Bitcoin Forum

Freedom of speech has a cost and are we paying the price for it in this forum?
Let's not bring any specific name/user if you really know who (a person or a group) I am pointing too.

We absolutely are paying the price with our bleeding eyeballs and wasted time trying to read through all that crap. The actual cost depends on how disciplined one can be about their ignore list and not getting down the rabbit troll hole.

The other part of the cost is scaring sane users away with lunatic ramblings. This creates a feedback loop where less sane content encourages more lunatics. I don't know if we can quantify that. It would be nice though if mods could swing that ban hammer more often on obvious shit that I can't link to due to the local rule LOL.

Ehh....I think I know who you're talking about, but if it's who I think it is, he hasn't been as active as he was for most of the year, so that's an improvement.  Plus all the raging trolls are on my ignore list anyway, so I don't tend to read their threads or comments.  I've suggested people put these assholes on ignore and not to even peek at their posts, but that didn't seem to catch on and I've even broken my own rule occasionally (though not lately).

There is a rule against trolling, but apparently you-know-who's posts don't rise to that level in the moderators' eyes.  And I'm all for freedom of speech on the forum--it's one of the things that attracted me to it in the first place.  So I really don't have a problem with whoever you're talking about doing his little rants and whatnot.  I don't have to look at them if I don't want to, nor does anyone else.  That's what the ignore button is for, no?

Freedom of speech is worth a very high cost.. Untold thousands have paid with their lives trying to ensure its continuity..
Bitcoin is at the heart of freedom of speech.. It is its purpose..

As a newbie reading this thread, I could
1) Try to completely understand exactly what the first two posts mean
2) Leave and never come back, since your community has serious issues
3) Laugh, smile and try a different thread

Are you guys OK?  :D

"Freedom is a light for which many men have died in darkness." The quote is inscribed on the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier of the American Revolution in Philadelphia’s Washington Square.



Excellent reminder eddie, can someone with rep please give him some?

I feel you mate.

But in my opinion, there is no such thing as absolute freedom of speech in public places (like this forum) because your freedom sometimes will violate someone else's rights.

I think it's more related to morality. Is it okay if we stay silent when we know something isn't right? Depends...

-Utilitarian: do we need to calculate the cost/benefit analysis (for the greater good)?
-Negative rights: should "y" be left alone?
-Moral sentiments: how about we put ourselves in the "y" shoes?

I don't know mate... I'm literally nobody in this forum.

Edit: I changed "x" with "y" so you guys can follow this discussion, and avoid some misunderstanding :)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5185042.msg53063807#msg53063807

Freedom of speech is not only worth a high cost, as eddie13 has said, it also pays dividends.  If wasn't for the freedom of speech that trolls enjoy, it would be harder to identify what despicable people they are.

If you're talking about some one who may be blackmailing a member to remove support for a scam-flag, he'll get his in the end.  It's no secret what happened, and it's only a matter of time before his actions are exposed.   

Freedom of speech should come with freedom to hear (or not) otherwise it'd just degrade to useless noise drowning out anything of value. Creating garbage speech is typically much easier than something worth hearing so a single asshole can flood the whole board with nonsense. We do have some tools to that effect (Ignore) but unfortunately they don't work when the forum favors 50-account trolls.

Perhaps we should do it the Bitcoin way and charge a TX fee for each post :)

Do you have an example? Your answer would depend on what you consider "rights".

Morality is subjective but I think utilitarianism is the worst way to plan out morality. "Happiness" is very loosely defined and if you really want to maximize it, you would mass-produce humans, force them to do meth constantly, and enslave them to happiness. A cult of happiness.

What does that mean? Negative rights?

An apt way to look at it, though what happens when you put yourself in the shoes of an unstable or mind-atrophying individual?

It's a bit hard to violate someone elses rights with speech only.. People don't have the right to not be offended, or the right to be provided a safe space where they won't encounter controversial or politically incorrect ideas..


I understand that this board can't maintain absolute free speech..


That would be an interesting dynamic to try somewhere.. It is proven quite effective at reducing spam..
Reminds me of..
"But you must understand, young hobbit. It takes a long time to say anything in old Entish, and we never say anything unless it is worth taking a long time to say."

My apologies for the misunderstanding, but I'm not speaking about the culprit...

Source: https://www.liberalistene.org/knowledge/positive-and-negative-rights/

Let's say (hypothetically) someone knows my personal information (ID and stuffs) if they want to harass me in a legal court for anything then they will need to file a case against me right? And in this case can they file the case keeping their personal information hidden?

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Yes I know there are reasons (these freedom of speech again comes to the equation LOL) for them that they do not do it but there are also reasons that they really need to investigate cases like this and permanently get those cockroaches out from the community. We create rules to protect us not to be a victim of it.

May be we will be able to get rid of some low level self proclaimed lawyers who can not afford to manage some couple hundred fiat shit to come up clean or at-least show that they have a good intention to settle things the correct way.

You got the wrong person :-P
By the way, this ignore button really does not work for some reason. You always has this curious shit to hit the show/hide link and eventually read the shit.

Scams and spams are the things that first come into my mind when we talk about how freedom of speech works here. Yes we can report certain posts, add the merit system, improve our bumping system but we may never limit a member on where they can post or just remove his posting privileges entirely not unless he has been proven to plagiarized a posts. Scams on the other hand is something the DT members always deal every time since it is "unmoderated" scammers can thrive here even if we put a tag on them their posts can still be seen by others who can still be a victim. For the account and merit sellers they also win in this system as all they need to do is to create a dummy account and post what they are offering and provide another contact info outside of the forum so that they can transact out from it. That's the general aspect I see when it comes to having freedom of speech here in the forum.

Freedom of speech is a great deal and whether some like it or not, it's great that we have it here too.
This forum is more and more a view over our society, with good and bad, with people that share our views or not, with people which want to help, to scam or to troll (and so on). It's out choice what we read or skip, what we answer to or not.

Filing a defamation lawsuit anonymously would defeat the whole idea of defamation, since someone's reputation (or damage thereof) is typically a public matter. Depending on jurisdiction this would be either impossible or only allowed in exceptional cases, e.g. involving abuse of minors. Besides trolls don't file lawsuits, particularly broke-ass trolls that beg for "donations" although they can cause other damage if they get a hold of someone's personal information.

But most of that is not subject to forum rules. The few things that they can do on the forum (like doxing) will not be acted upon until after the fact. In other words the troll won't be banned for merely threatening unless it's a threat of violence.

Well said!
Or as a famous quote goes: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" (I had to search for the source: Evelyn Beatrice Hall (https://archive.org/details/cu31924027451032/page/n228)).

Luckily, I also have the "Freedom to click the Ignore button", which nicely balances it out. And I really don't mind the occasional troll that much. By being consequent on the ignore button, I barely see their crap, it's only on a few boards, and it's a small amount compared to the useful posts on this forum. So let them be, ignore them, and stop feeding the creatures!

I dare go a step further, and I don't remember who said it before I did, but: "Being offended is a choice!". Google brings me to the Chicago Tribune, but it's literally tells me it's unavailable in Europe.
I don't think I've ever been offended by anything on this forum. If you're offended by someone on the internet, you give them far too much credit! To quote myself:

I've heard something along the lines of, "others should not take responsibility for your reactions."

There is always a common denominator for your actions, thoughts and desires. You.

I am sorry, but you do not have the right to "feel" a certain way. There is no such thing as a "safe space" in the real world.

I have somewhat speculated that the liberal indoctrination of US campuses is the result of the Chinese government trying to make the US unable to fight in wars, and overall less competitive economically when its citizens are unable to cope with someone disagreeing with their ideas.

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If someone is a troll, you should ignore them and they will eventually go away. Attempting to silence a troll will only reflect negatively on you. Any attempt to silence someone with an opposing view should be condemned in the strongest way possible, even if you disagree with what they are saying.

If someone is unable or unwilling to debate in good faith, there is no reason to debate them in the first place.

The price of free speech is not high or low because its value is infinite. There are crazies in every internet forum, and having a few crazies in this forum should not deter many people from participating.

That has nothing to do with this forum. Stop appealing to emotions. More people will lose their lives while we tolerate this virtue signalling and selective use of "freedom of speech" nonsense by libtards. No wonder this place has become a collective garbage pile of baboons.

This. Get fucking educated.

Did you get hit in the head?

I don't know, mind to teach me? ::)

Notice Lauda the undisputed king of scammers and extortionists + shady escrow + laudas front man SUCHMOON = THE MOST VOCAL about crushing free speech??

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5170789.0

Notice how this undeniable scammer has tried to crush those that whistle blow on his prior deeds has tried to use the trust system itself to silence them??

Suchmoon that fat slob who we have continuously destroyed in public debate also crying for it to come to an end??

They are only interested in preventing the TRUTH being spoken.

We issue the challenge again BRING ONE CENTRAL POINT OF OURS YOU CAN DEMONSTRATE IS INCORRECT

This forum CORRECTLY terms trolling as continuously proliferating INCORRECT or conclusively debunked statements as TRUE.

Lauda being a scammer who uses the trust system to attempt to silence whistle blowing is UNDENIABLE.

Suchmoon being a retard who keeps touting the merit metric as valid after stating " good poster"  and " bad poster " are meaningless terms without strict definition and criteria  is UNDENIABLE

Suchmoon making claims such as

It is foolish and incorrect to state that some of the 99.87%  members of this forum are capable of making posts as good as some of the posts of 0.13% (top 200 merit holders).


The undeniable scammers and their supporters want the truth to be silenced whilst they get on with milking this board for all the best rev streams.

Sorry NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

Debunk peoples arguments and statements in public and demonstrate they are untrue, or get back to hiding under your fucking rocks you scum bags.

We own you and meta board now. Start to notice how we will remain on topic and relevant (within the rules) but make sure your VIRTUE SIGNALLING and hypocritical bullshit is called out at every single opportunity or when and where we like.

Debunk any point we have just made ......haha oh wait you can't

" see more trolling" - no examples of central points they can debunk
" see more lies"  - no examples of central points they can debunk
" see this is exactly why we can not have free speech" - no examples of central points they can debunk

Never will you see these scamming dregs DARE to get specific and debunk and central points we make.

Notice how suchmoon is always found back lauda??  notice how suchmoon tried to stab theymos in the back for asking for some people to exclude that undeniable scammer from DT?  scumbags the pair of them.

Freedom of speech is paramount to this movement, only proliferating conclusively debunked information should be moderated (outside of the off topic and irrelevant) ...that and serious hate crimes that is it. Everything else is for public debate and should remain.

You want to stop people making statements that fall within the rules - then debunk those statements conclusively and just hammer that quote it each time.

Crying for bans, ending free speech, trolling, mod bias  =  weasels all trying to hide their past.  Read about them and the reasons they want free speech prevented here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5170789.0

Yes mr. cryptohunter, I am completely against freedom of speech when it is used by virtue signallers like eddie13 et. al, and libtards as they mostly only advocate it when it works in their favour. Not that that has anything to do with allowing any bullshit on this forum.
What are you gonna do about it kiddo? ::)

We are simply going to highlight that freedom of speech must be permitted within the rules here full stop. Short of serious hate crimes then there can be no reason to even debate the price Scammers and scammer supporters are suffering at the hands of those that correctly and rightly enjoy punishing them.

eddie13 is not a Scammer like you are, nor a trust abuser, so we feel he should advocate support for it where he wants to.  Regardless of what a scammer like you says about it. Got it now??

Anything he does in opposition to your approval has a high probability of being optimal for all other honest members lauda worm tongue.

What are you gonna do about it scammer? :):):)

Tag and flag anyone who's posting lies about me as has been done before. I have always won, and I know that that must hurt a lot. I am truly sorry for being this awesome. :-* FYI, I'm still debating whether virtue signallers warrant a type-0 flag, it just might end up like those account sales. I'm out. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Freedom of speech between Lauda and The-One-Above-All is live now. Enjoy it fellas :-D

Lesson: It always ends up with trolling :-p

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Will be locking the topic in the next 24 hours.

Haha RUNS AWAY .... haha

Present the lies you scamming piece of croatian dirt. You will not because you can NOT.

This is why the lemons flag is worthless... Now lauda says if he thinks you are virtue signalling you get a lemons flag.

Watch out eddie ... lauda says fall in line of get a flag.

Notice how your flags and tags do NOTHING to us at all LaudaM. We continue to post observable instances of your scamming when and when it is on topic and relevant.

Freedom of  speech here to stay.

Sorry if seeing observable instances presented of your own prior behaviors is SUFFERING.. :(


Quick scream trolling ( without any evidence and will not provide any when called to present it) then lock the thread. Be a good little scammer supporter royce777. Lock it now we came to crush the scammers here calling for free speech to be reduced further.

Love turning up at these scammer supporting pity parties ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9FYBjSc3cU

Sir I respect freedom of speech and giving the 24hrs time prior to lock is the sign that I really do not want to cut the line without leaving anything on the table that will look like I am not allowing to speak freely.

By the way, I take offense when my username gets misspelled :-(
It's Royse777 sir :-)

Sorry don't what to be left out, just want to drop my comment before thread gets locked, atleast i participated.

Yeh to freedom of speech 🕺🕺😁

http://archive.is/tFnNS


Lauda, you seriously make me LMFAO..


I don't really want any drama but I don't think that I'm the one it would end badly for..

I've been sick as fuck so I haven't even posted in almost 3 weeks, I say basically "I like freedom of speech" in my first post back, and get jumped by Lauda, and threatened to get flagged?
Pretty hilarious..


Please don't :(


lolololololololollollolololololoololololollololololololololololololol


You know what, screw it, let's have some drama..

@Lauda I hereby challenge you to a 0.25BTC bet that you will not get a flag supported against me for advocating freedom of speech.. @ 1 week after your flag creation, so it has time to settle in ya know.. Let everyone get some time to support or oppose..
DarkStar_ escrow agreeable to you?

https://media1.tenor.com/images/e571161d930a0401b05c74f7305cbcd6/tenor.gif

I'm keeping an eye on IsLaudaStillOnDT.tk (http://islaudastillondt.tk/) if this Flag happens.

Can I borrow an sMerit from someone? Please send it to this ^ post.
I promise when I will have available merits then I will send one sMerit on a post of your choice :-D

theymos is a heartless creature :-P (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5178503.msg52252868#msg52252868)

Requested will be accepted if only Lauda accepts the challenge :-P
Come on Lauda! You are adorable :-)

Quoted for reference of the drama show :-D

Sigh.. Lauda backed down so I guess you can lock it, but really this is the sort of stuff everyone should get to see and comment on IMO..
Locking it will just protect Lauda from public scrutiny..



I guess the challenge is denied :(

@Royse777: Can you add an "r" to the title? It took me this long to notice "Feedom (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Feedom)".

It's fine. It's a subliminal message trying to condition us into paying a fee for speech.

Grrrrr!!! (To LoyceV for stealing my thread :-) )

I think you and Lauda should have a drink together may be you can some beep beep beep ...
https://i.imgur.com/Ai3Nf9i.png



Damn it man! How stupid I am in delivering my speech :-P
Okay no "Grrrr" for you now :-)

I did not have such thought though however it seemed a perfect fit :-P

aka reeeeedom of speech

Now you have to keep your promise  :D




https://i.imgur.com/SnyLTnR.png

Thank you.

https://i.imgur.com/5uGCD2U.png
^ This should make you happy? :-P

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Edit:
I now have plenty of sMerits, the GOD heard my prayers :-P

Give me a link of a good post of your choice to repay the sMerit you spent earlier.

Cheers.

Sometimes the freedom of speech here becomes the clash of the titans.

https://i.imgur.com/mAgMmfP.png

Nice punchline to..
I got it ;)

Only if I am the pleasuree in the leopard pants..


Like..
https://i.imgur.com/xEUxaYl.png

Or..
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/fahf-X2uk7CmC6ZxcH8p0Q3qBLMGePklTQyz3kP992S1FsdHqZaD0bG2_ETrBo1pNMk=h500

???

Either or tho really.. That's cool..

It is the modern liberal that is against free speech. For example, a poll recently found (https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2019/october/new-poll-shows-millennial-support-for-constitutional-free-speech-declining-nbsp) that 60% of Millennials, who are largely liberal, belive that "hate speech" should be made illegal. Free speech is nearly non-existant on college campuses. There are often what amounts to riots and other efforts attempting to shout down speakers whose viewpoints don't conform to liberal ideology at UC Berkley whose student body is overwhelmingly liberal.

Conservatives tend to not try to impose their beliefs on others, and rely on the belief that everyone is free to make their own decisions. The guiding principals behind the WSJ opinion section, which is very conservative is "Free People, Free Markets", and 'free people' requires free speech. 

*Weird flex*. Liberalism is a disease.

Have some merits my darling.