Bitcoin Forum

I came up with this idea of making bitcointalk 10th anniversary art contest  as NFT, what do you think? Is it possible that there is an official market to sell it?
I expect this event to be worth some after a few years.

You mean minting NFT for the winning submission? If so, the owner of the creation can mint NFT and list on a marketplace. I really don't see here anything the forum could be involved. Maybe I'm wrong, I didn’t get what you mean.

NFTs are tokens, all tokens are altcoins, NFTs are altcoins. Even if there will be any price offered for such a thing, it will be in Bitcoin and nothing more but Bitcoin.

There are several types of NFT tokens – which one you will want to use in Bitcointalk's 10th art event.
Type:
1. APENFT-(NFT)
2. NFT-(NFT)
3. NEFTiPEDiA-(NFT)

All three NFT tokens already have a sale market, so which one do you want to share.

Your idea isn't bad, but do it in the Bounty Altcoin section there where appropriate.

As Charles-Tim already have written in his post the only way that you can do something like that is that the price are in Bitcoin !
Would be making sense for the Bitcoin Forum here or ?


So i guess it will be not allowed for doing it even it maybe a good idea from you , but you have to ask theymos for that , but i can imagine that the rules will be taking effect here also !
Maybe you should read that here exactly : Unofficial list of (official) Bitcointalk.org rules, guidelines, FAQ (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=703657.0)

A few factors to consider here;

• Altcoins is slang for alternative cyptocurrencies, ie they are currencies
• Currencies/money requires a medium of exchange for goods and services
• NFTs are not a medium of exchange, nor traded for goods and services

Therefore not all smart contracts are medium of exchanges, no.


Fun fact: most NFTs are bought and sold with Ethereum, not Bitcoin.
Often because the smart contract is based on ETH  ::)
Last I checked BTC doesn't have this capability.

Just providing info, no need for anyone to get their maxi-panties in a twist  :P

Even if Bitcoin has the capability, all the tokens will still be altcoins, but maybe such tokens can be considered but I do not think they would because Bitcoin remain bitcoin.

That's a great reason to do something. But why bother with NFTs, too much work. Let's sell satoshi's account, that's gotta be worth a lot.

No. Not altcoins. They're tokens. That's in my book lower than altcoins, since altcoins at least have their own blockchain, while the tokens don't even have that much.

For some this is bad. For others it's still money (which, why not, can be used to buy moar Bitcoin). I myself don't trust them enough and I don't care enough about NFTs, but there are quite a number of well thought and pretty much successful tokens too. If we keep our mind open we'll see that the world is bigger than we'd think and there may not always be only the absolute good and absolute bad.

The event may be historical, but I doubt if the NFT hype can go on for even more than 3 years. Remember ICOs in 2017. Anybody talking about them now?

I think it isn't necessary, just like the suggestions of creating Bitcointalk token wasn't welcome when someone suggested it, (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5328331.0) given that this is a Bitcoin forum.

Nice idea, however NFT tokens are worthless; if you're interested, you can mint some of my collections (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5351763.msg57571573#msg57571573) as well.  ;D My Satoshi collections will be available soon. Good luck!!!

BTC0.5https://i.imgur.com/X3VgyIj.jpg

BTC0.5https://i.imgur.com/hIV5bRh.jpg

BTC0.5https://i.imgur.com/hluJlA4.jpg

Whereas one may use altcoins for alternative network security/utility (imagine using a blockchain with security/latency appropriate to your needs) or tokens for utility/open mechanisms...

NFT's are like if you minted a new 1-supply token repeatedly.

What's funny is that eventually, you'll see people who want part-ownership... which will probably consist of a new ownership-token operating upon that 1-supply token as an ad-hoc solution. You're also trusting the minter to not create derivative works that usurp previous ones.

Nice explanation!



This is imho a flaw. I'd say that this is one of the main reasons I don't trust NFTs. I think that - sooner or later - we'll end up with plenty of NFTs for the same "item", whether on same blockchain or - more likely - on different ones.

Sure they are. They just changed the packaging, added some new colors, and started calling them differently. Now you have Initial Exchange Offerings (IEO) and Security Token Offerings (STOs). Once people become tired of those, they'll invent the next big thing, like NFTs.

There already is such a thing. It's called Fractional ownership (https://fractional.art/). All credits go to slackovic who made a post about this in the Croatian local forum yesterday (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5253239.msg57700806#msg57700806).

As a matter of fact, both IEO and STO are kinda thing of the past, and the latest and most popular thing now is IDO (Initial Dex Offerings), but the end goal is pretty much the same, to take money from naive, greedy and ignorant, like it was in ICO times.

---

Regarding NFTs, it's true that there is a shit load of hype around it that reminds of 2017 altcoins craze, but I think that they are here to stay and with the time we gonna get implementations that actually make sense, once we are over with this initial hype and bunch of useless crap.

I guess we only need IFTFOs - Initial Face-to-Face Offerings to round up the freak show. Maybe next year.

I have a feeling people will get sick and tired of them like any other other hype crypto movements of the past. There is some potential in the industry though. Especially getting a chance to own an in-game character whose skills you have been building and developing for a long time. Once it becomes possible to import and export these characters between different games, it could be interesting to see what will happen.

But I still can't stop laughing when I see crap like MILF artwork and MILF NFTs. 

I don't doubt you, though I don't know much about--or care much for--NFTs.  However, one thing I do know is that if something can be sold, it can probably be sold for bitcoin if that's what the buyer wants to pay with.

From what little I do know about NFTs, which is basically the digital artworks that have been produced and sometimes sold for ungodly sums, I think they're being way overhyped and that the digital art is probably going to be near worthless once people either wake up to the fact that there's nothing inherently valuable about it or if the economy goes south and suddenly people lose interest in such frivolities. I mean, do digital comic books have any resale value?  I get that NFTs aren't reproducible like comics are, but to my old school eyes there's absolutely no difference.

But hey, if anyone wants to create one of these things for bitcointalk's anniversary, go for it.  I wouldn't want it, but that doesn't mean someone else wouldn't think it's a nice piece of crypto history and a good way to celebrate the forum.

Haha might be. It's a common misconception here on bitcointalk (I thought the same until I started to dig deeper ) the ICOs died out and that they are not popular anymore, while in reality they just changed the name, adjusted approach and are definitely playing the smarter game than in 2017, even though end result is usually the same- people loosing money. The fact that they don't need bitcointalk anymore for marketing their crap is probably giving that impression, there are more efficient platforms for that nowadays.


Yeah, that's the implementation I am most interested in, gaming. But not in some shitty browser games like Alien Worlds which are just using NFTs to attract crypto speculators, but in a real AAA PC games where NFTs are utilized in a meaningful way and focus is on gamers. Since creation of such game takes at least 3-4 years and tens of millions of dollars, it will take some time before we get something good, but I am really looking forward to it.

What I don't understand is how these collections manage to reach such a huge price. Take a look at this Donald Trump piece (https://niftygateway.com/itemdetail/secondary/0x12f28e2106ce8fd8464885b80ea865e98b465149/100010001) for example. It was sold for $6.6 million. Sure, it's funny, looks ok, and if you are anti-Trump you would like it even more. But over $6 million, really? When you buy a rare picture, you have the only piece, no one less can touch, smell, or look at it unless you allow it. This thing is available for free, you can download it from the link I posted. Why the need to be in possession of its ownership rights?

No NFT yet built on Bitcoin blockchain, if there are NFTs on Bitcoin blockchan, Bitcoin will be used to purchase it. I do not know if there are any changes yet, also I do not know about NFTs on exchanges, but if you want to purchase NFTs, you will have to connect your wallet, example is connecting your ethereum wallet like Metamask to OpenSea in which Ethereum or ethereum tokens can be used for the purchase. So, bitcoin can not be used for the purchase. It will be great if NFTs can be built on Bitcoin blockchain, likewise DeFi.

You can access the digital artwork but only the person that have the ownership right can access the NFT (token) because the person will be the one that has the private key. But I understand your point, it sounds crazy to me too as the digital artworks are just available to everyone, the token should worth nothing as the digital works are available freely to anyone that want to access it, but rich people can make some things possible.

For sure. Many markets allows transactions in different currencies, even if some of the cost would come through the "base layer" that the NFT is based on. If it was sold in Bitcoin, via BTC blockhain, it'd be a shit load cheaper than ETH gas that's for sure! But otherise, if the NFT is ETH based, the cost would be the same and calculated via BTC or more likely WBTC I imagine (BTC pegged stable coin).


Personally I find all artwork worthless, and never understood how someone could ever value it at millions when it's worth (cost) is hundreds or thousands. But I respect the fact there other speculators who know much better than me, and have made a shit load from their expertise. That said, NFTs aren't for the crypto space to understand or engage with, so don't worry. It's for the art collectors and other collectors. Consider cryptocurrency and blockhain as merely the base layer for this digital market, not much else for the time being.

For some perspective, back in March I realised after some considerable research that NFT sales were only worth 0.1% of the crypto market at best, but otherwise 1-2% of art sales and around 5-10% of collectible sales. It may seem strange these speculators are engaging with the digital versions as "alternatives", but serious investors don't have a choice and must allocate their portfolio accordingly based on risk/reward, whether they like it or not or it goes to zero or 100x from here. Afterall, they are speculators.

That said, some collections are outperforming Bitcoin, their trading pair Ethereum as well as 99% of altcoins since the $60K levels. So as a diverse speculator, I can't ignore the trend these days. It's too risky to do so and I allocate accordingly, but in a high risk manner as I usually do for the fastest growing asset class around. Taking profits is always advised however.

Why NFTs are popular is like asking why Pokemon sells for millions: speculation & scarcity  ;)

Everyone forgets that the first blockchain for NFTs was actually Bitcoin, thanks to the Counterparty protocol. The Rare Pepes (http://rarepepedirectory.com/) were the first NFTs.

https://rarepepewallet.com/images/cards/MONALISAPEPE.jpg

But of course they weren't called NFTs back then. That term only came into popularity after CryptoKitties and the rise of Ethereum.

Counterparty never really took off because you need to submit a TX to the blockchain every time you want to perform a transaction on the protocol, and Bitcoin's 10-minute block time aren't feasible for using it for high-volume trading.

Now that tx fees have come down a lot and NFTs are in, there should be a push to use XCP but the truth is its hard to find and kind of obscure.

My biggest concern with any NFT is: where is the image file stored? It has to be stored in a distributed, immutable fashion if it wants to take on the characteristics of a physical item.

Fascinating, had no idea. Thanks for sharing that info. Think you've just given me a full day of research and exploration  :)


Hard to find and kind of obscure? Sounds perfect! Rescue operations are a pretty popular too. The most value collections are usually the "firsts". Think first ever, first cats, first X. Not CKs either generally speaking as too inflationary so passing fad. The rest are all generally worthless unless trading them fresh with a bot. Could devalue some 6 figure punks if no longer the first collection as well.


Varies from collection to collection, often it's a "digital representation" in 0s and the 1s, as not a need necessarily to have uncompressed versions knocking around onchain. There isn't any physical item however, unless you produce it, slap a signature on it and sell it at physical auction with the private keys attached (or transfer it to new address etc). The physical format is mere novelty, not relevant.

I think its relevant. I can pull up a collection of NFT baseball trading cards I have, press the phone screen to flip the card to the reverse side and read the stats for the player.

If the host server for the image were to go down and never come back up, and that image wasn't backed up elsewhere, indeed all the NFT would be is a collection of ones and zeros.*

If you only need an NFT to express the concept of ownership, then yes all you need is ones and zeros.

I agree that a lot of NFTs are waaay over-valued and over-hyped, and the NFT market could be somewhere in the first phase of a giant bubble. But what remains standing after that will be of all the more value going forward.

*there is a solution to this and its to upload the image to a Creative Commons library or some other distributed library service like IPFS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterPlanetary_File_System).

Delayed response but anyway...


By physical format I was meaning something you can touch, but I realise you were specifically referring to the non-physical attributes only. For example with digital music there is no need for the physical disc or tape, having ownership and ability to access this media appears to be more than enough for most buyers. Not the greatest comparison I know, but more to elaborate on why I don't believe NFT's require a physical format beyond their digital media format. Of course at an auction house, IRL, showing a smart contract of 0s and 1s isn't going to sell as well as a physical copy of that NFT itself  ;)


I'm not entirely sure about this. When Pondware went offline, and thus it's cat collection was considered "lost", the felines were extracted into an unofficial rescue contract and the collection was able to be accessed again via markets such as opensea. Maybe I misunderstood what occurred, and there were still the basic attributes accessible via Pondware's servers that were therefore able to be reconstructed, and only the market was unavailable. If this was the case then for sure, if the entire server went down, even rescuing a collection based on it's smart contract data wouldn't be enough to restore the collection's full attributes.

That said, NFTs are still in their nascent stages. It might seem like the industry is 4 years old already due to some punks that are worth than bitcoin now, but really it's only been this year that the ball has got rolling and they have become a billion dollar industry. Over time I imagine there will be ways to preserve the full representation of NFTs, and already decentralized markets are assisting with this it seems. For example many collections appear to be more popular on opensea than they are from the server they were created from, even if for example the digital punks are still mainly sold via larvalabs it seems. When a collection becomes available on a handful of decentralized markets, to me it already seems enough to avoid losing the original server data, even if the developers shut down their interface.


It's true that decentralizing the content of the NFT is somewhat important. Many are becoming animated and so fourth, with only a basic representation of this in it's 0 and 1s format.

Man, I was wondering why the forums didn't have a dedicated NFT marketplace and came across this thread. So much misinformation and contradictory statements I don't even know where to begin.

If altcoin giveaways aren't allowed and NFTs are "altcoins" why does the collectible section get a pass on NFT giveaways and it's allowed there?
Since when is "only" bitcoin the accepted payment method on the forums? Again, the collectible section constantly lists items for sale with alternative payment methods. My understanding was you had to allow payment in Bitcoin if the buyer wants to use it, but were welcome to accept any payment method the buyer and you agreed upon.

But anyways, since the Collectibles forum is allowed to give away NFTs, I see no problem with OP's proposal. Although, logistics aren't exactly clear. But my thoughts are users can submit artwork for the 10th anniversary NFT and then a winner can be voted on and then the NFT can be minted at the OP's expense and then auctioned or raffled away and proceeds be used to support the forum.

Unless you personally know both buyer and seller and are aware of their intentions you can't really claim this was a "purchase". In this transaction the buyer is actually anonymous which could be Nifty Gateway or the seller themselves trying to hype up their platform and get its name mentioned in the media.
Also I am always skeptical about such large transfers of money, FBI and IRS should really take a close look at these things to see how much money is being laundered through these platforms.

Selling a collectible or any other item or digital content is not a giveaway. I see no reason why NFTs shouldn't be allowed to be sold in the collectible sub-board. I haven't looked at the rules for that particular board, but my guess would be that BTC must be one of the payment methods the seller accepts + whatever else he is content with. Do you have examples of threads where they are being given away for free?

True, but in that case you can say that about almost any transaction involving digital coins. That includes those made on gambling platforms, exchanges, etc. It could be just a way to create artificial traffic and attention or it could be legit users trading, exchanging, and withdrawing.

If you think that's bad, take a look at the history of Cryptopunks (https://www.larvalabs.com/cryptopunks).

This didn't take long. Page 3 of the collectible section.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5352777.0

read (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5337837.msg57318444#msg57318444)

I have to admit that I don't understand why this is allowed but altcoin giveaways aren't. The link actmyname posted with theymos' explanation didn't make it clear to me.

In this particular thread, the prize that can be won is 1 NFT token. The token itself uses the WAX network. WAX=altcoin.
The participants have to make a low effort post to guess the last character of the hash (incentivized posting + low effort spam posts). All this takes place outside of Games & Rounds and in a currency which is not BTC.

Someone explain to me what is the difference between this particular NFT giveaway and some other giveaways where users got banned for participating in them in exchange for LTC and some other coins in the past?

Just to make it clear. I have nothing against altcoin giveaways and I certainly don't want to see people get temporary banned for them. When LoyceV suggested allowing giveaways for established alts, I was in favor of that proposal. But they should either be allowed or not. Which one is it? The thread kryme posted could have maybe just been overlooked by the admins and in reality shouldn't be allowed either.