Trade vs. HODL - avoid traps

[1miau]

And even if we do trading "right" (according to technical analysis), it's not a guarantee for any win. Because if we would have a trading program, which is trading exactly a technical analysis trading strategy, to generate profits, it simply doesn't exist. Because no (day) trading strategy is reliable long-term. We can make some profits due to luck but that doesn't mean that it's a reliable strategy.
If there would be a reliable trading strategy, someone would have coded an application already to make it an automated trading strategy - but such a technical analysis trading strategy doesn't exist.

Yes, this is a completely logical thought. But this is not understood by everyone because everyone is concerned about getting something instant.

That's why we have a nice, educational article about the topic now.  
Hopefully, many people will read our topic about the issue and be careful, when it comes to trading.

Thanks for your permission. this topic has been translated in my Bangali Language. you can review this here   - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=631891.msg63007012#msg63007012

Nice, fast translation.
Well done.  
+1  

I've added it to my list and appreciate your effort very much.

Language	translated by	Title
___________________________	_____________________	_______________________________________________________________________
Bengali	Z_MBFM	ট্রেড Vs হোল্ড এর ফাঁদ এড়িয়ে চলুন

[1714607179]

1714607179

[1714607179]

1714607179

[1714607179]

1714607179

[1714607179]

1714607179

[tabas]

Trading is a business where you can see both profit and loss. Trading with proper market research has the potential to be profitable. Most of the traders lose in trading because they don't have enough knowledge about trading and most of the traders don't study the market to determine which direction the market might go due to which they suffer.

Even they have the same knowledge in trading, it's the reality that many don't see that in trading many of them losses.

Investing is a step ahead of trading, trading is done for short term while investing is usually done for long term. If you are not a patient person then investing is never for you. Investing will test your patience, if you fail the patience test then you will not get the expected profit from the investment but if you do not fail the patience test and if you can bear the risk and hold your investment for a long time then you will get successful from the investment.

While on this one, trading can also be done in long term but someone will see on how the words we say about it becomes into reality when they do it in actuality. Many traders chose the path of being a holder because it's so much better and easier. When I say easier, when you're able to see how risky both of them, you'll just be happy and sit to the side and HODL. And don't get it wrong when we say HODL, it's best done through Bitcoin even if the world tells you to buy this xx or that xx, don't always go with them because what works for them couldn't work for you. But what has proven to be working for everybody is to HOLD Bitcoin.

[EarnOnVictor]

Just as you have said, JayJuanGee, some people think trading is the best way to increase their holdings, so they go ahead and mess with their bitcoin, which is not a safe thing to do. Some one who want to trade instead, can leave their initial holding and possibly invest a different amount of funds specifically for trading; I think it is better to do so than trade with their Bitcoin holding. There is always this bad feeling after losing a big sum in trading—that feeling of wanting to recover the lost coin already and, in the process, ending up losing everything again. so it's just better to hold one's coin in a self-costodial wallet.

Well, when it's comes to this particular feeling of wanting to recover your loses I will agree that this particular trait is not only common to traders as it's even more common and done by gamblers and I know this cause I do gamble sometimes but I like to think not with my holdings because the true fact is that someone who plans in accumulating more coins through trading is actually planning to gamble his holdings because their is absolutely no certainty to this act. Trading is a very risky and anyone who feels he can accumulate his Bitcoin through this way is actually not ready to be a successful Bitcoin holder.

Trading and Hodling are two investment plans that don't mix and one (trading) is riskier than the other. Hodling might not totally guarantee the return on your investment but will also not suddenly put your money at so much risk to the point of losing everything suddenly. It's trading that has that attribute, and the more you think you want to recover your losses in trading, the more emotion sets in and you lose more money, that's trading for you and I'm a practical witness of this. Even those who claim to be the best managers of their portfolios in trading still succumb to their nature's emotions and lose their money over time. Trading is not as convenient as Hodling.

For this, it's better to know the distinctions between the two and prepare money due for them separately. Also, I advise lower money for trading and higher money for Hodling based on my experience. You might have your separate little funds for trading and other separate big funds for Hodling since the chance of making it with Hodling is higher than trading. And in case you want to increase the size of your Hodling for whatever reason, good luck with that, but you should never think you can take money from your Hodling to finance trading. It always ends in regrets.

[Zigabel]

Holding still stands tall amongst the ways to keep your Bitcoin safe. Trading is not for everyone and does not perfectly apply to every assets especially on daily basis, but most persons have failed to understand this and fallen for the trap of technical analysis (TA), especially amateurs whenever they get a good knowledge of technical analysis they get this strong adrenaline rush and want to exercise it on the market.

Trading consumes so much of emotional energy and sometimes exact some level of stress on your mental power and psychology but you can avoid all these simply by holding. I had a similar experience two years back after taking a paid course for TA, I came back feeling I've gat what it takes to conquer the market but from experience I can Say holding still remains the Best, but then it's important to know that holding comes with its challenges aswell especially when you are holding in a decentralized wallet, more often you may be tempted to sell of at the slightest upward movement of price and you may end up missing out (FOMO) in the bigger future.

[Bitcoin Halving]

According to me trading and holding are two different things because trading is for short term and investing or holding is for long term.Trading is a business where both profit and loss are faced.If you have a proper understanding of the market and do a good analysis of trading then you can get success in trading.And those who have no idea about trading definitely face losses.On the other hand, holding or investing requires a lot of patience and no one can hold or invest for a long period of time.

[Patrol69]

According to me trading and holding are two different things because trading is for short term and investing or holding is for long term.Trading is a business where both profit and loss are faced.If you have a proper understanding of the market and do a good analysis of trading then you can get success in trading.And those who have no idea about trading definitely face losses.On the other hand, holding or investing requires a lot of patience and no one can hold or invest for a long period of time.

Investing and trading are definitely two different things, as you mentioned here there is a possibility of profit and loss in trading, not only in trading there is a possibility of profit and loss but also in investment there is a possibility of profit and loss. Don't you think people who have no idea about investing can lose their money if they invest? An inexperienced person will make mistakes in selecting good coins to invest in as he has no idea about any coin. If a new investor invests in an altcoin in a long-term investment plan, he will lose his money. Investing requires us to risk money but we will risk money on a coin where our return is the most likely. If a long term investment is to be made then it should be done in Bitcoin because investing in Bitcoin will give you the power to be patient for a long time and you will get enough confidence in investing in Bitcoin which is not applicable to altcoin.  

Trading is a bit like gambling, in gambling you win a day or two and in that greed you gamble with more money the next day but the next day you lose your gamble and lose all the money. We see the same in the case of trading, if we start trading with a small amount of money, maybe we can make some money in the first two trades, and that profit gives us enough confidence, then we trust and trade with a large amount of money, then we see this huge loss in our trading.  
So taking money risk must be taken for a long period of time in investments that can give you a big change in your money.

[Z390]

Both trading and Holding aren't easy, we can't say that Hodling your Bitcoin is the best when the person holding isn't making money somehow, when you are jobless holding will be the most difficult thing to expose yourself to, because it's just not going to work, you gotta eat and live and this will also make you panic about the market situations, there will be fear fully living in your lungs because, you invest something you should have use to survive instead of investing, so all your mind will be on the money you use for investment.

Trading is full of risks, either you are broke, jobless or have some good source of income, you can keep losing everything you've ever worked for, so with trading you don't just need only money, you need to build your skills to a certain stage to be able to start making money from trading.

I found Bitcoin holding or holding in general to be more easier if you have other source of income that will settle all your life responsibility, there is no other skills required to hold than using the right crypto wallet to store your assets and keep the private key safe.

[cryptoWODL]

Trading is a business where you can see both profit and loss. Trading with proper market research has the potential to be profitable. Most of the traders lose in trading because they don't have enough knowledge about trading and most of the traders don't study the market to determine which direction the market might go due to which they suffer. Investing is a step ahead of trading, trading is done for short term while investing is usually done for long term. If you are not a patient person then investing is never for you. Investing will test your patience, if you fail the patience test then you will not get the expected profit from the investment but if you do not fail the patience test and if you can bear the risk and hold your investment for a long time then you will get successful from the investment.

In trading, there is not only profit but also loss.It can be seen that many people take trades without understanding and then they lose.There is a lot of risk involved in trading and everyone should trade with this in mind.Emotion and patience are most important in trading.You cannot succeed in trading if you do not have passion or patience.Trading and holding is not easy. Doing these requires a lot of experience and research, otherwise it is a waste of money.Trading is of different types like spot trading, futures trading.Trading means buying something and selling it when the price rises and usually not for too long.Holding on the other hand is for a long period of time like you buy bitcoins at a low price and hold them for a long time to sell them at a higher price.

[GbitG]

I found Bitcoin holding or holding in general to be more easier if you have other source of income that will settle all your life responsibility, there is no other skills required to hold than using the right crypto wallet to store your assets and keep the private key safe.

Of course, I agree with your opinion that holding Bitcoin for the long term is easier than short-term trading if you have a complete means of survival and a source of income. It means that you should have spears of money for holding, which cannot endanger your life by losing it.

If this case is seen from the perspective of efforts, although both of them are profitable, short-term trading requires continuous monitoring, technical + fundamental analysis, and high risk tolerance measures. While others have to put less in the holding. Apart from this, my wife's opinion is also in favour of long-term holding, and the reason for this is that if you look at the people who are connected to cryptocurrency in the whole world, the majority of them are investing in Bitcoin or holding long-term. So this is the reason why holding in Bitcoin is a perfect thing that does not require much effort or awareness as required for trading.

And what's more, even a common man can earn a profit from it if he knows a little bit about Bitcoin. And the reason for this is that the people who invested in Bitcoin in the early days, without any hesitation, took out their good profits in the ATH of Bitcoin. Therefore, the profit from the holding can be easily earned if the entry is made in the perfect time period.

[JayJuanGee]

I found Bitcoin holding or holding in general to be more easier if you have other source of income that will settle all your life responsibility, there is no other skills required to hold than using the right crypto wallet to store your assets and keep the private key safe.

Of course, I agree with your opinion that holding Bitcoin for the long term is easier than short-term trading if you have a complete means of survival and a source of income. It means that you should have spears of money for holding, which cannot endanger your life by losing it.

If this case is seen from the perspective of efforts, although both of them are profitable, short-term trading requires continuous monitoring, technical + fundamental analysis, and high risk tolerance measures. While others have to put less in the holding. Apart from this, my wife's opinion is also in favour of long-term holding, and the reason for this is that if you look at the people who are connected to cryptocurrency in the whole world, the majority of them are investing in Bitcoin or holding long-term. So this is the reason why holding in Bitcoin is a perfect thing that does not require much effort or awareness as required for trading.

And what's more, even a common man can earn a profit from it if he knows a little bit about Bitcoin. And the reason for this is that the people who invested in Bitcoin in the early days, without any hesitation, took out their good profits in the ATH of Bitcoin. Therefore, the profit from the holding can be easily earned if the entry is made in the perfect time period.

You seem to be mixing up your concepts, GbitG.

sure there is short term trading and there is even trading upon BIGGER swings, but it is not necessarily true that the earlier adopters of bitcoin took out much of any of their profits at various ATHs along the way, and they reason that they did not necessarily take out all of their bitcoin varies from case to case including that it has likely even been more profitable to ONLY take out small amounts of bitcoin along the way, rather than getting in and out of bitcoin or even valuing your wealth in something other than bitcoin which is part of the presumption that you believe that you can predict an ATH to be some kind of permanent place in which a bitcoin holder should get out of bitcoin.  There were ATHs at $32, $263, $1,163, $19,666 and $69,000, and ONLY the BTC HODLer selling all of his/her BTC at the latest ATH would be in a better place in terms of dollars at this point, and surely getting in and out is likely not even a good mindset.

Let's say make a couple of examples of hypothetical long time HODLers that have been in bitcoin for at least 1.5 cycles (6 years) and the other 2.5 cycles (10 years).

The first hypothetical one (who got in 6 years ago in 2017-ish) might have an average cost per BTC around $10k and accumulated 5 BTC, and surely the dollar value of his/her BTC would have been up and down during the last volatility up to $69k and then back down to $15,479 and then back up to our current prices, but s/he might also be much better off to continue to hold his/her BTC and accumulate BTC throughout the past few years rather than trying to figure out when to sell the BTC and when to get back in.

The same is true for the second hypothetical one (who got in 10 years ago in 2013-ish) who has a $1k average per BTC and sure maybe s/he has accumulated more than 50 BTC through the years, but I doubt that we can really proclaim that s/he would have had been better off financially and/or psychologically to try to figure out when was the top and when to buy back rather than just continuing to stack sats if s/he remains uncertain about whether 50 BTC is enough for his/her own personal financial situation.

And of course, there are a lot of variations of these hypothetical longer term bitcoiners that could be imagined including that it is much easier to try to proclaim that any of the longer term bitcoiners would have had been better off to try to trade the BIG swings of BTC prices rather than the more practical approach of largely riding out the waves, continuing to try to accumulate more BTC along the way with a bit of persistence until s/he reaches a quantity of BTC that s/he believes to be enough or to be more than enough in order that some of the extra BTC might be shaved off at various points along the way because such person has accumulated more than enough BTC.

[BABY SHOES]

Both trading and Holding aren't easy, we can't say that Hodling your Bitcoin is the best when the person holding isn't making money somehow, when you are jobless holding will be the most difficult thing to expose yourself to, because it's just not going to work, you gotta eat and live and this will also make you panic about the market situations, there will be fear fully living in your lungs because, you invest something you should have use to survive instead of investing, so all your mind will be on the money you use for investment.

Trading is full of risks, either you are broke, jobless or have some good source of income, you can keep losing everything you've ever worked for, so with trading you don't just need only money, you need to build your skills to a certain stage to be able to start making money from trading.

I found Bitcoin holding or holding in general to be more easier if you have other source of income that will settle all your life responsibility, there is no other skills required to hold than using the right crypto wallet to store your assets and keep the private key safe.

If you are holding BTC and then unemployed because you are not working and not earning a steady income, why invest? In the end, you will know that the investment will be hampered due to the pressure of living needs because you are not working or let alone preparing an emergency fund, we must plan that investment is not just a lust just because of profit but think about other factors, whether from monthly income can cover a month, whether after that there is money left over, if there is then and can invest in this way. Not putting all the money in bitcoin while other needs are ignored, it is clear that this plan will not be in line.

Trading is full of risks compared to holding that there is no big risk, trading requires a lot of skills you need everything you need - analysis - charts, market sentiment - news - fundamentals - emotions - risk management - mind.

I'm not good at trading so it's better to be a BTC holder just - hold - be patient - ignore the market if your investment is still early.

Having another source of income is important then you can increase your investment into BTC, while the need then it should be fulfilled from your monthly income from real work as usual then this will be more stable than just relying on arrivals alone.

[ginsan]

Both trading and Holding aren't easy, we can't say that Hodling your Bitcoin is the best when the person holding isn't making money somehow, when you are jobless holding will be the most difficult thing to expose yourself to, because it's just not going to work, you gotta eat and live and this will also make you panic about the market situations, there will be fear fully living in your lungs because, you invest something you should have use to survive instead of investing, so all your mind will be on the money you use for investment.

Trading is full of risks, either you are broke, jobless or have some good source of income, you can keep losing everything you've ever worked for, so with trading you don't just need only money, you need to build your skills to a certain stage to be able to start making money from trading.

I found Bitcoin holding or holding in general to be more easier if you have other source of income that will settle all your life responsibility, there is no other skills required to hold than using the right crypto wallet to store your assets and keep the private key safe.

If you are holding BTC and then unemployed because you are not working and not earning a steady income, why invest? In the end, you will know that the investment will be hampered due to the pressure of living needs because you are not working or let alone preparing an emergency fund, we must plan that investment is not just a lust just because of profit but think about other factors, whether from monthly income can cover a month, whether after that there is money left over, if there is then and can invest in this way. Not putting all the money in bitcoin while other needs are ignored, it is clear that this plan will not be in line.

Trading is full of risks compared to holding that there is no big risk, trading requires a lot of skills you need everything you need - analysis - charts, market sentiment - news - fundamentals - emotions - risk management - mind.

I'm not good at trading so it's better to be a BTC holder just - hold - be patient - ignore the market if your investment is still early.

Having another source of income is important then you can increase your investment into BTC, while the need then it should be fulfilled from your monthly income from real work as usual then this will be more stable than just relying on arrivals alone.

What you have explained is quite accurate where the sustainability of the investment will run according to the income we get in a month. Apart from that, I think that if they don't have a fixed monthly income, it will be difficult to invest in the long term because if they need money for their living needs. They will have to sell their BTC holdings, which will not be in accordance with the initial plans they have made.

Yes, buy and hold are the first words that come to someone's mind, but if it is not accompanied by strong belief and supported by patience then they will not be able to do it. People who have been successful in long-term investments certainly have a strong enough mentality to deal with all the obstacles that occur in their investment planning.

[Chilwell]

And even if we do trading "right" (according to technical analysis), it's not a guarantee for any win. Because if we would have a trading program, which is trading exactly a technical analysis trading strategy, to generate profits, it simply doesn't exist. Because no (day) trading strategy is reliable long-term. We can make some profits due to luck but that doesn't mean that it's a reliable strategy.
If there would be a reliable trading strategy, someone would have coded an application already to make it an automated trading strategy - but such a technical analysis trading strategy doesn't exist.

Yes, this is a completely logical thought. But this is not understood by everyone because everyone is concerned about getting something instant.

That's why we have a nice, educational article about the topic now. 
Hopefully, many people will read our topic about the issue and be careful, when it comes to trading.

Thanks for your permission. this topic has been translated in my Bangali Language. you can review this here  - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=631891.msg63007012#msg63007012

Nice, fast translation.
Well done. 
+1 

I've added it to my list and appreciate your effort very much.

Language	translated by	Title
___________________________	_____________________	_______________________________________________________________________
Bengali	Z_MBFM	ট্রেড Vs হোল্ড এর ফাঁদ এড়িয়ে চলুন

I want to request for the translation of this topic to my local board naija board pidgin language.
 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5436296.0

[promise444c5]

HODLing is a good practice I will say besides  BTC has been making a good change over the days but aren't we taking a peep in low funds hodl does it make sense to do that , we all know the outcomes for such scenarios,it's always low.  

[1miau]

I want to request for the translation of this topic to my local board naija board pidgin language.
 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5436296.0

Hello  

A translation for our local naija board would be very nice to have.
I hereby give you a permission to translate my topic and I've reserved your translation in my OP:

Language	translated by	Title
___________________________	_____________________	_______________________________________________________________________
Nigeria (Naija)	Chilwell (reserved)	reserved

Trade vs. HODL is a very important issue to make aware of.  

[doomloop]

What you have explained is quite accurate where the sustainability of the investment will run according to the income we get in a month. Apart from that, I think that if they don't have a fixed monthly income, it will be difficult to invest in the long term because if they need money for their living needs. They will have to sell their BTC holdings, which will not be in accordance with the initial plans they have made.

It won't only go against the initial plan but it can also be the reason for loss if they need to sell their assets in an emergency at a time when the market is lower than the position when they bought which means they will have to sell them for less money than they had invested initially which isn't good and no one would want that to happen. That's why, it's essential for someone to make sure that they have a kitchen income before they invest any money into Bitcoin or cryptocurrencies because the market moves in a cycle and there is no specific timeframe for it to go up or down.

Some people might think that the market will go down after a specific amount of years or months and then go up again in the same way but that doesn't always happen in the same way, there can be delays and a bear market can always be extended due to unfortunate events in the industry or some bad piece of news.

[Out of mind]

According to me trading and holding are two different things because trading is for short term and investing or holding is for long term.Trading is a business where both profit and loss are faced.If you have a proper understanding of the market and do a good analysis of trading then you can get success in trading.And those who have no idea about trading definitely face losses.On the other hand, holding or investing requires a lot of patience and no one can hold or invest for a long period of time.

Trading is basically a risk full business where most of the time people lose their money, very few people can earn by trading. Those who have a lot of knowledge about the market can only make good amount of money by trading and those who have little knowledge can never make high profit by trading but face losses. Moreover, investing or holding is the best course of action as compared to trading as it has less risk and security and hopes for future gains. However, investing in altcoins has the potential to incur various losses, so one should never invest and hold without being fully informed. Also, you better stay away from altcoins and hold by investing in bitcoins, and investing in bitcoins is never risky. Controlling your emotions in investing and holding is the most important thing to be patient and not to get emotional as the fund loses value when investing due to market volatility. A person who invests for long term must hold for a long time, but he can expect high returns.

[Bd officer]

There is both profit and loss in trading, while investing you will not only gain but also have the possibility of loss. But now I think Bitcoin investing is not so risky. But investing is much less risky than trading. Especially those who want to make a quick profit choose trading and lose by making wrong trades. There are also many people who invest in Bitcoin but get disappointed when they see the market down a little, they should not be disappointed, they have to keep their minds strong and hold for a long time. Of course holding Bitcoin for a long time has the potential to earn good profits. Those who are not professional traders and do not have a good understand of the market, should follow the DCA method and invest in Bitcoin for a long time.

I myself traded and lost. One of the reasons was that I didn't know about the market, I didn't know much about trading, I wanted to make a quick profit. However I finally took a break from trading Bitcoin. I realized trading is not for everyone but investing is for everyone. I have invested in Bitcoin, I will hold it for a long time. Investing in Bitcoin is definitely better and risk free than trading.

[taufik123]

-snip-

Trading is full of risks compared to holding that there is no big risk, trading requires a lot of skills you need everything you need - analysis - charts, market sentiment - news - fundamentals - emotions - risk management - mind.

I'm not good at trading so it's better to be a BTC holder just - hold - be patient - ignore the market if your investment is still early.
-snip-

Common sense trading does require a lot of skills, not just wanting to trade and doing it by feeling without knowing what you're doing is right or wrong.

In reality, beginners will not pay attention to some of the skills needed in trading.
They are just consumed by FOMO when Bitcoin hype and reaches a new ATH.
They try to trade and end up losing their money and blame it on the fact that trading is detrimental, even though they themselves do not know the knowledge.

Being a holder for those who have high patience will be better.
But it must also be supported by quite a lot of funds to get more profit as well.
But if you become a Bitcoin holder when Bitcoin is below the price of $100, it is a gift, and become a rich man if you hold it now.


Hi @1miau
Great topic to discuss on my local board.
I would like to do a translation of this topic to my local language Indonesia and post it on the Indonesian Local Board.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=191.0

[EarnOnVictor]

Both trading and Holding aren't easy, we can't say that Hodling your Bitcoin is the best when the person holding isn't making money somehow, when you are jobless holding will be the most difficult thing to expose yourself to, because it's just not going to work, you gotta eat and live and this will also make you panic about the market situations, there will be fear fully living in your lungs because, you invest something you should have use to survive instead of investing, so all your mind will be on the money you use for investment.

Trading is full of risks, either you are broke, jobless or have some good source of income, you can keep losing everything you've ever worked for, so with trading you don't just need only money, you need to build your skills to a certain stage to be able to start making money from trading.

I found Bitcoin holding or holding in general to be more easier if you have other source of income that will settle all your life responsibility, there is no other skills required to hold than using the right crypto wallet to store your assets and keep the private key safe.

If you are holding BTC and then unemployed because you are not working and not earning a steady income, why invest? In the end, you will know that the investment will be hampered due to the pressure of living needs because you are not working or let alone preparing an emergency fund, we must plan that investment is not just a lust just because of profit but think about other factors, whether from monthly income can cover a month, whether after that there is money left over, if there is then and can invest in this way. Not putting all the money in bitcoin while other needs are ignored, it is clear that this plan will not be in line.

This is not particularly true as some investors are real-time survivors too, they fight to the last and will only take money from their investments as the last resort. So, I see this differently from yours, you are right in a sense but it doesn't apply generally. Some people would never have invested if they followed your view as an excuse. You do not have to be employed before you invest, if you have the money, do it, it's for your own good. People do it and deny themselves many things to achieve the goal, life goes on and they have a hopeful future with the investment, especially with a very promising one like BTC and landed property.

Personally, I can count a few people I know who either lost their job, didn't have a serious job (off and on) or are challenged one way or the other that are big-time investors. Buying assets is like owning a property, are you now telling me that you must sell your house simply because you are not employed/ lot a job? As you own the property/asset, you get to face your life as though you never owned it, that's the rule. What if you do not have the property/investment and you are still unemployed, will you not live one way or another (friends, family, menial jobs etc) till you fix yourself?

This is the spirit and psychology of some unemployed investors and I don't only know some of them in person but also respect them for that.