Bitcoin Forum

I haven't seen a thread in this section with a discussion about poker hands played in various Texas Holdem games by our members.

Few times I wanted to share a tricky hand to discuss the in and outs of poker, with fellow poker players from around the world, but to my surprise, there was no thread for this, at least an active one.

Additionally, yesterday I saw a few hands shared in the WO thread and thought that this is the right time to start a thread where anybody would be able to share poker hands and discuss them.

Let's make a few rules:

1. Only Texas Holdem hands, but feel free to talk about poker (texas holdem), as a whole too, strategies, etc. This has not to be a hand per se.
2. No spamming or off-topics not related to poker, let's focus on hands.
3. The best hands will be added to the opening post.

like I said, I have seen a great hand in the WO thread yesterday shared by @BitcoinGirl.Club, so maybe let's start from this one.

HAND NR.1

Poker is such a beautiful game because this is a game of skills and this hand, was very tricky to play.
I understand your frustration, but many times the river card would bring the nuts to the opponent, anyways this time the odds (luck  ;)) were on his site from the beginning.

You haven't said too much how this hand was played out exactly, but TBH just after the flop, your hand had fewer odds compared to his.
There were still 11 cards in the deck which could improve his hand, compared to only 4 cards on your site, it's like 3:1 on his favor.
Not mention, that if on the turn Jack or 10 would hit the deck, then he would have another draw to the straight and even more outs, but luckily there was a 6.
So, he was not blindly betting with a pair of queens, only had a flush draw with the possibility for an inside straight draw, which gives almost 14 outs that could make his hand better in the best scenario.

When you see such flop, then you have to play calm and be prepaid to throw away two pairs or even a straight, because there is a huge possibility for a flush.
So, in my opinion, you are not unlucky, only need to play more and gain more experience. With such flop, I would try to keep the pot size small and control the action if possible.
I don know how betting looked like pre and post-flop, so it is hard to discuss the play further.

Many times one will lose with 9, 8 suited when having AA, KK because this is the best hand (at least for me) to play against such type of nuts pre-flop, it gives such a massive amount of draws and possibilities when opponent end up having a pair of Aces on the river, against a flush draw, straight, three of kinds or two pairs at least, exactly like in your game. With two AA one has literally only two outs. Mostly stays at one pair of AA such as started pre-flop, but sometimes you will see such flop like here and have to adjust the play accordingly.

My suggestion: start counting outs, try to calculate odds when playing and of course play more not less  ;) :D.

Here you are ;) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5214582

I was unlucky yesterday. Didn't capture a screenshot though. I had A,8 on my hands while on the table, it was A,8,3,6 till the fourth. Since nothing higher card was possible in general (it could be, could be three of a kind which I took risk), the fifth card was 10 which ruined me. The other hand had A,10. I always got screwed with the fifth.

Just like I said:


The thread you quoted is not active from almost 6 weeks, so I wasn't able to find it on the first few pages of the gambling discussion board.

But thank you for the link and please don't tell me to use the search function because it never worked for me  ;).


The last comment in this linked thread is from March 19. 2020.

Flush is really a powerful combination in a Texas holdem, beating straights and three of a kind. The only unexpected entrant would be a Full house.
In the illustrated bet even if the 4th card would have been a 6 of diamonds and the last turned up to be a 3 of any kind, other player would have won with a turn of events.

Damn you got there first. But yeah, there's at least two threads also already dedicated to Poker, they're not much discussions there but I've seen some and you should join the weekly tourneys too, get them all discussing. I've dropped out basically, as I can't really find the time to play, though the bigger reason is that I'm really shitty at it and will only be throwing money at it.

I know at least 2 of the guys there are dead serious good.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5217547.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5236603.0

I think whatever amount of bet you use he will continue to CALL because the card is QQ and K is already there plus he has Q diamond of course he will come.I want to ask why you CALL with K3 you should FOLD and wait for a better card.
no offense but such a card is not worth playing. ;D

"Powerful" may not be the best term for a flush mate. I think you'll naturally aim for a flush if your cards have the same suit, not like BitcoinGirl.Club's case. Also, it is risky if you have only one matched card since the opponent can also have the same suit with the higher number. The cursing explains the situation very well, lol.

dude Q is the number three higher in holdem and K already there and the only 1 can beat Q is with A.
this turn only have 2 player that probability he has A is lower than 10%, he just wanted he has K not diamond :D

Getting flush with poker is uncommon, actually it is a pretty great card to have you won't feel scared to call especially if you have a two of a kind plus the 3 on the table you'll feel safe about it. With the cards like dealt like that, having two pairs with 4 of the same kind ( diamonds ) is scary, one diamond is enough to make a flush, If I were holding those cards I'd fold them. That's a four of a kind on the table, if it happens that you have the ace of diamonds then you will beat the opponents hand no matter how high his cards are.

I'm playing Texas Holdem for last two days on swcpoker. I had little knowledge on this, however, I lost 2mBTC so far. It was a bad day today morning. I had gone all in with K top flush but unlucky that other side had the same of A top flush.

That part of my comment is about the general case, not only about the above hand.

If you talk solely about the BitcoinGirl.Club's case, it was rare, four cards ♦, and Q♦ opponent. just like what you said.

Watch this for more lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wX_mM5lyCA

PS: flush is strong but not that strong.

I played a lot of poker in college days however, with job and all, it's been a while since I last played poker. Then I saw Yahoo's thread on SwC poker tournament. I joined right away and it's been a first time I played online poker. So from last 4 weeks, I am playing poker once again, relieving my college days.

I have played like 1000+ hands in last 25 days, maybe more. But I will always remember one hand. It was on SwC Cash Table. I got Q10s (diamonds). 8d, Ah and 5d were dealt on flop. Although I didn't have any strong hand, I raised. 3 players folded while two called. Jd was dealt on turn. I hit the flush. I was sure that no one will have stronger hand if non-diamond card would deal on river so I raised twice. One of the two remaining opponent folded while other called. Now river card was dealt and it was Ac. Opponent had first turn and he raised to the pot amount. Now it was my analysis time, I made the use of my Time Bank and thought of all possibilities. I was sure about one thing, the opponent don't have AA because he was very calm in pre-flop. Players usually go wild in pre-flop if they get AA. So only possibility was Full House. I was continuously thinking is he holding two 5 or two 8 or one Ace and one 5/8. What made him playing so calm before seeing river card. Finally I reached the conclusion that he's holding one Ace and he's raising on 3 of a kind hand. So I went all-in and he went all-in too. Bang! He got K9s (diamonds) and I had Q10s (diamonds). That was the most unexpected result for me.

He was one of the best player I ever faced so far. Not giving away the hint that he had flush on river by playing soft and then raising on river to mislead the opponent.

it's pretty common for people to slow-play flushes in that spot then bet the river. K-high flush vs Q-high flush, always a tough cooler.

i approach with caution when the board pairs up like that on the river. i'm not folding there but i'm likely just to call rather than re-raise all in.


granted, it's been dead for 6 weeks. :P

i was gonna pull up a few interesting hands i played recently but i've only been playing on SwC and my hand history wasn't saving. the in-software hand history is impossible to parse for starting hands. even if you can find a hand you're looking for, you have to manually replay and transcribe it yourself. :(

oh well, it's saving now. i'll share some hands later.

Exactly, I think also that slow play is the best way to play such hands, but sometimes it's just hard to believe that indeed he has a draw or hit the flush on the river and is not trying to bluff from the beginning. The best-case scenario is to have nothing, so there is no moral dilemma of going all in, only to check the filling of a bluff  :D, but the situation is totally different, when you have something, like in HAND NR.1 were @BitcoinGirl.Club had two pairs.

Sometimes, when you play too many hands with the same players, they will finally remember, that you try to play such draws slowly and are likely to fold when re-raise and all-ins come to action on the turn or river. Many regs will try to use it against you and start to bluff more often. I like to fool them into such play and call these costly all in bluffs  ;). I try to change my play constantly and sometimes even show stupid bluffs or calls to let them think that I am not reg or good tight-aggressive player, only a random fish because they will play differently with such opponent.

I personally also like to use such flush draws for bluffs and to scare out opponents on the turn or river. Of course, everything depends on betting, position, signs I see from other players involved, with how many I am playing such pot and so on. Still, there are going to be times when you make all the right decisions, but still lose in the end. This is the beauty of poker.

Poker does depend on luck and somewhat on skills too. You could go all-in every round and end up making thousands or you could end up broke. Though I still do believe luck plays more vital role over here.
The guy playing with pocket Qs was actually smart enough to not fold. Not sure why bitcoingirl is surprised over here. Just because a K poped up in the flop and he was still playing? The dude had a chance of getting 3 oak and a flush!

Unlucky. It was a nice draw of cards until the chances of the other party having a flush actually became a higher cause of the river. The other guy was probably betting on the Q pair but then bam, river turned up and suddenly increased his odds. That's a 1/4 chance of actually drawing it. The guy was probably half bluffing and half pushing though, he had a pair of Q's which is not that strong nor weak, hence his chances are at most in the middle.

Probably after the flop, his mind turned since he just needed 1 more card for his flush. Probably the reason why he still pushed since even if he just called, he still has the Q pair to back up to. Besides, his hand was the pairs of Q itself, giving him a lot of room to work with tbh. Probably just counted his chances and bluffed his way halfway and then played to win by the end.

To know exactly or at least to try to figure out what the opponent was counting for and his play, we need more information on how the betting looked like pre-flop and later post-flop, on the turn and river. These details about this particular hand were not shared fully in the original post, so we can only try to make our best guess here. If he shoved all-in with his QQ hand pre-flop, then is obvious that he blindly counted on his pair, so all depends on betting to be able to figure out his play here.


Indeed this is a common mistake and very costly mistake because many not experienced players will shove all-in in such a situation. I made such mistakes a few times also and learned very fast that you have to hold the Ace (best hand), to do this. Many times I called with 9 or Even a king to be beaten by higher card. Such mistakes start already pre-flop because many players play too many hands and they bet with 5, 9 off suite pre-flop, see a flush draw post-flop and bet to the end to see a higher card with the same color on the river.

This is also the reason why so many players play every Ace hand because the flush is a common outcome in poker. Here are the exact probabilities in Texas Holdem:

https://i.imgur.com/SUYFyxW.png
https://www.888poker.com/how-to-play-poker/hands/flush-poker-hand-ranking/

As you can see on the deck with only 2 cards there are almost 20% chances of winning, which is a lot.

Just found this thread and let me share you what exactly I had in mind and how I moved forward as the hand was progressing. I can not remember all correctly however as far as I can recall this is how I progressed:

Pre flop
Seeing K3 I gone with my regular bet amount I think I called BB

Flop
Since I have now KK33 I gone with higher amount, I think half of the chips I had in the table. Two pairs with K so you do not doubt much of course. But the other guy called!

The Turn
Since the other guy called I was thinking may be he had a flash but I have already invested a lot of chips and god damn it, it's KK33. I had other thought in mind that the guy is bluffing since he has almost double chips on board than me so he can have the luxury. The only way to test it is to bet an unusual amount and give him a shock. So I gone ALL IN!

But I got shocked when he called that too. And I was feeling fucked as well. I was just hoping the best for me.

River
When I saw diamond then I was pretty sure that the guy had a flash now if he had not in the first three card from Flop. But still I was hoping the best for me.

And finally when the card showed I felt fucked up! The guy was just taking chance with his QQ and got lucky. He was not in the game before River round. Bluffed with calling my ALL IN and he won!

Fucked!!!

I was waiting for your comment and haven't sent you a PM, because I thought that almost all members use @Loycev announcement service to check the post, threads they are mentioned/quoted.

If you don't use it and don't know what I am talking about, then here is the link: LoyceV's alternative for Piggy's @mention notification bot. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5209773.msg53360035#msg53360035) And now I finally welcome you in this thread  :D.


I understand that you have played only against this one opponent from the start of this hand?

If yes, then K3 is a good enough hand to play with indeed, because heads up play is very tricky and different hand rules have to be applied, but If you played on a full table of players, then K3 is a hand that I would fold, depending on position and betting. Of course, when on BB I will try to defend anything, even 2, 7 off suite  ;D and to see the flop for the price, because the worst hand can always improve significantly post-flop. Also, I will sometimes bluff raise when on SB (small blind) or on the button with K something hand.


That was your first mistake, with such a bad flop you should try to test the opponent first (if he doesn't have a flush draw) and bet small or even check to slow play this hand and try to keep the pot small because odds were not in your favor. I always prefer betting from calling, so I will try bet properly to keep the pot small and check how strong he is.


Slow play is the way to play such tricky hands.



You finally realized your mistake, only a little too late. Anyways, this is the hard way to learn poker and I am sure you will never do such a mistake again.

Keep up and think positive, wish you luck further!!!

---

PS
I know that as a thread author, I should at least merit the best answers and I already see a couple of posts worth meriting, but lately to my big surprise, I run out of merits  :o.
Kindly want to ask merit sources and other posters to award the best comments in this thread if possible. Thank you very much.


Thank you very much.


Just look at the service which @Loycev provides and believe me you will never use any other tool, because it is very easy to set up and use. Tooks only one post to write with settings.

You will know exactly when you were quoted, your username mentioned even with additional signs, and so much more. Check it is really worth it.

Took care of some of the post and now I am out of merit.

I use search feature, I feel it convenient for me.

It was a head to head and this is why I gone big in the flop round. If this was against a full table then I would not even play the hand except keep checking.

Once lost then felt it was a mistake coz at some stage I felt that I have too much money in the pot which will go away if I fold with a KK33 so I had to come up with the surprising ALL IN but at the end I was the one who got surprised.

The other guy was just taking advantage of having higher chips than me on the table. He bluffed and it worked.

Hey guys...  I think it's better to talk about poker hands in just one thread.  Steamy already made one and has a lot of good hand discussions in it.  And the hands are presented the right way too.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5214582.0

That topic looks more logical and I moved my last post to there. Go there and give your fucking inputs. Wankers 😘

That was already mentioned at least 2 times!!! I created this one because there was no active thread.

The thread you are linking was not active for 6 weeks and woke up yesterday, only because was mentioned here.

Of course, I would agree to merge these two threads or something, but as an OP, I would try to keep my thread alive or close after a few weeks of no activity.

There is a warning message when you post in older threads, not without a reason  ;).


Additionally, this thread has rules, so please be aware of them.
I would finally start to report such off-topic posts, especially if you repeat something already mentioned and discussed a few posts above.

PS
On such a big forum as Bitcointalk, I hope there is enough place even for 3 threads about the poker hands.
Please, let me try and maybe, just maybe, we can have an interesting discussion, because I have 15 years of experience in playing poker and like to discuss the hands and poker play.

the more the merrier IMO. i want to see less dice and more poker on bitcointalk! more exposure for our private league, (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5217547.0) which i'm hoping will eventually run more like large field MTTs than multi-table SNG. :)

+1 on the hand history format though. proper format: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5214582.msg53761099#msg53761099)

Not to beat a dead thread lol. I don't think there were any warning messages for posting there, as you said 6 weeks give or take pretty sure the message is at 6 months or something. Not that I care if people choose to post in multiple threads or whatnot but there really isn't anything differing between the 2.

The reason it was stalled is I was waiting for engagement on the last hands posted, or for others to post their hands. Which is always welcome I like looking at the spots others find themselves in, helps me get a fresh perspective. I got no rules on what or how people want to post their formats, I have come up with a decent one for clarity sake, but images are great to - if you provide a backstory for people to follow. Now that I;ve posted here I'll keep[ an eye and chime in if this thread carries on, as I generally just check out threads I've posted in these days. Found this after it was linked over lol.

The only thing I report there are spammy low quality repetitive posts that add nothing to the discussion. Almost verbatim for my reports

Agreed. Make Poker Great Again lol

I agree with you, but you have to believe me, that I have searched for such threads and wasn't able to find any, on a few first pages of the gambling discussion board.

So, I thought it will be wise to open a new one. Of course, I haven't used the search function because it never works for me  ;).

I will be very happy to see discussion in both threads TBH and will do my best to comment there also. Maybe finally we will merge them together or close one, but let it be, as it is for now, I guess.


I have only introduced 3 minor rules to avoid spam and to have proper reasoning to report it because I forgot to make this thread self-moderated at the beginning (never created such one so far  ;)).

Also, don't have rules on hand history formats, but think that this one suggested by @Figmentofmyass is a good one and maybe worth implementing.

Just got ruined with AA on my hand. Other player played ALL-IN with AK without the flop was 10,J,8. The turn was 3, I went ALL-IN, the fucking river was Q, I was just ruined all of my fund in that board. Damn.

These are shitty spots and something you will run into. What sort of betsizing did you use on the Flop and Turn?? Considering it wasn't all in pre-flop you might have been able to fold them off their AK with larger bets... some people just don't fold and it AA can't always win.

For me AA this past week has been shit. I am 1 for 7, and that 1 was just because it folded around pre.(77, QQ, T6s to name a few of the monsters that beat me) This morning with Coffee I sat down at SWC and would up just playing a heads-up match. They weren't very difficult an oponnent so I was raking in Blinds fairly well , and get a little value here and there. Then It comes AA so I RFI 2.5 BB, They then 3-bet me to 8BB, I make it 22BB and they Jam. I quickly call

I have AA opponent brings QQ, and the first card on the flop I shit you now it a Q. They win and I'm no longer enjoying poker with my coffee. I know it can't keep on like this but losing these massive pots and hands is really starting to suck. This is now my worst cash game hand of the week, replacing my Flush draw where I had J high flush lost to Q high flush.

The problem with AA is: In your mind you expect to win that hand 100% ;D In reality you have around 80% against any hand, so you will win 4/5 hands on average. When you get dealt AA, this is a must-win hand in your mind and that puts some pressure on yourself to get everything right. If you win that hand, all good, you played it "perfectly". If you lose that hand, you feel like a complete failure. Mentally this can be really tough, because you can only lose with AA, there is nothing to win in that regard.

I even tend to overbet AA, because I don't want to go into that mental downwards spirale (read:tilt) by losing with AA. Not going on tilt sometimes is worth more than winning X additional chips with a hand. I know that this is not the correct/value approach, but I am no pro and in Poker I don't thrive for perfection.

Another issue with AA is the devilish selective perception ;)

and that's when you isolate one opponent. lots of people limp or min-raise preflop with AA and end up in family pots, then they have trouble laying them down.

i'm beginning to see a lot of upside in playing with a LAG (rather than TAG) style. you can get really aggressive with monsters like AA/KK and still often get someone to call you down light. 6max is a whole different animal than 9max though.

Come on, I would have FOLD if I had to go through the flop and turn before ALL-IN. The other guy had ALL-IN with his AK in his first turn, it was before the flop. Since no flop is there, I followed him too and has gone ALL-IN, damn the card cheated with me  :D

In playing Poker, your actions should not reflect on your cards instead you should know how to practice having no reactions or a poker face. There's a possibility that you can increase the risk of you losing just by making some facial expression. There are players or opponents that can read facial expression and can perform a bluff depending on your cards once he read it.

In your case, you're just not that lucky enough and you opponent is the real lucky in the hands. In that situation, I will just stop gambling and continue it on the next day because that day might be not for you. You have a very good hand but his hand is much better than yours that's why you've lost it.

If I have that kind of cards then I would be confident too. A 2 pair is just a beautiful card in gambling but the only mistake that you've made is that you don't consider any hint that maybe have a diamond card that can create a flushes. I think that's the only thing you lack of, consideration of the cards in the middle.

That is the beauty of Poker.You should not assume and go all in before seeing all the cards or bad things will happen just like losing all of your balance in a short term.I hope you will recover and be more patient in the upcoming games.

I think this kind of topic is somewhat helpful but it does not replace video tutorials by any mean so if you are looking to improve your poker skills go and download or watch some lengthy video tutorials.

here's a cooler from earlier today, midway into a MTT:


was it possible to get away from this hand? could you have folded that flop? his limp-3bet suggested maybe he had a monster but i know this player to lean towards the aggressive side and assumed a wider range than just KK/AA.

i think this was just bad luck being dealt a cooler, but......thoughts?

Perhaps, before you go all in, you need to make sure that you somehow have a good feeling of understanding the cards or basically memorizing the entire deck to lessen the probability of losing. I have known some people provided some advice on how we could win on poker, here's a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHK1OjglQDs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHK1OjglQDs)

It's Maria Ho, considered one of the best poker player, well with that impressive performance, she's probably memorized the entire deck of cards.

If you are not going with ALL-IN in such a situation, I thunk you will never get a big hand at all. I have been playing poker for a long time. Have never had profit but I can say that if I had a big amount on my hand, I would still not change my decision.

None can save you if it's not your day, specially if it's poker or three cards game. I strongly believe anyone would go ALL-IN with a full house of AAAKK and guess what, there's four of a kind of KKKK which can ruin your party. Now if you don't go ALL-IN with the full house, I will take you as a very newbie.

I think it was possible to get away from this hand, that is why I like to hold myself to certain ranges of hands when I play OP/OOP or against somebody OP/OOP.

In my opinion, all in was a mistake here, you should check or bet (but not much), especially OOP. Villian re-raised pre-flop and it shows a lot of strength, which indicates hand like (AA, KK, AKs, AQs).

Additionally, when you go all in it shows to Villain that you have almost nothing, taking into consideration the flop and pre-flop betting, even with a flush draw you would likely to be slow-playing this hand. If you got the nuts post-flop, you would never go all in, only value bet to not scare off the opponent.

The Villain played this AA hand very clever, he hasn't raised, to not scare anybody, only checked and waited for weaker hands (OOP) to make the pot, to punish them later.

My suggestion: look into poker hands ranges, which hand you should play from which position, especially in 9-handed Texas Holdem, I play only 6 hands tables.

I disagree. The villain really just got lucky that figmentofmyass was dealt a QQ. We've discussed these spots before and after the limp-raise you are still pretty much flipping; sure maybe it's KK AA but it could be AK, JJ
So in that regard you can get away but if you fold out every time someone limp raises or 3-bets you with QQ you will lose a lot of value.
I think the villain played it terrible to be honest. Imagine only getting a call and not a raise from the hero. What do you do then, with this flop you again have to hope they hit a T or have an overpair. Long term it isn't a viable strategy unless it's done at a very low frequency. My AA looks the same as any other RFI I make, sometimes people fold around but when they don't I'm coming for them and not just when it's a cooler.

Just to note Hero called the all-in with an overpair to the board. It was the villain who jammed the flop.

fair point, but not having any history on villain, i dunno if i should assume that range. plenty of players like to 3bet more aggressively than that.

even with that limited range, AK/AQ obviously missed the flop, which was burning in my mind when he jammed. it screamed "missed flop, overcards" to me.


ah, you have it reversed. i raised first preflop, he limp-3bet me OOP, then he went all-in on the flop. so now maybe you have some insight into my mindset, and why i thought there was a good chance he missed the flop and was trying to bluff me off it, or had an underpair.

i did contemplate a fold, but tbh i figured JJ+/AQ+/KQ/88/77/JT+ were in his range, also possibly suited connectors with gutshot/flush draw there too, also bluffs. (i've seen lagtards pull this move with 48o on me)

i don't think he's shoving TT/99 here most of the time. the more i think about, the more EV+ calling seems tbh. calling was a gamble but mainly just because of the pot size relative to blinds.


hmmm....

https://upswingpoker.com/texas-holdem-starting-hands-guide/

Ok, the pre-flop betting I understood correctly, only I thought that you were first all-in post-flop.

In my opinion, all in is a bad decision here, but still, I will bet big also because if there is a draw, then it would be very costly to see the turn and impossible to slow play this hand further, of course, it indicates that the next bet will be all in, taking into consideration chips amount on the table.


I agree with you and exactly because there were no readings on Villian you should assume that he is playing correctly this hand, of course, after few hands you can adjust that.
This is not that I think in such situation about each player that he is a tight-aggressive reg, of course not, but with no readings at all, it is better to stick to your own poker play and ranges because it is easy to predict what he could have. There is no room for doubts and guessing in poker  ;) ;D.

As we can see, Villain turned out to have a strong hand and I have to tell you that many regular players like to play these types of hands OP, exactly as he did. Why?

Because there is a big chance that many players will pay at least BB to see the flop, taking into consideration no bet from Villian. The best scenario, I like to see in such situations is that everybody at least bets and I dream to see a raise, to be able to make a huge pot and then scare off weaker hands with my big bet in the end. If Villian would raise in this situation, there is almost no chance that players with weaker hands OOP will pay to see the flop.


I suggested only looking into ranges, not to search online on how to play them  ;) :D, because it all depends from individual players and how they play poker. Is this a tight or loose-aggressive player or maybe a calling station, fish, maniac, reg? All these players will play different hands ranges from different positions, and that is why I like to assume with no readings the most common hand ranges provided in poker books, especially on low stakes tables or in the early stage of tournaments (when I know nothing about the opponents).


Of course and I never said that Hero should fold in this situation, I will be checking this 3 bet also.

What I said was that all in was a mistake post-flop and to assume without readings that Villain plays looser ranges.

you assume everyone always has the nuts just because you don't have a read on their playing style?


i did stick to my own ranges: QQ is a premium hand and it was a favorable flop. in my experience, AA was just one of many possibilities---most of which QQ beats.

even against your super strong preflop TAG range (AA, KK, AK, AQ) QQ is a favorite to win against 50% of hands on that flop. so why would you put in 30% of your stack preflop, then fold? why call preflop at all---just for the 12% chance at set mining?


with only a few hands played together, it's impossible to know, so you have to assume he could be any of those player types. right? it seems EV- to assume he is super tight and has AA/KK 100% of the time.

In my opinion, the guy with two queens on hand and when thea flop is shown, that person is now risking his chips that he might have flush and he did since the flop have 3 diamonds card already plus his Q of diamond which all he need is one more diamond card and he'll get flash of diamonds. I sometimes risk like that when playing poker. The guy with QQ cards still have a chance of winning over your card even if it's not a flush but don't know the chances of winning and If the river is also K then he will also get two pair which is higher than yours QQKK.

He already has 4 diamonds so why not wait for the other card after all he had already bet so much. The bluff seems to have worked. It must be very disappointing for the player who has the KK33 that 2 diamonds came. The thing with Texas Poker is that this is a winner take all game.

there were only 2 diamonds on the flop. the only options are to 1. call all-in on the flop or 2. fold. i only had a 12.5% chance of hitting the back door diamond flush. that isn't the value i'm calling based on either since i know Ad and Kd are in his range.

anyway, we should move on to some other hands. rehashing the hand myself (and considering @Steamtyme's take) i think the call was acceptable. good chance to double up, just unfortunate to run into a bigger monster starting hand.

If you have any interesting hands, please drop here that we can discuss further.

I like this discussion because we have all different styles of playing poker and each comment added something new, but we all agree that this was a pretty unlucky flop for our Hero and even the best player would have hard times playing post-flop this hand further.

I have to admit here that I have folded such hands as KK or AA on such bad post-flop boards when multiple draws were possible and Villian bets aggressive, of course, it could be a bluff and many time for sure it was, but the majority of times when I try to catch such bluff it turns out to be a total failure and very often they had the nuts indeed  :o.

I know one player who always won such hands, bluffing and going all-in with literally nothing putting others under enormous pressure, but later turned out that this was a total scam and he can see the cards. That explains such perfect bluff play.

https://www.cardschat.com/news/mike-postle-poker-cheater-evidence-88866

This is the beauty of playing No Limit Holdem that you have to deal with such decisions as to go all in and risk hall stack or just to fold and wait for a better hand.

That's something I wouldn't fold; may be because I'm yet to be the expert poker guy. Earlier, I had lost 2k chips on SwC with AA on hands and there was three diamonds as well in the flop (Four including my one). Guess what, I didn't get any diamond in the turn & river. I was busted  :'( I would have folded like you did.

Yes, I have learned to play flash draws also the hard way  :D.

Not only many missed all-ins, but also many times, even when I hit the flush finally, there was somebody with a higher card than me. When I got busted with suited 8,9, then this is not a big deal, but when I lose holding KQs with A6s, then it hurts so much.

Still, to this day is hard to play draws if Villian with top pair goes all-in post-flop to make it hard and very costly decision, to check.

i've been loosely following that case---"postlegate" as it has come to be known. we have still yet to see any hard evidence of hole card knowledge, or a conspiracy between postle and the card room. it's all based on statistical data, despite the fact that all the play was live streamed.

i wonder how it will all play out. 90% of the 2+2 forum seems to think he's guilty as hell and the numbers do suggest that, but without any hard evidence......

This is exactly why this case started, the statistics where very disturbing because somebody compared them with the last scam when there was a superuser that could see hall cards and the win ratio of Postle was much higher!!! Because it was live-streamed people found out his very suspicious way of playing, he was making very strange moves by the table and there is no doubt he was looking at the phone almost all the time.

Here is one YouTuber who made few videos about this scam and is worth looking to know the case and especially to look at majority the suspicious hands when he Postle was playing in the "god mode", which means - he was winning everything from everybody bluffing and going all-in with literally nothing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kDtE9vrRiA

There are more in deep videos on this channel if somebody is interested, but this one I linked above is the shortest and most to the point one.

i watched that video, as well as veronica brill's which kicked off the whole controversy. i'll admit it's suspicious as hell---lots of circumstantial evidence, and amazing that his stats are better than absolute poker's infamous potripper. ::)

but.......how do we know he's not just an incredible hand reader? this is live poker, not online, after all.

i agree with doug polk. we need to see postle play somewhere besides the stones cardroom. let's see if he can pull those amazing soul reads live streamed at the bike. :D

There was a video that shows a pretty average if not bad play of Mike, just after the scandal and outside the stones room, but I can't find it now.

Anyways, there is another video that shows Postle playing a pretty normal poker style and losing hands when bluffing into the nuts, just a few weeks before the live sessions on stones started and where he was playing like a totally different player.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT0NHSsPv3Y

We can clearly see that Mike behaves just like any other player in this game and doesn't do all these suspected moves, never looks behind his legs or cover his eyes and head.
Additionally, he is literally saying by the table that he has not the best year ahead and exactly in this hand, we see on the video, he was bitten by a player with whom he will be playing only a few weeks later in the "god mode" and crushes him with no problems at all.

Just think about this, better stats as the "absolute poker's infamous potripper" - to achieve this you have to be some kind of poker guru (we have never seen before  ;)) or... cheating.

PS
If anybody has any interesting hands, please drop them here that we can discuss further. Every hand is welcome, but such hard once as we have discussed already are the best.

Postle the godmode runner. I owe this dude a lot, mostly because his scandal turned me back on to poker. I got a YouTube hit for Doug Polks video and then i fell down the rabbit hole of poker hand review videos.

Joey Ingram went deep in his investigation for hours and days. I like to reserve judgement but I would be hard pressed to find a reasonable doubt of collusion.

I'd have to dig but they showed a week where the stones manager/poker room organizer was away for a week. During this time Mikes magic was gone and his table demeanor was very different. I will try and fine the video/article. I think this was the only such week where his gameplay suffered during his winning streak. Again speculation but I can't recall all the details.

There is also some interesting stuff posted by berkey that implicates someone at stones through his understanding of rfid. A lot of their errors he says aren't possible, and he shows how easy it is to create a shareable link to display table hole cards.
Edit: Here is a  massive thread on the case. From 2+2. The OP has been updated with links and references.

no link---are you talking about the megathread in NVG? https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip/mike-postle-cheating-allegations-faq-first-post-1753388/

i forgot all about NVG.......always such a shitshow over there. ;D

it's true, there's nothing like a juicy controversy to re-kindle interest like that. i wasted a whole day digging through all the videos when i heard about it. and once you do that, you just gotta play some cards.

Yes sorry i must have forgot to "attach it". Yeah that was the best thread I found that had most of the relevant info updated.

It was a funny read that's for sure. It's funny I'm not a big fan of 2+2 forum, so that was part of the motivation for starting my poker talk here lol. I did get a kick out of reading through the thread, people are funny creatures lol

When we are waiting for a hand to discuss, I will share with you that in the last weeks, I have totally no luck in playing poker.

I lost almost half of my bankroll, only in two weeks. I see that I keep getting trash all the time, literally yesterday I got only one time AA, when I was playing on 4 tables, 3 hours long and I lost all in with KK. Of course, I wasn't the one pushing all in to be more fun. I get sometimes suited connectors like 5,6 or 8,9 but mostly trash like Q3o, K2o or 92.

It is just insane when I see other players showing QQ, AA, AK, AJ, JJ every second hand, but I also remember times when I was so lucky and got the highest cards 9 times in a row, winning a couple of all-ins with overwhelmed opponents. Still, even if you can play it is just hard to not lose with such shitty hands, or you have to be Apostel in god mode, to win each time with nothing  :D.  

I tried to wait a few days, changed the room, played fewer tables, more, nothing helps. Yesterday, I started to count and I got one decent hand in 88, which was this unlucky AA where I lost with KK, when the third K hit the board, of course on the river. That was the only good hand from the starting 5% range and I see that happens every day.

I keep sitting and folding all the time and even if I have something, then nobody will play with me when I raise even slightly or everybody folds when I am on BB with a strong hand. It is just insane and makes me mad lately. I know that when I start to play too many shitty hands, I will lose my bankroll finally, but if you get only these types of hands, finally you will start to defend blinds or just play because everybody is checking/folding before you and lose in the end with a higher second card, pair or flush.

I wonder what you are doing when such a time comes, that it is obvious that the luck is not on your site?

you're not alone. you've basically just described my last 3 weeks---card dead, turn/river suckouts when i do actually have it, and some coolers like set over set for good measure.

i generally just play through it, knowing that it's just the nasty side of variance and will even out over the long run. if it starts tilting me at the tables, i take a few days off. there is not much else you can do.......

There is something that you should not lose when you already have some experience in poker, and it is your bankroll, if this happens you are playing outside of bankroll, that is intrinsically related to your game, the reality is that one should not bother losing 100 hands in a row, but if that loss affects your banking it is a big problem.

There is something in poker that is the "correct move" regardless of the negative outcome and a good example is the OP's hand, in fact the evaluation made by the player who had K3 is correct. As he mentions is HUH and the range of hands changes, you can't play the same opening ranges at a 6 player short table or a 9 player long table. He is comfortable with his analysis and that is what is really important, although as always there is subjectivity in the analysis of hands, but in this case I am sure that many of us will share that the hand played well, the punctual result is bad, but the long term will bring profits.

Now, the long term with ROI in green is governed by the dictator called variance, in my case I measure my ROI every 20,000 hands and if things go wrong what I do is play another modality and forget about the Holdem for a few days.

_______
Thanks for the thread I was really surprised that there were no more threads dedicated to Poker and especially to NLH.

+1, just a high variance hand, but should be profitable over the long run. @BitcoinGirl.Club was a 60-40 favorite, and i think his play was solid considering villain's possible range---namely KX, flushes, and flush draws on the flop.

the tough thing about poker is we're forced to make decisions on large pots with wide odds. even if you consistently make the right move, you're gonna lose a lot of big hands. even if we give @BitcoinGirl.Club an extra 5-10% chance based on fold equity since he shoved into villain, that's still losing 30-35% of the time.


another thread for you: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5214582.0

we also have a forum NLHE league. check it out: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5245365.0

Thank you for your comments and sorry that I am so late with my post, but the notifications bot broke to my surprise and all quotes or mentions from this thread are not showing up.
I just check the bot in my daily forum routine and that is why it took so long to find your posts.

Anyways, just as advised I made already a week break from the tables and hope it is enough to get back on track with my play and bankroll. In the last 3 months, I have played maybe not too long each session, but almost daily and I see that I am again already addicted  :D, just can't wait to try my luck today in the evening European time on Americas Cardroom tables. I will try to save some hands and hope that we can discuss our play further.

I wonder how long are you playing poker already and on which stakes? What is your ROI? Are you winning, losing or maybe break even in the long run?
I am very lucky to be winning because I was able to use multiple high no deposit bonuses in rooms like Party Poker, Pokerstars. PKR poker and many others, almost 10 years ago and learned to play poker for free.

Just look at my Bankrollmob (https://www.bankrollmob.com/) account:

https://i.imgur.com/Vo3pwef.png

and this is only one account on my name, second I had for my better half and few others on multiple similar sites like Yourpokercash (https://yourpokercash.com/) or others which are nonexisting today.
One day I counted and in total, I got almost 3000$ in no-deposit bonuses, we have to remember that there were only minimal requirements.
These beautiful times are long gone, there were no IP checks and one was able to take as many bonuses as he wishes in 2010 - 2013.

EDIT

When this happens consistently, hand after hand, especially when losing with calling stations because of pure luck, they will hit two times 4 on the river and turn when holding 4,2, to win with AK on AQJ board calling all five streets, then I start to think that maybe the good way of playing poker is wrong, but for sure this also happens more often on low stakes where I am now playing.

Maybe on higher stakes, people are just playing better and all-ins with pair of 5 happen not so often as on micro stakes? They will call you more often on lower stakes because it cost randomly a buck or two to call all five streets almost a pot high every time. A different strategy is needed as on medium stakes, where I was playing a few years ago.

i dunno man, you sound kinda tilted to me. you should be happy people are calling down with such garbage. soft games! it's just a bad beat, maybe a run of bad beats. but if you can't shake those bad beats off, it's going to affect your game.

mid stakes is definitely more aggressive, less calling stations. tougher games.

I thought a lot and finally changed strategy when I play draws and semi-bluffing. When I have such a hand, then I try to play very slowly and keep the pot size small because fishes and calling stations or even maniacs will call you the majority of times on micro stakes, so the best way to play with them is to not try to bluff them, only when I have something, then I start to bet. Of course, few times I have lost anyways, but this is not so significant as it was before when I was losing almost every hand.


I don't think so, as you can see I am playing poker really long and can handle tilts. I am not angry, frustrated or something. Don't change my gameplay immediately after losing a hand or do something stupid like go all-in with low pair pre-flop. Don't short my ranges, change strategies, play much looser instead of staying tight. Indeed in the last session, I changed something, but it was just a small improvement, in addition, it was a thoughtful decision, not some spontaneous one.

After our talks and quotes you provided, I started to dig the luck topic deeper and found many very interesting articles about variations, deviations, probabilities and the impact they have on the game. Indeed, it just could have been a super long streak of bad luck.

Funny to read stories exactly as mine:

https://i.imgur.com/1oOpsg7.png
https://www.cardschat.com/f57/longest-run-bad-luck-345527/

This next quote explains exactly what happened to me in the last few weeks by the tables:

https://www.gamblingsites.org/blog/good-luck-and-bad-luck-at-the-poker-tables/

P.S
I changed the thread rules because they were not relevant anymore and allowed talks about poker as a whole.

I'm a small/micro stakes MTT tournament player mostly. I have been finding minor success playing cash games. Up until last month I could say I was ahead if I walked away. Then I had a run that just felt like it wouldn't end. Definitely was getting tilted not so much with my cardplay but my buy-ins. I would run into a bad beat or something and either late reg in the last 2 levels or jump into another game. This was rarely going to go well for me.

Couple that with expected variance and my bankroll went from comfortable to looking at a reload. For me I tend to play most of the week when I am off and not at all if working... apart from the odd forum tourney. So I can always come back refreshed. Apart from the bankroll management the plays themselves weren't the worst as I'll go over some of the spots while I'm away from the tables.What was a killer though is my PC that I was using to study and review has had issues so I didn't have that winddown ritual to go through anymore, and I think that contributed to the tilty rebuys.

---

Really though it wasn't all that bad. I say this because I have learned from the situation. Plan my tournaments and bullets I'm willing to fire before I get going and stick to that. I also buy-in more micro than lowstakes tourneys. I have also dialed back my aggression a bit on what and when I'm willing to get it all in and when. Overall as long as you can take something away from a bad situation then you're headed in the right direction.

I also have to remind myself that I really only started to take poker more seriously a few months ago after binking a decent tournament. I have casually played for a few years in spurts of a week or 2 here. I would load 30 buck or so and see where it would take me. The fact that I've played 1000's of hands and learned to pick spots apart better all from that is a pretty big accomplishment in itself. 

This is indeed very hard to find the ultimate aggression level when playing poker and until today I make mistakes with being too aggressive with the best starting hands, many times losing significant pots when the hand hasn't improved. This is a really hard spot to be in because when you start to check it is obvious that you have nothing and from the other side to bet aggressively only with the high card is not so wise also.

I agree that we should learn from our mistakes and constantly try to improve the play. I like to treat poker as a hobby and not as a source of income because when I put too much pressure and think about the money it doesn't end up well, majority of times. When I don't think about the money and play just for fun because I have a few hours to spare the play looks totally different. I don't know but maybe the right mindset is the key to success?