Bitcoin Forum

After all, we know how valuable Bitcoin is, so we need to protect and possibly even increase our holdings but when doing so, many traps should be avoided.
One of those traps is to fall for the misconception to increase Bitcoin profits from trading reliably.


Trade vs. HODL

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2023/07/06/Zwehz.png

Bitcoin's fundamentals make it very suited to HODL because Bitcoin’s supply is limited to 21M units itself. By HODLing, Bitcoin should increase likely in value long-term and HODLing is our safest way to make a profit. Low risk – likely to succeed.
But we need to be patient and favor safer long-term gains instead of quick but more insecure profits.


Technical analysis is risky

Some people have claimed, that trading by technical analysis is a reliable way of making money – it’s not true because it's very risky, especially for short terms (daytrading). If technical analysis would be predictable, it would be easy to take a credit, give it to a "professional" trader and he would make a profit.
Be careful and don’t fall for such offers, it’s a scam!
Because if technical analysis would be a reliable way to generate profits, everyone would be a millionaire. A coder would have coded these "technical analysis patterns" and trade according to them.
Such a program does not exist because it doesn’t work. Technical analysis is not predictable and doesn’t generate reliable returns.
Like xkcd explained it: technical analysis is more like a pseudo science:

https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/technical_analysis.png
https://xkcd.com/2101/


HODL instead!

When we are HODLing, we are taking advantage from Bitcoin’s scarcity. Bitcoin is limited to 21 M BTC. And every 210,000 blocks, block rewards (for miners) will be halved, decreasing newly issued units of Bitcoin aproximately every 4 years.
By HODLing, we are simply taking advantage from Bitcoin's scarcity because Bitcoin is a good asset for saving. It might be volatile in terms of Bitcoin price now but as more people will hold Bitcoin, we could see Bitcoin's price getting more stable – increasing demand for Bitcoin as a store of value even more.

It could take some years until we see some decent profits as Bitcoin's price has been moving in cycles of around 4 years but so far HODLing has proven to be reliable (and will also make Bitcoin less volatile). ;)

Tl; dr:
Better HODL, don't trade!  :)

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Translations:

Language	translated by	Title
___________________________	_________________________	_______________________________________________________________________
Arabic	Nalain420	التجارة مقابل HODL - تجنب الفخاخ (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5473198.0)
Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian)	Taufik123	Trading Vs HODL - Menghindari Jebakan (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5472840.0)
Bengali	Z_MBFM	ট্রেড Vs হোল্ড এর ফাঁদ এড়িয়ে চলুন (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=631891.msg63007012#msg63007012)
Deutsch (German)	1miau	Warum Trading so riskant ist (und man besser HODLn sollte) (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5459945.0)
Français (French)	iwantmyhomepaidwithbtc2	Trade vs. HODL - Évitez les pièges (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5472841.0)
Nigeria (Naija)	Chilwell	Trade vs. HODL - avoid traps (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5472826.0)
Română (Romanian)	GazetaBitcoin	Tranzacționare vs. HODL – evitați capcanele (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5474028.0)
Türkçe (Turkish)	mindrust	Al-sat vs. HODL - tuzaklara kanmayın (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5472611.0)
Pakistan (Urdu)	Compromise me	تجارت بمقابلہ HODL - پھندوں سے بچیں۔ (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=232519.msg63121028#msg63121028)

Reserving new translations is currently not available.

I have tried bitcoin trading and failed, I learned technical analysis but again failed. Bitcoin just doesn't follow the technical analysis terms like the forex or it is me who is failed to give my 100% effort on learning and implementing those into bitcoin trading.

But after trying so many years, probably a good 4 years trying to trade bitcoin successfully (make profit day trading), I gave up 2 years ago. Now I can live my life peacefully and avoid day trading.

Hodling is a more consistent means of benefiting from bitcoin and does not require any sort of technical skill to utilize, all you need to know is how to properly set up a wallet and back it up, making it accessible to even newbies to bitcoin.

But checking the info-graphics, I do not consider hodling to be a linear path to profits, there are pitfalls and market volatility which makes it difficult to hold on to your coins. There is also the emotional development one has to go through to hodl through different market situations.

Should this apply to everyone or those who do not profit from it? No trading strategy guarantees profits, but there would be people who get net profit from trading.

- Jay -

It's because "technical analysis" doesn't work. Or why are there so many people trying to sell their "trading courses based on TA"?  :D
They could just trade themself and make big profits as it's always advertised by them. But they don't do this. Wonder why?  :P
Because it's not a reliable way to make a profit.  ;)

Maybe, we could analyze economic events and try to predict the market (often by insider knowledge). That's hard as well and also very risky but simply by drawing some lines into the BTC chart, and hoping that we are right, won't get us far. Or it wuld be very risky and only based on luck if we get far.


You are right, the info-graphic was intended as a Meme.  :D

Holy crap! This thread is spot on from what I experienced when I attempted day trading back then. I don't even know what most of those terminologies meant in the "trading" image.
I took some time to learn day trading through Youtube (I believe it was Cryptojack channel that taught me not sure if the channel is still active though), since I was not fan of just reading books and not being able to see the demonstration of how signals are used. Binance was the first exchange I tried since it's the most mentioned one at that time.

I only knew some instruments like Bollinger Bands and RSI and I thought that just by simply following the tutorial would somehow give me a satisfying results/profits, but nah. It all ended up in a loss and just by learning and watching throughout the whole tutorial I was already exhausted considering I also have my 9-5 and I was only trading in hopes of having some side hustle. I just went on and go full hodling and call it there. Best decision of my life.

There might be some people really earning a lot from trading, but I won't go through those hoops of mental exhaustion ever again. Trading is not meant everybody.

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Love the tl;dr by the way, sums up what should I had done instead. I could have invested it more in learning programming instead. :)

I tend to agree with this and I think you nailed the right point.

I tried trading once when I had free time when I don't have a small business outside but now, I can't focus too much on crypto just like trading which is time-consuming, or else, it's a wasting time.  Technical analysis won't work, it might I believe in fundamental analysis that's based on news than this technical analysis.  It's always the price is unpredictable.

I learned to HODL in the long-term and aim for profit than trading.
But, if you want to gamble your money and have a short-term of waiting profit, trading is good for you.  It's a high risk if you're lucky enough, there will be a quick profit too.

Wow, glad to hear you got it sorted!  :)

I totally agree here. The mental exhaustion part is a very important point. It's part of the game for trading and can also result in big losses if traders are making rushed decisions.
As you've said, it's much more efficient to dedicate the time for other things.

After all, trading is a very risky and stressful way to make money:
https://i.imgur.com/7uyxx5o.png
A trader after he traded successfully
 :D

Applying one's knowledge in sectors like Forex and trading to Bitcoin might not yield accurate predictions. This is because bitcoin is not like other foreign exchanges or stocks that can be manipulated easily. I observed that bitcoin is gradually becoming independent from external manipulative forces.  


The best advice I always get from most bitcoin supporters is just keep hodling because the gain of keeping your coins is far greater than the little profit you make from trading. Although the price currently looks attractive to trade, I have decided to keep my coin because it is my long-time investment.   

I agreed. No matter what you think or analyze, with a supply like 21million and some of those arent even used or loss in the space. We can see how limited this could be, imagine you have a 1 bitcoin over that fixed supply, even smaller or scarce than the peoples population among the world. You can see it worth in the long run that will succeed. This is an incredible explanation OP!

You missed the most important thing here.

Make sure you're buy Bitcoin and not buy shitcoin aka altcoin :D

It doesn't matter how long you hold, shitcoin will always being a shitcoin where it might be a scam, become a deadcoin, etc. There's no point for holding shitcoin for longer than 6 months or a year, also you shouldn't diversify your investment to other shitcoin. If you want to diversify you need to buy other assets e.g. gold, stock, or real estate.

Anyway I'm 100% agree with your point, it's better to hold Bitcoin rather than to trade it. Just make sure you're buy Bitcoin with money you can afford to lose, so you wouldn't really worried when the Bitcoin price suddenly drop for 80-90% in the bear market.

Hmm..So is position trading acceptable for bitcoin and not considered as trap?

I mean you don't have to go through a tedious task of technical analysis on a daily basis; instead, you can look for buying and selling on a much longer timeframe. This way, you can maximize a good return but it will take a lot of patience and a bit of mental strain. Even if you don't sell at peak, there is still a good probability that the price will retrace for buying opportunity.

I don't know, it feels like some people do this trick in accumumulating sats in the long run.

Even if you used TA on forex, it still doesn't mean you're going to make money. Always remember when doing active trading, you're trading against actual professionals on trading desks working for huge companies. Quite difficult to win against them if you're just a retail trader trading in your pajamas.

DCA is another safe way to hodl Bitcoin long-term. It provides lesser risk since the price is very volatile.

That is so contradictory! If you know something is a shitcoin and it is going to die, then there is absolutely no justification for buying it in first place let alone bagholding it for such a long time as 6+ months! The only time buying a shitcoin could be acceptable is if you are seeing an ongoing pump and want to jump on board and most importantly if you get out very quickly like after gaining 20% profit or a couple of hours whichever came first.
That's one of the rare cases that trading is OK with me.

HODL is the safest but not really easy to follow cause being patient when the market goes up and down everytime is a stressful job too but once we understand this is how it will be and adapt the condition then it will be a money making heaven.

On the other hand trading is risky but I do day trade with small capital compared to my portfolio value for fiat so I won't touch my long term investments at any cost and cover the expenses along with needs and wants via profits from day trading.

This could work to accumulate some sats if done right. For example, one who held through the last bull run, cause they have not reached their target profit has the exact same amount of bitcoin as they did during the bear market, but another who sold at the peak or some percentage off it and bought back at the bottom or some percentage off it, would have a much higher amount of bitcoin in their portfolio.

The downside here is you have to be constantly checking the price as well as holding some stable coins which you exchanged for bitcoin, while waiting for the retrace.

- Jay -

Hodling works for Bitcoin alone, not for others. Have given up plenty money by holding coins until they turned to dust. Had I converted those profits into BTC, would be having good amount of BTC today. But oh well, it's what it is.

There are alot of people who would like to earn immediately that's why they make a trade and get a ride with the market volatility which is still good if they have fundamental and other tools for making short-term trading, but the profit is not assured right here if you don't have the knowledge, that's why still tons of people make a lot of time just to consider this as their job if you are just an investor that doesn't want to really care with the price movement because you are aiming for months or years of holding I guess this is a great deal for making a hold for me its the safest than making risk with the short term trade sometimes the market not assured movement because of the whales.

hodling is indeed much more effective for me. even though I am a beginner but I prefer to be hodling than keep trading it every day. maybe because my schedule is quite busy in managing the business. so I'm not confident enough to do technical analysis to trade. because I also do not understand much about technical analysis.

and I think hodling is more comfortable because my mentality is more awake. moreover, I continue to collect bitcoins with an installment strategy like DCA. so I can stay focused on my business. and let my investment run and increase as time goes on.

but I have occasionally tried trading but it was in altcoins. and it is only done occasionally when I hear an event is happening or a hype is brewing.

Hodling can work really well for certain altcoins as well. The only problem being that you need to actually pick the correct ones, in which is very difficult to do — it's pretty much like looking for a needle in a haystack.

More trust in HODL than Trading.
Trades are too complicated to think about too difficult in technical analysis always mind drain gets stressed so I left the trade this is not the best way to make a profit if comparison with HODL is clear I opted for this because there is nothing to focus on right except don't sell our holdings in our hands, I believe what is the goal for HODL it will be more profitable.

Trying to keep getting bitcoins from DCA as well as my lump-sum will stay consistent with what I've been doing so far and now I have almost half of the bitcoins in my hands as a result of HODL bought regularly using the above method, at this point I believe how is the 4 year cycle really going to happen then i will leave the bitcoins in the hardware wallet for years.

HODL....

There are a large number of investors who don't accept trading, leaving the main priority to HOLD BTC. And it is obvious that you belong to this category of people. But I think that increasing increasing the number of bitcoins in my wallet will be more attractive than just HODL. And for such an increase in BTC, I use the ETH/BTC trading pair, since this trading pair is safer for me, regardless of where the price goes.

You did not fail. You chose the wrong path the way people choose a sport. You get told that snowboarding is great so you try that and after a few days of struggling you try skiing and find that it's easier and gives you more fun.

Trying is never a bad thing.
Trying and sticking with something you don't like doing and you're not getting better at is a bad thing and not trying is a real failure.

Bitcoin is too manipulated and people panic too much because they don't understand it, which is why it's so hard to predict its moves.

People without any trading experience and try Holding Bitcoin for a period of 4 years or adjusting to a 4-year cycle would be better than having to trade for 4 years with analysis that will burden the mind and psychology.
I also tried to trade during this time to earn a year's worth of profits.
Of course, there will be losses and gains.
But when I held for 1 year the profit was even more from quite complicated trades with the same investment amount.
So it's better to do Holding for long-term investment than having to trade every day.
The mind can be calmer without the burden of having to think about analysis. it remains only to determine when to enter the market and when to get out to take profits.

But will it work for everyone?
Because everyone has their own decision.

No matter how good the analysis we make, there is no guarantee for us that market movements will always move as we expect, maybe so far only some of the lucky ones have been able to get a return on trading and even then it doesn't make them feel the same profit on the next trade, but if holding bitcoin, so far it has been proven to be able to provide greater returns for people who have strong hands who are able to hold bitcoin in the long term because if we look at the history of price movements, bitcoin has always experienced growth in value from time to time caused by continued growth in adoption increases thus making the supply of bitcoins scarce in circulation thus pushing the price higher as demand continues to increase.

As someone who has done both for years, I think it's a matter of balance. There are times when you can make good money by trading. There is no harm in trading knowing the risks and limits. The biggest mistake of traders is that they use all the money they have. If you separate your trading balance and long term hodl balance, everything will be fine. Thus, you won't miss out on trading opportunities and you will continue to accumulate BTC regularly. This plan will work as long as you are disciplined.

Yeah, that is very rare and only works in very specific time frames like when the big altcoin is starting to get pumped for the very first time. For example buying the shitcoin called ETH in its early days and bag holding it for a while would have given you a lot of profit.

But generally speaking buying altcoins and bag holding them is never a good idea specially if you are investing your bitcoin in them. For example 0.15BTC invested in the same shitcoin called ETH 5 years ago is now worth only 0.07BTC which is more than 50% loss.

This is a good routine actually but majority are probably doing all in when they are trading for something either its short term and long term. Thus leaving no budget for such opportunity since they are being held up by their holdings. Pretty much, reminding me of myself when I was still too naive to do many investment. Didnt bother if there are no fiat stablecoins standing by.

Individuals frequently trade bitcoins in the hope of quickly increasing their holdings. However, trading is a challenging endeavor. Many traders are losing money rather than making money. Therefore, we may occasionally believe that trading is merely a waste of time and effort. We also cannot remember how many times we were stressed out after losing a lot of trades. When I think the market is about to change direction, I trade, but I mostly trade altcoins because they are mostly used for speculation.

Trading is not that simple; regardless of how proficient you are in technical analysis, you will occasionally fail. Many people have tried trading before, and many of them fail in spite of the time they invest in the analysis. Therefore, I don't believe that trading, especially short trading, is the best course of action. In actuality, trading is riskier, more stressful, and takes more time than holding. Holding is a straightforward investment strategy, particularly for Bitcoin. Additionally, due to the scarcity of Bitcoin after the halving phase every four years, if you can hang onto your Bitcoin investment for a long time, you will undoubtedly profit from it, compare to trading that you can profit easily  and as well you can  encounter loss also easily.

When compared, it is calmer with holding bitcoin than trading all year round. I also feel how my mind is burdened during trading, of course this affects psychologists, sometimes I can't even sleep when I experience losses from trading.
Regarding losses and profits, of course this is always natural, but my mind is more drained on trading than holding bitcoins, now I'm starting to try to stop not doing serious trades, which means not too often because I will focus more on holding bitcoins that have been planned for the year then and now has been successful enough to survive to continue to acquire bitcoins.

I feel how too complicated to walk with crypto.
I despise shitcoin for the long term.

https://i.ibb.co/2S8CNgc/Fn-F3dgi-WIAMDy-IZ.jpg

there is no doubt that holding bitcoins is the best solution when all the altcoins or some shitcoins start to collapse.
Starting trading with bitcoins and then becoming a bitcoin holding which gives many advantages.
Trading always drains the mind and psychology will continue to play. the right choice when you cut down on intense trading and do bitcoin holding, buy gradually up to a certain time period and sell it when the target price is reached.


About the image that you embed, Maybe the correct one is BITCOIN VS ALTCOIN/SHITCOIN, because crypto covers everything, bitcoin also includes cryptocurrency or digital currency

Base on Trading vs HODLing of Bitcoin, Obviously Hodling is simply the best way to profit from investing in Bitcoin along the run.
Trading is risky and hard to profits ,However I don't discourage whomever that finds passion in trading and is making profit from it, I have a long term Bitcoin holding and also have a portfolio where I trade Bitcoin to get more Bitcoin.

But for Newbies into the space, the best option for them to navigate profitably is HODLing.

I also tried trading and failed every time. Because once I made a profit, the second time I became emotional with the trade and lost that profit and capital with it. And in this way I lost a huge amount of funds. Trading seems very stressful to me.

So I reduced the amount of trading funds and focused more on holdl, thereby reducing the stressful life a lot.

The market is so unpredictable so even if you have the best of your technical analysis, that won’t work anymore. That is why trading these days may mostly turn out into gambling, except for those professional traders who really have their own guts to trade and still succeed. But for beginners who aim to trade to maximize their profits, it’s better to just focus on hodling first and when they think they’re ready to lose, they can start trading at their own calculated risk.

As they have said, you will never learn in trading if you don't try it, so it is expected that you will encounter losses while you are trading and trading does not mean you will always make a profit. Sometimes you need to gain knowledge from experience and an expert in trading will never call an expert if they don't have experienced massive losses in trading. So if you don't want to get a loss, never do trading but instead hold which is safe than trading. We have different preferences on how to gain profit in the crypto market, in holding you will never see a quick gaining profit, it takes a matter of time, not like trading, it is just a matter of an hour you will see your profit if you are good at it.

Well,I am not a fan of trading because I don't trade,but I'm now seeing that if I should follow what you said,It will work,and I'm going to try is this tnow.And ofcourse I am aware that if you trade,you can get immediate profit,which long term hodlers won't get.but in thesame vein,I still prefer hodling because I don't see the much risks involved,rather it will just required your patience,as long as you can wait,then there is every tendency that your investment won't be a waiste considering the fact that you didn't rush  while others where rushing to trade.

A few months ago, I tried to trade again because I saw an increase and decrease in bitcoin. But it turned out to be not as easy as I imagined because at that time when the price goes down, it doesn't increase immediately but often, the price goes down again and stays there for some time. This made me have to wait a bit longer and I had to endure it.

And since then, I've been trying to just buy at a low price and collect it and hold it because I know that analyzing the movement of bitcoin is not easy and the price can also move anywhere. If you want big profits in the future, you just need to buy and hold it until the price reaches the new ATH again. And if it's still under $40k, that's a good price to buy.

There is this saying in crypto that says ''to make profits in crypto you must learn how to hodl''. I have not been relenting from it. Any other thing I am being advised to do apart from that(hodl) doesn't work for me. I can't go into technical analysis when I know how unpredictable and volatile the crypto market is. I prefer sticking up to my bitcoin plan of long-term profits than trading for short-term  profits

Good point, it's really difficult to find such Altcoins and people tend to "diversify" by buying multiple Altcoins for HODLing and the result is a huge loss for most Altcoins, while only a few Altcoins will deliever good gains. On average, "diversified" Altcoin HODLers will make a loss.
I'm sure we could make some great statistics here but I've tried to describe it here: Is diversification into different coins really a good advice for Newbies? (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5199926.0)

In addition, Bitcoin is very suited for HODL because it's capped at 21M coins.

When I first started trading I became successful.  I failed the second time.  And suffered huge losses which I still can't avoid.  However, Bitcoin trading requires extensive practical experience and an understanding of various exchanges and purchases.  I am currently busy with Bitcoin holdings.  And I held some assets through Bitcoin which I am still seeing part of the profit.  I like holding more than trading.

I tried the both in my crypto journey. Trading is about losing and winning with being risky. I trade most of the time last year and didn’t get that much profit. I was holding for a few weeks now and I can say the holding is better. Trading and holding somehow will make profits but the risk involve in it is much specially trading.

I suggest to hold and add more on your btc holdings.

Whoever invested 0.15BTC in ETH years ago would have made a bloody good profit when the price of ETH reached $4k in 2021. You're a bad businessman if you don't profit from your investments. I'm sure there were some greedy poor investors who didn't take profit when Bitcoin hit $60k two years ago. BTW, I wouldn't call ETH a shitcoin; ETH is the best thing that has ever happened to cryptocurrency.

Life is all about risk, and if you want to make a good profit, you have to take the risk of hodling altcoins with money you can afford to lose. I will be eternally grateful to $BANANA. I made more money with this shitcoin than I ever did with BTC since 2016. Hodling $BANANA was a worthwhile risk.

As a cursory response, fuck shitcoins, including that crappy coin called ethereum.. it is also a shitcoin, if any of you might not have had realized it by now.

Regarding the thrust of this thread, I agree with the overall idea of not trading and mostly HODLing your BTC; however, the vast majority of normies (or even people of considerable means, institutions or governments), do not tend to come into any investment in terms of one lump sum investment (or already having the capital to go straight into the investment and to establish their actual target allocation amount - whether a percentage of their wealth or some amount that they want to have in the asset class - in this case bitcoin), so the idea of just buy and HODL hardly makes any sense on its own without some kind of exploration regarding how anyone might get to their target BTC stash level and including whether they might be in their BTC accumulation stage or in their BTC maintenance stage, and depending upon which stage they are in, then their priorities may well end up changing based on those kinds of considerations.  

Accordingly, there is a need to attempt to put the decision to buy bitcoin and the subsequent decision to act upon such decision to buy and to start to accumulate bitcoin in such a way that allows for the reaching of some kind of a suitable accumulation target, and thereby graduate from the accumulation stage and into the maintenance stage of such investment into bitcoin.

For sure, it could take quite a long time to get from the BTC accumulation stage and into maintenance stage, and part of the matter may well depend upon if someone is a new investor who might be 18 years old or maybe in his/her early 20s, and barely just starting to invest and build an investment portfolio versus someone who might be in his her mid to late 30s or even older and may have already spent a large number of years building such investment portfolio.  There could be some uncertainties regarding whether you have arrived at your goals. .and surely part of the dilemma that newbie (new to BTC) normies have is to falsely believe that they can reach their accumulation target faster by selling BTC and buying back lower, which yeah is another way of describing trading... so surely, just like the OP, I do not agree with any such trading approach as a strategy to reasonable/prudently build an investment portfolio.. whether BTC or any other asset class, unless there is some desire to become a professional trader or to focus on building such skills, and that could well be a very long job and there are ONLY a small number of traders who likely figure out ways to actually beat something like a buy and hold strategy or even a DCA strategy (which is amongst the best of strategies for many people, if not the actual best strategy).

Of course, there are some folks who do come to bitcoin after they had already spent some time building their investment portfolio, so they might have a lump sum that optionally they could allocate to bitcoin and to take it from some other area in which they are are already invested, but it seems to me that, even if someone has the ability to optionally lump sum into an investment (or to allocate into BTC because they have funds available for such), a lot of people still do not tend to lump sum into their investments (whether BTC or other investments), and that the better practice (and even the one that many people follow) is to largely add bitcoin to their investment portfolio in a kind of DCAing kind of way.. whether it is a spread out DCA or perhaps a more aggressive DCA that might take place over a relatively short period of time, and then to bring up their investment amount to their target allocation level by focusing on increasing their BTC investment amounts and letting their other investments ride (whether that might be equities, bonds and maybe property and commodities), and sometimes there might be some abilities to move out of one of the categories of investment that they already hold and to add to the bitcoin investment from that other allocation that they have decided is in need of being reduced.

So, let's say for example that a newbie to bitcoin might spend 6 months or one year or even longer to attempt to allocate various buys into bitcoin in order to reach their own target BTC accumulation level.. and then when they reach their target BTC accumulation level then maybe at that point they might go back to directing their investment over other assets that they might hold or perhaps they might have to consider (or reconsider) whether they should reconsider any of their investment strategies once they have reached their BTC goal level.. .. yet if they have not yet reached fuck you status.. then they may still continue to invest into BTC on a regular basis...

Maybe there is some ways to fairly easily flesh some of this out?

Surely at some point while we are building our BTC investment portfolio, we may recognize that either the target allocation level has been reached, whether that is a specific amount of BTC (or dollar value) or perhaps a certain percentage of the overall investment portfolio; however, the dilemma might not be over once we believe that our target is reached because let's say for example that a newbie to bitcoin has $100k of investments in their investment portfolio that is what is in the investment portfolio value prior to getting involved in BTC, so that person's BTC accumulation target is to allocate bitcoin until the bitcoin portion becomes 10% of the investment portfolio.

Depending on cashflow or how the assessment of the investments might be, it could take a year or more to reach such an initial 10% target investment level, and for sure, the BTC price does not stop moving (going up and down) while the BTC accumulation is going on, and surely even once the target is reached, BTC prices might go up or down and cause some reconsiderations about whether to buy more BTC or to sell some BTC in order to keep the allocation amount at the 10% allocation levels.   Reassessments can be made along the way, and surely it is likely that reassessment is going to be much more concrete when dealing with actual BTC accumulation levels that have been achieve rather than the speculation of how much might be achieved into the future, so there is some advantage (and more concreteness) that happens when going from a low coiner or a no coiner and into a preferred BTC accumulation level.  

If the BTC price goes shooting up while we are allocating into it or even after we have reached our initial 10% allocation target, then personally, I do not believe in the necessity to reallocate a "winner" like bitcoin, yet of course, each person is going to differing conclusions regarding the extent to which they feel comfortable with BTC becoming a larger portion of their investment portfolio, and there may well be some needs to diversify into other assets (and I am not referring to diversifying into shitcoins) in order to feel some comfort - especially if BTC and dollars had been the ONLY two items in the investment portfolio.

Surely some folks who had been in bitcoin for a while, might have started out with a 10% allocation into bitcoin, but then after some exponential bitcoin price rises along the way, then maybe in some cases, the bitcoin allocation might have gone up to 70% or some other higher amount that is way out of alignment with the original 10% target amount, and then maybe the BTC allocation corrects back down to 30% or 40% and then goes up again, so there can be questions along the way whether some of the profits should be shaved off or maybe if there might be some needs to buy other assets (investments) during those periods in which BTC prices are going up, and I surely would not suggest to sell high amounts of your BTC, but I believe that it is prudent, reasonable and perhaps even necessary to have diversification into some other assets (including cash) (and again, I am not referring to shitcoins), so of course, there is a lot of discretion regarding how to potentially handle some of those kinds of high levels of likely ongoing BTC volatility and if your investment has reached high levels in which it needs to be diversified or if you are still in early building stages, then it might not even be necessary to diversify it until it gets to a certain high level.. (that is determined by you regarding how much that amount is).  

Any such bitcoin "HODLer" has to decide how to deal with such BTC price volatility that may well include upside price appreciation and throws off his/her allocation targets, and maybe at the point of being greatly in BTC profits, there are more liberties to sell some of the BTC off, without necessarily considering yourself as a trader, but selling off some BTC may well not even be the better choice unless such selling is done in ways that are relatively small.. and just continue to let the winner (in this case bitcoin) continue to ride, even though it might continue to have high levels of price volatility.. which includes both UP and DOWN prices...

Even if there might be some seeming dilemma in managing BTC holdings that I am presenting, the overly price appreciation of bitcoin (which is not guaranteed) is NOT a bad problem to have because it allows for options to sell whenever you want when you are in such a status of profits in your holdings.. and if you just sell small amounts of your BTC holdings or maybe live off of other sources of income during periods in which you might have had been investing those, then you are in a place in which your BTC value might continue to go up and down, but you are not as worried about it because you are largely in profits and you feel that you have way more options because of that wealth effect, and to the extent that you have shaved off and diversified some of your BTC into other investments might still not take away that your initial allocation to bitcoin was way smaller than the allocation (or the value of your holdings) became merely because the bitcoin went from not being in profits (or maybe even being in the negative) during accumulation to being in fairly high levels of profits (and surely it is not even guaranteed that bitcoin will go into profits, but part of investing into something like bitcoin is to be able to attempt to plan for how any of us might deal with an investment that may well go into profits and if we will feel confident enough to mostly hold through the whole price volatility process even if we might shave some profits off along the way too.

So questions regarding how to deal with BTC once reaching accumulation target levels, can become a bit of a different one, which at the same time, there can be questions or even lack of confidence regarding how to get to a point of profits, and surely there is dollar cost average buying, buying on dips and lump sum investing that compliments those periods in which you might either hold through the rough periods or to buy more BTC while in the BTC accumulation stages, but if you have run out of money at various points, then you might only be able to HODL through such periods in which cash is tight and perhaps buy a little bit of BTC every couple of weeks if that is how cashflows might come in... so once you have accounted for various ways that you continue to buy BTC and try to build up your portfolio, I doubt that trading serves any meaningful and or productive role until well after you have exceeded your BTC accumulation goals and then you have more options in regards to how you want to maintain your BTC holdings, but trading (or selling) in order to try buy back BTC at lower prices seems like a bad strategy when it comes to either building your BTC holdings or even to follow through with a plan that might involve selling some BTC on the way up, but there is no need to expect that the money will be able to be used to buy more BTC if the price drops, but if the BTC price does drop, then you might have options to use some of your freed-up money to buy back.. .. and I would not even characterize a selling of BTC on the way up strategy/approach as trading.

We all know the phrase " Hold is Gold" and it's perfect when we say about Bitcoin. I am not like those who are only a short term trader. I think Bitcoin should buy at a deep price and hold until it pumps at the bull season. And anyone can't predict Bitcoin's price accurately as it isn't possible but we can predict support and resistance area and it helps day trader to enter and exit from the market.

That is one of the reasons why many people say that holding bitcoin will be more profitable than trading because in trading many investors and even I personally feel the same way as you so that we rarely meet traders who are able to come out with big profits, different from holding which has been proven so far. able to provide greater returns if we are able to hold ownership especially in the long term, if we do not have good skills in trading then we should just hold on to our bitcoins even though by holding we cannot immediately get profits such as profits in trading.

Your story is similar to mine when I started trading, when I started trading I remember I made a profit of around 10-15 dollars on an alt-coin, and then I made a good fund on investment together, without DCA management, an now I am still bearing that loss lost. And there is not much hope that I can recover my fund or earn profit from it, still I am waiting for the next bull-run, even though its supply is increasing. Bitcoin is very good in this aspect so now I have started an investment idea with 10 dollars per week for my savings.
Holding Bitcoins is also a part of trading, it is long-term trading strategy. There is doubt about that Bitcoin holding is the best, but there are options to do both long-term and short-term trading together.
I don't think professional traders just sit with one investment strategy, it's not bad to try something new with time. But if you don't want to take risks, it would be better to hold a good bitcoin fund with a hardware wallet after finding a good dip.

What is actually the goal of bitcoin? Is it to be held by a few people? What if Satoshi and the early adopters bought and held all the bitcoin when it was worth nothing. Would we have own even a sat of bitcoin today? Why do we praise hodlers more than spenders?

"If we hold the price of bitcoin gets more stable." This is very interesting. Then the second version of it is that "if bitcoin gets more stable it will increase the demand of bitcoin as a store of value." Is the goal of bitcoin to be a currency or a store of value.?

It's to be an alternative payment system and be the actual currency at the same time per se. But time has changed that its value changed overtime and people want to hold it instead because of having a limited supply.

Satoshi doesn't need to buy it, during the early days, bitcoin can easily be mine by everyone and it's not believing that it will reach its success that it has got right now. So, we're all going to end up with questions about what ifs.

Maybe we'll still have it because of the supplies that can still be mined as of this moment.

You got me on this and you've got the right question. The main purpose of bitcoin going to the first question is to be an actual payment and currency which shouldn't be held. Thus, the spenders and users of it should be the one to be praised for adding that activity in the network but I do believe that every holder is also a spender but, not all that they hold is ready to be spent.

Most of those that have found themselves involved in cryptocurrency today, isn't about the purpose of using it for a digital currency. Many prefer using fiats in local mobile banks to fill up for this but, when it comes to transferring or making payments across borders, the moneygram comes handy but surely, none can serve in the capacity bitcoin would.

The ability of bitcoin to increase in value has caused this shift to being an asset and even with the knowledge that holding is profitable over time, investors still hope to make the most of the now and still benefit on now in the later time when the coin goes up.

This is why most investors tend to look towards trading but, more of the experienced users that have known bitcoin market for the uncertainties it comes with prefers to wait (hold). That's what the beginners should do.

We joined cryptocurrency market when it is hot in a bull run. We mostly join altcoins and skip Bitcoin because we think Bitcoin is too expensive and we are not ready to buy Bitcoin but want to use a same capital to buy altcoins. We feel more happy when having 10k, 100k of altcoin in our portfolio than having only 0.01 or 0.1 bitcoin in our portfolio.

First it looks like we are genius with quick profit from altcoins. Later, it turns to be sad stories as altcoins don't have good fundamentals so fast comes fast goes. We will mostly end with losses together with altcoin bear market. We can DCA bitcoin in bear market as it is very good but DCA with altcoins are stupid in bear market.

That sounds like a dumb question... or at least it is a kind of hostile question, especially given bitcoin's history, various battles and even a lot of the negative (naysayers) that are out in the world in regards to bitcoin.  If you try to attempt to figure out what bitcoin is, then you may well come to realize that you are the one who needs to figure out for yourself whether you are going to get involved in bitcoin in terms of your energy, your learning, your activities and even your finances and psychology.

And, if you do not see any reason or purpose to get involved in bitcoin, then you may well not have any kind of sufficient understanding of what it is.. and perhaps it would be a good idea to look into the matter.

It could be possible that bitcoin serves no purpose for you.. and you are likely in the best position to figure out those kinds of matters in terms of assessing various aspects of your own particulars.


Bitcoin is for everyone... but some people might believe that it is not for them, so they can choose to opt out and then see how that goes for them to choose to not participate in bitcoin.


Are you just making shit up?  You seem to know something about bitcoin, but then you are hypothesizing some dumb-ass situation that is not even true... what's your point?  You are wanting to suggest that bitcoin is not fair because some people knew about bitcoin earlier than others?  

Another thing.. you are suggesting that there is some kind of unfair hoarding of bitcoin that might be taking place?  It sounds like you have some kind of an agenda. and you are not even trying to approach the topic in a way that is trying to figure out what is going on...


Who is we?

You can do whatever the fuck you want with your bitcoin, in the event that you choose to get some.


The goal for any individual (including yourself) should be to figure out what you are going to do with bitcoin in the event that you choose to participate, and bitcoin is still pretty new (a little more than 14 years live so far) , so it takes a while to build various network effects (such as the ones outlined by Trace Mayer) (https://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/the-seven-network-effects-of-bitcoin/) and even to develop various systems around it.  Some areas of the world have more bitcoin opportunities than other areas of the world, so there is quite a bit of geographical diversity in terms of both being able to get access to bitcoin or to figure out how you might use bitcoin in your own life to the extent that you are actually interested in learning about bitcoin rather than making some lame and seemingly presumptuous arguments/accusations that seem ill-informed at best and perhaps troll/shill intentional.


Getting involved in shitcoins is stupid at almost all times.  You are wasting your time and your energies, when they likely could be better focused on figuring out how to accumulate bitcoin and to manage bitcoin and to learn more about bitcoin and perhaps even involving yourself in bitcoin in various ways that go beyond buying it and studying its prices.

I am not good at trading Bitcoin, so I discovered I am a good holder, and holding has a low risk compared to trading. Most people have even lost all of their Bitcoin through trading because of either high leverage, greed for the quest to make more profit, or the trade failing to end in the predicted direction. All it takes is to hold my bitcoin in a non-custodial wallet and give high security measures to the wallet and my private key, but in trading, one need to be active, analyze the market, read a lot of crypto news, and still risk your crypto assets to make a profit that may sometimes end in losses. So I will just hold rather than risk my asset.

Trading must have more skills because it doesn't only require one pattern or other technical, sometimes more must be combined in order to be able to predict trades in an accurate direction, of course this is all the complexity that exists, therefore I am also now more focused on holding bitcoin will have a low risk because you only need to buy and then hold and this only requires a strong hand and patience in building a portfolio throughout the year.

Maybe people are free to do what they want related to making profits in crypto trading, I have never banned anyone but ourselves that holding BTC will be much better in the future, now it will be even stronger if we are excited to make efforts in the bitcoins we have in a wallet that we control.

Both trading and holding involve a certain degree of risk. Holding can result in two outcomes: either the value of the asset increases as the team continues to develop the project or it collapses if the team becomes less dedicated or when investors lose trust in the project. Similarly, in trading, when a market is long with the expectation that its value will increase, the prediction may come true, or it may be reversed due to unforeseeable circumstances beyond the trader's control. Despite the inherent risks, holding has shown to be a relatively safer and more profitable investment strategy, particularly for those with limited capital.

This kind of thing does happen very often and it seems that it is not only you who do it but most people must also have experienced it even if not for the whole.
We are too focused on price so in this case of course choosing a lower price is always used as an excuse to get a large profit even though this only becomes false and actually misguided and makes us a little lost.
I'm not saying that everyone who is in altcoins is wrong because that is their choice but in this case I would rather suggest continuing to be in bitcoin because it is clearly very much more viable.

On the other hand DCA is definitely one of the good things and for now I am also still doing it because it is like it has become an obligation at least for me :D

Your points are well-made, OP. After trying trading several times in the past and failing, which caused me to experience a little bit of financial difficulty, I finally realized my mistake.
Hodling has the lowest level of risk, despite the fact that they both carry some risk, because you can sell when the bull market arrives if you don't have any urgent financial obligations. Thanks, Op

As a rule, most altcoins, with the exception of a few TOP altcoins, are suitable only for short-term trading. Accordingly, those who try to hold altcoins will eventually lose their money. So hodl came to us from Bitcoin and, accordingly, remains the most reliable coin for this.

The goal of Bitcoin is to give you financial sovereignty and complete freedom/liberty with your funds. The early adopters like Satoshi and the others didn't buy Bitcoins, they mined all the Bitcoins they had back then, it was not hard for them to do so, but it was impossible for them to exhaust the fixed supply before Bitcoin accrued value and mining became more difficult and sophisticated.
Hodling entails being your own bank, and that does not come easy, it comes with quite a lot of responsibilities that many people fail to have, that's why people find it pretty difficult to be their own bank, either they send their funds to exchanges or they make mistakes keeping their seed phrase, my point is basically that hodling isn't easy and people should be well prepared and learned before they start hodling.

I'd say that people have an interest in trading because of what they see on the internet as some traders encourage people to trade. Yes, many have tried and failed, they'll think that it works too easily.
In fact, I was trying this before together with one of my friends, and guess what, I fail while my friend become successful. I was wondering why even if I ask him what he did and follow what he said, I'm still losing. Now I realize that even though these influencers will show us what they do, it won't give us assurance that we become successful and be like them, and this is because we have different decisions in every situation.

It is better you do one at a time if you don't know how the market works. Holding is more difficult than you may think if you have never hold during the market turbulence when the price of cryptocurrency is falling and rising putting you in different state of mind, thinking of whether to sell or hold.
Trading is an act and is not something everybody can do. There are people that specialize in trading and for them to keep having a good result, they have to be in the system for long to be able to have concrete understanding about the market.

This is a perfect chart to interact from a better perspective Miau!
The whole idea isn't for grown Ups in crypto, it's actually for 'em rookies right? Cus I feel alot of peeps, with proper fundamental analysis, do trading professionally and it works for them as well.
It's actually gonna look like a scam to anyone that doesn't have a proper understanding on it... Trading is good, but HODLing is safe! Whichever way you choose, just make sure you're not too desperate and greedy, cus that's where the problem comes.

Sandra 🧑‍🦰

I am starting to feel that I am going to have to start to go on a battle of that stupid-ass term "non-custodial."  It is confusing and it sounds like a bad thing...

Fuck that term.. it sounds like something imposed upon normies.

I am going to start to use the term self-custodial.. ... and so perhaps the dichotomy is self-custodial, which is preferred versus held by third parties, which might have some benefits in terms of being afraid to manage your own keys or to make sure that you do not lose your coins, but surely what is currently called "custodial" is really custodial by a third party and not by self... and therefore is not as private and also is a potential loss of control of the coins or the value in certain circumstances....

Otherwise, in regards to the points about trading, I have frequently asserted that trading should not be used as a means to accumulate BTC, but could be used as a means to insure from volatility - however with an asset like bitcoin, it is not good to be fucking around (trading) with very much of your stash, so if there are decisions to sell small parts of the stash (asa form of insurance in regards to possible downside price movements, then there could be calculations that are made in regards to how much BTC can be sold upon various upward price moves, and maybe if BTC prices move up 100%, then no more than 10% of the stash would be "permissible" for selling.. and of course, each of us are entitled to work out what kinds of formulas we believe to be permissible (for our own situations) that might allow us to sell some BTC on the way up.. without running the risk of selling too much and running out of BTC if the BTC price were to go shooting up and then we have hardly any BTC or even no BTC.. and that would not be a good scenario to end up playing out for any of us who are proclaiming to want to get rich from deee cornz.


Many people are fairly easily led into the belief that they ONLY way to "outperform" the market is to sell and to buy back lower.... which is largely just a bunch of nonsense, because it becomes easy to get trapped into wanting to increase the performance of your product (BTC in this case), and without really appreciating that BTC is designed to pump forever, and even if it is not guaranteed to go up right away, BTC remains a very great asymmetric bet to the upside so long as any of us who invest into it buys and holds it without getting too impatient and also while realizing that the asymmetric bet to the upside is not guaranteed.. but still is a good bet.. which means it is a good investment.


It seems to be a trick to cause people to fuck around with an otherwise good bet.. which is buy and hold or buy and continue to buy (in a DCA kind of a way) until reaching a status of having way to o many BTC.. then it becomes easier to decide to start to sell some or to shave some off, once each of us have spent a decent amount of time to accumulate a lot of it and to largely be in profits, then we will realize that maybe we can shave a bit off as the price is going up... just for fun (or just because we can without even needing to worry about it very much).. maybe that point comes to us 4-10 years down the road, but perhaps it takes 20 years to get to a point in which we consider ourselves to have enough (or too much) BTC.


I doubt that both are good.

I think that everyone thinks they can just learn trading by doing it, and it must not be very hard, so they start to trade, and sure they learn along the way, too.

Buy and Hold is a better strategy, and sure trading (and selling) can be incorporated into a buy and hold strategy, but there are many temptations and ways to fuck it up.. and to end up with way fewer coins than a more pure buy and hold strategy would have allowed.

So there is nothing wrong with buy and hold, and there is nothing wrong with trying to learn along the way.. including what is the value (fundamental values) of the asset that you are buying and you are accumulating (in this case bitcoin).  Sometimes you are not going to be able to learn about the value of the asset that you are holding if you are fucking around with trading it as if it were some cheap thing (like as if it were a shitcoin or a penny stock, when it is not.. and sure on the face of it, the charts for bitcoin look just the same as any other asset, but that can really be misleading, if there is a lack of appreciation for the true value that bitcoin is bringing to the world in terms of it being an asset class like no other and really a generational (if not even a century long) break through in terms of an asset class that has a lot of design perfections in terms of it's digital scarcity that allows for transportation of value over digital means.. and very powerful and paradigm changing in terms of how value is calculated, verified and even stored (and potentially even transported over space and time).. .

So in some sense bitcoin is amongst the best (if not the best) of discoveries (inventions) that also allow normies to be able to invest into it.. as the most sound of money that the world has ever seen that has the potential (and has already been contributing to increases of value for humanity) to improve incentives in regards to how money is created and calculated in societies without middle-men being able to manipulate it (even though surely on the surface there are going to be a lot of attempts to weaken and kill bitcoin), so if you want to fuck around trading the best asset that man has ever had, then good luck with that... you are likely going to need it.. unless you are already starting out as rich, then maybe you don't mind fucking around, but if you are trying to become rich then you should be striving to work on strategies to build the size of your stash of the asset (BTC) that is the best that the world has ever known.. up until now..

You never stop surprising me with new ideas every time I read your replies. really bad ass, but the term non-custodial is what I have learned from people in the forum. You gave a more befitting name to it🎯

Just as you have said, JayJuanGee, some people think trading is the best way to increase their holdings, so they go ahead and mess with their bitcoin, which is not a safe thing to do. Some one who want to trade instead, can leave their initial holding and possibly invest a different amount of funds specifically for trading; I think it is better to do so than trade with their Bitcoin holding. There is always this bad feeling after losing a big sum in trading—that feeling of wanting to recover the lost coin already and, in the process, ending up losing everything again. so it's just better to hold one's coin in a self-costodial wallet.

I doubt that it is an original idea from me.  I think that others have said that the term non-custodial is confusing, so I am just deciding to go along with an idea that I got from others who have been saying similar things.  Maybe I got the idea from Matt Odell, or it could have been from someone else or some other podcast in which there had been some concerns about the term that makes it sound like a bad thing... 

Actually for years, there have been governmental campaigns that try to make it sound as if non-custodial is a bad thing, and there are some goals to try to cause it to become difficult to move coins off of exchanges, and those kinds of requirements do have precedential value in terms of some retirement accounts that might not allow self custody, and even some financial consultants are not allowed to hold the coins of their clients, so they have to use various kinds of legally recognized custodians, and so in some sense the term "non-custodial" is being transposed onto bitcoiners, and you know even some financial advisors recommend that bitcoiners invest 40% into bonds or some other ridiculous ideas like that because by law they are required to do those kinds of things, and also financial consultants may also be required to reallocate assets from time to time or not to overly allocate into a "risky" asset, such as bitcoin.  So frequently, those kinds of "experts" will be giving similar kinds of advise to bitcoiners who go to them in order to "consult" about what might be a prudent investment approach.  Experts can sometimes become trapped by requirements that are imposed upon them including incentives that they have to earn fees, such as 2% fees, so we sometimes will wonder why "experts" do not want to invest into bitcoin becauswe they cannot earn  a fee on it, and they are not even able to custody the bitcoin, and they might even have troubles finding out who can "custody" the BTC that they invest for their client, and bitcoin allows for self-custody.. and surely self-custody is a BIG responsibility, and not everyone can handle self-custody.. and sometimes we might have too much "freedom" from self-custody and start to move our bitcoin around and to trade it, etc etc, so I am not even proclaiming that self-custody is the better solution for everyone, because some people may well need some obstacles in the way of their abilities to move their coins around too easily.. and therefore they may end up trading them, or using them as collateral or some other risky approach that they do not realize what they are doing rather than securing their coins.. and not playing around with them.


It could be tempting right?  Let's say for example that you invest 20% of your income per year, then after 5 years, you may well end up having a full year's income saved up (invested) into bitcoin, and if the asset (bitcoin in this case) has performed well (gone up 2x, 5x, 20x or even 50x), then it could become very tempting to want to do something with those coins... and maybe it would be a good idea to take some profits off of the table, and maybe not?  If you ONLY have invested into bitcoin, then it might be a good idea to diversify into other assets at some point (and I am not referring to diversifying into shitcoins.. that's a good chance of becoming a loser's game or at least diversifying into shitcoins is adding more risk onto an already risky investment and it is not even removing the investment category outside of the same category.. in other words, when any of us are diversifying, we should be trying to diversify outside of our investment area into non-correlated assets  - or maybe less correlated assets, and there is hardly any achievement of diversification if the investment is in the same category of investment and just into a more risky aspect of it )..

It is not necessarily a bad problem to have, but the problem of diversifying your investments likely does not come until after you have built up your investment portfolio for a while, and then at some point, you might have a threshold in which you start to consider that diversification of your portfolio needs to be considered... whether that is reaching 1 year's income or maybe once you reach several times your yearly income.. but there could be some practicality to diversify to some extent if you are feeling that your investments are too concentrated in one or two areas... and it is not always clear - because one thing that can be good is to have value into a liquid asset, but another issue could be how volatile is that asset. and then also considering in what kind of time frame are you going to be wanting to draw income or value from the asset. 

They are not easily answered by someone who might not know your details, and sometimes you might have to consult with someone if you are believing that you might be becoming too over allocated in one area or another, and it is good to have a plan in place prior to the asset making a price move that causes you to panic, so usually you would like to consider various price points on the way up that might cause you to shave out some value in order to diversify in to other asset classes... and sometimes you do not even need to sell any BTC, you just stop buying it and start sending new money to another asset class that you are trying to get exposure.

Following the so-called influencers is a very big mistake that a lot of newbies commit these days, the influencers praise trading or particular tokens only for their own gains since they are either paid by the exchanges they promote or the tokens that they suggest buying, and those who follow their suggestions are more likely to lose money than those who take their decisions on their own.

You can obviously watch them and see what they are saying only for research purposes, and then do your due diligence before getting into a project and buying their token. Do it only if you are satisfied and not because some influencer said the token will be a success.

So correct considering my journey. I always lost when trading, and I recovered through hodling. Thanks for such a useful post.

This doesn't mean that the cycle will repeat forever, although we hope it does for a while.

TA, as 1miau said, is nothing more than pseudo-science, and a monkey with a crossbow would have better results than many self proclaimed professional analysts, because all the different factors that influence in Bitcoin's volatility cannot be controlled or predicted. Of course, some will have good luck and earn some money trading, but it will be more the result of chance than capacity IMO.

Technical analysis doesn't catch exogenous shocks ever. This is the biggest issue about technical analysis. Even if assumptions from the past apply in the future, they only do for so long until they don't. Whatever technical analysis told Wirecard investors the day before it crashed, TA didn't tell them to sell because there was fraud going on behind the scenes. TA never told anyone to invest in the military industry because Putin is going to invade Ukraine. TA never produced strong buy signals for Pharma stocks even once shortly before the pandemic broke out.

TA is similar to VaR or CFaR and all of these techniques or measures have in common that they don't catch abnormalities. But abnormalities are more normal than the word itself would suggest. It is no coincidence that a common approach to calculate VaR or CFaR is to use random walk simulations. The name is the game, "random walk". These models assume that stock prices move randomly. Especially the VaR is used in the banking industry to calculate short-term risks (value at risk). Since it turned out that this measure is not good at catching the risk at the tails of probability distributions, the TVaR has also been developed where higher risk events get hypothetically included and yet it is based on coincidence/uncertainty.

TA would probably work if you have a long history and a never changing set of assumptions and premises that hold true. When someone is applying TA hoping that the set of the underlying historical data will continue to hold true in the future, it is nothing but a gamble. The less complex the potential impact of exogenous shocks is to a certain stock, the more likely it is that TA tends to produce better results. And with "better" I don't mean strictly positive results.

A HODLer is usually less prone to having a bad timing. Diversification and at least a reasonable balance between short-, mid- and long-term investments is more promising. If someone is fully into short-term trading, not really diversified and makes a very unlucky decision because his TA lines told him to do so, the trader is wrecked.

HODLers often times have a different approach right away. Someone who decides to HODL also decides to invest an amount that does not have to be touched in the near-term. A trader potentially is dependent on income from many short-term trades, but if that trader is stuck in a crash that could not be anticipated at all, it is at least temporarily game over while the HODLer most likely has more funds available on a monthly basis or even in the savings account.

TA, as I said, only works if the underlying conditions from the past never change in the future and as probably everyone of us has learned by now, that is just not how reality works.

Everything you mentioned is like the waves on the beach are always there and come all the time. but I also often hear traders convey other options besides manual trading. namely trading using Trading Robot AI. Does it work and reliable? The assumption is, if we have a high emotional factor by using an Robot tradingit will be adjusted to the current conditions in the end the increase in the value of our investment will increase from day to day.

I run both, some of my coins are holding and some of my coins are trading. I have been trading since 2015, during which time I have never used an AI Robot.  Some basic reasons such as high prices, security make me continue to trade manually. I still feel comfortable today despite the ever-changing conditions. Maybe for those creators not users will feel comfortable because they master and certainly know, if you buy you may need to learn to settings and security risks that we do not know. Indeed, with robots we do not need to be afraid of uncontrolled emotions because we have chosen to stop loss or stop profit. IMO

Trading is a technical thing which is very difficult to do successfully and make a profit because there are many coins in the market, so it is the job of a professional trader to analyze when to pump which coin among them and this work is not possible for everyone. And this is why most traders lose while trading.
Holding on the other hand is a test of patience.  Holding is not easy for everyone but for those who have a lot of patience, holding is possible because to get something good from holding, one has to hold for a long time.  So I like your strategy because if you keep a coin in your holding and trade another coin it will make you forget about your holding so you don't lose patience.

I like @1miau points and they are very important so I want to translate it to my local Bengali language and inform my community about them.  @1miau I ask your permission

And even if we do trading "right" (according to technical analysis), it's not a guarantee for any win. Because if we would have a trading program, which is trading exactly a technical analysis trading strategy, to generate profits, it simply doesn't exist. Because no (day) trading strategy is reliable long-term. We can make some profits due to luck but that doesn't mean that it's a reliable strategy.
If there would be a reliable trading strategy, someone would have coded an application already to make it an automated trading strategy - but such a technical analysis trading strategy doesn't exist.

Only HODL or any other strategy based on economic growth - or Bitcoin's scarcity - is a (relatively) reliable strategy. But HODL is not related to (day) trading based on technical analysis, HODL is based on Bitcoin's fundamentals (scarcity).  :)

Of course, you can translate my topic for our local Bengali board because I believe "Trading vs. HODL" is a very important topic to be aware of.  :)

Yes, this is a completely logical thought. But this is not understood by everyone because everyone is concerned about getting something instant. while holding it demands a long term time. that is why day trading does not guarantee profit to traders, but most traders rush towards it

Thanks for your permission. this topic has been translated in my Bangali Language. you can review this here  :) - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=631891.msg63007012#msg63007012

You can actually do both at the same time as there will be no conflict if well manage. Like I said in my comment in one of the thread today, I know some people holding a big portfolio of Bitcoin that was bought with proceeds from trading Bitcoin futures. Their approach was to make money from trading and preserve the money in long term hodl.  They have been successful at doing that.

I know trading come with higher risk thereby requiring specialized skill. It is mastering this skill that unlock the opportunities of trading. For example, through trading, you can quickly turn small amount of money into something huge within a short period of time. This is not possible with holding. You can also loose this money within a blink of an eye through trading and this is not also possible with holding. Therefore, it is safe to say that the higher the risk, the higher the reward.

Well, when it's comes to this particular feeling of wanting to recover your loses I will agree that this particular trait is not only common to traders as it's even more common and done by gamblers and I know this cause I do gamble sometimes but I like to think not with my holdings because the true fact is that someone who plans in accumulating more coins through trading is actually planning to gamble his holdings because their is absolutely no certainty to this act. Trading is a very risky and anyone who feels he can accumulate his Bitcoin through this way is actually not ready to be a successful Bitcoin holder.

Trading is a business where you can see both profit and loss. Trading with proper market research has the potential to be profitable. Most of the traders lose in trading because they don't have enough knowledge about trading and most of the traders don't study the market to determine which direction the market might go due to which they suffer. Investing is a step ahead of trading, trading is done for short term while investing is usually done for long term. If you are not a patient person then investing is never for you. Investing will test your patience, if you fail the patience test then you will not get the expected profit from the investment but if you do not fail the patience test and if you can bear the risk and hold your investment for a long time then you will get successful from the investment.

My own experience also tells the same and I have never add single satoshi to my btc holding by trading. I saw many people claiming that they earned alot and increased their btc quantity while I lost all the time. Maybe there is something wrong in my trading strategies or I have not learned well yet. Trading results is totally uncertain and sometimes I lost a big amount in just matter of hours. Half of my btc holding down through trading and yes I agree that true holder of btc are only those who never used fund for trading and saved in their own wallet (cold or hot) for long term.

This is a very important point that we should pay attention to because no matter how much experience we have and no matter how smart we use analytical techniques and whatever it is, we still cannot be completely profitable in trading because sometimes this will actually make us lose in the end.
We can even see what happened to bitcoin trading in some news 2 today when bitcoin moved erratically how many people were liquidated due to trading.
Even looking at what happened in the last 24 hours even in some sites say a day ago there were about 39,335 traders who were liquidated for trading and today if you look at the liquidation heat map you can see how much money was burned there.
https://www.talkimg.com/images/2023/10/18/RgaVG.png
Source (https://www.coinglass.com/LiquidationData)

So in this case raises a belief in the end trading will be much more difficult and sooner or later if you are not careful in action something like this can happen to you.
In addition, it would be better to invest and hodl especially for bitcoin than to do risky trading and I choose this path because I don't want to take a bigger risk in trading so I prefer to hodl and hodl on the investments I make.

Part of the reason that DCA works so well in investing is that you can set your position size to such a level that you would not need to worry about if you have enough patience or not.

Of course, if you are lump summing into your investment, then there is more of a problematic nature for the impatient person to want to see positive returns.

Of course, if you start out with a decently small investing amount, even with DCA, and then over 5-10 years, you start to see that your investment is growing a lot, then surely the impatient person might end up cashing out based on either price movements or merely inabilities to defer gratification.

So I am not really sure if the lack of patience is the right way of describing the situation versus describing it as the marsh mellow test, and some people have difficulties deferring gratification.  I think that deference of gratification characteristics can be learned - however, it can sometimes be difficult to change someone who grew up in a certain way, and they almost need to be slapped around from the start in order to change their whole way of acting and their ways of thinking about their interactions with the world.

So, after I wrote all of this, I am starting to think that we might be saying similar things, and just using some different words.

That's why we have a nice, educational article about the topic now.  :)
Hopefully, many people will read our topic about the issue and be careful, when it comes to trading.


Nice, fast translation.
Well done.  :)
+1  :)

I've added it to my list and appreciate your effort very much.

Language	translated by	Title
___________________________	_____________________	_______________________________________________________________________
Bengali	Z_MBFM	ট্রেড Vs হোল্ড এর ফাঁদ এড়িয়ে চলুন (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=631891.msg63007012#msg63007012)

Even they have the same knowledge in trading, it's the reality that many don't see that in trading many of them losses.

While on this one, trading can also be done in long term but someone will see on how the words we say about it becomes into reality when they do it in actuality. Many traders chose the path of being a holder because it's so much better and easier. When I say easier, when you're able to see how risky both of them, you'll just be happy and sit to the side and HODL. And don't get it wrong when we say HODL, it's best done through Bitcoin even if the world tells you to buy this xx or that xx, don't always go with them because what works for them couldn't work for you. But what has proven to be working for everybody is to HOLD Bitcoin.

Trading and Hodling are two investment plans that don't mix and one (trading) is riskier than the other. Hodling might not totally guarantee the return on your investment but will also not suddenly put your money at so much risk to the point of losing everything suddenly. It's trading that has that attribute, and the more you think you want to recover your losses in trading, the more emotion sets in and you lose more money, that's trading for you and I'm a practical witness of this. Even those who claim to be the best managers of their portfolios in trading still succumb to their nature's emotions and lose their money over time. Trading is not as convenient as Hodling.

For this, it's better to know the distinctions between the two and prepare money due for them separately. Also, I advise lower money for trading and higher money for Hodling based on my experience. You might have your separate little funds for trading and other separate big funds for Hodling since the chance of making it with Hodling is higher than trading. And in case you want to increase the size of your Hodling for whatever reason, good luck with that, but you should never think you can take money from your Hodling to finance trading. It always ends in regrets.

Holding still stands tall amongst the ways to keep your Bitcoin safe. Trading is not for everyone and does not perfectly apply to every assets especially on daily basis, but most persons have failed to understand this and fallen for the trap of technical analysis (TA), especially amateurs whenever they get a good knowledge of technical analysis they get this strong adrenaline rush and want to exercise it on the market.

Trading consumes so much of emotional energy and sometimes exact some level of stress on your mental power and psychology but you can avoid all these simply by holding. I had a similar experience two years back after taking a paid course for TA, I came back feeling I've gat what it takes to conquer the market but from experience I can Say holding still remains the Best, but then it's important to know that holding comes with its challenges aswell especially when you are holding in a decentralized wallet, more often you may be tempted to sell of at the slightest upward movement of price and you may end up missing out (FOMO) in the bigger future.

According to me trading and holding are two different things because trading is for short term and investing or holding is for long term.Trading is a business where both profit and loss are faced.If you have a proper understanding of the market and do a good analysis of trading then you can get success in trading.And those who have no idea about trading definitely face losses.On the other hand, holding or investing requires a lot of patience and no one can hold or invest for a long period of time.

Investing and trading are definitely two different things, as you mentioned here there is a possibility of profit and loss in trading, not only in trading there is a possibility of profit and loss but also in investment there is a possibility of profit and loss. Don't you think people who have no idea about investing can lose their money if they invest? An inexperienced person will make mistakes in selecting good coins to invest in as he has no idea about any coin. If a new investor invests in an altcoin in a long-term investment plan, he will lose his money. Investing requires us to risk money but we will risk money on a coin where our return is the most likely. If a long term investment is to be made then it should be done in Bitcoin because investing in Bitcoin will give you the power to be patient for a long time and you will get enough confidence in investing in Bitcoin which is not applicable to altcoin.  

Trading is a bit like gambling, in gambling you win a day or two and in that greed you gamble with more money the next day but the next day you lose your gamble and lose all the money. We see the same in the case of trading, if we start trading with a small amount of money, maybe we can make some money in the first two trades, and that profit gives us enough confidence, then we trust and trade with a large amount of money, then we see this huge loss in our trading.  
So taking money risk must be taken for a long period of time in investments that can give you a big change in your money.

Both trading and Holding aren't easy, we can't say that Hodling your Bitcoin is the best when the person holding isn't making money somehow, when you are jobless holding will be the most difficult thing to expose yourself to, because it's just not going to work, you gotta eat and live and this will also make you panic about the market situations, there will be fear fully living in your lungs because, you invest something you should have use to survive instead of investing, so all your mind will be on the money you use for investment.

Trading is full of risks, either you are broke, jobless or have some good source of income, you can keep losing everything you've ever worked for, so with trading you don't just need only money, you need to build your skills to a certain stage to be able to start making money from trading.

I found Bitcoin holding or holding in general to be more easier if you have other source of income that will settle all your life responsibility, there is no other skills required to hold than using the right crypto wallet to store your assets and keep the private key safe.

In trading, there is not only profit but also loss.It can be seen that many people take trades without understanding and then they lose.There is a lot of risk involved in trading and everyone should trade with this in mind.Emotion and patience are most important in trading.You cannot succeed in trading if you do not have passion or patience.Trading and holding is not easy. Doing these requires a lot of experience and research, otherwise it is a waste of money.Trading is of different types like spot trading, futures trading.Trading means buying something and selling it when the price rises and usually not for too long.Holding on the other hand is for a long period of time like you buy bitcoins at a low price and hold them for a long time to sell them at a higher price.

Of course, I agree with your opinion that holding Bitcoin for the long term is easier than short-term trading if you have a complete means of survival and a source of income. It means that you should have spears of money for holding, which cannot endanger your life by losing it.

If this case is seen from the perspective of efforts, although both of them are profitable, short-term trading requires continuous monitoring, technical + fundamental analysis, and high risk tolerance measures. While others have to put less in the holding. Apart from this, my wife's opinion is also in favour of long-term holding, and the reason for this is that if you look at the people who are connected to cryptocurrency in the whole world, the majority of them are investing in Bitcoin or holding long-term. So this is the reason why holding in Bitcoin is a perfect thing that does not require much effort or awareness as required for trading.

And what's more, even a common man can earn a profit from it if he knows a little bit about Bitcoin. And the reason for this is that the people who invested in Bitcoin in the early days, without any hesitation, took out their good profits in the ATH of Bitcoin. Therefore, the profit from the holding can be easily earned if the entry is made in the perfect time period.

You seem to be mixing up your concepts, GbitG.

sure there is short term trading and there is even trading upon BIGGER swings, but it is not necessarily true that the earlier adopters of bitcoin took out much of any of their profits at various ATHs along the way, and they reason that they did not necessarily take out all of their bitcoin varies from case to case including that it has likely even been more profitable to ONLY take out small amounts of bitcoin along the way, rather than getting in and out of bitcoin or even valuing your wealth in something other than bitcoin which is part of the presumption that you believe that you can predict an ATH to be some kind of permanent place in which a bitcoin holder should get out of bitcoin.  There were ATHs at $32, $263, $1,163, $19,666 and $69,000, and ONLY the BTC HODLer selling all of his/her BTC at the latest ATH would be in a better place in terms of dollars at this point, and surely getting in and out is likely not even a good mindset.

Let's say make a couple of examples of hypothetical long time HODLers that have been in bitcoin for at least 1.5 cycles (6 years) and the other 2.5 cycles (10 years).

The first hypothetical one (who got in 6 years ago in 2017-ish) might have an average cost per BTC around $10k and accumulated 5 BTC, and surely the dollar value of his/her BTC would have been up and down during the last volatility up to $69k and then back down to $15,479 and then back up to our current prices, but s/he might also be much better off to continue to hold his/her BTC and accumulate BTC throughout the past few years rather than trying to figure out when to sell the BTC and when to get back in.

The same is true for the second hypothetical one (who got in 10 years ago in 2013-ish) who has a $1k average per BTC and sure maybe s/he has accumulated more than 50 BTC through the years, but I doubt that we can really proclaim that s/he would have had been better off financially and/or psychologically to try to figure out when was the top and when to buy back rather than just continuing to stack sats if s/he remains uncertain about whether 50 BTC is enough for his/her own personal financial situation.

And of course, there are a lot of variations of these hypothetical longer term bitcoiners that could be imagined including that it is much easier to try to proclaim that any of the longer term bitcoiners would have had been better off to try to trade the BIG swings of BTC prices rather than the more practical approach of largely riding out the waves, continuing to try to accumulate more BTC along the way with a bit of persistence until s/he reaches a quantity of BTC that s/he believes to be enough or to be more than enough in order that some of the extra BTC might be shaved off at various points along the way because such person has accumulated more than enough BTC.

If you are holding BTC and then unemployed because you are not working and not earning a steady income, why invest? In the end, you will know that the investment will be hampered due to the pressure of living needs because you are not working or let alone preparing an emergency fund, we must plan that investment is not just a lust just because of profit but think about other factors, whether from monthly income can cover a month, whether after that there is money left over, if there is then and can invest in this way. Not putting all the money in bitcoin while other needs are ignored, it is clear that this plan will not be in line.

Trading is full of risks compared to holding that there is no big risk, trading requires a lot of skills you need everything you need - analysis - charts, market sentiment - news - fundamentals - emotions - risk management - mind.

I'm not good at trading so it's better to be a BTC holder just - hold - be patient - ignore the market if your investment is still early.

Having another source of income is important then you can increase your investment into BTC, while the need then it should be fulfilled from your monthly income from real work as usual then this will be more stable than just relying on arrivals alone.

What you have explained is quite accurate where the sustainability of the investment will run according to the income we get in a month. Apart from that, I think that if they don't have a fixed monthly income, it will be difficult to invest in the long term because if they need money for their living needs. They will have to sell their BTC holdings, which will not be in accordance with the initial plans they have made.

Yes, buy and hold are the first words that come to someone's mind, but if it is not accompanied by strong belief and supported by patience then they will not be able to do it. People who have been successful in long-term investments certainly have a strong enough mentality to deal with all the obstacles that occur in their investment planning.

I want to request for the translation of this topic to my local board naija board pidgin language.
 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5436296.0

HODLing is a good practice I will say besides  BTC has been making a good change over the days but aren't we taking a peep in low funds hodl does it make sense to do that , we all know the outcomes for such scenarios,it's always low.  

Hello  :)

A translation for our local naija board would be very nice to have.
I hereby give you a permission to translate my topic and I've reserved your translation in my OP:

Language	translated by	Title
___________________________	_____________________	_______________________________________________________________________
Nigeria (Naija)	Chilwell (reserved)	reserved (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5436296.msg63066402#msg63066402)

Trade vs. HODL is a very important issue to make aware of.  :)

It won't only go against the initial plan but it can also be the reason for loss if they need to sell their assets in an emergency at a time when the market is lower than the position when they bought which means they will have to sell them for less money than they had invested initially which isn't good and no one would want that to happen. That's why, it's essential for someone to make sure that they have a kitchen income before they invest any money into Bitcoin or cryptocurrencies because the market moves in a cycle and there is no specific timeframe for it to go up or down.

Some people might think that the market will go down after a specific amount of years or months and then go up again in the same way but that doesn't always happen in the same way, there can be delays and a bear market can always be extended due to unfortunate events in the industry or some bad piece of news.

Trading is basically a risk full business where most of the time people lose their money, very few people can earn by trading. Those who have a lot of knowledge about the market can only make good amount of money by trading and those who have little knowledge can never make high profit by trading but face losses. Moreover, investing or holding is the best course of action as compared to trading as it has less risk and security and hopes for future gains. However, investing in altcoins has the potential to incur various losses, so one should never invest and hold without being fully informed. Also, you better stay away from altcoins and hold by investing in bitcoins, and investing in bitcoins is never risky. Controlling your emotions in investing and holding is the most important thing to be patient and not to get emotional as the fund loses value when investing due to market volatility. A person who invests for long term must hold for a long time, but he can expect high returns.

There is both profit and loss in trading, while investing you will not only gain but also have the possibility of loss. But now I think Bitcoin investing is not so risky. But investing is much less risky than trading. Especially those who want to make a quick profit choose trading and lose by making wrong trades. There are also many people who invest in Bitcoin but get disappointed when they see the market down a little, they should not be disappointed, they have to keep their minds strong and hold for a long time. Of course holding Bitcoin for a long time has the potential to earn good profits. Those who are not professional traders and do not have a good understand of the market, should follow the DCA method and invest in Bitcoin for a long time.

I myself traded and lost. One of the reasons was that I didn't know about the market, I didn't know much about trading, I wanted to make a quick profit. However I finally took a break from trading Bitcoin. I realized trading is not for everyone but investing is for everyone. I have invested in Bitcoin, I will hold it for a long time. Investing in Bitcoin is definitely better and risk free than trading.

Common sense trading does require a lot of skills, not just wanting to trade and doing it by feeling without knowing what you're doing is right or wrong.

In reality, beginners will not pay attention to some of the skills needed in trading.
They are just consumed by FOMO when Bitcoin hype and reaches a new ATH.
They try to trade and end up losing their money and blame it on the fact that trading is detrimental, even though they themselves do not know the knowledge.

Being a holder for those who have high patience will be better.
But it must also be supported by quite a lot of funds to get more profit as well.
But if you become a Bitcoin holder when Bitcoin is below the price of $100, it is a gift, and become a rich man if you hold it now.

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Hi @1miau
Great topic to discuss on my local board.
I would like to do a translation of this topic to my local language Indonesia and post it on the Indonesian Local Board.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=191.0

This is not particularly true as some investors are real-time survivors too, they fight to the last and will only take money from their investments as the last resort. So, I see this differently from yours, you are right in a sense but it doesn't apply generally. Some people would never have invested if they followed your view as an excuse. You do not have to be employed before you invest, if you have the money, do it, it's for your own good. People do it and deny themselves many things to achieve the goal, life goes on and they have a hopeful future with the investment, especially with a very promising one like BTC and landed property.

Personally, I can count a few people I know who either lost their job, didn't have a serious job (off and on) or are challenged one way or the other that are big-time investors. Buying assets is like owning a property, are you now telling me that you must sell your house simply because you are not employed/ lot a job? As you own the property/asset, you get to face your life as though you never owned it, that's the rule. What if you do not have the property/investment and you are still unemployed, will you not live one way or another (friends, family, menial jobs etc) till you fix yourself?

This is the spirit and psychology of some unemployed investors and I don't only know some of them in person but also respect them for that.

Thank you so much for giving a careful learning process to help newbies like us out of some misconceptions. I am with Bitcoin HODLing Learned about the details before but achieved perfection through this and it is a long term plan and profitable process.We hear a lot about the benefits of trading but many of us do not know the failure stories behind them and having such an advantage at a low risk will help us lot.it is also clear that there are technically profitable ways to do this, I have heard As it is proven then help us to work reliably in the days to come and I want a long term profit and you all say patience is needed here we admit it Kari has been patient actually we are not catching we are just expecting a lot of a profit so we are failing so I am HODLing Who will choose and try to follow the advice of experience.This article will help me in many days to come so thanks again and hope to write more on such important topics.

You have presented trade vs hold very well here. Trading from hold is more risky. I don't really compare the two because I'm involved in both types. I trade one day at a time in a certain environment. I am involved in both holding and trading. If you trade and hold correctly you will profit from both. Currently we are leaning more towards trading in the hope of short term gains. As Bitcoin is an important currency one should hold and trade very cautiously.

Trading shouldn't be something that should be advised that newbies should go into. Majority of traders run at loss because it is hard to predict bitcoin price movement correctly, and trading involves so many skills and charts stuffs that will make one so stressed up when trying to beat the market. The fact remains that, there is no amount of profit that a trader will make that will be as big as what he will make when a hodli for long because bitcoin value increases with timeline.

Trading is for people that are after little profit and only after today, while hodlers are people that invest for their old age when they will no longer be strong to work. Professional traders run at loss but a newbie hodler will not run at loss when he investment in a long term and increase his bitcoin porfolio with regular DCA. As for me I see trading as a waste of time because you might think that you will make profit but end up running at loss. Bitcoin investment is not for short time gains because the market might not move in your favor and there are some wrong decisions that you will make as a trader that you will end up living to regret. Just Hodli and save your investment from loss.

You have spoken well. I believe as a newbie there are less amount of asset in the portfolio or more and it will be bad to lose them because of lack of knowledge and ignorance to listen to experienced persons. The hardest part for a newbie is trying to figure out a way to enter the market and trading is never a good start. Instead of trading they should rather start investing gradually to accumulate a good amount first. One thing that affects most newbie is greed. The anxiety to make profit immediately they know about Bitcoin, that is why they mostly go for trading. If only they can take some time to learn better about Bitcoin before going into it in a haste and at the end, they will understand that Bitcoin works better when you invest and hodl for decades. The plan should be not to panic and don't put anything that you're not willing to lose and hodl while do more research for learning purpose.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5472611.0

I translated your post into Turkish, sorry I didn’t make a request first. :(

Of course, I'm looking forward to your translation.
You can link it here, when it's ready.  :)

I've reserved the Indonesian translation for you:

Language	translated by	Title
___________________________	_____________________	_______________________________________________________________________
Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian)	Taufik123	reserved (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5436296.msg63087039#msg63087039)

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No problem, it's added now.  :)

Language	translated by	Title
___________________________	_____________________	_______________________________________________________________________
Türkçe (Turkish)	mindrust	Al-sat vs. HODL - tuzaklara kanmayın (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5472611.0)

+1 for your translation.  :)

Thanks @1miau, I'll work on it soon and post it when it's done.
It may take a few hours or see how my free time goes.

Thanks again for letting me translate your thread.

Therefore, beginners often ignore what is needed in trading, when FOMO comes of course they want to enter and hope to get a profit in the trade they are doing, not a few are many failures because beginners are not ready in terms of skills and knowledge, so when I am not ready to trade, I will never do it before the skills are qualified.

Patience must be practiced while holding btc, but I'm sure many of us have strong patience for HODL btc.
Regarding funds that must be sufficient, it is important, otherwise investing in btc and holding will become a mess if there is no emergency fund, everything must be prepared so that what is held in BTC is not disturbed by other needs.
I was not an old holder when the bitcoin price was $100, but I still believe that if I hold bitcoin now for the next 5 years it will be valuable in the coming years, so now it is stronger for HODL.

A few days, even a couple of weeks would still be fine to do your translation.
No need to hurry, I've listed your language (Turkish) as reserved in my overview and you can provide your translation how it's convenient for you.
When you are done, you can announce it in my topic.  :)

For sure ongoing buying is another kind of behavior that should be considered, and HODL might not be enough, and surely trading might be attempted prior to accumulating a very large bitcoin holdings, which might screw up BTC accumulation and even screw up HODLing mentality.. so ongoing BTC accumulation seems to be a great practice for anyone who wants to reinforce HODL ideas and HODL practices, and also ongoing BTC accumulation likely needs some kind of an accumulation target, so if cashflow is continuing to come in from various jobs, it seems necessary to be considering ongoing ways to buy that might involve DCA, buying on dip and lump sum buying, and if BTC accumulation is the goal, then it seems that there is no need to muddy thinking by considering times to sell (or trade) prior to reaching a sufficiently large enough BTC stash in which maybe it might be justified to play around with less than 10% of it.

Of course, sustainable purchases are a good practice even with 1 time HODL is not enough, we will not be able to buy bitcoin at once with a large amount and then HODL, still what is needed is accumulation over time if not done then the btc savings will not be large, therefore the practice of accumulation by means of DCA is a practice that must remain sustainable.

Therefore, I myself do not want to mess up the ongoing HODLing, therefore trading is put aside, I don't even care if some friends profit from trading maybe it will only be for a moment but I make sure to stay strong in mentality with these temptations and will remain focused on DCA accumulation and then HODL all the time as a plan from the beginning before starting investment in BTC.

If for example I think of two things between trading and accumulation, the thinking will be heavier and heavier and the cash flow will be more and more irregular because it is divided by two plans, if trading has a loss then it will be a regret, when HODL the price drops just wait and you will not lose.

Both trading and holding are very risky and after accepting this risk you have to trade or hold. I won't compare trading with holding because I think they have different purposes. By holding we mean keeping our investment for a long time. A strong minded person and a person with enough patience can make such a hold. Holding a coin for a long period of time shows that many times the price of the coin goes down a lot due to market volatility or the price of the coin goes up a bit when the market is somewhat positive but a true holder will never get excited at that time rather he will wait for better times. Long-term holders have their own targets. They always think of holding their investments for a long time within a specific target. A long-term holder's mindset is such that he never sells the investments he has taken in his long-term plan, no matter how much money he needs. Mainly because of these things there is a lot of difference between trading and holding. 

I am a bitcoin holder and I hold my investment in long term plan but I do short term trading besides holding bitcoin in long term plan. If I make some money by short term trading I add a part of that profit to my long term investment thereby holding my investment on one hand and on the other hand I make some money by trading that is why I never compare trading and holding.  no

I am done with the translation of this wonderful topic to my local board naija, "pidgin language" here is the link to the translation https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5472826.msg63103736#msg63103736
For the update of the list.

As part of the AOBT translations, I'm proposing the translation of your topic in French language. :)

Don't hesitate to let me know if something doesn't seem right.

Trade vs. HODL - Évitez les pièges (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5472841.0)

Translating the thread into Indonesian has been completed.
You can see it here

Trading Vs HODL - Menghindari Jebakan (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5472840)

Trading is risky than holding of Bitcoin, which is trading you can make profits and after sometime get lost in the trading, because of technical analysis or fundamental analysis before entry point mistake, which most trader normally makes, in other side of holding is more saved and have rest of mind and only depreciating in value and also recover back and even add value with being doing anything as a Bitcoin holder and patience is the key to success in the business.

+1
Nice to have your translation. I've updated my list and your translation is now included.
I hope, many people will get informaed about Trade vs. HODL on your local board.  :)

Language	translated by	Title
___________________________	_____________________	_______________________________________________________________________
Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian)	Taufik123	Trading Vs HODL - Menghindari Jebakan (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5472840.0)

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+1
French tanslation is nice to have as well, I've added it on my list:

Language	translated by	Title
___________________________	_____________________	_______________________________________________________________________
Français (French)	iwantmyhomepaidwithbtc2	Trade vs. HODL - Évitez les pièges (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5472841.0)

Thank you very much for presenting my topic on your local board.  :)

---

It's included in my list, well done once again.

Language	translated by	Title
___________________________	_____________________	_______________________________________________________________________
Nigeria (Naija)	Chilwell	Trade vs. HODL - avoid traps (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5472826.0)

Now, people on your local board can read about Trade vs. HODL, too.   ;)

Hi @1miau

This topis is very important and knowledgeable and I take a permission to translate this topic in my local thread Pakistan (Urdu language).

Hey @1miau

I am Nalain420 from Arabic board. I have noticed that your beneficial and important topics did not translate in Arabic local borad which should necessarily be translated into local borad so people can easily read these topics

May I requested to you translate this topic in our community (Arabic language)

Hello, you two.  :)

Yes, of course, your languages are still available.
I've approved your translations and it's now officially reserved for you:

Language	translated by	Title
___________________________	_________________________	_______________________________________________________________________
Arabic	Nalain420 (reserved)	reserved (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5436296.msg63115546#msg63115546)
Pakistan (Urdu)	Compromise me (reserved)	reserved (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5436296.msg63114093#msg63114093)

When your translation is done, you can leave a comment here once again and I'll add it to my list.  :)

I have complete translation of this useful topic into my local board "Arabic language"

Here is the link of Translation in Arabic community: التجارة مقابل HODL - تجنب الفخاخ (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5473198.0)

Thanks @1miau giving me a chance for translate your topic

Thanks @1miau for giving me this opportunity to translate this important and knowledgeable topic in Urdu language in local thread (Pakistan)

Here is my translation in Urdu language(link): https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=232519.msg63121028#msg63121028

Hodling is less risky to the extent that plenty bitcoiners chose to hodl over trading due to the technicalities and trading skills necessary to acquire if you wanna be a profitable trader, although some investors can't hold on waiting alone on bitcoin price to increase in value when there's a bull run for them to make profit they add trading and holding together, while they make profits from trading based on their trading knowledge they also make profit when a bullrun takes over. Do this doesn't guarantee you making success as you can attract losses to your portfolio if you are not sufficiently brilliant with doing the two simultaneously.

Hello  :)



Your translations have been approved and are added to my list now:

Language	translated by	Title
___________________________	_________________________	_______________________________________________________________________
Arabic	Nalain420	التجارة مقابل HODL - تجنب الفخاخ (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5473198.0)
Pakistan (Urdu)	Compromise me	تجارت بمقابلہ HODL - پھندوں سے بچیں۔ (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=232519.msg63121028#msg63121028)

Your effort is much appreciated.  :)
Now, everyone on your local board will know about Trade vs. HODL (hopefully).  ;)

Most of the time I wasted in trading, Just imagine I put those time and funds I lose from. Trading I put it all on holding (long-term) they would have been big difference in me now. Because I started trading without even knowing the risk that's attached to it, I thought was something I can easily manage. The end up that the more I try the more my losses so I decided to put some breaks. Now all I do is just hodl have been making more profit with lesser losses mostly this time around that every where it's greens. So I'm happy glad I can see the beauty of holding even though it's still has its own risks attached to it but as long is Bitcoin I'm stress free.
 

I want to say one thing to the newbies, don't take any decision in haste. There is a lot to learn inside your trades and holds that you have to learn slowly. Whether you trade or hold there are many strategies to be applied otherwise you will never be able to trade profitably and to hold you must go into a long term process otherwise you will not profit by holding. Your price will increase slowly during this time if you can't be patient then holding won't make any profit. From my experience I can say holding is much more profitable than trading.

Trading is a very difficult task Compare to holding for a long time. I have tried couples of time to make profit from trading but all to no avail. Its either I buy when the market is about to decline or sell when the market is trying to gain. Sometimes I buy and it appreciate like %10 instead of me to sell I will want to make more profit before the two twinkle of an eye it will fall from Green to red like -15 and I will panic and sell before it will fall below. And when I sell imidiately it will climb +15 after I might have loose some fund. So I decided that I will no longer be trading rather invest in Bitcoin and hold to keep my mind stress free. In other not to be loosing funds.

So to me I think holding Bitcoin is the best and safest way to benefit from crypto currency.

Whether we are newbies or not, we need to learn how to hold and invest in the cryptocurrency market whether we intend to invest in Bitcoin or altcoins, we need to be very careful when making decisions. Crypto market is huge and versatile and we need to be able to interpret the market for us analyse and make decisions on when we want to invest and take profits. Profits making is a good reason why we are in the crypto market just like the price of tokens do increase and decrease for us to buy at a lower price.

Trading can fuck with you if you're getting it wrong, it's advisable for someone starting new in the space and looking to profit from the market to Hodl, else you will dash your money to the market, I highly encourage newbies to start with holding and if they care about trading, then they should learn, gain experience before starting their trading journey, it a games that really requires one's experience to succeed and not only about knowing the support and resistance, market structure etc.

   In using the technical analysis in trading you have to study and understand it porderly before using it .

 The technical analysis of cryptocurrencies is an opening  In the direction to determine the current crypto market unexpected change and identifying market . In technical analysis the price patterns is being thought of from the past and the technical indicator to study the chart closely and carefully and predict the future movements of price.

 In trading there are two major contributors, which are the Hodlers (those who buy the Bitcoin without having reasons to sell for several years), and the Traders (these are people who buy Bitcoin wanting to sell it immediately at any profit ) .
  
   When you understand technical analysis and are able to do it right ,it helps you accurately to know the lows and highs of Bitcoin prices across various periods of time, that act of saying or knowing what will happen in future will help you make educative ,data-driven decisions on buying Bitcoin in a good price and selling at a profitable price also.

Holding is often the easiest when it comes to cryptocurrency; trading is more difficult. However, trading requires reading, learning, and even personal risk; in contrast, holding simply involves buying something and leaving it there. As opposed to trading, which involves numerous calculations and a lot of planning. Dos are the holders' methods of buying when the market is low and selling when it is high. Some will not sell because they will continue to wait and watch to see whether the market rises. And i would not advise that because eventually if the price goes down then both profit and capital might be affected because of price. The way the market goes up down is funny especially for traders after analysis the result you will see will be different.

Don't confuse investing and trading as they are different. Most of the investors usually invest in a long term plan but most of the traders only trade for some temporary profit. If an investor after investing, if the value of his coin increases a little and if he sees some profit and if he sees some profit if he sells his investment, then the mind of that investor should be understood like that of a trader. Some temporary gain or loss may not affect an investor to hold or sell his investment but rather they try to hold their investment for a long time considering both the gain and loss. A trader does this that when he gets some profit he sells his coins and waits to take another trade his main goal here is to make a temporary profit. Considering this, it can be said very simply that trading and investing are two completely different things.