Bitcoin Forum

"All it takes for evil to win is for good men to watch and do nothing."

Hi, I just had somebody make big errors, acknowledging them and then extorting me for money they agreed to send previously for my work unless I deleted all conversation about it. Extortion is a serious crime punishable by decades of prison in every country.

This topic is for discussion on the ability of mods to ban people for committing crimes that are provable. I've sent the reported PM in, and still it says inaction. I know the mods are very good about deleting duplicate posts, and they are quick about it too, yet this has remained "unhandled" for quite some time. I have a 97% report rating over hundreds of reports, so I'm familiar with the rules. What do you all think about reporting crimes, and potential mod inaction on them?

You can read more about the extortion and etc. here, but this topic is for Meta discussion only on moderation and how it relates to the forums.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4795083.msg43258013#msg43258013

Scams are not moderated so there is nothing to report. Payments from a campaign are between you and the campaign manager and have nothing to do with the forum. You've already opened a thread in Scam Accusations which is the correct course of action.

He's on record saying I scammed him out of $960.

He really is out of his mind.  

I'm a campaign manager who paid him for his work, and doesn't want to deal with his drama anymore.

So, I added a Legendary member that is not only more mature, but who is also a better poster.

No, you agreed to reinstate me back into the campaign as well as pay me, as can be shown here. So yes, the potential profits from the campaign were scammed when you didn't hold up to the agreement you said in writing.

https://i.imgur.com/Qde3zKM.png

https://i.imgur.com/IDi0Kx7.png

You can either just report a post or the private message and add further details, but this isn't something staff would get involved with. Open up a scam accusation if you really wish to proceed with this but it isn't a Meta issue.

I don't know if that really scam or not.
OP open 2 threads before, first in https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4795083.0 scam accusation and one in https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4794752.0 reputation, i read his story but he open 2 threads about same topic in different section. I think 1 thread is enough and he come to here to ask again.

Side note : just my advice but lock one of your thread, you post picture that already post in your another thread and its looks like spam for me. You can focus in one thread so no need to post in different thread. http://archive.fo/mJOHL
is up to you to take it or not.

Thanks! I understand you don't moderate scams, but you do moderate illegal activity. Which is what criminal extortion is. Not only that, it was criminal extortion to censor me, so I imagine the btc community would be pretty upset at censorship like that. I went ahead and did that for a post which clearly is breaking some major rules, and even laws. Withholding and threatening to withhold payment he already agreed to send unless I keep silent about his bad acting. Classic extortion, and should not be allowed under any circumstance.

Unreal if this is allowed to continue and he can do it to other people. 97% accuracy across over a hundred reports, let's hope this doesn't fall into the 3% because he has friends in high places.

https://i.imgur.com/CVAqfqY.png

You've just been told this isn't a forum issue. If it isn't breaking forum rules then the moderators will not deal with it.

This guy was paid in entirety for his Week #1 of work.

He is acting like I stiffed him out of some money, which is 100% false.

So his only problem is the fact he was booted from my Campaign.

He fails to understand that I was going to boot him even if he hadn't acted up.

His post quality isn't that good, and I replaced him with a Legendary member with better quality posts.

On top of that, he is not doing the forum and favors by spamming the same thing in numerous threads.

he is a full mamber but his don't have any knowledge for bitcoin and other cryptocurrency coin. his all post is spaming post.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1979138.msg43282423#msg43282423

Committing crimes is breaking the forum rules... extortion is a federal and state crime punishable by up to 20 years in prison (in USA). All other countries have anti-extortion laws. I've sent report tickets in, they are all "unhandled" right now. I'm not saying he should be put in prison or anything, but that illegal activity has occurred,  is provable, and is not being dealt with. That is a Meta (talking about the forum) issue if I've ever seen one. I'm agreeing that maybe asking for a little help on how to report somebody is not belonging in the meta thread (probs belongs in beginner and help), but now it has morphed into it. I'll change the title and stuff to make it more appropriate now. I follow all rules.

https://i.imgur.com/CVAqfqY.png

Jeremy, this does not discount the fact that you are extorting people for censorship, which is illegal. Also, Libertarians and the Bitcoin community hate censorship. You can't just simply say sorry for committing a crime like it never happened. Should murders be allowed to say sorry and not face punishment? You threatened me to take down my posts, or else I would not have payment you agreed to pay already. That is criminal extortion/blackmail.

So call the cops...

LOL ;D if it was done in real life, sure. The capabilities of police to unmask this individual on the internet, who probably doesn't even live in the same country... they'd subpoena BitcoinTalk for information requests. There's a lot of barriers there, and I wouldn't want the police knocking down the door of a forum I like a lot, and has provided a lot for me and for many others. But if the forum isn't thwarting provable criminal activity, what has it become? What will the community turn into?

As a Hero Member, you should know: Scams and personal bitching is not moderated. So unless something happened that puts the forum at risk, no one will do anything. However, you could contact staff and see if they will do something about it, which I doubt.

Scams no, selling illegal goods and criminal activity like credit card fraud etc.? Yes, those are moderated. This is exactly the same scenario as in selling illegal goods or credit card fraud. I believe these are rules to limit the liability of BTC from actual criminal activity and police interventions.

Checked the DS section, have to disagree. For the "moderated" part.

What illegal activity is going on there lol?

If you have to ask, it doesn't make sense to talk to you. Report your issue and see if the staff reacts.

Is this the same Bitcasino.io evading their negative trust by registering a new account? (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4616631.msg41687313#msg41687313) people have scammed millions of dollars by using this forum, what makes you think anybody would care about your campaign payments?

I asked because I could probably show you why those things aren't "illegal". Also, I'm not sure what "DS" is an acronym for (digital goods?). Illegal things would include drugs or alcohol (without a license). Breaking ToS of companies is not "illegal" but does open whoever the seller is to civil lawsuits (like that'd ever happen, lol). So like microsoft keys aren't illegal, paypal accounts aren't illegal, discounted giftcards aren't illegal. Until there is proof they were obtained illegally, those things are not illegal and don't fall under the forum rule. However, extortion like the one noted is not only provable, it is also highly illegal in all countries.

Like I said. Had a look and I disagree.

Let's see if staff steps in... like that'd ever happened...

Well, it's always in the best interest of a website/marketplace/forum to operate not only within their own rules, but the laws of the places they allow access to their website as well. To limit liability and prevent investigations, which I assume is why that rule is there to begin with.

I give up, you are right. Has staff commented on it by now?

No, it is still an 'unhandled' report. Hilarious did comment informally here, before I showed the extortion. Basically he said they don't moderate scams. He also seems displeased at the current state of admin... but what happened and is provable by the PM and also the pictures of the PM is that criminal extortion occurred, which is a felony, not just some shitty scam. I'm happy you agree.

So no, any formal comment on the reported PM that was engaged in illegal activity has not been stated.

I mean the core of the community (we have a bit of a spam issue ATM LOL) will become what it has always been.  A community based on open, borderless, permissionless, trustless, decentralized technology we call the blockchain.

The forum is not judge jury and executioner over every contract made on the forum.  Learning how to transact and navigate a borderless, permissionless, trustless technology is not always easy or safe.  But everyone will learn when it is the new norm!!  8)

We're not talking about a contract, we're talking about criminal extortion. Can default trust members put negs on somebody and then tell them to pay up to remove it? Obviously the community will revolt against such an activity, so why is this any different? Why is this person protected to try to extort people into silence? Why is staff not policing the rules about illegal activity? Report is still "unhandled".

https://i.imgur.com/VFfqTyo.png

https://i.imgur.com/CVAqfqY.png

Yes they can, and I would be very surprised if they were banned for it.  They would likely be removed from DT by whomever had them listed, and painted red for days, but the staff in "official" capacity likely wouldn't act.

If you really think this is some felonious assault you need to contact law enforcement.  They would contact theymos with appropriate legal documents and theymos would comply or fight it, both of which I believe he has done before.  Those are the proper channels to follow not complaining about a bad report and banning another user.

Frankly you sound a little butthurt about a single report not being handled and a user not being banned.

Pay up to whom? if you could ask them to pay to the forum I don't see how that could result in a community revolting, would you consider paying the fee for evil IPs as extortion? or maybe paying for copper membership is also an extortion attempt?

But because forum owners charge those fees nobody says anything.
Stop trolling us for one unhandled report, I've got 27 unhandled reports but you don't see me trolling people for them.

Well, yes anybody can do anything. Anybody could go outside with a gun or knife right now and commit murder...obviously it's an available option lol. I don't think anybody argues that.
I suppose I don't understand: Why isn't illegal activity bannable even though the rules state it? Wouldn't it make the website liable, not only to police investigation requests and what headaches that causes, but also to potential aiding charges should there be enough crime?
Filing a police report would not be a problem, but why must it go that far in order to protect other people?

I was giving a hypothetical if a DT member extorts somebody for negative reputation, as in asks them for $100 to remove a negative they gave...not sure what you're going on about copper membership or forum payment or whatever lol. I think you didn't understand what I said, because that response is far out. Diagran as far as I've seen you had some "negative trust removing" thread and then freaked out over getting negs for it. We're talking about documented crime with bulletproof evidence.

Because that's the proper course of action as staff member Flying Hellfish told you above. The forum will not act as judge and jury. If the forum was contacted by law enforcement seeking evidence that's the point they would get involved not because of your refusal to listen to all the people telling you that's how it works.

Damn lol, ya'll are hardcore. I'm not sure I want to get this guy's life ruined over this shit, but if that's literally the only way to have some sort of action by mods. Yikes  :o Why do police reports need to be filed like that lol and mods can't just follow the rules?

So this guy was right about staff eh lol.

Staff members are not the police, admin is not a police officer, if I talk about trust issues is because the admin is in charge of the whole forum including trust system if I bitch about things is because I expect them not to take sides and do favors for their own beloved green members. what you expect from them is not what they are willing to do, can you understand?

If you want to go to the police for $900 then be my guest, people have scammed more but nobody gives a fuck about it. you are the one freaking out right now.

Because....


It's not their job to investigate and make a decision. You've been told over and over.

The value that was missed doesn't concern me too much. It's nothing to sneeze at, but not life changing that's for sure. The extortion is a pretty big deal, to be honest. It is literally a felony committed with aggression, so... Staff members aren't police in the way that they can literally lock somebody in a cage because of a crime, but they could definitely handle that crime in different ways on the forum to make sure the community is at least civil. Because again, if they allow certain crime continuously, I think that makes them liable at a certain point (not a lawyer but have had successful lawsuits/arbitration). Just like a marketplace that allows drugs or whatever to be traded.

but...isn't it their job to enforce the rules? LOL?? Isn't that why they are staff/moderators? LOL? They get a report about a duplicate poster, they investigate it, then take action against that person for duplicate posting... Uh, so what are you even saying lol. They just pick and choose what rules to follow?

It's their job to keep the forum free from spam not to get involved with personal disputes between members. People like you posting multiple threads about the same thing for example would be something for them. Someone having an issue with a campaign manager isn't. It is very simple to understand and two staff members have already told you.

There's actually 33 specific rules of the forum, you can read them in this subforum actually. As you're concerned with multiple threads, which are not duplicates and have different topics of discussion based on where they are located, you may want to refresh yourself with the rules.

So are you saying they choose to ignore all the other rules that aren't about post duplication and things of a spam nature?

No, I'm saying that's the main purpose of moderation.
I am very familiar with the rules. If you think that any post or PM this person has made breaks one of the rules then report them. Again don't expect them to get involved in your dispute over a campaign payment, that's nothing to do with the forum.
As for allegations of illegal activity that should be for law enforcement to determine.

Again, it's not about the payment, the error of payment, or anything like that. I guess you all agree I should go to the cops then. Interesting how that shakes out, if I even engage in it. Strongly considering it now that two people have said that's the best idea.

On a side note, all rules were basically written by Sirius who hasn't been an admin for about 5 years. Inactive since 2014 as well...post wise. Strange little bit of history as we started discussing rules involving illegal things. Sirius also thought that facilitating drug sales was also just about bad reputation, not being extremely illegal. Guess that was before DPR and SR days...

Advertising an illegal product is something that could mean the forum is breaking the law. Someone claiming to have been blackmailed doesn't put the forum in any position and it has no need to investigate or take sides.

Correct. OP, you are expecting  a lot from the staff in my opinion. The staff will act according to the forum rules and not the law. You cannot expect them to go to the house of a scammer and beat them up for cash. :)

If you have proof of what you claim, take the proper route and then only you can recover your loss. In this case, it does not seem to be worth it for the amount of work you will have to do for that but it is your call finally. I hope you get this resolved.

Yeah, I thought extortion was against the forum rules. Maybe it still does, haven't really gotten that confirmed or denied by the moderators who look at PMs. It's like a list of 5 people that are different from sub forum mods or staff.

You mentioned them earlier:


Unofficial list of (official) Bitcointalk.org rules, guidelines, FAQ (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=703657.0)

The only ones that refer to illegal activity are:

8. No threats to inflict bodily harm, death threats.
11. No linking to illegal trading sites.
17. Trading of goods that are illegal in the seller's or buyer's country is forbidden.

and this why your problem is not a meta issue:

19. Possible (or real) scams and Trust ratings are not moderated (to prevent moderation abuse).

It does say it is up to the interpretation of any individual and the rules are not set in stone. I imagined illegal activity could be covered between 11 and 17. Maybe not, though. I know scams aren't moderated, but illegal activity is. Even if it's just goods.

Where does it say that?

It says you can't advertise illegal things here, that's all.

My Positive Trusted feedback speaks for itself, and despite a multitude of recent attacks by this former disgruntled participant, Waffles has become a joke on this forum.

Maybe he should have listened to others and kept his mouth shut, rather than spamming threads, as he is now blacklisted from participating in any other campaigns.

https://i.imgur.com/fZsr5Kp.png

Jeremy, care to comment on the criminal extortion for censorship instead of just randomly posting irrelevant and off topic things? Which you seem to only cherry pick? Which is even more suspicious...why are you trying to hide these things ;D

Uh...why are you posting your cherry picked 'untrusted' feedback?

Let's see what some real users have to say about you...weird, these dates should have been in the same picture, but you removed them?

"Pomerace99   2018-07-26   0.05000000      Tried extorting me for $400 after I paid him for signing up for a task. He said he had my real name and was going to track down my family on Facebook and make up bullshit"

"elsie34   2018-08-05   0.00000000      Retarted campaign manager"

I tagged "Pomerace99" with negative trust for his $1 paypal scheme- which is something that I did for the community.  So no one gets scammed...

In return, he leaves me bullshit negative trust... $400 dollars  LOL...sounds like something your lying self would come up with.

If you truly believe someone with 0 posts, you're even dumber than we all think you are...

https://i.imgur.com/2bIMw9n.png

So nice attempt to bring up my negative trust from someone with no posts and another from someone who I've never even spoken with....

If you had any common sense, you wold stop attempting to ruin my campaigns and focus on yourself.

Maybe adopt a puppy, go online and find a girlfriend or do something else productive.

You're wasting your (no life) having time trying to take me down, which no offense, but it's not going to happen.

I am a valid asset to this forum, you can check my post history.  

I add value, whereas you are forever labeled as a pest and nuisance.

You should work on building up a Brand New account from the ground up, so maybe you can participate in a Campaign down the road.  ;D

Somebody looked into your post history and sent me a little information about it. Is promoting ponzi scams (which you likely had owned, been employed by), considered adding value? Is that trusted?

https://i.imgur.com/Q3BOR04.png

https://i.imgur.com/wLPjJyz.png