Title: your confidence in bitcoin Post by: grondilu on March 31, 2011, 02:54:56 PM I'm curious to see the result of this one
Title: Re: your faith in bitcoin Post by: Atlas_ on March 31, 2011, 02:56:58 PM Faith? I don't believe in such a concept. I rather just say it's up to the individual will of its users. I will go as far as to argue that probability of success cannot be reasonably determined.
Title: Re: your faith in bitcoin Post by: no to the gold cult on March 31, 2011, 03:02:58 PM Faith? I don't believe in such a concept. I rather just say it's up to the individual will of its users. I will go as far as to argue that probability of success cannot be reasonably determined. Faith, it's certainly an overrated concept. For me 'Faith' is just a fancy word for 'opinion', and that's fair enough. In my opinion bitcoin will go very far. Title: Re: your faith in bitcoin Post by: Alex Beckenham on March 31, 2011, 03:05:52 PM I want it to go far, but am sometimes a little afraid that it won't. However I also think that this fear is mostly irrational.
Title: Re: your faith in bitcoin Post by: RodeoX on March 31, 2011, 03:07:11 PM I'm no believer in faith either. However it seems to me all you need to create a currency is something hard to counterfeit and a belief in it's value. So, faith is important. After all dollars are just paper, and gold is just a shinny rock. All value beyond that is based on our belief that it will still have value tomorrow.
Title: Re: your faith in bitcoin Post by: gigabytecoin on March 31, 2011, 06:07:48 PM Somehow I doubt anybody on this forum will vote for the last two options. If you do, you shouldn't be here.
Title: Re: your faith in bitcoin Post by: Hal on March 31, 2011, 06:24:44 PM From The Simpsons, "Homer at the Bat":
Quote Hypnotist: You are all very good players Team: We are all very good players. Hypnotist: You will beat Shelbyville. Team: We will beat Shelbyville. Hypnotist: You will give 110 percent. Team: That's impossible no one can give more than 100 percent. By definition that's the most any one can give. Title: Re: your faith in bitcoin Post by: no to the gold cult on March 31, 2011, 10:10:32 PM Answer #4: People are buying dope with it, at good prices too. It's already real.
Title: Re: your faith in bitcoin Post by: Distribution on March 31, 2011, 10:42:56 PM I think that the existence of Bitcoin has brought about and will continue to bring about good things. It's kind of like when Ron Paul ran for president. I worked hard to get him elected. But when primary day came, we were all severely disappointed at his showing. I knew a couple people who got really depressed. But I was so happy that he ran. I knew that his run had started a fire, that the idea of liberty would start to catch and the establishment would be shaken. The modern tea party movement (despite being hijacked) started with his campaign, auditing the Fed became a mainstream issue because of the support he gathered, and I can certainly say that his run was a significant turning point in my own life. So what do I mean? We may not be using Bitcoin 50 years from now (although we may) but it's certainly revolutionary enough that it may lay the groundwork for a more widely used virtual decentralized anonymous currency.
Title: Re: your faith in bitcoin Post by: Ian Maxwell on March 31, 2011, 10:56:35 PM I feel like "I have my doubts" isn't a great way of putting it---it makes it sound like I don't think Bitcoin is a a solid idea. I actually do think so, in that I think it has as much chance of succeeding as any particular solid idea, which is not that high.
It's rare that you come across free lunches: investments with a high chance of success usually don't have a very high payout for success, and vice versa. Bitcoin is no exception. If it becomes generally accepted, the payout is enormous: not only will we few have dramatically improved the world, but we will all be fabulously wealthy. It would be too much to ask that this was also likely to happen. A 1% chance or so is more than enough, as long as the downside isn't too far down. I think of it as something like investing in a startup or a high-yield bond. Title: Re: your faith in bitcoin Post by: gigitrix on April 01, 2011, 01:21:33 AM I've purchased some and hold them, as I consider the risk:reward ratio to be one of the safest bets I've ever seen. But only a fool would say this isn't a bet. I also intend to invest my time into providing bitcoin related services, so I suppose I'm going all in really :D
Title: Re: your faith in bitcoin Post by: dduane on April 03, 2011, 01:04:20 PM There is a paradox here. In order for your investments in bitcoin to become worth something, it is important to spend some of them. Currencies function and take on value because they are utilized by a community to exchange value. If we all just hoard them waiting for them to take on value, we'll be waiting a long, long time. I encourage everyone who wants bitcoins to take on value to set aside a good amount of your holdings for spending of some sort or another, whether it be donations, gaming, or good old exchange of goods and services. Gavin is doing a brilliant thing for the community of bitcoin users by offering the bitcoin faucet, and ensuring that the faucet's disbursements go out to as many DIFFERENT people as possible. This is why I've set up Bitcoin Bonus, I want to be able to get bitcoins out to as many people as possible.
Title: Re: your faith in bitcoin Post by: grondilu on April 03, 2011, 01:38:22 PM Don't worry. Even if everyone hoards bitcoin, at some point they will have a strong incentive to sell them. And there will be some kind of a competition that will take place. The less greedy will sell first. There would be no point in hoarding for ever, unless you want to give your bitcoins to your children after you're dead.
I own a few thousands bitcoins. I can tell you that if one bitcoin was worth 1,000 euros, I would sell mines for sure, so that I can buy a house or something. Some people would be less greedy and would sell their bitcoins at 500 EUR/BTC, and some other even less greedy. When people start selling, they stabilize or even lower the price of bitoin, thus adjusting it to its true value. I do actually sell bitcoins on regular basis, because I think there are better investments than cash anyway, and because I need national currencies to eat and pay my rent. But I totally think there is no problem with hoarding whatsoever. Title: Re: your faith in bitcoin Post by: Alex Beckenham on April 03, 2011, 02:34:53 PM Title: Re: your faith in bitcoin Post by: Gavin Andresen on April 03, 2011, 02:59:42 PM I just bought two Boston Red Sox tickets from my friend Baer using bitcoins. They really do work nicely for grassroots, person-to-person transactions, and the beautiful thing is you don't need a lot of people accepting them in one place to get started.
Title: Re: your faith in bitcoin Post by: grondilu on April 03, 2011, 03:07:30 PM I just bought two Boston Red Sox tickets from my friend Baer using bitcoins. They really do work nicely for grassroots, person-to-person transactions, and the beautiful thing is you don't need a lot of people accepting them in one place to get started. Yeah, as I tried to explain here (http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4920.0), bitcoin starts to be usefull with only three people. Title: Re: your faith in bitcoin Post by: grondilu on April 18, 2011, 07:09:56 PM up for newbies. Please vote.
Title: Re: your faith in bitcoin Post by: Jaime Frontero on April 19, 2011, 04:45:46 AM interesting factiod: according to this poll:
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4407.0 ... i am the oldest person here, at 59. faith? nope. but i'll tell ya, i've missed a few boats in my life (caught some too) - and this Bitcoin thing just has that feel. it's the kind of thing i don't want to look back on and realize that it was yet another biggie i didn't see coming. so call it a hunch, if you like. besides, i'm a geek. it doesn't take much of an excuse to get me screwing around with hardware and software... Title: Re: your faith in bitcoin Post by: gigabytecoin on April 19, 2011, 08:28:15 AM interesting factiod: according to this poll: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4407.0 ... i am the oldest person here, at 59. faith? nope. but i'll tell ya, i've missed a few boats in my life (caught some too) - and this Bitcoin thing just has that feel. it's the kind of thing i don't want to look back on and realize that it was yet another biggie i didn't see coming. so call it a hunch, if you like. besides, i'm a geek. it doesn't take much of an excuse to get me screwing around with hardware and software... I am about half your age. I have been on "the internet" for about half of my life or basically ever since there were HTML pages to look at. One thing is for sure, bitcoin definitely has that "winning feel". Title: Re: your faith in bitcoin Post by: fetokun on April 19, 2011, 08:39:21 AM Voted "I have my doubts, but globally I think it worths a shot" but I'm pretty sure that "it's the best digital currency at present time".
Title: Re: your faith in bitcoin Post by: gigabytecoin on April 19, 2011, 08:40:51 AM Voted "I have my doubts, but globally I think it worths a shot" but I'm pretty sure that "it's the best digital currency at present time". Then why did you vote for the former? Title: Re: your faith in bitcoin Post by: fetokun on April 19, 2011, 08:43:21 AM Because I have my doubts since bitcoin's success is not depending solely on being the best digital currency.
Title: Re: your faith in bitcoin Post by: TiagoTiago on April 19, 2011, 11:08:27 PM I might have overstated my confidence a tad with my vote, but Bitcoin kinda works like the placebo effect, the more you believe in it the more it actually works, so i'll keep my positive thinking.
Title: Re: your faith in bitcoin Post by: Distribution on April 19, 2011, 11:17:46 PM I might have overstated my confidence a tad with my vote, but Bitcoin kinda works like the placebo effect, the more you believe in it the more it works, so i'll keep my positive thinking. Kind of like Federal Reserve notes. I'm pretty happy with what I've been able to do with it so far, now I'm just saving up to buy Atlas's dog (http://www.biddingpond.com/item.php?id=407). Title: Re: your faith in bitcoin Post by: grondilu on May 27, 2011, 08:49:24 PM up for newbies Title: Re: your faith in bitcoin Post by: RyNinDaCleM on May 27, 2011, 11:47:08 PM Well... I'm a newb, and I voted "I have my doubts", But I also have done the F@H thing, and at least this potentially pays out for the work done, and wear/tear on my hardware.
Title: Re: your faith in bitcoin Post by: phillipsjk on May 28, 2011, 12:31:11 AM None of the poll options really express how I feel about bitcoin. I feel it will become very successful, then fail in the medium term. Converting all of my USD (I live in Canada) to bitcoin is about all I want to do with it at the moment. I would not be comfortable keeping my retirement savings in Bitcions.
IMO, BitCoin will fail under the following conditions:
I have reason to believe that all 3 may happen in my lifetime.
Title: Re: your faith in bitcoin Post by: Basiley on May 28, 2011, 01:22:18 AM nice idea, but insecure, by EC-usage.
not so much computing resources saved, but timing and mathematically questionable security of EC- signatures/cipher. Title: Re: your faith in bitcoin Post by: grondilu on May 28, 2011, 01:24:59 AM nice idea, but insecure, by EC-usage. not so much computing resources saved, but timing and mathematically questionable security of EC- signatures/cipher. What? Is ECDSA weak? Title: Re: your faith in bitcoin Post by: Basiley on May 28, 2011, 01:55:50 AM nice idea, but insecure, by EC-usage. not so much computing resources saved, but timing and mathematically questionable security of EC- signatures/cipher. What? Is ECDSA weak? so, yes, i had NO faith in ECDSA and rest EC-related things. Absolutely. talking about scientists opinion , prognosis and field practice impact, read crypto papers/newpapers/etc. Title: Re: your faith in bitcoin Post by: FreeMoney on May 28, 2011, 01:57:45 AM nice idea, but insecure, by EC-usage. not so much computing resources saved, but timing and mathematically questionable security of EC- signatures/cipher. Lol, how are you going to do a timing attack? Title: Re: your faith in bitcoin Post by: frozen on May 28, 2011, 02:00:06 AM Faith is a rejection of reason and evidence. Bitcoin as money is logically sound, and the evidence so far suggests it will succeed.
These are not guarantees, but so far I haven't seen anything to suggest that it will fail. Unlike fiat currency which is backed by the violence of the government, bitcoin is backed by the cooperative competition of the internet. Title: Re: your faith in bitcoin Post by: Basiley on May 28, 2011, 02:13:51 AM nice idea, but insecure, by EC-usage. not so much computing resources saved, but timing and mathematically questionable security of EC- signatures/cipher. Lol, how are you going to do a timing attack? EC cause mathematical concerns about safety at least. and talking about exploiting of implementations, timing attack isn't only one. Faith is a rejection of reason and evidence. Bitcoin as money is logically sound, and the evidence so far suggests it will succeed. "so far" isn't enough in that case.These are not guarantees, but so far I haven't seen anything to suggest that it will fail. Unlike fiat currency which is backed by the violence of the government, bitcoin is backed by the cooperative competition of the internet. actually, talking about money[of ANY kind]/valuables is SERIOUS business. usually. "i haven't seen it !!" (c) from carhit pedestrian explanation. note: 90% of security activity is not dealing with problems, but eleminating them BEFORE they outbreak into catastrophe ! ie, evading crisis is best way to deal with it as best way to win war is w/o right war. Title: Re: your faith in bitcoin Post by: liberty on May 28, 2011, 02:16:22 AM What this poll tells us is that no one would get out of the game.
Title: Re: your faith in bitcoin Post by: frozen on May 28, 2011, 03:10:37 AM Faith is a rejection of reason and evidence. Bitcoin as money is logically sound, and the evidence so far suggests it will succeed. "so far" isn't enough in that case.These are not guarantees, but so far I haven't seen anything to suggest that it will fail. Unlike fiat currency which is backed by the violence of the government, bitcoin is backed by the cooperative competition of the internet. actually, talking about money[of ANY kind]/valuables is SERIOUS business. usually. "i haven't seen it !!" (c) from carhit pedestrian explanation. note: 90% of security activity is not dealing with problems, but eleminating them BEFORE they outbreak into catastrophe ! ie, evading crisis is best way to deal with it as best way to win war is w/o right war. Evidence that doesn't exist is irrelevant. "So far" acknowledges the uncertainty, the potential, that evidence might surface to change my mind and declare bitcoin a failure. This has not happened. With that said, I am not selling any of my gold or silver holdings in exchange for btc. Sure - it would be nice if reward or success of any new venture could be guaranteed and thus the risk eliminated. You need to decide for yourself what your risk tolerance is. If you think you can walk on the sidewalk without getting hit by a car, then by all means. But if you're worried about the car, then do what you need to do to mitigate that risk. If you're walking on the sidewalk, you are probably not concerned about getting hit by an airplane, even though it has a probability > 0. If the risk of the plane or the car are too much for you, get off the sidewalk. Title: Re: your confidence in bitcoin Post by: grondilu on May 28, 2011, 03:40:29 AM The word "faith" seems way more connoted than I thought. So I replaced it with "confidence".
Title: Re: your confidence in bitcoin Post by: Frozenlock on May 28, 2011, 03:45:43 AM Almost same characteristics as gold.
In addition: -You can have backup. (Good luck finding a lost gold coin) -It's waaaaaay more easy to make a transaction with anyone on the planet This thing will change the world! :P Title: Re: your confidence in bitcoin Post by: billyjoeallen on May 28, 2011, 04:04:56 AM If you could buy lottery tickets for a penny, how many would you buy?
if something has a 1% chance at returning 10,000 times your bet, is it a good bet? Hell yeah it is!!!! Title: Re: your confidence in bitcoin Post by: billyjoeallen on May 28, 2011, 04:07:19 AM if you could buy lottery tickets for a penny, how many would you buy?
If you had a 1% chance at winning 10,000 times your bet, is it a good bet? Hell yeah, it is! |