Bitcoin Forum

I was going through coinmarketcap today to see some of the cryptocurrencies I was involved in when I started, I was so surprised to see that a lot of them have even been delisted. I was heartbroken seeing that some tokens who raised millions of dollars, had huge community and were trending even in various platforms just died. I wanted to not mention any particular token but I have to mention PumaPay (https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/pumapay/) that raised about $8 million yet could not deliver anything and got investors holding a bag of shit.

If one can turn back the hand of time, and assuming I joined this forum early when I started my crypto journey, maybe the concept of shitcoins would have dawn on me and that would have made me convert those worthless bags to Bitcoin when I could.

I know there are other who would have similar experience too and there are still others caught up in the euphoria of getting rich through one token or the other. Well, if it is not Bitcoin, it is not worth holding.

No, you cannot turn back time, but you can learn from your past mistakes and not repeat the same mistakes today or in the future. Bitcoin is the king for a reason.

Since you brought this up, I could name multiple tokens, but allow me to share my personal experience.

I bought ETH in 2018 and kept it until 2020 when I switched to Bitcoin ONLY.

I made some money with ETH (not a lot). But thinking about it now, I would never do this again. With Bitcoin I have learnt to appreciate valuable assets in life. All those trendy, heavily marketed scams must be avoided.

It is pathetic and devastating how many people lost fortunes riding on basically air-money.

Remember LUNA? I 've seen people claiming they lost their entire savings... It's so sad.

If you buy altcoins and there is bear market, you will see your money dropping in price far more and it might be painful. If you see some altcoins all-time-high and there price now, they have dropped more than 15 times or more. That is altcons. Know that altcons are gambling because they may remain to be shit coins, they can become a dead coin, they may remain a failed project and they may likely  disappoint someone. I invested over $1000 on an altcoins when bitcoin was at $23000 this year before it increased to $30000, the coin dropped and my money was $500 when I sold the coin. I recently look at the coin on Coingecko recently, it has droped 1.3x more again.

The problem is you must not hold your shitcoins because it's only good if you're want to gamble by sell your shitcoins after few minutes or day(s).

Even the shitcoin was raised to $8 Millions, there's a chance if the creator was spend most of his money in order to convince people to invest.

Wealth is created by hard work and consistency, not lottery or gambling. I think even someone ever win huge amount of money through lottery or gambling, they will not able to manage the money.

Ah I have been there too, got involved with them thinking they were going to become big,
I checked them a few months ago and they are gone outside the top 100 on coinmarketcap.

I count myself fortunate to have been able to get some of my Bitcoin back by trading them
before they went to absolute zero.

It amazes me that so many people still think $hitcoins are an actual viable option.

I am 100% Bitcoin

I'm not surprised at all, people are greedy or desperate and you can sell them whatever you want, and what's even better for all those scammers is that people are not only naive, but you can take advantage of them several times until they finally realize that they've been scammed.

Bitcoin is of course something much different, but I still cannot be indifferent when I see that people are absolutely convinced that only by investing in Bitcoin they can count on a better future. I already recently wrote in another topic that there are various risks that should be taken into account. Here we can always refer to the old advice that says "don't invest more than you are prepared to lose".

It is very important to know the difference between Bitcoin and ALL other "cryptos".

When you say "crypto", it means shit, shitcoin, lies, deception, fraud.

When you say Bitcoin, it means FREEDOM, the ultimate financial power for the sovereign individual.

What is shitcoin?

Some definitions I found online:


A currency that has a small group of people in charge of consensus and can change it at will like a board of directors of a central bank.




A few more resources to read and learn why ONLY Bitcoin:


Don't Play Shitcoin Gambling Games

https://www.citadel21.com/dont-play-...gambling-games

Mastering Shitcoins: The Poor Man's Guide to Getting Crypto Rich

https://www.citadel21.com/dont-play-...gambling-games ://hackernoon.com/mastering-shi...h-2e469b762ba9

And watch this very good animated video: “Why Everything Not Bitcoin Will Fail”.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIkqBZnrKJM

It seems like what the OP feels, maybe there are many here who feel the same way. However, this is an old story or a story that will not be repeated and will be a very valuable experience that will be felt after the story happens and you will not repeat it again.
Bitcoin is indeed the best choice among other coins or all Altcoins and not for shitcoins, so doing very detailed research is a must to investigate any new coin or token. And I personally am not at all interested in new coins or tokens, and I am only interested in Bitcoin and some of the top and oldest Altcoins, and Bitcoin remains the priority.

The problem with that is that there are so many shitcoins and more are coming out all the time. The last time I looked at CMC I think there were 28K, but now they have changed the way they indicate it and I see that it says , me not really knowing what this refers to.

It seems clear to me that pump and dump shitcoins are still in the growth phase, and we are not even in the bull market. During the next one it seems to me that the shitcoins market explosion will be brutal and will evaporate the money of the unwary who invest in them. Some retail investors will make money with them, of course, but like a lottery winner, although those who will make money for sure will be the ones behind the projects.

The cryptocurrency market has been around for over 14 years and shitcoins dying or being replaced is nothing new, why are you so surprised? Even a project like Luna with a capitalization of hundreds of billions of dollars can collapse and disappear in just a few days, so you shouldn't be surprised by projects that only mobilize a few tens of millions of dollars.

Bitcoin is unique, simply because it was created as a currency and not as an investment. But we have turned it into an investment, but even if it is no longer used as an investment, it will still be a currency, a means of payment. So it's completely different from the projects out there that are created to make money.

Not all Altcoins are automatically shitcoins.
Shitcoins are the ones created for the single purpose like "getting rich quick".
Some alts have better properties than Bitcoin, they lack value though.
What becomes christal clear is that most crypto enthusiasts are in for FIAT, and not for crypto.

Bravo, you have finally had an insight!

It is impossible to turn back time, but now you have invaluable experience and now you have realized the true value of bitcoin and how unique it is. Don't waste your chance again.

Is it really true that in order to come to the realization of this, it is necessary to personally go through a useless investment in shitcoins, losing your money, and only then make sure that you should not play for a long time with shitcoins, because this is fraught with losses.

Do you, reading this post, want to get rich with shitcoins?

Maybe you should have at least given us an example of one altcoin that is better than Bitcoin. As far as I'm concerned, there are lots of altcoins or rather shitcoins out there that claims to provide same features with Bitcoin but they can never be Bitcoin. Altcoins, creators uses this pump and dump schemes solely to attract investors and make quick profits for them selfs. Bitcoin, being the best and most established cryptocurrency, is in a league of its own with a solid track record and a unique value proposition as digital gold.there's no coin like Bitcoin mate, you should have that in your mind.

Altcoins are shitcoins and they are very risky for investors. Buying top altcoins does not help to reduce risk too much if altcoin investors want to hold those shitcoins for long time like Bitcoin. If they believe those top altcoins can help them rich, they are wrong and are going to make a terrible investment mistake.

Don't buy altcoins because they are top altcoins (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5430698.0) is my topic to warn cryptocurrency newbie investors about it.
Visit Coinmarketcap and check its Cryptocurrency Historical Data Snapshot (https://coinmarketcap.com/historical/) to see how top altcoins can die with time.

Demand follows value and that reflects on the price. Any coin with value will be noticed, if it last for several years the demand for it will rise and so will the market price.

There is currently no altcoin which had the properties of decentralization and security like Bitcoin, and these are the key properties that investors are looking for.

For sure this kind of shitcoins or alternative token wasn't really worth it as an investment, especially for long-term investment people this token doesnt really have use, or the project is probably just made to fail so that the developers are just gonna end up scamming the investor's money, it was really a pretty common thing in altcoins back in the day since there was a lot of ICO project back in the day and most of them are also scams, early investors might get lucky if the token will get listed at some point on exchanges.

I mean when it comes to profit you could also rely on some blue chip tokens in the market since they will probably skyrocket as well when Bitcoin starts to gain momentum and increase its market price to the moon. But there is no doubt that Bitcoin is the king when it comes to investment because it is just the nature of Bitcoin will only a 21 million supply we surely it is going to increase its market price in the future if Bitcoin still exists in the future.

I can imagine how you are feeling especially as you must have done the math on how much Bitcoin you would have held had you invested and even if you had decided to DCA, you would have made much gain but the thing's that there's no need crying over spilled milk. Yeah, you made a mistake and let your emotions and your desire to get rich quick lead you to make unwise investment, but it's not too late to join the Bitcoin train. So far, Bitcoin has survived a lot of backlash and false predictions on when it will crash since it's inception in 2008 so that alone should give one enough confidence to invest in it.

They say, not only can holding bitcoin get big profits, holding altcoins can also give big returns when a bull market occurs.

I explored this world in 2021, unfortunately I couldn't turn back to 2018 where in 2018 I had started hearing about bitcoin from one of the people who was part of the crypto community. I don't want to and don't like to speculate. I don't regret the time that has passed because what I think about is the time in the future by preparing everything carefully. I don't have any assets in my wallet at the moment, I consider that to be the past and now I am saving for the future by choosing coins that are long lasting in terms of value.

From the history and experience of the people I have met, there is no reason why people should not be interested in owning bitcoin and holding it for a certain period of time. I found various incidents where very popular coins and tokens suddenly fell and could not rise again. I don't want to mention the names of these coins and tokens. The future I am preparing for does not want to experience the choices I choose. That's what I mean that I'm preparing it together with bitcoin.
People say there are many ways to get it. I believe what they say.

For me its Litecoin. Only thing missing is the value storage. Higher transfer speed, lower fees. Optional security.
There are other decentralized coins most have a CEO. which does not go well (with me) 
I take LTC as Payment, I can pay with LTC, not too many business though know it.

We shouldn't generalize and throw alle Altcoins in one bucket.

The problem on shitcoins is their goal was too big in able to develop with such limited funding. Real life companies that developing product which some crypto startup companies is targeting are spending hundred millions of dollar or more just deliver a product.

Those early startup companies that is now dead are those who have a too good to be true goal and most of them are just interested on scamming money that’s why they make their whitepaper so attractive for investors. Bitcoin is the only OG crypto that is worth holding since it’s real decentralized blockchain which new crypto project can’t copy due to Satoshi absence in Bitcoin.

Could you explain more about the aspect you said there are some alts that has better properties than Bitcoin? perhaps you can give the example of the alts that has better properties than Bitcoin, honestly speaking, to me the only coin worth investing is Bitcoin because in the cryotcurrency Bitcoin is like a backbone were as all other crypto depends on it growth, so other cryptos could fail but Bitcoin will never failed, with the love I have for Bitcoin I make sure I invest on Bitcoin on monthly basis because I trust and believe it potential and will always choose Bitcoin as my first choice in times of investment.

Bitcoin is only considered as a digital currency one can invest and hold, other cryptocurrencies are centralized and have higher risk of investment with uncertainties to what might be their outcomes, if you hold other cryptocurrencies, you are taking high risk and such is not regarded as an investment, but when you invest on bitcoin, you can hold as many as you want for any duration of time without having fear of missing out like you get with other cryptocurrencies.

Most are centralized, or partly as those run on ETHEREUM Chains. There are still other decentralized coins arround.

or pure gamblers, risking more than they can/should on a purely made up project
aimed at lightening peoples wallets.

We all know at this stage or at leats I hope everyone does of the saying "don't invest
more than you are prepared to lose". but I have taken some risks in order to get
more Bitcoin...which have worked out.


They never stated "are better than Bitcoin" but have better properties like Monero
which is a specialist project in Privacy which Bitcoin is not.

There are Altcoins which are still viable and which are "old" projects like Monero and Litecoin.

They never plan to deliver anything, they put the raised money into their pockets and fake activity for a few months until it becomes acceptable to silently abandon the so-called project. This is the destiny of nearly all tokens and altcoins. And the so-called community that hypes the so-called project is just a bunch of hired bounty hunters.

This project is created to milk every investors of its money.  The developer never intended to deliver or make the project successful.  Collecting $8M is huge enough to suppor the project actvities plus the possible token they sold along the way of as the token is being traded.


You can always start a new.  Now that you realized that Bitcoin is the best option to invest among the cryptocurrency, why not start accumulating now.  Who knows probably you can recover your losses this time.


I invested in many altcoins and hold a lot of worthless tokens so it is not only you who experiences this kind of thing.  but I never regretted any of them since I only invest what I can afford to lose and because for me it is a good lesson to learn.

This is why nothing equates experience. It humbles us. One with experience is wiser than one without it. I remember that year I came into this industry and was full of hope and excitement of easily hitting a goldmine. Well, the goldmine almost happened for me if not that I continually shifted the threshold each time I was close to target. Greed did me in many times as I wouldn't sell off. Was always expecting more, thinking of turning a $100 investment to $2,000,000 just like that. Most of those tokens dipped beyond recovery, and thereafter died off. Many of them should be in my Imtoken wallet (that was the most popular ERC enabled wallet then), bag holding them.

Yes, I agree with you that Bitcoin is the surest of all the cryptos to buy. However, make sure not to buy it during the bull season if you're to hodl. Now is the right time to buy Bitcoin for anyone desiring it. The next good time to buy after this year will be in 2026. Next year is halving and that's possibly going to push it into a rally for a fresh ATH (expectedly in 2025).

This is why now, I always have my heart back to Bitcoin. I admit that before, I was lured to some altcoins most are shitcoins. It was just sad because some of my funds that purchased of these random altcoins is came from Bitcoin, so if I just held, I could have more Bitcoin instead than losses.

Holding a large portion of altcoins that will eventually become shitcoins will certainly be very detrimental, but haven't you done research first on why you have to hold shitcoins that will have no price and are mostly abandoned.

Bitcoin is indeed the main choice, but some of the top altcoins are certainly alternative choices that can provide profits like ETH and it is clearly the king of all altcoins at the moment. ETH and Bitcoin both run simultaneously.
you are too lulled by the altcoin hype and don't get out when the price is high.

But unfortunately time cannot be turned back. If you look at the altcoin era in 2017 and 2018, that time was beyond logic, so many people joined in ICO investment, and most of those projects are now dead and have no price at all. It's very sad because many people lost their money.

Playing with altcoins is very dangerous, but in my opinion they can promise bigger profits than bitcoin. The price of an altcoin can rise tens of times its price, that's a big profit if you own it, but the risk is also very big, the altcoin you hold could die and have no price at all. Bitcoin is very difficult for its price to double, so altcoin profits can be greater than bitcoin. But if we want to store coins that are guaranteed and last a long time, then it is only bitcoin and nothing else.

So besides the many stories about losses due to altcoins, there are also stories of people who made big profits from trading altcoins. So don't get hung up on what has happened, because right now Bitcoin is the best choice and will last forever

The higher the risk, the higher the profit, everything is proportional to each other. Bitcoin is indeed the top safe choice in the cryptocurrency market but in terms of profits it cannot be compared with altcoins. Investing in altcoins is extremely risky, the win rate is very low, but in return if you choose the right coin, the profits will be huge. Depending on each person's taste, there is a suitable choice. Those who are not willing to accept large losses should stay away from altcoins and stick with bitcoin. On the contrary, those who are willing to take risks can try altcoins.

I can remember a time when there were basically only 3 coins, namely Bitcoin ...LiteCoin... and DogeCoin and we laughed at the other two coins, because we were loyal to Bitcoin (BTC) .....then developers saw a way to make quick money and they created 1000s of Shitcoins and greedy people chased it, like it was a new Gold Rush.

I stayed with Bitcoin and I just bought more and more .... until I collected enough to sell those coins at a massive profit. Some of my friends bought "Shitcoins" and they are all bag holders now..   :P

Well, I believe that a greater percentage of us who were not opportuned to discover Bitcoin in it's very early days; will sure have similar stories as one shared by the op' to tell..

And one that have stuck in my mind while reading through this thread was and is student coin, I invested not just money, but my time as well in that project, invited alot of people to invest in the project too, all this people are feeling like i scammed them today, student coin raised over $70 million dollars in their ico, but the price of the token has continued to be shit ever since it got listed, though the token is still actively trading on a few exchanges, the price remains shit, and chances of return on investment is still very much low .

If you were at that time, you would not know whether Bitcoin could rise higher or remain at that price. That's what makes people buy a lot of shitcoins and hold onto them for a while. They hope to make a profit from those shitcoins.

But then, many shitcoins can't continue their journey and disappear with their developers and teams. Meanwhile, investors smile bitterly, seeing their losses and not being able to get their money back.

The crypto market will always be full of coins coming and going. And only those that are worthy and have a function can survive amidst the tough competition between coins. And that is why Bitcoin remains the main choice as an investment. Bitcoin is a coin that is worth holding for the short, medium and long term though. While shitcoins are only for the short and medium term and shitcoins will disappear in the long term because other shitcoins will replace them.

Yes, in some ways, investing in altcoins can be called a kind of gambling, except that we can throw out the part that connects gambling with entertainment. What I have noticed in general in my environment, but also on the forum, is that there are a lot of young people who are still supported by their parents, and who still do not appreciate money in the way that they might appreciate it one day when they start earning it themselves.

There prevails the old saying that roughly says "easy money is easy to spend", and with all these social networks that young people use today, they are very easy targets for scammers. Some people know how to deal with risks, but the majority are completely unprepared and therefore have nothing but financial loss in the long run.

I would guess that after we learned it that became the norm but early on the first few years that wasn't a common knowledge and people made mistakes. Even exchanges of that time has gone down in bankruptcy, when I first started the bitcoin world mt.gox was still functioning and everyone I know used it, thankfully I couldn't, not that I wouldn't if I could then I would have but I couldn't and that's why I sent someone money via payupal to get bitcoin but at the end of the day it became obvious that alts were bad, well most of them.

This is when we all learned not to invest into most of them, at least not long term but the early few years between 2010 to 2012, everyone invested into altcoins as well and there were no shitcoin understanding.

But you're a full member of the forum, so that goes to show you have been around for quite some time 🤔. Anyways, even before I got to join this forum, I have always been careful with the coins I choose and I only try to invest in the coins that are top on the list, especially the top ten or so. I buy majority of Bitcoin, and the remaining amount can go into ETH, ADA, and other top coins. But Bitcoin is always my top choice.

In one day the market showed a positive trend and this really helped overcome the confusion of many who asked when BTC would rise again, although slowly.  yeah one word for the king of BTC, recover quickly and make ATH again and we know its potential in the future.

Bitcoin is the best and stands at the top of all currencies in the crypto market the price of altcoins rises depending on the price of bitcoin. Security is considered one of the most important things you need to take care of when making money from cryptocurrency. Many believe that all cryptocurrencies are as safe and secure as other currencies but this is not true each digital token has a different level of security but you only get the best with bitcoin. Bitcoin can provide you profit in long term and short term and that is why it is considered to be the safest available. Also Ethereum BNB is the best investment among altcoins it is better to stay away from new currencies and proceed after researching the market well.

Its a regrettable situation. You've brought attention to an obvious flaw in the crypto ecosystem: the flood of tokens that initially look good but terrible inside. The case of PumaPay, which raised millions yet failed to perform, is not unique. Examples of this type of reckless mix of ignorance, greed, and insufficient research appear in the crypto world.

Even though Bitcoin was the first and still has a lot of value, its important to stress that this isnt a Bitcoin-only discussion. It concerns the fundamental frameworks of the modern economy, the demand for more responsibility in the context of digital currencies, and the necessity of transparency. Knowledge, judgment, and a fair dose of skepticism are essential for anyone setting out on this road.

Why not mention others as well? Puma Pay is a token from the 2019/era, why are you still into this altcoin today? Most old altcoins will get abandoned, this is how things go around in crypto space, the only old tokens you should have are the biggest ones like BNB, Polkadot, Polygon and few others, focus more on brand new altcoins with good team and when a bull market comes, dump all of them, wait for another bear market and buy Bitcoin with most if that money.

It's a fact that Bitcoin is the best but you can also grow your Bitcoin stash more faster with altcoins, I still prefer not putting all my eggs in one basket, if you diversify you only need one or two altcoins to do insanely well, and if you have ten altcoins it's impossible they all go wrong.

Bitcoin will always be my end goal, it's the number one coin that I want to keep for years but having 2 BTC now is almost impossible, but altcoins can get me there faster in a bull market, improve your altcoin hunting skills, and make sure you always take profits.

I've had my time of disappointment in the altcoin market around the end of 2018. It was clear that so many projects, even huge ones, failed to deliver on their ambitious promises. Many have brought their investors profits, of course, because of how high the prices went up in 2017, but it was just that, profits, and not the actual products. So I largely agree that focusing on Bitcoin makes sense, although I do think that at least some altcoins (at minimum, Ethereum) deserve some recognition as well. I don't mean people should hold them, though, as Ethereum doesn't tend to rise proportionately higher than Bitcoin, but Bitcoin seems to be a safer investment. As for other coins, maybe sometimes they rise above Bitcoin proportionately, but there's also more risk involved.

Very few options in crypto market are worhtful to be held. We can't generalize every altcoins as shitcoins, because some of them are thriving side by side with Bitcoin for a long time already, like Ethereum, for an example, which offers the most popular chain for crypto developers to create their own concepts and projects. However, without any doubts, Bitcoin should be your first alternative when thinking about crypto investments and the cryptocurrency you should destinate the largest percentage of your bankroll for holdings. I would say 80%-90% of crypto holdings should be in BTC currency.

Many people out their sees shitcoins as a regular project that they can invest to make money from it and it always end so bad. It is a privilege to been in the forum which has made it members to understand what shitcoins is all about and how dangerous it can be to invest  on shitcoins. The forum has always make past experience of shitcoins as a reference for people to understand where they are investing their money all in the name of investment. Bitcoin is just the best for investment,  it is very reliable and very safe for investment.  

I am one who has experienced this too. I have lost a lot of money investing in altcoins. Maybe I am not fit to deal with altcoins or it is not for me. Because others are still making profits out of altcoin investments, but for me, I am way past that. I literally have no faith in altcoins anymore. Altcoins are like a trend. It is good as long as it stays. And suddenly one day it fades away. Then the project is dead.

Now I only hodl Bitcoin. It has been here for a long time and it will stay. As history repeats itself, we will be able to see the same thing over and over and benefit from it. That's why I always choose Bitcoin. There are other things such as security, safety, decentralization, and other stuff. But I think everyone knows that already. So let's not talk about that here. So yeah, in terms of HODLing, BTC should be the first choice for everyone.

This is cryptocurrency industry  for you and there is nothing certain in the industry not even bitcoin but the truth  is that anyone holding shitcoin should have already known the high risk involved and should be always ready to trade wisely and I'm  sorry if you ever made huge losses but I guess it was because you weren't aware of is negative effect but now I'm sure you do.
I've always heard stories of people talking so much ill about shitcoins and I wouldn't have to blame them for it but I think there have also been stories of people who made it real big with same shitcoins we cry so much about and I guess such persons were lucky and fortunate but at the same time also good in the game of trading shitcoins.

Don't hold shitcoins and if you must invest in them, invest only what you can afford to lose as there is nothing guaranteed in cryptocurrency, so always trade with caution.

You shouldn't dwell on regrets, as what has happened is already in the past and cannot be changed. Instead, focus your attention more on Bitcoin than other crypto as many of them, as you mentioned are considered "shit coins." To be honest, Bitcoin is the dominant force in the market and the strongest crypto.

I won't deny that I hold various other crypto on my CEX, but I don't often invest in them anymore. Lately, I've been primarily investing in Bitcoin and holding it for the long term.

Not all of us get what we expect from some of our investments. We buy a coin with very high expectations, but it may end in disappointment. What we need to do in such a situation is to change our strategy. We may be making some wrong choices.

Bitcoin is one of the most preferred things in investment. It is always best to trust and invest in Bitcoin rather than investing in coins that we do not know what they are and losing money.

I keep different coins in my wallet, but I understand the importance of investing the amount I can afford to lose when I do not get the income I expect.

You know what they say ‘hindsight is 20/20’, meaning it is easy to look at the past and think I should have done that or I should have avoided doing this, but at the end sometimes the only way to learn is by making those mistakes on your own, this is why I consider a strategy to manage your money as key for your success, as even if you make mistakes, those mistakes will only produce small losses and most of your capital will be intact once you finally have learned the lessons necessary to become profitable.

Focusing on Bitcoin alone can be a good way to avoid a lot of losses, but remember Bitcoin has high volatility but even so the returns and guarantees for Bitcoin will be better.
A Bitcoin drop is a good opportunity to buy and it all depends on the Bitcoin price.

Whereas other cryptos such as ETH, BNB, SOL, XRP are dependent on Bitcoin price and tend to be dumped when Bitcoin price is unstable like now.
Saying "damn coin" only applies to coins that do not have any development or will only be abandoned when the hype is over.

Many find Shitcoins that generate a lot of losses, so stay away from these shitcoins and focus on Bitcoin and the main altcoins.

If you are holding coins for the long term, I recommend not storing them in CEX, because the risk of loss will definitely occur and is more vulnerable.
Long term it is better to store in a private swallow with full control of the user, the important thing is to keep the wallet safe and that's enough. 

I think you are kind of wrong but some what correct.

There are more than 1 POW coins that are worthwhile.

I made more profit on Doge than any coin including BTC.

But the truth is there are over 9000 coins at the moment and 8000 maybe 8500 are garbage .

I peg about 10 pow coins with a bit of value and possibly ripple which is a pos coin.  The others are fairly trash including eth.

But each of us have an opinion and we are able to voice them freely here on bitcointalk thanks to theymos.

Do you know why it is recommended to hold bitcoin for the long term while hodling altcoins for short-term use? It's because of the sort of negative event you spoke about. A coin's value could drop tomorrow even if it was performing well years later.

That appears to be the main issue with all altcoins. They always behave like pump-and-dump coins with a brief price recovery in the crypto market.

That's why it is advised that don't rush to invest in altcoins out of FOMO or for a long period to expect huge profits to happen. Invest in them but it's for the short term and make sure that you don't get carried away by forgetting to withdraw your profits when you ought to.

the theory would be if crypto succeeds BTC will certainly be the leader and should hold price well and grow over the next 10-20 years.

The only  POW algo that can really challenge BTC sha256 algo  is LTC/Doge Scrypt  and if it does well it can last for the next 100 years or more due to the structure of Doge payouts.

Most other coin are bs especially Eth which is basically an unregulated bond run by one guy.

For me as I am a bit older I do 3 coins

BTC + LTC + DOGE.  based on the hardware that mines them is very solid and there is a lot of it.

holding altcoin is very risky. the safest altcoins that I trust are only ETH, BNB, TRX and FTM. i don't hold altcoin for long term because there is no guarantee that the company behind it will survive. I only buy it because it provide big volatility, sometime the price change is bigger than btc so I gain profit from it in trading but my exit point always in btc or fiat.

I agree with that, we have to be realistic in looking at possible future profits.
No investment will make you rich overnight, I realized that when I lost money on stupid coins that I had saved and hoped would make me rich.
Meanwhile, Bitcion is proven, and there is no reason to doubt it after seeing what has happened in the past.

These are some of the top Altcoins with a strong community, so they are quite safe, but in terms of profits or price movements, they are the same as Bitcoin, which are not much different, in fact they are quite in line with Bitcoin's movements. That is still a good thing unless you choose a new Altcoin that is only currently Hype is talked about and then hopes for big profits.

It's a common truth in this industry. It doesn't just happen because of the SEC or whatnot. For a lot of reasons a well-thriving shitcoin/altcoin could be flagged by the exchange it was listed on. Scam/Fraud flags, among others could be grounds for an exchange to stop the trading and in some cases even delist a coin. It sucks especially for early birds who are looking to earn a quick buck but at the same time most of these flags are found out to be true, so people are kept safe from putting their money on projects that are not in the business of giving you the profits and other features that they promised in the past.

Anyway, of course SEC is also to blame for this in part since their crackdown on crypto, but for the most part it's all good.

You should probably be aware that most altcoins are not worth considering in your long-term investment portfolio - but some may be worth considering. This is intended so that you don't just focus on one particular asset, including bitcoin, because basically several altcoins are expected to continue to experience regular development and even have the potential to get more use cases in the future.

I don't mind if some of us have some of these altcoins in our portfolios - but bitcoin should be a larger percentage of altcoin owned. The intent and purpose are the same ^{[expect returns from him]} - but bitcoin tends to feature more innovation than altcoin.

At the moment, it is really a fuck altcoins! For me, because I am still focused on accumulating bitcoin, which I am more sure will go for the bull market, but alt coins are what I am also sure will get pumped during the bull market, the confusion is that you don't know which one will get pumped; it might even be the one that never crossed your mind to invest in, but that will luckily get pumped, and as a matter of fact, I cannot just go about buying different kinds of alt coins all in the name of hunting for profit. Although I still have a lot of alt coins in my wallet, which I have invested in in the past, I am hoping they can be pumped because they have really been worthless for a long time.

Yeah menh regrets never make anything better it just worsen this case of everything and always put you on a down spirit because you Begin to wonder why you really did or took the decision you took without thinking of way forward to actually solve the problem at hand. Well investing in other coins are at very risk but what's life without risk as life itself is a risk and I think only risk takers actually make it in life but however it's important to be wise when risking so I just buy or rely on this altcoins when the bull market comes because at that time it's easy to make significant amount of profits from some these altcoins that tend to follow up Bitcoin in the uptrend of the crypto market

It's good you were able to notice this yourself about how risky it could be investing in altcoins rather than Bitcoin, because imagine, had it been you had funds in those coins that got delisted, does that mean that's how you should have lost all your funds? So this should be a lesson to everyone to know that a coin investment are always just like gambling, and as such, you should always endeavor to invest an amount you can always afford to lose at all times.

This isn't a new problem as new individual that get introduced into the market will still fall for the scams of altcoins because they have very attractive offers that looks too good for newbies to pass. Many individual has been in your position and made same mistakes but took corrections on time and that's why it's good to always be around other experience individual so you can learn from them. Your thread will help others joining the forum to invest only in Bitcoin.

Scammers are using altcoins to steal from investors as they don't have any plans to build any projects that they'll promise on the white paper of the project but only interested in collecting money from inexperienced investors and running away to live luxury lifestyle.

I agree with you that topcoins do not guarantee us and for me the altcoin market is more like gambling. So my opinion about altcoins is that when investing in altcoins we should avoid investing in old projects and only invest when the price increase season comes, we should only invest in new projects and only invest in the short term. But there is one exception altcoin, which is ETH. How do you evaluate Ethereum? It is also an altcoin and is even known as the buying king of altcoins. I don't think ETH is a shitcoin because no shitcoin can exist and develop as sustainably as ETH.

Indeed, investing in altcoins is not bad at all but we need the right time to invest in them and when the bull season comes or during the bull season is a good time to invest in altcoins. 

I don't deny that altcoins are risky and mostly scams but honestly, I prefer a diverse market rather than just monopolistic and boring.  altcoins are risky but they offer better returns than bitcoin so investing in them is not a complete disadvantage.  if we choose the right project then we can get huge profits that today's bitcoin will never be able to do.

Never rely in a project that gathered million dollars and yet you  believe there is a future?
just because they collected 8 million dollars it is a legit project because you don't know that the amount just comes from the team to fool people that they earned too much from the investors but the truth is? they are the one who invested on it.
sorry for your losses mate but you should have checked your funds constantly , because some of them may be used as pump  and dump.
so  you can take them out instantly before it dumped back .
are you sure on Binance? maybe better to check the issue now and decide, because you might lose the momentum if the urging happens from the SEC.

Have you heard about the Youc project,it was one of the big project.Which was used by the forum people to earn good money and project itself good value one,many people gained huge money who had their investment in the YOUC project.Mean while many shit coins was originated in the same period.Some people loss their money in the shit project too.So every periodic time period both good and evil project will survive.It’s trader responsibility to choose the good project compared to the evil one.The background verification was essential one to get escape from it.

This means only considering a certain time when we want to bring money into altcoins, because altcoins are not suitable for long-term investments like what many people do through Bitcoin. So altcoins are only used when there are good moments, because all altcoins are very different from Bitcoin which is basically good enough and suitable for long-term investment.

This is certainly not a matter of right or wrong when you want to invest, but it is related to the matter of getting more profits. So there is nothing wrong for someone who wants to put their money into an altcoin that they like as long as the return can be greater even though the risk is always there. This means that as long as it can be very profitable, there is no harm in doing it, especially if some people really like putting money in lots of places so they will feel bored if they only put it in one place.

I don't know about the project you are talking about, but there are many projects that bring profits to investors, not just bitcoin. But the thing is that altcoin projects have a very short lifespan and are more suitable for speculation than long-term investment. People who lose money from altcoins are mostly too greedy, they want to make more profits but in the end they lose everything. Whether it's bitcoin or any altcoin, there will be winners and losers, no investment will help everyone win win. For the winners, they see it as an opportunity and take full advantage of it, and for the losers, they call it a scam.

If you put this into percentages, you will see that the percentage of making good return on investment for altcoin is very small. If you want to experience real pain, try to put all your investment funds in altcoins and see how well you go.


There is a pattern that many people use and that is spreading their capital among trending low cap altcoins. For instance, if they have $10,000 for investment, they can decide to spread it among ten altcoin with huge marketing and hype and pray for at least one or two to "go to the moon" like they love to put it. This, sometimes work for them as the profit of two or three of them can cover the losses incurred in the others that failed and overall, they will make profit.

Even though this seems reasonably smart, I see it as gambling because it is possible the ten altcoins can fail because the percentage of failure for altcoin is as high as 95%or even more.

Many bitcoin investors criticize traditional investors as stubborn, outdated, and call bitcoin a scam or just an asset with no real value.  but they don't look back at themselves, they are still as stubborn as traditional investors in asserting that bitcoin is the most valuable investment and altcoins are useless. 

You are right, there is no right or wrong here, it's all up to each person's choice.  altcoin is good or bad, profitable or not, the community knows, not just a few individuals saying it is useless, meaning it will be useless.  i even made a big profit on altcoins in 2021, just because they don't make a profit on it and they think it's useless.  so funny.

It's clear how many people don't understand Altcoins, Luna crashed when the bull market is almost over, I am surprised that many people still have their Luna bags when the coins already reach a new all time high, the way you are going to play your games with Altcoins is different from that of Bitcoin, there are money to be made from both sides but with Altcoins we need to be more cautious, because Altcoins are not stable like Bitcoin.

It's peoples fault if they lose money with Luna, because there was enough time to have take their profits, Luna is a scam but it made a huge ROI, but of course, people are too greedy to take profits.

Also, why would anyone put all his or her life savings into Luna coin? If they have shared that into five different projects, Luna will be the only loss they had, Bitcoin is the best and safest risk for those who aren't good with Altcoins investment but I can't take my eye off the money that Altcoins have to offer,

In my opinion, all PoS altcoins are scams. I am kind of sceptical when it comes to new types of "assets". I don't think any them are assets. We will soon face an ugly situation where people buying all those coins will eventually get scammed or they will lose a lot of money. (YES! ETHEREUM too).

Most investors make the mistake of buying shitcoin instead of btc because their goal is to get rich with little money. I also used to buy a lot of tokens which suddenly became worthless which is why i later converted those worthless bags to btc. According to me btc is the only dependable currency that will give you special guarantee and you will get good profit anytime. At this time many smart investors keep most of their money in btc and if they go in future btc will have a good journey there will be more profit amount. Also if you buy altcoins in bear market your money will go down so follow the ATH of btc and buy at a right time.

It cannot be denied that the majority of altcoins on the market are scams, even the top projects do not have guarantees like bitcoin. But we should not deny that many of them generate significant profits before they disappear. Luna is an example, why don't people take profits when they are already profitable? And then blame it for being a scam after it collapses? This is a financial market that is no different from a battlefield, where there will be winners and losers. This is not a place of charity or mutual help, everyone knows that, but because of excessive greed, there is a high price to pay. Do you want high profits? If you want, you need to accept higher risks. You cannot be greedy, you cannot want high profits and safety at the same time. If you already know altcoins are scams, why do you join them and blame them for being scams when you lose?

For me, everything has risk, if you have the courage to invest, you must take responsibility for your decisions, don't blame altcoins or anyone else because no one forced us to invest in them. By the way, I don't care if ETH is a scam or not, but I know that it has also brought a lot of profits to many investors, its ROI is not inferior to bitcoin.

Before embarking on crypto journey we must be careful about all the things and idea about how we can earn money is very necessary. When I first started out in cryptocurrency I invested in shitcoins and I saw many scams in those coins. I think it is generally wise to hold shitcoin as it should never be a long-term investment, but should be sold when it pays off. Investing in shitcoin and holding it will surely lead to scams in the future. To make money we must invest in Bitcoin which is long term and less risky with no chance of losing money. And surely we can expect good things in future if we invest in Bitcoin, Bitcoin is an asset that helps a person to become rich the most.

If you mean me, personally, I must say 3 things.

1. I bought ETH because I was greedy. I made some money, as I said, then got out. So I don't call them scams because I lost money, but because, especially when NFTs came around, people created literally garbage and sold it for HUGE money.

2. ETH moved to PoS. Since this change happened, Ethereum is a different Blockchain that it used to be when I bought ETH. I don't trust / I hate all PoS blockchains. In fact I only trust and believe in PoW.

3. I don't see bitcoin as an investment, but as an opportunity to change the world order and to achieve a financial world which will be more liberal, without central banks and authorities.

Those 3 arguments are exactly the reason why I sold ETH (having gains) and went to Bitcoin only.

PoS or PoW is everyone's preference, just choose which is better, Semi-centralized or Fully decentralized.
Ethereum's change to PoS does make everything centralized and makes Ethereum no longer in line with Bitcoin.

But let's see, the top Altcoin is Ethereum and no one can compete with it.
Layer2 platforms are created within the Ethereum ecosystem and more and more Layer2 chains are emerging.

Choosing Bitcoin or ETH depends on what you're buying it for.
I even have them all and the top investments are in Bitcoin and then ETH.
I'm just looking for profit and some investments for the long term.

Investments without proper research are obviously nothing less than a gamble, however, someone who does their due diligence and evaluates the possible outcomes before making an investment and also checks a project from top to bottom to see if it has actually got any potential or not, they won't be gambling their money this way because you will at least have a general idea about the project that you are investing your money in and you won't just be blindly trusting the promises they are making.

Someone who invests in a project just because its token has a low market cap, or because the price of the token is low and they expect that it will be high in the future, these are not really the right way of evaluating a project, you need to dive deeper into their system and find out the fundamental properties and everything that actually matters.

We all agree that bitcoin is the most valuable asset that any investor can comprehend and hold, but I think there are still some tokens that are valuable enough to hold and that have remained in existence for a while now. In fact, I think the majority of investors do not only believe in bitcoin but also purchase other tokens to increase their profits. My opinion is that most people are not necessarily doing this to gain money; for example, even when the price of bitcoin is falling, the value of the token they are holding may still be increasing. I am aware that it may be challenging for you to purchase a token as though it were worthless to you, yet the majority of investors do hold this belief for tokens other than bitcoin.

Which is not necessarily good. It opened the door to the thought of all crypto being a fraud.
Maxis haven't caught on.

Like other say, you can look back, but you cannot take back; you just need to look forward if those coins is part of your past. This serves you a lot of lessons and learnings. we have different regrets in life that we didn't invest in that coin and hold, but that's the life. Also, another thing is you don't need to love those coins its part of your journey. You can make an investment and use the opportunity to gain profit; most of our goal here is financial freedom. Buy, sell, or hold and check another opportunity for another coin or position.

I do get the optimism with Bitcoin ‘coz if it is potential alone, then it has not only the potential but has proven how high its market price could increase. But to rely fully on a single asset won’t be advisable. If you’re into investment for years, then for sure you’d choose to diversify your portfolio. One reason is to lessen the risk due to factors which may affect the market in a sudden; economic crisis, wars, viruses and such. But if you’re that prepared to lose or win no matter what, then such method could work. Problem only arise when an investor isn’t ready for negative outcomes and are just being too positive just because he invested into it.

Generally on average them invest in bitcoin to expect returns - while only a small percentage of us get bitcoin as legal tender. The decision to only have bitcoin in an investment portfolio is never wrong - but I think they also need to minimize risks by diversifying. I'm not necessarily suggesting they do it on altcoin - but some other physical assets are worth considering.

If the main goal of investment is to return - then your advice seems very appropriate. Buy, hold and sell when you have gotten a return that worth it what you expected. The risks of bitcoin investments are worth the returns - but that's only if they plan for the long term.

I also agree diversifying is nevere a bad thing if we have enough funds for it.  I also suggest investing on other investments not on altcoins that we know is very risk and we may end up losing our capital if we ended up investing in scam projects.


Bitcoin is cyclical so we can add the reaquire and rinse and repeat part.  We should not waste the opportunity given by the ever-fluctuating price of Bitcoin due to its ever-changing bear-bull market pace.

you can always diversify your portfolio outside of crypto market. tangible assets that you won't go wrong if crypto market fails. like real-estate, jewelries and others. but in this specific market, i can understand why most users are holding btc rather than other alts. as we have seen thru the years, only few alts survive. just like what the OP mentioned, a multi-million dollar project ended up worthless. and they are so many, you would get disappointed if you happen to invest in one of them.

what exactly are you trying to explain?
Opening up the idea that all crypto is a scam?

Ethereum is at the top of the rankings because it does have continuous development not without reason.
But also don't think other cryptos are scams.
See how the top altcoins in the top 100 are doing, I own several of them.

The idea that crypto is a scam is for those who don't fully understand crypto.
which ones are really scams and which ones have the potential to provide benefits.

Honestly, the entire cryptocurrency industry is just a money- game, they don't offer too much utility or real use cases. Furthermore, cryptocurrency is a new industry that still doesn't have too many regulations and we are still free so don't be too surprised when there are a lot of scams running around us. That is the price we have to pay when we want freedom and need to protect ourselves, don't be too greedy and get scammed and then blame them for cheating.

But not all are scams, anyone who says ETH is a scam is ignorant. If it is a scam and it can bring x100, x1000 profit then I still prefer to let it scam me. We are here to make a profit so if you have an opportunity don't miss it, altcoins have many risks but also many opportunities. We are not here to prove who is right and who is wrong, if we are right but don't get the money then what do we have?

You are misleading if you are suggesting that diversification into shitcoins is any kind of a good idea.

diversification for the mere sake of diversification is not a good idea if you don't know what the fuck you are doing.. including that bitcoin is likely a very unique asset, so if you are going to hold other assets that are also correlated to bitcoin's performance, then you are largely just adding more risk onto an already risky investment and you might not be getting any benefit from any of those investments into shitcoins, if that might be what you are suggesting.  

Generally the idea of diversifying would be to invest into categories of assets that are not necessarily correlated, even though a lot of assets end up being correlated to deceptive kinds of irresponsible fiat (and debt) practices, but nontheless, diversification into various traditional asset classes (that would not be keeping all of your eggs in bitcoin and perhaps dollars) would have categories of diversifying into equities, property, commodities, bonds and cash or cash equivalents... so there could be some value that comes from diversifying once you reach a certain threshold of value.. perhaps 20% to 100% of your annual income, and perhaps there would not even be a need to diversify before reaching some level of value that starts to feel like it is getting BIG relative to your situation.. and how to diversify once you reach that threshold value might well be another consideration, but shitcoins surely does not seem like it should play much of any kind of place in the investment portfolio unless it is quite limited (maybe less than 10% of the size of the bitcoin investment) and/or maybe ONLY to go down such a shitcoin path with any kind of size based on a kind of special knowledge that you have that goes beyond merely what a bunch of dumbass shitcoin pumpers (influencers) are telling, including the dumb and misleading ethereum talking points.. which is the mother asshole of shitcoins.. as Saifedean Ammous if famous for saying.


Yes.. ethereum is a scam that has been producing a lot of profits, so far... I am not going to argue about it or whether I am ignorant or not because I don't give that many shits if you want to invest in that smoke and mirror and ever changing nothing burger that merely is composed of a lot of gobbledy-gook convolution.  Good luck if you believe it is any kind of meaningful long term investment that helps you to understand the world - including understanding bitcoin better.. whether you own any bitcoin or not as compared with ethereum.. that's surely is your choice.

It's good that at least you realized the importance of Bitcoin and how it is good for you and has the potential to give you a given amount. I did not even realize why people go to invest in shitcoin or altcoin when they have a good option which is bitcoin. Altcoin is much better and also give you some big returns but why do people go towards shitcoin which have little or no value and many time is a scam.

As you shared your experience of investing in shitcoins and how you lost your money. People have to learn from you and not invest in shitcoin. Even if it goes high remember it will give you a loss so for that I also recommend staying away from this and investing only in bitcoin or altcoins which are both reliable and give you a healthy return.

I am giving some tips to the newbie or the beginners on to how identify the shit coins or scam ones.
>Stay away from the currency that claims to give you high returns.
>If any currency does not show their team or hide information about the project leave it immediately.
>The currency that is new or has a low market cap does not invest in it.
>And yeah that currency who were promoted by a celebrity or some sort of influencer must give you a tough time so always stay from it also.

These are my own points of view some guys do not agree with me but I know everyone has their own views and I respect them if you have any better suggestiin then please go ahead.

I get you, it's hard to find someone who is passionate about bitcoin but not for investment and profit these days. If you are truly visionary and pro-bitcoin to be what you say it is, then it is understandable that you hate POS or distrust any altcoin. Meanwhile, I just see it all as an investment to improve my finances, we are not on the same opinion.

No one is wrong and no one is right, we cannot impose our thoughts on others. I really respect you if you are here for the bitcoin revolution to bring freedom to the world. But by the way, as an investor, I'm really pessimistic about a world without banks and authorities.

Not just a money game, crypto is also a speculative currency that is utilized by many people who want cheap prices and sell expensive prices.

People will continue to speculate on the price of crypto and have yet to see how widely useful it really is.
Because only a few are doing real adoption.

Government regulations are not free either, with regulations ranging from taxing crypto users and platforms that handle crypto trading.
There are so many criminals in crypto who casually cheat ordinary people without getting any punishment because of unclear crypto regulations.

Your point about saying ETH is a scam is stupid.
If we get x100 to x1000 profit from some scam platform it will not be a problem.

But when we talk about the long term, the real scam platforms will withdraw all the profits if we are not vigilant.
Therefore, choosing the top altcoins with good potential in the future is mandatory.

There is no right and wrong, there is only one who gives advantages and disadvantages.

There is a reason why people don't invest in shit coins, because disappointed will always happen.
Imagine the money you spent on that coin if it was bitcoin you would have been sharing a different story with us today.
Most times even myself, I'm sometimes tempted to invest in them, because by the time you see there publicity whenever they want to launch it, it's always massive with so much promises of potentially that will be attach to it.
 But then, ETH and litecoin has lived a little bit to the test of time, you can give them some credit, But then none can be compared to Bitcoin of course. But on the other hand, you that want to invest, you should have done your due diligence properly so you don't fall a victim, because your money is involved.

This is criminal!!
$8 million dollars  was alot of money for any ICO project standards back then and not to have something to show for today is the likely reason why ICOs became unpopular back then as they failed to have these tokens listed on good exchanges with liquidity ,hence the birth of IEOs to protect investors.

Btw, seeing how all these ICOs dropped in value or failed to take off...does this validate/approve the selling of tokens by Bounty hunters the second they had them because  they feared this would happen ::)

Ethereum started with 70% of coins premined and pre-assigned to various wallets.

Ethereum has a creator, Vitalik Buterin, meaning it's a security. Not a commodity.

Ethereums supply is infinite, meaning it's no scarce at all.

Ethereum moved to PoS where the most rich has higher authority. We already have this system though. We just call it central banks.

Ethereum is programmable and multiple NFTs and tokens were created and then abandonned, leading people to poverty.

I am not ignorant. I just hate it. But of course we live in "free" economies and everyone is allowed to buy anything they want.

Finally, perhaps the word scam isn't proper. But it is the mother of many scams. That's all.

The crypto market has single rule i.e. whenever Bitcoin is up the alts are up too and whenever Bitcoin is down the alts are down too. You can invest in alts to diversify your portfolio but you will get good return only once Bitcoin goes up. So its up to you whether you want to invest in Bitcoin alone or want to add alts in your portfolio too. To me Bitcoin is sole driver of the crypto market and has the ability to go up on its own. No alt has the capability to go up on its own. 

I became emotional when reading this thread. Because the OP mentioned the PumaPay token, and sadly, I lost a lot on this shit token. At the beginning of my trading journey, I started with Bittrex, and somehow I invested in PumaPay.. But later, I realised they seemed to be scammers. I invested 1.5 bitcoins, and eventually I gave up by selling all the shit for 150 dollars after a long holding. So yes, it's quite dangerous to invest in any altcoin. We may lose our portfolio that way. The safest investment is Bitcoin for me now. I learned from my past mistakes. There are a lot of dead and delisted tokens on Coinmarketcap. Though they raised millions, they never delivered anything and didn't focus on investors. They ignore their responsibility and enjoy our funds.

Bitcoin is a good investment people should try and altcoins are favourable sometimes and that is the reason why most investors do invest in them. As long as they already know when Bitcoin is dropping furiously, it is not advised to invest in an althcoin because as Bitcoin is dropping fast those althcoins prices reduces multiple time compared to Bitcoin and altcoins does not increase in a skyrocket way. When Bitcoin is decreasing and it pauses, it is good to invest in that period.

I know you are a bitcoin maximalist and I believe you would also support bitcoin even if it is not an investment and does not bring you profit. So it's not too confusing that you consider all altcoins to be shitcoins and scams no matter what anyone says. That's the toughest stance I've seen from bitcoin maximalists on this forum. But as investors like us, we are looking for profits when we see any opportunity. Then calling all altcoins a scam is not entirely accurate because it still brings us profit.

I'm also not saying I believe in altcoins in the long run or believe it will change the world, what I'm trying to emphasize is the profits we can make from it.

As for a project that can change the world financial system, there is only bitcoin because Satoshi's purpose of creating bitcoin is to replace the current centralized financial system with a more fair and transparent decentralized system. Satoshi did not create bitcoin to be an investment like altcoin projects do, which is the difference with bitcoin.

Altcoins also rely on market hype. When Bitcoin rises, all altcoins will automatically follow the upward movement. We have often seen in the market that altcoins do not completely stand alone, so I say that altcoins are more sensitive to how market sentiment occurs.

diversifying on altcoins? That's not a good way 'this is my own opinion' altcoins always fall uncontrollably so I don't have altcoins in my portfolio anymore, currently only bitcoin is the best just like your belief in bitcoin so far, if you see altcoin profits are bigger then bitcoin will be able to surpass more than altcoins.

What is certain is that we have to invest in something we like and that is our prerogative.

Well, when someone will believe in bitcoin technology is after they buy some BTC even though at this time serious institutional investment is not really happening yet but the more people buy the stronger bitcoin will be and quickly go away from the current situation.

For Alts market hype is Bitcoin price. See top Alts like Ethereum, there is not a single instance where we saw Ethereum going up despite the fact Bitcoin is down. To me there is no existence of crypto market without Bitcoin and that's why I think there is no point in diversifying your crypto portfolio. The diversification may work well in other trading markets like stock or forex but not here. I have this opinion after investing and losing heavily in alts. Just my few Satoshis. 

You have a good point here. Why will a Bitcoin maximalist even show any support for altcoins? Not gonna lie, I've been seeing a lot of Bitcoin maximalist drag down a lot of post that involves altcoin, their comments are full of terms like "scam" and "fraud". I get that they are not a fan of altcoins but that doesn't mean everyone thinks the same as them, there are individuals who legitimately have good investment experience with altcoins.

I guess it has always been bitcoin ever since, but since we are born greedy and would want to diversify our coins as much as possible, then we resort into investing some altcoins hoping that it could also generate decent profits for us. But only few of them survived and the rest have turned into shitcoins. One thing that we only realized now when we suffered consistent losses. However, as long as we prioritize bitcoin and allocate bigger funds on it, I guess we are still not at loss.

Since everyone is looking for greener pastures, I've noticed that people who get involved with bitcoin never want to learn despite what is happening throughout the market. However, once they have a negative experience, they will try other options to see which one will benefit them.  And those who will learn will discover that danger is a part of life, which is what motivates individuals to act in certain ways because they think they might be lucky. That is much better than saving some money. And you're absolutely right about individuals seeking financial freedom.

It is true that once bitcoin drops in price, no altcoins can increase or go against bitcoin. But you are missing one thing, once the bull market appears and bitcoin increases in price, altcoins will also increase in price. But, many altcoins will thrive and increase in price much more than bitcoin. If bitcoin doubles then many altcoins will increase x10 and that is why people prefer to invest in altcoins today.

Diversification in the crypto market is meaningless if you are talking about minimizing risk because as we also mentioned above, if bitcoin goes down in price then no altcoin can go up in price and even many altcoins will disappear from the market. But when it comes to optimizing profits, as I said, altcoins will give better profits than bitcoin.

Although altcoins are typically depended to Bitcoin prices, it's important to include them in your portfolio. Some are worthless, but grouping them together is oversimplified.

Even though Bitcoin is well-known, its important to look past the hype and think about the possibilities of some altcoins. Putting all your eggs in one basket is risky. You may think cryptocurrencies cant be stopped when they collapse, but several have risen and kept stable independent of Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is important, but market fluctuations and crashes can happen. Diversification is a practical approach for reducing risk and increasing profits. Believing there is a single bitcoin investment strategy is not really ideal.

You really know my motive for investing that well, or you believe that you have sufficiently summarized my bitcoin investment thesis and how it might have changed over the years?

I believe that I have had somewhat of a consistent bitcoin investment thesis since I got into bitcoin in 2013, yet at the same time, I have learned more and more about bitcoin since getting into bitcoin, so it is difficult to say what I did versus what I would have did or what I would do because in part I have already been in bitcoin, and fairly active in several ways over the last about 9 and 3/4 years... but I am still not sure what this has to do with me.

You challenged that anyone says ETH is a scam is ignorant.. and it seems that you were being quite hyperbolic in that statement.. whether you are correct or not might be another question.

Ever since Ethereum has come into existence it has been a kind of affinity scam in regards to bitcoin, and surely people have made money on it. but the making of money on a scam still does not seem to remove ethereum's scammy history and even including it seemingly ongoing scammy continued existence.

It would be pretty scary to be putting much if any of your value into that crap without merely feeling as if you are gambling rather than investing, even though many people (who I would suggest to be scammers, dumbasses or innocent people caught up in the nonsense.. and perhaps even pre-coiners.. a kind of temporary dumb status) actually do put value into that smoke and mirrors nonsense.


I doubt that I have ever said that, or at least you seem to be devolving into more exaggerations in terms of trying to summarize my position by attacking me rather than really attempting to think through what I might have been saying or what my position might be.

Generally speaking I would prefer to suggest that there is a presumption that anything but bitcoin is a scam.. especially if they have their own token.. or if they are building on some kind of scam that has its own token. Now if they don't have their own token and they are building on bitcoin. then that may well be another story.  I don't claim to be an expert, but I do claim to presume anything trying to act like it is similar to bitcoin or better than bitcoin and has some kind of a token to mostly be a scam, even though surely there could be some utility in terms of some of the shitcoins and even some abilities to transfer value through some of them in kinds of alternative possibilities outside of bitcoin.. so as I mentioned previously, there could be some reasons to hold some of the various shitcoins, ... maybe even up to 10% of various investment assets could be in shitcoins as compared with bitcoin, and sure there could be reasons to go beyond `10%, but I am not going to automatically presume any of that without some kind of a justification, and the burden would be on you to argue some shitcoins to have any kind of value as compared with bitcoin and/or worthy of investing into whether you are talking about the mother asshole of shitcoins (aka ethereum) or some other shticoin or shitcoin variant.


You are trying to paint me as some kind of an extremist... that sounds like bullshit.  I am completely reasonable.. ..and there are likely forum members who are both more informed than me and also more skeptical of shitcoins and the various ways that people get separated from their money (or distracted in their thoughts. or their abilities to better understand bitcoin).


You are within some kind of a reasonable group?  Are you chasing dollar profits?  How do you define profits?    The more you speak, the more lost you sound.


Again, that does not really sound exactly like what I said.. and also I have not really ever claimed that there might be ways to make profits from shitcoins.  Of course there are ways to make profits, and even moreso if you happen to be some kind of an insider who is scamming others or if you have connections with an insider who is scamming others then maybe you will get the information first to be able to pump and dumb your crap.

I would not really characterize those kinds of behaviors  as investing rather than gambling and/or pumping and dumping crap... and of course, you have the right to do whatever you would like.. but it does not sound very accurate to be describing yourself in terms of taking the high road.

The high road likely relates to mostly (if not exclusively) being in bitcoin.. rather than getting distracted too much into shitcoins, and if you happen to get into shitcoins, then hopefully you are not getting more than 10 % into shitcoins without having some kind of a compelling reason to do so that goes beyond mere gambling and/or engaging in various scams, whether you are the scammer yourself or merely following and supporting scammers while proclaiming that they are not scamming..


No one, including yours truly, is saying that you are not able to make profits from being involved in shitty projects.. but it seems quite distracting if you believe that there is some kind of systematic and/or honest way to get involved in the overwhelming majority of that crap, and if you are holding Ethereum up as your supposed virtue coin, then you really sound lost... .. and again, you are sure free to spend your time, your energies and your money however, you like, but coming into various threads and trying to suggest that you are virtuous or that you are doing good work or that anyone claiming ethereum to be a scam is ignorant likely mostly reflects upon your own ignorance and vacuousness rather than some kind of an enlightened position that you seem to be wanting to proclaim that you hold in your support and/or your involvement in shitcoins, including but not limited to ethereum.


If Satoshi did not design Bitcoin to be an investment, then why is it an investment?  You can invest time, energy and/or monetary value into bitcoin, and it seems that bitcoin has various monetary incentives built into it and that is part of the reason that it works so well, even when being attacked.  There are presumptions that are built into bitcoin that it will be attacked, and it is built to be resilient against various kinds of attacks that could take place and that have been taking place, and part of the reasons for bitcoin's resiliences has to do with monetary incentives that are outcome of it's built-in scarcity.

Various shitcoins are just imitators of bitcoin or they are trying to suck off of the bitcoin teat or to hang onto bitcoin's apron string (like bitcoin serving as a security blanket in which the various scams are allowed (or enabled) to exist because bitcoin provides the strongest security of any system (so far) known to man.

So yeah, not only does bitcoin have built in properties to change world financial systems, bitcoin is so disruptive that it ends up purifying and improving all kinds of monetary incentives and your various shitcoin involvement does not really help to bring any kind of clarity to you or anyone else why there is any value in getting involved in that crap.. even if sure you might be able to figure out some short-term angle in which you are able to eek out some short-term value until you get rug pulled.. but hey you are willing to take chances on those kinds of short-term bets, and those are your choices.  No one can rescue you from yourself, except yourself... .you have to figure out if you may well be putting too much time, energy in money into pump and dump crap when you got a pristine asset like bitcoin that is staring you right in the face.

By the way.. don't get me wrong.  I surely do not expect everyone to figure out that bitcoin is the best asset (even though it is), or that shitcoins will cease to exist, or that normies won't get distracted into investing into inferior products, because it is likely that there are going to be millions of new shitcoins in the next 100 years (maybe even in the next 5 years), and there will be many times in which the shitcoins will outperform bitcoin in the short-term.. and there is no real way of NOT seeing that value will continue to flow into bitcoin, but it may well not flow clearly or straightly.. so anyone (and everyone) is free to get distracted into investing into inferior products... and they are also free to invest into bitcoin.. so there is quite a bit of value to anyone who figures out bitcoin to be the place to be spending the overwhelming majority of their time, energies and value.. even if there might be some better short-term places that such time, energies and value could be placed... and it is up to you the extent to which you get distracted into nonsense and how much value you want to put into crap.


Yes.. the better ways of thinking about diversification tends to be across asset category types rather than within the same asset category.. .. and then within the categories, there could be some value if diversifying if the leader is not known, yet within the "crypto asset" category anyone should realize that bitcoin is the only one that really matters, so then if there are desires to diversify, then it should be into other asset categories such as property, equities, commodities (bitcoin could serve as this too), bonds and/or cash/cash equivalents.


Part of the value of the forum is that we do not need to agree, and you are free to make your various arguments and/or counter-arguments (if you have any) and also you should be making up your own mind, as well, regarding whether and how to invest into bitcoin or any other place (including into shitcoins) that you choose to spend your time, energies and value.


I doubt that any turned into shitcoins.  An overwhelming majority (if not all of them?) were already shitcoins from the beginning, but you were happy with them as long as their price was going up.


In terms of investing,  if you do not recognize bitcoin as the leader of the sector, then you likely do not understand bitcoin or the sector.

Now, if you are fucking around with pump and dump and trading, then that is a different set of skills (and or scams) and you can surely profit more in shitcoins, trading and scams than a pure bitcoin approach as long as you play your skills properly and/or you have decent and actionable information that ends up working out for you in those shorter term kinds of plays.


That comment makes no sense.  Bitcoin has not gone away.. so your elusion that some kind of a shitcoin is independent of bitcoin, then you better actually describe which one (examples) you are talking about.


You really are pumping the practicing of a shitcoin strategy. and diversification generally is across asset classes not within the same asset category..   Yeah you can diversify how you gamble too.. and hopefully people are not gambling when they choose their bitcoin allocation.. how they accumulate bitcoin, what their BTC accumulation targets might be and then how they might attempt to maintain their BTC stash once they get it up to their target level.

I still remember some of the project I invested in, and I can say the same that most of those project was turns into dust. They always promise something big like 'the next Bitcoin' or 'better than Ethereum' but none of them could deliver the promised product. This investment mostly happened on the ICO boom like 4 years ago, tho there might be some projects that actually booming, and the profit is quite satisfying, I still learned from those mistake, and now like more than 80% of my portfolio is on Bitcoin, and I barely invest in any new project.

This rule will likely be broken in the coming bull market. Bitcoin dominance is increasing and many altcoins are failing... this means investors are realizing that most of these altcoins are shitcoins. If this trend continues, the hyped altcoin season may never come even when Bitcoin will be soaring. Ofcourse there will be few of the altcoins that will attempt to following Bitcoin but the number is steadily reducing. FTX is out, Luna is out.... these were solid projects yet failed. Who knows the next!

I know a lot of smart guys including the founders of most of these shitcoins are already converting their bag to Bitcoin as that is the only way to have peace. Anyone hoping to go to the moon with a bag of over-hyped altcoin might actually meet his Waterloo

I also experienced the same. Many of my coins have no development, some dropped their prices significantly, and some have been dead coins. There are few coins only that seem to have potential progress in the future. So, it is always difficult to expect secure investment on altcoins, specifically for the new altcoins. The chance of the projects to fail is always high although they have big communities, raise to the top 50 coins on CMC quickly, and become popular in a short time. In many cases, the projects only set the targets to bring the hypes, so they can collect huge money from investors as quick as possible. After they get the money, the teams/developers will tend to stop their focus on the projects. They are getting rarely to keep in touch to the community. And finally, they disappear and the tokens will be delisted on the exchanges.

Well, PumaPay is just one of the examples of the projects having the same scheme like I described above.  :'(

Looking for another source of profit is not being greedy, IMO.  It is just taking the possible opportunity that we can make a profit while waiting for our other investment to mature.  It is more likely using our time to maximize profit.  It is not bad if we have extra funds and have already invested in Bitcoin to look for another means of profit.  The international law does not forbid anyone to diversify and look for another source of profit, as long as we do our own research and there is a possibility to mitigate risk to its minimum, then it isn't bad to invest in other cryptocurrencies.

Investment in another cryptocurrency is not need for that cryptocurrency to survive the market, since the essence of investment is making profit, we can always cash out whenever we see profit and get out of that cryptocurrency.

As one of the thread here stated: Never marry cryptocurrency.  We must get out if the profit is realized.  Sticking for too long when the target is realized just to make our profit bigger is what I call being greedy.

Yeah and in times like this were you need 1000 + in investment to make a reasonable amount those 1000 invested in a non crypto endeavour is most likely a safer bet.

Bitcoin never offers such a thing but altcoins do especially new projects. And you are the one for those fake believers and those who think always about money and rewards.

That is the reason why we should not just look upon their promises and big rewards but we must look is the use case of the project. Of course, being developers will attract investors in order to make a profit, and one of the most effective strategies is to promise them something attractive...Those greedy individuals and lack of market experience will usually fall into the wrong investment.

There have been a few meme coins that did very well in the past, but you are right that the majority of these coins didn't do well at all. I am sorry you focused heavily on these coins and not bitcoins itself. So many different projects without a specific goal where doomed from the start. During a boom period where a lot of outside capital flows into the crypto world the flaws might not have been noticed by many investors. Still, I always recommended to put 80% of our money in bitcoin and only use 20% for meme and alt coins. That 80/20 split I have seen used by many other forum users. And if you were early in the crypto markets, your returns on bitcoin should make up any meme coin losses. Also wasn't there just last week a big article that almost all NFTs are worthless now? We are living in uncertain times and investors are much more cautious with their money. I wouldn't sell all other projects, there are still chances to make a profit.

Use case? So can you tell me if there are any cryptocurrency projects that have been put into practical use yet? Or is it all just empty theories or empty promises that they often say? In my opinion, investing in altcoins is speculation. If you have made profits, you should take profits and ignore them immediately. There are no projects with practical applications or any technologies that bring benefits to society. So far, only bitcoin can be used as a means of payment and store of value, the rest are just rubbish for speculation and gambling. If you want to invest in technology, it's best to learn about real growing technology companies out there, don't believe what crypto projects say.

That is the trouble, if you buy an altcoin then there is a chance that you will lose all your money, and if not and it goes well, then there is a chance it could crash later on as well, so it is not really a smart move to keep trying your luck way too much, you should try to avoid that. With bitcoin you know you are going to do fine, and it is not going to be terrible. I know that it is not that smart for a while, but then it is going to get better and better.

I personally hope that people can see that eventually. I think with bitcoin you are investing into something that you can see the future of, not clearly, not exact numbers, not exact date, but you know that it will go up in the future and that is more than enough to most people.

Even though I think that 20% is too much to allow to be invested into shitcoins (10% at most into shitcoins.. but hey we can agree to disagree), it is at least some kind of a recognition that an overwhelming majority should be in bitcoin.. ...

Over the years, I have surely seen so many shitcoiners who have no bitcoin or they might have only a 10% to 20% allocation to bitcoin.. which seems completely lacking in knowledge in regards to what bitcoin is....

By the way, don't get me wrong, it is helpful for anyone to think through what are there various allocations and to consider why they allocating the amounts that they are.. including considering their timeline for various investments, so there surely could be some reasonable justifications that would allow people to conclude to take more risks .. which does end up in decisions to ONLY have smaller amounts of the crypto-investments allocated to bitcoin.. but then of course, we have our broader investment portfolio too..

At the end of 2014, after I had already been in bitcoin for a year, I had considered that the amount that I invested in bitcoin would be 10% of my overall investment portfolio, but after March 2020, I started to recommend 1-25% to be allocated to bitcoin, and of course, my own investment in bitcoin ended up being around 13.5% in late 2015, but that grew to nearly 90% as compared with my other investments in 2017 and then shrunk back to 45%-ish and then is currently around 70%.. so I am not even necessarily suggesting the necessity for any reallocations of a winning asset.. so when we consider allocations within our overall investment portfolio versus allocations within crypto (bitcoin versus shitcoins), those are two separate questions, but they still may well have real world ramifications, including that there may be a large number of folks who do not hardly have any investments besides "crypto" which is potentially problematic, but also screwing up their own concepts of how diversification should be considered and put into practice in regards to their own financial/psychological circumstances and/or their investment(gambling) goals.

Unfortunately, I have not been involved in any of the meme coins that did well. In my days of Ignorance, I have invested into several of those meme coins,  even some with solid marketing and huge hype yet they all failed. My experience is enough to make me conclude that they are not worth it.

I am not disputing the fact that some would have made money from meme coins, I know few that did.... I guess luck played in their favour.


I think 20% to meme coins is way too high for me. Why will I commit 20% of my investment funds to something I don't believe in.... pure low probability gambling. Even though I will not even give it a thought, I think single digit percentage of investment funds should not be bad. After all, it is believed that meme coins can easily give x100 in profits. Assuming you have $10k to invest and you decide to use 5% of that, that will be $500 investment. If you split this into five meme coins and one of them achieves x100, that will be $10k representing a profit of $9,500. This is huge.

Those who have experienced huge losses from those altcoins or shitcoins, surely they will never invest in them again to avoid another losses. But for those who are still new in the market, I still think they will still be deceive with those too good to be true altcoins. They’re actually cheap compared to bitcoin so if you invest because of greed, you will chose to invest in them and expect maximum profits.

Yep.  Those are the kinds of calculations that shitcoiners do, instead of staying focused.. .but yeah, to stick to the 80/20 rule, if they had a $10k budget and choose to invest $500 into each of their chosen shitcoins, then they would ONLY be able to invest into 4 shitcoins without going over their 20% cap. .. so then they will conclude that they have to pick more coins, and then they end up having difficulties staying focused on bitcoin..

Of course another thing is that there should be some kind of conscientious due diligence in trying to figure out which shitcoins to research into and then to invest and then to watch them and to figure out various strategies in regards to each coin, including what kinds of events might trigger needs to take action, such as selling some or all of their coin.  Sure, we can suppose that it could be fun to learn about some of the various shitcoin projects and to watch them... and maybe they will figure out some kind of a system that works for them.  Perhaps?


That is part of the reason that they are not going to be able to even stick with a 80/20 rule unless they flip it, and even then it can get so tempting to reduce bitcoin further because once they go down the diluting of their investment portfolio, there are always more and more new shitcoins demanding some of that allocation.

That is the jargon they use in luring people into their scam. If you read the whitepaper of most of them, you might likely be deceive into thinking they are building something workable. They spend so much money hiring supposed experts and contracting celebrities most times to improve the marketing. At the end of getting the funding they needed, it is usually from one excuse to  another. I remember projects claiming to be building an ecosystem for global waste collection. They packaged this so well that people actually thought they were serious. As usual, they collected the money and rolled out series of excuses before people counted their losses and moved on.

Have you noticed that most of those shitcoins promoters that claim to have a product usually list their token in exchanges even before the product is ready? If they actually planned to build a real product, they would have waited until the product is ready and in use before they list their token.


There is no better way to put it than this. Being able to make profits from altcoins is a great achievement and most times, the profit can evaporate if wisdom is not applied.

If someone has had a negative experience with Ethereum or if it doesn't align with their specific goals or may not fall under the required criteria, it doesn't necessarily mean they should categorically dismiss it. Just as you mentioned, Ethereum is a scam. Ethereum remains a crucial part of the cryptocurrency ecosystem and is widely used for various purposes, including investment, etc.
Categorizing Ethereum as a scam would indeed be inaccurate, given its substantial role and established reputation in the world of cryptocurrencies. It's important to assess each cryptocurrency individually, considering its unique features, use cases, and potential, rather than making blanket judgments.

I agree that not all Altcoins can be labeled as just "shitcoins" because there are Altcoins that meet the standard of profitability. So, it is common knowledge that not all Altcoins are "buckcoins" and not all "shitcoins" are Altcoins.

Hi man. I like the way you approach this subject, but I agree with JayJuanGee. I have posted some very specific arguments here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5467201.msg62891410#msg62891410) in regards to why I believe Ethereum to be a scam. I 'd be glad to hear your thoughts, I may learn something. Just like everyone else's too.

I think that it is a good idea to make blanket judgements in regards to that mother of all scams, ethereum that facilitates other coins to also scam through the various easy of the creation of more and more scams on top of the already existing scam.

And, sure I don't claim to know everything that is going on with that piece of crap, but it surely is also a kind of affinity scam too. .in terms of the various rhetoric to make it appear as if POS is actually contributing to the world and saving the planet as compared to bitcoin's use of energy for POW. .which is purely nonsense and promoted in a lot of circles.. so good to call a spade a spade, and in this case good to make sure to continue to reiterate the various ways that people should not be fucking around with ethereum, even if it might pump at various points..

...and that ethereum has various other scams built upon it, including BIG companies included in dumb efforts to build upon misleading kinds of systems that are being suggested to be adding value that is competitive and/or better than bitcoin, which truly those are lies even if rich people, institutions and/or governments might be getting involved in supporting such phony baloney.. but lots of institutions and governments are used to promoting phony balloney when they are propping up various fiat systems that ongoingly involve lying to people in regards to value creation that does not really exist in the ways that it is claimed to exist...


You and everyone else would still be better off to presume any other project that includes a coin or a token (that is not bitcoin) as being a shitoin, a scam and/or something that is really not adding any value unless they can prove themselves otherwise rather than trying to give any of them any kind of benefit of the doubt in regards to their not being a shitcoin, as scam or something that is not adding any value....

Another waste of time, engergies and money  to be engaging in efforts to figure out which shit coin happens to be less shitty than the other shitcoin... a pretty dumb investment thesis to be attempting to figure out which coin is the less of the shitty coins, especially when we have bitcoin staring us in the face and a better way to go would be with a positive investment thesis in terms of investing in bitcoin and figuring out bitcoin and also putting at least 90% of your crypto value investment into bitcoin before even screwing around with other dumb shit things that have pump and dump coins that are likely not really worth wasting your time, money and/or energy with.

a dram we all have mate, to turn back time and return when we first met Bitcoin and sell all our assets to buy bitcoin and so for now we are millionaire .

but that is what past is , for us to learn , yeah the price of bitcoin maybe High now yet ? it is never too late , we can still purchase and save for the future, it might not be for us but for our children and love one.

That last part is what we are all believing now , have tried buying and even holding some good coins but none that brings me what i have got in bitcoin for 2 Bull marketing now .

so yes ONLY BITCOIn .

Why do many people like to talk about the past and always wish to return to the past while we still have a future? There is still enough time and opportunity for us to start everything again, and if we really regret the past and don't want that mistake to repeat in the future, then we should act now. Focus on bitcoin and stay away from altcoins.


I don't hate people who invest in altcoins because it's their choice and they're investing with their own money, it all doesn't affect me so there's no reason to hate them. But I have also learned about altcoins, so I will focus mainly on bitcoin and believe it is the best long-term investment.

I don't always care about the past, what is gone is gone, the only time I feel sad about my past is because it involved a lot life, I miss my father and I wish he is still here, but for anything financial, there is no point holding on to the past.

Also, those of you complaining about a coin that turned shit, would you do the same if the opposite happened? If LUNA never collapsed and it turn holders into big whales today will you all be out here complaining?

Why are we hearing about the dead coins? What about those that are still very good right even while bears are taking over the market? Any Polygon whale on here? It's was 0.004$ per Polygon years ago and holding till date still makes you a whale isn't it?

People tend to complain only when things are not going fine, we should learn to share the happy stuffs on here too, many alts are crap but not all of them will fail, you can't rely on a single coin and call it a crypto portfolio.

Even though that's what happened to you, I see that you have learned a lesson from what you did in your past investing in Pumapay, and at least now you appreciate better that Bitcoin is a good investment compared to other cryptocurrencies. Although there are also other altcoins that can actually provide us with good savings in the future,

You know the truth: all of us here in the community of the platform want to have large holdings in Bitcoin. The only problem is that most of us don't have a lot of money to do it. But instead, the method we are trying to use now is the DCA so that, at least little by little, we can accumulate Bitcoin.

There is a saying that "those who forget their past always repeat the mistakes of the past". Talking about the past is not a sign of frustration in the process but a way of appreciating where we are coming from, the mistakes and lessons learnt and how to be better positioned for the future.

Besides, there are lots of new members who can learn from these stories and make better investment decisions by avoiding our mistakes. So, the post might actually have achieved the intended purpose


There is no hate whatsoever! Why will you hate someone for making decisions that affects only them. It is their money and how they use it is entirely up to them. The post is only intended to share ideas while the decision on future cause of action rest with individuals.

And that is also the difference between bitcoin and shitcoin. Bitcoin was never advertised by Satoshi as bringing profit, bringing wealth to anyone, he only said that it will bring us freedom and no longer be censored by anyone or not must depend on a third party. Meanwhile, I have not seen any altcoin claim that they are bringing technology to change the world, instead they always talk about profits. It can be said that they openly scam us, but most of them don't pay attention.

Thats one thing about all this new tokens that keeps pumping up everytime and its mostly a repeat of previous project ideas that never succeeds. its crazy and its not going to stop. most of it is just paper based ideas that never gets really implemented. the question i ask is that if bitcoin adoption is a struggling battle do you think other altcoins will succeed? i think these altcoins are good to increase your portfolio especially if you join early, but a major hodl should be bitcoin.

The past is like a ghost - its there, but you cant touch it, and it doesnt help anyone to feel bad about money. Your words make me think of an old saying: "You can't plow a field by turning it over in your mind." Im very sorry to hear about what happened to your dad. When you lose something important to you, the past weighs on you.

On to the coin, huh? Isn't that how life is? We talk about the bad times and the coins that have lost value, but how often do we talk about the things that are going well? You are right on! If LUNA had gone through the roof, people would be humming a different tune. Polygon is a good example, right? From 0.004 dollars to turning holders into whales.

Lets really share more of what's good. The world already has enough bad news. In bitcoin, diversification is the name of the game. If you put these eggs in different bags, one bad egg wont ruin the rest. Cheers to looking ahead and finding crypto's next big thing!

Diversification is code for buy shitcoins, and there is no need to buy shitcoins.

size of your position is likely the name of the game.

If you are new to investing including bitcoin, you may well spend 1-10 years just building up your investment portfolio up to a sufficient size that it is warranting the consideration of diversification.. so maybe you don't really need any diversification until the size of your investment becomes 20% to 50% of your annual salary (expenses) or even higher than that.

There is not need to diversify for the mere sake of diversification.. especially if you are considering the buying of shitcoins as your version of "diversification."

Actual diversification would be across asset classes rather than within the same asset class, so someone who is invested into bitcoin might consider diversifying into equities, property, commodities (although bitcoin is already a commodity), bonds and cash (or cash equivalents)...

Yet, again, even if we know what diversification means, it still is not necessary to diversify when you are a relatively new investor until you get up to a certain investment size. Otherwise you are just diluting whatever it is that you are investing into meaninglessness... For example, if you are ONLY investing $10 to $100 per week, it is going to take a bit of time to get up to a meaningful amount, and if you are on the lower end of the range, then please tell me what the fuck purpose is there to dividing $10 into smaller parts?  merely to proclaim: "I am diversified?"

Oh no!
This is a bit funny to see someone thinking of splitting 10$ into equal two parts because I can see how frustrating it's for someone to speak of diversification and yet still on a same circle of investment being digital assets. If actually someone really wants to diversify then I can say acquiring a landed properties is another pretty cool ways of investment instead circling around same investment and between, known to be altcoin that aren't trusted oh have a solid foundation to say we can fully rely on them for long run.

Naturally from my experience so far I won't think of diversifying my portfolio with garbages of shitcoin that I know if there are strong or any hard wave that comes within the bear season, those coin could hardly survive the pressure from the market which might still leads to dump and whenever a coin (tokens) is being dump it stir up a serious FUD between the holders to which would possibly leads to seriously panic for them offload those garbages that was loads as diversification of investment. The truth be told people don't like sticking into one investment especially wanting to utilize every single opportunities by trying to play smart game to take profits from other altcoin without knowing they are endangering themselves the more. Presently hold bitcoin is of the most important thing to do.

I don't think any of your words are deniable; it is true that altcoins are not reliable, and that is why they are worth not holding for long periods of time. There may be a few projects out there claiming to be strong, but despite having been there for many years, I don't think I can trust any of them because I have seen similar projects that eventually became scam projects. The fact that those altcoins claim to be the strongest is that they still have not directed their own price but are following the direction of the Bitcoin price, and some times they even lost the direction by not following the pattern of the Bitcoin price, so I just see them as pump and dump coins.
 
I can say I have had much experience with these altcoins because I was introduced to Bitcoin before all these altcoins, so even when I started to know about them, I was not much interested in them, and with the help of the forum again, I lost interest in them at all. So even when I invested in one of these altcoins, it was for a very small amount.

Experience in  crypto investment adventure has taught some of us unlucky starters a lot that we had to lose the little funds we had before we got to know about the real deal BTC . Anyone still caught up in those shitcoins hodling is like someone who driving on 180 on a free wheel you're bound to crash at any time. If I had knew about bitcoin from the very first day I took out money to invest on a cryptocurrency and if it had been bitcoin I invested on only heaven knows how much I would have made as profit by now in the sense that the plan was to hodl it for long buy unfortunately it was on  a pump and dump  token . It's a lesson .

Diversification is necessary because sometimes people put money in new coins which offers a beneficial platform for them to get better revenue. We know that every other coin is totally dependent on bitcoin but we also know that how expensive bitcoin is.

Only few individuals are able and skilled to purchase bitcoin but most of the individuals living here are not moneyed enough to purchase bitcoin therefore when they hear about halving so they purchase multiple other coins as they know that halving absolutely will change the value of such coins in that direction in which bitcoin moves.

diversification in other field is also full of advantages like if a person is a part of business or job and at a same time continue his bitcoin investment then there will be a greater chance of successful diversification as if one market is down other will be up to offer you desirable outcomes.

There's actually point in diversifying your portfolios. The existence of one thing lead to another and so it is in the crypto space. Having all your eggs in one basket is not ideal. I'm not actually saying that bitcoin is going to fail you and the alt coin saving you or vice versa. The alt coins have their time and they're not in competition with bitcoin at all. Alt coin are also not meant for long time holding like bitcoin but rather look for opportunity and milk from them when their time comes. But remember that whatever you do in crypto space is all about risk. It might work in your favor some time while some other time it may not work well for you. You just have to gamble, if you win you celebrate and if otherwise, you learn some lesson.

If you like risk and are looking for higher returns, diversifying into altcoins may be right for you. But if you seek safety, diversifying with altcoins is pointless because the entire market will cease to exist when bitcoin disappears.
But I agree with your thoughts, altcoins are not suitable for long-term holding, they are only suitable for speculation. We can gamble with them with a small amount of capital and should withdraw as soon as we make a profit, don't believe in any promises from those shitcoin projects.

I never knew when I bursted into laughter seeing this your comment. @JJG really have this unique way of creating emphasis; Obviously, the point is clear now. $10 is truly the case of "he that is down need fear no fall". Actually, and if we want to be realistic with ourselves, anyone who cannot afford  $10 per week should get a job and put investment on hold. This is because if you are not sure of $10 per week, it means the person need help and there is the possibility that if such a person have investment in Bitcoin, the investment will not survive within a short time because it is someone that have eaten and is alive that will think about investment. Even when we emphasis the need for someone to start making investment now in preparation for the future, we should also encourage people to put effort at securing stable and reliable sources of income so that the investment will just be a case of saving for the rainy days.

Thankfully, we are in the era of internet where there are many ways of getting money. From content creation to freelancing, there are so much one can do to generate income even if it is not big. It is when the source of income is secured that investment will be possible and comfortable to embark on.

Does this mean you still have some shitcoins you are hoping they will rise again? It is truly a difficult situation to be in. If you are lucky to see any or some of them come back alive, you already know what to do because you never can tell if such opportunity will ever come again.

Diversification is vital, indeed. But lets be clear here. Not all diversifications gives you. Some lead to a diversified portfolio of losses (lol). Yes, putting money in different coins could increase the opportunity. But lets not forget, other coins, despite their low price, they indeed riskier than bitcoin

Bitcoin's price is steep. However, its the most well-known, the one that most altcoins try to mimic the price. You mentioned halving and buying multiple other coins. Its a strategy, sure. But remember, halving events are already priced in, and the market reacts in its unpredictable ways.

Yes, having different income streams is beneficial. Bitcoin investment alongside a business or job? A good play. But diversification is not just about scattering funds. Its about smartly allocating them, understanding each asset's dynamics, and staying vigilant in the constantly shifting financial world.

One reason why some people fall victim to most of those altcoin projects is because of their greed to make too much profit due to the promises that are made by those projects. For example, during a project's ICO, they could have like two phases: the first phase, where they can decide to sell their coin for $0.4, and the second phase, where they could sell the coin for $0.08, after which they will make an announcement on their exchange listing date, where they can tell investors that the listing price will be $2 or $3, but investors will get disappointed that the token will later get listed even at a lesser price than the ICO price.

I don't like altcoins, and whoever's dealing with altcoins should be greatly aware that they are into a game of profit and loss, more like gambling.

I came across post that speaks about ICO period how it was scheme to extort investors their hand earned money and lot of people fell victim of it and projects owners were raising lots of money through ICO and IEO, IDO although I also made little research about it. After my research and knowledge gathered here so far I decided to distance whatever called altcoin especially those that are newly doing their sales in form of seeding and whatever they called fundraising, that's where most people got it twisted without knowing they are only being attracted to have their little savings stolen away from them. However I still give all my trust and reliability to bitcoin, I must not learned from what happened to others before it happens to me.

Nonsense.  Diversification is not necessary. You are repeating a lie in at least a couple of ways:  1) you are misusing the term diversification to suggest that it applies to shitcoins or to investing into assets that are already largely correlated to bitcoin and  2) the practice of diversification (if it is helpful) is most applicable accross industry sectors, not within the same industry (or sectors).. so think bitcoin, stocks, property, commodities, bonds and cash/cash equivalents.. shitcoins ar not a separate sector they are related to bitcoin... largely as affinity scams.


That's dumb.

Just because others do it does not make it a good plan. or even make it necessary to do... sure you can fuck around with those coins on a short term basis, but it is not a good long term plan because you better know how to get in and out and how to not overallocate to such pump and dump crap.


There is nothing wrong with the concept of diversification, especially once one might start to get to a level of savings/investments in which it starts to matter.. but overly diversification can also be a lack of focus.. so there should be some balance in terms of how much time, money and energies that people can spread themselves out in order to get such diversification balance which will also partly depend upon how much time money and energy they have too.. so it is not a given that diversification is a good idea for all people in all situations.


That is a dumb and a false premise.

Shitcoins are not going to save you if bitcoin fails.


They might not be competing with bitcoin, but they are not adding you any kind of protection in the event that bitcoin were to go down.  Only ill-informed people think those kinds of things.. You have to really not know what bitcoin is if you are going to conclude that some shitcoin is going to succeed in the event that bitcoin is not doing well.


Another dumb reason to invest into something.. and you are admitting that shticoins are not an investment.  They are merely an in and out play.. so yeah, sure you can invest into some shitcoins, but it better not be more than 10% of the value of your bitcoin holdings, and maybe even 10% would be too much and  you surely are saying that if you do happen to fuck around with shitcoins you better know when to get in and when to get out, too.

Sure you are largely admitting that shitcoins are gambling, and surely gambling is not a very good investment approach.


Long term investors need to think about both upside and downside. not just upside.. so yeah if you are investing in shitcoins because you want upside, then surely you have to make sure that you are able to get out without getting too worried about holding them for the long term.. or hopefully not getting trapped into holding them longer than you should.


I doubt that the bitcoin halvening is priced in... and the fact that you are already admitting that the market reacts in unpredictable ways likely shows that the halvening is not priced in.


This makes some sense in terms of the tailoring that anyone should be attempting to perform when they decide the extent to which they should spread themselves out.

We keep seeing people tells others to diversify but looking at the currency they are promoting are loads of shitcoins that mostly has no future at all.
they seems not to understand the meaning of safety investing ,  and with that Only can guaranteed with 100% sure of returning the favor though sometimes it may took years to taste.
even how high the price of bitcoin now , but purchasing the value or the amount you can afford to altcoin is the one that will make you a full secured and worth a wait investing.

People who say that investing in altcoins is diversification are people who don't know the meaning of diversification in investing, and they are just repeating what others have said. Everyone knows that the cryptocurrency market depends on bitcoin, if bitcoin falls then no altcoin will be able to rise, so what is diversification in this case?
Furthermore, is diversification really as good as many people are saying? I really don't see any use in it if our goal is to find the best profit. I mean, we all know bitcoin is the best rising asset and if we just invest 50% in them and 50% in gold. That doesn't help us maximize our profits, it only reduces our profits. On the contrary, if we focus 100% on bitcoin, our profits will be maximum. Diversification should only be applied when you have a large amount of capital and want safety over profits, it is not effective for small investors like us.

I think the number one rule that exists in investing is not "diversification" but rather "know what you own". Owning small altcoins just to make profit is gamble, unless you have strong fundamental conviction on why those altcoins are superior to other tokens. The same applies to stocks and fiat currencies.

Personally, when I buy an asset, I try to ask myself "why I think this asset will give me more financial freedom in the future?". I have extremely high conviction in Bitcoin for multiple reasons and I am a Bitcoin-only holder but! this doesn't mean I don't own other assets. Of course I do, but not from the cryptocurrency world. Diversification is indeed important, but buying altcoins doesn't mean you can diversify well enough.

Another point to be made is that most altcoins exist on Ethereum's blockchain. Here is a list: https://cryptoslate.com/blockchain/ethereum/. This instantly gives super power to Ethereum, which you must never forget, is PoS, meaning the highest bidder can change the rules.

That's right, if you want to share the risks, then you should not do it in altcoins, which will most likely only increase your risk of losing money, but these should be more reliable investments. I believe that the main idea is to transfer the profits from cryptocurrencies to more conservative investments, business, real estate or other sources with which you are familiar. Often, everything happens the other way around: people make a profit in the real sector and transfer money to crypto, and it’s good if it’s Bitcoin.

The altcoin market is not like gambling, more precisely, it is pure gambling disguised as investment. I find it funny that even traditional companies with solid potential like Apple or Google. They all have real products and are making billions of dollars every day, but they have never dared to confirm to shareholders that they will definitely be profitable. Meanwhile, cryptocurrency projects have no specific products other than ideas listed on paper, always affirms that it will bring high profit rates to investors, LOL.

Altcoins are gambling and if anyone wants to get rich quickly they can throw money into it, but don't regret losing or blame bitcoin as a scam after losing money with altcoins.

Bitcoin is the only coin to hold for a long time to earn from cryptocurrency. A person can earn good amount from Bitcoin if he invests for a long time. There were many tokens in the past that are now dead, and investors who invested in those tokens lost a lot of money. Most shitcoins pump for a short period of time, but later those coins turn into scams, once those coins die they have no value. That's why if you want to make a video, you must think about it. If we invest for the purpose of making a profit, we can never invest in any other coin except Bitcoin. Investing in Bitcoin alone is possible to make a profit, and will always incur losses and lose money.

Many coins have tried to compete with BTC in the past but they all failed. Even some hi cap altcoins you think will never die easily, they also fade away sometimes. But one thing about Bitcoin is that it is always there and always strong. Even when people will say that bitcoin is dead, it will prove them wrong and resurrect. Bitcoin has died so many times.
Anyone who doesn't want to gamble with their money should embrace bitcoin as many altcoins are just gambling coins which might give you big profit today and mare you tomorrow.

I realized a long time ago that no crypto other than bitcoin is trustworthy. You can try your luck and invest in a funny token, but most likely you will be left with nothing.

Bitcoin is an asset that we should have for the future. Because Bitcoin has a limited supply and of course if Bitcoin has been completely mined. Then we will see big changes occur, either it will increase the price of Bitcoin due to soaring demand, or it will become increasingly difficult to get because holders will hold onto their Bitcoin and don't want to sell at a cheap price. So in this context we can take advantage of the opportunity to continue buying and holding Bitcoin while Bitcoin is still below its highest price.

In fact, if you look at what has happened so far, of course the Altcoin holders have experienced huge losses because coin prices have fallen by almost 99%, such as Luna and FTX :D. So forget altcoins and choose Bitcoin as the safest asset for us to invest in the long term. I even see that many of those who entered from 2015 or above are now making quite large profits from holding Bitcoin for a long period of time. So there's nothing wrong with following their steps by buying and holding in the long term.

I have never seen any altcoin trying to compete with bitcoin because in the end if this is likened to a caste system the actual difference remains very different because bitcoin is the king and altcoins are only able to follow not rival.
That is a definite condition because since I have known crypti no one can really compete with bitcoin as a whole because they will not be able to.
Saying bitcoin is dead is just one of the alibis where those who can't get bitcoin at low prices and they start trying to attack some weak people in holding bitcoin to sell their assets.

There is a power within compounding and exponentials... so if the BTC price is going up through the years, and maybe not very clearly over a few years, but over a cycle or two, you are able to see a kind of stablizing and building upon itself in such a way that after a certain passage of time, it becomes quite difficult to push the BTC price below certain price points. 

So for example in 2013, when I first got into bitcoin it was likely becomeing more and more difficult to go below $100, and then after the BTC price went up to $1,163 and then corrected back down into the $100s.. it started to become quite difficult for the price to even go below $200.. .. even though bitcoin naysayers were proclaiming that we would be seeing double digit bitcoin. .but it did not end up happening.. .and the same was true after 2017 when people were proclaiming that we would be seeing BTC prices in the $1,000-ish arena, and the lowest it got was $3,124.. and even had a lot of that time that it was mostly above $6k, and probably the same is becoming true in regards to $20k being much more difficult to breach.. but surely $10k is difficult to breach, and if you have been into bitcoin for a while, then you likely have been accumulating BTC for quite lower prices, and there were many opportunities to accumulate bitcoin for less than $10k before late 2020.. and even if there were periods above $10k, there were a hell of a lot of opportunties to accumulate bitcoin below $10k prior to late 2020.. so it seems quite likely that sub - $10k coins is gone forever...   ..

and there is also likely going to be a time in which sub $30k coins are no longer a possibility.. even though we cannot really know how long it is going to take before we can start to feel a certain level of confidence that the BTC price will never go below $30k again.. just likely we can have a certain amount of increasing levels of confidence that BTC prices will never go below $10k, $1k, and/or $100... It is not guaranteed.. but fairly high levels of confidence begin to develop with the further distance that the BTC price gets from those prices and also that certain lower prices become harder and harder to achieve.. and it surely already could be the case that sub $20k will never be seen again, even though a lot of people seem to be thinking that sub-$20k has decent odds of happening... but we are already below the 200-week moving average for extended periods of time (which is currently at $27,903 and going up at nearly $14 per day (https://www.lookintobitcoin.com/charts/200-week-moving-average-heatmap/)), and it is just starting to seem unrealistic to be expecting BTC prices to even stay below the 200-week moving average for as much time as it has already been spending below the 200-week moving average in the last year and a half.

I consider ETH to be different among the altcoins that we usually think about. But of course, Bitcoin seems to be the leading coin in the crypto space which allows a holder to earn a profit, unlike those project that looks promising, raising millions during pre-sale but has no substantial to continue growing. This is the reason why we become confident of accumulating Bitcoin despite the risk because of such profitability features that most altcoins don't have. Though I invested a few altcoins, still Bitcoin got huge chunks of my investment capital.

You are not the only person going through a similar experience, there are so many others who may have suffered worse as a result of misplacing their money. Many trends have passed with various fundamentally weak coins, DEFI, NFT and other shitcoins, almost the majority of these coins have disappeared from circulation which has caused huge losses for investors.

Only Bitcoin, always Bitcoin and forever Bitcoin will be a safe store of value. When you have a suitable and safe place to store value, never ignore it because everything else is just temporary hype. Meanwhile, Bitcoin has been proven to be able to withstand major shocks such as difficult times during Covid and other negative news spread by parties who feel their business is threatened by the presence of Bitcoin.

Yes.. ethereum is different from the vast majority of other shitcoins because it is the mother shitcoin out of whose asshole many other shitcoins flow. (thank Saifedean Ammous for this expression)  Does not make ethereum very special in terms of not being a shitcoin, being worthy to invest into in the long term and/or not being vulnerable towards going to zero quickly.


You are already starting out bad in your description of what bitcoin is.  

bitcoin is not merely a leading coin.. it is the coin that set forth the standard, and the other various shitcoins are trying to emulate it or to proclaim that they are better, and maybe they are not really doing anything but figuring out a way to print their own coin to make founders and other early adopters rich in the style of various ponzi schemes.

So bitcoin is in another category. .to the extent that it cannot be replicated in ways that shitcoiners try to set forth as if it were actually possible.


I agree with this last part of your post.. even though from my perspective the set up in order to reach your conclusions was not that great.. but hey whatever, you do you... and I will do me and object from time to time.

Bitcoin is the best currency to invest in the crypto market and long term investment yields good returns while investing in any other currency is far less certain. Altcoins rise in value depending on bitcoin. There are many sheet coins in the crypto market they do not last long in the market investors suffer a lot if they invest they lost everything. Therefore, you should have a good idea about which currency to invest in know when that currency comes to the market how much the maximum market rate has risen what kind of profit will be available in the future. Bitcoin is the world's future finance in cryptocurrencies investing in this field is definitely a smart thing to do. Even if other currencies are threatened there is no negative impact on bitcoin.

Therefore, it is important for us to realise our initial intention whether we want to invest or gamble in the hope that the shitcoin purchased will get a pump.
I certainly did the first option because at the end of the day when we talk about investing in cryptocurrency then there is nothing more suitable apart from bitcoin and that is the only thing we should realise.
There is no need to give a lot of reasons to know this because there is already a lot of evidence that with bitcoin in our hands we are actually comfortable investing. I always say things like this because I have felt that bitcoin helps my finances better even though I may still not be categorised as a rich person because of bitcoin but when my needs are met from my investment in bitcoin then that is enough to make evidence and confidence in bitcoin even greater.

People do this, in part, because they want to use bitcoin as a store of value instead of having to trust and deposit money in 3rd party services like banks. Or many people believe that bitcoin's ability to bring profits will be better than other fields, so people will accumulate profits from traditional fields to invest in bitcoin. I am also someone who is accumulating money outside to invest in bitcoin because honestly, there is no one who doesn't want to get bigger profits. When comparing returns between bitcoin and other businesses or investments, bitcoin clearly has the upper hand. I think that's why someone who knows about bitcoin will focus on bitcoin more than any other field.

Altcoins are created largely in order to make money on them, almost everyone understands this, but there will always be those who understand these risks, but will still try to make money on it, in the short term. I don’t see anything wrong with this if you understand what you are doing, when you need to buy and when to sell so as not to lose money, but if you do it without understanding, then it will be a bad idea.

The entire market is moving behind Bitcoin, only from this it becomes clear who is in charge in this market. I remember a few years ago Ethereum was worth about $50, I admit at that time I thought that it would never get out, and I see no reason why it couldn’t fall so low again, despite all its improvements.

It is true that people have now learned to understand about Bitcoin. How profitable Bitcoin as a payment method is easily understood by those who pay through third parties. Bitcoin is attracting attention from all over the place like from the payment medium, the investment sector and the financial crisis. Although there are numerous investment mediums around us, people are extremely interested in Bitcoin. I myself am trying to collect bitcoins by following DCA. Because I know that all other currencies may give some profit temporarily but they certainly lose their value in long run because they have no basis. After a long period of holding if some one lost his assets by scam or holds any sheet he himself is liable for this. So i think There is certainly no alternative to investing in Bitcoin to build a reliable future.

Bitcoin is not a payment system. Its way too slow. Using Ligthning is not really Bitcoin.
People flock to Bitcoin due to its FIAT value. I guess greed is a great motivator.

Bitcoin is a payments system by its genesis. The original paper is called "Bitcoin: a peer to peer electronic cash system". Lightning is a layer upon the chain of Bitcoin. It is connected to Bitcoin and can't live without Bitcoin. It requires proper bitcoin transactions to open and close channels.

Many people believe investing in Bitcoin is simple and doesn't require knowledge of it because they believe it merely involves only buying and selling. Not only we do invest in Bitcoin for financial gain, but also in order to profit from it in the future. If you adopt this mindset, you would undoubtedly concur that knowledge is essential. Even those of us who have a solid understanding of Bitcoin's concept and how it works could still experience losses on our investments, so this is something to keep in mind.


Yes, Ethereum is second only to Bitcoin. Their blockchain has already undergone an enormous amount of progress, and this process is continues to be happening. But regardless of how well-established this coin is, it will undoubtedly follow when there is an abrupt decline in the price of Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is undoubtedly the king in the crypto space. I'd like to share my thoughts on investing.

Having been in the financial markets for approximately 10 years now, I've experienced my fair share of ups and downs. It's important to acknowledge that downturns can be quite painful, but they often bring much-needed clarity to one's life. I can confidently say that I've learned valuable lessons from these experiences.

As a result, I've adopted a more deliberate approach to investing. I no longer rush into investments solely to make substantial profits. Instead, I prefer to thoroughly investigate the company, asset, or whatever captures my interest.

Please note that I'm not offering financial advice; I'm simply sharing my perspective. I have a preference for cryptocurrencies with strong foundations. For instance, I consider whether they address critical issues like global warming or if their blockchain technology is environmentally friendly. Additionally, I assess whether these cryptocurrencies have the potential for broader adoption by other companies, examining their partnerships and contractual agreements.

Personally, I'm not particularly drawn to meme coins or NFTs at the moment. In my view, they lack intrinsic value, which is why I choose not to invest in them. I tend to focus my attention on cryptocurrencies like BTC, ETH, BNB, Chainlink, Solana, among others (I'm not promoting these cryptocurrencies, but rather explaining why they catch my eye).

Investing and trading are inherently probabilistic endeavors, and success hinges on patience and diligent research.

With what you said, WillyAp, I believe that you have not really read the Bitcoin white paper or that you have not also read a lot of content about Bitcoin. If you read the Bitcoin white paper, you will see where Satoshi describes Bitcoin as:


Bitcoin transactions require some network confirmation before they can be successfully approved, and those Bitcoin miners who validate the transactions on the Bitcoin network always validate the transaction with regards to fee. If you pay a higher fee, you will likely have your transaction approved so fast because,before you sign a Bitcoin transaction, there are already thousands of waiting transactions to be validated, but if you want yours to be very fast, you can increase your fee.

Everything has procedures, both on a decentralized network like Bitcoin and on a centralized system like Banks. Sometimes too, banks do experience delays in transactions, but for Bitcoin transactions, if you are using a good Bitcoin wallet, like an Electrum wallet, you can even spend your Bitcoin while it just has one network confirmation.

Some weeks ago, one of my customers made a payment to me using Bitcoin, and it did not take even five minutes before the bitcoin arrived in my wallet, although he increased the fee to $2.


That's your opinion, right? But everyone is not as you said, as you can see One Month of Accepting Bitcoin for Payment (http://).

Also, despite bitcoin being a digital currency, it's also an asset because it appreciates in value over time, so it's not a mistake if people decide to buy and hold bitcoin. It's not even greedy, like you said.

With all the experiences you have shared, of course it is in accordance with what I said before, where holding BTC for a long period of time promises greater profits. Because it is based on several interesting things regarding the future development of Bitcoin, be it mass adoption or lots of positive news that can make Bitcoin prices rise significantly.

Even the history of previous years is always the center of our attention so that we don't repeat the same mistake of selling BTC and lamenting regrets when BTC touched $69k. In the coming years, we don't know how developments will occur, but historically we are in an era of quite good development and this will continue from year to year.

Easier said than done.  Unless you have a lot of confidence in your various other investments (so I guess I am speaking towards diversification.. but not into shitcoins), it can be quite difficult to see your investment go up 50x or more, and sure I am not even claiming my own to currently be up more than 27x, since I like to use $1k as my average cost per BTC... .. and so you can imagine  that at some point there's gotta be some shaving off, and figuring out how to deal with the volatility without screwing things up.. ....

So let's say for example, in 2003-2013, you had an annual income of that increased from $10k per year and by 2013, it had gotten to $30k per year, and so through those years you had been investing around 10% of your income into various kinds of investments, and so by the time 10 years passed, your investment portfolio had gotten to about $40k.. which would be around $20k invested and the other $20k came from price appreciating, so you got around a doubling of the amount that you put into it over those 10 years. 

Let's say around 2013, you decided to invest into bitcoin, and since you had already built a decent traditional investment portfolio that was 130% your annual income, you thought that you were in a position to be more aggressive to build up your BTC portfolio, so you spent around 3-4 years building up your BTC portfolio, and so maybe by the end of 2016, you made several mistakes yet you still had been able to accumulate 20 BTC  for around $10k, so that would be $500 each, and also maybe it would have been around 20% of your total investment portfolio, with the assumption that maybe your investment portfolio might have still grown from $40k to $50k..

So maybe at that point you start to believe that you had been sufficiently aggressive to accumulate some BTC in light of your overall situation.. so at that point, you start to moderate your BTC investment, so that you are equally distributing your value between your traditional investment portfolio and BTC.. so out of your 10% investment allowance you are further dividing that into various categories so that you have traditional investments and BTC in an attempt to maintain something like a 10%-20% allocation to bitcoin  and 80% to 90% goes to your other traditional investment assets.

At that point in late 2016, we should be able to appreciate what ended up happening with bitcoin.. Bitcoin had already been starting to go up quite a bit between early 2016 to late 2016 from $300-ish to $800-ish, but if we are presuming that you made some mistakes with your BTC, so your average cost of BTC is still $500 per BTC, but by the time 2017 plays out, you still were seeing around 40x price appreciation on your bitcoin and even with the correction back down to $3k in 2018, you were still up 6-8x at the lowest points of the BTC price, but there still could have been times that you could have been scared out of your continuing to hold BTC.. and maybe even questioning if you should buy more or not or even questioning if you should sell some.. but still right now with our current $27k-ish prices, you would be around 54x in profits.

I am not even saying that any of it is easy because even if we assume that your regular investment portfolio had doubled again from $50k to $100k, your BTC allocation still would end up taking up a disproportionate amount of your total investment.. which would be around $540k or more if you had maybe continued to accumulate BTC, but if you had not chosen to accumulate more BTC you still would have had ended up flippening your other investments with bitcoin going from being around 1/5 the size of your overall portfolio, and then it becomes around 5x of your total holdings.. depending upon how you had chosen to manage all lf that..and surely if your regular job ends sup still being around $30k or maybe even $40k per year, you might start to consider that you are starting to get quite close to fuck you status, and maybe even you might have been tempted into selling some of your BTC when they were higher value because you had though that for sure at some point you had gotten passed entry level fuck you status, which really should be considered to be around 20x to 30x of your annual income (needs) so if you had been living on $40k, then $800k to $1.2 million would be getting you into entry-level fuck you status.. which largely just means that you should be able to quit your job and live off of the proceeds (or the passive income of your investment portfolio).

There are a lot of ways to screw up however, you are balancing the situation and also how you are valuing the various assets that you hold. and part of the reason that I prefer to value my BTC holdings based on bottom values (such as the 200-week moving average) rather than top values has to do with some of the concerns about either cashing out too early and not knowing where to put your value so it holds value or just not being able to account for the volatility of BTC going from $69k down to $15,479 and then coming back up to our current price of $27k-ish.


Yes.. and of course, our previous ATH is likely in a pass through range rather than any kind of an end-goal.. .. and even if you might have some end goal in mind of $100k or $200k or $500k or some other number, you still have to figure out how are you going to manage your BTC holdings in such a way that you are NOT losing too many BTC by trying to get out and then back in and then maybe even ending up not playing those kinds of strategies very well.

I also think that mass adoption of Bitcoin could become a reality if there weren't so many people opposing Bitcoin to continue to get better from year to year. Holding Bitcoin for the long term has become a pretty good option to achieve quite a bit of profit and this has also been done by many people after people have seen the development of Bitcoin's value from year to year so that there are no longer any doubts that come to many people at this time.

Paying attention to the history of Bitcoin's development can sometimes also give us encouragement to continue holding Bitcoin for the long term, because everyone can see how those who gain profits through Bitcoin after believing in Bitcoin and holding it for a long time. Likewise, those who regret not wanting to own Bitcoin when they had the opportunity to buy it before the price became higher in the market.

100% agreed, even I myself never knew the  concept of shit coins until I joined the forum, I once thought all coins are thesame not knowing that they have a supreme king. As they said, knowledge is power . Thanks to knowing it now and avoiding such errors is a sure thing. I remembered a time when someone advice me to buy a shit coins, I gave us much hope and we were like, something great will come from it, however, the token fell and yet to raise since all this year's.

You can't blame all that on altcoins or shitcoins. The market was pretty much unregulated before, so the hype was high, and it was easy to manipulate by people who had the power to do so. I believe the lack of regulation is the main problem, which is why the rate of scams was very alarming in the past. But now, look at the altcoins; we have many that have already become worthless because people have learned from their mistakes and are more educated now.

Bitcoin alone can't sustain the market. In order for the market to grow, there should be a demand that will be created, and without altcoins, the success in the long run might be slow.

Do you think Bitcoin will reach its all-time high without altcoins?

There are some investors who make these mistakes without knowing about any coin and there are some investors who get extra greedy and invest in such projects. There are different types of coins in the market but not all coins are investable. If you invest in some coins you will definitely lose that money. It is wiser to try to make relatively little money by investing in bitcoin than to lose all your money in the hope of extra profit. Most of the ALT coins in the market have no reliability, these coins can disappear from the market at any time, so it is never right to risk your money so much. We should invest in those coins that are not likely to get scammed.

Identifying a promising altcoin is not an easy matter, the majority of altcoin developers are only looking for profit, they do not have long-term development plans such as use cases and also listing on trusted exchanges, there are even some cases where the developers withdraw their token liquidity and change it to other crypto assets  then fled and left investors with false hope.  Bitcoin is a decentralized asset, there is no manipulation involved, only trusted Bitcoin.

That's bullshit.

It sound's like you are saying, "I am from the government and I am here to help."

Affinity scams are likely going to continue, and I am not totally opposed to ideas of regulatory clarity, but blanket assertions about a need for government intervention can become quite problematic, if you have noticed the way governmental regulations like to overdo things and then to frequently engage in various kinds of oppressive behaviors rather than really trying to help or to empower people.

I am not even anti-government, but I am anti-blanket statements.



Some of those are free market dynamics in which some people do end up learning when they lose money, but not everyone learns from losing money.


Now you are pumping the idea that shitcoins are needed.  Great.

King daddy does not need altcoins, but altcoins need king daddy.  How about we say it like that?  King daddy cannot get rid of altcoins.  Altcoins and a variety of attacks and affinity scams are going to continue to exist, so hopefully you are not getting too distracted into thinking that the mere fact that they are going to exist means that we need to speak nicely about them.  People do a lot of dumb things and people are scammed into shitty, inferior and sometimes completely worthless projects.  I doubt that we want regulations to completely save people from themselves, but surely frequently scammers are already engaging in fraudulent kinds of behaviors, and if they are not then there might be some value in just letting people learn for themselves if they are investing and/or buying inferior and/or worthless pump and dump crap.   

We definitely can't say that all altcoins are shitcoins. But almost all of us know that Bitcoin price or its potential bullish movement is mainly influenced by various factors including overall economic conditions, investor intentions and regulatory bodies etc. We often say that Bitcoin is the leader in the crypto space. It controls the entire market as a al in all. Altcoins depend on Bitcoin, but Bitcoin does not depend on any altcoin. Moreover, the idea of altcoins came after the establishment of Bitcoin. So we can naturally say that Bitcoin does not need to rely on altcoins.

There is no doubt that Bitcoin can return to all-time highs, but it is hard to say that altcoins will not succumb to scams in the long run. We know that bitcoin price performance is often influenced by complex issues where altcoins play role from the over all market situation. To be a market, there must be a variety of products, otherwise it cannot be called a market. There is a need for altcoins in that sense, but Bitcoin does not need or depend on altcoin.

It's not the only one, but it's probably the best one among all that can be held for long term.

True but depends on the level of growth from when one buys and till when they sell their assets back. Buying during the peak and panic selling during the bear market wouldn't give the same output though it can be long-term logically.

Financial markets such as the cryptocurrency market require an investor to do thorough research and analysis before making any investment. If you go all guns blazing in trying to create great wealth through newly launched coins and tokens, you will probably face the consequences.

That's not true. There are several other cryptocurrencies that can also be pretty profitable apart from Bitcoin, though the trust level differs between Bitcoin and them, they are not all completely useless.

When we talk about the government, there are good governments and bad governments, so you are lucky if you are living in a country where the government is not corrupt, as they will certainly put the interest of the people first since that's their main purpose for being in the position.

It doesn't sound like 'I am from the government, and I am here to help,' not completely at all, as the government is just here to create laws to regulate the market. Without regulation, the market would be in big chaos. I'd like to cite an example: when the market is in a bull run, usually FOMO happens, not only in Bitcoin but also in altcoins. The best example is in 2017, as I experienced it personally and benefited from it overall. So I know that there are also people who lost a lot of money during that time because they invested in a scam project.

So my question is, without the government regulating the market, where would these people go to recover what they lost, or at least put the scammers in jail if recovery is not possible anymore?


Yes, that's the reality. Not all would, because not all investigate the reasons why they lose in the first place. The lack of education would always result in misleading potential investors. Without regulators, they can still continue promoting their projects that offer too-good-to-be-true returns. And since these uneducated people are still vulnerable, they might fall into the trap again, leaving the market with a bad reputation, with the majority of investors probably just playing some kind of gambling games.



Of course, you are right that Bitcoin does not need altcoins, but what I would like to emphasize is that if we want to witness fast progress in the market, altcoins should be created as they can also create demand. It would result in a vice versa situation where both would benefit each other.

And for the record, I when I say altcoins, I am not referring to shitcoins, because even without shitcoins bull run would still happen, shitcoins are just riding the hype.

The question is, what demand do altcoins create that will help or have a positive impact on bitcoin? Other than being used for speculation, or frankly for gambling, I don't see any use cases from altcoins. Therefore, it cannot be said that Altcoins create demand that drives the market, they only push people who like to get rich quickly to rush into the market to gamble rather than invest.

I think bitcoin reached ATH due to the impact of halving, supply and demand in the market. Altcoins had no role in helping bitcoin reach its all-time high because the entire altcoin market was waiting for bitcoin to grow so they could increase in price.

Bitcoin is still in a state of upheaval right now due to price fluctuations. Well, it's interesting what you said and I think what you said is like a key zone that helps determine whether support or reject when users start their crypto journey because all markets basically consists of human behavior and All markets have memory because it returns to us ourselves deciding whether or not it is worth holding BTC.

that's the risk of investing in a new project. Many people recommend getting all the information from the team so that if something like this happens, investors can try to find out who is responsible for it. However, if you want a risk-free investment in crypto, the only options are bitcoin, and perhaps popular altcoins. For new projects, it's best to use money that doesn't change your life for the worse when you lose it.

If that's what you think, how can you explain, the top 10 altcoins in the market which some have even billions of dollars in trading volume.
https://coinmarketcap.com/

If you think they are just for speculation, I don't think they're different from Bitcoin. To see the bigger picture, look at the dominance; Bitcoin currently has 48.8% dominance in the overall market, and the rest is just controlled by altcoins. Imagine if those altcoins were taken out; panic would surely happen, and I don't think Bitcoin would stay at the current price.

Also, when a huge exchange is hacked, how come it affects the value of Bitcoin? So that only states that the market does not revolve around Bitcoin alone; legitimate altcoins are also linked to Bitcoin in terms of market sentiment.



It reached its ATH due to speculation, hype, and the like, because if it were organic, the price would not have dumped significantly after the bull run.
Just take the last bull run as an example: Bitcoin hit an ATH of $66k. Now, what is the current price?

If you consider Bitcoin and other altcoins individually, your perception of Bitcoin's position will change. I won't deny that altcoins don't have value because when a major altcoins admits to scam, the effect is temporarily reflected in bitcoin itself. This does not mean that altcoins can cause any losses to Bitcoin in the long run. Altcoins which I also consider a gambling coin exist today but may questionable in the future.

I can't make my fortune by holding a good altcoins because if they are suspicious then SEC or other agencies bring allegation or can be hacked, my dreams can be shattered. I don't want to let my dreams be influenced by others. Bitcoin is the only and fully decentralized one which I can trust.

As Bitcoin price has fallen, most of the altcoins have reached a risky position. You many know that how many altcoins have died in the market in 2022. How many altcoins have lost about 95 to 99.99 percent of their value? A survey of this will show you the reality. I have a question for you that I can assure you at some point Bitcoin will surpass its ATH but is that possible for altcoins?

I don't really agree with several of stadus's points, but I do think that there is a kind of balancing that needs to be considered and we are likely not going to be able to come to agreements regarding how much government and/or oversight and/or self-regulation might be valuable as a kind of struck balance.

Maybe another way of thinking about the matter is that I have my doubts that there would be much if any advancement in society if there were some kind of goal to stamp out all shitcoins, and so surely there are some kinds of behaviors that are more egregious than others, and sometimes some of the practices around bitcoin and shitcoins could facilitate various kinds of obfuscation of criminal and/or fraudulent behaviors..

I am not going to claim to know where the right balance is, and even though I am not likely to talk good about very many shitcoins, especially if they have their own token, they do sometimes provide some valuable testing grounds for technological and even incentive structure innovations that could overall being beneficial whether adopting some of that onto bitcoin or maybe serving as some kind of second, third, forth or whatever layer.. and so sometimes there could be ways to invest time, money and energies in some of those kinds of projects.. yet at the same time, from my own perspective, if there is some kind of project that is not bitcoin and it has created its own token, then there is going to be some presumption against them in terms of their being a good investment or that they are necessarily providing some kind of value... and at the same time some of them do provide some value..

Even that piece of shit ethereum that serves as the motherasshole out of which many shitcoins flow, there could be some aspects of ethereum in which some learning can take place.. so it is really difficult to make blanket statements, even if we might have certain presumptions. including that many of us will find that studying many of the variations of shit products does not tend to be a good use of time for people who have other areas of interest and ONLY so much time that they are able to spend trying to figure out some of their seemingly purposefully convoluted structures that frequently seem to be purposefully designed to scam when they make them so complicated when there are likely easier (and more straight-forward) ways to go about such designs and practices.


That is a dumb metric.  You should not be attempting to determine if something is valuable or not merely because it has a lot of marketcap.


Sounds like you don't understand bitcoin if you are making those kinds of arguments.

Many folks should be trying to figure out what bitcoin is first before getting caught up in the various shitcoin talking points.

So at least if you end up understanding bitcoin, then you might have better chances to understand some of the shitcoins, and perhaps if you figure out some aspects of bitcoin, maybe spending 100-300 hours studying it, you may well end up coming to realize that you don't need to be wasting so much time trying to argue how shitcoins have some kind of meaningful and/or substantive value.. beyond being just pump and dump nonsense or otherwise convoluted nonsense that is largely just affinity scaming the king.


Again.. meaningless metrics.  You are doubling down on meaningless metrics and distracting shitcoin talking points...and trying to sound (appear) smart while you are going through your meaningless analysis.


But so what?  Who cares?  A lot of things affect Bitcoin's price including some shitcoin dynamics, but why does that matter?  why does that make bitcoin like a shitcoin?

Again, likely you need to study bitcoin first before getting caught up on meaningless metrics/indicators like the cavemen watching shadows in the cave and proclaiming those shadows to have meaning when the better ways to get meaning would actually be going outside of the cave and seeing what is actually happening rather than relying on the shadows that you see (the allegory of the cave).


Even though none of us likely really know all of the ways in which BTC price is affected, but you can still consider that there are likely some aspects of bitcoin that are contributing to its longer term price dynamics that mostly revolve around ideas of 1) stock to flow, 2) 4-year fractal and 3) exponential s-curve adoption based on network effects^** and metcalfe principles.  So yeah, there are some other short term ups and downs that can take place but you likely are going to get a bit further in your analysis by looking at the three categories in terms of attempting to figure out some of the longer term BTC price dynamic...

** Note:  network effects is related to the seven pointed out by trace mayer. (https://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/the-seven-network-effects-of-bitcoin/)

 ;D, hahaha, even if altcoins are needed, I don't think that a King Daddy needs altcoins because altcoins are bunches of bullshit. If altcoins need King daddy, altcoins should be nicer for those who already invested in them. Maybe King Daddy will just look at it a bit (but not have an interest in investing in it).

You are apparently correct, altcoins are scam coins and the inventors of those coins are using these means to scam people. If King daddy is speaking nicely about these altcoins, it means that King daddy is supporting them. Nowadays, scammers are using these altcoins as another means to scam people, and it is also giving those coins more negative trust for big investors not to invest in them.

That's why, before investing in new projects, you must do good research about the project and after doing the research, you also get ideas from others who have joined before you so you will not make a mistake when you start investing in them, then you also invest with, small amount of capital so that even if the project didn't end well you will not end up losing big.
Bitcoin is a legit crypto currency. That is why it is still standing strong, but other projects (coins) have been grounded by themselves and people's money have lost.

You can increase your economy through investment in Bitcoin. Although there are lots of other options but bitcoin is unique among them. Also remember that you economy cannot be good within a month but it will requires your high priced time.

Those who have faith in bitcoin can get the profit easily but if you Loss your faith when market oscillates then it is not possible for you to have patience anymore as you will decide to stop thinking during bear market and will have faith that market will always red and will never turn into green.

A crypto expert will not be effected by red or green/ups and downs as before Initiation they learned all the necessary information and also trust on past to be reoccur in future also.

I mostly agree with you. .especially if we were posting in a bitcoin ONLY thread.. but this thread is arguing bitcoin versus shitcoins and saying that bitcoin is better, so that allows for discussion in both directions. and sure, I largely agree with the conclusion of OP, but most likely there are going to be a lot of ways that opinions vary, and my overall conclusion is fuck shitcoins, but it is not like any of us could wipe them off the face of the earth or the right solution would be to eliminate all persons involved in them.. unless we find crimes involved, and even then the punishment for crimes is not death.. and also, sometimes the egregious behaviors might not even be violations of laws, but there still could be ethical transgressions and there sometimes are also civil claims that arise towards causes of actions that some people might have against other people but they still may well not end up getting charged as crimes because there might not be enough evidence that they reach the criminal standards for prosecution.


The seeming assertions of your post are strange @TakeItEasy.

It is like you are telling us that shitcoiners have higher resolve than bitcoiners, which truly does not seem to be the case, even if there tend to be some differences in terms of how shitcoiners will frequently have marketing budgets, but sometimes even their market budgets cannot keep their mostly pump and dump crap afloat.

Yes, I agree with you @JJG, you have a clear point. Wiping it from the face of the Earth won't bring any change and, if no shitcoins are not in the market, it will be so boring because it is only Bitcoin that will stay, so it won't be interesting, just like how it is now that we are all talking about Bitcoin and altcoins at the same time, so if only Bitcoin is in the market things to discuss about won't be many, if not price?It will just like like everyone already knows how it is.
I accept the fact that the punishment is not about death, so shitcoins should still stay and occupy space, unless we find high crimes in shitcoinsbe.

Not completely useless, but completely riskier. It is completely difficult to know which altcoins will generate profit for you, and it is also completely difficult to know when the coin can get pumped and dumped. At least for a decade now, Bitcoin has lived, and it's still waxing stronger. It's been defined that Bitcoin has two seasons, which are the bear and bull markets, and during the bull market, investors make some profit on their coins that they have purchased during the bear season. Altcoins mostly get so influenced by the bull season of Bitcoin that some of the altcoins get pumped, and after they dump, there is likely a 0.1% possibility of the token rising again. In fact, you can even buy an altcoin, and the project can decide to do a token swap while you are sleeping ( ;D ;D ???), and by the time you wake up, the time frame they gave for the token swap is over, which will give you a total loss of funds.

Generalizing the altcoins market as shitcoins is wrong, though we might have different views, your presumption that there's only a 0.1% possibility of the token rising again, which is close to impossible, is baseless. Have you gone through checking the altcoins market? The first altcoin that enjoyed enormous success was Ethereum. Back then, BNB was just a token for Ethereum before they had their own network, and guess what's one of the biggest exchanges now? Isn't it Binance?

The point is, if it does not start as a Eth Token, Binance woudn't be successfu and the present time and you are probably benefiting on the existence of the exchange since most traders favorite is Binance.

Look at the history of BNB and see how profitable it is.


source : https://coincodex.com/ico/binance-coin/

No, I'm not interested in the word diversification. You seem to imagine that it will be very difficult for us to achieve large profits in the coming years. I will not attribute income to profits in the short term because I am more interested in doing it in the long term. Volatility is not a reference that will disturb us from always checking the depth of profits every week/month. I don't think we will know for sure how progress will occur in the next year or the next 10 years on the price of Bitcoin. But seeing as the history of Bitcoin always goes up and returns a positive enough Roi for holders in the long term so we are interested in doing it.

Diversification can always be linked to Shitcoin even if you have denied it. However, this word still doesn't really make us interested in the mention of diversification that you mentioned. Yes, maybe we started quite slowly but we will not be easily provoked by a lot of inaccurate words in our train of thought for the long term. One thing I admire is your level of determination in holding Bitcoin for so long and I want to do the same thing you have done.

I think that you took my points differently than I had intended because I was mostly attempting to describe the various challenges in investing into BTC and also holding for the long term... so "easier said than done" has to do with how difficult it can be to HODL or keep buying or to just have some solid strategies (that could even include some selling on the way up and buy on the way down), especially when profits can sometimes seem to become so great so quickly.


I am glad that you have conviction, so that does help to hold through the greatly volatile periods, and for sure, there are no guarantees that bitcoin's price will "always go up."


I have repeated my points of diversification many times, but yes.. shitcoiners use such ideas in order to try to sell their crap... so even if someone might start out ONLY invested in bitcoin and cash, so the only diversification is the level of cash that is held to offset the bitcoin, at a certain point, as our investment into bitcoin grows, and maybe it becomes several times our annual income, we are likely going to need to consider ways to protect ourselves from the extremes of BTC's likely ongoing volatility including realizing that bitcoin's UPpity trajectory is not guaranteed.

how much should we be investing into other asset classes such as property, stocks, bonds, commodities and/or cash/cash equivalents is surely a matter of personal discretion.. but it seems that there is going to be some need to have some assurance that, even if bitcoin does end up going to zero, there is some ownership of other assets.. and/or income sources.. and how much can we keep in cash that we won't end up using to buy bitcoin as its price goes down and we are not sure when such downward fall is going to stop and we could end up running out of cash at some point during some of the bitcoin downity price events.. that surely happen from time to time and maybe more frequently than many of the BTC hodlers would prefer.


Just because shitcoiners use it does not mean that we should completely reject the idea.  Many people sleep much better when they have some other assets besides having everything in bitcoin.. your choice of assets remains your choice.


In late 2013, when I got into bitcoin, I already had a fairly diversified investment portfolio that included several asset classes and even a kind of fund that provided passive income (in the event that I wanted to draw from it or let it fold into itself and/or a certain amount of flexibility involving how much I could draw from it)... so as I was investing into bitcoin, after about a year, I figured out that my allocation would be in the 10% arena as compared with my other quasi-liquid investment portfolio, so even though by the mid-to-end of 2015, I had ended up overallocating into bitcoin in the neighborhood of 13.5%-ish, there were several times, that I had gotten tempted to reallocate some of my traditional investments into bitcoin, and in the end, I refrained from doing it, and I really think that my refraining from putting even more value into bitcoin allowed me a certain level of sanity and also an ability to feel that I could mostly let my BTC portfolio ride when it went from 13.5% to 80%-ish in 2017 and then corrected back down to 45%-ish in 2018 and then went back up to nearly 90% in 2021 and then maybe came back down to 60%-ish in the lows of 2022 and then maybe now it is around 70% to 75%... so those are high percentages that I mostly just allowed to ride through BTC volatility periods mostly because I continued to have the diversification that includes other passive income sources that can be adjusted up or down depending on cashflow needs.

Yeah. my current shitcoin allocation is less than 0.5%.. but still even mostly sitting on those shitcoins, there were some periods in which they exceeded 1%. maybe even including when Bcash became available for bitcoiners, even though I mostly sold mine within a few months .. but still there have been some shitcoins that I have kept in my portfolio.. and I don't really care too much what they do.. and maybe they are there as a kind of alternative way to transact if there were a need make such transactions outside of the dollar or outside of bitcoin. 

I like to bash a lot on shitcoins, but I am not even going to blame anyone who invests and screws around with shitcoins who keeps their allocation to some relatively low amount that might even end up getting up to 10% of the size of their bitcoin holdings.. but if they go beyond that, I likely will be more questioning their judgement.. and sure there are likely some honest people who are spending their time on shitcoins, and so surely there are likely some of those folks who are able to justify their approach to time, energies and value invested into shitcoins versus bitcoin, and so I suppose there is a kind of resolution to just accept their choices, even if they are choices that I would not make... and so surely people are free to make those kinds of choices for themselves...and hopefully they are not damaging the world or misleading too many people with their investment allocation choices.

Many other cryptocurrencies are credible. It does seem that the majority of altcoins to have lasted and maintained trade volume are ones with unique technical innovations or advantages.

For example:
Bitcoin has first-mover advantage.
NameCoin is generally considered the first altcoin but its technical benefits have been superseded by smart-contract-based networks.
LiteCoin has the first mover advantage of a coin with low fees and fast transactions (relative to BTC). It also gained prominence by being referred to as "digital-silver"
And so on..

You speak nonsense gobbledy-gook.

If we are able to understand bitcoin as a paradigm-shifting invention of a kind of protocol, then anything that expects to supercede it needs to be something like 10x better otherwise, yes, the first mover advantage becomes a real thing and the copycats, whether litecoin or otherwise did not invent anything really new.. and if it might even be better than bitcoin it is not 10x better and it is not better in any kind of way that whatever their supposed contribution.. to the extent that their tokens might retain some value, could merely end up become competed away by bitcoin or become a second or third layer upon bitcoin...

Remember when that shitcoin ethereum said that bitcoin was going to become a second layer upon it.. what a bunch of nonsense.. you cannot retain decentralization or security unless the decentralized and the secure is the most base of the layers.. which is what bitcoin is.. bitcoin is the most decentralized and the most secure, so in that sense other projects could be built upon it rather than the other way around otherwise the decentralization and security ends up getting lost.. which is a lot of how bitcoin gets its value in the first place through the proof of work systems, incentives around that and the difficulty adjustments and halvenings factored therein...   

Many, you say? I can't even get my fingers around a few to mention. Talking about credibility in most of those altcoins that you are talking about, do you also forget that there were some altcoins that others thought were very credible, but most of those altcoins are no longer existing today? All those altcoins—are they credible in the sense that they don't have any seasons? They are still led by Bitcoin, which we all know has the seasons of bull and bear, which the altcoins try to use Bitcoin seasons as an advantage. Either to disappear from existence with the excuse that the market is bearish or maybe they can pump their tokens to entice more investors.

Tera Luna should have been exiting until today, but what happened? While I believe that some people might have pictured it as a credible currency while it was still active,

Well, I can't say much, but what you must know is that, just as JayJuanGee has said, Bitcoin is much more decentralized and secure than other crypto currencies. If the government wants to form an alliance with Bitcoin, who would they meet? I think the answer is no one. But what if they need to form alliances with other cryptocurrencies? I think they can just easily access the CEO of those projects.

So, can you allow me to ask you something, where did the top 10 altcoins of 2013 go, and where did the topcoins of 2017 go? Such as XLM, LISK, EOS, BCH...and thousands of shitcoins that many people call potential and bring us new technology, where have they gone? I believe that the projects you call top altcoins will suffer the same fate as the projects I mentioned. They are just created to hype and scam people and then disappear without any real utility or application.

Bitcoin is also affected if some shitcoin disappears or an exchange goes bankrupt because not everyone is invested in bitcoin for the long term or for its potential. There are many speculators and gamblers that exist in the market and those people will often be the ones to dump their bitcoins whenever negative news spreads in the market. You cannot expect that all bitcoin investors are long-term investors, there will be one and the other.


I agree that bitcoin reaching ATH is not completely determined by supply and demand, but have you noticed that every bull season that passes, the new ATH is always higher than the old ATH? Isn't that enough to prove that the demand for bitcoin is growing higher every day?

I understand what you have explained, moreover, you explain it in stages which is very easy for us to understand. Yes, sudden profits are indeed a temptation for us to take them, but that is a trial that we must pass if our planning is to hold out in the long term. But I admit that there are many strategies that make us confident to hold on for the long term, one of which is profits that are multiples of the profits that are coming now. Of course that motivation is what makes us optimistic to continue to focus on accumulating Bitcoin at every stage. Our motivation grew to hold Bitcoin for a long period because of several facts that we saw. For example, you, you bought BTC in 2013 and held your BTC holdings for a long time, of course if you look at the profit ROI, of course you have made profits that you didn't expect before.

Therefore we want to follow your lead in continuing to hold Bitcoin for the long term. Moreover, the halving will occur next year, Bitcoin will automatically increase in price if you look at the history of the halving 4 years ago. There is no more effective strategy than DCA which we have implemented. Maybe one day we will start with larger capital if we get money from bonuses where we work.

Well yeah.. you can just keep plugging away, so each person is going to have differing goals.. and so maybe since you have been in bitcoin longer, you might have had been able to accumulate more bitcoin than some others who are brand new to bitcoin, and some guys might consider that they would like to get to 2 BTC in the next 10 years.. and so along the way they might have several targets, such as first reaching 1 million satoshis.. then reaching 21 million, then reaching 50 million.. and then 1 BTC.. and then 1.5 BTC and etc, etc. etc...

so like you mentioned, there could be times in your life where you end up getting some extra cash come your way.. such as $2k that you did not expect, and maybe you decide you are going to use $1,200 to buy bitcoin and then you have some other personal plans for the other $800.. but your level of aggressiveness and consistency can pay off, and if you clearly consider yourself in an accumulation phase, then you should not be wanting to engage in behaviors that might be screwing up your plan.. but you also don't want to act so aggressively that you have not adequately planned various expenses in your life.

Another thing with bitcoin price dynamics, the longer that you are in bitcoin, and if you are able to exercise prudent and reasonable practices, then you can surely engage in practices of buying on the dip or even shaving off a little bit of bitcoin at various points in which the BTC price rips UPwardly a lot.. and sure the BTC price might not correct back down, but if you figure out how to sell small amounts of BTC, then you should not necessarily be concerned if you ended up being correct or not about anticipating a correction.. and surely it is not easy to get ahead of the BTC price and that is frequently why some guys will refuse to sell any BTC at all while they are in their accumulation phase until they get to a certain level of profits and also a certain level of accumulation... so sometimes any sales of BTC will end up falling into a category of spend and replace within a fairly short period of time.

I want to stay in the circle of investing in Bitcoin and to be honest I haven't used Bitcoin since (eg 2013). I started in 2016 and from 2017 until now, even at that time there was no strong initiative for me to withhold in the long term because I still had minimal knowledge about Bitcoin. (meaning I only bought Bitcoin and sold again when I made a profit, but the results were zero big because the money was used up in vain because of other things. But after I followed a lot of developments in the Bitcoin discussion, I kind of want to holding it for a long time and buying gradually using the DCA method. Various targets might be included in my investment planning, such as 1 BTC a year if  it is achieved or 0.5 BTC per year. Planning like that is good enough to implement because with this target we can be confident and full of enthusiasm to be able to achieve it earlier with the aggressive level that we can do.
Of course, every time you work, you will definitely get additional money given by company management if a company gets bigger profits every year, so we as employees might get a bonus which we can maximize to buy BTC.

The opportunity to buy wisely, of course, when prices fall. Yes, sometimes the moment is missed for us because we don't have the funds available to buy at a sudden drop in price. At the same time we only make purchases according to the planning in the Strategy stage that we do with DCA. In fact, of course it makes sense if we make a trade that buys when the price goes down and takes profit when the price goes up, but this pattern is only to be played for the short term, not the long term. Like what you have done where you have held BTC from 2013 until now.

I guess you just went online to make some research and you believe what google or what ever search engine you used to make decision on choice of coins and how you believe it works.

When you you talk about something being credible what do you really mean by that, because most of the altcoins out their lack credibility, they are not trust worthy enough what they are always into or looking for is to make people have little faith in them and invest their money with their project and at the end of the day they give them nothing and they go away with the money.

No doubt their might be some altcoin which still appears to be a little good and checking them out but they are not in any way to be compared with bitcoin as bitcoin don’t even have a thing to compete with any altcoin as it has already proven it’s self in the past, bitcoin remain the best and will still be the best choice for many.

I mentioned this dynamic in another one of my recent posts in which persons are tending to see bitcoin as a kind of trade in which they can short-term increase their dollars/fiat.. so it may not even matter very much what you ended up spending your dollars/fiat upon because you end up losing out on opportunties in which BTC prices stairstep upwardly, and then, even if they correct back down, they do not correct back down in such a way that you well ever be able to buy back as many BTC as you had sold at various points when the BTC price was going up.  So yeah, it does make it worse if you had ended up spending that money on consumption goods rather than just hanging onto it or investing it (temporarily) into something else that you can convert back into cash.

So, hopefully you are able to figure out some kind of way to learn a lesson from that situation, and to not get so caught up upon the short-term dollar value of your bitcoin holdings whether they are in profits or if your bitcoin holdings are in the red.  If you end up learning a lesson that you figure out ways to mostly stack your sats and ongoingly pursue that by mostly engaging in various ways to buy BTC and keep building your quantity, then even if the dollar value of your BTC holdings goes up and down, you are likely going to end up being much better off in the long term.. including if you are able to figure out buying extra on dips.. and sometimes it can be real difficult to put aside money to buy extra on dips, then in that sense, the even better strategy would be to engage in ongoing purchasing of BTC.. no matter the price.. while maybe even establishing some BTC stacking goals.. and of course, your BTC stacking goals are going to need to be individually tailored.


Maybe it is not really good to talk about specific quantities in the sense of your personal goals, yet of course, if you are able to figure out ways to try to stack a certain quantity of BTC.. and we could use 1 BTC as a kind of hypothetical, so at current prices ($26,800-ish) that would be a bit more than $500 per week  (52 weeks in a year).. so that is a pretty high dollar amount to be intending to consistently put aside for aspirational purposes.. because if the BTC price doubles (which would be around $54k - which surely is no unrealistic) then your stacking goal doubles in terms of its dollar values, and surely you have to have a pretty great cushion of extra dollar value if you might be thinking that your aspirations are so high.. and you might want to think of these matters more realistically.

Yeah, sure I just spent time suggesting that each of us should have goals to stack as many BTC as we can and maybe even having target quantities of BTC that we want to try to reach within certain timelines, but if our income (and even expenses) is largely in terms of dollars (or other fiat), then we likely need to attempt to tailor the amount that we want to put into bitcoin in terms of how much is going to be our discretionary income which is more likely in terms of dollars/fiat rather than bitcoin.. but we can also keep in the back of our mind certain kinds of threshold quantities of BTC that we think that we might need but we are not really going to be able to exactly know some of the specifics in terms of BTC.. except that if we keep buying we can figure that our BTC quantity is going to keep growing and we can likely make a variety of projections regarding how many BTC that we might need for certain timelines.

I had already outlined my own ideas of how many BTC it takes to get to a presumptive fuck you status of $2 million (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5376945.msg58719591#msg58719591).. and of course, these numbers could be tailored and even the projections could use differing ways of estimating the value and/or prices of BTC.


Yes. one of the great things about bonus as a category to consider is that we might be able to presume that we already have our regular expenses covered, so there could be some possibility that the bonus is not going to be needed for anything else... Yet, for sure people are going to vary regarding the extent to which they might count on their bonuses in order to pay for some of their expenses and/or sometimes they might engage in a bit of sloppy accounting for their own finances so they end up needing their bonuses in order to bail them out of the bad situations in which they had placed themselves.
 

Yes.  It probably takes a little bit of practice to figure out how much to ongoingly continue to buy, while at the same time potentially holding a little bit in reserve and even allowing that reserve fund to grow so that if there is a dip, then some money would be available, while at the same time, there are ways to already roughly structure a certain quantity of reserve funds to spread it out at various places..

for example, let's say that you are able to buy $200 per week, but you decide to ONLY buy $100 per week and to put the other $100 into your reserve fund.  You have to be comfortable that the price might be going up rather than down and the building of your reserve fund is not going to cause you to have regrets if the price goes up and you had not used your reserve fund to buy BTC... so maybe after some time your reserve fund has grown to $1k or $2k, so then maybe you place some BTC orders at various strategic places that may or may not end up getting filled.. so you have buy orders every $1k starting at $25,200-ish.. and so if you ONLY have $1k in your reserve fund, then maybe you are ONLY able to buy $250 each $1k that the price drops down to $21,200.. so it is up to you how much to place in each buy order, how large are your buy increments and how far you want your buy orders to go before you run out of money to buy on the dips... dips that may or may not end up happening.
 

You do not necessarily need to take profits when the BTC price goes up, and if you do decide to take profits when the BTC price goes up, you can set your level of "profit taking" to be such a small percentage of your overall BTC holdings that you are not really taking very many profits and you will not get worried if the BTC price keeps going up.  One of the problems with taking profits when the BTC price goes up is that you might start to feel that you are spinning your wheels and even engaging in fruitless transactions, especially if you still might be in your early BTC accumulation stages.

So maybe even in your case when you are saying that you already had a problem with selling too much of your BTC investment and that you have had those kinds of issues in the past, it may well be better to just stop completely with the selling and just focus on how much you can buy and various points to buy... and of course, you have to make those kinds of choices for yourself, yet it seems to me that people get distracted from their main accumulation goals when they try to mix selling in there as a supplemental means to attempt to acquire more BTC, when they probably would be way better off just ongoingly buying rather than messing around with selling any BTC for the purpose of acquiring more BTC.

On the other hand, don't get me wrong.. once you reached a quantity of BTC that you think is enough into the future.  Let's say that you believe that you need 5 BTC by 2032 - which is somewhat consistent with my chart, and so maybe you end up reaching somewhere around 9 BTC in 2026.. so in that sense you have already overly accumulated, and you have a bit of a luxury to have an extra 4 BTC.. so in that sense you might be able to create systems in which you can sell some of your extra BTC when the price goes up and then buy them back when (or if) the BTC price goes down, but you can also structure your situation in such a way that you make sure that you always have at least 5 BTC, and maybe even you want to make sure that you always have a cushion in their so whatever you are doing and planning to do would make sure that you don't go below 7 BTC... so if you have 2 extra BTC to play with, so you might structure your sells to sell 0.05 BTC every time the BTC price goes up $5k or $10k or whatever, it will depend upon where we are at with the BTC at the time that you might start to employ such a strategy (after you come to such a determination that you have more than enough BTC in terms of your own goals and how you envision how you would like to plan your future involving BTC), so with such a projection, you could already see how much BTC you would be selling at various points in time as the BTC price is going up.

For a long-term goal, you simply buy and hold regardless of any market fluctuations, and if you want to buy on dips and sell on pamps, then this will be trading. If you want, you can try how well you can do it, but for this you must have a separate budget, which you should not mix with your main long-term investment.

If you have such a desire, you can simply check for yourself the statement that hold always wins over trading. I think that's how it works for most people.

Trusting search engines to make investing judgments, especially for complex and changing cryptocurrencies, is infuriating. Blindly trusting the first person you encounter on the street for life advice isn't always wise, right? Asking about credibility? Many believe credibility comes from transparency, history, and consistency. The truth is, many cryptocurrencies fail. They promise big things only to break them and take your money.

Does Bitcoin's king make all altcoins useless? Bitcoin has consistently stood out and demonstrated its worth. While Bitcoin is the favorite among fans, shouldn't we be open to altcoins? I support you, though. Bitcoin is the best, and I wouldn't change it.