When will Sam Bankman-Fried go to jail?

[franky1]

the bankers of 2007 had better lawyers for the 50+ years prior to the 2007/8 banker fraud.
their business plan used legal loopholes to fraud american population.
so that is why the bankers got away with it. its not fraud if its just legal loophole "sub prime mortgages"
with charters and "series 7 exams", they were licenced bankers and brokers to do alot more than an average joe could g4et away with

SBF on the other hand only had teachings from his mom, dad and gensler. and the ego to think he knew enough, and knew enough people to get away with it
thats the difference

when a "max sentence" is X..
anyone can say someone may not serve full X
because X is the max

consecutive sentences= max 115 years
concurrent sentences = ~25 years
plead guilty before october trial =reduced sentence

personally. i feel murder and rape should always be 100years + no matter what
when it comes to financial crimes, to be honest. should not be treated worse than rape or murder

however penalties like a fine or probation.. screw that he needs to do serious prison time, and i dont mean 3-5years

id be happy to see a 20-50 year term for a multi million dollar theft/fraud, affecting hundreds of thousands of lives

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[BenCodie]

id be happy to see a 20-50 year term for a multi million dollar theft/fraud, affecting hundreds of thousands of lives

Multi-billion*

There should be at minimum a guideline formula to calculate time sentenced for fraud, the fact that this is not default by now is a bit ridiculous.

$1 = 1 minute
$60 = 1 hour
$1,440 = 1 day
$14,400 = 10 days
$144,000 = 100 days
$1,400,000 = 1000 days (3.5 years)
$12,783,748 = 9131.249 days (25 years max sentence)
 
- Fraud with multiple perpetrators divides the total amount between then to determine their sentence
- Exceeding max sentence results in compounding or consideration.
- Second chance to give back as much as possible for reduced sentence, depending on what was returned.

By this logic, anyone who was aware of the SBF fraud and partook in it should be going away for a long time considering the monumental amount of fraud.

This is a guideline that took me 5 minutes to come up with. A day with justice professionals could do a much better job. It could be a lot better used for institutions where fraud is rampant, where real jail time is almost always eluded and generally there are dozens/hundreds of knowing perpetrators.

[harapan]

But why would a recognized criminal stay this long without being sentenced already, this is pure wickedness.

The rich are simply backed even when they are obviously wrong.
My wishes are not harsh but for him to serve as a scapegoat to others who thinks money laundering and internet fraud shouldn't be tackled roughly.

[Rikafip]

But why would a recognized criminal stay this long without being sentenced already, this is pure wickedness.

This long? FTX fiasco happened few months ago and he was just recently charged so its not like we are waiting for years something to happened. Or you think all this procedure, presumption of innocence etc should be forgotten and people instantly sentenced to life in jail/hand cut off for theft like in some backward country?

My wishes are not harsh but for him to serve as a scapegoat to others who thinks money laundering and internet fraud shouldn't be tackled roughly.

Bernie Madoff got 150 years for his pozni scheme, so its not like scams haven;t been dealt with in the past. Its just that SBF thought that he can get away with it and even if he gets harsh sentence, it won't stop someone else from doing something similar in the future.

[franky1]

id be happy to see a 20-50 year term for a multi million dollar theft/fraud, affecting hundreds of thousands of lives

Multi-billion*

yes and no... depends what spreadsheet you read as to holdings/value...... and amounts lost/found

for instance most debt is based on FTT tokens(valueless and speculative)

it had maybe 20k in bitcoin

all the media hype of "worth $32billion" "9billion missing"  "$3.x billion" "$1.x bilion"
these numbers are getting lower and lower by the month

There should be at minimum a guideline formula to calculate time sentenced for fraud, the fact that this is not default by now is a bit ridiculous.

there is.. and it even comes with a point scoring system too..
https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/guidelines-manual/2015/2B1.1.pdf
(read the "base levels" (points/score). find the add-ons for severity/amounts lost.. .. then substitute any take offs for first offense or plead guilty before trials (plea deals)

heres one example
https://www.ussc.gov/guidelines/2021-guidelines-manual/annotated-2021-chapter-5

Larceny, Embezzlement, and Other Forms of Theft; Offenses Involving Stolen
Property; Property Damage or Destruction; Fraud and Deceit; Forgery; Offenses
Involving Altered or Counterfeit Instruments Other than Counterfeit Bearer
Obligations of the United States
(a) Base Offense Level:
(1) 7, if (A) the defendant was convicted of an offense referenced to this
guideline; and (B) that offense of conviction has a statutory maximum term
of imprisonment of 20 years or more; or
(2) 6, otherwise

If the loss exceeded $6,500, increase the offense level as follows:

Loss (Apply the Greatest) Increase in Level
(A) $6,500 or less no increase
(B) More than $6,500 add 2
(C) More than $15,000 add 4
(D) More than $40,000 add 6
(E) More than $95,000 add 8
(F) More than $150,000 add 10
(G) More than $250,000 add 12
(H) More than $550,000 add 14
(I) More than $1,500,000 add 16
(J) More than $3,500,000 add 18
(K) More than $9,500,000 add 20
(L) More than $25,000,000 add 22
(M) More than $65,000,000 add 24
(N) More than $150,000,000 add 26
(O) More than $250,000,000 add 28
(P) More than $550,000,000 add 30.

so if guilty he scores 37 on just that 1 charge



210-262 months for first offense(no history) = 17.5-21.9 years

[Agbe]

But why would a recognized criminal stay this long without being sentenced already, this is pure wickedness.

This long? FTX fiasco happened few months ago and he was just recently charged so its not like we are waiting for years something to happened. Or you think all this procedure, presumption of innocence etc should be forgotten and people instantly sentenced to life in jail/hand cut off for theft like in some backward country?

My wishes are not harsh but for him to serve as a scapegoat to others who thinks money laundering and internet fraud shouldn't be tackled roughly.

Bernie Madoff got 150 years for his pozni scheme, so its not like scams haven;t been dealt with in the past. Its just that SBF thought that he can get away with it and even if he gets harsh sentence, it won't stop someone else from doing something similar in the future.

The way advance countries handle things or cases are different and far better than African countries. African leaders jail people without investigation. But advance countries investigate the cases and the advantages and disadvantages it the crime. Luna' s founder was jailed after some month later of the collapsed of stable coin. As for the FTX founder, I don't think he will be jailed.

[Rikafip]

Luna' s founder was jailed after some month later of the collapsed of stable coin.

South Korea issued an arrest warrant for Do Kwon last September but he is still on the run. Latest news is that he is currently hiding in Europe (Serbia) so no jail for him yet.

As for the FTX founder, I don't think he will be jailed.

I was pessimistic at first too, but after how buddies pleaded guilty and getting away with fines and no prison as long as they cooperate, I don't think that the will avoid some jail time alltogether. I don't expect him getting like 30 years in prison, but I can see him spending couple of years in a minimum security prison.

[franky1]

As for the FTX founder, I don't think he will be jailed.

I was pessimistic at first too, but after how buddies pleaded guilty and getting away with fines and no prison as long as they cooperate, I don't think that the will avoid some jail time alltogether. I don't expect him getting like 30 years in prison, but I can see him spending couple of years in a minimum security prison.

the sentancing guidelines dont work like that (see my post above)
i can see him averaging 20 years each charge and see a deal of doing them concurrently if more then one charge sticks. so min of 17.5

in short.. to get a sentence of just a couple years. the theft/fraud/ has to be of value of less than $150k

[Rikafip]

in short.. to get a sentence of just a couple years. the theft/fraud/ has to be of value of less than $150k

What if he eventually pleads guilty before trial starts, you don't think that he can get better deal than those 17.5 years? I for sure hope that you are right, but I would be very surprised if he gets anything remotely close to that sentence.

in short.. to get a sentence of just a couple years. the theft/fraud/ has to be of value of less than $150k

In my country rich people regularly get lower sentences than they should according to the law on the count of some bullshit reason and I would be surprised if its not like that in the United States too.

[franky1]

in short.. to get a sentence of just a couple years. the theft/fraud/ has to be of value of less than $150k

What if he eventually pleads guilty before trial starts, you don't think that he can get better deal than those 17.5 years? I for sure hope that you are right, but I would be very surprised if he gets anything remotely close to that sentence.

in short.. to get a sentence of just a couple years. the theft/fraud/ has to be of value of less than $150k

In my country rich people regularly get lower sentences than they should according to the law on the count of some bullshit reason and I would be surprised if its not like that in the United States too.

unless he can "buy down" the debts to lessen the score.
(find the money in the accounts.... compensate some/all victims)

and
get awarded some minus points by pleading guilty before trial..

and
maybe only be convicted of one count..

chances of doing less than 17.5 years are small

[bbc.reporter]

It appears the quickness and speed of how long the regulators act on a case also depends on who were scammed by the scammers. Sam Bankrupt-Fried has chosen the wrong people to scam hehehehe. According to some news articles, the investors that Sam scammed included Robert Kraft the owner of the New England Patriots, Tom Brady the quarterback of Tampa Bay Buccaneers, his super model wife Gisselle Bünchen, Joe Tsai the cofounder of Alibaba and other sports celebrities.

Do Kwon might have done it correctly because he only scammed his users and his fellow ponzi schemers hehe. It is speculated that he is in Singapore.

[franky1]

It appears the quickness and speed of how long the regulators act on a case also depends on who were scammed by the scammers. Sam Bankrupt-Fried has chosen the wrong people to scam hehehehe. According to some news articles, the investors that Sam scammed included Robert Kraft the owner of the New England Patriots, Tom Brady the quarterback of Tampa Bay Buccaneers, his super model wife Gisselle Bünchen, Joe Tsai the cofounder of Alibaba and other sports celebrities.

Do Kwon might have done it correctly because he only scammed his users and his fellow ponzi schemers hehe. It is speculated that he is in Singapore.

FTX was never "big" in regards to customer numbers (ftx 1.2m customers vs coinbase 60m vs binance 25m)
FTX was never "big" in regards to asset numbers (FTX 20k btc vs greyscale 640k vs binance 575k)

but yes FTX services big names, big corporate accounts. and so yes FTX got "big fame" and now big charges

most scammers know. to avoid lengthy court sentences. keep value low
many prefer to scam under $1k a user because its not financially worth taking someone to court for $1k if the court costs are more then $1k a user, even in a class action(the lawyers end up the only winners)

scam bank-man fraud. got too greedy and wanted to rub shoulders and backstab the same shoulder too much

[erep]

Do Kwon might have done it correctly because he only scammed his users and his fellow ponzi schemers hehe. It is speculated that he is in Singapore.

Various media have reported on Do kown hiding locations in Singapore and Serbia, maybe your explanation above is very logical because without the involvement of important people in the loss case, the case will be handled slowly and may not be prioritized. Even if the reason is due to the extradition process because South Korea does not have an extradition agreement with the Council of Europe, any efforts can be communicated with other countries to help the process of catching fraud perpetrators even if they are in the territory of other countries. This case is very different from FTX, SBF has been arrested even though he is in another country and of course the role of the victim from important people is very influential to emphasize that this case must be resolved immediately.

[JayJuanGee]

Do Kwon might have done it correctly because he only scammed his users and his fellow ponzi schemers hehe. It is speculated that he is in Singapore.

Various media have reported on Do kown hiding locations in Singapore and Serbia, maybe your explanation above is very logical because without the involvement of important people in the loss case, the case will be handled slowly and may not be prioritized. Even if the reason is due to the extradition process because South Korea does not have an extradition agreement with the Council of Europe, any efforts can be communicated with other countries to help the process of catching fraud perpetrators even if they are in the territory of other countries. This case is very different from FTX, SBF has been arrested even though he is in another country and of course the role of the victim from important people is very influential to emphasize that this case must be resolved immediately.

I hate to promote Governmental overreach, but Yes, maybe the USA needs to file criminal charges against Do Kwon too and seek his extradition.. I recall that a subpoena had been served upon him in September 2021 when he was at a conference in NY.. but I think that the SEC had not been pursuing that aggressively in recent times.... even though it seems that in June 2022 a US Federal judge had order that Do Kwon comply with the SEC subpoenas... even though probably the Korean government has more criminal issues regarding Do Kwon.. we still know that Do Kwon was getting support, investment and people buying his various tokens from all kinds of individuals and companies all over the world.

Terraform Labs and Do Kwon Ordered To Comply With SEC ...

[Oneandpure]

Various media have reported on Do kown hiding locations in Singapore and Serbia, maybe your explanation above is very logical because without the involvement of important people in the loss case, the case will be handled slowly and may not be prioritized. Even if the reason is due to the extradition process because South Korea does not have an extradition agreement with the Council of Europe, any efforts can be communicated with other countries to help the process of catching fraud perpetrators even if they are in the territory of other countries. This case is very different from FTX, SBF has been arrested even though he is in another country and of course the role of the victim from important people is very influential to emphasize that this case must be resolved immediately.

Relatively easy bureaucracy has made many former criminal cases ranging from fraud until to corruption cases feel quite comfortable living in Singapore. Seems Singapore give special thing for people facing criminal cases and run away much money, have possibility with Do Kwon save and use Singapore casino as place for saving his assets based on happening in my country when corrupt hold his money at Singapore Casino.

South Korea have build with serious bilateral relations between countries are detecting hidden place for Do Kwon between Singapore or Serbia, have to give punishment after stealing much investor money and make him poor without have anything in his pocket.

[erep]

I hate to promote Governmental overreach, but Yes, maybe the USA needs to file criminal charges against Do Kwon too and seek his extradition.. I recall that a subpoena had been served upon him in September 2021 when he was at a conference in NY.. but I think that the SEC had not been pursuing that aggressively in recent times.... even though it seems that in June 2022 a US Federal judge had order that Do Kwon comply with the SEC subpoenas

Do Kwon should not have been allowed to leave the US if he was already in trouble with the law because the judge had ruled that he had to comply with a subpoena about the case, but in reality he had fled and left the US to hide in another country. Various lawsuits have been pending without the defendants appearing in court and it is regrettable that they were unable to handle kwon while in the country. Latest news, One of the reports from Albright Capital regarding the case related to Terraform Labs and Do kwon has voluntarily dropped the lawsuit, I can't believe they decided to drop the case so quickly before getting the necessary factual response from the lawsuit.

Albright Capital drops lawsuit against Terraform Labs and Do Kwon

[JayJuanGee]

I hate to promote Governmental overreach, but Yes, maybe the USA needs to file criminal charges against Do Kwon too and seek his extradition.. I recall that a subpoena had been served upon him in September 2021 when he was at a conference in NY.. but I think that the SEC had not been pursuing that aggressively in recent times.... even though it seems that in June 2022 a US Federal judge had order that Do Kwon comply with the SEC subpoenas

Do Kwon should not have been allowed to leave the US if he was already in trouble with the law because the judge had ruled that he had to comply with a subpoena about the case, but in reality he had fled and left the US to hide in another country. Various lawsuits have been pending without the defendants appearing in court and it is regrettable that they were unable to handle kwon while in the country. Latest news, One of the reports from Albright Capital regarding the case related to Terraform Labs and Do kwon has voluntarily dropped the lawsuit, I can't believe they decided to drop the case so quickly before getting the necessary factual response from the lawsuit.

Albright Capital drops lawsuit against Terraform Labs and Do Kwon

For sure there is a higher level of culpability that would likely already need to be known to take someone into custody right away (upon serving a Subpoena or something like that), and then even if they had taken him into custody, in order to actually keep him in custody, they would have had to have had a decent amount of evidence to feel confident (and to show a judge) that he was guilty of a crime that involved jail time and that he was likely to be convicted and sentenced to such crime and jail time and also that he was a flight risk.. ..

You seem to be getting ahead of yourself if you are expecting that USA authorities were even close to having that level of criminal culpability or that much confidence in their case against Do Kwon in September 2021..

Yeah, they took one of the Bitmex founders into custody quite quickly, so sure it is possible that they might have had enough evidence to take Do Kwon into custody.. but I don't know.. it just seems to me that you are engaging in wishful thinking (and even Monday morning quarter-backing to see what happened later - in May 2022 and thereafter) to presume that the USA authorities had a sufficient amount of criminal evidence in September 2021 when the served that subpoena on him... .. and it does not even appear that the September 2021 subpoena was criminal in nature.. only a civil subpoena at that time... there's a difference between a civil and a criminal subpoena, you know?).

[bbc.reporter]

Do Kwon might have done it correctly because he only scammed his users and his fellow ponzi schemers hehe. It is speculated that he is in Singapore.

Various media have reported on Do kown hiding locations in Singapore and Serbia, maybe your explanation above is very logical because without the involvement of important people in the loss case, the case will be handled slowly and may not be prioritized. Even if the reason is due to the extradition process because South Korea does not have an extradition agreement with the Council of Europe, any efforts can be communicated with other countries to help the process of catching fraud perpetrators even if they are in the territory of other countries. This case is very different from FTX, SBF has been arrested even though he is in another country and of course the role of the victim from important people is very influential to emphasize that this case must be resolved immediately.

I hate to promote Governmental overreach, but Yes, maybe the USA needs to file criminal charges against Do Kwon too and seek his extradition..

There might be no need, I reckon. Do Kwon did not take money from anyone important. He only took the money of ordinary American people. Seeking for his extradition might begin in 5 years if the government remembers him or it might also never happen heheehe.

[franky1]

copying from other topic to save re-writing

Meanwhile, SBF does not waste time in vain and, being under house arrest, releases a saga where it accuses the CEO of Binance of organizing a purposeful failure, which consisted in conducting a public relations campaign against FTX, which, in his opinion, led to the collapse of Alameda, which subsequently spread to FTX and the rest.
In general, as always happens, malicious haters are to blame for everything, not their own miscalculations, irresponsibility, greed. and ambition.

Who is interested in the SBF version here: https://sambf.substack.com/p/ftx-pre-mortem-overview

scam bankman fraud is trying to set up a defence that his 'victims value' is under $1m as oppose to billions for US thus trying to assume he can only be charged in band H and not band P for the US crimes
..
yet we all know he done bad things with more then just his claims of under $1m
id say $550m+ is the ball park of his crimes and where his penalty points should be pointing at

     victim value               points
(H) More than $550,000 add 14
(I) More than $1,500,000 add 16
(J) More than $3,500,000 add 18
(K) More than $9,500,000 add 20
(L) More than $25,000,000 add 22
(M) More than $65,000,000 add 24
(N) More than $150,000,000 add 26
(O) More than $250,000,000 add 28
(P) More than $550,000,000 add 30.

i explained his charges and sentencing "points" better here(previous page of THIS topic)

but basically if he can be charged for US offences of mis-managing/stealing/defrauding less than $1.5m which his substack is trying to convince people of.. it changes a upto 25years per charge into a 46 month(under 4 year) per charge which he could also get if multiple charges convict be serves alongside each other instead of after each other

thus changing the medias announcement of 115 years down to 3year 10 months max

..
as for the other BS he says in the substack. he never had 100billion of real value assets..
that was his BS ftt over priced and other silly self-tokens he made being over priced but not requiring all to be sold to create fake "market valuations"

i can make 5trillion tokens. sell just 1 for $1 and boom i now have a token market value of $5 trillion
and thats as fake as SBF supposed $100billion business value

key details:
he didnt have $100b of VIABLE real assets..
he had~20k btc (min value $340m) meaning if he defraided/mismanaged/ stole then the charges are higher than $1m

id say his business was maybe $8bill value. and his frauds were worth more then $340m

[KnightElite]

He did a terrible thing and he deserve to be in jail, but there is a problem because SBF has money, power and he is very influential person where someones backing him up. The media is also behind this backing him up coz the news all over the internet spread the FTX scandal but the mainstrem media did not tackle the issues regarding about it. He is also a donor in political party that helps him about the case. The man has power but he really deserce to go in jail, let's see what will happen in the investigations.