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Title: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: dkbit98 on January 12, 2023, 08:45:58 PM I am making a list of hardware wallets that can be connected to communicate both with smartphones and computers.
I will list all the wallets and add how exactly can they be connected, but any help and corrections are appreciated.
Note for the "compatibility" column:
iPhone, Ipad and other Apple devices have lightning port so they can't be connected with hardware wallets using cables. Smartphones can be connected with hardware wallets using apps (native and third party), or with web apps using mobile browser (example Trezor). BitBox02 - USB-C directly or with USB-A adapter. Passport - Camera and QR codes; have their own mobile app. Keystone - Camera and QR codes; have their own mobile app. Ledger Nano X - Bluetooth mobile connection, USB-C cable connection for computers; have their own mobile app. Ledger Stax - Bluetooth mobile connection, USB-C cable connection for computers; have their own mobile app. Jade - Bluetooth, USB-C, Camera and QR codes. OneKey Classic - Bluetooth, USB-C OneKey Touch - Bluetooth, USB-C SecuX V20 - Bluetooth [mobile and computer connections], USB Type-C [computer connection] SecuX W20 - Bluetooth [mobile and computer connections], USB Type-C [computer connection] Safepal S1 - Camera and QR codes (closed source can't be confirmed). D'CENT - Bluetooth, using microUSB/USB-C adapter; have their own mobile app. Trezor - using microUSB/USB-C adapter, and Mycellium wallet. KeepKey - using microUSB/USB-C adapter, and Mycellium wallet. Ledger Nano S - using microUSB/USB-C adapter, and Mycellium wallet (firmware can't be updated). Coldcard mk4 - NFC (?), microSD card. CoolWallet S - MicroUSB ? CoolWallet Pro - MicroUSB ? WORK IN PROGRESS! Nothing fancy will be posted while I collect information, but this could be updated later. Thank you for posting your suggestions and new wallets with links. Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: NeuroticFish on January 12, 2023, 08:54:00 PM With the proper cable or an adapter into the original cable Ledger Nano S (and S Plus) can also easily get connected to smartphone. Tested/used by me with Android phones.
I've even posted sometime in the past the adapter I'm using (for microUSB, but there also exist such adapted for USB-C too) And before Tibu sees you :D you can also add SatoChip since it's NFC, but I don't really know more details on that one. For PC they sell a reader too. Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: jackg on January 12, 2023, 10:22:59 PM Trezor can work on a phone via micro USB -> USB-C with trezor suite (web) and mycelium. I'm not sure how good the eth support is but everything else looks like it works (I think I've only used bitcoin with it though).
Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: sheenshane on January 12, 2023, 10:54:36 PM Trezor can work on a phone via micro USB -> USB-C with trezor suite (web) and mycelium. In addition, the Keepkey hardware wallet can open through mycelium using a smartphone using micro USB.Here's a Youtube video tutorial (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9VGJRKTvHA) on that. It's an interesting list, please update and I'll open my eyes on this thread as I'm willing to know what are those hardware wallets, AFAIK, the only common hardware wallets that I've known that can be used in mobile phones like Trezor and Ledger. Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: Pmalek on January 13, 2023, 09:47:00 AM WORK IN PROGRESS! Two suggestions:1. After you have gathered all the necessary information, you might want to consider creating a table to make it look better. 2. I suggest making a new column and mentioning if the devices can be connected to Android and iPhone, or just one of the models. I think Ledger only works with Android phones and not with iPhones. There are surely similar examples with other manufacturers as well. Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: NeuroticFish on January 13, 2023, 10:22:58 AM 2. I suggest making a new column and mentioning if the devices can be connected to Android and iPhone, or just one of the models. I think Ledger only works with Android phones and not with iPhones. There are surely similar examples with other manufacturers as well. I think that even for PC there could be a need for a special column (because of the NFC wallets, for example). But overall, yes, after gathering all the info I am sure that OP can make a better looking table that can be read easier by all who are interested. Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: DaveF on January 13, 2023, 12:48:00 PM Couple of standard reminders, not every phone implements USB OTG properly so if you are not using BT / NFC or the camera you may have issues. Minor point but something to think about.
And, make sure you have good backups of you seed. We have been touting for years that phones are not secure and you should not have large amounts of funds on them. I know people, myself included, that have a vague idea of where the seed phrase for their phone wallet is, but it's no way as secure as their main one 'since it's only a little money' IF you get more confident in the security of your phone wallet since you are using a HW wallet, don't fall into that trap of adding more funds and not having the recovery handy..... -Dave Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: Pmalek on January 13, 2023, 01:21:29 PM And, make sure you have good backups of you seed. We have been touting for years that phones are not secure and you should not have large amounts of funds on them. The same rules apply whether you set up your hardware wallet on a phone or a PC. There should be multiple copies of the recovery phrase, but never in a digital form. If the hardware wallet has a secure element, the sensitive data won't leak onto the phone or be obtainable in case the phone is malware-infected in the same way seeds and PINs aren't leaking on computers. I know people, myself included, that have a vague idea of where the seed phrase for their phone wallet is, but it's no way as secure as their main one 'since it's only a little money' IF you get more confident in the security of your phone wallet since you are using a HW wallet, don't fall into that trap of adding more funds and not having the recovery handy..... In essence, you aren't keeping the coins on the phone just like they aren't on the computer. And the private keys stay safe on the hardware wallet's chip. Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: Charles-Tim on January 13, 2023, 01:44:04 PM And, make sure you have good backups of you seed. We have been touting for years that phones are not secure and you should not have large amounts of funds on them. I even thought on a hardware wallet, you can not know your seed phrase again after it has been generated during keys and addresses generation, only what you can do after that is a way you can be able to verify if the seed phrase you generated before is correct or not. The seed phrase is the coin, if lost, there is possibility that the coin is lost forever.There should be multiple copies of the recovery phrase, but never in a digital form. I think 2 or 3 is okay, having more backups may lead to offline less security. I guess just like 2 or 3 backups is what you meant as multiple. Although, this may depend on individual preference and how secure they can save seed phrase in particular locations. But I will recommend just having 2 or 3 and not more.If the hardware wallet has a secure element, the sensitive data won't leak onto the phone or be obtainable in case the phone is malware-infected in the same way seeds and PINs aren't leaking on computers. Like Trezor, if the hardware (Trezor) wallet is not having a secure element, nothing will leak online as well, unless a physical attack on the wallet which can reveal the seed phrase, but making the keys not to leak with the help of passphrase, provided if passphrase is used to generate the keys and addresses along with the seed phrase.Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: n0nce on January 13, 2023, 02:49:47 PM Just one idea: maybe add one extra column that contains one or more mobile wallets that are confirmed to work with the device.
Reason being that especially when new technologies start to get adopted in hardware wallets like NFC, many wallet apps don't yet have the functionality to make it work. I think for people who consider buying a hardware wallet specifically to use with their phone, it is essential to know whether it not only theoretically has the technologies required for that, but also whether software support is there and e.g. if they need to resort to a closed-source vs. an open-source app. Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: jackg on January 13, 2023, 05:49:15 PM In addition, the Keepkey hardware wallet can open through mycelium using a smartphone using micro USB. Here's a Youtube video tutorial (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9VGJRKTvHA) on that. It's an interesting list, please update and I'll open my eyes on this thread as I'm willing to know what are those hardware wallets, AFAIK, the only common hardware wallets that I've known that can be used in mobile phones like Trezor and Ledger. That seems pretty new with keep key, I've been using mycelium for a while and haven't seen it until now (but I don't know when I last checked). I'm not sure about ledger but trezor support was quite bad on mobile until recently (mycelium worked OK but it felt like it had problems the PC didn't - if you spent a small amount of funds from.a large input it'd ask you to confirm the change on the device instead but it doesn't anymore iirc). Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: dkbit98 on January 13, 2023, 08:40:01 PM With the proper cable or an adapter into the original cable Ledger Nano S (and S Plus) can also easily get connected to smartphone. Tested/used by me with Android phones. Maybe this partially works like you say but I won't add ledger nano S in the list because you can't install or update firmware using only smartphone, this is only possible with desktop computers.I've even posted sometime in the past the adapter I'm using (for microUSB, but there also exist such adapted for USB-C too) I am only adding hardware wallets that can work standalone only with smartphones. Trezor can work on a phone via micro USB -> USB-C with trezor suite (web) and mycelium. I'm not sure how good the eth support is but everything else looks like it works (I think I've only used bitcoin with it though). I will try with microUSB - USB-C adapter, but Trezor doesn't have mobile app yet, and I am not sure Trezor firmware can be updated using mobile devices.Can you please check and confirm this when you can? In addition, the Keepkey hardware wallet can open through mycelium using a smartphone using micro USB. I am not a fan of KeepKey wallet but I will consider adding it to my list, maybe in separate category with other devices that use adapters.Here's a Youtube video tutorial (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9VGJRKTvHA) on that. I think Keepkey is Trezor fork, so it works similar for Trezor One and Trezor T, but I don't know if other wallet works or only Mycellium. Just one idea: maybe add one extra column that contains one or more mobile wallets that are confirmed to work with the device. I will have to ask someone to make columns and table for me later, but only after I collect enough information.Reason being that especially when new technologies start to get adopted in hardware wallets like NFC, many wallet apps don't yet have the functionality to make it work. Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: Pmalek on January 14, 2023, 08:39:59 AM I will try with microUSB - USB-C adapter, but Trezor doesn't have mobile app yet, and I am not sure Trezor firmware can be updated using mobile devices. There isn't much information to be found about this, but apparently it should work on Android phones without using the desktop version. Read Can't update firmware on Android? (https://www.reddit.com/r/TREZOR/comments/omfepe/cant_update_firmware_on_android/) where the user doesn't have a desktop device and was stuck updating the firmware with his phone. In the end he confirmed that it worked. Can you please check and confirm this when you can? I will have to ask someone to make columns and table for me later, but only after I collect enough information. You can surely do this yourself, it isn't that hard. Just find a style you like from some other thread where there are tables. Quote it, copy the code, and make the changes you want to suit your needs and preferences. Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: n0nce on January 14, 2023, 02:50:40 PM I will have to ask someone to make columns and table for me later, but only after I collect enough information. Just as an example, I spaced out the code of one of icopress' nice tables and added comments for easy understanding:
Code: [center] I did remove all formatting to make it easier to understand, because tables support regular Bitcointalk formatting tags, including URLs, [abbr] tags, colors, you name it. Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: SFR10 on January 14, 2023, 08:18:25 PM @dkbit98
Found two more: - You can update their firmware through both the "web and mobile (https://secuxtech.com/howitworks/firmware-updates/)" routes.
Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: hZti on January 15, 2023, 06:16:18 PM The coldcard wallet can supposedly work with NFC and a smartphone without the need to ever use a computer. I have not tested it and didnt see somebody do it, but it may be one more for the list.
Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: jackg on January 15, 2023, 09:34:16 PM Trezor can work on a phone via micro USB -> USB-C with trezor suite (web) and mycelium. I'm not sure how good the eth support is but everything else looks like it works (I think I've only used bitcoin with it though). I will try with microUSB - USB-C adapter, but Trezor doesn't have mobile app yet, and I am not sure Trezor firmware can be updated using mobile devices.Can you please check and confirm this when you can? I checked and it does let me update it in Trezor suite web on android. They used to have an app called Trezor Manager and I'm not sure what happened to it - maybe they replaced it with an online version and consider it as secure. The downside I can find is it only seems to work with Chrome (which might not be a drawback for anyone else but it feels like a privacy compromise to me). Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: DireWolfM14 on January 16, 2023, 02:27:57 AM The coldcard wallet can supposedly work with NFC and a smartphone without the need to ever use a computer. I have not tested it and didnt see somebody do it, but it may be one more for the list. The ColdCard Mk4 can also be used with a USBC-OTG cable and any hardware compatible wallet app. It can also be used with any phone that has a microSD reader, if you choose to keep it's USB features disabled. Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: dkbit98 on January 16, 2023, 07:53:06 PM Found two more: I added both SecuX wallets in the list, and more wallets will be added in next few days after I finish researching.- You can update their firmware through both the "web and mobile (https://secuxtech.com/howitworks/firmware-updates/)" routes. Regarding table, I am still thinking how to add basic information and still make everything easy to understand, I think you helped me last time with hardware wallet secure element table ;) The downside I can find is it only seems to work with Chrome (which might not be a drawback for anyone else but it feels like a privacy compromise to me). For mobile devices Chrome is (sadly) much better and safer browser than Firefox, but there are few forks that improves it like Vanadium (in Graphene OS) and Bromite.The ColdCard Mk4 can also be used with a USBC-OTG cable and any hardware compatible wallet app. It can also be used with any phone that has a microSD reader, if you choose to keep it's USB features disabled. Many modern smartphones (sadly) don't support microSD cards anymore, and they are using extra slot for virtual SIM cards.I know we can still use some convertors to connect them with phones, but I personally don't like this approach. Ok guys I realized that I need to make two categories of hardware wallets, first that by default supports connection with smartphones, and second that is doing this with some convertor/cables. Some manufacturers claim their device doesn't support connection with mobile devices, however this can be done with workaround solutions, but we don't know if that can create some problems in future with compatibility. I am confused with some hardware wallet that have Bluetooth support, but this doesn't work with computers, only with smartphones, so I also need to be careful with this. microSD feature can only be considered as partially supporting smartphones, for obvious reasons. Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: Lillominato89 on January 17, 2023, 01:58:33 PM I am making a list of hardware wallets that can be connected to communicate both with smartphones and computers. I will list all the wallets and add how exactly can they be connected, but any help and corrections are appreciated. BitBox02 - USB-C directly or with USB-A adapter. Passport - Camera and QR codes. Keystone - Camera and QR codes. Ledger Nano X - Bluetooth mobile connection, USB-C cable connection for computers. Ledger Stax - Bluetooth mobile connection, USB-C cable connection for computers. Jade - Bluetooth, USB-C, Camera and QR codes. OneKey Classic - Bluetooth, USB-C OneKey Touch - Bluetooth, USB-C SecuX V20 - Bluetooth [mobile and computer connections], USB Type-C [computer connection] SecuX W20 - Bluetooth [mobile and computer connections], USB Type-C [computer connection] Trezor - using microUSB/USB-C adapter, and Mycellium wallet. KeepKey - using microUSB/USB-C adapter, and Mycellium wallet. Ledger Nano S - using microUSB/USB-C adapter, and Mycellium wallet (firmware can't be updated). WORK IN PROGRESS! Nothing fancy will be posted while I collect information, but this could be updated later. Thank you for posting your suggestions and new wallets with links. I haven't read the entire thread yet but I noticed that Safepal S1 is missing from your initial post, this hardware wallet is used via apps for iOS and Android and via a web browser extension for desktops, in both cases it uses QR codes to communicate, if you want you can add it to your list if you like Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: LoyceMobile on January 17, 2023, 02:01:43 PM Mycellium lacks basic functionality for hardware wallets: it can't verify the address (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5404419.0) on the hardware wallet itself, so malware (or bugs) can make you deposit to the wrong address.
Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: NeuroticFish on January 17, 2023, 02:26:04 PM Ledger Nano S - using microUSB/USB-C adapter, and Mycellium wallet (firmware can't be updated). Blockstream Green wallet is another wallet on Android that works with hardware wallets (or at least with Ledger and Trezor), may worth adding that to the list too, especially since it's supposed to be open source. Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: SFR10 on January 17, 2023, 07:24:13 PM Regarding table, I am still thinking how to add basic information and still make everything easy to understand, I think you helped me last time with hardware wallet secure element table ;) Oh lord, I knew this was coming :D
Code: [center][table] Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: n0nce on January 17, 2023, 07:47:29 PM - IMO, it'd be better to list them in a spreadsheet [Google Sheets], then simply take a screenshot and post it here... What do you think?[/li][/list] In that case, I'd rather recommend https://ethercalc.net/ or another non-Google alternative. :) The code is open-source (https://github.com/audreyt/ethercalc) and you can use it without an account.Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: dkbit98 on January 17, 2023, 10:05:30 PM Mycellium lacks basic functionality for hardware wallets: it can't verify the address (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5404419.0) on the hardware wallet itself, so malware (or bugs) can make you deposit to the wrong address. Hmmm this is especially important for hardware wallets that don't have support with native mobile applications.I will have to come up with some rating system, this whole thing is much more complicated than I initially imagined. Blockstream Green wallet is another wallet on Android that works with hardware wallets (or at least with Ledger and Trezor), may worth adding that to the list too, especially since it's supposed to be open source. Blockstream Green is not a bad mobile wallet, but I never tested it how it works with smartphone and hardware wallet, and there aren't many options to choose.I think Trezor is working on their own native app, and onekey wallet app plans to support other hardware wallets in future. Oh lord, I knew this was coming :D Sorry SFR, but I always mess up something when I try to act smart to make my own tables :DYour examples looks very good, but like I said there are two types of bluetooth connections and one of them is not supporting computers, I know it's stupid. Basically, we currently have only few options to connect hardware wallets with smartphones, NFC, Camera/QR codes, Bluetooth, Wireless, USB-C cable, microUSB/USB-C adapter. Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: SFR10 on January 18, 2023, 11:23:06 AM In that case, I'd rather recommend https://ethercalc.net/ or another non-Google alternative. :) The code is open-source (https://github.com/audreyt/ethercalc) and you can use it without an account. I'm surprised this is the first time I've read about it [thank you for sharing it] :)Sorry SFR, but I always mess up something when I try to act smart to make my own tables :D Don't be, it happens to me too :PYour examples looks very good, but like I said there are two types of bluetooth connections and one of them is not supporting computers, I know it's stupid. You're right [it's quite strange]... I'll be inserting comments in that column.Basically, we currently have only few options to connect hardware wallets with smartphones, NFC, Camera/QR codes, Bluetooth, Wireless, USB-C cable, microUSB/USB-C adapter. I've modified the table based on your categories [kindly double-check and let me know if you need any other changes]:Code: [center][table] Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: dkbit98 on January 18, 2023, 04:28:16 PM I've modified the table based on your categories [kindly double-check and let me know if you need any other changes]: Thank you SFR10, you are I was not sure about CoolWallet and some other hardware wallets, and there is no way for me to check how connection with smartphones works without actually owning this devices. One thing I was thinking is adding new section (I don't know how to name it) that explains how smartphone can be connected with hardware wallet, using native app, third party app or using web browser (like Trezor). Some wallets can use all three types so I was thinking about adding new star symbol only for this category (from one ⭐ to three ⭐⭐⭐) instead of current check or cross symbols. Or I could just name category app/native/web and use from one ✔ to three ✔✔✔ checkmarks. Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: SFR10 on January 20, 2023, 10:00:24 AM Thank you SFR10, you are You're very welcome [I'm glad I was able to save you some time] :)One thing I was thinking is adding new section (I don't know how to name it) that explains how smartphone can be connected with hardware wallet, using native app, third party app or using web browser (like Trezor). This part is a little bit tricky... I think it'd be better to label this specific category as "compatibility" and also use the star symbols with a brief explanation at the end of the table to show what each of these stars means:Some wallets can use all three types so I was thinking about adding new star symbol only for this category (from one ⭐ to three ⭐⭐⭐) instead of current check or cross symbols. Or I could just name category app/native/web and use from one ✔ to three ✔✔✔ checkmarks.
Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: dkbit98 on January 20, 2023, 10:37:38 PM This part is a little bit tricky... I think it'd be better to label this specific category as "compatibility" and also use the star symbols with a brief explanation at the end of the table to show what each of these stars means: Thank you for help again.I selected Compatibility version with star symbols, and I think it looks much better. Now I have do to some checking, correcting, editing and adding other less popular hardware wallet. Do you have any ideas how I can make shorter version of MicroUSB/USB-C adapter category? I also don't know how to say that ✘ or ✔ symbols doesn't always mean that this is something good or bad :/ Having less options is sometimes better, to reduce risk of attacks. Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: NeuroticFish on January 23, 2023, 11:02:53 AM I also don't know how to say that ✘ or ✔ symbols doesn't always mean that this is something good or bad :/ Having less options is sometimes better, to reduce risk of attacks. Maybe then add some sort of points as some sort of conclusion; the more the better. Of course, this may become somewhat biased. Also price range can be a factor, since people tend to go for good (or good enough) and cheap (where possible). Since the table starts to be kinda wide, maybe somehow the camera/qr and microUSB/USBC columns can be shortened ie. maybe shorter or two-column headers (just as advises, making it also this nice may not be easy). Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: SFR10 on January 23, 2023, 12:03:43 PM Thank you for help again. You're very welcome... Unfortunately, I can't think of a single word to replace the above terms, but perhaps we could remove the "adapter" part [it would still be user-friendly].~Snipped~ Do you have any ideas how I can make shorter version of MicroUSB/USB-C adapter category? - If you're looking for a way to reduce the width of the table, I think we can also remove the "wireless" column.
Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: Tibu on January 25, 2023, 05:19:07 PM I am making a list of hardware wallets that can be connected to communicate both with smartphones and computers. I will list all the wallets and add how exactly can they be connected, but any help and corrections are appreciated.
Note for the "compatibility" column:
Smartphones can be connected with hardware wallets using apps (native and third party), or with web apps using mobile browser (example Trezor). BitBox02 - USB-C directly or with USB-A adapter. Passport - Camera and QR codes; have their own mobile app. Keystone - Camera and QR codes; have their own mobile app. Ledger Nano X - Bluetooth mobile connection, USB-C cable connection for computers; have their own mobile app. Ledger Stax - Bluetooth mobile connection, USB-C cable connection for computers; have their own mobile app. Jade - Bluetooth, USB-C, Camera and QR codes. OneKey Classic - Bluetooth, USB-C OneKey Touch - Bluetooth, USB-C SecuX V20 - Bluetooth [mobile and computer connections], USB Type-C [computer connection] SecuX W20 - Bluetooth [mobile and computer connections], USB Type-C [computer connection] Safepal S1 - Camera and QR codes (closed source can't be confirmed). D'CENT - Bluetooth, using microUSB/USB-C adapter; have their own mobile app. Trezor - using microUSB/USB-C adapter, and Mycellium wallet. KeepKey - using microUSB/USB-C adapter, and Mycellium wallet. Ledger Nano S - using microUSB/USB-C adapter, and Mycellium wallet (firmware can't be updated). Coldcard mk4 - NFC (?), microSD card. CoolWallet S - MicroUSB ? CoolWallet Pro - MicroUSB ? WORK IN PROGRESS! Nothing fancy will be posted while I collect information, but this could be updated later. Thank you for posting your suggestions and new wallets with links. Hey, How about add Satochip and Satodime ? Well, Satodime is not a hardware wallet because you can't sign using the device. It's more like an Opendime on steroid. Like a bearer cold storage solution. But Satochip is a hardware wallet and is NFC enable. Today you can't use it with your smartphone cuz we dont have develop the mobile app part - yet. But it will come later this year ! :) Hit me up if you need any other information in case you wish to add these two lil' open-source - super - products ;D Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: dkbit98 on January 25, 2023, 10:28:23 PM You're very welcome... Unfortunately, I can't think of a single word to replace the above terms, but perhaps we could remove the "adapter" part [it would still be user-friendly]. I removed some words to make everything less wide, and I think people will understand what MicroUSB/USB-C means, it can be both adapter and OTG cable.- If you're looking for a way to reduce the width of the table, I think we can also remove the "wireless" column. How about add Satochip and Satodime ? Oh I knew this was coming, I think someone predicted you would ask me about this :DWell, Satodime is not a hardware wallet because you can't sign using the device. It's more like an Opendime on steroid. Like a bearer cold storage solution. But Satochip is a hardware wallet and is NFC enable. Today you can't use it with your smartphone cuz we dont have develop the mobile app part - yet. But it will come later this year ! Sure I can add Satochip if it can be connected with smartphone, otherwise you will have to wait until mobile app is released. You can post more information below if there is some workaround for mobile connection, but I won't add Satodime and similar devices in this table. Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: NotATether on January 26, 2023, 07:50:25 AM What kind of software wallet would a hardware wallet connect to when paired with a mobile device? I am struggling to come up with apps, as there are only say half-a-dozen vetted and open-source mobile wallets on iOS/Android in total and the rest cannot really be trusted.
Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: dkbit98 on January 26, 2023, 06:34:35 PM What kind of software wallet would a hardware wallet connect to when paired with a mobile device? I am struggling to come up with apps, as there are only say half-a-dozen vetted and open-source mobile wallets on iOS/Android in total and the rest cannot really be trusted. Most hardware wallet have their own apps, Passport have Envoy app, Bitbox wallet have Bitbox app, Ledger have their own ledger app, Jade is using Green wallet, OneKey is usine OneKey app, Keystone have Keystone Companion App, etc.Trezor is currently connected with their web app, but new Trezor mobile app will be released soon. Some software mobile wallets work with multiple hardware wallets, for example Blue Wallet, Nunchuk, Simple Bitcoin Wallet, Green wallet, etc. Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: Lillominato89 on January 28, 2023, 09:16:05 AM speaking in the old thread that I had opened for safepal, from the feedback obtained from various users they tell me that the new version of the S1 comes with the USB typeC port which in your table says that it is not present, it was just to inform you and if you want to update the your table, I also take the opportunity to congratulate you on this thread that you have opened which I consider very useful, especially for those who are approaching hardware wallets for the first time Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: Pmalek on January 28, 2023, 09:47:13 AM @Lillominato89
I think the Safepal S1 comes with a Type C USB cable but it's only used for charging and doesn't have data pins. https://store.safepal.com/safepal_store_view/safepal-s1-hardware-wallet.html The device is supposed to be airgapped so it doesn't connect through USB to transfer data. BTW guys, what's with the quoting of the OP? It looks ridiculous quoting the first post and isn't necessary. First Tibu does it and now Lillominato89 as well. Just post what you want to say without irrelevant quotes. @dkbit98 you can report this to the mods and ask them to remove the quote of the OP if it irritates you. It works, and I did it the other day in one of my threads that I forgot to self-moderate. Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: Lillominato89 on January 28, 2023, 10:10:32 AM yes USB type c is used to charge the device but it is also used to update the firmware of the device for this I pointed it out to the OP, however I am modifying my post, it was not my intention to annoy but only to show where " was error" I apologize again and remove the quote
Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: dkbit98 on January 31, 2023, 10:06:59 PM I just realized that my table with hardware wallets that work Smartphones can not be fully applied to iOS apple devices that all have lightning ports.
That means that you can't connect wallets like Ledger Nano S, KeepKey, Trezor One, D'CENT, SecuX, CoolWallet, and other wallets with your iPhone or iPad. Apple does not allow USB OTG, that is available only on Android devices, and ledgr nano x will work with iPhone only via BLE. Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: taufik123 on February 04, 2023, 08:53:39 AM I just realized that my table with hardware wallets that work Smartphones can not be fully applied to iOS apple devices that all have lightning ports. Apple does not allow USB OTG ? That means that you can't connect wallets like Ledger Nano S, KeepKey, Trezor One, D'CENT, SecuX, CoolWallet, and other wallets with your iPhone or iPad. Apple does not allow USB OTG, that is available only on Android devices, and ledger nano x will work with iPhone only via BLE. because I read and watched several videos that use USB-OTG are supported to transfer files from flash drives and connect hardware wallets, maybe you can use a USB Micro / Type-C to Lightning Port Converter Adapter. https://latestmobilefaq.com/apple-iphone-14-pro-faqs-nfc-8k-camera-ois-usb-otg-5g/ https://i.postimg.cc/tJ7m68Hx/lightningtoc.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/SR51fVyt/lightningtomciro.jpg iPhone 14 Pro Max Support USB OTG https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_VNN2BJ8ezA I am an android user and currently using Safepal Wallet. Safepal has its own application and some other updates such as the use of an Extension on the Browser which allows the safepal Wallet to sync with the Extension Browser using a QR Code. https://i.postimg.cc/HnbRwTRG/safepal-1.png Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: dkbit98 on February 04, 2023, 09:25:24 PM Apple does not allow USB OTG ? That is correct, ledger officially said that their hardware wallet is impossible to work with any iphone devices using cable connection, until Apple adds support for usbc.because I read and watched several videos that use USB-OTG are supported to transfer files from flash drives and connect hardware wallets, maybe you can use a USB Micro / Type-C to Lightning Port Converter Adapter. iPhone users cannot connect the Ledger devices to their phone due to restrictions of the iPhone Lightning port, that was made by apple design on purpose. You can use adapters but they simply won't work. Quote Due to technical limitations, this is currently not possible for iOS users. https://www.ledger.com/ledger-goes-mobile-ledger-live-app-now-available-for-ios-and-android-smartphonesI am an android user and currently using Safepal Wallet. Safepal has its own application and some other updates such as the use of an Extension on the Browser which allows the safepal Wallet to sync with the Extension Browser using a QR Code. I know about Safepal wallet and it is already added to the list of wallets, but I don't like it at all.They have everything closed sourced including all stuff connected with QR codes, not to mention how they plagiarized source code, etc. Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: taufik123 on February 06, 2023, 12:19:29 AM -snip- The iPhone still maintains the design with a Lightning port even though many are currently using USB type C. iPhone users cannot connect the Ledger devices to their phone due to restrictions of the iPhone Lightning port, that was made by apple design on purpose. You can use adapters but they simply won't work. Quote Due to technical limitations, this is currently not possible for iOS users. https://www.ledger.com/ledger-goes-mobile-ledger-live-app-now-available-for-ios-and-android-smartphonesMaybe it's different from Android because the iPhone wants its characteristics to remain and not be changed like Android. Lightning Port technology and USB Type-C are broadly the same. So, Hardware wallets that also need to integrate their products to match iPhone devices or partnering with iPhone might be a good choice. But for now, the use of a Bluetooth connection is another alternative for iPhone users. But will the use of Bluetooth be a risk that could become a security hole because currently hacking using the "Flipper Zero" device is quite worrying? I know about Safepal wallet and it is already added to the list of wallets, but I don't like it at all. Safepal has all closed sources and this is not liked by many users who like open source. They have everything closed sourced including all stuff connected with QR codes, not to mention how they plagiarized source code, etc. I also experienced a number of problems when using safepal, more on using a battery which was quite wasteful and updating the firmware which only focused on adding networks. https://i.postimg.cc/tC7v7Q0D/IMG-20230123-005604.jpg The last time I used Safepal with an almost full battery indicator, I turned it off or shutdown the safepal wallet. After 16 days I left it and I turned it on again, the battery was drastically reduced or even almost used up, even though for 16 days I didn't turn it on at all. Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: n0nce on February 06, 2023, 12:49:39 AM Apple does not allow USB OTG ? That is correct, ledger officially said that their hardware wallet is impossible to work with any iphone devices using cable connection, until Apple adds support for usbc.because I read and watched several videos that use USB-OTG are supported to transfer files from flash drives and connect hardware wallets, maybe you can use a USB Micro / Type-C to Lightning Port Converter Adapter. iPhone users cannot connect the Ledger devices to their phone due to restrictions of the iPhone Lightning port, that was made by apple design on purpose. You can use adapters but they simply won't work. For instance: (1) application copies PSBT to 'USB drive' / 'SD card', (2) Ledger main firmware recognizes it, takes it as input, does the signature / showing decoded address on screen, (3) signed PSBT is copied back to the 'fake SD card', while the application keeps scanning it for changed files. (4) Lastly, the signed PSBT is recognized, copied to the phone's RAM and sent to the network. Quote Due to technical limitations, this is currently not possible for iOS users. https://www.ledger.com/ledger-goes-mobile-ledger-live-app-now-available-for-ios-and-android-smartphonesBut for now, the use of a Bluetooth connection is another alternative for iPhone users. I already explained in the Flipper Zero / NFC (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5432212.0) thread that it is easy to overestimate its capabilities. It is a nice package with different wireless technologies in it, but nothing groundbreaking in terms of allowing something that was impossible before. Neither does it make existing attacks much cheaper; in some cases (e.g. if you don't use all of its features), the existing solutions are actually cheaper.But will the use of Bluetooth be a risk that could become a security hole because currently hacking using the "Flipper Zero" device is quite worrying? To effectively sniff Bluetooth communication, you need to have an extremely wide frequency band SDR or USRP of at least 80MHz due to the frequency hopping (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth#Implementation) between roughly 2.4 and 2.48GHz. It is not specifically a security feature, but it makes attacks hard to execute in practice. The popular ~$350 HackRF One (https://greatscottgadgets.com/hackrf/one/) SDR reaches at most 20MHz (can be lower depending on sampling frequency and such). You will need a USRP around $10k to capture the whole 80MHz Bluetooth band like this: https://www.ettus.com/all-products/x300-kit/ So, I am 99% sure you can't do this with a cheap Flipper Zero.. ;D Back to topic: on iOS, I do think USB transfer should work by emulating mass storage using the microcontroller, of course Bluetooth and NFC work, and QR codes would be the best option. Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: dkbit98 on February 06, 2023, 08:47:32 PM Sure about that? I mean on Passport with microSD adapter it is supposed to work. But maybe the iPhone only supports mass storage media through Lightning. On the other hand, a solution would be for the Ledger to show itself as a 'fake' mass storage device through which PSBTs are automatically exchanged. Yes I am 100% sure because I confirmed it with official Ledger support team, but you can always ask them yourself ;)Only ledger device that currently works with iPhones in ledger nano x using bluetooth ble connection. It's different story with SD cards and I am not sure about that. You probably can't plug in an arbitrary USB device, so some custom / hacky solution like I described would be necessary. But I do think it should work. Ok, go ahead and try doing that.If you manage to do it maybe ledger will send you some nice bounty reward for doing something impossible they can't do for years. Ask someone to donate you one of ledgers devices and hack it... can't wait to see results of your new project :D Title: Re: Hardware Wallets that work with Smartphones? Post by: n0nce on February 09, 2023, 07:48:08 PM Sure about that? I mean on Passport with microSD adapter it is supposed to work. But maybe the iPhone only supports mass storage media through Lightning. On the other hand, a solution would be for the Ledger to show itself as a 'fake' mass storage device through which PSBTs are automatically exchanged. Yes I am 100% sure because I confirmed it with official Ledger support team, but you can always ask them yourself ;)Apparently, my idea is already used by Coldcard: Quote from: https://coldcard.com/docs/coldcard-q1 USB Virtual Disk Mode: emulates a 4MB disk when connected to macOS, Windows, iPhone, etc. So, after plugging the Coldcard wallet into your iPhone through Lightning (USB), it shows up as a mass storage disk. Not sure whether you manually copy a PSBT from a wallet app into that disk & the hardware wallet replaces it with the signed PSBT or whether there is an app that does it automatically, but both solutions should work. Only ledger device that currently works with iPhones in ledger nano x using bluetooth ble connection. microSD cards work fine with both Android and iOS; that's how especially many ColdCard users use their wallet, after all.It's different story with SD cards and I am not sure about that. You probably can't plug in an arbitrary USB device, so some custom / hacky solution like I described would be necessary. But I do think it should work. Ok, go ahead and try doing that.If you manage to do it maybe ledger will send you some nice bounty reward for doing something impossible they can't do for years. Ask someone to donate you one of ledgers devices and hack it... can't wait to see results of your new project :D Quote from: https://coldcard.com/docs/coldcard-mk4 USB Virtual Disk Mode Another data transfer option is Virtual Disk Mode: connect the Mk4 to a computer or mobile phone and it sees the Mk4 as a 4 MB USB stick. Using your COLDCARD Mk4 with web browsers and other PSBT sources is effortless because you can save directly to your Mk4. |
