Bitcoin Forum

My BTC savings have lost much value this month, and I know why. We all know. It's the FTX's debacle. Some say it's doomsday for cryptos, but it isn't. There's nothing wrong with BTC. What's wrong is that one crook has stolen honest people's money to make shady investments.

There's only one solution to restore people's confidence. Put the bad guy in jail for a long, long time.

It will be a miracle if he does any jail time, let alone spending many years in prison. After all, he didn't sponsor both Democrats and Republicans for no reason.

I don't think Sam will have a bad day. I think the market will continue to move horizontally for 6 months.BTC

That's where all his donations and connections come in. We'll see if politicians will treat him like a hot potato, throwing him from one hands onto the other until finally it cools down enough to be handled, or if the money were able to actually buy him some favors. His parents are lawyers, so if it all fails at least he'll have the best defense for free.

Have you noticed how they're trying to paint him as a victim? A generous billionaire kid, a smart young guy who wanted to make a change but he was tricked by a bad man from China. All Sam was trying to do is give back to local businesses and politicians, save them all from bankruptcy and that bad Chinese competitor created a panic that destroyed our local American business.
The cleanup has already begun.

1."losing value"??
a. forget the market price. its a meaningless number moving up and down. its only important to anyone at the excact moment they want to buy or sell.. when they are just hoarding that number is not affecting them personally
b. value is not found as being the market price. value is a number that sits below the periodic lows (it sits outside the market price chart)
that low for the last 3 years has been
2020 3k   2021 $10k and 2022 $15k
value has been on a slow constant rise.

2. "doomsday for cryptos"
this does not mean bitcoin. its means for BUSINESSES and centralised things in the crypto space. exchanges will come and go. market prices will wiggle, the wind will blow, the earth will orbit the sun...

now on to the main topic
there are 2 directions.. legal and lawful
they have to investigate if he legally used all tax/money legislation to legally avoid tax/liability/losses.
if he is found that instead of legally avoiding, and instead illegally evading. then it can  be a fine/court order to repay.. or
separate case..  move to criminal acts of if the deposits/control of assets were lawfully in 'scam bankman frauds' ownership(his to do as he pleases). or as customers credit/property

yep some businesses can put stipulations into TOS/user agreements that pretty much say once you deposit the coins, value is no longer the customers and its up to the business to decide how it treats its customers. and if customers use the service/sign up they agree to the risk of losing it all where the exchange is not liable.

if its deemed the coins were of customer credit. where there is no user agreement to allow 'scam bankman fraud' to fractional reserve or move assets to somewhere that users can never withdraw/recover. then it can become criminal

advice to everyone:
if your going to use a custodian/exchange. ALWAYS ready the terms of service/user agreement to see how ethical they are before handing them your coins, even if you intend to only use them short term

AFAIK Bankman-Fried left the train at the right moment and is unlikely to be held accountable for the bankruptcy/scam of FTX. I didn't dive deep enough into the story to figure out whether it was mismanagement of funds or a scam, though, so I don't really have an opinion on that. I am sorry for those who lost their money, and I hope selling assets and reimbursing the victims will be forced upon FTX soon enough. I don't think people will get everything back, but maybe at least a sizeable part.
The FTX crash gave an additional hit to an already bearish market, but it's nothing unfixable when it comes to Bitcoin's price. I think Bitcoin can recover from this till the end of the year (I mean, from FTX and get to the $20k barrier), unless another major event like this one happens before then.

Did you personally lose confidence in bitcoin after what happened? I don't think this will restore market confidence but it will bring hope to those who lost money. Hope that they can still recover a portion of their funds after everything has been liquidated. I doubt price would surge based on news of his arrest or conviction.

Dude's not going to be jailed. He's got a lot of deep-rooted connections in the gov't. Although he's directly responsible for people losing a lot of money, they will find a way to bail him out and continue being a puppy that will play ball with his connections. He's not in it when all is going to shit, although he was there when things are starting to get a little messy. I'll be surprised if he even gets a few months jail time, but I really doubt it.

I hope he and some more people will be jailed soon and stay there until BTC reaches 350.000 USD.

It would seem that the rich do not go to jail, no matter how much money they steal as long as they are not stealing from the government. The CEO of the Luna scam obviously did not go to jail. He might be in hiding but if the government really wanted to put him in jail, they would have found him already. Same goes for Bankman. Either he was working together with the government or he paid off the government and is now enjoying life somewhere on some island.

Justice will obviously not reach him.

The only punishment he will receive is if the people he stole from decided to inflict mob justice on him. But the world has turned so soft, I doubt anyone will want to do that. Its a great age to be a scammer.

Do Kwon is in jail? no, he is not! And I guess that Sam won't go to jail either.



The problem is also with the honest people, why do they trust the exchanges so much, and why do they hold all their funds there. Exchanges are for buying/selling not for holding.

I would be kinda surprised if he actually ends up paying time behind bars, this is the type of widespread white collar crimes that tends to go unchecked and unpunished.
By the way, remember the Theranos scam?  Elizabeth Holmes just got sentenced to 11 years in prison after years of trial and I assume it is only because she dared to mess around with the money and reputation of the powerful and rich. As far as I know those normal people who suffered a misdiagnosis because her faulty machines never got justice.

---

I thought Do Know was actively on the run, though?

philosophical questions
1. were they stolen in november.. or the very minute a customer deposited(when they decided they no longer wanted to own coin)

2. was the deposit a contractual agreed management custodial service or a simple relinquishing of ownership by the customer by agreeing to just give coins away to a business out of generosity(like a donation)

in real estate. if someone buys an apartment in full they have legal rights as owners no matter who has a door key. if they employ a maintenance guy to be given keys (a custodian 'super' to manage the utility/maintenance/services of the property) does that mean the custodian then owns the property.. answer here is no

but in crypto. a custodian does put terms into the exchange user agreement where by the property becomes owned by the exchange
and by having the only key control of funds a customer has no access to regain possession

so regulators have to work out. did scam bankman fraud legally get given coin (as pseudo-donation) to SBF's retirement home.. or did SBF steal users funds.

It's always a doomsday for those that don't have that much crypto as they're just telling what they want us to feel. But we know deep inside ourselves that whenever there's a down in the market, we tend to think that it will eventually recover and go up.

At least there's justice if he's going to be put in jail. Many are waiting for that to happen but the guy seems to have a lot of connections and the authorities can't even have his arrest.

SBF has powerful people behind him, let alone his mother.  Besides he is spending millions of dollars of FTX clients money just to have a good term with "powerful" people.  So instead I believe some one will be jailed in SBF's stead.  They will definitely look for a fall guy unless the evidence is strong enough to make this backer back - off.

I do not think he is going to face any jail time, he is simply too well connected and probably has bought a lot of favors from some of the most powerful people he could find, now it may seem impossible for this to happen as it would be too obvious but when they have so much power it is easy to create a completely new story in which he was just a CEO in name but did not took any of the important decisions and put the blame on someone else, then pay those people a lot of money to spend some years in jail and that will be it.

Mismanagement of funds is a straight up scam, using user funds to purchase homes for advisors and employees. Last October FTX raised $420 million and SBF took $300 million for his personal use and you still cannot have an opinion regarding a dumb paper billionaire  ;D.

Not long ago SBF offered Elon Musk $2 billion liquid when he was planning to take over Twitter and now he filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy and not Chapter 7  :D.

Their exchange wallets are compromised all of a sudden and millions of dollars worth of coins vanished

People from Bahama were able to withdraw even when they disabled the rest to escape from the regulators in Bahamas and now they tweet that Bahamian withdrawals were illegal and asking exchanges to return those funds.

Do Kwon mess up is a different one, he launched a shit coins created hype, withdraw millions of dollars and then his fairy coin failed miserably and it was doomed from the start because of the stupid algorithm based stable currency. SBF might not go to jail like all the other bankers because he is one of the biggest donor to Dems this election ;).

Even if he does end up serving some kind of jail time, it will be with the maximum comfort, maximum freedom to do things remotely, that money and influence has already bought and paid for. He might even prefer the security it'll afford him from vengeful creditors...


Probably quite fair summary of what needs to be legally determined, but there is also the non-philosophical question of whether he carried out all activities with his company's money above board. As CEO, did he actually have full power to use budgets and finances as he did, or were the entire board complicit, etc.

He may (will) get away with what he did with customers, or end up paying a trifle for their suffering. It's the big suits and whether he also lost their money is what will be his worry (as pointed out above what Holmes also found out).

I think he should definitely go to jail, but I don't know what the US will do about it. His political connections are said to be strong. It's frustrating that scammers like this are on the market and impact millions of people's investments. It's a fact that even if this guy goes to jail, the money people lost won't be returned. I wish we could clean up such people in the crypto community as soon as possible.

Sorry about the lose in value of your portfolio but pointing the blame to Ftx isn't really fair tbh because btc price was a falling knife when all this happened and you can't catch the knife till it lands somewhere.
All what FTX is guilty for, is injecting fear into the crypto verse which has slowed down investments and maybe prolonged cryptos recovery to $70k!


Ftx was caught with hands in the cookie jar but I think there are other players in this scam which includes politicians and other big fish which needs further investigation into the matter !

I don't know if this could work when nobody is getting back their money  ::)... All this might do is deter would be offenders from doing a similar offense.

I was thinking he wouldn't do any jail time like karpeles; however, he seems to have had his hand in things a bit more, plus I believe "authorities" are looking to make an example out of someone, considering the most recent debacles.

If ever there would be someone, I think it will be Do Kwon  ;D.  With the connection of SBF, it is quite hard to think that he will be serving jail soon.  At most I think the case will take a decade to proceed.  The case had shown several irregularities already, even saying that the hack was ordered by the authority, lol.  I was like wth was that news?  Anyway, I think SBF had put the money of his victime wisely, getting him several strong political backers that can possibly hinder the investigation or derail the subject of interest.

Just my guess, but no jail time. However, we don't even know exactly what happened yet either so who knows.

Governments have always advised their citizens, to be responsible with their own assets if investing in cryptocurrencies as it is a risky market and there is no regulation on it and in this case, I would be quite surprised if SBF goes to jail, there is no binding law for what he did, that is the risk we take when getting into crypto. If you lose money because FTX crashes, it's your fault, not the government's fault so don't ask them to do anything for you.

Together with his former girlfriend Caroline of Alameda, I am hoping that Sam Bankman Fried will be punished with frying chicken in the jail where he will be landing on after years of litigation...just like what happened to Elizabeth Holmes another scammer to the tune of billions of dollars duped from people whom we assumed should know better. Same scenario...hopefully same results. I know that he had been a big donor to many politicians but if the government is serious in regulating this industry then cases should be build against the man and he should be spending time in jail. We don't need Sam or anybody taking the same path for the crypto industry. Sam is now synonymous with collapse and certainly should never be allowed to do business with cryptocurrency.

I think it will be day dreaming to expect that SBF will even be persecuted let alone serving any jail term.


I think that's the major issue with cryptocurrency, so many people lost a their life savings due to the action of just one singular person, and there he is going scot-free.
People should be made to answer for their crimes

there are legal means of a business, taking in funds from customers. and not giving the customers anything in return

however busniesses need to have met a legal threshold of having to make customers aware that there is a risk of losing all their deposits and that when they are putting money/asset into something they are handing all ownerchip, possession and control of that money/asset over to ownership by the business

thus anything after the deposit is no longer anything to do with customers, and customers have no redress/option/involvement/chance of recouperation

there is also the charade buddy system of links to political entities. EG scam bankman frauds family know someone who know someone in the CFTC and SEC and also in both the trump and biden camps(should future elections shift party and this bankrupts drama stretch out beyond 2024)

..
with both that said.
its not CFTC or SEC that will hammer SBF(if its an option) its the FATF(financial action task force) that will do the hammering

also those friends of friends in SEC/CFTC may want to distance themselves by actually getting involved to find/give evidence to help prosecute him as their way of saying their job/integrity mean more then loyalty to friends in their personal lives

all in all. it can swing both ways legally and lawfully. only time can tell.

we all want to see scam bankman fraud in prison. but when it comes to business law of contracts etc. certain deals can be done to make sure a brand gets destroyed without punishing the human that made the brand

Definitely he won't. First reason is those who will be filing a case not only to Sam but also to owners of the said exchanger. This is blockchain,it would be hard for authorities to find the authenticity of the claimants or those who would file the case. We've seen many of these over years. There are many scam projects, tokens and the likes but why are there no convicted (if there are, probably a few). This is because this technology is separated from states still since no regularization still is happening. So I do also think that those who are really accountable for this would go to jail. There would be a lot of procedures, think of how many users were affected.

Maybe he will only be jailed for 1 or 2 years, we all know who is behind SBF and of course, that is the reason why SBF is still enjoying his life today.
but can jail time restore the market to normal and return FTX investors' losses? of course it won't change the situation, everything has happened and we have to accept it.

https://i.imgur.com/uqTcpqb.png
This is his 32nd speech. he says nothing matters except doing his best for all FTX customers. But, what is the best for now, and what developments has SBF made for its customers? are the customers getting their profits back, or are they just trash at FTX? LOL.

profits?
Nope not getting them back.

first of all.
even if running a legit service.
imagine 1million people depositing about 0.4btc average each in january
=400k coins.
 ( where $50k/btc valuation in jan=$20k per 0.4 = $20bill value combined)

 getting a fiat reimbursement. wont be $20k for their 0.4btc. it would be of at most $6.6k this month (this month valuation is $16.5k/coin)

however
if running a shady business
 if there were 400k coins in deposit. and they can only find say 40,000 then that is a 10% on return. meaning that $6.6k turns into $660

that $660 however will be further diluted by legal fee's and other creditors with priority over customers.

so your $20k average investment turns into well under $500 return..
but thats IF they can even find say 40k bitcoin to divide up before fee's

Do you remember Dokwon? and now he is still sunbathing on some luxurious beach with investor's money. Then there is no reason because SBF will go to jail, cryptocurrency has no government protection, when we participate in investment, we will be responsible for our own decision.

Yeah, That guys is legendary, Actually this is the perks on doing a heist on crypto since you can store your assets on wallet that doesn’t reveal your ownership. Do Kwon probably might face jail time if the many people affected is living on same country to him. There’s no one pursuing the case besides the authorities who’s doing there own investigation. Without a complaints, this jerk will be free forever.

Same with Sam, there’s no evidence that he steal money since all the allegations has no clear proof and democrats is involved which means he is safe until a republicans will sit on the white house. Only bankruptcy is the only thing we can expect as the outcome on this drama and no jail time same as Do Kwon.

Nothing will happen if that guy is kept behind the bars and I highly doubt there will be any law suit against him. All they will justify that it's due to lack of security, lack of planning and bla bla stuff in front of the court and get out immediately with a bail. Anyways Senator will get paid huge $$ so he might easily get away with this.

If so, then Elon should be behind the bars, may be other billionaires too who are playing the fishy games in the name of decentralization in the crypto space. Sadly, it is also beneficial for common user however it's curse when it comes to the jurisdiction because there are simply no control no regulations.

Hopefully we will get the justice someway other. Because one might go in jail and another will stand up and start the work.

I'm not sure that's the best solution, but maybe it's one that is expected.
I don't think the FTX issue is going to make people's trust in bitcoin down, but the impact is definitely being felt as FUD over FTX has sent most people into a panic. Even if someone is jailed due to FTX case then fraud will never stop in this industry and users are obliged to have good solution. Every asset owner should store their assets in wallet, not an exchange nor should they trust centralized exchange 100% for their long term storage.

Punishment is simply a consequence for those found guilty, but I don't believe it will do much for the people who are losing to the current FTX. Lots of people have lost money and I'm not sure they will be compensated.

If in case they will be compensated especially those top 50 creditors, it will be long time as lawsuit and hearings would take a great deal of time.
However, this current crypto-exchange failure shows that it can really influence the movement in the market.
This may not be long, but right now, we are seeing its immediate effect on bitcoin's price.
For believers, this is a very nice opportunity to collect more satoshis. It is now how crypto users are reacting on this recent fallout.
But I don't think SBF will go to jail very soon, because this will be a long duration of discussion and hearings, possibly, the authorities may ask him to pay those stakeholders affected.

Everything I've read about the case says there was a fraud, and that there are Americans among the victims. Fortunately, I'm not among them, but I'm expecting the victims to sue. FTX shall be, and must be prosecuted.

Actually, it would be a test for justice versus exchanges. Cryptocurrencies will remain wild, but exchanges must follow regulations.

Many people stated that Sam Bankman-Fried has connections, and that's right, but I've read its victims are Coinbase Ventures, Sequoia Capital, Paradigm, Softbank, pretty big guys. They can afford the best lawyers, and I hope they will. It's not only about recovering their money (chances are poor when it comes to that), but setting a precedent so that exchanges behave in the future. The crypto world expects that. I'm sure BTC would go up 10% in an instant, if Sam Bankman-Fried was jailed.

Do you believe that sending someone to jail will cause market movements to switch? It makes no real difference who he is, and he formed so much drama. Already, it has had a massive negative impact on the crypto market; if Sam Bankman-Friedgo is put in jail, the situation will worsen. It will not be good for the overall crypto industry. There is nothing wrong with Bitcoin, but the situation has ended up causing people to panic.

it sends a message to other boiler room scammers and crap-sites that activities like scam bankman frauds activities are not free to do. that people will get punished. it may sway other scammers to think twice.
and also make legit services become more legit to avoid mistakes that may cost them a punishment

I disagree.  It would be good for the situation if SBF is put in jail. Why?  Because it gave an example for those who think they can play with crypto and scam people because it is hardly regulated by the government.  Somehow scammer will have a second thought to establish company that will scam people.  In short, there will be less people like SBF that makes fool of their investors.

From: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-63720310 (https://www.bbc.com/news/business-63720310)

That is a fraud! To the average guy, BTC has a bad reputation. Sending Sam Bankman-Fried to jail would improve things. It's important that people don't see the crypto world as the wild, wild west, and that there are rules.

this though we know is fraud. however can easily be explained away as legitimate homes purchases using their own trade fee income

EG yearly volume was $627b (https://www.reuters.com/markets/currencies/top-crypto-exchanges-by-volume-2022-11-09/) and trade fe of 0.1% (https://help.ftx.com/hc/en-us/articles/360033394492-Maker-vs-Taker-fees)=$627m
thus they can say the homes were bought for about 6months of company profits

however. if other big spends are found. where all the totals of frivolous spending exceed $627m a year.. then they have to explain where they got the money from

He was the CEO of the company and have full disclosure to the funds reserves but still trying to gain more profits without even rectifying the mistake which can cause people loose money so do you still think he is innocent? Speaking about running away then he is under authorities charge at this time because he didn't get chance to run away otherwise he would have done it earlier also.

It would have been better if he went to jail for what he did, but that's not going to happen. Currently, crypto is not regulated and the government always recommends that participating in crypto is very risky, participants should be responsible for their own decisions. Because of that loophole, SBF or Dokwon and many other scammers easily performed fraud without fear of consequences. The first hearing on the fall of FTX took place today, but as long as there is no regulation I believe the government does not have enough evidence to imprison him.

Years ago, there was a journalist who snuck into a private party for wallstreet. He published a news article on his experiences at a major news publication.

According to the story, wallstreet throws parties where they do nothing but make fun of those in poor to middle class income brackets. This could be an integral and intrinsic aspect to wallstreet culture in the modern era. To an extent, we may have witnessed this with Bankman's initial twitter troll responses. As well as the lengths being taken to rub the FTX scandal in the public's face.

It has also been claimed over the past 15 years that modern day CEOs are often selected for having sociopathic tendencies. Business and finance are viewed by some as existing in a perpetual state of war. Whatever morality and ethics that exist in the business world could be in a steady state of decline.

that is the loophole in the current crypto market. this is why a lot are encourage to screw their investors because they can easily get away with it. however, what i like about SBF is he faced the public and admit his mistakes. i just hope that he will return some of the money to his investors.

One of the cons honestly when dealing up with something which it isnt really that regulated.There's no way that they could really apply out any laws or regulations which could imprison someone on what they had done.
Its true that these fraudsters and scammers do really that too confident because they do know about that part.Honestly, we dont know on whats the set up for this but people would just
eventually forget these issues and would really be moving on and would be going back on where they are before. People never ever learn when it comes on using up platforms
and storing up their money on these 3rd party which it is really bringing up the huge risk below.

I've been very happy to read that the Financial Times has pretty much the same opinion as I have.

https://www.ft.com/content/470ce8e8-0e5d-4fe4-8b62-08eb0749da9c (https://www.ft.com/content/470ce8e8-0e5d-4fe4-8b62-08eb0749da9c)

As long as there are exchanges, it's essential that people can trust them. We can't say if the bad guy will end up in jail yet, but justice's on the way.

Amen. Bitcoin is a deflationary currency by design (21 million hard limit), so it's always increasing in value.

You've been too easy on him, you're definitely not a victim of the FTX crash so you don't seem too worried. If someone uses your money without informing you in advance, it is like stealing your money and after losing all the money, that person comes to you to apologize, will you forgive? SBF is no different from Dokwon, causing many people to fall into difficult situations, even die. I know this is largely the investor's fault because they are ignorant or too greedy to trust SBF but he doesn't deserve to be tolerated.

SBF has political friends that he has made over just few years of getting to the top of the cryptocurrency industry and he'll use that to his advantage. Besides SBF is a US citizen and US does take care of his own. Also the US are against cryptocurency and might just leverage on the FTX incident to make people lose trust in cryptocurrency entirely as they make SBF work away a free man after the financial collapse he just caused.
If this was to be another individual, especially someone who wasn't of US origin like CZ (the CEO of Binance exchange) things won't have been this calm as it's. He would has been questioned and asked to pay for his sin. SBF crippled many investors and many won't recover at all or it'll take longer for them because billions of investors funds got losts in all this.

Even if he has no ties to politicians or their support, he is very unlikely to go to jail. Look at Dokwon, he also caused Luna's downfall and same damage as SBF did but so far he hasn't been caught. Simply because cryptocurrencies do not have any regulation, it is difficult to accusations someone.
In the 14 years of crypto development, there have been many cases of scams happening, but most of them will be forgotten and no one will be held responsible, so this time is no exception.

Your hypothesis also sounds very reasonable, maybe the recent crashes were created by the government to implicitly warn people to stay away from crypto because it will not be protected by them. This is also a way to get rid of cryptocurrencies without as much effort as issuing a ban.

Not defending him or anything, but what good will it do locking up SBF at this point? The damage has already been done, I would instead go after all the other rats who are still running fraudulent exchanges before they take down even more investor funds. But at the very least he should get a lifetime ban from running a financial company so that he cannot repeat this stunt again.

i was thinking that putting 'scam bankman fraud' in prison would set a precedent that boiler rooms scams are not wild west freedoms any rat can scurry around in and get away with it.

but then. if rats get afraid of possible prison time too. they probably would shut down their operations quick and scarper off with their customers funds out of state.

yes 'scam bankman fraud' should be banned for life from ever doing custodian/ financial manager, exchange based businesses again

and if not prison. walk upto every investors house and allow each investor face to face have their say.. where  'scam bankman fraud'  has to take his lickings of abuse from each. aswell as declare he will for the rest of his life work for minimum wage living in a slum apartment(lifetime probation/monitoring) and all other incomes go back to making reparations

I don't think he courts will go that far. The worst that can happen is that they give him 140 years of prison time like that Bernie Madoff guy.

But Madoff screwed a lot of investors right under the SEC's nose. That is the crucial difference between the convictions (in SBF's case it's hypothetical).

Do kwon is still working as a free man, just like most of the previous scammers. I doubt he will go to jail especially when he didn't see it as his fault.
The guy doesn't feel remorseful for what happened. Lol, look at his recent WHAT HAPPENED tweet. He is a complete douchebag acting indifferent after causing so much havoc to investors and the entire crypto market. It will be nice to see his a** in jail but judging from previous similar incidents, I highly doubt that.

The rich are getting richer with the money their stole from the poor and taxpayers who are looking for other ways to make investments and choosing cryptocurrency in that regard, the CEO of FTX and LUNA CEOs are still walking freely after their both platforms scam users of billions of dollars, without any attempt to keep them in custody pending investigation, but in the other way around their still free and enjoying the money they took from clients since their custody to those coins in investment.
I am not sure if their both will end up in jail after the hardy process of investigation but one of the limitations to getting the needed justice is political will and corruption, they may both buy their way through and walk away freely with all the stolen money.

all of the FIAT financial sector is a sham

take setting up a business. (watch shows such as sharktank/dragons den)

salepitch happens, then the request
$100k for 5%

this puts it at a valuation of $2m even though there is only $100k in the business. plus that business probably already in debt by more then $100k before the pitch meaning that $100m might get spent quick

then next season of investor are not buying 1% of $100k. but 1% of $2m. again there is not $2m in the company

no one bats an eyelid as long as the business can show activeness of work activity in the business or demand on the market to swap the 1% $20k (a 100% rate of $2m)

when it all goes bad. then and only then do people finally see the business only ever had $100k all along

and everyone thinking they will get $20k for 1% only get $1k for 1%

..
FTX did NOT ever have $32billion to back up its valuations EVER
at most they probably had $7b. but not in FTX collateral. but as assets under management of customers funds

FTX only had legitimately les than a couple billion of business collateral legally owned by the business

Justice is something that needs to be fought for, but this does not rule out the possibility that not all bad people will end up in prison because the laws of the world sometimes become dull when a criminal has more power than those who work as judges. I would probably think SBF could be tried in prison for his guilt, but either way that will never make up for the lost billions of dollars investing from investor.

Traders and investors can always trust the exchange, but may end up having to bear all the causes and consequences of a bad centralized exchange. The risk would be minimized if most people never held their assets on a centralized exchange, but this is more desirable for some traders or investors.

The issue here is not whether we have enough evidence but as I said, cryptocurrencies are not regulated and participation in crypto is not protected by the government. The only possibility that SBF goes to jail is that, he cannot compensate US investors because FTX is registered there, investors paying full taxes means they will be protected by law. As for investors in the world without protection, they should be responsible for their own losses. That is the difference between regulated and unregulated in the market.

what you say is about cryptocurrencies themself (self custody)

but when it comes to businesses, there are some rules.. but when it comes to businesses. a business is not human. you cant put a business in to prison
business can be fined where the associated bank accounts can be seized.

however business law also allows the CEO lots of loop holes to escape business mistakes

it then has another threshold of evidence needed to make a business mistake a mistake of the CEO

most of the time a CEO will find a scape goat. like a disgruntled employee to point the finger at.

this threshold to put the blame on the CEO also comes with things like was it inept practice of just not having any accounting skills to secure assets. or was it malicious action of the ceo purposefully deciding to move assets/spend assets

i personally want him jailed. but its never that simple

One proof ... He is the CEO of FTX Exchange[1].  In case you are not aware of the job of a CEO:

CEO or Chief Executive Officer is responsible for the successes and shortcomings of the business[2]
CEO Main Role:
Making decisions and being responsible for those decisions.
A CEO leads his company.
CEOs are responsible for maintaining capital for their business.
CEOs manage risk
CEOs have an ethical and a legal accountability to the owners and shareholders.
CEOs report to the board of directors

That covers the scope of being a CEO, now, the fund of FTX gone missing and it is stated that it is the responsibility of the CEO to maintain the capital of the company, and he approves all the transactions of the company.  So if not SBF, who would have mismanage the fund of FTX?

---

[1] Sam Bankman-Fried (https://www.forbes.com/profile/sam-bankman-fried/?sh=378df5144490)
[2] Role of the Chief Executive Officer (https://archintel.com/competitive-intelligence/role-of-the-chief-executive-officer/#:~:text=A%20CEO%20leads%20his%20company,maintaining%20capital%20for%20their%20business.)

when a business has done something criminal. CEO dont always go to jail

did HSBC ceo go to jail for money laundering
did JPMorgan ceo go to jail for money laundering

it could be a buffet/enron thing.. = criminal charges against CEO
it could be a HSBC/JPM thing..= business fine at probably an amount equal to X days business profit

I'm sure he will never go to jail no matter how many people want or sue. FTX just filed for bankruptcy meaning they are not officially bankrupt and they are still operating but he resigned last week. He no longer has a relationship with FTX. Not only will he not have to go to jail, but he could join or open another company in the future if he resigns early.

Imagine you are a prosecutor in SDNY looking into FTX, and SBF is just running his mouth confessing on Twitter and in media interviews. Let's ignore extradition, jurisdiction, everything. Are you in a rush to lock him up so his lawyer finally convinces him that the Fifth Amendment is important or do you enjoy Thanksgiving?

I agree and it is possible that they are still free because they have powerful connections that can maim justice.  But those who don't amass enough powerful backers, end up in jail.  And probably Sam Bankman-Fried will never go to jail because people around him is possibly powerful enough to blindfold the blindfolded justice system.

---

Anyway, those who are interested to know some CEO who got jailed due to their fraud and mismanagement can refer to this article[1][2][3]

---

[1] https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/us/who-is-elizabeth-holmes-disgraced-ceo-who-was-sentenced-to-more-than-11-years-in-prison-for-theranos-fraud/articleshow/95615174.cms
[2] https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60001147
[3] https://www.nbcnews.com/business/markets/10-ceos-who-went-boardroom-cell-block-flna783944

Honestly I really don't think this is going to happen. These billionaires have a lot of money to feed the governments and stop going to jail, they even have inteligent attorneys who guide them clearly as to which country to stay in order to be safe from the government itself. Even if they are caught they have plenty of excuses and scapegoats to get free from the system. So, I don think you will be able to enjoy this sight.

here is the thing

cases where a CEO has gone to jail take a long time to prove, especially when they may still be trying to to work out what is happening

even in the theranos case where on first day of investigating anyone could simply walk into the building and say ok test my blood for 50 diseases
boom one day see the claims of a working device are a lie
however it took years to actually put her in jail


in finance its not just trying to shuffles the account numbers into something readable to then see what exists on paper and then find the real assets listed
its then to see where the missing assets went and why.
and if those movements are business property moves or personal actions directed personally by a CEO who done it in a manner that without any doubt was to abuse customers and criminally steal.

in short it will take a long time to get any real answers, and if there is a "reasonable doubt" where by it could be considered that there was a hack, be sure SBF's lawyers will maximise that "hackers" involvement as much as they can to shift the blame. or find an insider employee to blame. or something

I don't know where his country is from. If SBF lives in USA, the police especially FBI must investigate him and catch him in jail right now. Or maybe can't be enough proof to throw him?. Not only him, a lot of unbitcoin crime like Craig Steven Wright must be jail also to make the bitcoin ecosystem to be green zone. Both will make bitcoin will be done every time, if the police can't act those criminals, they will make happen again in between 4 year.

I very much agree. It is also not only about their connections to the government. They also appear to have connections with mainstream news media like the Wall Street Journal. I have never seen an article written about Sam that says he was running a criminal enterprise which appears he was. It is always articles with spinning storylines similar to this.



The FTX founder pledged to donate billions. His firm’s swift collapse wiped out his wealth and ambitious philanthropic endeavors.

Source https://www.wsj.com/articles/sam-bankman-frieds-plans-to-save-the-world-went-down-in-flames-11669257574



Also, Alex Pertsev is in jail for writing an opensource program for helping the community mix their coins while Sam Bankrupt-Fried and Do Kwon are free hehe.

Bankman-Fraud will get the Epstein treatment. Meaning, they will make him disappear and he is not going to spend a single day in a jail cell. When he has corrupted political friends like the Clintons, he can avoid any punishment. If the media tells you that he is in jail, that means he is in his home playing PS5. If they tell you he is dead, that means he has a new name, a new face (hopefully both his new name and face will be less stupid than his current ones) and he is in somewhere which you won’t ever know about.

He's a political donor. Out donated everyone except George Soros in the 2022 U.S. midterm elections. He'll get the special treatment because democratic appointees are in the Department of Justice. It's not good for business when you prosecute your political donors, of course.

In any sane world, SBF would've already been in jail and charged with fraud, probably held without bail for being a flight risk. Makes you wonder what all those political donations were for. Maybe he saw his demise coming and figured lining up the pockets of politicians was his way out.

Hi everyone,
I'm Laura and I'm an Italian software programmer (I have pretty important websites that talks about Technology  (http://"https://www.techplaza.it/smartphone-500-euro/")or Gifts (http://"https://www.miglioridea.it/") in Italy).
Despite my technical skills, unfortunately I too am among those who have been heavily affected by the ftx scam. :-\

Unfortunately my entire crypto portfolio was on Ftx, which I thought was an incredible exchange (and far superior to Binance).

I would like to ask one thing: the fact that Bankman is still free, isn't that good news? Couldn't he convince some influential politician or entrepreneur to take up the legacy of FTX and restart it? Maybe this way they could return some of the funds...

Am I wrong?

Until now many people still don't believe that Sam has ties to Democratic Party politicians, which is ridiculous. He is the 2nd largest donor in the US midterm elections and his parents are also democrats. No wonder he won't go to jail. Powerful members of the democratic party will whitewash his background in the purest way.

Don't blame only Bankman and his company, but all those who gave him money and trusted him. Such characters would never be able to do something like this if there were not millions of naive and gullible people who still believe in fairy tales, and it is not about children, but about adults to make the matter even more tragic.

The need to have a leader is much stronger than the idea represented by Bitcoin - all these people should go back to school and write the word "decentralization" a million times, and then maybe some of them would understand what it means.

The Department of Justice, the Securities and Exchange Commission and the Commodity and Futures Trading Commission are all looking at the case, so I'm pretty optimistic it will be positive for BTC. More regulations are coming to exchanges, and that will be make the crypto world safer for the average guy.

It's all good. Except for Sam Bankman-Fried who should start to feel the heat.

We are soon going to find out just how corrupt officials can be. My guess is that Sam Bank-Fraud will likely end up on house arrest and they’ll claim he’s helping regulators claw back funds as a reason for the lenience. I think if you’re Sam you might even be glad this is all over. He’ll probably hang out in his penthouse for a year or two and then get all the funds he stashed away and live happily ever after. Meanwhile he left behind a million victims.

You're mistaken, not only will there be regulation for centralized exchanges but it will be regulation for all crypto industries. It couldn't be more fitting for this rationale for the government to have the opportunity to intervene in crypto as it is now. Having regulation will help us avoid scams but with regulation, they will no longer be called decentralized.

yep

the SEC can only regulate financial payment services.

however the CFTC has a broader scope. they can both regulates the services but also put regulations on the assets themselves
(quota's, quality control, lessen environmental impact, restrict who can invest (only professional investors)

for instance the CFTC along with the EPA put quotas on farming and quality of production. they can restrict which type of fertiliser and weed killer is used. etc.. all to ensure only whitelisted high quality traceable wheat enters the wheat commodity market

this is where if bitcoin is treated more as a commodity rather than an asset it opens the doors for the CFTC and the EPA. which meansin they can go after the mining industry and the the developers to do a PoS detonation(worse case, but possible)


when bitcoin was young 2009-2014 it was not deemed a currency meaning services were treated not as currency exchangers. but as merchants selling collectables(much like how NFT is not being regulated yet.
but since deemed as currency (lobbied under the false pretense of "mainstreaming". then SEC regulators found their way into the door
now if its changing to a commodity. CFTC gets it foot in the door

some will say "yea but what about the benefits that maybe a financial service can finally get an ETF and boom mainstream"

to which i reply "but what about them requiring all wallet developers to add code that meeds regulatory standard. or asks miners to not operate in certain locations or limit hashrate per location

I totally agree with you. This guy, thanks to the people that his parents know, won't go to jail simply because the law in this cases doesn't apply. Just the simply fact that he's still giving interviews etc is ridiculous, this guy is a criminal and yet he's allowed to do whatever he wants. The exchanges keep asking for more and more info about the users but then you can simply build your exchange, scam people, and be totally fine.

Although I won't place all the blame on FTX, I believe cryptocurrency will continue to experience trust issues with cases like this and bear markets can always have bad reactions to bad news. Bankman has shown such a disregard for the fraud's outcome. 5 senators prevented the probing of his action, after declaring bankrupcy he was still donating and it was observed that the parents acquired some housing properties lately worth hundred of millions of dollars. It seems no one has the courage to probe him. To avoid recurrence, we might need to avoid young developers who are deeply involved in politics.

People have memories that are too short, right now there is a big movement to take back the custody of our coins, but as time passes and then a new bull market emerges many of those same people will get too greedy and will leave their coins at exchanges once again, and if a person like SBF creates another exchange no one will care at the time, so we are bound to see events like this happening in a recurring manner in this market for a very long time.

one thing i keep hearing...

scam bankman fraud got famous 10+ years ago from arbitraging funds from us exchanges to a japanese exchange..
translation: he had funds in MTGox

i wonder how much of the MTGox bankruptcy has SBF funds because if he was making millions in 2012-14 that means there might be many btc hauled up in MTGox release coming soon(a few XX thousand coins back then= a few X thousand now.. possibly)

also when he acted as the liquidator as oppose to the liquidated. he bought up many defunct businesses where even though defunct businesses had alot of 'paper'(on the books) fiat debt, which it counldnt honour. those businesses still did have assets. which part of liquidation is to shift about and move. so im sure he has assets in those companies shuffled in to some side-pot stash somewhere

i hope that the regulators and investigators dont just look at the actions of "customer funds" of ftx 2022. but look at all the asset shuffles over the many years and link all hidden stashes of SBF

This might become a reality only if Sam will tell the truth and expose the whole scheme behind FTX and Alameda. However, it appears that he will never expose the people behind him and those people are helping spin the storylines and covering up for Sam. Read all of the Wall Street Journal articles written about him after the collapse. Much of those articles are making it appear that he was not running a criminal, money laundering enterprise.

In any case, it would be in the concern of the cryptospace community to see Sam go to prison. The victims of this will be everyone of us because the government will begin creating stricter laws, require all users to KYC and might also demand exchanges to require that their users must be earning a certain yearly salary to be allowed to invest in the cryptospace.

Nah, you got your wires crossed.  He didn't have an mtgox account. I don't think there is any public evidence of him having any major interest in Bitcoin prior to 2017.

When they started promoting him in 2020 they claimed that the source of his claimed >10 billion dollar wealth was arbing Korean bitcoin exchanges in 2018-2020.  People quickly pointed out that this would have been obviously impossible so they quickly changed the story to Japanese exchanges-- which also didn't make sense given the amounts but at least some arb was possible there. You can still see evidence of the earlier lie if you google his name and the phrase "kimchi premium".

From recent disclosures we now know that indeed they never made money arbing Korean exchanges, and made a couple million "arbing" in Japan-- but mostly from the value of Bitcoin going up rather than the spread-- and they quickly lost it.

So the arb story was just a lie to build a fake wealth story to encourage other people to invest in his 'business'.

Careful with what you read there-- SBF gave liberally to media outlets and many of the people writing about him took money from him or are connected to parties that did.  At a minimum their ego is on the line: They could have easily called out the red flags early on but instead they breathlessly promoted him, so now they really want to spin that it wasn't obvious and that it wasn't necessarily intentional.  Plus no one in the media gets sued for sucking up to a scammer, but people do get sued for calling them out.  Really when you look at the facts without the spin why you find is that FTX was running a shitcoin casino, promoted on the back of fraudulent claims of wealth, that went massively short bitcoin long shitcoin (including through selling retail customers paper bitcoins that FTX never owned) and then suffered the predictable results.

Spinning it as just poor accounting makes zero sense because it provides no explanation for where the 8 billion in customer deposits, plus SBFs >10bn in claimed trading gains, plus several billion in outside investments actually went if it was just due to accounting errors.

ok i stand corrected. i was doing quick search and some were saying he was getting famous in bitcoin trading while working for jane street 2014+
but then went solo and got more famous working for himself in 2017+

as for the $32b+ valuation
my belief is simply offering out XXX million FTT valueless tokens
where some investors bough up initial ~$400m for only less than XX thousand token. to give a market cap of $32b+ instantly even if only $400m changed hands.. much like most "funding rounds" hand over less money than the company valuation becomes
(not using exact numbers just random demo numbers for expressing an example)

this is not a critique or a poke. just a genuine question about the difference between gmax of 2016 and gmax of 2022

have you severed all ties with the DCG family(daughter: blockstream) or are you still part of their inner santum?

i genuinely ask because i might give you a break from seeing you as a threat if your not part of the corporate agenda of the barry silbert roadmap of bitcoin of the last 7 years.

and wondering if there is any contagion risk to yourself which you worry about in regards to the effects of FTX on DCG

Not so easy, if he stood up to expose the real mastermind behind the downfall, his life would be in danger. Once you get involved in politics, your life is no longer in your hands. It is important to note that in this case, the SBF remains the beneficiary, so there is no reason for him to betray those who back him. I wouldn't be surprised if in the future SBF gets involved in politics and becomes a politician of the US.

I very much agree.

This is being shared on social media. I am not quite certain why there are some people who remain to assume that we are being antagonistic. We only want to spread truth and show everyone what is happening in reality.

Just a run on the bank hehehe. The Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, the Deal Book, they are spinning the storyline and covering the real story behind Sam.

https://i.ibb.co/4sh8NdG/1-C3828-AC-69-B7-449-A-93-E1-25190391826-E.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/9YN5Lc1/A9061-FFA-F8-A4-4-A52-9-C03-9-A5474-BF6-E7-B.jpghttps://i.ibb.co/jfCtvYB/4-F17-DA24-10-DA-49-F1-84-F9-AF81-D2-F1718-A.jpg

You sure are not the only one who sees that there are a number of users who could be part of the DCG family in the forum and they seem to side with the FTX vs Binance competition.

They literally apply the "if you can't beat them, join them" strategy which they could then be controlling the industry where we're going back to the old market dominated by big bad wolves.

Are you referring to Sam Bankman-Fried Sir? Because if this is what you're talking about, I think it's still vague to happen right now, because first, SBF's mother is a lawyer and an influential person and also has a big connection, and then SBF also has a strong connection.

In addition to that, it seems that SBF is making his name even better by doing NYT (New York Times) which we are not sure if he paid for it. Even despite everything, his FTX business failed because of the billions he took from the funds of investors who invested in FTX as if nothing had happened. Also the FBI don't have yet strong evidence against this person, though it is actually sad in reality.

On the contrary, putting the bad guy in jail will not change anything, people's confidence in businesses is all about the environment of the business, not the already known perpetrator. The question is, are there still people like BSF in the crypto world, such should be fished out and sanity/regulation should be enforced to achieve the people's confidence. Binance has started by showing proof of funds, others should follow suit, which is one of the ways that people's confidence is boosted, not by jailing just a man that would not restore any money to the cryptosystem.

More compliance funds will flow into the crypto market with the strengthening of regulation. In the long run the FTX event has a positive impact on the development of the industry.

Even if it doesn't do much to alleviate public confidence, it's still preferable to make an example of the perpetrator.  It could potentially reduce the number of copycats if the repercussions give them pause to think twice.  Or, at the very least, people won't believe there are zero consequences for ripping people off, which is what they risk occurring if they don't lock that scumsack up.

I don't have and haven't ever had any.  Nor have I had any relationship with Blockstream either since I stopped working there in 2017, I think I've told you that before too.


I think you let yourself get mislead by people driven by Craig's misinformation man, I don't know else you could have missed DCG aggressively attacking Bitcoin developers with "segwit 2x" crap.  Best as I can tell, DCG are shitcoiners that wrap themselves in a Bitcoin blanket when they think it'll make them money (unfortunately like a simple majority of the industry).

I feel sad for the retail fools who got suckered into FTX due to all the hype in the media, but FTX's implosion is shaking out a bunch of anti-bitcoin bad actors and I only wish it had happened sooner, I certainly don't have any exposure to DCG.

I do have a nominal amount of my own funds deposited in the LedgerX derivatives exchange, mostly collateral for bitcoin puts I sold there in the last couple months.  When FTX.US acquired LedgerX I removed all the Bitcoins I had there and only left a nominal amount of dollars, since I thought SBF was pretty obviously a scammer. ... fortunately appears though that they're completely isolated from the FTX implosion as they weren't integrated and their controls appear have been sufficient to keep SBF from raiding it too.  They're operating as normal and I expect they'll get spun off/sold.

Like FTX, Binance is another shitcoin casino.  Only clueless people do business with shitcoin casinos.  All Bitcoiners should avoid doing business with places that primarily generate revenue from selling shitcoins to idiots, and especially from places that offer margin for shitcoin trading.  The only kind of leverage that is potentially safe is physically settled options, anything else can easily leave the exchange insolvent.

It is also very much similar to those centralized services like Blockfi which are really just custodied cryptobanks.

However, because these centralized, custodied cryptobanks and exchanges will always continue to exist, would it not be time for the bitcoin community to accept and encourage the research on Defi and other noncustodial methods for swapping and yield generating services? This would at the very least make of use the advantage of self custody.

I don't have ideas about Sam Bankman-Fried go to jail based on many scam exchange, casino gambling and altcoin price drastically dump but the owner still healthy and enjoying with their profit run away from investor. FTX is not first exchange got scam although have good reputation and second standing exchange position based on coinmarket cap standing but still not any reason yet for making Sam Bankman under arrest.

the absence of legal basis could be one of the reasons why it is difficult to bring this case to the realm of law and make the owner of FTX Exchange Sam Bankman-Fried go to jail. Better with independent law playing here, if any one here know with them make warning and threat about how much money do you loss in FTX.

With all due respect, I would never put Binance and FTX on the same level, we're talking about two completely different exchanges and persons behind them. SBF came out pretty much from nowhere and in 1-2 years he already an exchange that was considered better than Kraken, Bitfinex, and other exchanges that have been online for a long time. I had some FTT but since the beginning everything looked too good to be true, with this young guy claiming to donate everything in charity etc etc. CZ makes a ton of money thanks to the commissions but he really bet everything on crypto and actually believe in them, SBF just used them to make more money, that's it, he never cared about this world.

@Ale88. Agreed and after everything that has transpired, also assuming from all known information that Binance is only a shitcoin exchange very much different from what FTX was which might have been created as a criminal enterprise from the beginning. It is not comparable. Binance is a liquidity providing service for holders and traders to exchange their coins to other coins or fiat currencies very much similar to traditional currency exchanges.

Still putting the perpetrator behind the bar will have a good effect in the future.  It may not change what happened but it gives warning to people who are thinking of doing the same thing SBF did.  If the perpetrator is still on loose, then many scammer will just do the same thing because they will think that authority won't mind them scamming people everywhere.


There are lots of people like SBF waiting for the right moment to prey on their victim.  So making an example of SBF will shoo them away which means a cleaner healthier crypto ecosystem.


Proof of reserve has long been due.  Centralized exchanges should have done this thing from the start.  But yes, better late than never.  I hope all of crypto exchanges will follow the example of Binance in term of implementing proof of reserve for the their client's peace of mind sake.

https://i.imgur.com/S3STGG8.jpg
He should be punished for what he has done. So that no one dares to create such a situation. Millions of investors lost everything as a result of his FTX collapse. According to the lower, Sam Bankman-Fried could be jailed for more than a decade if the law found any discrepancy in the FTX collapse.

Sam Bankman should refrain from speaking publicly about the recently collapsed about the crypto exchange which is indicated by the lawer as well. If Sam Bankman violating the FTX law could lead to a jail term of up to 15 years. Sam Bankman-Fried, the founder and former CEO of collapsed cryptocurrency exchange FTX may sent to jail that depending on the extent of potential legal violations related to FTX's collapse and if he is convicted.

Several U.S. government organization, including the Securities and Exchange Commission, the Commodity Futures Trading Commission and the Department of Justice, are investigating Bankman-Fried and his Bahamas-based company after the sudden fall of FTX this month. If he is guilty then legal action will be taken against him as per the report of organizations.

I understand your resentment, but putting a bad guy in jail is unlikely to get your money back. Also, I support the opinion that any wrongdoing should be held accountable and, if necessary, there should be punishment. The question of what it will be and whether it will be at all in the case of the founder of the FTX remains open. Can you imagine that Sam Bankman-Fried will get off very easily? This would infuriate a lot of his former clients.

I understand that Bankman stole your money, but you yourself gave it to him. It's as if the world is facing a crypto exchange crash for the first time. This happened repeatedly and all users should have been aware of this and anticipate the possible risks. You have been warned repeatedly about the great risk of holding currencies on centralized exchanges. You neglected caution, for which you paid. This is a painful lesson for both you and new users. Don't let history repeat itself.

I don't want to say that character counts for nothing, because that clearly isn't true and there may be a billion dollars or so lost in FTX due to people at the top more or less pocketing it.  But the real implosion from FTX came from the nature of the business itself.  They imploded because they extended margin to users and prices changed.

Lets imagine that tomorrow the price of bitcoin or some other cryptocurrency jumped to a million dollars a coin almost instantly and stayed there, or jumped to $5 per coin and stayed there (US says it's making Bitcoin legal tender vs US says its outlawing Bitcoin).  What would happen to the solvency of the services?

A traditional Bitcoin exchange that doesn't have any funny business products would be unaffected-- other than increased or decreased activity might bring their revenue up or down (or cause their website to suffer from high traffic). One Bitcoin there is still one Bitcoin, one dollar is still one dollar. All is fine.

A Bitcoin options exchange that uses physically delivered (as opposed to cash settled) options-- again: everything is fine. Some traders will have bad or good days when positions move for or against them but every contract will be delivered as promised.

Now compare that to an exchange that offers leverage using paper bitcoins.  They will go bankrupt and be unable to process withdraws in at least one of those scenarios, depending on if they were net long or net short.

Competent execution means that the third model can go longer, get bigger, handle higher volatility before imploding. If they have high fees to bilk the customers or manipulation to move the odds more in the houses favor, all can help.  But the structure itself doesn't *guarantee* it won't implode and so it eventually will-- you just hope not in your lifetime, or not while you have funds on there.

Why expose yourself?  The risks are opaque to you and it's not like you're getting revenue sharing.   You can just choose to not do business with companies that have products that make them take on potentially unbounded liability.

It's not like they should be able to say anything to convince you-- FTX has long webpages about what would happen if their 'insurance fund' couldn't cover their needs and when push came to shove it was all meaningless.  The incentives for the operators are generally to continue to crank the risk until they fail-- the risk is *your* risk, and they make more profit by cranking it up at least until the wheels come off.

The same think applies to blockfi, Celsius, gemini earn...  8%/yr for just depositing bitcoin? Yeah turns out that just handed your bitcoins over to "funds" that paid them 15%/yr and those funds just invested them in "defi" ponzi schemes paying 20%/yr. ... Schemes most people wouldn't fall for because the 20%/yr yield alone made it pretty clear what it was and what would happen. The primary business of these entities was just a whitewashing front to make obvious ponzis less obvious, skimming off half the rewards (but not taking the risk).

When you hand over your coins to some else you're getting a debt in return.  In a non-debt economy you don't have to worry much about what your business partners are in.  But when you're getting a debt from them you absolutely do.  Some businesses are just bad and their badness is why they're willing to share them with you in the first place.

Badness is context specific.  A stock brokerage can offer margin to retail -- subject to a huge amount of limitations including limiting leverage to 2x, limiting what assets you can use it for, etc. in huge, super diversified and mature markets where the underlying assets have real value, managed by risk managed experts, and backstopped by industry and government supported insurance.  But none of that characterizes cryptocurrency market, especially the closer you get to shitcoins (because they're more volitile and more likely to turn out to be worth nothing by surprise, among other issues).  Unregulated, irresponsible, many assets which have absolutely zero value but trade at inflated prices for long spans, insanely volitile ... and then people want to slather 5x ... 20x or more leverage on top, and not via schemes that can guarantee delivery.

Because the markets are so non-transparent honest players who try to do less risky stuff will just be out-competed by the manic that has snorted the longest line of cocaine.

It's insanity.

And no matter how competent you think someone offering that insanity is: they fundamentally can't be or they wouldn't be in such a dumb business to begin with... so if the signal about their competence is misleading what else might be being misread?

Fact is that a fair portion of people who become rich do so not because they're smart but because they're stupid -- they make the bad gambles that have good rewards because others weren't so foolish as to take them... and it works until it doesn't.  That's clearly the business FTX was in (as shown by both Ellison and SBF posts about bet sizing), and you can reduce your risk of exposure by avoiding the businesses with bad models and obviously suspicious behavior and that's about all you can do because no one is going to just come out and tell you that their business is gonna gobble your money.

In some sense people are fortunate FTX was so incompetently run: If it were somewhat more competently run but still fundamentally based on a broken model then perhaps it could have ballooned to 10x its size* and caused a lot more damage when it imploded.

(*Keep in mind I think actual losses in FTX are probably overstated 3x - 20x; because they're counting paper bitcoin bought on margin they can't deliver as a liability.  But the real loss is the money put in that can't be recovered, not the value of the levered Bitcoin users never really owned because it never actually existed.)

From https://edition.cnn.com/2022/11/29/business/nightcap-sbf-lawyers/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2022/11/29/business/nightcap-sbf-lawyers/index.html)

From https://cointelegraph.com/news/bankman-fried-on-the-hook-in-texas-called-to-appear-at-feb-hearing (https://cointelegraph.com/news/bankman-fried-on-the-hook-in-texas-called-to-appear-at-feb-hearing)

More and more prosecutors are looking at the case. In several states, and in several countries (the Bahamas, first).
It will be very difficult for Bankman-Fried to avoid penalty.

Part of me thinks that he'll never see the inside of a jail cell.  More likely he'll get some sort of deal and have to stay in his penthouse in the Bahamas on house arrest while his 6 buddies diddle around with him.  At least that's how it would go in the US since he's greased all the right wheels.  However, FTX screwed a lot of people in a lot of different countries.  I assume one of them isn't corrupt and will go after him.  Not sure how much protection from every country the Bahamas offers, but I guess we'll soon find out.  Him not being arrested yet is a bit shocking.  I get that police are looking the other way on theft these days, but billions?

Will Sam be allowed to go to jail? Most likely not in my opinion because the democrats he has donated wouldn't want to see there and wiped along with his mistake. apart from that one reason, he may go back to jail but I don't think it will be in the Bahamas neither nor the US because after following some of the updates surrounding him, I was made to understand that he will reimburse all FTX. US users 100% of their balance and his extradition is unlikely and also during the cost of FTX collapse, he allowed some Bahamas investors to withdraw their investments because he doesn't want people to surround his compound, may be other countries may threaten him if they don’t get their funds from FTX international.

This year has been full of dramas and has affected bitcoin growth but rest assured, it will bounce back because the worst has happened in the past and we saw a new ATH of bitcoin price.

Connections, pushing for regulations, his parents.
These 3 are the reasons why he has little to no chance in getting to jail.

I know that many investors lost their money in investing into FTX, and I didn't lose a single penny on it (though I thought of buying it a few months ago) but there's nothing that investors can do about especially we know for a fact that he has many connections like Gary Gensler. There is a chance that he and his buddies that has a relationship with will not get jailed for what they've done to investors.

Damage has been done and investors already lose their money so putting him into jail will not change anything. The best thing that investors can do is to just avoid any ventures or projects that has a link or connection to SBF. Good still if he will get jailed, but him seeing roaming freely in the Bahamas isn't a good sign already.

though he has exposure of US gov.. where some think "uncle" grensler at the SEC will pardon him and just slap him with a fine

he is also being investigated also by the Bahamas authorities.. so THEY could find him guilty.

the Bahamas police announced that the government are doing investigations into possible criminal action


so while some think he can escape american prison. there is a chance of being locked up in a bahamas prison

The guy is even had a speaking attendance and engagement in New York. That's how the world goes, even if he has totally f* up with people's money, he's free in the wild talking nonsense to events.

Well, before he does speak some sense when people were like amazed on how the guy became big and a billionaire. But now, everything that he speaks, for sure no one will ever believe anymore.

I mean he's under house arrest in the Bahamas... if he sets a foot in a US airport the chances are that he would be arrested on the spot by US police. I don't think the government is *that* incompetent to let him go, especially since he has screwed around with like 10 celebrities and sports clubs/leagues.

Being arrested and being jailed are different things. If you commit a crime then they arrest you so that your whereabouts are known and you end up working towards building the case. In this example, he was arrested so he doesn't run away, meanwhile, they are building a case against him for what he did. The real punishment starts after he is found guilty. So even if he steps foot in the USA and gets arrested, that doesn't mean he will be jailed, it means he will get his day in court and after that, if he is found guilty then he will go to jail, if he isn't then he could still be let go after the arrest.

There is a chance, however, it will be a very small chance of almost 0 hehe. The government officials in much of the 3rd world countries are corrupt and they are also experts in creating a show that they are doing something for their country but they are really doing nothing.

If there are people who might be offended by this, I reckon you should look around you. We cannot deny this reality that part of the problem are corrupt and the unqualified people in the government. They do not have the public's interest in their hearts, only their own agenda.

Great news this morning!

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/12/12/business/sam-bankman-fried-arrested/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2022/12/12/business/sam-bankman-fried-arrested/index.html)

On U.S. charges, meaning it's quite likely Sam Bankman-Fried will be deported to New York. I'm very happy.

BTC is up!
I said it several times before. The bad guy is arrested, and that instantly restores confidence.

Now that's he's been arrested, it's worth addressing this.  If corruption is a factor, the question becomes whether SBF is still useful to those in power.  Donors are only influential while they can keep paying.  It's not like he's going to be making any further donations anytime soon.  No one is ever going to trust him to run a business again.  He's a complete pariah.  I'm not convinced a government would risk damaging their reputation to help out someone who is nothing but a liability at this stage.  It would be too much bad publicity.

The only thing keeping him out of jail is how well he has or hasn't covered his tracks.  And given that he seems like a complete idiot, I'm assuming he hasn't done that very well.  If they find the missing money and it turns out he has access to it, he's going away for a long time.

Don't want to add too much to the discussions but as pointed out exactly by gmaxwell -- it's the model that's flawed, the business (mal)practice. And the reason for that is also foundational, a board that was able to make decisions without any checks and balance, headed by people who, by their own admissions, didn't know what they were doing.

Right, anyway, so Bitcoin up because this guy got arrested? That doesn't make sense to me, but I suppose it's not a bad thing. Will he get what's coming? Doubt.

Even if seems most people think he wont be punished because of the political donations,i think its exactly because of this that he will,what i mean by this is that it will be painfully obvious if otherwise,they'll want to make him an example,probably wont be a long sentence but jail time is guaranteed i think.

As of today he is arrested and was requested extradition to US. I am not sure if that is the real reason why BTC have gone up to $17,800+ as of this time of writing and Ethereum around $1,340+. This could be a bull trap or a dead cat bounce which only leads to a temporary pump before correcting again. Just my opinion.

You would be happy to hear that the once dubbed "most generous billionaire" is now apprehended by the Bahaman Police Authority. Though this is just a drop of water against the sea of consequences he should be facing after accidentally admitting guilt from defrauding people of their hard-earned money following FTX's collapse, this is still a good start. I just hope that the US justice system couldn't be bought by these people, considering that he has donated millions of dollars to some politicians to earn their favor and trust, alongside having competent law professors for parents. I wouldn't be so certain about saying this could be the cause of bitcoin recovering a bit, it's still a long way to go and I don't think SBF's arrest would do much about bitcoin's price honestly. Although that being said his apprehension is a good thing and could connote even more greater things in the future for cryptocurrency.

Bahama news doesn't really make me feel any better, he is the type of guy that could find a way to get out and I am worried that he could do that too. After all, this is a guy who "stole" so much money that he could still find some money somewhere in some ledger a pay the people in Bahama and get out.

I am guessing that even in USA they can do that, I still believe many people who are said to die in prisons do not actually die but actually ended up with a new life somewhere else, or at worst case killed there knowingly. So all in all, I am guessing that the best thing to do would be just now assume he is jailed until we are certain about it for sure.

Yes he was arrested
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sam-bankman-fried-arrested-bahamas-ftx-fraud-charges/

But i do agree with those points and even he's on jail, it wont really be still an assurance that he wont be able to get out.A man with so much money from ftx
is something that could do almost everything.
Im not saying that i dont have any trust with authorities anymore but we know about corruption and bribe do always
happen. 8)

It looks like the question of @OP had been answered. SBF was arrested and is now denied of bail by Bahama's prosecutors.  It looks like the investigation will not stop on him because of lots of charges files against him including the conspiracy behind the FTX collapse.  Regardless I hope SBF be treated well, and deny him of VIP status so that he will experience the punishment of his wrong doings.

inmate number 14372 also known as scam bankman fraud. hired the legal council that also worked for ghislaine maxwell (epstiens female side pimp).
things didnt go well for her.
she tried to plead stupidity and ignorance. and now she is locked up

its weird but no surprise that he hired a team that are not financial/technology experts of exchange/bankruptcy expertise and instead hired a celebrity defender team of celebrities whom supposedly claim mental or visual issues as cause for defence

What everyone still needs is their money back. If FTX or Sam Bankman-Fried will give back all the money of customers/investors on FTX Exchange is far better and everyone will be happy.
There are also some people that are still hoping to get their hard-earned money back.
With this arrest of Sam Bankman-Fried could guarantee that these customers/investors' funds will get back? We'll never know.

I reckon it is impossible for the depositors to have their deposits made whole again after FTX has filed for bankruptcy. What would occur is similar to what the usual process is when a company files for bankruptcy. The assets of FTX would be sold and whatever is left after liabilities would be divided among creditors and depositors. I am not quite certain about the exact percentages and figures, however.

In any case, I very much thought that it would be CZ or Justin Sun who would be doing intentional fraud against the community. I was wrong hehehe.

Give them time, heh.  There are still ample opportunities for them or others to make a complete mess of things.  Plenty more failures to come, that much is guaranteed.  'Finex/Tether has to implode at some point.  We've got that to look forward to.    :D

So, Sam Bankman-Fried is in jail for at least 2 months, and we shall hope his example will force CEOs of other exchanges to behave, and not to mess with their clients' money. Sam Bankman-Fried was the worst, but Justin Sun's not much better, and there were issues with Binance as well.

The crypto-world will only get better if all the crooks are removed.

Your coins aren't losing any value. They still values a lot. Look at the price a decade ago and see the price now. You mean you lost money investing in those coins? Well, yes you lost money if you already sold the coins when the price of the coins were lower than what you have bought for. But if you are still holding your coins and haven't sold anything, then you haven't made any loss. Keep holding and if you can, buy more. By the way, SBF has already been arrested and had his court hearing. And we can already see the price go up, but then again, Binance is facing some questions, which might again affect the price of overall crypto market.

Bahamian authorities have arrested him but there is much criticism in various quarters as to whether he will go to jail. Because Sam Backman sponsored the political field for any purpose. So that the political authorities can support him if he is in any kind of danger. I think he will be released from the political cell.

As sleazy as politicians tend to be, they would have naturally assumed the donations were being made with legitimately earned funds.  Now that we know the legitimacy of Bankman-Fried's operation is very much in question, I don't think politicians will want to be associated with his money anymore.  If the media start publishing articles about how certain politicians are funded by criminal enterprises, those politicians are going to have difficulty getting re-elected.  I could be wrong, but I just don't think that's an issue anymore.  He's too toxic to bail out by those in power.

I'm starting to think that Republicans are sharpening their chops and knives to plunge/throw at Democrat seats in pretty much any kind of election that happens within the next few months; governors, counties, senate, reps, etc.

All using SBF political donations corruption as ammunition.

I don't think the main focus should be if SBF goes to jail or not, I think there are probably many other players who should be held accountable too. At the end of the day, FTx as a company stole billions from people who had considered them as a trustworthy institution. If people go to jail, everyone involved should.

Personally I am still in awe that this has even happened.

Part of me thinks that the whole teams belongs in jail.  The other part of me thinks that there had to be one person who made the decision to start defrauding people.  The rest of them were just doing their jobs right?  With how educated their team was, I can't decide if they were stupid kids who thought they were in control of the crypto space, or genius con artists who worked the laws to hide billions for themselves while giving their attorneys enough leeway to get them off without any serious consequences.  We'll see when things get to court.  I tend to think people as educated as them always had a plan and executed it, but there is a chance they were dumbass kids high on drugs that got way too much investment due to who they knew. 

Friend Your wish come true Sam Bankman  ( Freek) is arrested by Bahamas Police As we knows this man gives lose almost all the crypto community investors and now the authorities arrest him as a Global criminal ,
     Here's the report link,

                             https://www.bbc.com/news/business-63953096 (https://www.bbc.com/news/business-63953096)

I did not know some US politicians are so corrupt and shameless until they tried to incriminate CZ Binance for the FTX scam. There's going to be a tough prosecution. I hope justice will prevail

Might this become a lesson for the owners of exchanges to become transparent about their doings as people are trusted them but 2 months in prison, nothing really happens is not long enough to punish this person? He should stay there for a long-time just to give him time to realize their wrongdoings and never do it again. 

This scenario may change the view of the traders in a particular exchange, trust is heavily affected but I say it is good for at least people to know the consequences when putting money into an exchange.

I hope he gets the punishment he deserves, but most of all I hope the user gets most of his assets back. Although this can only be a good wish.

I'm expecting that.

So you received money from that crook?
The guy who is in jail?
The guy who stole millions?
Was that stolen money your received?
Will you give it back?

I do not think anyone, even CZ, is innocent in the whole situation. I find it very hard to believe that CZ and Bankman did not collude closely enough for CZ to be aware of what was going on. At the end of the day, CZ benefits very much from FTX collapsing. Binance now has a major footing within the US thanks to FTX collapse. In a macro view, this has even further effects/ramifications outside the confines of crypto, Binance and FTX.

I won't explain any further.

It is true that CZ has an impact on FTX crashes, but the main cause is SBF. If FTX does not have trouble before, then even if CZ attacks more, they will not crash. Like what Binance is going through, they are surrounded by many Fuds, but if they are transparent and do business properly, they will never follow in the footsteps of FTX.
Binance doesn't need to benefit from the fall of FTX because they are essentially the top exchange and bigger than any of the competitors in the market, including Coinbase, a veteran exchange in the market that debuted before binance.

The FUD attacks on binance are probably propagated by binance themselves, as they obviously have the reserves, and the fud campaign validates their reserves in a very public way.

That is a theory anyway. Otherwise, there is a lot of naivety in what you say. Firstly, SBF was not the only one responsible for FTX's demise, there were many many people involved. CZ and SBF collaborated in many ways. CZ is not innocent. Secondly, you are saying that Binance is not positively effected by the fall of FTX? Especially if it means that Binance takes FTX's position in the US and on top of that, majority of its customers, being the biggest alternative to FTX? That opinion is very flawed.

The collapse of FTX benefits Binance in every way possible. Binance gains more power in every way, customers, revenue, profit and political footing in arguably the largest consumer country in the globe.

It's naive, even wrong, to say that Binance is not very positively effected by the collapse of FTX. 

Binance benefited in any case, because FTX customers need a new exchange, and binance is popular enough to replace FTX. Of course, if Binance everything is fine, then nothing bad will happen, but at the same time, we see what kind of pressure is now happening on Binance and this provokes a large outflow of funds from the platform, this would be a very difficult period for any exchange, but if Binance survives this , it will become even stronger and more reliable in the eyes of users.

And Sam is not doing well, he was not allowed to get out on bail, and it looks like he's facing a very long prison sentence...

He was just apprehended by the Bahaman Police at the behest of the US justice force a few days ago. As of late they are rolling the case of FTX collapse and wether SBF is guilty of scamming millions of his customers worldwide, which the evidence thus far points towards that direction, or not. Just funny how Kevin "The Most Legal Scammer" O'Leary pinned the blame to CZ and Binance in his court statement, stating that the bank run he generated caused FTX to collapse or something along those lines. Personally I wouldn't buy his BS, but when you consider how senile the people who put our good ol' boy Zuck last 2019 to court, I have my doubts.

Your hypothesis about Fuds binance also makes sense because if Binance were unharmed after this, their reputation would have been further enhanced.
The fact that Binance did not benefit from the death of FTX is incorrect. I mean, there won't be a problem because in the US market alone, in addition to binance and FTX, we also have coinbase, a long-standing and reputable exchange in the US, and users will have more choices than Binance.us.
I only know that FTX is related to politicians, but I have not heard of binance involving politicians in the US.

I'm disgusted.
Less than 24 hours after being extradited to the US, the man is already freed. He paid a $250 million bail with stolen money.
You can't trust justice in America. Corrupt country...

The Bahamas did not agree to release him on bail of $ 250,000, I think now they regret that they did not set a 1000 times larger amount, this bail has already become the largest in the history of pre-trial hearings SBF released into the custody of dad and mom. :)
Moreover, he did not even need to pay this amount, but simply under the guarantee of a personal guarantee.

At this point I am 100% convinced that this guy is not just incompetent and foolish, but also a downright criminal as well.

"I don't know where the money went" well you just paid with (some of) it for a bail!

Oh yeah, bad America!
If they left SBF alone, the damn corrupt nation, they don't arrest him, if they do arrest him, why do they involve themselves in an inquiry on Bahamas soil, if they sentence him to life in prison why they don't do that for all murderers, if they release him on bail, no that's bad he should rot already in prison!
When his girlfriend was free why isn't she in jail, when she was arrested why is she arrested before SBF?

Madoff was released on a 10 million bail only to be sentenced to 150 years in prison when he died, so, what's the problem with the bail?
Do you think that throwing him in prison till the trial will be one of those GoT scenes where he is tortured every day and has to eat rat droppings or what?

Btw, just like in Madoff's case, the bail was not paid by SBF as he has no money right now in his name, it was a bail placed on his family real estate and two guarantors till 10% of the full sum, so if he runs he will leave his parents with all the debt and legal consequences.

Can he be arrested at any time after he is released on bail? The problem is that the US has the final say on this law.
SBF still has a lot of money in his hands, will that money be used to continue to buy freedom, no, it is our money, and it will be used to buy him freedom? This is ridiculous.

The whole situation is weird, I don't if you guys follow Twitter but 3-4 days ago SBF was at aiport:

https://i.ibb.co/TtJK5Jp/sbf.png (https://imgbb.com/)
Source (https://twitter.com/litcapital/status/1606380998056415236?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1606380998056415236%7Ctwgr%5E743c77e22c54ac3dd5c035040cbdb7b6545afbfb%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcointelegraph.com%2Fnews%2Fsam-bankman-fried-found-chilling-in-jfk-airport-lounge-on-250m-bail-bond)

It's weird that he can use a laptop, internet, smartphone, travel in business class...
He is very calm and quiet for a person who could possibly be sentenced to many years in prison.
It seems that he has some cards in his hands that can save him and we don't know yet.

Alternatively, he could be resigned to his fate.  Trying to make the most of his remaining freedom before he gets put away for a very long time. 

Not that I'm condoning it, mind.  It just seems to track, given that he's shown no real remorse for his actions so far.

His family is willing to pay 250 million just for him to be released, which is enough to show that they have a lot of money (although it could be investors' money). But in my opinion, even in the US, a country that is considered to have strict laws, when you have a lot of money, nothing is impossible to buy.
For a person who knows he is about to receive a high punishment for what he has done, no matter how optimistic he is, it is impossible to be in such a good mood.

I'm not surprised, many people think that once he's caught, he'll pay for what he's done. Don't forget what he did for politicians and his relationships. I think he is not only holding 1 card to be able to rescue him but he is probably holding dozens of cards. Like Dokwon, so far he hasn't been caught and we seem to have forgotten about him because of other news. SBF too, we will soon forget everything and he will be fine. There are many ways for SBF.

I am very disappointed with this decision, this was really beyond my expectations, at first I felt calm even though I was still disappointed with SBF because he was in the process of being tried for imprisonment. But with the news I got today, I feel like asking him for a 1 vs 1 fight.
Apart from his wealthy family, he must have had the support of practitioners from within the government who were influential and orchestrated all the judgment, the attitude he gave the people showed calm and no worries from his mind and heart, this was enough for me there was someone else behind everything. this. , but I can't say for sure who's in line with the SBF so far.
Justice may only be for those who have money.

What do you expect from him, to cry and scream in public? Its not like he was arrested yesterday so he is in shock. Guy was just released on bail and will spend the trial living in his parents house so he might be even happy.


I highly doubt that since his gf Caroline and buddy Gary already snitched to get a lower sentence so my guess is that it is very unlikely for SBF to avoid prison as he was on the top of the scheme.

When I saw the news I was sickened.

I am even more sickened that the real people responsible are still not being talked about.

I'm honestly a little confused as Reuters/Yahoo! reported (https://sg.news.yahoo.com/ftxs-bankman-fried-released-stringent-195827316.html) that the terms of his bail would mean he would have to remain indoors:


Are we sure this image of him at an airport is current and not from prior to his arrest?  Or are they using a plane to send him back to his parents?  Either way, he's not completely free.

I'm honestly a little confused as Reuters/Yahoo! reported (https://sg.news.yahoo.com/ftxs-bankman-fried-released-stringent-195827316.html) that the terms of his bail would mean he would have to remain indoors:


Are we sure this image of him at an airport is current and not from prior to his arrest?  Or are they using a plane to send him back to his parents?
[/quote]

I would imagine that he spends a lot of his time indoors anyway. Hardly a harsh term.

It reminds me I was talking weeks ago with an acquaintance about a similar scam in crypto (Celsius). I told him the scam involved too many investors (2 million) and too much money (12$ billion in assets) to end without serious consequences for the individuals involved. Then he expressed a sarcastic smile and told me: someone who steals that sum of money doesn't go to the prison...

And I thought, well, it really makes sense. When you realize what money can buy and what are the connections of those people, you understand there isn't any justice at all. i was talking about Mashinsky, but with Sam Bankman Fried things go even deeper, because he has direct access to the american highest governmental level. His mother was directly attached to Biden's campaign and the democrat party.

These people have the power to say what is right and what is wrong. Unfortunatelly events like this just reveal corruption has rotted the sectors of our socities that should be protecting us from that corruption.

It's a shame his money is paying for his bail. His money and patrimony should be going to his victims' pockets, instead.

This part of the news article that says that he is required to undergo mental health treatment and evaluation might find something that will lower his sentence. If everyone remembers, some of the other news articles mentioned Sam and his team took amphetamines for more productivity when they were working in the office. However, there are some types of amphetamines that can turn some people into impulsive gamblers.

I reckon Sam's lawyer can use this as a plead for a type of temporary insanity because he was under the influence of drugs.

He claimed battling depression in order to be released on bail, when you came to any kind of claim like this the judge will require you to go through an evaluation, which is quite common and it saves the court the trouble of another evaluation when the actual hearing starts as well. Neah, the insanity excuse has flown a long time ago, he can't play that card, especially since that would mean he was under the influence even during events like the testimony in Congress a year ago,  he won't go through something that can send him in more troubles, he will just say he was stupid, he made mistakes but he truly believed everything was fine, just like a kid would say he's sorry

 

There are plenty of videos of him giving interviews, he can't say he was under influence everyday...
Still, with crazy American justice, it might work. I didn't know it was possible, but the $250 million bail which set him free, he hasn't paid a single dollar.

Looks like we won't have to wait too much longer to find out what is going to happen to our deal old Sam Bank-Fraud.  With a plea deal expected to come next week, we'll learn what cushy jail he'll be spending his time in for probably nowhere near as long as he should.  It's absolutely insane to me that Sam can be outside of a jail cell while Ross Ulbright remains in custody.  It goes to show that it's never about the people.  It's about control and while Sam's attempt to grab control for the government failed, they can still control those who are fighting for freedom and their fellow citizens. 

my view of ross ulbright is that although(no proof) it appears that he was not personally handling the drugs, he was actually running a modern a drug house/den

much like gangsters in america use kids to handle the drugs but the gangboss financially benefits from the drug deals the kids do. so he isnt innocent

however scam-bankman-fraud is also not innocent and has not put any money down to get bail. and if he absconded his parents can just do an alex jones and file bankruptcy to avoid paying the fine.(bail debt)

financial crimes have financial loop holes which if you are well versed in finances you can get away with most of the time

Although, two of his closed associates have pleaded guilty and are cooperating with the authorities concerning the investigation, Sam Bankman-Fried has pleaded "not guilty" and the trial has been adjourned to 2 October 2023.

Source: https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/03/business/sam-bankman-fried-plea/index.html

I don't understand why the trial was adjourned to October, again it makes me feel that SBF will never go to jail. Every decision is in his favor even if his 2 accomplices have pleaded guilty and he is unharmed, he is not in custody, and he is under house arrest with a Tracking Device. This is too lenient for what he did. When the SBF accepted extradition to the US, I began to believe that US law would save him, and now everything seems to be precisely what I was thinking.

I did comment on this point in another topic in the Press board, but I guess it got nuked.  The trial taking place in October gives computer forensic experts more time to gather all the evidence they need to nail him to the wall.  That's a good thing.  A rush to trial with a lack of evidence would not be desirable.

Are they really looking for more evidence to convict him, or are they trying to buy time for things to be forgotten? In my opinion, the confession of his ex-girlfriend Caroline and the co-founder of FTX is enough to convict him without further evidence. Immediately after being extradited to the US, he was released on bail, and now that his impeachment trial is suspended until October just because he refuses to plead guilty, I am really confused by the court's decision.

Based up on some movie similar situations which is attached on real life situations then they are really just trying out to buy time for these things to be forgotten and they would really be cherishing out and
making use of those funds of those FTX users.

It is really just sad that money can bought everything even that Justice where those affected users been hoping for but for me if im one of these affected users
then i wont really be raising my hopes up for any justice for this case.Its better to move on and learned a lesson on a hard way.

in law two things need to be established
A- an event was a crime
b- who was involved

without the ex GF and ex employee guilt pleas, there would have been extra trial time needed to prove that a crime was committed. so their pleas helped speed things along

however their pleas can provide SBF an exit by saying the crimes were only comminuted by ex gf and ex employee and he had not involvement i the activities of them

the next 10 months will have ample time for the prosecution to audit records and find evidence to link SBF to things. and well yea time for his defence to find excuses/stories to detach from the activities

devils advocate, playing scenarios in head. i can see SBF defence being something like this:
"many now ex-colleagues and ex girlfriends had access to keys of the co-mingled funds. all they needed to do was to inform a phone number via text(DM of social chat app) of their intentions to move funds and get a thumbs up emoji that the intentions were acceptable.. but can anyone prove using CCTV footage of who was handling the phone doing the acceptable emoji's or who was signing transactions.. because ex-colleagues and ex-GF stayed in my mansion alot, and my phone was accessible to these people to send themselves texts or write tx's and sign via my devices and their own"

however... now looking into things more about viable defence stories SBF lawyers can spout/generate.. SBF ex lawyer in bahamans is cooperating with authorities to give evidence against SBF
which will be more nails in the coffin for point (b) above

---

in other news about the $250m, zero-upfront bail deal(that meant to be sealed):
apparently SBF's new US lawyers have taken control/ownership of SBF bahama real estate(worth over $300m) and so they put that up as signed collateral incase of absconding. and the judge knowing the lawyers law licenses/reputation were also on the line if they dont pay up if he did abscond, trusted that the money would be paid,(but currently unable to be paid recently because its not liquid(its brick and mortar)) and thus no upfront amount or deposit was needed.. but shh no one should know this as its been sealed

Money is really omnipotent. I used to cowardly think that money can only solve some problems, but my misunderstanding, because if you think money can't solve problems, it must be because there is not enough money.SBF's expression made me see calmness, calmness and no sense of fear, it should be that he does have the capital to resist the killing of the outside world.

We're here for the money, and that's how the world works, so I think there's no need to be sad about it, the world has been like that for thousands of years, and it's never been fair. SBF can go to jail, but it won't be for too long, and the victim's money will never be returned. Government can confiscate assets from SBF, but they will not pay investors, but instead they will continue to use them for their political purposes, which is the greed of any government.

I have heard that he was detained by police and he was busted. And there was really big drama behind this. And Now he was also bailed out of total 250 millions of dollars and that was biggest Bail I have ever heard. And I do not know that why this is happening with us. And that's not good at all.

I initially thought that SBF's chances to get off with a black eye might be real, but when I conducted further research and checked several written sources and videos where he is taking and giving interviews, I really believe that this is not going to end well for him. The story he is trying to convey comes with a huge gap between his purported intellect over the past years building such an empire and the intellectual and practical deficiencies he now claims to suffer from that ultimately led to FTX's demise. There are so many allegations in the room and he keeps claiming that he didn't know the tiniest thing about any of them. I wonder how far such a strategy can actually carry someone in front of a jury and a judge. He transferred billions in hidden moves to Alameda Research and now he is really trying to tell people at court that he didn't know about those transfers and so on. No way.

Is the court obligated to ultimately prove that SBF initiated such transfers? If all the circumstantial evidence is overwhelmingly conclusive, would a court still have to prove that he pushed the button eventually? I mean SBF is really talking nonsense as if he was on the wildest drug cocktail ever.

Jail is full of scammers and the cycle repeats itself, jailing or not, will have no effect on the real change, and this change must come from the individual who entrusts his money to a third party.

 That it happens in the Fiat environment is something that there is no way to avoid, but if there is a bitcoin (crypto) environment, open mind to  NYKNYB(C) premise.

In principle you are right, but I wonder what the liquidity situation in the Bitcoin market specifically would be looking like when all people withdrew all their funds to personally controlled wallets? I haven't been looking into any decentralized trading solutions for Bitcoin to be honest, but I guess that even exchanges played a positive role to some degree in terms of making Bitcoin accessible to the masses. On the one hand those zero regulated exchanges caused a lot of harm when they disappeared out of a sudden, but on the other hand it has never been easier to get access to an asset class from anywhere in the world ever. This is not to say that I generally think it's a good thing to have these shitty exchanges implode, explode, scam, conducting inside jobs and what not. But truth be known, I suppose it eventually helped the Bitcoin excitement spread like wildfire all over the globe.

I'm curious to see how long he actually serves. As a result of his parents' high status in the legal world, the fact that bail was granted, and money was paid is telling.
I can't wait to see how the defense comes up with a strategy.
Perhaps it is more pertinent to ask the judge(s) and prosecutor whether they take things as easy as possible on SBF because of their legal and professional influence, which can shape a lawyer's future career.

The evidence seems to be supporting that there are a lot more folks who are likely deserving of indictments, including but not limited to SBF's parents... So, hopefully we are going to be seeing a few more heads rolling at some point..... but it could take a bit of time before such additional indictments come out... and sure there are a lot of skeptics who likely believe that justice might not be served in this case.... and hopefully some of this information is going to become more and more available with the various simultaneous bankruptcy proceedings too.. .. including figuring out the extent to which some of the Bahamian government officials might have been wrapped up in some of the shenanigans (and possibly even cover up attempts, perhaps?).  Of course, as a reference point, this seems to be way more complicated with an interwebbing of various companies as compared with the Bernie Madoff matter.. or even more intricate than the Enron matter... so hopefully the civil investigations or even reports of the current wind-down bankruptcy CEO (or would it be trustee?) JohnRay III might end up contributing information that can be used in the separate criminal proceedings.. so yes, lots of overlap and hopefully not covered up as much as some folks might believe to be the end results in the criminal culpability speculations.

@JJG
SEC is investigating the spokespeople and large investors to see how much due diligence they done because some of them are fiduciaries and are suppose to protect customers..

cough o'leary cough

---

@mvdheuvel1983
as for time served for SBF..
lets hope that its statutory maximums to be served consecutively where he is guilty of all 8 (one after the other..)
and not statutory minimums of only a couple, to be served concurrently(both at same time)

I am all for harsh punishments when it comes to fraud on a scale like SBF pulled it off. What makes me a little angry about it though is that bankers got away quite well after the financial crisis and that crisis led to a lot of destroyed lives all over the world (https://ig.ft.com/jailed-bankers/).

Taking into account the magnitude of the overall damage caused during the financial crisis, the jail sentences seem to have been pretty low. I am not 100% into the details now but if SBF is guilty in regards to all the allegations, what would the maximum sentence be that he could be facing?

Most media outlets are reporting he could face up to 115 years:

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/sam-bankman-fried-could-sentenced-120900684.html
https://www.fxstreet.com/cryptocurrencies/news/samuel-bankman-fried-could-face-a-maximum-sentence-of-115-years-in-prison-for-ftx-exchange-collapse-202212150935
https://www.businessinsider.com/sam-bankman-fried-ftx-sbf-alameda-sentenced-115-years-prison-2022-12

So a fairly long time, really.

@DooMAD. Someone in social media called Marco Polo discovered something thst might make it very doubtful that Sam Bankrupt-Fried would serve a 115 year sentence. This might also be one of the reasons why he is so brave in declaring his not guilty plea.

What does this imply for Caroline and Gary Wang if Sam is judged innocent? Will it be Caroline and Gary did not kill themselves?



At the time of this writing, SBF has two attorneys in his criminal case (22-cr-00673) in the SDNY: Mark Cohen and Christian Everdell. The duo from Cohen & Gressler LLP represented sex trafficker Ghislaine Maxwell

While SBF’s criminal case has generated the most headlines, Marco Polo noticed a familial connection between one of the entities suing SBF on the civil side—the Securities & Exchange Commission (SEC)—and Everdell. Indeed, Everdell’s wife is a “Senior Counsel” in the NY office of the SEC, the very office suing SBF

Source https://marcopolousa.substack.com/p/pillow-talk-benefitting-sbf

What are the assurances that Everdell's wife will not relay information to her husband about the prosecutor's side of the case?



Also, this is head shaking. What is this telling us? There is a possbility for a postponed trial to an unknown date?



Prosecutors are telling lawyers connected to @SBF_FTX fraud investigation the case is so sprawling that it could exhaust resources of the southern district since it includes potential bribery, campaign contribution violations, market manipulation on top of theft & fraud

Source https://mobile.twitter.com/cgasparino/status/1612449174225551361

the bankers of 2007 had better lawyers for the 50+ years prior to the 2007/8 banker fraud.
their business plan used legal loopholes to fraud american population.
so that is why the bankers got away with it. its not fraud if its just legal loophole "sub prime mortgages"
with charters and "series 7 exams", they were licenced bankers and brokers to do alot more than an average joe could g4et away with

SBF on the other hand only had teachings from his mom, dad and gensler. and the ego to think he knew enough, and knew enough people to get away with it
thats the difference

---

when a "max sentence" is X..
anyone can say someone may not serve full X
because X is the max

consecutive sentences= max 115 years
concurrent sentences = ~25 years
plead guilty before october trial =reduced sentence

personally. i feel murder and rape should always be 100years + no matter what
when it comes to financial crimes, to be honest. should not be treated worse than rape or murder

however penalties like a fine or probation.. screw that he needs to do serious prison time, and i dont mean 3-5years

id be happy to see a 20-50 year term for a multi million dollar theft/fraud, affecting hundreds of thousands of lives

Multi-billion*

There should be at minimum a guideline formula to calculate time sentenced for fraud, the fact that this is not default by now is a bit ridiculous.

$1 = 1 minute
$60 = 1 hour
$1,440 = 1 day
$14,400 = 10 days
$144,000 = 100 days
$1,400,000 = 1000 days (3.5 years)
$12,783,748 = 9131.249 days (25 years max sentence)
 
- Fraud with multiple perpetrators divides the total amount between then to determine their sentence
- Exceeding max sentence results in compounding or consideration.
- Second chance to give back as much as possible for reduced sentence, depending on what was returned.

By this logic, anyone who was aware of the SBF fraud and partook in it should be going away for a long time considering the monumental amount of fraud.

This is a guideline that took me 5 minutes to come up with. A day with justice professionals could do a much better job. It could be a lot better used for institutions where fraud is rampant, where real jail time is almost always eluded and generally there are dozens/hundreds of knowing perpetrators.

But why would a recognized criminal stay this long without being sentenced already, this is pure wickedness.

The rich are simply backed even when they are obviously wrong.
My wishes are not harsh but for him to serve as a scapegoat to others who thinks money laundering and internet fraud shouldn't be tackled roughly.

This long? FTX fiasco happened few months ago and he was just recently charged so its not like we are waiting for years something to happened. Or you think all this procedure, presumption of innocence etc should be forgotten and people instantly sentenced to life in jail/hand cut off for theft like in some backward country?


Bernie Madoff got 150 years for his pozni scheme, so its not like scams haven;t been dealt with in the past. Its just that SBF thought that he can get away with it and even if he gets harsh sentence, it won't stop someone else from doing something similar in the future.

yes and no... depends what spreadsheet you read as to holdings/value...... and amounts lost/found

for instance most debt is based on FTT tokens(valueless and speculative)

it had maybe 20k in bitcoin

all the media hype of "worth $32billion" "9billion missing"  "$3.x billion" "$1.x bilion"
these numbers are getting lower and lower by the month


there is.. and it even comes with a point scoring system too..
https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/guidelines-manual/2015/2B1.1.pdf
(read the "base levels" (points/score). find the add-ons for severity/amounts lost.. .. then substitute any take offs for first offense or plead guilty before trials (plea deals)

heres one example
https://www.ussc.gov/guidelines/2021-guidelines-manual/annotated-2021-chapter-5


so if guilty he scores 37 on just that 1 charge

https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/guidelines-manual/2021/Sentencing_Table.svg

210-262 months for first offense(no history) = 17.5-21.9 years

The way advance countries handle things or cases are different and far better than African countries. African leaders jail people without investigation. But advance countries investigate the cases and the advantages and disadvantages it the crime. Luna' s founder was jailed after some month later of the collapsed of stable coin. As for the FTX founder, I don't think he will be jailed.

South Korea issued an arrest warrant for Do Kwon last September but he is still on the run. Latest news is that he is currently hiding in Europe (Serbia) so no jail for him yet.


I was pessimistic at first too, but after how buddies pleaded guilty and getting away with fines and no prison as long as they cooperate, I don't think that the will avoid some jail time alltogether. I don't expect him getting like 30 years in prison, but I can see him spending couple of years in a minimum security prison.

the sentancing guidelines dont work like that (see my post above)
i can see him averaging 20 years each charge and see a deal of doing them concurrently if more then one charge sticks. so min of 17.5

in short.. to get a sentence of just a couple years. the theft/fraud/ has to be of value of less than $150k

What if he eventually pleads guilty before trial starts, you don't think that he can get better deal than those 17.5 years? I for sure hope that you are right, but I would be very surprised if he gets anything remotely close to that sentence.


In my country rich people regularly get lower sentences than they should according to the law on the count of some bullshit reason and I would be surprised if its not like that in the United States too.

unless he can "buy down" the debts to lessen the score.
(find the money in the accounts.... compensate some/all victims)

and
get awarded some minus points by pleading guilty before trial..

and
maybe only be convicted of one count..

chances of doing less than 17.5 years are small

It appears the quickness and speed of how long the regulators act on a case also depends on who were scammed by the scammers. Sam Bankrupt-Fried has chosen the wrong people to scam hehehehe. According to some news articles, the investors that Sam scammed included Robert Kraft the owner of the New England Patriots, Tom Brady the quarterback of Tampa Bay Buccaneers, his super model wife Gisselle Bünchen, Joe Tsai the cofounder of Alibaba and other sports celebrities.

Do Kwon might have done it correctly because he only scammed his users and his fellow ponzi schemers hehe. It is speculated that he is in Singapore.

FTX was never "big" in regards to customer numbers (ftx 1.2m customers vs coinbase 60m vs binance 25m)
FTX was never "big" in regards to asset numbers (FTX 20k btc vs greyscale 640k vs binance 575k)

but yes FTX services big names, big corporate accounts. and so yes FTX got "big fame" and now big charges

most scammers know. to avoid lengthy court sentences. keep value low
many prefer to scam under $1k a user because its not financially worth taking someone to court for $1k if the court costs are more then $1k a user, even in a class action(the lawyers end up the only winners)

scam bank-man fraud. got too greedy and wanted to rub shoulders and backstab the same shoulder too much

Various media have reported on Do kown hiding locations in Singapore and Serbia, maybe your explanation above is very logical because without the involvement of important people in the loss case, the case will be handled slowly and may not be prioritized. Even if the reason is due to the extradition process because South Korea does not have an extradition agreement with the Council of Europe, any efforts can be communicated with other countries to help the process of catching fraud perpetrators even if they are in the territory of other countries. This case is very different from FTX, SBF has been arrested even though he is in another country and of course the role of the victim from important people is very influential to emphasize that this case must be resolved immediately.

I hate to promote Governmental overreach, but Yes, maybe the USA needs to file criminal charges against Do Kwon too and seek his extradition.. I recall that a subpoena had been served upon him in September 2021 when he was at a conference in NY.. but I think that the SEC had not been pursuing that aggressively in recent times.... even though it seems that in June 2022 a US Federal judge had order that Do Kwon comply with the SEC subpoenas... even though probably the Korean government has more criminal issues regarding Do Kwon.. we still know that Do Kwon was getting support, investment and people buying his various tokens from all kinds of individuals and companies all over the world.

Terraform Labs and Do Kwon Ordered To Comply With SEC ... (https://blockworks.co/news/terraform-labs-and-do-kwon-ordered-to-comply-with-sec-subpoena#:~:text=A%20US%20federal%20judge%20has,%2C%202021%2C%20court%20filings%20show.)

Relatively easy bureaucracy has made many former criminal cases ranging from fraud until to corruption cases feel quite comfortable living in Singapore. Seems Singapore give special thing for people facing criminal cases and run away much money, have possibility with Do Kwon save and use Singapore casino as place for saving his assets based on happening in my country when corrupt hold his money at Singapore Casino.

South Korea have build with serious bilateral relations between countries are detecting hidden place for Do Kwon between Singapore or Serbia, have to give punishment after stealing much investor money and make him poor without have anything in his pocket.

Do Kwon should not have been allowed to leave the US if he was already in trouble with the law because the judge had ruled that he had to comply with a subpoena about the case, but in reality he had fled and left the US to hide in another country. Various lawsuits have been pending without the defendants appearing in court and it is regrettable that they were unable to handle kwon while in the country. Latest news, One of the reports from Albright Capital regarding the case related to Terraform Labs and Do kwon has voluntarily dropped the lawsuit, I can't believe they decided to drop the case so quickly before getting the necessary factual response from the lawsuit.

Albright Capital drops lawsuit against Terraform Labs and Do Kwon (https://cointelegraph.com/news/albright-capital-drops-lawsuit-against-terraform-labs-and-do-kwon)

For sure there is a higher level of culpability that would likely already need to be known to take someone into custody right away (upon serving a Subpoena or something like that), and then even if they had taken him into custody, in order to actually keep him in custody, they would have had to have had a decent amount of evidence to feel confident (and to show a judge) that he was guilty of a crime that involved jail time and that he was likely to be convicted and sentenced to such crime and jail time and also that he was a flight risk.. ..

You seem to be getting ahead of yourself if you are expecting that USA authorities were even close to having that level of criminal culpability or that much confidence in their case against Do Kwon in September 2021..

Yeah, they took one of the Bitmex founders into custody quite quickly, so sure it is possible that they might have had enough evidence to take Do Kwon into custody.. but I don't know.. it just seems to me that you are engaging in wishful thinking (and even Monday morning quarter-backing to see what happened later - in May 2022 and thereafter) to presume that the USA authorities had a sufficient amount of criminal evidence in September 2021 when the served that subpoena on him... .. and it does not even appear that the September 2021 subpoena was criminal in nature.. only a civil subpoena at that time... there's a difference between a civil and a criminal subpoena, you know?).

There might be no need, I reckon. Do Kwon did not take money from anyone important. He only took the money of ordinary American people. Seeking for his extradition might begin in 5 years if the government remembers him or it might also never happen heheehe.

copying from other topic to save re-writing
i explained his charges and sentencing "points" better here(previous page of THIS topic)


key details:
he didnt have $100b of VIABLE real assets..
he had~20k btc (min value $340m) meaning if he defraided/mismanaged/ stole then the charges are higher than $1m

id say his business was maybe $8bill value. and his frauds were worth more then $340m

He did a terrible thing and he deserve to be in jail, but there is a problem because SBF has money, power and he is very influential person where someones backing him up. The media is also behind this backing him up coz the news all over the internet spread the FTX scandal but the mainstrem media did not tackle the issues regarding about it. He is also a donor in political party that helps him about the case. The man has power but he really deserce to go in jail, let's see what will happen in the investigations.

Sam bankman fried was arrested on December 13 2022, the arrest took place after the prosecutor's office received an official notification from the United States, even though sam bankman fried had been charged with eight criminal charges including fraud and money laundering but sam bankman fried still pleaded not guilty, the court even acquitted sam bankman fried with a guarantee of USD 250 million or the equivalent of 3.8 trillion, the explosion of the ftx collapse case sent a new shock wave through the cryptocurrency industry, which pushed the value of bitcoin sharply lower for 2022 .

Although the crash of FTX caused a shock wave in the crypto world, it did not, in my view, cause bitcoin to plummet as you say. If I'm not mistaken, before the FTX crash, bitcoin price was at 17k, 18k, and after the crash bitcoin dropped to 15.5k. This drop is nothing compared to previous drops from ATH to $30k or the demise of Luna. The collapse of FTX only caused significant damage to those investors who had trusted to leave their money on FTX.

FTX drama may not have significant impact with bitcoin's price but we have seen that sentiments were fairly negative at that period.
Now, that FTX is claiming they seemingly to recover about $5B assets, the mood changes as people see hope for this case.
But in any case, I don't think SBF will be jailed as it seems, there are financial backers that may possibly want to bail him out.
Bail him out meaning, there may be big financial investors that will possibly assist in the recovery of his business.

any business that sees another business with a customer list(bigdata) of 1.2m people willing to invest ~$400m(combined) in bitcoin alone(20k of btc) is a $300 'product purchase' per customer, userbase which they can earn atleast $1 a trade in fee's per user (over $1m per trade combined users) does look appealing for any business wanting to operate and manage those customers for a few years.

..
however scam bankman fraud would really need to prove that customer lost alot less then the "billions" to bring his crime rating number down. and then talk about a deal to swap consecutive jail time for a combined fine. if he ever wants a chance of seeing freedom anytime soon

that's for sure, because surely there will be big investors who take advantage of this situation to save SBF and later want to work together to build again on several cryptocurrency projects, I'm very sure of that.
dramas like this are very predictable, of course, behind SBF there are many supporters who want to help or instead take advantage of the situation for personal gain in the future to cooperate with SBF and maybe SBF if in prison will also be placed in a special place.

about the FTX collapse, maybe it has a little effect on the price of bitcoin because there is an impact from it all, but we all know that the impact is only temporary and will definitely recover again.

5.5 billion were recovered, including cash, crypto assets, and securities. But the amount that FTX has to pay to the victims is estimated at 10-13 billion, so I think it is very difficult for retail investors to receive compensation. I think FTX will prioritize compensation to large shareholders and companies so that they continue to avoid bankruptcy and cause more collapses. And for retail investors really too fragile to receive any compensation.

be aware.. those numbers include the VALUELESS/worthless crap token FTT
where by some of the users "balance" were deemed worth X due to 2021 highs. rather than their deposit amount

what users expect is the high. but what accountants will end up showing will be a lower balance value based on a non high month

I don't think Sam Bankman Fried go to jail. Since he was denied bail in the Bahamas. Bankman-fried has been held at the fox hill correctional center in nassau with five other people.

^
old news from december
since then he has been moved to america, went to court in america and given bail and currently living with his parents. the trial is set for october 2023. i hope you are upto date now

It did. BTC was over 20k before the FTX collapse, and that made BTC loose more than 15% of its value within less than 24 hours, so that was really a shock. The most troublesome being that SBF was seen as the good guy. A man you can trust. If he's a crook, then the whole crypto world is corrupted...

I still don't understand how the man managed to be freed on bail without actually funding that bail, but at last, somehow, justice is on the way. Or some perverted kind of justice? I see the case as a test for the US judicial system.

scam bankman fraud was dong nothing different than the fiat bankers.. but dont tar crypto with the brush of fiat banker mindset
yes they have services setup at the offramps of crypto. but that does not mean that a crypto asset is bad due to wrecklessness of human greed at the edges

also the bail was a contract of 3 relatives plus a lawyer being "trust" of $300m of SBF collateral which they would surrender to the court if SBF were to abscond. due to some relatives and lawyer having some legal licences that can also be revoked if they fail to pay the obligations upon absconding, the court judge at the time(has a personal connection to them) decided that was enough leverage to scare SBF into not running, and enough fear to the "trust" licence revokes and reputation harm of the $250m bail amount to ensure payment would be made if abscond.. thus no real money needed to change hands(though it should have done!)

You see, for SBF is trying to help in every possible way, even the recent detection of funds (about 4 billion) is aimed at somehow softening the negative attitude towards him and mitigating the punishment for him, and the postponement of the trial to October is also designed for this, this is the competent work of lawyers, who earn a lot of money for their work.

Of course, the collapse of the FTX had a great impact on the price of bitcoin, but now we can say, that bitcoin won back this drawdown, with a recent movement to 21k. The market recovered quite quickly and the positive news about the discovered funds played an important role in this.

Yeah, that is a simplified way thanks for explaining this. I knew he got on bail, I knew it was something to do with collateral, and I know a lot of people think it's not right but legally, this is what happens all the time. No money moved.

Now that they've also recovered 5 billion, this bail amount doesn't seem much at all, especially if the most likely is that it will harm future reputation of all involved. And you know for sure this isn't the end for them, they want to pick up again.

I don't think big investors will find a way to save him and will cooperate with him in the future, with the scam scandal, no one will have the courage and confidence to invest in any project in which with the presence of SBF or Dokwon. Recently, the founder of Three Arrows Capital wanted to raise capital to open an exchange called GTX, and they received more ridicule and criticism than support. Shows that scammers of the past, they will never get a chance to contribute to the market again.

that game is simple
if 3AC had say $3,500m of debt it owes customers(via other agents/companies)
if it can get those customers to sell their(other agents/companies) user accounts for say 10% of whats owed
then for $350m it can write off its own $3.5b debts to customers

their not doing it out of the goodness of their hearts to give money to customers.
its to buy back their own debt at discount to then lower their own bills they owe customers in the bankruptcy route by getting customers to give up their right over their account balances owed

thus if there was say $2b found in the bankruptcy administration accounts. they can cut off their $3.5b down to $350m. thus then the 3AC get to keep $1.65b themselves free and clear and not have to proceed with bankruptcy/class actions to try and find $3.5b to cover all customer obligations

funnier thing
they quote
basically suggesting not getting real value out to give to said customers but swapping the customers account rights/debt. into a new [lets call it a GTT] token ('equity of their company'). which they can then trade if they can get any outsider cex to then accept the token they create

Yes, it's twisted but they say it's legal so I guess it is. What I criticize is that if I would be arrested (or any average person) with the possibility to be freed on bail, I wouldn't be able to do anything like that. I hope that when it will come to penalty, SBF will get the normal penalty, and not anything twisted like this.

News update.

Whoever is behind Sam Bankrupt-Fried might be ready to terminate him if he begins to show that he will talk and tell the truth behind the real purpose of the creation of FTX.

I have said this months before. If something happens, Sam did not kill himself.



In a recent court filing, lawyers demanded the kith and kin of Bankman-Fried to answer questions and furnish financial documents about their personal wealth. In addition, lawyers have also asked for other documentation that may reveal any sort of FTX money transfer.

The filing went on to disclose that Sam Bankman-Fried’s brother, Gabriel Bankman-Fried, founded an organization that lobbied members of the US Congress. It was reportedly based out of a property situated near the US Capitol.

Source https://watcher.guru/news/sbfs-brother-founded-an-organization-to-lobby-congress-members

its SBF mother, father brother and one other person acting as bail guarantor. so ofcourse the origins of their wealth guaranteeing his bail are to be questioned

if lets say SBF absconds and its found out the fine for absconding was paid for using SBF theft fund. then it makes a hypocrisy of the entire bail system.. by crime funding crime funding freedom from crime

Before Investing in crypto, all investors know that it's very Risky, and the price fluctuations is more then Fait, but still, users want to be rich or want to hide their money using Crypto tech.
We have already seen LUNA Crash before the FTX crash, and there was also news that small investors loss all their money and a few attempt suicide, but now again the FTX and in future may be SOL.

At this point, it feels like he won't go to jail. Feels like everyone is covering for him. I think he might manage to pay some users back before the trial so they will go easy on him. But I want to see this dude in jail cos if he will be out, he will make FTX 2.0 in no time.

when they say "$8billion"
i feel his is not 8bill of real asset like btc.
but instead like a co-mingled total of just 20k btc($460m @$23k/coin)
and 7.5billion of the fictitious value of FTT pump token

which was a 320million circulation token that got pumped to at one point $100/ftt
to make it appear as FTC was valued at $32bill
where if only 25% of tokens sold(combined) would have a faked value of ~$7.5bill at its ATH

however this is fake value after all. not the purchase price everyone paid for the token on the days they deposited.

thus this 'users lost X' amount will shrink when calculating how much they actually deposited. rather than how much users think they are owed based on an ATH temporary event

i do not think the court would even take a market price date of oct31st as a valid 'last open value' of the tokens(under $2b)
i feel the number would be far less

however still showing as over $500m in total of all asset types and losses to give SBF a high prison time rating number

unless SBF can repay down that amount to a way way way lower number (paying off most of the debt) to save himself from decades in prison

Sam Bankman-Fried would go to jail because many of his accomplices are willing to testify against him in court. And I am sure that they have various documents or facts that can serve as concrete evidence. But his incarceration won't be long because he might not serve the entire prison term. It is possible he might be released on parole or might just get a presidential pardon.

I agree that it is feeling more and more like he won't be going to jail.  Now his cohorts aren't cooperating with the investigation and SBF is being accused of communicating with them via encrypted messages, likely influencing their decision.  While this is probably another offense that should land him in jail, he made the right friends and bought his freedom while times were still going well, so I wouldn't be surprised if his "jail" ends up being a plush condo on a beach somewhere.  I had hope that Caroline was going to spill the beans and throw SBF under the bus for her own freedom, but now it seems like he's convinced her they can escape this if they work together, which is what appears to now be happening. 

Someone who steals 8$ billion dollars doesn't go to jail. That is enough wealth to bribe a lot of people in key positions and to acquire a lot of influence on the case. What could make the difference, like in every judicial cases, was a close and real time coverage from the media, 24/7 on news, but since it's not happening, most people don't even know about this theft, therefore popular indignation and demand for the arrest of criminals is low in society.

its not funny.. but noticeable how we all see it on the news
black unemployed guy does fraud of $100.. ends up arrested within minutes of claim.. and then dead-by-cop less than 10 minutes after being handcuffed, just metres and minutes from the scene of the fraud - g.floyd

white guy does fraud, manages to spend weeks in his resort mansion. and then carefully arrested, allowed time to even change into a suit before being shuttled away, spends a bit of time in a jail then given a free ticket to another country, allowed to take drugs in court bathroom and then allowed on bail to live with parents without a bruise or bail payment required, even after defrauding hundreds of milions-billions

(im white but i see the preferential/un-preferential  treatment of certain people)

I cannot stop myself from speculating if the community thinks until now if Sam Bankrupt-Fried is a real exchange CEO and if FTX is a real start up in the cryptospace. I reckon if the community does not speculate anything strange about Sam's operation, we should be using our brains more hehe. It is becoming a possible storyline that Sam might have backers from politics and FTX might have been created for purpose of a global moneylaundering operation. Can anyone today, after witnessing what has occured, tell me that this is a very absurd idea?

Would make sense in a lot of respects that he and FTX were a money laundering operation on a huge scale for vested parties .
Unfortunately a lot of that occurs in the Crypto space not sure how one would curtail it

unfortunately i think in the end it will slowly and quietly be forgotten about,with every now and then news about the case but never a concrete sentence,meanwhile we have people like ross ulbricht facing life in prison,it just doesn't make any sense.

You're seeing class treatment of people with money and connections.. a black guy with money and connections would have been treated in a similar fashion. If Will Smith or dare I say Bill Cosby did the same thing as SBF, he'd be treated the same. Stop making everything about race. *smh*  Ross is in jail for how long?  Must be because he's black.. oh wait, he's not.. nope, they were able to get his funds and didn't need him, and he had no real connections with powerful people, the color of his skin didn't matter. ::)

As for SBF, more disappointment in the justice system.. we're heading towards this:
.. aaand he's gone. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CJv42P6pOg&t=93s)

if you wash away the media narrative sponsored by fox news types.. you can learn more

if you think its just a money laundering effort for the bidens. you are watching too much fox news/trump social drama claims

I really don't thinking putting him in jail will or might restore the people's confidence in Bitcoin.
Those who believe in Bitcoin will also come to agree with me that Bitcoin has faced severe down times even worst than this but it will definitely bounce back and that's definitely certain for Bitcoin.
I'm sorry for all those who got their hard earned money taken in this situation but the I'm sure this will also serve as a lesson to every other users of private exchanges.

How can they admit to fraud and then stop communicating to the authorities or am I not understanding something? AFAIK they would be required by law to disclose every information they have on Sam Bankman-Fried or they would be facing jail time for conclusion of a criminal?

I wonder how much money this man offered these people to keep quiet. I do think they all end up in jail but it will probably be a long time because this will be fought in the courts for years.

A lesson??! People will never learn from this. They will just fall for whatever FTX scam comes next.

Think about it, they give someone a [double] life sentence for running a darknet drugs store, but they can't even imprison a guy who stole money from millions of clients, including corporations?

At this point, everyone should file a class action lawsuit against him (specifically). The exchange was too dumb to prohibit that in their terms of service.

If even Ruja Ignatova the mastermind of the onecoin scam was finally found (yes, this happened!) (https://coingape.com/onecoin-ceo-ruja-ignatova-inally-ound-in-this-country-ater-5-years/amp/) and taken to custody (??), what makes a random founder safe from that fate?

I have not seen anything that shows that Ruja has actually been seen or put into custody for that matter.  One of her properties have been seen/identified, but is she there?  Was she there recently?

It seems that Sam would have a more difficult time fleeing for 5 years, but you never know, if he can get that bracelet off, get into some kind of a private transportation and make it somewhere in which he might blend in or have some kind of change to his appearance.. .. At some point, we might start to see others arrested and brought upon charges connected with the whole fraudulent scheme.

It also depends on who the scammer stole money from. Sam Bankrupt-Fried's quick indictment and extradition was because he scammed the wrong people. Arthur Hayes is black, however, the punishment he received was only a slap on the wrist and he is presently allowed back to Bitmex.

Do Kwon and Su Zhu are Asian but scammed the right type of people. The normal cryptobros of the community and the ponzi scheme operators in the cryptospace. The government would not be quick to waste resources on them hehehe.

OK guys.. it has been many months since we had a debate on this topic. 6-7 months back, I made a prediction that Sam Bankman Fraud will not spend more than a week in prison. And my prediction came true. Currently he is on "house arrest" in Palo Alto, California. When we mention "house arrest" please remember that in case of Sam Bankman Fraud it means that he is staying at his home with all 7-star facilities doing whatever he want. I won't be surprised if he arranges gay prostitutes to visit him during this "house arrest". Steal 8 billion USD from hardworking people and take away their life savings, and all this guy gets is a couple of days behind bars. This is what we call as "liberal privilege". Compare his case to that of someone like Allen Stanford, who has been in prison since 2012, with no possibility of parole.

He is not in jail, because no charges were filed and the prosecutor did not determine the punishment yet. Trial is set on October 2, 2023. So right now Sam in enjoying his life and creating a defensive strategy. I am sure, that on October 2, nothing will be decided and there will either second, third or another hearing, or the trial will be postponed. Even if he gets in jail, he wont be in regular jail. In US there are many private jail, and he will find himself a "7-star facility with high walls».

Correct, Sam is not going to jail it seems, and the stupid Gensler is not even digging more into the FTX case, instead they target Coinbase and mainly Binance exchange, this is the part where I believe that Gensler and Sam with Kevin can be an accomplice in this crime, CZ also revealed that in 2019, Gensler offered to be appointed as Binance advisor and he was turned down.

The case of Sam and FTX might not come to light if Sam was not a spoilt brat, and if he keeps doing this for long it will have a very bad effect in the future, I also feel like politicians are behind Sam and the FTX money manipulations.

with the long days ahead, definitely, his lawyers know already how to get out of this situation. or at least not get a hard sentence from this failure.
with big money involved, i won't be surprised if he will make a deal to his favour. as he's awaiting trial from the comfort of his parents' home, we all know he's not just sitting and waiting, but for sure, he's also moving his funds without the authorities' knowledge.
hence, i don't think he will plead guilty in any of those criminal charges thrown to him.

Even though he classifies Bitcoin as a commodity, I'm starting to tire of him, and I'm pretty sure other Bitcoin maximalists feel the same way about him. He is just causing too much division in the crypto industry without changing anything, without even passing any regulations. This makes me believe that he is not serious about having the SEC regulate cryptocurrencies in any way, especially if Binance and Coinbase are more important to him than obvious rugpulls (and securities) $HEX and $PEPE.

If anyone plays again and someone else is going to jail instead of SBF being the ones who fall, it can be assumed that there is malicious intent on the part of law enforcement and the justice system, I think all eyes will be on him. Today the public and media play a critical role in holding individuals and institutions accountable, and any attempt to manipulate the legal process is likely to face significant backlash and further investigation.

Yes, anything can happen. However, if there is sufficient evidence to support the SBF conviction, it is more likely that he or she will face legal consequences than any other person this wrongfully targets would be consistent with any legal system that upholds the principle of "innocent until proven guilty"

Exactly, I was waiting for a court hearing or something, and CZ is still updating his twitter normal like he used to, CZ is flexing with his life like normal, as if nothing is going on, I doubt they found any incriminating stuff on him, if this is a tough case CZ and Brian Armstrong, the CEO of Coinbase would have been forced to face the judge right now, instead it's only Gensler and his cultish empire that are taking this so serious, Gensler never learned from the first humiliation that happened in the court where he was asked what makes Ethereum a security, I think sooner or later he will be sacked and he might possibly have ti face the the law, because right now some are saying that he is manipulating the market with the power he has been given, someone else will replace this man very soon.

Oh gawd.. are you trolling or what?  It's too early to figure out if your prediction came true or  not.. so it seems a bit ridiculous that you are asserting that you are correct before some of the actual important matters have had chances to play out.

Yes.. sure it is likely unfair that he is out on bail in order to prepare for trial.. and it is likely unfair that his parents or family members have not been charged yet.. but we will see.. we will see.. I agree with you in the sense that I don't necessarily expect justice to be served, but it is too soon to conclude that you were right about his not going to jail... and it may well happen that he ends up getting several years in jail.. He should get 20 or more.. but still too early to know if something like 20 or more will even end up playing out.



I think that he is on bail.. and yeah a kind of house arrest with a tracking monitor probably based on fear of his fleeing.. and these kinds of things are usually allowed (especially for rich twats who have highly paid attorneys). .so that the defendant can presumably prepare for trial that is currently scheduled for October (even though surely dates could end up changing along the way).


Yes... of course you can do whatever you want, as long as you are not doing illegal things related to the case.. and he cannot leave without permission.. probably the judge.. I think some aspects of his internet had already been restricted based on his earlier behaviors.. yeah, he is a little cunt that probably does not deserve to be outside of jail.. but there is still some presumption of innocence until proven guilty (especially for rich people).


I doubt that he is restricted from those kinds of things.. even though he might be restricted from contacting some of the prosecutor's witnesses.. except maybe to the extent that attorneys come to some kind of an agreement.


again the trial has not happened yet.. and yeah, it does seem that the crimes were fairly egregious and likely it was more than just SBF who needs to be prosecuted and put in jail. but they do need a trial before they can be put in jail.. except sometimes poor people are not able to get bail.. and then some times some rich people cannot get out if there is a high likelihood of their fleeing or that there might be some other reasons that they should not be allowed out while waiting for trial..


By liberal do you mean rich person privilege?

I did not know much of anything about Stanford prior to you mentioning him... .. but presumptively you are referring to this guy:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Stanford


You sound mixed up Outhue.  The case of FTX and Sam's criminal charges are being pursued by the DOJ.. so yes, they are more serious because they are criminal charges.

The charges against Binance and Coinbase, so far, are civil proceedings.. not criminal proceedings... even though it is possible (and there are rumors that may or may not be true in regards to possible criminal charges involving Binance/CZ)...   Not all charges are the same, even if you are wanting to muddy all the various aspects and proclaim that life is not fair..

yeah.. I do agree that there are a lot of unfairnesses, but your proclamations that Sam and FTX are not being held accountable.. remains quite premature, at least so far.. .Sure, the charges against Sam and FTX could get dropped, but dropping those charges does not seem to be the current direction...

Another thing that Gensler and various politicians are doing is taking advantage of the FTX disaster and trying to equate Binance and Coinbase in various kinds of ways in order to justify the various ways that they are playing hardball against Binance and Coinbase, but the mere fact that politicians are muddying the waters should not mean that any of us should be doing the same thing.


Does not mean that SBF's lawyers are going to be successful to keep Sam from serving time.



Maybe?  Maybe not.  You seem to be guessing...


You are likely correct about that... even if the evidence might not be direct, it seems that some reasonable inferences could be made that there could be some shenanigans continuing to go on in the background and that some kinds of behaviors are still able to allow Sam to do things (such as communicate secrets) in such a way that he would not be able to accomplish if he was in jail..


Yes.. He has a right not to plead guilty.. then if he continues to not plead guilty, then his case will go to trial, and the govt (prosecutors) have the burden to show that he is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.. and if they prosecutor succeeds, then Sam goes to jail.  He might be able to stay out of jail during an appeal period.. it is likely a bit early to determine how long it might take to try the matters, in the event that he does not plea guilty (which pleaing guilty might end up being the better way for Sam to get reduced jail time.. but you are right, Sam might not plea guilty).

Gensler' take on Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies is undoubtedly causing ripple. His label of Bitcoin as a commodity fits some descriptions, but the murkiness of regulatory guidelines still clouds the sector. Plus, the point that Gensler' attention is on big crypto exchanges like Binance and Coinbase, not potential rug pulls, raises eyebrows.

But lets be clear, CZ or Brian Armstrong's absence from the courtroom doesnt signify guiltlessness. Regulation is a winding road, with outcomes extending beyond courtrooms. Your forecast about Gensler' replacement seems stern, reflecting Bitcoin maximalists' growing discontent. Leaders like Gensler must aim for clear rules protecting investors, not fostering mistrust.

"Big Scam" Bankman-Fried can try his best at avoiding the court verdicts, but at the end of the day, he was caught red-handed by regulators duping investors and is going to spend jail time. He's not some no-name scammer on Instagram looking for small fish. The financial damage he caused is way too big for courts to just brush aside as an oopsie.

Well maybe he will be going to jail sooner then he was expecting to. He is now being accused of witness tampering. And US prosecutors have asked for a federal judge to put him in jail.

The judge did put a 'gag order' on SBF so he could not talk openly about the case with FTX. I think he will be going back to jail, he just does not listen to the rules.

https://www.reuters.com/legal/sam-bankman-fried-due-back-court-judge-weighs-bail-conditions-2023-07-26/

https://talkimg.com/images/2023/07/28/Q1R8f.jpeg
Yes he might be going to jail soner but tomorrow have to tell, what my Google gave me, is that SBF will be going to jail by October this year but I don't believe it and that's I said tomorrow will tell if SBF is going to jail or not, but he will, although he has been HOME CONFINEMENT ( house arrest) at his parents house in North Carolina close to University campus this source can explain better (https://www.npr.org/2023/07/26/1190364957/bankman-fried-crypto-ftx-jail-bail)
 

I believe that judges are even more reluctant to put white collar defendants in jail than they are blue collar or poor people in jail because the considerations in regards to whether they might have had prejudiced the defendant's ability to defend himself - especially when the case is more complicated.. so Sam has a right to defend himself, while at the same time, if Sam is breaking rules that are imposed on him then his right to be outside of the jail while trial is pending could end up getting circumscribed.. and I have my doubts that he will get put in jail prior to trial.. unless it is a short lesson or warning to him to make him stay in jail for a week or two in order to send him a warning regarding how serious his violation of rules has been.. He has probably been warned several times already...

...but still there do seem to be ways that he is not really being held to account.. so many of us question the appearances of fairness and is he really being treated fairly and is he going to end up getting the punishments that he deserves.. including some of the folks associated with these matters which would include a few of his family members that are likely complicit with aspects of the same crimes.

Yes boss, what you said is very clear to me and we I know that the judiciary system in that state is somehow corrupted so in that case anything can happen, if SBF will be jail, he will not be in prison for more than a month because his parents are also affleunce. I think the reason why SBF is been warned multiple times is because the government might even be scared of him or his family, or isn't it apparent?

I was attempting to distinguish between going to jail prior to trial versus going to jail after trial.  It seems that we have to think about those differently.  He is not supposed to go to jail prior to being convicted - unless he is a flight risk or he is otherwise breaking rules in regards to tampering with witnesses and things like that.   Whether he gets convicted and therefore has to go to jail after the trial is another question, and yeah there are some problems in regards to how connected his parents are, and there are problems that his parents likely committed some crimes in terms of their connection with Sam's business and also in connection to receiving proceeds from Sam's business.. so it does seem a bit surprising that those family members still are not being charged... and maybe it would become even more and more complicated to charge family members based on some of their connections to politicians who also might have some guilt/blood on their hands.

We cannot necessarily assume it is all corrupt, even though sometimes there are some questionable results that don't really seems to be serving justice.. so sometimes we have to make sure we are attempting to talk about which parts are corrupt rather than merely throwing out blanket statements that might not exactly be true.

you go to JAIL pre trial
you go to PRISON post trial

heres a image for you. you like them
https://wyofile.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/DID-YOU-KNOW_wyofile_jail_prison-01.png

In November 2022, FTX's founding chairman SBF announced that his own established popular centralized exchange was hacked and declared bankrupt. SBF steals huge amount of dollars from public. However, he has donated these stolen dollars to some sectors, a draft of which is given below.

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2023/07/30/Qgljm.jpeg

Source: https://twitter.com/TheBTCTherapist/status/1685728102612078592?t=TjArbmViujytoGsfnsP2RQ&s=19

This is because the justice system isn't that reliable as it's seem and this is not only happening in the US as same fate is aslo taking place in most cases of people who are clearly criminals but due to how influential the person maybe he might surely get away with the crime. And I think same is the case of S.B.F, he has and aslo his dad is very powerful and influential so him getting away with his crimes will kinda be an easy-pisy for him and couple with the fact that he is still on trial and haven't been convicted of any crime yet

Welp. Apparently not anymore lol, sad day for people out here that got screwed by FTX and this sick son of a bastard that took money away from people who didn't mean him any harm in the past. Apparently he got absolved off of his issues and charges (although correct me if I'm wrong cause twitter and the internet seems to paint it that way) cause he has been donating money to sectors and parties that are seated in the government, basically like bribing people but under legal pretenses lol.

I wouldn't be so chill however, especially since some people who got duped by scammers and big tiktok cryptocurrency influencers have taken matters into their own hands. Pleterskin was kidnapped and beaten within an inch of his life by 6 of the people he messed with. Another cryptocurrency influencer was found chopped up just a few days ago. SBF should be very careful because threats are becoming more and more real now.

Totally different situation but its true that they might be able to skip out government actions or getting imprisoned due to have that kind of money which he could really bribe on but not totally be able to remove the entire risks in speaking on getting abducted or would be chopped out just like into those people who had stepped out on peoples face and stealing out their money but we know that
these type of people wont really be that easily that you could really be able to see on public or would really be getting alone considering that he is really that presuming that his life is really at danger
when it comes to this matter on which means that he would really be that be careful on wherever he would go or making himself be seen by other people specially on the thing that he had done.
He might be able to skip out that kind of legal issues but in terms of safety then it would really be a different thing because people cant really just easily forget on what he had done.
This is the power of having a huge amount of money on which you could really make yourself that able to have those exemptions or whatever you could be able to do considering
that we are living on a corrupted world where everything could be almost be bribed.

The USA response to the "Satanic Banker Mafia" of SBF and FTX is the weakest it has ever been in the History of the USA Banking Scandals!

Of course he is likely to Walk as the USA has become a Communist Hell Hole carrying out Communist "Cultural Revolution" across the West! 

Trust me there is no such thing as any "Rights" BS things they will do as they please and keep suppressing as the Communist always does!

In fact I think all of life is such a sick game of psychological warfare, and I have had lots of miracles in my life too, which I am grateful for, but wow everything sucks with Communists in charge! 

https://twitter.com/mirandadevine/status/1685673614840840192 (https://twitter.com/mirandadevine/status/1685673614840840192)



"The DOJ is trying to arrest Devon Archer ahead of his bombshell testimony Monday about Joe Biden’s involvement in his son Hunter’s Ukraine business when he was VP. US attorney in the SDNY Damian Williams issued a menacing letter yesterday - Saturday - telling Judge Abrams to order Archer to go to jail immediately to serve a one year sentence for his fraud conviction."




Damian Williams same DOJ fucker doing the SBF Con-Job



And OMG Samuel Rothschild wrote the letter for Damian Williams


Remember SBF was using his pal Zelensky to launder money which all connects to Joe and Hunter Biden so this relates to SBF and that Con-Job by the DOJ Satanic Cabal!