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Author Topic: 10th anniversary art contest as NFT  (Read 462 times)
dragonvslinux
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August 17, 2021, 10:32:28 PM
Last edit: August 17, 2021, 10:43:49 PM by dragonvslinux
 #21

Fun fact: most NFTs are bought and sold with Ethereum, not Bitcoin.
I don't doubt you, though I don't know much about--or care much for--NFTs.  However, one thing I do know is that if something can be sold, it can probably be sold for bitcoin if that's what the buyer wants to pay with.

For sure. Many markets allows transactions in different currencies, even if some of the cost would come through the "base layer" that the NFT is based on. If it was sold in Bitcoin, via BTC blockhain, it'd be a shit load cheaper than ETH gas that's for sure! But otherise, if the NFT is ETH based, the cost would be the same and calculated via BTC or more likely WBTC I imagine (BTC pegged stable coin).

From what little I do know about NFTs, which is basically the digital artworks that have been produced and sometimes sold for ungodly sums, I think they're being way overhyped and that the digital art is probably going to be near worthless once people either wake up to the fact that there's nothing inherently valuable about it or if the economy goes south and suddenly people lose interest in such frivolities. I mean, do digital comic books have any resale value?  I get that NFTs aren't reproducible like comics are, but to my old school eyes there's absolutely no difference.

Personally I find all artwork worthless, and never understood how someone could ever value it at millions when it's worth (cost) is hundreds or thousands. But I respect the fact there other speculators who know much better than me, and have made a shit load from their expertise. That said, NFTs aren't for the crypto space to understand or engage with, so don't worry. It's for the art collectors and other collectors. Consider cryptocurrency and blockhain as merely the base layer for this digital market, not much else for the time being.

For some perspective, back in March I realised after some considerable research that NFT sales were only worth 0.1% of the crypto market at best, but otherwise 1-2% of art sales and around 5-10% of collectible sales. It may seem strange these speculators are engaging with the digital versions as "alternatives", but serious investors don't have a choice and must allocate their portfolio accordingly based on risk/reward, whether they like it or not or it goes to zero or 100x from here. Afterall, they are speculators.

That said, some collections are outperforming Bitcoin, their trading pair Ethereum as well as 99% of altcoins since the $60K levels. So as a diverse speculator, I can't ignore the trend these days. It's too risky to do so and I allocate accordingly, but in a high risk manner as I usually do for the fastest growing asset class around. Taking profits is always advised however.

Why NFTs are popular is like asking why Pokemon sells for millions: speculation & scarcity  Wink

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August 18, 2021, 05:02:57 AM
Merited by ABCbits (2), suchmoon (1)
 #22

Everyone forgets that the first blockchain for NFTs was actually Bitcoin, thanks to the Counterparty protocol. The Rare Pepes were the first NFTs.



But of course they weren't called NFTs back then. That term only came into popularity after CryptoKitties and the rise of Ethereum.

Counterparty never really took off because you need to submit a TX to the blockchain every time you want to perform a transaction on the protocol, and Bitcoin's 10-minute block time aren't feasible for using it for high-volume trading.

Now that tx fees have come down a lot and NFTs are in, there should be a push to use XCP but the truth is its hard to find and kind of obscure.

My biggest concern with any NFT is: where is the image file stored? It has to be stored in a distributed, immutable fashion if it wants to take on the characteristics of a physical item.

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dragonvslinux
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August 18, 2021, 05:34:21 AM
 #23

Everyone forgets that the first blockchain for NFTs was actually Bitcoin, thanks to the Counterparty protocol. The Rare Pepes were the first NFTs.


Fascinating, had no idea. Thanks for sharing that info. Think you've just given me a full day of research and exploration  Smiley

Counterparty never really took off because you need to submit a TX to the blockchain every time you want to perform a transaction on the protocol, and Bitcoin's 10-minute block time aren't feasible for using it for high-volume trading.

Now that tx fees have come down a lot and NFTs are in, there should be a push to use XCP but the truth is its hard to find and kind of obscure.

Hard to find and kind of obscure? Sounds perfect! Rescue operations are a pretty popular too. The most value collections are usually the "firsts". Think first ever, first cats, first X. Not CKs either generally speaking as too inflationary so passing fad. The rest are all generally worthless unless trading them fresh with a bot. Could devalue some 6 figure punks if no longer the first collection as well.

My biggest concern with any NFT is: where is the image file stored? It has to be stored in a distributed, immutable fashion if it wants to take on the characteristics of a physical item.

Varies from collection to collection, often it's a "digital representation" in 0s and the 1s, as not a need necessarily to have uncompressed versions knocking around onchain. There isn't any physical item however, unless you produce it, slap a signature on it and sell it at physical auction with the private keys attached (or transfer it to new address etc). The physical format is mere novelty, not relevant.

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nutildah
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August 18, 2021, 06:35:26 AM
 #24

The physical format is mere novelty, not relevant.

I think its relevant. I can pull up a collection of NFT baseball trading cards I have, press the phone screen to flip the card to the reverse side and read the stats for the player.

If the host server for the image were to go down and never come back up, and that image wasn't backed up elsewhere, indeed all the NFT would be is a collection of ones and zeros.*

If you only need an NFT to express the concept of ownership, then yes all you need is ones and zeros.

I agree that a lot of NFTs are waaay over-valued and over-hyped, and the NFT market could be somewhere in the first phase of a giant bubble. But what remains standing after that will be of all the more value going forward.

*there is a solution to this and its to upload the image to a Creative Commons library or some other distributed library service like IPFS.

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dragonvslinux
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August 27, 2021, 09:26:27 AM
 #25

Delayed response but anyway...

There isn't any physical item however, unless you produce it, slap a signature on it and sell it at physical auction with the private keys attached (or transfer it to new address etc). The physical format is mere novelty, not relevant.

I think its relevant. I can pull up a collection of NFT baseball trading cards I have, press the phone screen to flip the card to the reverse side and read the stats for the player.

By physical format I was meaning something you can touch, but I realise you were specifically referring to the non-physical attributes only. For example with digital music there is no need for the physical disc or tape, having ownership and ability to access this media appears to be more than enough for most buyers. Not the greatest comparison I know, but more to elaborate on why I don't believe NFT's require a physical format beyond their digital media format. Of course at an auction house, IRL, showing a smart contract of 0s and 1s isn't going to sell as well as a physical copy of that NFT itself  Wink

If the host server for the image were to go down and never come back up, and that image wasn't backed up elsewhere, indeed all the NFT would be is a collection of ones and zeros.*

If you only need an NFT to express the concept of ownership, then yes all you need is ones and zeros.

I'm not entirely sure about this. When Pondware went offline, and thus it's cat collection was considered "lost", the felines were extracted into an unofficial rescue contract and the collection was able to be accessed again via markets such as opensea. Maybe I misunderstood what occurred, and there were still the basic attributes accessible via Pondware's servers that were therefore able to be reconstructed, and only the market was unavailable. If this was the case then for sure, if the entire server went down, even rescuing a collection based on it's smart contract data wouldn't be enough to restore the collection's full attributes.

That said, NFTs are still in their nascent stages. It might seem like the industry is 4 years old already due to some punks that are worth than bitcoin now, but really it's only been this year that the ball has got rolling and they have become a billion dollar industry. Over time I imagine there will be ways to preserve the full representation of NFTs, and already decentralized markets are assisting with this it seems. For example many collections appear to be more popular on opensea than they are from the server they were created from, even if for example the digital punks are still mainly sold via larvalabs it seems. When a collection becomes available on a handful of decentralized markets, to me it already seems enough to avoid losing the original server data, even if the developers shut down their interface.

I agree that a lot of NFTs are waaay over-valued and over-hyped, and the NFT market could be somewhere in the first phase of a giant bubble. But what remains standing after that will be of all the more value going forward.

*there is a solution to this and its to upload the image to a Creative Commons library or some other distributed library service like IPFS.

It's true that decentralizing the content of the NFT is somewhat important. Many are becoming animated and so fourth, with only a basic representation of this in it's 0 and 1s format.

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August 27, 2021, 01:26:37 PM
 #26

Man, I was wondering why the forums didn't have a dedicated NFT marketplace and came across this thread. So much misinformation and contradictory statements I don't even know where to begin.

If altcoin giveaways aren't allowed and NFTs are "altcoins" why does the collectible section get a pass on NFT giveaways and it's allowed there?
Since when is "only" bitcoin the accepted payment method on the forums? Again, the collectible section constantly lists items for sale with alternative payment methods. My understanding was you had to allow payment in Bitcoin if the buyer wants to use it, but were welcome to accept any payment method the buyer and you agreed upon.

But anyways, since the Collectibles forum is allowed to give away NFTs, I see no problem with OP's proposal. Although, logistics aren't exactly clear. But my thoughts are users can submit artwork for the 10th anniversary NFT and then a winner can be voted on and then the NFT can be minted at the OP's expense and then auctioned or raffled away and proceeds be used to support the forum.

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August 28, 2021, 05:49:01 AM
 #27

What I don't understand is how these collections manage to reach such a huge price. Take a look at this Donald Trump piece for example. It was sold for $6.6 million. Sure, it's funny, looks ok, and if you are anti-Trump you would like it even more. But over $6 million, really? When you buy a rare picture, you have the only piece, no one less can touch, smell, or look at it unless you allow it. This thing is available for free, you can download it from the link I posted. Why the need to be in possession of its ownership rights?
Unless you personally know both buyer and seller and are aware of their intentions you can't really claim this was a "purchase". In this transaction the buyer is actually anonymous which could be Nifty Gateway or the seller themselves trying to hype up their platform and get its name mentioned in the media.
Also I am always skeptical about such large transfers of money, FBI and IRS should really take a close look at these things to see how much money is being laundered through these platforms.

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August 28, 2021, 06:42:40 AM
 #28

If altcoin giveaways aren't allowed and NFTs are "altcoins" why does the collectible section get a pass on NFT giveaways and it's allowed there?
Selling a collectible or any other item or digital content is not a giveaway. I see no reason why NFTs shouldn't be allowed to be sold in the collectible sub-board. I haven't looked at the rules for that particular board, but my guess would be that BTC must be one of the payment methods the seller accepts + whatever else he is content with. Do you have examples of threads where they are being given away for free?

Unless you personally know both buyer and seller and are aware of their intentions you can't really claim this was a "purchase". In this transaction the buyer is actually anonymous which could be Nifty Gateway or the seller themselves trying to hype up their platform and get its name mentioned in the media.
True, but in that case you can say that about almost any transaction involving digital coins. That includes those made on gambling platforms, exchanges, etc. It could be just a way to create artificial traffic and attention or it could be legit users trading, exchanging, and withdrawing.

If you think that's bad, take a look at the history of Cryptopunks.

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August 28, 2021, 02:24:45 PM
 #29

If altcoin giveaways aren't allowed and NFTs are "altcoins" why does the collectible section get a pass on NFT giveaways and it's allowed there?
Selling a collectible or any other item or digital content is not a giveaway. I see no reason why NFTs shouldn't be allowed to be sold in the collectible sub-board. I haven't looked at the rules for that particular board, but my guess would be that BTC must be one of the payment methods the seller accepts + whatever else he is content with. Do you have examples of threads where they are being given away for free?

Unless you personally know both buyer and seller and are aware of their intentions you can't really claim this was a "purchase". In this transaction the buyer is actually anonymous which could be Nifty Gateway or the seller themselves trying to hype up their platform and get its name mentioned in the media.
True, but in that case you can say that about almost any transaction involving digital coins. That includes those made on gambling platforms, exchanges, etc. It could be just a way to create artificial traffic and attention or it could be legit users trading, exchanging, and withdrawing.

If you think that's bad, take a look at the history of Cryptopunks.

This didn't take long. Page 3 of the collectible section.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5352777.0

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August 28, 2021, 02:52:00 PM
 #30

This didn't take long. Page 3 of the collectible section.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5352777.0
read

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August 28, 2021, 06:16:05 PM
 #31

This didn't take long. Page 3 of the collectible section.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5352777.0
I have to admit that I don't understand why this is allowed but altcoin giveaways aren't. The link actmyname posted with theymos' explanation didn't make it clear to me.

In this particular thread, the prize that can be won is 1 NFT token. The token itself uses the WAX network. WAX=altcoin.
The participants have to make a low effort post to guess the last character of the hash (incentivized posting + low effort spam posts). All this takes place outside of Games & Rounds and in a currency which is not BTC.

Someone explain to me what is the difference between this particular NFT giveaway and some other giveaways where users got banned for participating in them in exchange for LTC and some other coins in the past?

Just to make it clear. I have nothing against altcoin giveaways and I certainly don't want to see people get temporary banned for them. When LoyceV suggested allowing giveaways for established alts, I was in favor of that proposal. But they should either be allowed or not. Which one is it? The thread kryme posted could have maybe just been overlooked by the admins and in reality shouldn't be allowed either.

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