP has fell into a small muddy hole and is now complaining that the whole world is made of mud.

So you come here to tell us this when all you really had to do was not give a single fuck. I think this post should not be about Bitcoin but rather, about you.

What's up buddy? Is life really that shit for you atm?

Op is a joker?

BTC is a serious business for many people, sites like wordpress.com, namecheap, are accepting bicoin.
Transaction delay can be solved with software update.
If i want to withdraw money from paypal i have to wait 4 days to reach my bank account.
But with BTC within one day i will receive through localbitcoins.com.

It's catching on in high-inflation countries like Argentina.

Look back at Visa/Mastercard and so on. Remember the days when it was all swipes with paper records, sent to processing centres and typed in by people? As acceptance spread and the tech got better, the service got better. Now we've reached the "instant cash" point where everyone uses cards instead of paper money. And it's headed towards not even having cards.

Bitcoin's new. Of course it's got problems. But the desire to have a worldwide currency that isn't based on gold reserves or held by some fat cat in a bank who could decide to lose it all for you is very strong... give it time and it'll get better and faster. The wider it's accepted, the quicker that will happen.

wow what a dumb fuck

Obvious troll is obvious :D Where's that newbie section?

WTF? There are already shops you can go into and buy things instantly with bitcoins. Shops don't need confirmations except, perhaps, for very large transactions. If they can see that you've paid the correct amount to the correct address, plus a nominal network fee, 0 confirmations is just fine.

As point of service tech develops, the experience will become faster and seemless.

Bitcoin TX fees are and will always be much, much lower than the fees paid today every time you use VISA, Mastercard, etc (you do know that merchants pay the 2-3% fee for you, right?).

I predict merchants that accept bitcoins will simply offer a discount for those paying in bitcoins. 1% for now (because they will likely use a payment processor like BitPay) and 2-3% once the market is mature and merchants can hold/use their bitcoins and/or properly hedge their exposures.

Please bring the n00b jail back. >:(

With technology everything changes, look at mobile phones, tablets, cars, etc.

For example 15 years ago people use a slow modem to access the internet and right now almost all people use dsl and high speed mobile phones.

If companies are really interested in bitcoin they will build some amazing technology and everything you see right now will be very different, you will be able to transfer bitcoins instantly without issues and more.

The big issue I see with bitcoin is that governments don't like it, that is slowing everything and in the future maybe they will build a new digital currency with more advantages than bitcoin or build better tech with that coin.

Pay the OP dumbfuck no mind.

Some people have no imagination for anything different than what they are already familiar with. Some people are scared of change of course too. Some old style activity should fear Bitcoin.

Also, a lot of people only consider Bitcoin as some form of currency or electronic gold but I suspect its real depth, will be in its ability to enable trade. Bitcoin2.0 MSC; PTS; XCP; NXT; NEM all very exciting.

Progress is Good.

Fucking idiots will never get it no matter how you explain it to them.  Don't bother trying.

Weak troll.....very weak.

My bank takes 5 working days to 'process' a cheque, yet bitcoin transactions are usually processed within an hour or two.

Ladies and Gentleman, WorldCoin is the solution. The transaction is fully confirmed in 60 seconds (sometimes even in 30 seconds).
People have not noticed the coin yet though....  ;)
Everybody screams "BITCOIN BITCOIN" and WorldCoin is forgotten pearl.

Bitcoin is instantaneous. You send your bitcoins with a transaction fee and it flies through the network instantly.

You confuse transactions with confirmations.

Every 10 minutes the transactions are collected and added to the blockchain via mining. To reach the mathematical impossibility of a double spend most people suggest you wait 6 confirmations for full satisfaction that the transaction cannot be charged back.

When you swipe your credit card, you have to wait 18 months for full satisfaction that the transaction cannot be charged back.

Transaction-
Bitcoin: instant
Credit card: instant

No charge back-
Bitcoin: 1 hour
Credit card: 18 months

FU OP

So slow! FlashCoin (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=222450.0) confirms in SIX SECONDS! So fast, this is CLEARLY the future. The forgotten pearl!

This is quite fast but I don't think it matters whether the confirmations have been done within 30-60 seconds or 6 seconds.
This 30-60 seconds is just enough (it is around the same time it takes to pay with credit card in the most cases).

However, we all agree BitCoin is far too slow nowdays.
It is not a currency for the future but more like a currency for present time. WorldCoin has enough technical features to replace BitCoin.
However how many knows WorldCoin? It is pretty small number - there is hardly anybody speaking about it.

I have recently asked some questions which was the biggest concern for me with Bitcoin and it seems that Bitcoin can't be destoryed and will only be sucessful in the long run.

But my concern for BitCoin is that if the run is too long and will the more advanced altcoins replace Bitcoin.... Like today, I have been waiting for the transaction to be confirmed for several hours already - still 0 confirmations.

I guarantee you even fewer people know about FlashCoin, so it is truly capable of replacing Bitcoin.

Tx id ? seems you doing something wrong, like too low fee.

Not Bitcoin, MtGox is. Please read:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=468765.0

Bitcoin is not a joke your fiat money is a joke and it's sad that you embrace it OP. Bitcoin might die but something new or even bitcoion improved will live and give us hope for freedom fiat will not and is not just a joke OP but an evil joke on all the people.

The strength of BitCoin is it is quite known crypto and it has already succeed. However, the coin is far too slow.
We need to consider faster alternatives (WorldCoin). WorldCoin has already good name - sounds global.

Actually Bitcoin is the coolest name for a Crypto ever. Worldcoin, Flashcoin, Litecoin, etc. have NOTHING on Bitcoin. You want some Bits? Some Milly Bits? Some Micro Bits? I'll send you a Bit, in a bit. See?

No matter how much you try to explain it to them , but the haters have already made up there mind.

My response to OP

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm81LSKJC2k

there are dozens of other altcoins with quick transaction times... what makes your pump better than another pump? I'd argue that something like Ripple that is trying to advertise itself and play fair with the current system stands the best chance. The altcoin that can decentralize the exchange process somehow will do well.  There's still a matter of getting cryptos converted into fiat, which realistically must be possible. Also fraud protection, insurance, and all that fun stuff would be helpful.

People are still not being honest with themselves, what they really want is a good pump so they can 'cash in' from the craze...

All of the "things I will never be able to do with bitcoin" are things I have already done.  ???

I guess this guy learned a lot during the time he made two posts at the forums. What with his big discovery about bitcoins failure and all. Something tells me his foray into "bitcoin investing" has gone awry.  Anyway OP, thanks for the heads up but I am all good.

Very good you better send me a few bits in a bit my good friend.

Honestly I considered BitCoin as the cryptocurrency since these days.
Now the problems are so severe with incredibly slow confirmation. I paid HIGH fee (0.005 BTC) because this transfer was important to me.
I cannot understand why the BitCoin network did not work.
Personally I do not trust in bitcoins anymore.
I support the small, but more advanced coins (especially WDC).
I think the most guys here are so blind - they do not see that BitCoin is today's technology (it is almost like fiat currency).

Honestly, imagine a merchant who is waiting hours and hours to get the funds confirmed even once (despite the fact that sender uses relatively high fee - how much more higher the fee should be than 0.005 BTC to get processed)?

 I'm sure Overstock.com did it's due diligence before excepting it as payment. How many politicians except it as campaign donations? There is also a vast list of retailers who use BTC as an alternate method of payment. Winklevoss twins, wall street investors, Silicon valley CVs, cover of Forbes, article in NY times, mentioned several times on CNBC.  Bitcoin has always been a joke to those who won't take the time to research it. Every person in here worth their weight in salt has a story of how they tried desperately to explain it. Only to be looked at as if they had 2 heads. I've been praising BTC since it was @ $5.

The problems it has been facing currently are so severe for such a mature coin that it is not worth of using anymore. It is ridiculous how long it takes even to get 1 confirmation. Today it took almost 8 hours with me despite I used relatively high fee - 0.005 BTC.

I think BTC has seen its best days. Now it is simply time to move on - the WorldCoin the transaction is fully confirmed in 60 seconds (usually in 30 seconds). This is the time it is necessary for merchants.
In Finland some merchants that used to accept BitCoin has dropped it away because it gave them more headache than income.

what exactly? RFID chips?

Hmm. Mine went through in 2mins. Are you sending from bitcoin-qt?  

Bitcoin and alts as well have many applications and the fact that they are innovative technologies are helping to pave the way forward for more people to come up with ideas of ingenuity and creativity. It is helping to build communities that otherwise would never happen. Bitcoin is just not for transactions it has a much much wider impact on people's lives in general. It has totally transformed mine that I am now working full time at home just promoting Bitcoin and Digital Currency in general. :) Just my 2 bit..

i agree with the OP...... bitcoin is a joke and here is why

1. it can make you happy and improve your outlook on the future
2. once you hear it you get tempted to tell others, to improve their life
3. there are a few things in life that get spread around the world, and everyone hears about no matter what language, which enriches their lives. and one of those is a good joke.

Well I'm glad you took the time out of your day to create an account and make a post full of things that are inaccurate, to a group of people who understand bitcoin.  I hope you accomplished whatever you were hoping to accomplish  :)

I've only ever done one transaction through my iphone blockchain app, (actually purchasing goods, I mean) and that transaction didn't take 2 minutes...it didn't take 1 minute.  It was instant, just like a credit card.  Maybe I got lucky?

Bitcoin is shit, and there are only speculative value, and speculation coming from manufacturer mining hardware.

Bitcoin is shit then why are you here? trying to become rich quick this thread is a joke.

OP assuming you're anything but a troll. Try buying something on overstock or tigerdirect using bitcoin, that will shed some light on your assumptions.

nope

Pls move this to 'Beginners and help', this guy is obviously a newbie in need of some reality checkup.
But thank you for taking time of your life posting about something that is a "joke and will never last".
Time well spent, don't you think?  :-*

There are only 2 winners with Bitcoin:

- Those who mined and stockpiled 1000s of them when they were just bits and had no value
- The manufacturers of ASICs

Bitcoin has become a snob-club for those who are 'inside'.

I for one will not be able to participate - mind you: I don't care much - I will find affordable and much better 2nd and 3rd generation options than Bitcoin.
The 'man on the street' will also never be able to participate.

Bitcoin has already become that 1% against the 99% which it was supposed to eliminate!

You don't see any future where humanity as a whole could benefit from a currency that is not tied to a nation-state? Bitcoin is more than mining and speculating you know.

Fortunately, Bitcoin is also more than bitcointalk.

Can I ask why you are on this forum if you feel you will never be able to participate in Bitcoin?

I agree it's still highly technical, but I have explained it to a number of not-so-technical people and some of them have dabbled. "Never" is a bold assertion based on that.

For the majority of people who would use bitcoin it doesnt matter about any of the technical stuff. All people are going to care about is if it works, how well it works and can they be ripped off. Bitcoin in its current form is a pain in the ass. Everything about it is worse then standard currency. From the way it fluctuates, its susceptibility to attacks, the amount of time it takes to purchase btc and make purchases. Etc.

Im all for an online currency. But unless btc changes it wont make it as a long term real currency.

"Oh, I tried to explain the technical sidr but people are just to dumb". Most people dont give a shit. They want something that is reliable and fast. Not this. Btc is good for trading with its self but thats about it. Sorry to the blind sheep who think otherwise.

I like being able to trade cryptocurrencies on a trade at my own decision without having to pay a broker 25,000 just so he can maybe make me more.

Sounds like you're a dumb ass who still think "participating" means holding 1000s of bitcoins and become rich.

Or maybe you're just jealous..... LOL at your "participation"

Go buy Dogecoin if you want to hold "thousands"

Meanwhile ppl , who are looking into the bitcoin technology for a change, are happy holding "thousands" mBTC. Do i need to name mBTC something else like millicoins for you to be "participating"?

Retard.

lol why even open your mouth and remove all doubts?

God damn you've not gone far in life do you?

@seriouscoin
'dumb ass' 'Retard' lol - it is exactly such language which ensures that I most definitely will not be interested in Bitcoin. That kind of expressions belong in kindergarten - not between adults in a forum where people should become interested in what you are trying to sell.

No I am not jealous - I am just not interested in Bitcoin because it is missing vital features to be attractive to everyone.
I have other much more interesting currencies on my wishlist. You will know soon enough.
And FYI it is not about 'holding thousands' it is about the price of the BTC - and due to that price those who 'hold thousands' have become the 1%

Do I want to trade the current 1% to a different 1%?

It really doesn't matter to me...

Do I believe that they will become the 1%? No...

If the crypto is future, it won't be the Bitcoin.

That's correct @Ekaros

Bitcoin is THE shit!

I agree.
I am sensing there is a lot of frustration among the bitcoin community towards bitcoin.
The weak signals are showing that WorldCoin is the next big thing.
The smart money flows to WorldCoin before it hits new heights.

WorldCoin, as being later than BTC, has superior features over BTC or even LTC (it takes ONLY 30 seconds to get the first confirmation).
I do not see so much future with BTC - it is probably okay with larger transactions when you have time to waite for 60 minutes (real estates etc) but definetely not for shorter transactions it is not good. WDC is the alternative for people wanting to buy their cup of coffee instantly and not to waite like 10 minutes to get the first confirmation (or even longer).

3-5 buysiness days confirmation times? i want some of the drugs you are taking, friend. when i use my credit card, i get my goods in an INSTANT. doesn't even take a 10th of a second. i really feel sorry for you for having been ripped off with fake credit cards that need 3-5 days confirmation times.

LOL sure all the bitcoin holders are poor people, while the people who can't afford mining hardware or investing in anything are the 1%...sure sure. people are so delusional here...its hilarious.

I agree, btc has no use for real life.
You can perhaps buy lamborghini with BTC because there you usually have more time to waite than you have when you are shopping your everyday shoppings.
WorldCoin gives you the first confirmation in 30 seconds!!!!!! How long it takes to have even the first confirmation with BitCoins?
You guys are out of date.

@Jompee

noone will wait 30 seconds for a coffee if you can get it in 0 seconds.

Today in the most cafes you waite for 30 seconds - it takes some time to hand the dollar bills to the cashier lady.
10 minutes is too much but 30 seconds is acceptable. To me WorldCoin is almost like cash but in digital form. I encourage You to get some.  8)

imagine you have to wait 30 seconds or a minute after you paid your coffee with dollars, to receive your coffee. the coffeeshop would be out of business within a day.

Imagine waiting for 10 minutes or more.  ;D

The beauty of Bitcoin is:

Over the weekend I sent approximately US$6,000 in BitCoin half way round the world.  Fee was approximately .38cents

Forty five minutes, all confirmed and ready to spend.

Try doing that with a bank on a weekend, or any other day of the week.

No bastuards at the bank involved.   

It puts a smile on my dial every time I see BTC fly.

With WorldCoin you transfer the same amount in 1 minute instead of 45 minutes.

Problem is, I am comfortable with BTC.

There are so many other alt coins out there, what do you do, have funds in all of them and see which one loses your dosh for you.

I think it is great there are more alt coins appearing, but how can you understand every one of them? 

I am sure time will tell what evolves as the best.

By 2005 or so, it will become clear that the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine's. --Paul Krugman

I believe OS/2 is destined to be the most important operating system, and possibly program, of all time.--Bill Gates

those statements prove that paul krugman and bill gates are actually very stupid and don't know what they are talking and they know nothing about economy.

yeah right. i feel with you for beeing jealous of bill gates and paul krugman, for understanding economy a trillion times better than you, and them beeing more than a thousand times richer than you. if i was so jealous like you, i would also try to find some ancient statements that don't look very accurate in hindsight, just to make me feel a little better ;)


In all seriousness, Paul Krugman knows more about economy than you ever will, that's why he is regularily featured in the top business media worldwide, and you are not.

Imagine sending 1000$ to some guy via paypal and hearing that he only got $950 because paypal takes their fee. Sending the same with bitcoin network will cost you $1 or even less. When I go out to a restaurant I usually sit there for at least 20min, so who cares if my bitcoin transfer takes 5-10 min, I can wait.

I was directing those foolish statements toward the OP. Guess it wasn't clear enough.

tax evaders also smile when they park their funds on the caymans. exactly the same thing. the only real difference is, they have at least a little bit of shame and aren't boasting about it usually. you kind of disgust me.

sorry, but "transaction is instant" on bitcoin (seller and buy view in real time, the transfer of sum) ... but ON BANK ACCOUNT, A CREDIT CARD transaction take 2 days to see.

not on bitcoin (60min = 3-5 confirmations and sum is already migrate to seller).

I think scarcity of bit coin is its biggest problem. People don't want to spend it, if it was as abundant as doge coin bit coin would have already become the worlds leading currency.

there is no "instant transaction" with bitcoins, it takes at least 10 minutes to confirm. while in fact if you buy something with your credit card, you are paying in an actual INSTANT and INSTANTLY get your product. nice try in turning the world upside down ;)

Well it still depends on what bank do you have. My bank works like if two people have account in same bank group their transaction is instant, like Bitcoin.
Bitcoin's system ofcourse is better, e.g. transactions to other countries.

You are assuming he is subject to taxation, and therefore, an evader of taxes. Maybe OP reports his taxable events, maybe he lives where this type of act isn't subject to taxation. Maybe he knows that government thugs using guns and threats of imprisonment are no less a criminal act than robbery at gunpoint.

tax evading isn't necesarily illegal, you are right. but that doesn't make it any less unethical.

why do you think banks charge so much for money transfers? there might be a reason....a service maybe? i'll give u a little hint: it starts with s and ends with ecurity

Your entire argument is derived from the morality of tax evasion. He never said he avoided taxation when he sent 6k. You made that assumption and you are now arguing from that position. That is called a non sequitur,  a fallacy of logic.

Wrong. A non sequitur is an argument that derives wrong conclusions from a premise. i never made any assumption of him evading taxes or not, try to read carefully. you just assumed i made such assumptions, and now you are argueing from this position. In reality, i claimed that evading money transfer fees is the same as evading taxes. try to understand the difference.

If you really are into logic and rhetorical fallacies, i recommend to go through this list of cognitive biases: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases you might learn something there.

I think I got it... is it security? No wait, it can't be:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/10024209/Bank-of-Cyprus-executes-depositor-bail-in.html

http://techland.time.com/2013/12/19/the-target-credit-card-breach-what-you-should-know/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2554875/Barclays-account-details-sale-gold-27-000-files-leaked.html

not any of those articles had anything to do with what i said, what a waste of time. stop trolling me, jerks.

evading money transfer fees is the same as evading taxes? There is no legal requirement that I'm aware of that all money transfers must go through a bank, etc. So if I give a family member $400 directly without paying a fee instead of using Western Union then I am on equal footing with people who attempt to deceive the government by misrepresentation of their tax obligation?

Overstock now receives money without paying high credit card fees due to their acceptance of BTC. Are they on equal footing with tax evaders?

My confirmations for bitcoin purchases never took 3 days. Maybe you did something wrong.
And plus it doesn't matter how long it last because we gettin $ now idiot.
 8)

So banks stealing people's money has nothing to do with security?

again, tax evasion is not necesarily illegal. so you don't have to deceive the government to evade taxes. you are assuming too much.

Wow, first time I have been called a tax evader.

What does my post have to do with tax evasion?

  

Its morally the same thing. You don't want to pay the fees everyone else is paying to keep the system up. It's selfish and unethical. But of course it's not illegal. Just like speculating on food and making people starve to death isn't illegal. The problem here is you guys confuse legal with ethical.

Thats insane.  He is willing to pay fees (not that it matters), he just paid them to the Bitcoin network because it is faster and they cost less.  That is the open market at work and customers now having MORE CHOICES. 

Why would I want to support a corrupt banking system?

Noticed how many bankers are topping themselves lately, must be something going on.

I don't think our friend has taken his medication today.

exactly how tax evasion works. you just pay less if you park your money somewhere else, so you do it. thats the open market, you are absolutely right.

That's the most batshit crazy statement I've ever read. You should probably step away from the keyboard, you're making yourself look like a real moron.

The pyramid needs to be turned upside down.

You must be one of the 1%.

Have fun when you are at the bottom of the pile.

op has obviously never run a business. op is not aware of the 3% hidden tax on all cc transactions. op,was never around back in the day when they had to make copies of cc and call them in when cards first came out. op has not read nor does he understand the revolutionary idea brought forth nor does he care to.  

op - no one is forcing you to be here. gtfo.

sure, im one of the 1% trying to stop the bitcoin train by promoting socialism. you got it pal. ;)

And Bitcoin is anti-socialism?

that would be a bit far-fetched. bitcoin is just a technology. its just that its use is solely as a currency/commodity for speculation in a capitalist system, and the people profiting most of it are people who are already rich. i wouldn't call it anti-socialism, but its surely not pro-socialism.

Hey dumbass,.... did you know you dont have to buy one bitcoin? LOL you're the reason why company split their stocks..... to attract idiots like you

I cant help but notice this kind of thread always attract great amount of newbies (mostly dumb ones) coming in to talk out of their ass without doing any reading/research of the technology.

Any one with activities <100 should be locked in a beginner section so they can READ and not make idiotic posts like ...." bitcoin takes 10 min for a transaction"

Look everyone, this is a pointless argument.  Some people won't get it until they are left behind in the dust.  However, we do need people like him...just not yet.

I hate to use the "there are two kinds of people" argument, but it is somewhat true in many cases.  Or at least, there are two general mindsets of people, and anyone that falls on either extreme generally seems kinda crazy.

One mindset fears change, and holds on to what they know, or even want to reverse progress.  Lets call this cautious.

One mindset is not satisfied with the status quo, and want to move forward to newer, better (hopefully) ideas.  Lets call this adventurous.

Both sides are necessary for the advancement of humanity. 

The mindset of the cautious helps to keep us from going down the wrong paths as a whole.  If a new "advancement" truly has enough negatives about it, then the cautious side can often sway a large portion of the adventurous to not pursue it too quickly, and over time, if those negatives are realized, they will only impact a small portion of the population that did not listen.

The mindset of the adventurous helps to keep driving us forward, and innovating.  We find new ways to do things, which are not always better, but when we find one that we believe IS better, we try to share it with those that will listen.  We even will attempt to convince the cautious that our new way is better, and if there are enough positives about it, then we will succeed in convincing enough to come over to move bring it mainstream.  At this point, the overly, stubbornly cautious have been left behind, and must try to play catchup, or become bitter and resentful, but at least the majority made it over in time to adjust.

At that point, the cautious who made the switch can begin to root themselves in the new ideas, and create a new status quo security blanket around themselves.  They build, stick to what they now know, and defend it fiercely.  Some who were left behind will often try to pull their comrades backwards, and even have a bit of success sometimes, but not if the idea is strong enough.  The adventurous go back to pushing the boundaries, and trying to find new ways to get ahead, or change things up.  The cycle repeats over and over.

That is how human advancement works, in a really simplified way.  This guy is obviously a troll, or he is one of the stubbornly cautious.  If it is the second, then I feel really bad for him.  His life is going to become very difficult over the next decade or two.  Everything he holds dear is going to be ripped away in the whirlwind of a new software-based technological revolution.  So, be easy on him.   ;D

@seriouscoin
If I'm a 'newbie' is a matter of viewpoint - in your foul world yes I'll prob be a 'newbie' - but fact is that I'm here in this forum to get as much qualified info and knowledge as possible in order to make my decision about which currency I wish to invest in.

It is people like you who make me very reluctant to go into the Bitcoin saga.
People like you are hurting the Bitcoin more than you think. This is a public forum and therefore is being read by many who don't know much about virtual currencies - so when they come in here and see your swearing, insulting and cursing they will just turn around in the doorway and say: No Thanks!

I could show you foras where the discussion is much more qualitative and adult - but I'm not going to - you don't deserve to be there.

My opinion on Bitcoin not being up to the task - like the OP also states - is still standing. And if the devs is not seriously doing something revolutionary about it - it will die.

I am currently involving myself in a rather different currency which definitely will be revolutionary, and could easily spell the doom of Bitcoin - and most other virtual currencies for that matter.

@ DynamicDK
who are you referring to?

Ah ha, nice agenda you get there. Its not like you're the first .... Back when btc break $100 we have tons of ppl like you trying to come here to pump "alternatives".

I might be insulting you but you dont even show any self-respect for that to matter. I'm sure ppl have told you to do your own research b4 making dumb statement or form idiotic opinions, but since you already stated your agenda it clarifies things now doesnt it?

Good luck with your "alternatives" I'm sure you would be holding "thousands" of those coins..... feel better now? (yeah bitcoin is dying.... its fcking too expensive for a coin  ::), nice logic)

Have a look at this and you will get all your answers

ti n yu rl . c o m / c k tv w v s

GTFO!!!! get a life dude !! >:( >:( >:(

The fact that "Bitcoin is A joke and will never last," doesn't have anything to do with something in Bitcoin, the Internet, or the money system. It has to do with the fact that it is the nature of things to NOT last, no matter what they are.

How many people are over 100 years old?
Is the geography of planet earth the same that it was 5000 years ago?
Did Rome fall?
China has always been a group of "States" just like the United States or Europe. Did China ever change?

The point is, there have been many deaths around the world in the last 5 years, since the advent of Bitcoin. Wake up and see that it isn't Bitcoin that won't last - even though it may fail. Rather, it is EVERYTHING that does not last.

Probably, the inherent ability for human beings to procreate is limited time-wise, even though it seems to have lasted a long time. Everything fails. Everything dies.

:)

Anyone who attempts to dismiss bitcoin, or claim that the traditional system is better, simply because of the shortcomings that are currently being experienced in relation to ease of use, understanding of the system, potential for abuse, speed of transactions, or lack of widespread acceptance.

None of these issues are related to bitcoin software, or bitcoin network.  They only exist because the technology needed to handle bitcoin effectively is still in the process of developing, acceptance is still growing, and governments\banks are trying to find any way they can to slow it down.

An idea, or an innovation, does not have to instantly trump its predecessor in every way.  The genius in bitcoin, and the reason so many people are investing themselves completely in it, is not about what bitcoin is today.  It is what bitcoin will be in the near future.  Those of us who have been involved with it long enough, and understand it well enough, can already see what is coming.  It doesn't even have to be bitcoin.  It could be another digital currency with improved features built into the software, but it most likely WILL be bitcoin, because it is going to hit critical mass before any of the new ones are finished \ grow.

Already bitcoin beats the traditional system in terms of security, speed of transactions, and even EASE, if you know what you are doing.  The goal is to help those who do not understand it, and do not care to understand it, still be able to experience the same benefits that we can already experience.  The goal is to help it grow to the point that it is accepted as widely as credit\debit today, so that it's potential can be fully realized.  The goal is to change the world, and make it a better place.  I know that bitcoin, or "bitcoin 2.0", will achieve this.  Or rather, it will give the community that has grown around it the power to do it.

I can see how to achieve many of these goals myself, but I do not have the time or ability to do them alone.  Luckily, many others see ways to achieve the various promises of cryptocurrency (and beyond...) as well, so I do not have to.  I will continue working on my part, and I am quite confident that by this time next year, the world will wake up, and finally understand what bitcoin REALLY means.  The currency \ commodity that everyone likes to focus on is not the most important part (though, it is revolutionary in its own right).  The revolutionary breakthrough that is contained in the blockchain is the important part.

But, one step at a time.  First, the world of banking and finance needs to be conquered.  After that has begun, then the focus can shift to everything else.  Though, Ethereum, and a few other companies, are already beginning to move on to the bigger picture.

It's people like you who have 'pushed' me into looking for other alternatives - you have fully shown that in all your replies to my reflections.
I do hold a few bitcoins - but I'm not going to involve myself in anymore of them- so there.. Your rude writings is clear proof of creating distaste for Bitcoin indeed.

And no - I do not have any agendas here - I am writing my follow-up opinion on the OP - I don't need to have an agenda - I can stand on my own legs without your insults.

Indeed Bitcoin is too expensive - it does not have an incentive to the little guy.

I don't really follow what you mean by that.  If someone wants bitcoin they can get as many or as little as they want.  I just purchased only $5 worth of bitcoin a couple days ago.

Bitcoin also has many different functions and uses , some people may be only looking at bitcoin as a speculative thing or an investment,  while others use it for microtransactions  , or others use it for international remittance, or others use it for online payments or shopping at places that offer discounts for using bitcoin.    If you're using bitcoin to make purchases or to transfer funds around then it's exchange rate value doesn't really mean anything (so long as volatility doesn't end up screwing you over).  

I have some bitcoin holdings I treat as a long term investment. But for the most part I've used bitcoins to send money overseas while working or traveling abroad. In these situations I use bitcoin because the fees are lower and it's typically quicker than if I used a bank or something like western union.  In this situations bitcoin is HELPING the little guy, it allows me to take back control of my own money and send it to family and friends back home or abroad without having to be constantly nickle and dimed by banks or remittance service providers.  So I strongly disagree that bitcoin has "no incentive for the little guy" ,  it all depends on what you are using bitcoin for but certainly bitcoin has many incentives for the "little" guy who just wants to be back in full control of his own money he/she has worked so hard to earn.

yeah - bad expression from my side I guess - what I mean is that it is too expensive to be attractive to the man on the street.
A truly global coin should be at a price level which makes it more logic to use in daily life.
I think if bitcoin will continue to exist it will be some sort of investment coin - not one to use for daily use - and that's basically what I mean with the man on the street image..
Also it must be easier to use and easy to obtain to everyone.

But all what I have said here is already well know so it is just repeating.

bitcoin will survive but do not imagine it will go upper and upper... Probably it will stay under the 1200 usd limit for a looooong time, going up and down.

I don't know how else to explain it - than BTC is already old-fashioned in itself. It may be of value - but all it is is a wallet where you can send/receive and hold a balance that's it.

A futuristic currency need more than that to be attractive to the masses.
Logic increment values (pay in decimal increments or sub values is too confusing) is one of them. But there are many more.

I am not able to explain to you which other features, because I am not a developer just a user - but the currency I'm currently looking at has all the visions I would like to see.

Yep I agree in the easiness of x-border use w/o fees and so forth. But that can be achieved by all currencies.

This

Visa/MC/Amex ONLY work because:

A) YOU the consumer WILL pay APR or will at least need to make additional time to pay this separate CC bill from your main account
B)  YOUR merchant will pay the fees and STILL wait 3 days for the funds to hit their merchant account & they are charged merchant fees for being able to process [notice how the govt mentions things like "merchant fees are too high" so we only take Cash, Check, or Money Order. (http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/DMV/pages/fees/driver.aspx)]
C)  Bank accounts and Credit cards have their own slew of problems - I've had transactions declined despite having the funds available, I've had to wait several days just for a deposited check to be cleared to spend it.  I've been charged a fee from my bank for doing more than 6 transfers between a linked checking and savings account.
D) These credit card issuers have had several decades (nearly a half a century) to allow for their infrastructure to be accepted.  You can only use them as widely as you can because the corporations that issue/license credit cards have themselves spent billions of dollars on advertising and infrastructure.  Btc is a grassroots type of thing where individuals who have little to no profit motive work hard to foster adoption.  

Just so you know:  cussing WILL NOT make you a billy badass on the internet, unless it is used in a humourous manner to where it enhances your conveyance of personality: example (http://gyzym.tumblr.com/post/24016417715/the-common-sense-guide-to-surviving-the-zombie).

You are correct,  I have never ran a buisness. Nor has the majority of the population.  You do not seem to understand or are trying not to. Im sure their will eventully be a crypto currency that is adopted and used by the mainstream. While btc has a nice headstart it has too many negative attributes to become mainstream. If there is going to be a mainstream crypto currency it will have to be much more user friendly then btc.

You need to be able to buy stuff instantly. Im sure its fine if you are sitting in a restaurant for 20 minutes. But when you have to use that same currency to buy petrol,  Mcdonalds, shopping etc.

I've bought gift cards instantly which were then used to buy stuff.  This all happened in the timeframe of 40 seconds or so.  Most companies that are accepting bitcoin are expected to allow 0 confirmation transactions up to a certain dollar amount.  Dollar amounts greater than 500 dollars should require a confirmation.  You are getting hung up on the idea of needing confirmations.  

Wallets show unconfirmed transactions instantly 98 percent of the time.

I think You would be very satisfied with WDC.
The total coin supply is limited (like BTC), the purchases has the first confirmation within 30 seconds (with BTC it takes 10 minutes for 1st confirmation). WDC transaction is FULLY confirmed and clear within 60 seconds ONLY.

I believe in cryptocurrencies and I have made some money also with BitCoins, but I did my due diligence on WorldCoin and I found it to be The Crypto currency.

I am sure all the BitCoin people know this in their backbone that BTC is not the final coin that will really take over.
The coin that can be better used for average Jills and Jacks is WorldCoin. Merchants cannot simply accept BTC because it is too slow - it is definetely one problem the merchants face when dealing with Bitcoins.
However, WDC has all the features the revolutionary cryptocoin needs: stable money supply, FAST fully confirmed transactions (the best among the cryptos so far), strong community that has been dedicated despite the obstacles. The road has been and will be rocky but the thing I admire in WorldCoin is that they core people there are so dedicated to make the coin the choice of everybody's daily life.

Everybody who tries how fast the WDC is will fall in love the coin.

Oh, and the price is low now also - your bitcoins have strong purchasing power over WDC currently.  ;)

I think you posted in the wrong thread.

No one here is against crypto currencies.  All we are saying is that we dont believe Bitcoin is the one that will succeed.  For reasons stated previously.

So instead of trying to look smarter then everyone else you should perhaps read whats going on first.

Personally I do not accept uncorfimed transactions as a business owner.

What if i change the name of mBTC to DumbassCoin, and would it be cheap enough for "the man on the street" ?
So far you dont even have a fcking clue or make any valid point about bitcoin's drawback.
LOL you're a joke .

Hey OP Austin Texas and Seattle Washington just added there own bitcoin atms good luck with your theory lol.

Ok lets cut the chase what scamcoins are you pumping? Stop stating the fcking bullshit...

How about this, i will make AssCoin that will generate block every 10 secs so you can you have quicker "transactions", i will even make it fancy by using alternating hashing algorithm so you have the good feel about "decentralized" ....

With about 10000 Trillions coins total, you can be a billionaire. Most importantly, you will be one of the "early adopters", wanna jump on this?

Nobody likes OP, OP is just sad.

nxt and nem are the answers! they are the two that will succeed! look it up.. bitcoin may still be the most expencive coin to buy in 10 years.. but nxt and nem will become widely adopted, take down wall street.. for the most part.. if you still think bitcoin is guna be top dog in 2 years.. your living in the past lol

Yea said the guy who has a huge stash of those two coins.

ATM that can cash out real money ?

I believe so I know you can buy btc with it and I am pretty sure you can receive funds as well.

It's on yahoo news.

What about lost coins?

Lost coins can't be recovered, in the long term a huge amount will be lost, maybe all of them in the really long term.

Bitcoin will most likely adapt in the future but Nem and Nxt will be up there along side it at some point. That is just my opinion though.

You live in the past then. To be competetive, merchants have to accept credit cards which is form of unconfirmed transaction for many months. Even bank transfers can be reversed, your only safe with cash (if not counterfeit :)).

I think hes just pulling our legs here guys. Op is holding 100+ btc.

 ::)

I am holding some btc. But thats besides the point.

Then feel free to unburden yourself of such a shitty idea like Bitcoin by giving them to me

What's the point of this joke?

The OP said it all in his post. He simply doesn't understand how bitcoin work. He is most likely using an Old client or hes sending his coins with no transaction fee. Learn what your talking about before you come crying to the forums...

I believe bitcoin has a spot in this world. It is a global currency and it has a lot of qualities that many desire within their currency. I admit, it has some things that need to be figured out before its a safe investment. But in my opinion, its here to stay. Someone is always going to be willing to pay for these, even if they get outlawed..

ignored

When I scroll up and down just this thread which is focused on the BTC I get a clear picture of the diehard fanatic BTC followers (this BTW goes for many many other threads and posts in bitcointalk as a whole):

rude
foulmouthed
harassing
BTC snobs
ridiculing
patronizing

I probably forgot some - but the matter of fact is that such attitudes and behaviors are painting a bad impression of the coin.

Granted some of you have elaborated with constructive responses which I am happy to read.

The rest is just noise.
I'll leave it to you to bash me further for speaking the truth - enjoy your cursing in choir :)

Go back to your Pandacoin,

Maybe in your la la land where you can dream far enough, you would be in my shoes.

Meanwhile, you have a free pass to my ignore list with the top rank "dumb as fck"

BitCoin is a dying currency. In fact, it will never reach the mass adoption because it is not technically exaxctly 2014.
Why not just slowly leave the sinking boat (sorry my expression but this is how I see it) and buy WorldCoins.
I am not suggesting anything like "all-in" but make a plan - for example buy 0.1-1.0 BTC's worth of WorldCoins on daily basis. Thus you build a nice bag of the most advanced cryptocurrency.
Many of you are quite rich and perhaps heavily invested in bitcoins. Now it might be a good time to diversify a little bit.
By having always the best crypto as your base/core currency you make sure you will not get wiped out when BitCoin falls.
The smart business people can sense the signals of the "threath" that altcoins (WorldCoin especially) brings on the table.
I think we, as bitcoin community, need to be more open to new cryptocurrencies. Never stuck in one. When you have made a ton of money with one, it is not time to leave to the comfort. There are new coins coming and we need to pick up the best one.
I did my research among the cryptocurrencies and I agree, the vast majority of them is crab/somebody's hobby.
However as I came across to WDC all my requirements for a good cryptocurrency were fulfilled. It is technically the most advanced coin with very fast confirmation time, new coin (the price is cheap) and the most important thing: very strong and dedicated community that have gone through quite big challenges and became out from each of them as more than a conqueror.

By the way, not it is not too expensive to get among the 10 richest WorldCoin wallets. For this you need around 100-200 BTC last time I checked. Among 100 richest you will get only with around 20 bitcoins at the current price... The coin is quite well spread - the richest wallet have less than 2 million coins only.

@Jomppe
Yep - WDC is one of the coins I'm already into - good concept and showing the direction a truly futuristic currency must take.
There are a few other currencies with similar outlook and visions - and those imo will be the big winners soon.
Good luck :)

@seriouscoin
lol - ignore is for spineless people - I don't care much about you anyway

Bitcoin is like a five-year-old Tiger Woods. It might not last, but it's got plenty of fame, fortune, and shenanigans to look forward to. ;D

have you done any research into them..? besides the crappy distribution? dgex alone has already processed over half the total nxt coins in existence.. thats not including the other exchanges and private sales so distribution is already getting allot better! and i dont actually hold that many coins.. if you follow the nxt dev thread they are doing some really cool stuff.. and have allot planned!

Time to put your WDC address in your sig for tips bitch!

Any other coins you're pumping?

Btw, dont ask for btc in your sig if its dying alright? Fcking loser

Jeezz what a kindergarten!

Fuck WorldCoin.

Why make you think its a joke and it will not last ? look at how much money are in it now

This world is full with peoples everyone has their own brains , they can think whatever they want to, most of the times I don't even bother about what others perception is , you just study things on your own and decide if its worth it or not, I found it worthy so here I'm 

In order to understand bitcoin you have to first understand fiat currency and it seems to me like you don't. Fiat didn't just become what it is today all at once, it changed as times changed and like everything bitcoin will have to change as time change or it will not survive, simple as that. Even today just small percentage of US dollar is physical, rest is digital. Why? Cost of printing it. Simple as that. Still it is centralized, and I don't see that changing. Bitcoin has that advantage, and it will have to change when the times ask that or it will be replaced.

How come whenever I see BitCoin instead of bitcoin the person does not know what they are taking about?

You're a towel.

Hehe joke that will never last ??? It  is lasting from 2009 till now , joke can't last that long :) .

If bitcoin is a joke then I've been laughing for a while though...

I agree that BTC isn't the one and only crypto - others will succeed on our failings - that's nature.

I agree to . There are some "better" , faster coins. Just "world" is having trouble accepting bitcoin, so i don't thinks that some alt coins will made it big anytime soon .

But bitcoin is here to stay.

did you acctualu used visa recently ? or bitcoins have certain advantages normal money doesnt have. People are suing them not becouse they act like blind ship fallowing the others. they use them becouse they see certain diference, diference that makes actual damn good reason to use them. Reasons that you should alredy notice, and if you havent, I cant find any reason to talk with you about it

It is the future but it can also eat up a lot of your time and decrease your level of happiness.

Have you noticed that in most establishments, you no longer have to sign a credit card receipt for small purchases?

That's because someone finally figured out that it's not worth slowing down the purchases for 999 people, in order to have physical evidence for that 1 person that cheated them out of a $10 purchase.

Same with BitCoin. No one is going to force you to stand there and wait for 1 confirmation, much less 6, on a $5 latte.  The minuscule risk is built into their business model. As soon as the transaction shows up pending on a large node or two (which takes what, 1-2 seconds?), there is no reason to not accept the transaction.  Between the lower transaction fees and no charge backs, their risk is far less than that of a credit card.

Sure, if you are buying a Ferrari, you'll be waiting around for all 6 confirmations. But when's the last time you put a Ferrari on a credit card? (Hint: They won't accept anything but a small deposit on a credit card because of the 2-3% transaction fee).

Holding millions makes me poor, yes.

The Internet may not last. The electrical grid may not last. If they fail, Bitcoin will probably fail as well.

What we need for the Internet and the power grid is something like Bitcoin, something with no central control. Has anyone seen something practical along these lines?

The way to make Bitcoin super-practical is to combine it with MaidSafe - http://maidsafe.net/ - or something like MaidSafe.

Now, I am not really promoting MaidSafe. I only mention it so that everyone has an opportunity to take a look. If it works, it'll be great. But nothing will work if communications and/or the power grid come down.

:)

good find!

It is helping to build communities that otherwise would never happen. Bitcoin is just not for transactions it has a much much wider impact on people's lives in general.

The mindset of the cautious helps to keep us from going down the wrong paths as a whole.  If a new "advancement" truly has enough negatives about it, then the cautious side can often sway a large portion of the adventurous to not pursue it too quickly, and over time, if those negatives are realized, they will only impact a small portion of the population that did not listen.

This is a good point.
For all we know, our 'real' currency systems will not exist in 1000 years, or even 100.
Who's to say bitcoins won't at least outlive the dollar?

Sidenote; Glad this topic came to be used for some real discussion even tho OP created it as an awful attempt at trolling.

Oh god! Will you please stop promoting that shitty altcoin in this thread already? It's so annoying goddamn it!
You are ruining the discussion. >:(

Care to create "a better digital currency"?

Every 10 minutes the transactions are collected and added to the blockchain via mining. To reach the mathematical impossibility of a double spend most people suggest you wait 6 confirmations for full satisfaction that the transaction cannot be charged back.

This is an old post I felt like bumping.  Mostly wrong thoughts from OP but fees have risen a bit.

I totally agree with the OP... Oh no wait I misread the title and thought it read fiat is a joke and will never last.  My bad carry on with whatever this is.

I dont know if its bitcoin or other but the world is just moving paper money will sometime stop existing due to the computers fast growing.Imagine if 30 years ago could we imagine what internet has done to commerce and communication science and news...
hope its bitcoin because am mining it

For those who compare Bitcoin to credit cards.  They are not the same.   One is treated as cash the other as credit. When you use credit you are using borrowed money.   Its an unsecured loan and thats why the interest is so high.

You have to compare bitcoin to debit cards.

Banks provide financial services.   You need banks for loans and credit and other things.   Money transfer is just one thing.   But you don't need BTC to do a blockchain transfer.   That can be done w any crypto.  Crypto doesn't replace need for banks.   It just gives user a choice to hold their own money in their own wallet

If you need a mortgage.   You still need a lender

Actually btc is treated like a product by the US government, isnt that ironic?

I doubt it will ever be BTC that goes mainstream. But it'll definitely have a value. But another crypto currency will probably be the future. Bitcoin has too much shitty reputation in mainstream media, connected to weapon trade, drug trade, contract killers etc. Also the mainstream community is slow, this will take many many years.

I am not that sure. Recently I started thinking about them and it is tue that you will never be able to go the supermarket and buy a bubble gum and wait 30 minutes for 3 confirmations. I would imagine bitcoin will hold its value in future to some reasonable point and being the first cryptocurrency but it is true some other currency will replace it, at least, with faster speed.

They said Dogecoin was a joke and it would never last, they said the same about facebook.  Never make judgement without being open minded for the possibilites, no absolution.

Mainstream media are not objective, cash is used here much more often  :)

The flaw I see in that argument is that it does not take into account the additional layers that will evolve on top of the bitcoin protocol. For example, when you buy a pack of bubble gum at the supermarket and use your credit card or a check the same risk emerges. The card could be bogus, it could be stolen, the check could bounce, the buyer could dispute the sale, etc. Their is no way to really confirm that you can pay for that gum. But the card issuer or bank uses it's internal systems and hedges with insurance to allow the sale. Later they sort it out and eventually the store gets it's money.
Bitcoin begins confirming in 10mins. And even after 1 confirmation it is safe to consider it a done deal on small purchases. It is not cost effective  to summon a huge array of supercomputers to create a fake block so that the bad actor can steal a pack of gum. If you were selling a house then you may want to wait for a full 6 confirmations, but what is an hour when buying a house?
Retailers I have talked with love that bitcoin is so fast. A credit card transaction or a check may look fast from the perspective of the buyer, but for the seller it is the first step in getting their money. When a bitcoin transaction goes through, the seller has the money in minutes and the whole thing is over with no risk of charge-backs or fraud.  

Sometimes when people ask me to tell them a joke I just say, "bitcoin", and we all have a good laugh.

Q: Why is there no gold at the end of the rainbow?
A: The leprechaun took it and traded it for bitcoins!

Q: What is the difference between a bitcoin and a US Dollar?
A: A bitcoin is worth 500 US Dollars!

Its actually 461$ atm . Bitcoin is to good to fail. We will see in the future.

Zero-confirm transactions are often faster than credit and debit card purchases, and in many use cases have lower expected losses due to fraud as well.  

Right now the network is quite well behaved it is difficult to successfully double-spend a zero-confirm (instant) transaction.  I would accept up to $3000 of value in a face-to-face zero-confirm transaction, and probably up to $400 remotely.  For larger values, I would wait for 1 to several confirmations, depending on the values involved.  

We don't yet know how the network will behave in the future.  We do know however, that the bitcoin economy will suffer aggregate losses due to zero-confirm fraud no greater than:

       (% losses on zero confirm TXs) <=
  (weighted % of TXs where double spending is attempted) x (% of hash power that accepts out-of-band double-spends for a fee)

If we assume that 10% of the hash power is willingly complicit in facilitating zero-confirm double-spending, and consumers in aggregate attempt to double spend 2% of all transactions, then we would expect losses no greater than (0.1) x (0.02) = 0.2%.  This would be already much better than the losses due to Visa, MasterCard or PayPal fraud.  For 1+ confirms, the losses due to double spending would be almost non-existant.  

Lastly, any merchant is free to require 1, 2, 3 + confirms if the expected losses are too high.


Here is a discussion on what it actually takes to successfully double-spend in a brick and mortar store:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=549141.msg5977547#msg5977547

And here is a discussion on the ethics of bitcoin mining as applied to zero-confirm fraud:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=502571.0

That's not how it works.

If you buy a pack of bubble gum at the supermarket, Visa/Mastercard GUARANTEE to give the merchant the money. That's one reason the merchant pays Visa/Mastercard 2-3%. Visa/Mastercard then take any risks like the card is stolen. If the card was stolen, Visa/Mastercard STILL pays the merchant, it's just them that are out the money.

A check, on the other hand, is more like bitcoin. The merchant takes the risk. The merchant deposits the check and after a few days (maybe as long as 5) it clears and is valid. Which is why merchants usually require ID when taking checks, so they can either track the person down to get the money, or to put their name and picture up at the store to warn to not allow this person to buy at the store.

Should bitcoin transactions work like checks, where the merchants get the ID from the bitcoin users? Or will there be a middleman like Visa/Mastercard that will guarantee the transactions, but charge a fee?

No they don't.  That is the concept of a charge back.  Visa/Mastercard don't lose: the customer or the merchant does.  Charge-back fraud is a serious problem for merchant's accepting credit cards.  

Everytime one of these threads bugs me I google "Hitler sells all of his bitcoins" and have a good laugh.  I'm sure this guy will be going on about how bitcoin will die 10 years from now when it's become popular.

What you are saying is still what I am saying. Although it is not MC/Visa that is out the money. They are insured against such losses and pass that expense on to customers. What this shows is that their system is fundamentally weaker than bitcoin and needs to have it's hand held. Once a bitcoin transaction is completed the vendor has money and nothing can change that. In that way it is NOTHING like a check. A check is nothing more than an IOU. It may take a week to get actual money from that sale and without checking the identity of the check writer the system is extremely vulnerable to fraud.
There is absolutely no reason a seller needs your identity with bitcoin. Within minutes the seller has their money and they could care less who paid.  However I do still think middle men will evolve to handle hyper-fast transactions. Indeed companies like bit-pay are already moving into this space.

The USD is connected to more criminal activity that Bitcoin will ever be.  For example, take a narcotic sniffing dog into any financial institution and let it check for the presence of an odor of illegal narcotics in the bulk currency on hand.  The K-9 will hit every time. 

OP sends money to a friend, transaction takes 15 minutes to verify... OP quits crypto currency.

strongly disagree, bitcoin adotpion is only matter of time
so many startups, so many ATM's

just everything takes time

this is very true with all of the new atms and everyting comiong up bitcoin is becoming more and more popular each year and i dont see it ever ending now

Damn Tom (durrrr) Dwan is on btctalk :D

One and a half month. Bitcoin is still going strong and OP has gotten nowhere. Surprise! :)

even a SEPA wire usually takes 1-2 days, BTC confirms in 15 mins, so 96-192 times faster, plus a lot less "mouse-miles" and mouseclicks!

for chumpchange you can use doge which confirms in a minute or so.

Credit card takes instantly, 1-3 sec, accepted in every market in the world, each ATM accept it.
(USA,Russia,Canada,China,Japan, Germany, India, Australia, United Kingdom, Italy, France, etc............)
plus a lot less and safer than BTC :D

Had had something valuable to add, but after that last post....
I'm going somewhere else.   :D

Edit:
Looks like the post I was talking about has been deleted by a mod.

Absolutely. Almost all forms of "customer not present" transaction today are stacked massively against the merchant towards the customer. That's probably how it should be, but the consequence is that a merchant will almost never win a charge back. They will most likely need to sue the customer themselves.

I've been taking credit card payments for Internet hosting services since 2006 and I've never won a chargeback even when I've presented proof to the credit card processor that the customer used the service (i.e. was not third party fraud via stolen card).

That's irritating but I do consider it a cost of doing business and am not really complaining about it.

That fact that—with bitcoin—the customer is expected to provide their own security is a challenge for bitcoin adoption by ordinary people. Not an insurmountable one in my opinion, but let's be realistic here.

The best joke is one that turns out to be real  :D

I can see you never been a merchant. When a merchant receive a payment with credit card, he has to take a risk of chargeback due to various reasons. Chargeback is for the protection of consumers. Chargeback forces merchants to produce better goods and services, but it can be real headache for the merchants.
Merchants will love bitcoin, because there is no chargeback. And merchants can provide same goods and service with cheaper price.
 
Many people complains that bitcoin transaction takes too long to confirm, an hour currently. But that's not an issue. I already have an idea how to overcome long confirm period. Of course, I'm not sharing my million dollar idea. But there are many ways to work around it.

WOW,
15th april 2014, Game over for China !!!

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/latest/china-clamps-down-on-bitcoin/story-e6frg90f-1226871648275

So this turned out to just be bullshit then. :)
Don't spread rumors!

Don't kid yourself. Chinese will not stop at few stupid laws.
I still see tons of bitcoins are sucked into China.
Watch yourself.
http://fiatleak.com/

I opened http://fiatleak.com/ for about 15 min and over 2390 bitcoins are went to China.

Time tells no lies and 5 years later Bitcoin has only gotten stronger than where it was before
Where the next 5 years take us remains a road and path we have yet to cross and I for one will sure look forward to it

OP you really think this way? Is there any people concerned that others wouldn't use bitcoin and why?

I don't think he really believes in what he posted. If he does, he's an idiot, and if he doesn't, he's an idiot for trolling the forums.
That leaves us to 2 alternatives, he's either and idiot or an idiot. :)

agreed, bad troll is also idiot.

Oh yes definitely, and these are the kind of people we don't need in the community anyways! So it's a good thing they come out with their unpopular opinions in the open so we know who they are. :)

He sounds jealous to me. Perhaps a friend told him about bitcoin back in 2012. So he has to think it is a joke else he is the joke.

LOL OP has no vision.

If a better solution comes to replace bit coin that doesn't necessarily mean it will "NEVER" last.

Trust me when I say that the next solution will likely be inspired by bitcoin if not mimicked on a certain level to the current protocol.

OP is a joke and will never ever last.

Many of the gold bugs who had gotten told to buy Bitcoin when they were less than a dollar are in denial that they believe Bitcoin is a "ponzi" blah blah blah.

They know that the potential for it to grow this big has now created momentum for moving forward.

Guys like OP have no vision or are just mad they didnt get in earlier when the prices were much lower...like $5 or less.

Of course I'm bitter about that aswell, but it was a conscious desicion and there's no need to talk down on it because I wasn't ready to take a risk.

Cortana said me it will last atleast 500 years so... :D

If an advanced AI from the future says it will work then that's good enough for me UNSC Hoo Rah xD

For something to replace cash, it has to be as good as or better than cash.

Bitcoin is not as good as good as cash. Some alts are though.

it will last minimum another 5 year.

OP posted on the forums for 3 days total in February.

 From the couple of other posts he seemed bummed that a transaction he made took 5 hours or so to confirm so problably concluded visa is better and if he were to buy a coffee with Bitcoin he would obviously have to stand and wait 5 hours for confirmation meanwhile his coffee would be stone cold.

Cold coffee =  :-\

Warm coffee (visa) =  :D

It'll surely last longer than that, question is what will the value be. It's not going to magically disappear after 5 years.

Like Cortana said ir will last 500 years :D .
Now serious, i think price will only go up. New people getting into it, and its harder and harder to mine. So that what is mined need to spread up, and price will go up. :)

Indeed. But we might encounter unexpected problems in the future. Or we might not. We'll see. :)

We will that is for sure, but every time bitcoin takes a beating , price recovers. That downs are great for trading :) .

ok, i'll take the bait.

which alt and why?

Noo what have you done. Don't feed the trolls. :(

Actually bitcoin does have a few advantages over cash (and many more disadvantages, but those can be overcome and are mostly related to it not being widely adopted yet.)

1.) You can easily send Bitcoin anywhere in the world without a major hassle or expense.
2.) Bitcoin doesn't wear out like cash.
3.) Bitcoin, to my knowledge, cannot be counterfeited.
4.) Bitcoin isn't dirty. Money is filthy and can carry bacteria, dangerous chemicals such as drug residue, etc.

Just a few off the top of my head.

Do you have some sort of bacteria phobia by any chance? Think I recall a previous post hinting at that as well.

This goes out to Mr. OP:

Every day, another story appears confirming how close BTCitcoin is to hitting critical mass.
An article in 'Forbes' said it perfectly:
"Even if you weren't intrigued by other aspects of this rock star digital currency, it's hard to argue with over 5,000% appreciation in less than a year."
So many people(including myself) believe we are now just in the very early stages of massive BTCitcoin growth.

**Keep in mind that there were other so-called digital Currency companies before "BTCitcoin" came into existence and they all failed, why? because unlike BTCitcoin, they were centralized.  "Decentralized" is what's making BTCitcoin so popular and in time will show why BTCitcoin is here to stay - "Produced by the people, For the people!"
The 0nes that came 0r come after BTCitcoin are just, imitator's!!!!!!! And so therefore BTCitcoin will be seen as the TRUE Leader for years to come - Get 0ver It!
Let's move on 4rm this topic shall we! We don't need to hear negative when in fact we know it is POSITIVELY POSITIVE.

+1

As a holder of more than one merchant account, I can tell you that you that there is no comparison between Bitcon confirmations and credit card confirmations.

You are just wrong on this one.

I have a slightly different opinion here. I think bitcoin is a better place to participate and share opinions.

this thread is a major joke

Before, my thoughts with you.
It can not understand the value of existence, but now can accept, and when acceptable to all, anything is possible!

How about days waiting to transfer money between accounts?

New economy movement a.k.a. NEM will dethrone BTC in long run. It is not launched yet, so you still have time to became early adopters. Design of NEM has in mind needs of average Joes and got rid off all Bitcoins tech flaws. But dont trust me. See for your self.

Bitcoin is a JOKE OF A CURRENCY.

bitcoin is dead...

This is a great joke which will turn your life change in future.

Bitcoin must survive as it is an ideal of US Democracy.  Americans don't fuck around.

Bitcoin was great for opening the doors for cryptocurrencies, but it needs to step aside soon.
 
Second generation coins, NXT, NEM etc. overcome Bitcoin, at least one of them will, because of lots of features and no Ghash mining needed. Those are more like platforms where you can build allkinds of apps and functions not being just coins. Also no 51% attack worries.  8)

You could well be correct.

Transactions takes few seconds, first confirmation takes less than 10 minutes usually, Bank Deposits take DAYS to confirm. I don't see bitcoins so unpractical or anything.

Hope bitcoin stays forever. Hope it will grow and grow and convince more and more people to use it.

I think that people who have heard about Bitcoin and dismissed it will have the most regret, this is why I wont comment on the OP, after sometime he will see the success but by then regret will kill him.

I've never liked the concept of POS currencies because the stakeholders have all the power and control and don't need to fight to defend it. With POW miners at least have to keep constantly improving to maintain control. That is more dynamic.

Bitcoins don't really need any confirmation to operate. People often use third party merchant services. These services does not require any confirmation or waiting time.

Stakeholders can't afford to vote for changes that makes ordinary users unhappy, because ordinary users could easily stop using that currency and pick up some other. It leads to lower value so stakeholders then loosing their wealth.

Not exactly, at least 2000 there Bitcoin addresses with over a thousand outside those belonging to the same owner.
http://bitcoinrichlist.com/top100
PoW is a business for ASIC manufacturers only. If you can keep the network secure spending practically nothing of Energy.

- Bitcoin is still the best investment today, can not say the same tomorrow.
- Riple is centralized, but the good thing is that it has no tail stuck with a government.
- NXT was unevenly distributed but contains important innovations with pure asset exchanges and PoS.
- Ethereum must contain smart contracts and feasibility of implementing apps.
- NEM contain PoI (Proof of Interest), colored coins and other extra features.

There is no war weapons (ASICs) but war between Devs. Who creates the best currency?

Bitcoin is the worst investement you can possibly make. It's dead already.

Exactly.  0-Conf txs are not risky for your average cafe.  I'm sure you would understand waiting for a bank transfer before handing someone your car

So what are you doing here?

got his point and most of the people will think like that right now
and the fact that most of the world don't accept dramatic changes in their lives is the main cause why people are not rich.
someday you might think different my friend, hope it wont be late

Bitcoin isn't a real currency?

You're writing surely said something different.

OMG, it's alive again! Run!!!!

There's like 300 coins now and they're technically all better but Bitcoin remains king.

and it will fail after the initial investor insiders exit the system.

you're 100% right there is NO WAY that we can affordably sustain all this Proof of Work nonsense for much longer.  They may have to include Color Coins in order to(try to) stay on top of NXT but this will make things MUCH more complex and will not solve the basic problems that have been discussed many times.

-bm

You fail to understand that the nature of cryptocurrencies is that they CAN and DO change through continued development. The bitcoin system has changed a lot from its inception in 2008 to now. Bitcoin definitely has several key technical disadvantages at the moment, both those that are limiting all cryptos (ease of use, for example) and those that some other coins have remedied (like transaction speed). But it will solve these problems as development continues.

if we accept this then we accept that Bitcoin does NOT have a natural advantage in the milieu of cryptocoin technology.

-bm

OPs existence is a joke and his argument won't last.

thanks anon, your advice has been so valuable over the years.  You've always been there through thick and thin.  Thanks.

-bm

This is straight up FUD (you're all over every thread trying to pump NXT)

Proof of work has been "working" for 5 years and is the only proven,
demonstrable, time-tested method for achieving distributed consensus.

If NXT is half as great as you say it is, it will stand on its own without
overhyping it or trying to bash bitcoin.

to be clear Im not a NXT shill.  I'm a cryptocurrency expert.  I got involved with NXT fairly recently.  The NXT model is far more lucrative than Bitcoin.  I've also been involved with the PPC community and I've worked on other algorithms in the past.

PoW has not been 'proven' to do anything.  It's just that we've never seen it be exploited to any significant degree.  And it's possible to purchase this protection for so long as the insiders can afford to monopolize the hashing power, or the reward for hashing honestly is higher than the reward for hashing dishonestly.  That monopoly is very close to being broken.  In addition, as block reward gets smaller, the hashers must pay for electricity via transaction fees.  In a recent earlier post you displayed an ignorance of this fact.  It's very very important.

Bitcoin will continue to 'work' only for so long as the block reward continues to be valuable enough(in real terms) to offset an attack.  We are very close to this threshold and color coins just might push it over the edge.

go and have a look at NXT for yourself, then decide.

-bm

No offense but PPcoin is not a well chosen name. If you want an altcoin to succeed it needs a good name.




What do you mean by very close? Its at least 5 years more.

'forging' is not exactly great either... but these things weren't created by marketing people they were created by engineers.

-bm

Sure, but a coin needs adoption by people for it to have value.

I'm sure you are a cryptocurrency expert,
and obviously you're smart as sh*t, i'm
not trying to take any of that any from
you.

However, i'm not dumb myself so I would
appreciate you not insinuiting that I
can't grasp basic math and economics.
Claiming that I'm displaying ignorance
in another thread is pointless.

Obviously the bitcoin economic model
assumes adoption over time, an increasing
unit price, and decreasing revenue from
fees.  (this is nothing new).

Let's look at your claim about electricity
costs.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison

Competitive efficiency is running between
1 and .1 Watt/GhS, and in the future likely
will tend to the latter (or even surpass it)

The average price for electricty is about
10 cents per killowatt hour.

basic arithmetic gives us:

$0.1  / killowatt hour
$0.0001 / watt hour
$0.00001 / .1 watt hour

Assuming network hashrate of 70,000,000 Gh/s,

70,000,000  x .00001 = $700/hr

or... 700 x 24 = $16,800/day.

Even a measly 5 million dollars
per day in transactions gives
you $16,800 with a 0.3% transaction
fee.

But hold on...

We'll still have a block reward of
0.78125000 even by the year 2032,
which is 112 Bitcoins per day.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_supply

Even at TODAY's prices, that's
112 x $500 = $56,000.

All that being said, I'm still not
anti NXT (although some of the claims
it makes are unproven)

I have looked into it, and I think
it seems promising.  Bitcoin is
not guaranteed to be the king
of the ring forever, and if there
was a rising star, we would see it
coming.

We have seen NXT to be rising and
its the 5th biggest cryptocurrency.

So i'm not saying NXT doesn't have
a lot of potential.  It may. I'm also
saying Bitcoin does too :)

let's try and look in places outside of Bitcoin-land?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/12/03/fascinating-number-bitcoin-mining-uses-15-millions-worth-of-electricity-every-day/

I appreciate the compliments.  I've enjoyed our discussions so far.

-bm

Bitcoin miners are not paying the same price everywhere, they will look for places with the cheapest electricity cost. The $15 million estimation is probably off, but I cannot say for sure by how much;

As for energy wasting, society wastes tons of energy: television shows, useless political trips and many other things. I think the solution is not to use less energy, but to change the way society deals with energy.

hi D&T!

ok so we've got on one hand

anon from Bitcointalk.org who contends that power consumptions is not a problem,

and

Forbes magazine who suggests that power consumption is heinously out of control.

another one from TechCrunch.  http://techcrunch.com/2013/04/13/the-cost-of-a-bitcoin/

-bm

an article on the world's largest Bitcoin mining operation: 

http://www.businessinsider.com/worlds-largest-bitcoin-mining-operation-2014-3

-bm

Has it failed yet?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-tOI6XvzTC5M/T6m0awZPY3I/AAAAAAAAANY/87CTdAORc0M/s1600/pb-120504-hindenburg-09_photoblog900.jpg

-bm

what you say is just a joke ,no mater how the future of btc ,it's already been knew for many people

Don't be so sure that we will never be able to walk into a shop and just pay for an item.

Just stop/prevent war and you spare a *lot* of energy.
Bombs and bullets are not productive, they are made to be destroyed.
If you take all military energy consumption together you could light up another sun.

Bitcoin will force peace on this planet. Amen.

Your horrendous exaggeration weakens your otherwise important point.

lol this topic is more like a joke.

They are not all better.  Some are worse because they "tuned" parameters without having a clue.

bitcoin fluctuates too much to be used a proper real world currency.

1 BTC is always 1 BTC. The dollar fluctuates wildly against it.

I understand that but say for example

 if I was in a line waiting for the new iphone 6 the guy in the front of the line would pay 0.85btc since the iphone costs $507.
By the time I get to the front of the line I would have to pay 0.95btc since the price has dropped.
Hyperinflation

You can always just buy the bitcoins as you spend them. Some vendors even give a discount for using bitcoins that's greater than the fees to purchase them so you save money.
Protip: buy bitcoins when lower and spend when higher.

bitcoin is still very small and is in it's infancy. As bitcoin evolves and matures it's price will become more stable.

True there are many better currencies, btc was just first and wil stay as most popular for soem more time.

I currently do this

yep, later on it should stable.

I believe that bitcoin has a spot in this world and it is a global currency and it has a lot of qualities that many desire within their currency. I admit, it has some things that need to be figured out before its a safe investment. But in my opinion, its here to stay. Someone is always going to be willing to pay for these, even if they get outlawed....

The bitcoin price is irrelevant because they're still basing it on fiat. Just make an Iphone be worth 1btc and it will always be worth 1btc. People need to stop thinking in dollar terms.

Gold has the same limitations as Bitcoin, on a higher level, but did you see it fail over thousands of years?

This is clearly a troll thread. I don't understand why these fud threads arent locked or deleted.

I can't imagine day-to-day transactions won't mostly be 0-confirmation. Hell, everything I've ever bought on Bitpay was 0-confirmation -- necessarily, due to their 15-minute invoice time.

http://37.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9yh41EMiJ1qedb29o1_500.gif

stop up old thread !

Troll or fud threads arent usually locked or deleted. This forum is pretty lax about this stuff. They usually get moved if theyre in the wrong place though.

Bitcoin will succeed even more than troll threads.

damn straight, second that

I respect your ability to speak logically and not emotively.
If we ever meet, your favorite beer, milkshake, coffee, maccha or whatever is on me :-)
 

Maybe I take my comment above back.
Not sure if this users icon is the same or a joke with someone else using his icon (no time to fig thru it all as I am working).
https://i.imgur.com/q4TMHGL.jpg
*Either way...this place is an amazing place of great people merged with top of the line scum.

Bitcoin is future, innovation, evolution, if you don't believe that, why is your signature promoting a Bitcoin page ? haha

If you're gonna do it, give it 110%!

I think it's mainly allowed for "freedom of speech", and with the freedom we get plenty of both good and bad.

No, It is not a joke but innovation. Bitcoin is changing the world.

Absolutely, OP, why are you here if you think BTC is joke and will never last? We are here because we believe BTC has a bright future.

Bitcoin is a recent phenomenon where the funds converted from one currency into another currency, and distributed via the internet. A virtual bank, its popularity has increased because there is no physical location where the funds can be entangled in a complicated affair, and there is no way for people to explore tax funds easily. On the other hand, the money will be virtual (virtual), thus could be gone with the internet

The op hasnt even posted since feburary. I wish these troll threads would just get locked.

doubt u understand what ure talking about.
as far as "better digital currency" is concerned, you can allways modify bitcoin by forking it, all it takes is good preparation and 2 biggest pools to agree.

people will never leave bitcoin for another coin, because that breaks "coin is actualy worth holding" psychology.

I agree with this. Sometimes I wish mods would step in and delete fud threads or posts like this. Look how long this has carried on for and the op is long gone.

bitcoin has a large number of supporters, he will never die!

Seems to me you are part of the problem. Don't like this thread? Easy, mark as read, ignore, move on, Period.

I agree. People that post just to complain are part of the problem. The best thing to do is just ignore them and not even give advice.

So you oppose open and free discussion?

Great.

Been gone for a while due to health issues but everything is OK now.

Just kind of took a break from the madness of crypto!

You don't wait for actual confirmations when you are paying for a subway or a starbucks coffee you stupid idiot.

Bitcoin is more of an asset isn't it?

Necro thread + feeding a troll. My favourite combo :D

And here I am worrying about being banned for spamming and making sure I am on-topic for every post...
What a joke.

Anyway, OP credit cards have the same 3-5 business day clearing times so I don't see any difference
Fiat/hard cash on the other hand bitcoin still has generations to beat that.

PayPal:

3 Business Days Withdraw Time

Bank to Bank transfer:

2 Business Days




Bitcoin is doing good at 3 hours. And, it can run on the weekend. PayPal, Bank accounts, etc dont process on weekends.

Why are you on this forum then, discussing bitcoin ?!
Try paying for something using bitpay, you will see that its easy and fast, anyways noone said we need bitcoin everywhere, internet shops would be enough, as they cover huge amount of market.

cheers

If I wanted to, I could open my banks app on my smartphone, buy a Starbucks coffee with that banks ATM card and watch the money come out of my account before they start making it.

I don't think you should be calling anybody a stupid idiot, know what I mean?

Edit: Not only that, I can always see on the POS terminal where a PIN is required the word APPROVED when making a purchase. If that isn't confirmation to the merchant I don't know what is.

Bitcoin is a joke that I've cashed out on several times now and at the next big spike in price I'll do it again. I love jokes like this! Who cares if it lasts - ride the wave now dood!

I agree with the original poster he is a god amung men.

I had to wait from 7:00-19:00 yes 12 hours for the confirmation of 0.01 BTC to complete.

However for some reason it was hanging at 35 confirmations and later that day when I checked it went back to 85 confirmations wot the fuckk??

I hath gotted into dogecoin as well as bitcoin its cheap now so I can buy thousends of them and mine them using antminer s1 then convert it to Doggie? Doge? Dog? much confuse

eny hoo

so if the dog gets to just $1 or even $0.1 that's a huge profit if u got millions of the dog so hopefully this crypto if it goes mainstream will the price sky rocket to the moon?????!?

Did you include a transaction fee?

More like this thread is a joke

It should be moved to the troll-post forum.

I think you yourself, Tenarlty, and others that don't like this thread should keep posting, keep it alive.

And that's for being just a joke, now imagine if Bitcoin starts behaving seriously $_$

What is the point in deleting threads like this one? People will simply list a lot of reasons why bitcoin will be successful and others will post grammatically incorrect posts, making fun of the OP while being a believer of bitcoin.

Posts like these bring a certain level of entertainment to this forum.