Bitcoin Forum

So I just stumbled across this post from Greg Maxwell on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/ws8wfd/starting_september_12th_in_oslo_norway_hodlonaut/ikxqxoo/. Everyone with even a passing interest in bitcoin (which includes you, if you are reading this forum) should read this post. In fact, I would read the whole thread, because Greg has made a number of excellent posts.

Next month a pseudonymous individual by the handle of Hodlonaut (https://nitter.it/hodlonaut) will go to court in Norway to defend himself against known fraudster CSW. For anyone out of the loop, here is an update on the case: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/timeline-of-hodlonaut-craig-wright-case. The very abridged version is that Holdonaut posted on Twitter what everyone knows - that CSW is not Satoshi - and now there is a court case to determine whether these tweets are lawful and whether Hodlonaut has to pay damages to CSW.

This case doesn't just affect Hodlonaut; it affects all of us. Hodlonaut is not just defending himself; he is defending us all, as explained in Greg's post I linked to above.

So what can we do to help? Well, CSW is being bankrolled by Calvin Ayre and CoinGeek. Hodlonaut, on the other hand, is being bankrolled by nobody. Got some spare sats kicking around? I can think of no worthier cause than the defense of bitcoin itself.

https://www.defendingbtc.com/
https://nitter.it/defendingBTC

#WeAreAllHodlonaut

---

Twitter links of individuals who are at the trial:

https://nitter.it/bitnorbert
https://nitter.it/SpecificMills
https://nitter.it/kristiandoble/

---

Thread continued here: Hodlonaut Trial (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5413844)

I just read the case and I'm just surprised seeing someone claiming he created Bitcoin. It's pretty laughable and also a serious case we shouldn't joke about. Because everybody knows that Satoshi Nakamoto created Bitcoin, of which all evidence could be found on his forum profile Satoshi (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3).
So my question here is, why didn't Wright provide the 1.1million Bitcoin he claims to own when the court ordered him? And why is he sueing journalist and Bitcoin developers who tries to proof he isn't the creator of Bitcoin if he really is? Because until he log-in Satoshi's forum account, I will still never believe he created Bitcoin.

Because for me, this is the case and time for everybody who has ever believed in Bitcoin to stand up for this case.

From what I read on reddit and Bitcoin magazine, I understand this better. I wonder how someone that is not a programmer and having no knowledge of the basic tech of bitcoin to be Satoshi Nakamoto. Just simple evidences are needed to claim if he is the true Satoshi or not, was he able to sign bitcoin message with the address that has the 1.1 million bitcoin? Definitely NO is what that comes my mind.

Because he is not the owner. Because he is not Satoshi.

He is definitely not Satoshi

I was glad to see that someone dropped 47 BTC into Hodlonaut's defense fund.  That's a great deal of coin.  While I'm not a huge fan of some maximalist tactics, I can appreciate that Hodlonaut stood up for himself and the community by calling out a fraudster.  While it is a shame that so much money has to be wasted that could have undoubtedly gone to better places, I am hoping for the best, which is that CSW loses and goes away.  I'll admit it took me longer than it should have to realize what CSW was trying to do and he did have a good plan (as far as scammers go), but in the end, Hal remains victorious. 

Watch out, you could get sued by Craig "Faketoshi" Wright. Oops, I could get sued too! Sorry Craig, I didn't mean to say that you're a fraud. It just came out that way. :P
P.S. if Craig is reading this, you got your ass handed to you by Vitalik at that conference in 2018. Why didn't you sue him?

I saw the news trending since yesterday but to my surprise no one has drop the discussion here on bitcoin discussion and thanks for putting an update through, it's of no doubt that lot of people were already giving in support of Hodlonaut in other to win the case and i know this also will have a long place to go with the forum members in their support as well, here we all have nothing but just to defend bitcoin as it been said, one thing i know that could be a difficult task to do is for Craig Wright to use his account sign a message if truly he is Satoshi.

We are not moved neither do we get confused by his insanity display and claim of being Satoshi because literally, Satoshi couldn't have done what he's doing, and we all respective the fact that privacy is an asset that need to be protected in which bitcoin has taught us this and you can't expect the brain behind it (Satoshi) who has remained anonymous to come out of a sudden with the claim "i am Satoshi" i think Craig needs to undergo some psychological checks.

#WeAreAllHodlonaut

It is a funny world we live in, one in which an impersonator is suing for damages because reasonable people didn't take in his lies. This tweet and all the tweets and articles that expose the conman's lies should only be deemed unlawful and defamatory when he proves that he is Satoshi, which he cannot. Once he can prove to be Satoshi, whatever has been said against him becomes unlawful, but as he will never be able to prove that, they remain true and lawful to anybody with reason and understanding of what bitcoin is.

CSW's game is not now to prove anything.
its simply to cause social drama and try to sue (frivolous cases) people into submission/defeat by just pushing the length of court hysteria for as long as possible hoping those on the opposite side of CSW just give up and try to offer him a settlement or pay up.. in short CSW just wants to get money from them while provoking media stories.. and then to double that money by selling the story to media.

CSW promised his sugar daddy (ayres) lots of ROI for all the money ayres invested in CSW in the form of book deals, public speaking tours and movie deals

and thats why ayres is pushing this social drama forward and backing CSW, because ayres hopes one day CSW will pay ayres back

..
funny part of all this is
ayres pays for all CSW's costs upfront. EG travel to speaking conventions and court costs. but any £1+ amounts that CSW gets, doesnt go back to ayres. so ayres has to invest more into CSW to try making CSW famous to get ROI on the book deals/movies that CSW promised him.. even if that means that ayres then has to fund the movie budget hoping for returns on the ticket sales..

its comedy gold how this is playing out, that ayres is on the losing side but keeps losing by keep paying out hoping one day for a win.
if CSW was successful in law, fame, or running a currency. ayres should have been rich by now.. but he is losing more money than he has gained
..
on a serious note
CSW never cares if he wins or loses these frivolous/slapp suits it costs him(csw) nothing, sugar daddy(ayres) is paying the bill. his game is not about winning. its about drama provoking for fame by prolonging the tensions of the looming court dates. spreading them out over years hoping the other side gives up and settles with CSW whilst also  upping CSW fame rating in media
thus expect many more court cases and more drama to ensue no matter the results of current/previous cases.

my opinion is this:
we should help those fighting against CSW. but do it on the downlow, keep it at social media level. and try to get formal media to not emphasise CSW any more.
ensure things like coindesk and bitcoin magazine (the normal entryways formal media pick up the story) do not announce CSW drama. thus keep CSW out of the eyes of formal media so that he does not get any fame

oh and by avoiding CSW appearing in mainstream media. he cant then claim that any drama reached the eyes of millions of people. and instead keep his petty cries to how only 4k people seen the drama thus all he can get is things like £1

Damn it. Now I will have to delete all my posts where I claim that Craig Wright is not Satoshi. I don't want to get sued. Norway is too far away and the weather is cold af. ;D Craig(or his master) will have to waste lots of money in the court for so many pointless lawsuits. ;D


This is a pretty interesting story, but it doesn't make any sense to me.
What's the point in investing money into Craig Wright, since 99% of the Bitcoiners know that he is not the real Satoshi? It seems to me that his master is wasting money on his puppet. Is it because all this court circus creates FUD that might push the Bitcoin price down? Nah, I don't believe this. Nobody in the crypto world cares about CSW anymore.

dave you asked.. whats the point?
obvious..
GREED

ayres was duped first off into believing CSW and threw MILLIONS into CSW(before the world announced CSW was a scammer)
CSW could not repay. when ayres realised he was a scammer. but instead of walking away with tail between his legs licking his wounds and accepting his loss. he instead doubled down. CSW promised him returns in the form of revenue from selling his story and from awards of court from his patent claims and suing people.

ayres just wants to get his millions back so is playing along to fame up CSW in the hopes to get his millions back.
the funny part is ayres is still paying out millions to CSW games.
(if CSW was any good with money. they/he should be self funding or recycling their wins. but instead CSW is repeatedly asking Ayres for new money, extra money. which yep ayres wont be able to self sustain)

Can't believe this fiasco is still unfinished.

Huge respects to Hodlonaut and Peter McCormack for actually fighting this, knowing how much time and effort all this requires. Fuck CSW, but if I was in their place I would've most likely simply complied.

csw is so full of shit, feel bad for the guys having to fight his bogus suits.  Hopefully the way the other suits haven't worked out for csw can be cited and result in the same in this one.

We already know CSW is fake and if I have to vote multiple times then the answer is going to be same all the time.   That guy has already looted many peeps with the fake claims and unfortunately there are also followers of the same as you would say every devil has the gang!

Hodlonaut’s claim already has great points and their community is going to grow many folds when the court is opened and session starts. It would be interesting to see reaction of Craig when he goes down further the pothole.

Because he can't, because he has never owned the private keys to those coins.

Because it's the only way he has to continue this charade.

Satoshi's account is disabled. Even Satoshi himself couldn't log in to it, without contacting theymos with some proof and getting the account unlocked first.

Probably because Vitalik owns a huge amount of Ethereum due its pre-mine, and so could easily bankroll and win any lawsuit. CSW only wants to harass people who can't fight back. Hopefully with a big community backing for Hodlonaut, we can prove that everyone has the ability to fight back against his lies.

---

After the massive 47 BTC donation yesterday, in the last 24 hours there has been over another 1 BTC and $5k donated. Let's keep it going.

Imagine this scenario :

Satoshi Nakamoto sends some of his coins to a trust or a person that needs the help with litigation cost against the fake Satoshi. That will be the ultimate justice for a guy like Craig Wright. The person or persons that he says he is.... spending his coins to prove that he is not Satoshi Nakamoto. (If it was me.... I would even sign that address with a big FU Faketoshi message)  ;D ;D ;D

What people does not understand is this.... every court case or settlement he wins, adds more money to his pockets to file more lawsuits against more people.... "Will you be next?" ....

thanks to hodlonaut you are fighting for the benefit of everyone. and you are not alone. although we cannot provide direct support. but we are here to support you. You fight with tenacious and noble not for personal gain.

CSW is so embarrassing. the reasons he makes are very, very classic. the reason for the theft or the drama is very easy to guess.

Thanks for the post. It feels like a familiar name from some years ago, and I'll go through and take the time to read this -- mind boggling for me how someone like CSW and co have somehow embroiled themselves in litigation with so many people. I just hope spirit of law, and common sense, prevails for Hodlonaut, as it has in the past against CW.

As amazing and hilarious as it would be for Satoshi to donate to Hodlonaut, the signed message thing already happened. CSW provided in a previous court case (under oath no less) a list of bitcoin address which he claimed belonged to him. Most of these address were very early bitcoin addresses which had been inactive for years and which many people thought belonged to Satoshi. Very shortly after he provided this list, a signed message from 145 of those addresses containing a combined 7,250 BTC was published calling CSW "a liar and a fraud". Here's a thread about it: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5250960.

I find it incredible that this is not brought up more, particularly in subsequent court cases. His lies were definitively proven by a method which cannot be faked and anyone can verify. And yet here we are. ::)

It's amazing how persistent Faketoshi is in his intentions not only to prove that he is Satoshi, but also to attack anyone who claims otherwise. However, I am glad that individuals are opposing it, and even in this case in court, which is not easy for many of us, considering that our privacy and security are very important to us. I'm sure Faketoshi knows this very well and wants to make the most of it, as was the case with the Bitcoin whitepaper and the lawsuit against @Cøbra that Faketoshi got because @Cøbra didn't show up in court.


I share your opinion regarding those addresses, which I mentioned several times in my posts, but even the members of this forum do not pay much attention to it. I personally suspected that Satoshi did it, although it could be any of the early stage miners, but still someone who was very likely very attached to the project, and is still willing to defend it.

#WeAreAllHodlonaut

I'd kill (figuratively) for that outcome. Of all the possible event/outcome that would finally end CSW's fuckery, this would literally be the most amusing one — totally destroying all his remaining(and already-broken) reputation.

things like that should be brought up
as well as the fact that since 2015-6 thousands upon thousands of people were calling CSW a scammer meaning its now big wide public knowledge.

so trying to blame hodlonaut/ mcCormack as people that hurt CSW/damaged CSW rep.. is a moot point because its public knowledge that he is a scammer and thus the damage is already done many years before

but.. CSW does not care about any of that. no matter what disagreements can be fought, CSW just asks for an adjustment to the claim to progress the claim for another month with a new argument and so on. and that is his game. he does not care about the winning.. he cares about the poking and prolonging the irritation on the other side hoping they give in..

Donation made!

This is indeed a another defense of Bitcoin and everyone who calls out CSW as a fake because
he is libel to come after all of us.

See I dont get it, actually none of us gets it, how is CSW still doing what he is doing?

He is calling out Hodlonaut for essentially stating he is a fake. So in court CSW has AGAIN
to try and prove he IS Satoshi. He hasnt been able to before and according to the
Peter McCormack case he wasnt able to there either, Lets hope he gets his ass handed
to him again!

I don't think it was Satoshi who signed this message; rather just another early miner. If Satoshi is still around and wanted to end this CSW nonsense, they could simply sign a message from the genesis block address and/or their PGP key stating that they are not CSW. It doesn't make sense to me that they would risk revealing themselves by publishing a message, but not include the genesis block address.

This is not accurate. This upcoming Hodlonaut case and the previous McCormack case were only to determine whether CSW suffered damages from the statements made, and not to try to prove that he is Satoshi. CSW is very careful in this regard - he knows he would never win such a case, because he does not have the means to prove anything.

CSW court claims are not about proving the "i amd satoshi" thing
its all about him using and abusing the court system to claim that he had his feelings feelings hurt and that these public messages by people have ruined his reputation..

he knows he cant win the reputation. as that was tarnished 6 years ago by other people. so new people now tweeting and retweeting old news is not causing any new damage

however when new people do say bad things he can claim that these new attacks hurt him. eg claim they trigger depression or anxiety or blah blah

but thats not what his agenda is. he is not genuinely trying to get compensation from genuine ill feelings. he is trying to use and abuse the court system for fame and for building up an action plot movie story of drama and suspense and intrigue.

whilst also trying to cause drama to irritate other for profit, ofcourse

It is probably not Satoshi, although he too was only human who could make mistakes and lost access to data including the genesis block and everything relevant from the earliest period. In addition, there is also the option that signing such a message in order to prove that Faketoshi is fake would do more harm than good, considering that it would not only confirm that Satoshi is alive, but also that he still has control over all the Bitcoins that he mined - and some fear that more than anything else.

I hope that with all the donations, Hodlonaut will be able to find a very good and experienced lawyer who will be able to free him from all guilt and once again show what a miserable scumbag Faketoshi is.

@o_e_l_e_o @Franky1 - hmmm I see

but the case may not be directly about proving CSW is or isnt Satoshi
but the way I see it is that it could very well come down to that. If CSW issued a legal notice and
filed a complaint about Hodlonaut it wasnt because he was called a toilet scrubber.

Being called a toilet scrubber would be easy to prove was wrong, being called a fake would also
have to be proven incorrect.

* assuming this was the basis behind Hodlonaut's tweets

While one party might look to stay away from the whole Satoshi topic, the other will be looking
to steer the proceedings towards that very issue. IDK thats how I see it, maybe its wishful
thinking on my part.

he doesnt use the cases to prove legally and with finality that he is satoshi.. because he cannot..
.. obviously he is not.. so he cant.

however if he gets a £1 award in his favour for a case where its said that someone did damage his reputation. even if the judge wants nothing to do with proving if he is or not satoshi..
CSW will obvious tell his duped idiot investors outside of court that the "win" is proof. so that they are duped more into funding his next game

even if the law/legal system never made a judgement about "who is satoshi"

take the case about the tulip trust company(W&K) ownership dispute
it was not about "who is satoshi". nor was it about validating that the tulip trust had any real assets/collateral.

yep the judge made it clear he was not judging to prove that the company had assets.
yep the judge made it clear the case was not about "who is satoshi"

it was purely a company ownership dispute between 2 company owners(well the relative of a deceased co-owner vs CSW)

but CSW used that case to dupe his investors to say that it was proof of who is satoshi and proof that the tulip trust had real collateral..

CSW's ego got satisfied when he won the last case against McCormack but we could argue that he did not really win. The court did not focus on whether he is or isn't Satoshi but ruled that calling him a moron was defamatory. Craig wanted to prove the world that he is Satoshi and calling him out is going to mean losing in court but this last case shows that you can and should call him out just do it in a more polite way.

If I say that Wright doesn't have access to genesis coins and can't prove that he is Satoshi, therefore he most likely is making it up for fame is a completely honest opinion from someone unbiased who has nothing against Wright, but everything against frauds and liars ;)

I hope Hodlonaut wins this one.

I don't disagree, but there are far bigger issues than early coins being confirmed as not lost, such as CSW endlessly harassing every developer until no one wants to work on bitcoin anymore. Any coin which is not provably lost should not be assume to be lost. If Satoshi is still around and has the power to end this nonsense, then he should.

Don't forget that the judge very explicitly called him a liar multiple times, and noted that he had put forward a deliberately false case.

Do you think that Faketoshi with its actions is slowly forcing developers to move away from Bitcoin as it is the case with the recent announcement of Wladimir van der Laan and some other famous names (John Newbery, Samuel Dobson, Jonas Schnelli) who left in the last 1.5 years?

I sincerely doubt that even irrefutable evidence from Satoshi himself would stop Faketoshi from continuing to push his lies, because if he stops, he will only confirm that he lied all along - so I really wonder who all his victims will be - if he will start looking for a way to sue some members of this forum because we call him Faketoshi?

I am ready for a settlement in that case, because why go to trial if I can satisfy his mental pain in advance with one chocolate bar (McCormack - £1 = 1 candy bar) :D

Yes, you are right OP, because some of the documents of the CSW are not the real Satoshi documents, because the real document is with the real Satoshi, which he has the details to prove to court that he is the founder of Bitcoin with the envidence of his Bitcointalk  user account Satoshi. Based on his speech few days ago, showed that CSW has no good envidence to prove to court that he is the real Satoshi, because many people knew him very one in the community as a businessman that has no idea on digital currency in the environment.

I would guess that him being dead seems like a more likely situation. I am not saying that he is dead, but him losing all his keys and access to genesis versus him being dead comparison has the dead option a lot more likely. I personally believe it would be even smarter if he just knowingly destroyed all access, he has over him losing it. At the end of the day, we were doing something that is a bit scarier when we are talking about someone we have no idea who it is.

This is why I believe that we shouldn't be really be making speculations on someone that we do not even know about, is it a he, is it a she, is it a university group, is it a company, is it a government? We have no clue.

looking at his comments and stuff of the early years.
he did not see it as a get rich scheme for himself. he did not scream excitement about price, he did not show interest in announcing he had X coins

instead he was talking about if coins get lost it just means the rest of the coins other people have get more rare for everyone else

also when updating code. usually means copy/pasting over old files with the new updates. meaning old wallet files just get overwritten. so its more plausible that he just didnt keep the keys from the start because he didnt want to be a hoarder/investor. he just wanted the software to do its job

rather then thinking he is dead, its much more plausible that he just 'burned' his keys every time he done a software update by not backing up his keys

..
one thing to note
the actual satoshi had coins in 50btc amounts per address over LOTS, and i mean lots of addresses of 50btc. which can be seen from tracing the nonce/extranonce sequences
https://blog.bitmex.com/satoshis-1-million-bitcoin/

however. CSW list of addresses. were random addresses of large amount of cumulative coins random people/businesses put into the their same addresses(address re-use). whereby CSW only had to list a few hundred to display a  1m coin total

meaning CSW is not even using the list that would be associated with satoshi in the first place, but instead a bunch of random other peoples addresses.
when someone (well a few people/businesses) wrote that CSW is a fake using signed messages from csw list and its not csw coins that csw pretended were his. they were the addresses of random people/businesses.. where random people signed them messages, not satoshi

If he's still around he knows Craig cannot prove anything and is like that guy in a discussion who knows he's running out of arguments so he starts to scream at you.
I'd argue that Satoshi coming back to shut down Craig would, in the big scheme of things, allow himself to be the victim of Craig's trolling.

A king doesn't have to come down from his castle to address every single peasant who calls him a coward or says that the real king is John the swineherd.

Don't wrestle with a pig...

I wish Judge ruled against Craig there. He probably wanted to end the case for good and knew that if he allows Craig to win on paper there won't be an appeal. Now faketoshi thinks he stands a chance against all others.


If he ever takes you to court you'll get more than a candy bar in donations :D

you are correct. CSW would have gone through an appeals process. as you can see by the hodlonaut case, where things were getting dismissed, CSW filed an appeal to stop the dismissal. which is why the hodlonaut cases have been going on for 3years now.

so in the previous case of mcCormack the judge done the fair thing. after all that case was a debate over a simple tweet session with a judgement verdict resulting in no change to anything tangible in the real world of validating anything significant.. and instead saying yep CSW got hurt, but only to the amount of pain that a toddler would feel if someone shouted at a toddler, that can be remedied with a lollipop

so the judge ended the case and gave CSW what amounts to a lollipop to go home and suck on..

---

as for those wanting to know if real undeniable proof was shown privately to calvyn ayres as to CSW being who he claims to be..
well. calvyn did get real true undeniable proof(im being sarcastic)
https://twitter.com/CalvinAyre/status/1561002525699874816
so there we have it CSW provided proof. by letting calvyn talk to CSW mom

Have another read of the post by Greg Maxwell I linked to in the OP of this thread. I trust his judgement and statements on issues such as these, and here is what he has to say on the matter:


That's the thing though - CSW never had any arguments in his favor (no good or even logical ones, at least). But that hasn't stopped him harassing and continuing to harass a variety of bitcoin developers and other members of the community. This doesn't seem to be a fight which will be won on logic, since logically as soon as hundreds of addresses which CSW claimed were his signed a message calling him out, the whole thing should have been over.

thats his game though
he is not making claims that can come to logical conclusions. as that just results in quick judgements.
its the tactic of SLAPP..
the point is not to win or lose. the point is to raise a claim. get the defendant to try to defend against a pointless point. then ask to adjust the claim and repeat.

he wants those fighting against csw to need to pay for many hours of meetings with lawyers to add more costs per response. whilst all CSW has to do is without any cost, just think up a new argument to push as a new response to keep the case plodding along

OpenSats Legal Defense Fund so far raised over 54 Bitcoins and $35k from donations, but I think more important is big support he received from Bitcoin community.
I can't believe this Faketoshi circus clown scammer has nothing better to do in his life than to chase people who post something against him in twitter, it's so pathetic ::)
He even offered $5000 reward witch hunt for anyone who reveals real identity of Hodlonaut...

if CSW altcoin was anygood. he would settle and be happy making money from it.. but he knows its not profitable and so he has to make money else where to pay off his debts
CSW owes alot of people and tax offices multiple hundred of millions(nearly $150m just to the australian tax office alone, due to scamming them of R&D grants/rebates)

....
one note i find funny. is the case where he tried to get core devs to backdoor btc so he can rewrite the blockchain to move UXTO value to his address..
its funny because CSW declared BSV as bitcoin. and as such CSW has control of BSV so CSW can write a knew implementation for BSV to move the BSV utxo's to his address..
so if anyone wanted to argue CSW case about "moving 'bitcoin' to csw address. the solution is simple.. tell CSW to do it on the network he considers his true bitcoin..
he would have to either back down and declare his network dead/not bitcoin, to remain able to try fighting against the btc network.
or back down and just destroy his own network by doing the backdoor on his network

I read that post, but I was interested in your opinion, considering that they all cited some completely different things as the reasons for their actions without publicly saying that the real reason is what Faketoshi is doing. However, some things are much clearer now, because Faketoshi knows exactly where to direct his attacks and they obviously bring results - only one more question remains, is he doing it alone or does he have some very powerful allies operating from the shadows?

---

I remembered my old Twitter account and decided to provide support that way, and I got a reply from @hodlonaut - and I also linked this thread to him so he knows that he has support from the members of this forum.

https://i.imgur.com/SWTO91s.png

He already did that: https://bitcoinassociation.net/bitcoin-association-for-bsv-tulip-trading-ltd-settlement-statement-and-faq/
Not much to be gained from stealing a million coins of a shitcoin which is worth 1/500th of what bitcoin is worth and has no real volume so couldn't be sold to anyone anyway. Which is why he needs to continue attacking real bitcoin.

I'm not 100% sure, but even if you think CSW has had no impact on any developers yet, it is easy to see how one or more developers could decide to protect themselves from his litigation by either reactively or preemptively cease their involvement with bitcoin. It is clear CSW is being bankrolled by Calvin Ayre, and therefore has the whole CoinGeek entity and its employees doing his bidding and repeating/publishing what they are told to.

TBH thats worrying, people ^{generally speaking} should be more worried about this
scenario rather than any of the other array of Bitcoin worries which seem to be discussed on
the forum.

Couldnt the Dev's quit working on the network and just start working on it "anonymously" ?

Really veering off topic now but in the case of Cobra, how do you file a legal notice on someone
who's identity is not known? how do you enforce it if that person ignores it?

Hodling is part of the game. You want more profit you need to hodle. The more you hodle the more valuable it becomes. Hodlers are  high earners.

This is a sad scenario. I remember once asking on the forum why everyone not just ignore CSW and the other people impersonating Satoshi. I got my answer in that thread, on how they can spread narratives and with enough back up from the media control those narratives.
This situation further proves how I was wrong and people like CSW should not be ignored.

Would be following up the case and donating to Hodlonaut defense cause.

There is no point mindlessly spamming around the forum. You are already a member ranked user and would need merits, not only activity to rank up. Try reading before you comment.

well by not identifying/turning up at court.. the case is deemed undefended and thus the claimant wins by default

there could have been many strategies to play eg transfer website ownership
and respond that the website is no longer in cobra's control. thus cobra cannot respond or be involved as the website is nothing to do with him.
thus causing CSW to have to re-file with the new owner..

and let CSW then try playing "catch a possum" trying to communicate with the next owner..
where the ownership changes hands faster than CSW can file claims..

but yea mentioning tactics after a verdict, becomes redundant for that case. but an idea for future cases


(this tactic is used alot in cases involving motor vehicles. where there is a risk of having to surrender a car.. people put their car in other peoples names.. or in most cases only ever use a hire car so the car is never the accused persons property to be seized)

From the beginning i have comprehend your emphasis. But what i want to inform you, is that many people has made claims of been Satoshi Nakamoto in different occasions. No claim or evidence should make some of us to believe that this particular individual is a Satoshi Nakamoto.

Bruh...that was what i thought before this thread, but thanks to o_e_l_e_o and franky1, i now know better and have an understanding of what CSW's motives are, it is not about CSW claiming to be Satoshi anymore, he isn't, he knows he isn't and he feels many people are finding about his many lies, so this is more about staying RELEVANT than proving anything to anybody. CSW doesn't even want anybody to believe anything anymore, he may have run out of lies, so he tries to stay in the news, and silence people from calling him out online by suing those that do, wasting their money on useless lawsuits, and if we are sincere, not many people have that financial power to withstand a lawsuit with the conman, read all the thread you'll understand. This is a snippet from a reddit post by Greg in the op that sums it all up:

I was actually going to post about this, thanks for sharing.  First off, I've made it no secret how much I appreciate GMaxwell.  We are beyond lucky to have him here on this forum.  He's right there with all the top cypherpunks  (ie all the guys who are way more likely to be satoshi then Craig Wright could ever imagine being).  So good on him for this.

If that scamming piece of shit were to actually win this lawsuit, man..I will lose all faith in humanity (not that I haven't already).  This has probably been posted in this thread, I've not had time to read all comments yet, but Michael Saylor I believe donated 1 million to his battle versus Wright (make me want to puke just typing his name).

think of it more so as, he was, is and always shall be irrelevant. and there was, is and always will be nothing to believe about him

he always has been, is and will be a nobody.

we should not be trying to push his name into crypto media outlets, nor should those crypto outlets be trying to push him into mainstream media outlets.


Fixed that for you to ease your stomach
no one should speak his name, because he is irrelevant and not worth naming

the only moniker that is used is Compulsive Scammy Weasel
or any similar abbreviation that means the same thing

Convention Surfing Wannabe
Court S.l.a.p.ping Whore
Compost Slurping Worm
Copyright Stealing Wimp

you cannot defamate (defecate) his name if you never use his name
his reputation is based around his [self proclaimed profession title]+birth certified name, which no one mentions thus no reputational harm done

the smart plan is this
CSW is a pseudonym of a fraud, theif, criminal, scammer. trickster, idiot.. persona no one has or should meet
if anyone wants to name steal and want to associate themselves as being known as CSW so that they can try suing people for calling CSW a scammer, or[insert any insult]
they they are simply outting themselves as being a fraud/scammer by wanting to be known as being the scammer pseudonym CSW

Another excellent comment from Greg on the Reddit thread has answered this question for you: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/ws8wfd/starting_september_12th_in_oslo_norway_hodlonaut/il0gvgy/

You can still file charges against a pseudonymous individual, and you will win by default if they do not violate their privacy to defend themselves. Although you cannot enforce the rulings on that person, you can certainly enforce the rulings through third parties. In the Wright v Cobra case, this would have been in the form of all UK ISPs simply banning access to bitcoin.org. There is a statement made by Cobra after that judgement was passed available here, which answers this more thoroughly: https://github.com/bitcoin-dot-org/Bitcoin.org/issues/3698

It's certainly suspected that he was in the individual behind that donation, but I don't think it has been confirmed. Given that that donation was made anonymously, then I'm not keen to go digging to try and expose the individual responsible. If they want to remain anonymous, then let them.

What a sad world we live in, where one man has to defend his own word in court against a conman. Shouldn't his words be protected by freedom of speech? First of all we know that Satoshi never wanted to go public with his identity and profit from bitcoins through publicity. To all of us on the forum it seems like a no brainer that CSW is not Satoshi, but why is some media buying into this story even. Maybe it's more about the controversy that they like to report on and this lawsuit helps makes it even a bigger story for the media. I am glad the community is coming together to help Hodlonaut in these difficult times, he is not fighting for himself but for the integrity of the whole crypto community. We should not be giving in to conman and scammers. Hopefully this lawsuit will not be going on for too long and the judge will realise that there is merit for it and through it out.

though "drama sales papers"(old fashion clickbait)
if mainstream media call him a conman outright. they will see a court order to appear in their mailbox..
so they have to be more careful and say things like 'self appointed' or 'self proclaimed'

they dont really say "the proven and certified and honorary guy...X"
but saying the opposite leads to them being thrown into the legal hunting ground of the court system

this is why we should not promote the idiot to be worthy of a mainstream media story. not only so that main stream media have to use those careful words that make some people then think he might/must be who he claims to be.. but also by trying to keep his name out of media means he cant play his fame game for profit

if we keep him out of the public view, then the public wont find him interesting enough to want to learn more about him nor want to buy any tickets to hear his story, due to his irrelevance that no one cares about.

however by trying to spread awareness, heightens his fame and ends up encouraging people to want to learn his story, which means buying tickets to his conventions or his future book/movie deals.

we should support those fighting against him, but doing it in a way that does not stir more media drama in csw favour

Another thing Craig has failed to understand in this whole situation is that he is not the first to be claiming Satoshi and all the terms giving for him to prove that he couldn't, am very sure of Satoshi has his account on the forum here which has been inactive for some while, he should make publication about it and just make it active for once, he didn't need to bother with the signing of message through his address.


The real Satoshi couldn't have gone this far relying on centralized system to defend himself, Craig will definitely regret some of his deals with CoinGeek later



The shame here is that he might actually want to back off the case but the nuisance he had started has gone beyond his control, but instead of staying mute about it all he keeps further displaying how curious his stupidity is, there must be a media advantage he possibly aimed at getting in doing this.

It seems to me that Faketoshi is just a pawn in a much bigger game, and that someone else is making moves in an attempt to cause as much damage to Bitcoin as possible. Faketoshi has never seemed very intelligent to me, so sometimes I suspect that all this he is doing is not his idea. However, no matter how hard they try, they should be aware that by attacking any person who supports Bitcoin and the truth, they are attacking thousands or even millions of others who will not bow their heads and give up the fight.

Cobra perhaps best described how it will all end one day.

---

I just checked @hodlonaut twitter and it looks like Faketoshi has started attacking some famous CEX as well.

https://i.imgur.com/vOGEMXL.png
https://twitter.com/hodlonaut/status/1562364849199484928

One day I want to buy up the Bitcoin.org domain from Cobra so I can counter-sue Mr. Fake Wright to remove the injunction - exposing him for the impostor he is in the process.

Edit:

I read through the rest of the posts in this thread and observed that users who otherwise bicker with each other in other topic threads are coming together in solidarity for Hodlonaut. This is very pleasing to see, because it means everybody on this forum recognizes him for the fraud he is.

That's not a good statement to make for two reasons. First of all, the satoshi account on this forum is locked. No one can log in to it, even Satoshi themself, without theymos first unlocking it. Secondly, hacking in to a forum account is significantly easier than stealing a private key, and there are literally billions of online accounts which have been hacked in the past.

Signing a message from the genesis block address is necessary (but not sufficient) for Satoshi to begin to identify themself, if they so choose.

I'd mentioned before that a few exchanges host the whitepaper (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5346573.msg57451005#msg57451005), and a quick test shows that those links are still available from a UK IP address. Wonder why CSW hasn't gone after them like he went after Cobra for hosting it?

It would certainly be good to see the likes of Coinbase step up here and actually support bitcoin for once, instead of always undermining it for the sake of their own profits. The more defeats CSW racks up then the better for their own legal teams, and it is good publicity for them to be seen to be supporting the community too.

Or they can sign messages from the addresses of the list, then they can calculate Satoshi's block #0 private key.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5367558.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5367558.0)
One year ago OP posted a signature for the ECC sum of that list. Today we got the second signature.

No, they can't.

Completely meaningless. Anyone can do this with some basic code, modest hardware, and a bit of time - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5368214.msg58303553#msg58303553

I want to see a signed message directly from the genesis block address or Satoshi's PGP key. Not signing from a sum of various keys, not having one person say that you definitely did it, not signing using your own laptop in a private room and not allowing anyone to independently verify the signature, or any other parlor tricks. If you have the key you can sign a message. Anything else is meaningless.

I find it nice and reassuring to see the support Hodlonaut has got. I've seen today on Twitter some lines on the matter, but I didn't know the background; thanks OP for this topic.


If he would do this he would get - sooner or later - to fight somebody powerful enough and willing to defend himself.
If he would do this he would get even more websites hosting the whitepaper.


It would be interesting to see, but I don't have such high hopes...


That's correct. But we know that the chance for that to happen is slim. And this is also what Faketoshi is counting on...


Please don't pollute this thread with speculations already explained they're nonsense.

I wish Hodlonaut all the best. It's time someone wiped the floor with CSW. What that guy Calvin has to gain from all of it? Maybe I'm wrong here, but I feel like CSW is losing money with every project. He has to fly to these court hearings, he pays lawyers, hotels, and he can't win anything. I'll consider him extremely lucky for not losing a case, like really losing, the way that he'd have to pay damages to the other party. His luck will eventually run out because that's all he's relying on. We all know he's not Satoshi but a master bullshitter.

It looks more like an elaborate scam plot between them both, where one funds the scam and the other is the public face.
They are both heavily invested into Bitcoin SV, controlling a good amount of the total hashrate(with Calvin owning far more) last time I checked. And also, they have tried to discredit bitcoin and prove that Bitcoin SV is the actual bitcoin.

The end plot as I see, is CSW hoodwinks everyone to accept him to be Satoshi, or at least gets a legal document proving him to be so. From there, I would imagine an attempt to usurp the bitcoin network and establish Bitcoin SV, which they already have large percentage of.
This is my limited knowledge on the case, from reading some thread about it.

- Jay -

True, but he's already going after the likes of Coinbase and Kraken for "misrepresenting bitcoin", as Lucius shared above. Wonder why he's not going after them for hosting the whitepaper like he did with Cobra.

But it shouldn't matter. The burden on proof is on him to sign a message, not on Satoshi to sign a message calling him a fraud. If you make a claim like "I am Satoshi" and provide absolutely no hard evidence to support it, then you can and should be ridiculed for such a ridiculous claim. It's Russell's teapot. You make the claim, you prove it. The fact that he has been allowed to get this far with absolutely no evidence or proof is shocking, and partly the fault of the all the crypto "media" which keep giving him the spotlight, repeating his nonsense, and not calling out his lies for what they are.

And on top of that, even although the onus is absolutely not on anyone else to disprove his unsupported claims, we still have screeds and screeds of evidence showing his lies for what they are, including not least a signed message from 145 addresses he claimed belonged to him calling him a liar and fraud. What more can we possibly need?

Perhaps they are each running one of the two BSV nodes which are actually at the chain tip. You read that right; a grand total of two nodes at the chain tip: https://nitter.it/hodlonaut/status/1562500694359539712 ;D

I've been wondering what Craig Wright intends to prove if he can't sign a message from the vintage wallet that holds the >1 million BTC. Craig should just go and rest his head, except he's trying to tell us he knows the whereabouts of the real Satoshi Nakamoto. My support is to Hodlonaut. I've followed some of Hodlonaut's tweets and of a truth he deserves our collective support at a time like this.

He's obviously on a smear campaign. I'm still surprised Binance hasn't been tagged yet. You know what they say about a drowning soul, he will cling even at a straw for survival.

That question can only be answered by him or maybe by those who make real moves from the shadows and use Faketoshi as their main tool in this dirty game. Obviously, the time when a lawsuit will be filed is carefully chosen, and it seems that the time of the bear market is judged to be the best because then there is the least focus on Bitcoin, unlike the bull run.


It would be really nice if they did something, although like some others, I don't really have high hopes that they as a company care too much about Bitcoin in the sense that they would defend it from Faketoshi. Of course, profit always comes first, even if it means they have to enter into a pact with the devil - but let's hope that reason will prevail this time.

---

As far as I saw, CZ showed support for the @Hodlonaut, and even mentioned some kind of fund that could be established for cases like this, of course under the auspices of his company.

I hope during the court proceedings Craig will be able to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he is actually satoshi nakomoto otherwise he should be properly charged for perjury. How can he file a case under something that is completely false! this guy has no limit it seems. Hodlonaut will definitely have the full support of the bitcoin community including me, there is no room for the likes of faketoshi to soil the beautiful creation and legacy of a genius in our generation.      

such easy cases to win (for DCG (btc))
these cases are about exchanges representing BTC as bitcoin where Mr BVS(CSW) says his 2017 invention is bitcoin

response should be (in laymans terms*):
btc has been around since january 2009 (insert all evidence to prove)
the real bitcoin inventor of the 2009 code release actually allowed and gave permission for all things bitcoin to be published on bitcoin.org (including whitepaper)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=437.msg3807#msg3807
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=238.msg2004#msg2004

insert evidence that the real inventor called it BTC
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1790.msg28715#msg28715
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1976.msg25119#msg25119

evidence that the real bitcoin inventor helped services that only used the bitcoin(BTC) network  back then and now (blockexplorer)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2162.msg28533#msg28533
(slushpool)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1976.msg25119#msg25119
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1976.msg25207#msg25207
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1976.msg25207#msg25207

add in all evidence of the real inventor name dropping alot of devs, and then looking at the network which all of them devs where helping to code
(insert all the other services and devs that worked on bitcoin 2009+ to show time line that BTC is bitcoin and BSV is not bitcoin)

..
and the nail in the coffin the evidence that BSV only came into existance post 2017

*obviously the DCG lawyers(of bitmex,kraken,coinbase) can snazz up the legalese wording and be more precise and concise.
and hopefully spin the court claim into a case where CSW now needs to prove that he actually was 'satoshi' via actual signature proof

That would have been seriously hilarious but I don't suppose this will happen, however, reading through the Reddit post, this section also caught my attention, "Government, the usual suspects" just my thoughts though, is the Faketoshi another form of them trying to bring Bitcoin down? plus I would have thought this is the simplest case to close in any of the courts since he has not been able to prove that he is Satoshi at any one time which I believe should be a point to prove.

There seems to extensive support for this fight as yesterday my twitter feed was full of such tweets and there are some collection also being sold for the fund raise to help the legal filings of @hodlonaut for the case and it is really amazing to see such support from the people who understand the reality.

They are really concerned with their own profits and fighting for the cases on them for being anti privacy exchange to pay off the damages to the users.So don't think they will ever come across such open statement to defend themselves and carry on with their personal profit growth only.

That's the thing as he can't even sign a message from the address of genisis block or his PGP key which is why he tries this media shit to prove himself but in reality he has proven himself the clown he is who is making false claims only and can't prove anything and will never gain access to the funds he is looking for.The case he won is well known that how our judicial system can be financially manipulated but what after he runs out of funds and he can't prove anything? He will be behind the bars then.

He can try these shits like having paid person spreading rumour and trying to convince people in the shit they believe and we all know they are paid fake actors like him:

https://i.postimg.cc/WpdhxMcW/Screenshot-20220825-183154-01.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Source  (https://twitter.com/davidzmorris/status/1562086919881760769?t=Tsxe6_PbAT_j9Hiv6UIBcA&s=19)

So he is trying to prove himself what he is not and the only one basic thing he can't do already denies all the facts he made in front of people and the world will know his reality those are in his side will also move on.

Yes it is, and it is a support that should come from anybody who is at all passionate about bitcoin, ignoring CSW made him hold a stronger stance in the media and to people who are not informed about bitcoin, and the stronger he is, the better for him to easily spreak skewed information and misguide more people, that is why Greg said:
If the bitcoin community allows CSW and the people that assist him spread his lies to gain complete hold of the public narrative and media, then he can cause great damage, not to the network, but to people who love the network, to the developers who are working to ensure the endless growth and progress of the network. He has already started, as Greg said:
So the support is necessary, and hopefully it increases.

---

He is not trying to prove anything, he wants to stay relevant so his lies remain fresh and in the "front pages and clicks".

I can't believe that a delusional scumbag like fake-toshi (aka Craig Wright) is still among us. Such disgusting people usually run afoul of the wrong people at some point in their life and either screw themselves legally to the point of imprisonment or worse.

I think he has mental problems which is why he is so starved for attention to the point of publically making a fool out of himself.

I am definitely on the side of the poor guy he is suing. But there's no way in hell fake-toshi will win. In fact, I hope he gets what's coming to him for putting someone through such emotional distress. ::)

My guess would be thar "misrepresenting bitcoin" is vague enough and can be twisted around so nobody loses, while the whitepaper case is clearly a losing scenario, since Coinbase will defend themselves if they have to.


Unfortunately people don't read much, people rely on news for getting informed and even learn something (they believe so). Unfortunately for many the advertising is more powerful than the hard facts because they don't get to find out about the hard facts. And on top of this comes the courts in various countries giving strange verdicts (see UK/Cobra case). And the cherry on top is that people were trained by the media to treat bitcoin and bitcoiners as scammers, hence the hard facts, even if it's math, get ignored.


Of course that one of their goals is to make people believe their (probably centralized) shitcoin deserves to get valued as highly as Bitcoin is. That would make them rich forever.

An interesting read from op.
What thing about Bitcoin is that many of us see it as no man's business. If we can make a living or get rich by it we move one and don't mind much about it. That is why Bitcoin is always being bashed like an orphan. He is always guilty of all crimes since it has no single face of its own. If everyone could stand up and speak up, maybe we could tell all the scammers, imposters and spreaders of lie against Bitcoin to shut up in courts. If we do it for sometimes, everyone might have to behave well towards Bitcoin.

I mean that type of messages are good enough to know that he is not. But why do we assume that we expect him to actually prove it? Or even have the fact that he doesn't even believe in it himself? Or doesn't want to convince you neither. The point is that we are talking about him don't we? I mean nobody talks about me, wish the world did talk about me as much as they did about him, but that doesn't change the fact that it doesn't.

So all in all, we are talking about something that shouldn't really be worrying us because his entire plan is to make sure that we are talking about him and that is why he is achieving what he really wants in the long run.

He can't prove anything. His goal is to harass.

There is no wallet which holds >1 million BTC. There are thousands of early coinbase addresses all holding 50 BTC. We do not know for sure which belong to Satoshi and which do not, as CSW discovered himself when he claimed that he owned a bunch of them which he thought were linked to Satoshi and therefore had a very low chance of being proved wrong, and the real owner immediately signed a message from them calling him a fraud.

Yeah, I saw McCormack retweeting a tweet from CZ back in 2019 talking about helping with legal fees: https://nitter.it/PeterMcCormack/status/1562362012017074176
I've not seen CZ mention Hodlonaut recently or donate anything though. Correct me if I'm wrong?

Speaking of, remember back in January when Jack Dorsey said he was setting up a fund for this reason too: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2022-January/019741.html
Any word from him about a donation to Hodlonaut?

I think you're right, someone just posted that very old tweet as one of the comments on one of the recent hodlonaut tweets, apparently I missed the date. I looked at CZ's twitter and there are no posts in the last 10-15 days regarding the specific case, although his opinion about Faketosh was very clear in 2019, and I don't believe it has changed until today.

https://twitter.com/cz_binance/status/1116563034476957699


All I saw was that Dorsey's last tweet was exactly a retweet from hodlonaut asking for help, so we can say that he gave him public support today as well as 3 years ago. We can only guess where the biggest donation came from, and Dorsey is certainly one of the potential candidates who could have sent it.

https://twitter.com/jack

As usual from the big exchanges - all talk, no action, and nothing which might mean they have to spend some of their precious profits. Very disappointing all round.

I really don't think they would, in terms of the whitepaper case. When faced with the choice of paying expensive legal fees versus simply taking down the .pdf of the whitepaper they host, I would fully expect them to choose the latter without any fight whatsoever. Coinbase supported every major attack on bitcoin, from Bitcoin XT to Bitcoin Unlimited to Segwit2x. They won't spend money to defend bitcoin - they will only spend money to defend themselves and their own profits.

you do know that the DCG is all of these entities
coinbase, LN, blockstream(core, UASF), bloq(XT, segwit 2x), barry silberts NYA, plus lots more centralised services like chain analysis

which side are you on again?
are you pro
core/LN/blockstrema(segwit,UASF)

or are you anti
coinbase, chain analysisblocq(xt segwit2x)

because they are all funded by the same team

---

yes DCG dont really want to fund courtcases defending against the annoying social drama SLAPP suits of CSW
they dont want their business reputation publicised into silly court drama that has no positive benefit on their business

heck im even starting to wonder about the recent devs migrating out of blockstream in recent years and then once released suddenly on their own having to fight CSW claims. where it requires donations to cover the costs.

i too think coinbase, circle, blockchain.info, ftx, etc etc would rather not display the white paper. because there is no big fee/commission/profit in displaying it.

but as stated in a previous post i made. it would be an easy case to win to actually defend that the real inventor was calling btc bitcoin and was using bitcoin.org to supply the white paper and was linking btc to many services and exchanges and pools as bitcoin. .. thus defeating CSw arguments.

but it seems many websites/services  are shying away from that fight. where as individuals are left fighting it

There is a difference between owning a company and investing in a company. DCG invest in dozens of bitcoin related companies. They also invested in Ripple and ZCash. That doesn't mean that Ripple "is" DCG, nor does it mean that Blockstream "is" DCG.

Regardless, such discussion is off topic here. If you want to discuss this, please take it somewhere else or open a new thread. I'd like to keep this thread about Hodlonaut.

I agree with this, which is highly disappointing as I said above. The exchanges which made their millions billions because of bitcoin, which profited handsomely from Satoshi's creation and all the work of all the devs who have come since, won't put up a fight or even donate some money to those who are, and are quite happy to let CSW run rampant with his frivolous lawsuits. Meanwhile the individuals with nothing to personally gain but everything to lose are the ones left fighting CSW, with support from the community, while these exchanges continue to turn a blind eye.

I actually want CSW to start suing some big exchanges and force them to get involved, rather than letting other people fight their fights for them.

the reason i brought up the DCG group. is because although you want to separate them and NOT think of them as a big entity that could devastate CSW
.. you should think of them as a big entity that could devastate CSW

dont play coy defending DCG by saying its ok they are this and that, pretending they are not a controlling power house. then somehow end your post that you wish they were was some mystical other big fighter against CSW..
how about start by wanting THEM(DCG) to be a big entity.

plead your case for how exchanges and services should take up the fight. use your buddy echo chamber at its best to echo that message to your idol in many repeated messages over months poking the single entity into reacting.. (the same game you try playing against me).. take turns poking DCG.

if one fails.. jsut lie the games you play here, let the next buddy just happen to turn up to regurgitate the same narrative as if its a new topic. and poke again., repeat until bite and then push more.... you know the trick. you played it enough on the forum..

actually be more involved in your loyalty games and use them to your favour of contacting your idols and using your years of loyal outreach games to actually get your buddies to come together to push your idols

dont end your post with a wish. about hoping to find some other hero entity fly in to help the fight

..
businesses can claim that his actions are causing business losses and reputation losses because he is claiming that they are selling misrepresented product, or that [insert any claim]
and start slapping CSW before CSW slapps them

..
waiting for CSW to file claims against a company. is not helping.. and also being on a defence of a CSW claim where by not responding=instant win for CSW. is not good. and also defending whatever claim CSW makes and then alters in later responses is a never ending game in CSW favour..
being on the defence is not a good first foot to be on..

however if DCG got its many dozens of businesses to file many dozens of claims against CSW, then its then CSW that has to do the running around

In all the countries you'll find businessmen funding politicians from all the parties (and maybe all the parties too). This ensures them a spot on the winning side, no matters who wins, but doesn't mean they believe in all of those (it would be absurd). They may not even care, as long as it's a good business and the invested money gets returned plus some extra (in a way or another).

I think that it may also be the case here, hence bringing DCG into discussion may not be actually relevant.


Would this be a good business for them? Would it pay off?

CSW has already filed a claim against Coinbase. It will be Coinbase who are spending their money to defend themselves against that claim, not DCG. DCG, being an investment and venture capital company, will have no interest in spending their money to fight a lawsuit against any of the companies they are invested in.

If we want big entities to get involved here, it will be the exchanges that CSW is already targeting. It would be in their own interests to donate to Hodlonaut, as a decisive Hodlonaut victory will only help their own cause when they end up in court themselves.

CSW is foolish and believes he can actually win a lawsuit against a billion dollar exchange...

He's picking on someone his own size (Coinbase). But I suspect that he's going to walk away from it with a bloody nose.

here is the thing..
when a business is actually a sole entity. then it is STUCK with limited choices..

however coinbase is not stuck.
EG if they dont have a legal defence team 'in house' that specialises in intellectual property and defamation (because usually a exchange doesnt handle that, so doesnt retain a legal team specialising in that) doesn't need to "hire" a new team. instead they can use a team which its sister companies already have for their other projects

coinbase can borrow the intellectual property specialists from one sister company. and use defamation specialists from another sister company(saves money, tiime and allows for cross information sharing if other sisters also get targetted)

where DCG which has ownership stake in coinbase and possible future targets can organise things and prepare for any oncoming storms with the other sister companies.
 
rather than what you propose is that exchanges just wait for CSW to attack individually and file claims and then have the exchanges individually fight only with newly retained 'inhouse' legal team, separate from its sisters...
which individually costs the targetted company more to use, and also means they cannot share tactic/strategy..
as that yet again is fighting him on the wrong foot (defence)


but hey. seems you always want to take things the long route round and he most complex way, that always falls outside of logic and common sense

Whatever about filing legal claims against individuals like Hodlonaut, taking on Coinbase
and Kraken is a real game changer IMO.

We all hope Hodlonaut is able to wound CSW but I would imagine its the might of Coinbase
which could end CSW's persistent claims?

He really has a neck like a jockeys ar$e, but I would say he has a false sense of success. Hopefully
Hodlonaut can cause the first wound and Coinbase finish the job and Kraken to bury it.

most large businesses dont let things go to trial. they discuss out of court settlements outside the court reporting or responses.

though in my opinion i would love to see the DCG organise a full on legal team that combine the kaken coinbase efforts on this side(less costs)(one plan structure.) but then use the multiple claims as a way to strike back at CSW in a multiplied way.

EG CSW think he is playing 2 games of one on one tennis
but reality is he is a single tennis player trying to play tennis, against a football team with a captain(DCG) where they are all kicking balls at just 1 guy defending a goal(CSW)

I looked at what's happening on hodlonaut's Twitter and I see that he sent a question to both CEOs whose exchanges are being sued and as far as I can see, he got a response from Jesse Powell, who instead of a donation suggests some kind of NTF fundraiser, which according to him is the future of collecting donations - as if it wasn't aware that more than 57 BTC and $55,000 have already been collected. If I understood correctly, he would donate even 50 ETH in that case... To me, this is a more than clear message of how much he cares about Bitcoin.

https://i.imgur.com/FrcfQHk.png

https://twitter.com/hodlonaut/status/1563522922937208832

Looks like he has pledged to buy a NFT for 50 ETH, but won't just donate the money directly. So essentially using Hodlonaut's legal situation to shill his NFT project? Ugh.

As much as I despite all CEXs, I've had a lot of respect for Jesse Powell over the years as he is always open and honest that people should get their coins off of exchanges as soon as possible, and that any coin left on any exchange, including his, is at constant risk. But this Twitter exchange is in incredibly poor taste. Would have been better to say nothing at all rather than say you'll only donate if it's via some NFT scam.

Still, if you want NFTs, then there are some on bitcoin right here: https://xchain.io/tx/755e758e74f7c95f049deb5106fc9315234bc7ccce0817a8e34d16b089d7593f. He can convert his 50 ETH to ~3.7 BTC using Kraken and buy 740 of these for the same result.

Literally thousands of regular people donating whatever bitcoin and fiat they can afford, but this guy worth $500 million will only donate if he gets to shill some NFT while doing it. ::)

many people making real art and displaying it in galleries in cities to sell. end up selling for alot less than what an ETH is worth,...


the crap of games of NFT is to try to sell crap for expensive amounts of double digit ETH.. just so they can set a level of what other crap NFT should expect to sell for.. so by trying to sell an item for 50 ETH  is not about getting a large donation for a good cause. its about using the cause as a clickbait advert to then hype up that a crap NFT is worth a lot of money, as a way to keep pushing that anything made using NFT should sell for a large double digit amounts even if the item is crap.

kind of shameful to use a scam to fund a defence against a scammer..
.. it puts a bad taste in my mouth that defending against a scammer is done by using scams

Talking of ART, I have listed a raffle in the collectibles thread to create some funds
for hodlonaut's defense. Based on a project I did
recently, I'm raffling of a
limited edition self made book and a limited error print but
no tickets sold yet so I hope
its ok to post here too for a bit more exposure ?

< remove if necessary >

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5411419.0

It sounds so incredible that at first I thought that I had misunderstood something, but I guess it is more than obvious proof that all these big players do not care about Bitcoin to the extent that they would publicly defend it, but are looking for a way to profit from such cases. Fortunately, there are many ordinary people who have helped and will continue to help, because we all care more about Bitcoin than various CEOs who are just looking for new ways to earn more.

---

https://i.imgur.com/yg2r4O6.png
https://twitter.com/hodlonaut/status/1564572821271052288

6 days until the trial begins, and the donation fund is now up to over 70 BTC plus $64,000, taking the total value of the fund to just short of $1.5 million. A great effort by the community so far, but plenty more to do. I'm certain that if anything is left over then it will be used to help other individual defend themselves from CSW's frivolous lawsuits.

Looks like Jesse Powell did buy one of the bitcoin based NFTs in support, although the 0.005 BTC cost falls a bit short of the 50 ETH donation he pledged: https://nitter.it/jespow/status/1566912208281317376

Also some other big names coming out in support, such as Braiins (Slush Pool), River, and Swan, although disappointingly still ongoing silence from the likes of Coinbase.

I think I read in some tweet from hodlonaut that he talks about an amount of even $3 million as something that would be enough in every possible outcome. In any case, it is a very large amount and I hope that so much money will not be needed even if the verdict is unfavorable for hodlonaut.

I can't say how many donations was collected from some famous names, but some of them surely want to remain anonymous in order not to become the next target of Faketoshi. Maybe it's not so bad, although the public support of big companies would be nice at least as a moral support. Now that you have written what Jesse Powell donated, maybe it would be better if he remained silent like Brian Armstrong - but if they turn their backs on Bitcoin in this way, maybe the crypto community will repay them in some other way.

Maybe. But at the same time, when CSW is already bringing lawsuits against the likes of Coinbase and Kraken, they really have nothing to lose by supporting Hodlonaut, and as he points out, a lot to gain in their upcoming trials if Hodlonaut decisively wins this one.

I doubt it. Coinbase are already one of the most anti-bitcoin organizations in existence. As I pointed out earlier in this thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5410629.msg60840318#msg60840318), Coinbase have supported every major attack on bitcoin in the past, and only reversed their position at the 11th hour due to self preservation rather than doing the right thing. And that's even without mentioning their fundamentally pro-surveillance and anti-privacy ethos. Hell, they hired individuals which were complicit in human rights abuse, including torture, and used them to set up their blockchain analysis subsidiary. And yet the crypto community still have no problem using Coinbase. Anything that happens between Coinbase and CSW will be absolutely irrelevant in terms of attracting new customers.

If supporting a company complicit in actual physical torture isn't enough to stop people from using Coinbase, then failing to stand up to CSW will mean less than nothing to such people.

Wow, that's interesting! Indeed, I stopped caring about what CSW is doing or saying years ago, but it seems to be much more serious than I thought.
CSW is actually attacking the whole of Bitcoin through corruption and court systems, just to fill his own pockets. That's utterly disgusting.

Just to clarify (as I'm not a Reddit user): nullc is the author of the thread and those longer replies and nullc == gmaxwell?

And... Hodlonaut == Hal? :o

---

Hopefully, between now and the time Hodlonaut has to pay their bills, Bitcoin price will reach previous levels, so those donations may cover the $3m that seem to be required.

Edit: Donated through Lightning.

Correct. Verification: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=765936.msg8634218#msg8634218

No. Hal passed away 8 years ago.

I'm sure he already has forked out substantial amounts in legal bills in all the run up and preparation for this case, but yeah, here's hoping for a bull run before he has to spend the bulk of these new donations.

Cool! I'm always glad to read Greg's stuff, so I'll bookmark his account over there.

What did OgNasty mean with that comment though? I thought: maybe a new conspiracy theory. :-X

Even Braiins joined (https://twitter.com/braiins_systems/status/1566814267021590530). Time to put Wright in his place...

So the trial has begun.

Here are a couple of Norwegian bitcoin users who are in attendance and will be tweeting some updates as the trial progresses:
https://nitter.it/kristiandoble/
https://nitter.it/bitnorbert

According to bitnorbert, so far we have just had the opening statement from Hodlonaut's team. His latest tweet so far is interesting - an analysis from KPMG stating that some of CSW's documents (not yet clear which ones) are fraudulent. Will be interesting to see what comes of that, especially give the outcome of CSW's last trial where the judge found CSW "not to be a witness of truth" and made a "deliberately false case".

Well here we go, this is going to be like a football match but in slow-motion...

Referee (judge) slight screwups that have a decisive impact on the outcome are always possible.

At least this judge knows not to ask CSW for an oath (under penalty of prejury).

https://i.imgur.com/ZuOY8mh.png

Quite the interesting balance. As someone pointed out in the comment, the more the lawyers, the more wrong you are.
Facts are immutable, and CSW has none of them on his side here.

- Jay -

I read that apparently Bitcoin Magazine were given permission to film (https://nitter.it/Arthur_van_Pelt/status/1568708603304984579) the trial, but I see no mention of that on their website or Twitter, which is a shame. Would have been great to be able to watch for ourselves rather than relying on Tweets.

From bitnorbert, it seems Hodlonaut's team are bringing up many of CSW's previous lies - the fake Sartre signature, the KPMG analysis, now his falsified blog posts. And perhaps this tweet explains why CSW has an enormous legal team with him: https://nitter.it/Pat_McCat/status/1569273798352052225

Never stopped him before:

YES - here we go, hodlonaut's team have come out ALL GUNS BLAZING and bringing the
judge up to speed with Bitcoin and some history regarding Satoshi and then on the shady
history surrounding CSW's previous deceptions.

The memory stick from a BBC reporter is interesting and the KPMG report is a great strike.

Following > https://nitter.it/bitnorbert

Thank you o_e_l_e_o

The value of this post, according to the manager that pays for this signature, goes straight to Hodlonaut's Lightning wallet!  :)

He probably meant the real Satoshi wins in the end as he, along with lots of others, presumes Hal was Satoshi. It makes a little sense if you think about it. Satoshi disappeared when Hal was diagnosed. Hal was the first person to make a Bitcoin transaction. Hal had been working on Proof-of-Work. A person named "Satoshi Nakamoto" was living near his area. Still though, not even close to evidence.

https://twitter.com/bitnorbert/status/1569219672754757632

https://twitter.com/bitnorbert/status/1569220917644955649

:D first shot aimed at CSW. perfect hit
hope it hurts CSW

Here’s another good guy/thread to follow - very up to date

https://twitter.com/kurtwuckertjr?s=21&t=63pDIpCVQPHja8ieZdQwPQ

I'm not sure I follow why this is? Surely whether or not CSW is Satoshi (he isn't) is core to determining whether or not Hodlonaut's statements were libelous? If the judge rightly finds that CSW is not Satoshi, then any statements saying he is not Satoshi are not libel are simply become a statement of fact (legally speaking of course, since such statements are already factual).

This individual is employed by CoinGeek (which is a BSV shill site owned and operated by Calvin Ayre) and lists himself as the founder of a BSV based company in Florida, so expect a very biased interpretation from these tweets.

Lol. We are still on Hodlonaut's opening statement and already CSW has started his shenanigans.

How many times will the Faketoshi team mention GA and his support when he was convinced that CW was Satoshi? I will never stop being amazed at how a (for the most part) brilliant mind like Gavin Andresen turned out to be a big fool for supporting him at one time, although I will always find it very strange that Satoshi collaborated with him at all and left him with too much influence.

---

https://i.imgur.com/G8EKthP.png

Let the judge take this into account and compensate the mental pain of our doctor Faketoshi with, say, 1 satoshi for each disputed tweet - that is more than fair considering the past verdict - in 10 years, Faketoshi will collect enough for a whole box of chocolates :D

the judge wanted to make it clear that CSW was not to use the trial verdict as "proof of satoshi" if the verdict was to give CSW a win

its not a case of getting to prove he is..
its about hodlonaut having an opportunity to prove that hodlonauts comments are fair description of CSW (scammer and fraud)

eg
imagine i seen someone with obviously dyed ginger hair. and i insulted them
its not for them to prove they are naturally/born ginger.
nor does a verdict in their favour mean they are now biologically in their genes ginger. nor is it even about them being temporarily ginger

basically. if i know they dyed(faked) their hair to be ginger. and i called them a "fake plastic orange" .. thats fair i win

if while ginger. i said "eww your a dirty blonde" where it some how lost them their job or lost them money. then i lose.

its not about getting the person i insulted to prove they are a real ginger
nor does any verdict win/lose/draw mean it proves that person is a real born ginger

its about was my insult a fair representation of what i can see and based on available evidence what i can believe to be a informed opinion about the person i see as being a fake ginger where its evident that many already thought and know he is a fake ginger, and that calling him one is just matter of fact freedom of speach

Anybody wants to bet 0.01BTC that the judge will rule in CSWs favor?* [Naturally, I will bet on the opposite outcome.]

*The final verdict, after all hearings and arguments and counter-arguments over the possibly many days have been concluded.

He is following the case right there in Norway but, he's a paid shill for CSW working for coingeek
Why does CSW need 9 lawyers to defend him, if he is Satoshi ;D? a lot of reporters are shilling for CSW, hodlonaut has 2 lawyers lets see how it goes down.

kurt is 100% sniffing the bvs coke
full on bsv addict and not ready to go clean
even if its harming his health and wealth to stick with bsv

he just done a youtube about today. and didnot talk about the details of the stuff said in court as a play-by-play. instead he just wanted to talk about the csw story of how he believes csw invented bitcoin

i gave up watching the video after the second time he wanted to mention the story according to csw

^
Yea I' m not going to be following that, I was thinking It would be interesting to see what the
'other side' are reporting....
....but then again, I couldnt be bothered.

So yea I'll stick with bitnorbert. Its great to get the running commentry.

Yep - he’s a BSVer , paid by Calvin. But, I wanted to see how CSW and team would be spinning the trial blow by blow. I was waiting to see how they would absurdly twist the facts to spin it . The tweets are very much factual though - read them - admittedly I haven’t seen the YouTube vids .
Faketoshi and team will be spinning this for a win, even if they lose. This court case is just one of many I’ve been following and in every case , wether he loses, they’ll shill it as a win.
Faketoshi is unfortunately a full blown narcissist and will never accept he is wrong/unfactual or Satoshi.

kurt spent more time talking about the layout of the court room and how well groomed and dressed they were.
then spent 5 minutes talking about how hodlonauts team were mentioning the CSW past (but he worded it as if hodlonauts team were describing CSW as if csw was involved in bitcoin in 2008)

he then said "for all those not up to date with everything.."
and then went on a rhetoric of how in his bias view he feels how the history plays out where he began with the silly stuff of pretending CSW was involved/thinking up bitcoin as far back as 2005(facepalm) .. i stopped watching at this point.

its was basically a publicity video of fake biography creation.. not a court room drama play by play of what was actually being said in the court room

Lol - I’ll presume he’ll be doing YouTube shit every day and I’ll try to catch it when I get a chance , but I’ll definitely be following as many Twitter threads as poss as well as this thread  :)

watch Kurt for examples of lying scum comedy entertainment

but look at
twitter.com/bitnorbert for more of a play by play of whats happening in the court room as it happens

"I have tried my best and hid the fact that I have been running Bitcoin since 2009," reads part of wright's transcript
Unfortunately, the accuracy of the transcript is questionable, including the place where the interview was conducted. The phrase, 'run' which means the process of mining Bitcoin using a computer is also still unclear. (https://www.viva.co.id/digital/digilife/709706-mengenal-craig-wright-terduga-pencipta-bitcoin)
Which is so weird......
is the support behind the scenes of Wright who is so sensitive to finance a truth that is still ambiguous and unclear, it can even be said to be 100% a falsehood.
although Wright will pay for their cause if they win the court but in truth the supporters are blind and sheer arrogance, because the public will not believe the inventor of the digital currency Bitcoin, Craig Steven Wright.
 And I hope the court closes the case file because there is no accurate evidence and gives strict sanctions for admitting to the inventor of the digital currency Bitcoin, Craig Steven Wright.
This case is still going on not because of Craig Steven Wright but the people behind the scenes
according to me...

How could CSW say such a thing is it that he doesn't understand the basic properties of the bitcoin blockchain?

https://i.gyazo.com/3b921dd07e0e175794ab7fc0a6815fb8.png

It's simple: the judge also doesn't understand them, so he feels safe to tell all kind of weak lies.
Isn't this all he has done on court until now.. with some notable success too?

todays court stuff is CSW's side to talk. and it seems the narrative being set up is this(my opinion of narrative)

(im pro hodlonaut but writing what it appears the CSW side are trying to say)
from 2017 hodlonaut has had a financial incentive to remove competition from the markets by getting things like BSV delisted
where hodlonaut or people beleived to be him under different names set up challenges and campaigns to attack BSV
CSw lawyers mention

looks like CSW team now trying to set the drama of fake biography to try to turn case into a on the record biography of "proof of satoshi" using witnesses (later this week) to say they knew he invented it (facepalm)

seems he wants to use witness testimony as "proof of satoshi"

..
oh and some basic law facts
in civil cases(which this case is) perjury is not a crime. perjury is usually punishable in criminal cases not civil.. which is what i feel CSW is counting on

Not much of interest so far this morning it seems. After Hodlonaut's opening statement yesterday, it's been CSW's turn today. From the various sources I've been reading, it's just been the usual CSW trash like trying to justify not signing a message but signing in private for select individuals. Interesting that none of these individuals are being called as witnesses. I wonder why?

His lack of basic understanding is long standing and well documented. Another fine example was when he did not know addresses contain a checksum.

Thats the thing, it can become so technical that the Judges can become boggled with
the understanding of the finer workings of Bitcoin.

I dont like how the waters are being muddied with words from hodlonauts unrelated tweets like:

Our protagonists should change the course of the topic, by telling the judge that these messages are unrelated to the claims of ad hominem against CSW! Someone should get in touch with them.

There is no chance of this affecting anything going on in the courtroom. We can only hope that the lawyers know what they are doing.

Right. We are like bystanders observing a "special military operation" unfolding. :(

All the so-called witnesses suddenly fall ill during the trial, which is also the case with uncle Lynam son who was supposed to testify. Speaking of witnesses, do we know if anyone will testify in favor of Hodlonaut?

https://i.imgur.com/ifzfM9m.png

Makes sense.  Feigning illness is vastly preferable to perjuring themselves, heh.  Best to leave that to the expert who has a proven track record of somehow getting away with it each time.

obviously all these witnesses are just paid shills
everyone on CSW side dont actually believe his narrative, they are just financially motivated to play along or suffer losses/threat of losses if they dont
(as noted by that kurt twitter guy that reported on cases.. being told by CSW lawyers during the miami case to watch what he says(admitted in his video yesterday at about 30 minute are of video)

im starting to think gavin signed a contract. when deciding to retire from bitcoin to just take a payday from some muppet offering money for a nonsense thing (not realising the after effects of how big the nonsense thing would blow up) and part of that agreement is to not de-nounce it fully or speak much of the private conversations apart from the script handed to him as part of the deal.. else be penalised with a breach of contract requiring gavin to pay CSW a larger amount..


and perjury is not a crime in civil which is why craigs team can say all they like. the worse that can happen for being caught in a lie is that the judges rules in favour of hodlonaut (no prison time for lying in civil court)

if caught in a lie then the result is to just lean the case in favour of the one thats not lying..
so its upto hodlonauts team to catch CSW in his lies.

the other thing about using lawyers is that the lawyers can say anything they like. because lawyers are not giving factual testimony. they are deemed as just hearsay witnesses too.. setting up the story/narrative

its why defendants never take the stand or never talk in police interrogations and instead use their lawyers to do the speaking. because the lawyers can say literally anything and its not treated as evidence. and its upto the other side to then disprove the lawyers words just to sway judges mind in favour of the honest party about which narrative sounds more realistic to win the dispute
(in civil cases)

..
CSW has always wanted to do his "proof" in a court and not using real proof. because although many people think law is about truth and justice.. civil court is about dispute resolution and finding agreement to a narrative that settles a dispute. even if the end result is not the truth. its dispute resolution not truth finding

Finished for today. Nothing of any surprise from CSW's team. Talking about CSW's lack of basic understanding of bitcoin and cryptography in general above, here is another hilarious exchange: https://nitter.it/bitnorbert/status/1569671044662689794#m

As everyone knows, signature files are completely unnecessary as long as you double check the URL you are downloading from. There is absolutely no possible way that anything could possibly go wrong or be tampered with. That's what we tell every newbie, right? "Who cares about PGP, cryptography, or even the very fundamentals of good security. Just double check the URL and then do whatever you like." ::)

But that is contradictory because they presented CSW's credentials


I was a bit lost today, was following throughout the day but a lot of stuff went over my
head, stuff I'm not clued into link the Lynam people.

↓

Yes, ATM I cant watch the footage but I plan to do so towards the weekend

Here's an actual footage from the trial:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG4LWWnT48M

We're waiting... ::)

Just so you know, the real satoshi had a much firmer command of the English language.  Your impersonation is rather poor.  Wholly unconvincing.  I doubt you are going to provide any attempts at a signed message, but even if you did, I would presume it fake and immediately look to debunk it. 

Go find another forum to troll, plz.

https://nitter.it/bitnorbert working overtime today, with pages and pages of tweets already. I'll summarize so far briefly below for those who don't want to read them all themselves.

Started with Hodlonaut himself being questioned. He pointed out the absurdity of CSW's private "signing" session, as well as the broad consensus throughout pretty much the entire crypto ecosystem that CSW is not Satoshi, specifically mentioning both Vitalik Buterin (Ethereum) and Charlie Lee (Litecoin). Mentions how BSV is scamming people by calling themselves "Bitcoin", much like BCH did/does via bitcoin.com. He thanks the bitcoin community for the overwhelming support he has received. There then follows a lot of discussion regarding individual tweets, and more discussion about Gavin Andresen.

It then moves to CSW being questioned. He states that he was incredibly hurt by the tweets, and for an unclear reason talks about Hitler and Nazis. CSW then seems to rant about scaling, Lightning, and Monero's fluffypony, again for unclear reasons. Then follows some weird claims, such as he wrote the whitepaper using voice recognition, that he had to dumb it down after receiving feedback from others, and that bitcoin became too expensive to mine. Everything gets a bit messy there, likely due to CSW's ranting as opposed to bitnorbert's transcription. It seems the voice recognition statement might be to try to explain why he previously used the term "Bit Coin", when Satoshi never used that term. He also goes on to deny all knowledge of a lot of things, such as the back dated blog posts and altered emails which he has previously tried to lie with, statements he made attacking Hodlonaut, and statements Satoshi made which directly contradict things CSW has said.

Will be interesting to see what the judge makes of all CSW's evading of questions and just saying "I don't remember" to various things.

that alone should be the nail in the coffin

"friends" paid to visit him and made to sign an NDA with further payment to stay on script or penalty for going offscript.. is not friendship


CSW doesnt know how bitcoin or cryptography work.

CSW trying to use bribed/blackmailed people as "proof"
..
dig your hole deeper CSW, the drama funeral will be excellent

It's only the first time CSW has spoken, and it is already unraveling pretty quickly here.

Lol. Lawyers being scapegoated for his lies exactly as was predicted.

So he doesn't remember when it was, but knows it was just after he came out of hospital? So he has no records of that hospital admission? He has no idea when that hospital admission was, despite 20 minutes later saying that some emails couldn't possibly have been written by him because he was in hospital at the time? Lol.

Hahahaha what? Note that question wasn't from one of Hodlonaut's lawyers - it was from the judge. Seems like she is also seeing through CSW's bullshit.

The fact that Hodlonaut is getting so much support (not just financial) surely hurts Faketoshi the most. Although I have to admit that I am a bit disappointed with some of the members of our forum who cleverly avoid this thread, and apart from you who started this discussion and another member who put the address for donations in the personal text, I did not see a single avatar or anything similar in support Hodlonaut. It seems that many are afraid that they too could find themselves in court face to face with Faketoshi and his 9 lawyers.


That GA, as I already noticed, is someone whom Faketoshi will persistently mention, and I wonder again why the hodlonaut lawyer team did not call him as a witness - because if I'm not mistaken, at one point he changed his mind about CW being Satoshi. Instead of helping Bitcoin, he is literally dealing with shitcoins on his Twitter...


It reminds me of the current situation with the war, because when you have no other arguments, you mention Hitler and the Nazis and the eternal struggle between good and evil. Maybe Faketoshi wants to say that he is only fighting against evil, no matter how crazy that sounds from the perspective of anyone who knows what this is about.

Mind editing this into the OP? It could save some a few minutes searching through the pages for where it was posted when they want to get back to it at a later time.

That is a very crap answer, shows little thought or regard for the audience, particularly the bitcoin audience.
Even with the benefit of the doubt, is getting 100 witnesses, less time consuming than multiple trials or less expensive than paying the bill of multiple lawyers.

- Jay -

heres the thing, CSW doesnt care. about what he says or does, or anything. he is just a ass on the seat just there to let the press get some action

win or lose is meaningless to him. proof or no proof is meaningless to him

he doesnt even care if he has 1 lawyer or 20 lawyers. or if he has to travel to places or go to court on a weekly schedule

because.. (big picture)
he is not paying for this out of his pocket. his fanbase are. the people he conned are paying the lawyers and CSW's hotel bill.
he made fake promises that they will get returns on their donations to his games in the form of his stories he can sell

to him, he he is just on vacation via someone elses expense, drumming up his fame to garner more people into paying for his lifestyle

for him its a media event to get his name in print more.
for him its him trying to say things to convince his fans that they need to pay him more.
for him he is just trying to annoy everyone outside his fanbase hoping they too will just pay him to go away.

---

we see these game sin other silly communities
(flat-earth /climate denier /covid denier)

there are different groups of people
1. the ex doctor/ex employee/someone with notoriety. doing convention speaking tours saying what ever script they are paid to say.
they dont care if they say one thing to one person and the opposite to the other. because they are getting paid 2 times to say 2 things and all they care about is the payment

2. the the conspiracy nuts
these people are willing to pay to have some person of notoriety/accredication/reputation to echo chamber the conspiracy nutters mindset. it does not matter the topic if a nutter has a thought he would pay to hear someone else agree with him.

3. the sucker/loyalists
these people want to suck up and show loyalty. they donate or pay in or use their own labour as payment to join the plot in hope that they can get returns on their money/time they put into it.

4. the oppertunists
these are people that have been asked to be involved and think its a good deal. get paid to go on vacation for a week meet someone sign some NDA and say something and get paid for those words. they dont care about the aftermath of how those words are then used, they just accepted the free holiday and payment for their words

..

the big picture game of CSW is he doesnt care about "proving satoshi". his gravy train wont earn anything from that. his income is about stirring the drama to get more people to just pay him for just turning up and saying "something". it doesnt matter what has to be said. whether its saying he is satoshi, whether its saying he knew satoshi, whether its denying it. whether its counter arguing previous statements. each event is a payday.
he can say he is male on monday, get paid. female on tuesday, get paid. argue monday didnt happen get paid. argue that there are no genders on thursday and then argue there are only 2 genders on friday. he does not care about the conversation or words said each day he just cares about getting 5 payments for 5 things

KEEP THIS IN MIND when trying to understand CSW.
you dont need to understand why he says things. because he does not care what he says

I find that answer very telling.  The only conceivable reason an identity thief would want witnesses in the room with them is if they're planing to perform some sleight-of-hand in order to make a fake signed message appear real.  Simply publishing a signed message for anyone to validate doesn't give him any opportunity to manipulate his audience. 

It would indeed be very time consuming to find some gullible marks who would still fall for his schemes.  He's not lying about that.   :D

LOL. We the peanut gallery should raise a few voices and point out that we will happily witness his [non-]signing of a message. We'd easily get a hundred pairs of eyeballs watching him.

Or just we don't believe that an avatar with a linked personal text can actually help the situation? Come on, you can't seriously assert that.

Isn't this crap realized by the court? I'm a little late to the conversation, and haven't pay much attention. Can he claim identity ownership without providing the cryptographic proof, according to the law? Have the Hodlonaut's lawyers provided proof that he's a liar already (or plan to)? That list of signed messages (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5250960.0) should be sufficient proof.

Frustrating, I only managed to follow for about an hour this morning, the day job is
getting in the way again. trying to catch up.

Seems like the Judge has a bit of knowledge and shows she can smell something is not right.

I wanted to post this below which everybody should question. I really hope the court can
see through all this as easy as we all can. He is contracting himself below.

LOL; CSW, the first person who requires 100 people to do a cryptographic signature! ;D
I thought you just need the private key and an unambiguous cleartext message to be signed.. 0:)

I didn't see the part where he says he needs 100 people to do a cryptographic signature in the video I watched, but maybe that was him saying he's already done it in front of Gavin (which was proven to be incorrect) so how many more people are needed?

The judge doesn't seem to be buying it.  I think, like the rest of us, if he's satoshi he's going to have to prove it with the keys. 

Not your keys, not your coins seems almost directed at CSW at this point.

I haven't seen the video footage yet; I just found this statement / quote hilarious.
Apparently he's claiming that it's easier to go in court, because the other solution (signing a message) would require 100 witnesses.
Why not just sign a message and publish it for anyone to verify?

Even with keys, it's not guaranteed, but it is required at the very least.
I'd personally say that if real satoshi actually lost his keys or something, and were to come back, trying to convince everyone of his identity, he'd just be shit out of luck.
He would need to not only sign something publicly, but also add more factors like knowledge about certain emails that only he can know and stuff like that.

Who exactly is paying CSW? The Bitcoin SV folks?

Day 4 has kick-started with video evidence as well as witnesses, first of which is Torbjørn Bull Jenssen, CEO of Arcane Crypto.
He gives his opinion that CSW is unlikely to be Satoshi:

Starting off to be another positive day for Hodlonaut, more like yesterday was. And there was a lot to show of the character of CSW in those videos^[1] shown.

[1] https://piped.mha.fi/watch?v=0thnCDgRJfM


- Jay -

Done.

Here it is: https://youtu.be/_zkweFcpQMs?t=13936
He is essentially saying that as soon as he signs a message, that no one will go to he effort of putting together 100 witnesses who will all attest to him being Satoshi. Because for some reason a handful of easily fooled or easily bought people is more reliable in his mind than cryptographic proof. ::)

As a bonus, here is my favorite snippet from the video: https://youtu.be/_zkweFcpQMs?t=11926
He doesn't want keys to be required to "access the blockchain", but rather wants judges and law enforcement to be able to do this. Well, that certainly sounds like Satoshi to me. As we all know, the first line of the Whitepaper clearly states "A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another with the approval of judges and law enforcement." ::) ::) ::)

Edit: Actually, here is my favorite snippet: https://youtu.be/_zkweFcpQMs?t=10087
I wrote this when I was drunk.
You wrote this?
Yes, when I was drunk.
Because it says it was written by Kleiman.
.....silence.

Lol.

I think we all know the answer to that one. :P

Will be interesting to see what today brings. From bitnorbert's tweets, Hodlonaut's team has already started out strong with video evidence of previous CSW lies.

Wow, what a language. This is borderline uncivilized and no less than more proof of discrepancy between his and satoshi's identity.

Also hilarious why he doesn't 'want it to be over quickly'.. :D Almost / barely slipped (that keeping the whole situation in 'limbo' is required for him to buy time & fool more people).

Do you know these situations when reality is funnier than actual comedy? This is it!

mainly calvyn ayres
but pretty much these guys
https://bitcoinassociation.net/team/
 and a few others since then where CSW has been spinning up new companies to then grab in more investors

I don't think that my actions can change much in the specific case, but if I helped some people find out that this trial exists and in what way they can contribute, I think I helped. In addition, you don't want to say that advertising on this forum is worth nothing and that all those who pay forum members for their signatures, avatars and personal texts are wasting money?

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OT - Your personal text "The winter is coming" is certainly strange to me, because it is something that Russian trolls on the forum persistently imply in the sense that Europeans will freeze next winter. I know you're not one of them, so don't get me wrong.

Apparently, not for the "real", "legit" Satoshi. Next up: Move BSV without a signature, just because the judges say so. Lol.

Some don't want to spend a personal space for it, that's all. And I believe it helps very little to advertise Hodlonaut when about half of the Bitcoin Twitter already does.

Maybe I find it likely.

the only truthful thing i read today.. from the guys of CSW "witnesses"
how matthews says he CSW and ayres all met up in 2015 to start to actually do something related to bitcoin..
..
all the crap about the "drafts" white papers they "might" remember. "alleged" to have seen was the lies

none of them seen him do coding, mining, trading or anything in 2008-2014 related to bitcoin

(the 2015 is where CSW started his crypto scam of seeking investors to pay off his ATO debt, and first starts telling people he was involved in bitcoin. )

Yea I found all the witnesses on hodlonaut's side really interesting, knowledgeable, educated
and to the point ^{thats the way it cane across on Norberts commentry}

I found CSW's side frustrating, and vague. How can anyone verify anything that they talked
about today, pure nonsense and all smoke and mirrors. I lost interest pretty much after the break

In the war of words that is court cases, the judge should have cryptocurrency specialists brought around to testify the true nature of (technical) stuff in their rumors like sign message.

Seconded. Could have cleared up issues like this^[1]:


[1] https://nitter.it/tim_bitcoin/status/1570262124743766016#m

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Court Proceedings have resumed with hearing witnesses and this particular one caught my eye:
Bitcoin as: A system which appeals to banks and acts as a middle man between banking institutions.  ::)

- Jay -

Interesting to watch and listen full unedited Faketoshi Craig Wright Full Testimony, this was recorded and released by Bitcoin Magazine and it's almost four hours long.
I recommend following Bitcoin Magazine youtube channel and their twitter account for more updates in next few days.
Funny thing I noticed in some inserts is that Faketoshi made some big mistakes from inserts I listened.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zkweFcpQMs

Latest update for Day 4 with Witnesses Take The Stand in Hodlonaut v Craig Wright:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYLhvycBEQ8

Who has win the Case , CWS or Hoddlonaut ?

If CSW win the case what does it mean and how does it affect the freedom of speech ?  I was watching when CWS was giving his testaments of false claims. He was sweating in the cold Norwaygian Court of Justice. 

 Now the main question is what will happen when finally the Courts of Justice will find that CSW lied in the courts in order to decieved the legally stem for his greedy motive for fame and profits from the investors ?

Thanks for that, I will watch some of the vids at the weekend. I' m following every day
on @bitnorbert channel as most others are. Today I didnt even bother following the rest of
CSW's nonsense witnesses. Just tuned in a bit late to the KPMG session and OMG they are
really spilling the beans on the amount of fakery involved in CSW's documented claims, its
too much to even copy here....

This is where I joined ...

So far no one, as far as I can tell.

If Craig wins, I guess bitcoin dot org becomes his?

Jail, charges, some other penalty; the satoshi identity is safe, which is all that matters in the end.

I have lost some faith in justice, but I doubt he'll win the case. Hodlonaut must have some well-paid lawyers there.

Can't wait to see the video of this. Some of these tweets are pretty damning.

https://nitter.it/bitnorbert/status/1570743058203037697#m
File CSW claimed was from 2008, using a font not introduced until 2012.

https://nitter.it/bitnorbert/status/1570746535000043520#m
File CSW claimed was from 2008, metadata showed creation date in 2015.

https://nitter.it/bitnorbert/status/1570752651259949059#m
Emai CSW claimed he sent to Kleiman in 2008, headers show sent in 2014 (and Kleiman died in 2013).

Also some input from another user:

Nothing but lies and forgeries.

Yes, I've also read someone in the reputation section recently but can't remember their name. People are so naive that they say they created bitcoin and don't even understand the basic function of bitcoin take a look at Digitalmonk in reputation section you'll find them.


Satoshi left the forum and if I remember correctly then the account satoshi was hacked and then locked by the admin theymos permanently just like lauda's.


There was a believer of bitcoin who expected this price of 50k/BTC will be hit and he talked about it briefly, I can't remember the user and topic.

I'm a bit stoked reading about all these edits - KPMG have unearthed quite a lot of tom-foolery

You are right. I am fully agree with you. The Bitcoin White Paper is written by me. CSW is His Holiness Reverend Pastor Dr Craig Steven Wright. He is great artist of an impersonator. Any way it was my plan ahead.

@Hoddlonaut twitter account I created in April 2007, Jack Dorsey has  changed the year by inserting 1 in the place of second 0. Who ever win or who ever lose it won't create any impact on Bitcoin.

Silent followers/readers of this thread like me (until now) would appreciate it if you stop trolling here.

I'm still catching up.

Imagine satoshi doesn't know that cryptography is much more than 'encryption'... and that he doesn't know about digital signatures as an integral part of cryptography, after having designed the most popular electronic cash system, completely based on digital signatures.... :D
I hope the judge notices all these lies - my impression up until now is that she does!

This is ridiculous! No way the judge is buying that, right?

What a signing session, huh? Look at this; valid checksum, but no valid signature.

Craig Wright created ECDSA?  ::)

How can he be so delusional, trying to convince the judge that he creates signatures by just hashing a message a bunch of times? Ridiculous.

They showed this in court! Brilliant. Such a classic.

https://piped.mha.fi/watch?v=cKbPNFUHLYM

---

Reading 09/15 now and 09/16 later today.. 0:)

to explain the social drama history.. of the supposed keys

7 years ago CSW conned people about some signed document that (supposedly) dave klieman signed that he seen $m's of dollars of value. which was apparently according to certain things revealed years ago just a txt file of public keys that (supposedly/doubtful (after death back dated)) kliemen signed as proof of collateral for tulip which then gave W&K some perceived value for investors..(in short no one seen a file of private keys or signed proofs of transactions or signed messages )

.. this then changed story(circa 2016-7) to how the actual private keys were on another printed document with some courier who meant to turn up in 2020.... hindsight now..  who didnt turn up in 2020(no shock)

then it was that the keys were in a trust where the guys were multisig(we know 2009-2013 keys were p2pk/p2pkh.. not p2sh(multisig)
thus that story didnt last long

then he said the p2pk keys were spliced.. where each guys numerics were split into parts using an algo where he kept the algo but the trust had divisions/splits of the keys

then it became how the algo needed some key to work with the splices where he has the key(hmac)

and most recently story that from the genesis.. all keys are derivatives(child) of a parent master key

yea. his story changes depending on who he talks to and what season of the year it is..

I saw CSW's posts, he seems a fraud from his very posts. Now this happens when people come to Bitcoin not for contributing meaningfully to the community but with intent to only make money. We respect Satoshi not because his works are still helping us to earn but because he was a visionary of his time, someone who liberated economy from clutches of bank....hail Satoshi. Hail bitcoin

Welcome to my ignore list. I don't think you're satoshi. Neither you nor craig wright. Satoshi would never call himself moses.  ;)

I hope hoddlonaut wins and proves that CW is not satoshi!  :)

The people that know CSW isn't Satoshi already know it and do not need any court victory to prove it, the people that have believed CSW's lies won't change their mind because of the outcome of a court case. So Hodlonaut's victory, if it comes will be for us, the bitcoin community to celebrate a victory over the biggest liar against our network, and it will probably slow him down on suing bitcoin developers and enthusiasts when called out for constant lying.

Phrases like this always stink of: (a) no idea about Bitcoin, or (b) deliberately trying to fool someone.

From its very first version, Bitcoin Core handled the 'private keys' for you through the wallet.dat file. And there's nothing hard about 'handling' this file whatsoever!
I know y'all know this, but want to just jot it down so that it's completely clear. When we talk about 'private keys' (managing them, custody of them and backing them up) - most of the time, it's not about working with the keys themselves directly, but usually this term means either the wallet.dat file or a seed phrase. Again, there's nothing complicated, obscure or hard about handling a file or a bunch of words.

To make 100% sure, I even just downloaded Bitcoin Core v0.1 and grepped for 'wallet.dat'.

Sure enough, this is how even Bitcoin v0.1 stored and handled the 'private keys'.

---

I think visualizing private keys as either a file or a set of words takes the abstractedness out of it (especially for newbies), and easily clears up why phrases such as 'could not handle private keys', 'lost the private keys' or 'afraid to use private keys' are all bullshit.

I was looking at his face when the Judge called him come forward to give his Fake_Testament. He was very much broken with a kind of fear.

Finally he said, that he has destroyed the private keys plus all the slices in his hard drive and two dungle sticks drives. So he has no access to the private key of Satoshi  Blocks. Well, any body who lies feel fear of getting caught by the cross exeminers. Now, he thinks, that either Hal Finney or Dave Kleiman may had the Satoshi Blocks Private keys and they are dead, so his story will fit that there is no one who have got the the Satoshi's Private Key. So he is trying to fool the bitcoiners by designing this case to use the court to grant him permission to break the Bitcoin Blockchain by the court order. This interesting but the most interesting is that Jon Matonis and Calvin together have hired Craig to play this fiasco.

CSW has no knowledge of actual Bitcoin Protocol. He and many  bitcoiners also thinks that Satoshi might have lost his hard drive or his computer got  rushed. But truth is, it is Bitcoin Jesus will reveal the secret, and you all know AGD who is the keeper of the private keys.  But Satoshi is just does not have any interest to access to his  Bitcoin. CSW said in 2016 2nd May that he does not want fame and money, so why does he want the court to give wrong order so he could use his 3G power to destroy BTC.

I thinks the Bitcoin community need to organise a case against not only CSW but against all Faketoshis. It now better to organise a Satoshi Nakamoto doxing conference to cross examine him and any one who is claiming to be Satoshi.

He announced that he need to gather 100 men to give prove of witness that he created Bitcoin. What he said is that every Bitcoin community leader are doing drug dealing with Bitcoin and he want the court to give him the right to cease 200 millions computers that have Bitcoin Blockchan and Node.

But in some way, I like CSW's capable credibility and I am wondering why he does not invite Bitcoin Moses to will against the False messiah Bitcoin Jesus ?

Only  Bitcoin Moses can prove that Indeed Bitcoin Jesus and all his Alt Coin disciples are Fake and false.

G

Come on! :D You don't (incrementally - implied) 'improve security' of contemporary electronic money schemes by throwing a blockchain at them.
We all (and hopefully the judge, too) know that blockchain = Bitcoin. A chain-like structure alone is not a security-improving mechanism that can be used to 'improve' security of an existing system.

Sure, Bitcoin is more secure than what we had before, but not because we 'improved' that system by adding a 'like a blockchain' looking structure to it; Bitcoin replaces the legacy monetary system as a whole, and the blockchain structure is just one of many mechanisms that make it secure.

Wow, centralized logging = blockchain? How much are these qualified people paid to claim they can't tell the difference between box-standard centralized logging (newsflash: every single company on the planet keeps logs about pretty much everything going on on their servers - CSW would not be a genius for implementing this) and a decentralized blockchain?

Supposedly, Craig's cousin mined Bitcoin on his CPU until 2011, but GPU miners killed CPU mining in 2010, no?

Diagnosing autism in adults is actually not even a thing. Like, there are questionnaires and stuff, but you can only really diagnose it in children.

This sounds to me like someone who doesn't know much about autism, trying to describe autism. A good friend of mine has been diagnosed with it at child's age; they do very much have emotions, empathy and all that. As far as I know, the issue is mostly about expressing and interpreting feelings, not about not having them at all. The reason they may get distracted less is definitely not because they 'live in a world of things, not people, emotions'..  ::)

I noticed this a bit as a 'pattern' so far, though. A whole bunch of (Craig Wright's) witnesses described things like they are shown in movies or simply how most people imagine them, not like they are in reality.
Especially around the technical stuff. Like Craig supposedly having a datacenter in his home or claiming that it's hard to 'manage your own keys'. The latter was probably envisioned to look something like this:
https://i.postimg.cc/1X993Hzp/image.gif

---

To be honest; all the statements about when who first met whom and when they did what together, ... I can't verify. But when they say one word about technical stuff, it gets interesting.. :D

Edit: Done with 5/5 days. I didn't know about all those faked documents / fake evidence. Impressive.

in short. he didnt like being called a sociopath so needed some other fake diagnoses to cling onto to explain his lack or morals. something that he "felt" others would sympathise to.. and use as a medical defence if ever caught doing immoral things


as for all the forgeries..

well based on investigated info from everywhere apart from CSW (mtgox leaked accounts, ATO filings, company registration docs,)


back in 2011 CSW met with dave kleimen for the first time to discuss cyber forensics. CSW had no bitcoin and nor did dave.
they set up a cyber forensics company in 2011(W&K) to try and get some R&D money from US homeland security budget(CSW inspired idea suggested to dave to help dave cover medical costs) to start some cyber security software for the US defense department.. 4 applications failed. and both CSW and dave parted ways.. didnt talk..  (dave was put in hospital for 800+ days due to medical reasons . and was released from hospital to pass away at home within a month (april 2013.)
CSw didnt know at this point as they had not really talked in a couple years

around this time CSW got reintroduced to bitcoin by someone else after the 2012 price jump from $2 to over $100

craig bought his first bitcoin using the last of his free life savings
he bought 48btc for ~$5k in april 2013(yep not a rich guy)

where CSw started to reach out to Dave again to hear what he has to say.. but

CSW learned about daves death a week after the death
and thats also when CSW started getting wild idea's about starting lots of bitcoin related businesses and passing them off as related to his recently departed old "friend"

and thats when CSW started back peddling the defunct W&K brand to become bitcoin related with all the forgeries..
(even Ira seen many of the 'dave document signatures' as being suspect. backdated and signed in a females signature handwriting style(not daves))

in short CSW had no bitcoin until 2013 and dave had nothing to do with bitcoin.

CSW started his bitcoin games as of april 2013 ..
but kept failing
he even trued to use the W&K brand to get R&D money from the autralian tax office for some IT vetures he had in mind(but never flourished as usual)
and got into real debt by early 2014 where the australian tax office started really sniffing into CSW multiple failed companies

 the rest is just drama..
of debt and forgeries to try evading debt repayments by going deeper down the scammer rabbit hole inventing new companies to shift fake collateral between, that he never had, suggesting to people that he owed money that he was good for it because (well yes he pretended he invented bitcoin and had loads of coins)

.. very short..
anything bitcoin related and CSW related pre april 2013.. dont beleive

 Let us join him to fight to ensure there is justice at the end of the judgment. Since Hodloanaut stand on a solid ground to defend himself and all bitcoiners in the community, it will be better bitcoiners join him for other people to know that the community is too big to be defeat because all the evidence that will make the case to favour Hodloanaut and bitcoiners are there. I believe, the community will do everything possible within their power to support Hodloanaut to make sure other people learn lesson from this judgement that bitcoiners are in a solid ground that can never be destroy by any man or group of people.

Which is kind of the point, I guess. The only "evidence" which is in CSW's favor is things which cannot be verified. Private "signing" sessions, testimonies of friends and family members of things which happened in private and of which there is no hard evidence, his claims about stomping on hard drives, etc. All the actual evidence which can be independently looked at and examined - previous statements CSW has made in writing and on video, the forged emails and documents, the fake signatures, etc. - all show CSW to be the fraud that he is.

Twitter user DanDarkPill has made a great little video of my favorite snippet of the case from yesterday: https://nitter.it/DanDarkPill/status/1570289532838506496#m

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Due to my own oversight in failing to make this thread self-moderated when I created it, I have elected to lock it and to create a new self-moderated thread to continue the discussion without spam and trolls here: Hodlonaut Trial (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5413844)