Bitcoin Forum

The Banks are continuously improving their service with offering that are more user-friendly and easy to use. One example of this are "Contactless Card Payments" where you tap your card for small purchases.

The scammers have figured out how to use that service to their advantage... by simply tapping it continuously (if it is not limited) and if it requires a pin... by watching you and following you after you have made a purchase. (They then take your card by force and physically tap it until your account are empty)

They also use card skimming devices to "clone" your card and use pin hole cameras to capture your pin while you are typing it. They can even bump into you with a device that will initiate a small purchase from your card that can "tap"  ::)

Your credit card are constantly under attack, when you use it online and your Banking Apps are making you a target, because they only need access to you to force you to enter your pin... then they can change daily limits and transfer as much money as they like. (Local criminal syndicates work with Bank employees to identify potential targets.)

So, I was thinking... How can Bitcoin be better? Can we find better solutions for these attacks and will these solutions still give us ease of use? (No complexity but still user-friendly)

Share your experience with these Banking problems and give possible solutions for this, because we will draw a lot of people to Bitcoin, if we find innovative solutions to problems like this.  ;)

I am not a big fan of banks, only use them when I have to withdraw money in local currency. I don't use debit or credit cards (for loan purposes) but to use ATM only. Not a fan of banking products which are nothing but a show-off. The point is, bitcoin is far better than banks in a hell lot of ways for example:
Decentralization
Full transparency
Faster transaction
Lesser taxes and fee
Besides that, there are more banking scams but fewer scams in BTC technology.

But, after reading your post hackers, thieves, and scammers have found many new ways to scam people (users of banks) like they can force you, they use pin hole camera, etc. Everything thing that you have aforementioned can be done for BTC users too.

They can force a person and can beat him for recovery phase, (once they get to know you are a BTC user) they can use hacking techniques (don't have to use pin hole camera to eavesdrop) they can simply eavesdrop on you by compromising your devices. But good precautions can make your BTC life more secure.

Everything you said are right, bitcoin wallet too can be hacked, it is individual that needs to be very careful. Bitcoin is also decentralized and censorship resistant, but the faster transaction and lesser fee is only when you comparing fiat cross border payment with bitcoin transaction, if a fiat transaction is within a country and done locally, the fee is cheap and the transaction are fast. But fiat transactions can have error which bitcoin transaction can not have.

Bitcoin is already better because there are no cards and the chances of being scammed similarly to some bank scams have been reduced already to the least. If you will loose bitcoins to scam or to thieves, it is because of personal reasons like ignoring security tips like keeping your key safe, not clicking links you do not understand, or not acting fast enough to follow some security advice. If security tips and advice can really be followed, you will never be a victim of any form of scam.

I won't call those people scammers because they are somehow stealing your cards which fall into the category of thieves or bandits. And such things can happen with Bitcoin users as well. If some of those negative people learn about someone who has enough holdings in Bitcoin then they can kidnap that person and or someone closed to him/her in order to get the private keys of the wallets where he/she has stored the Bitcoin. It would be difficult task as compare to card snatching but it can also be done by those negative ones.


I believe Bitcoin is still safe than those credit and debit cards that the banks issue for the users. The best thing that makes Bitcoin safe is the privacy of the user who bought Bitcoin. The Bitcoin is 100% decentralized and can be purchased by anyone without any restriction. The Bitcoin holder can transfer his/her Bitcoin from one wallet to another without any issues.

The Bitcoin users can purchase Bitcoin using decentralized exchanges and those purchases will be very safe and none of the local thieves will know about such transactions. Although, Bitcoin can also be hacked but if someone does everything properly then there is very minimum chance of those hacks to take place. The banks are vulnerable to attacks from hackers while Bitcoin is safe from hackers as a network because most of the nodes are trusted and the hackers can't do anything directly to the Bitcoin blockchain.

Bitcoin is already fixing a lot of that by design. You see the reason why most of these scam methods like using card skimming devices, cloning your card, stealing your pin, etc. happen is because there is a middle man between the user (aka the owner of the funds) and the holder of the funds (ie. the bank). So the scammer comes in between as another middle man and takes the secret information during the communication between the user and the bank.

In bitcoin the owner of the funds and the holder of the funds (and keys) are the same. There is no middle man involved so nobody can use any of these methods to steal your secrets.

Too many people are careless, they would also be careless with bitcoin.

I have had many banking problem and it is better not to remember them. I have missed a business opportunity because the money I transferred to a client was not received. My pain was that I could do nothing about the transaction. The bank couldn't explain the cause of the problem and there was no means to track the funds because some intermediaries were involved. They just told me to wait for seven working days without explaining what the problem was. But bitcoin is different. If your transaction is stuck in the mempool it will be obvious and you have options to make your transactions to be confirmed. I would have opted to increase the transaction fee than to lose that lucrative business opportunity.

A relative's ATM was stuck in the bank's automated teller machine. Since that day was a public holiday,  he couldn't access the bank that same day. After a few hours he began to receive debit alerts,  his funds were transferred out of his account and all the funds he had in his account were withdrawn. From investigation, it was discovered that a bank official was the criminal. The banker accessed the ATM took the card and transferred the funds to an online bank. This loss was caused by an intermediary and a card. With bitcoin, I don't need any card or middleman to do my transactions. With just my wallet, I can send and receive funds. One doesn't need to expose himself to scammers that are around the banking system. He asked the bank for the details of their investigation but he was asked to get clearance from the police and affidavit from the court. But with bitcoin, you can see the movement of your coins without any bureaucratic process.

Thanks for narrowing down the transaction and fee part, because making payment locally are cheaper while the BTC payments are not. That's why many merchants and vendors don't accept or enthusiasts to use BTC as a payment method at the local level. Because the transaction fees are huge, but still, the lightning network takes care of this part.

Sometimes, making transaction using a banking app, result in an error, like invalid errors, which are really troublesome. And let me point out another good benefit of the BTC payment system over the banking app. Which is in our country mobile phones are so expensive nowadays, because the tax is so high, the tax is 2x the actual price of the mobile, but tax will be only implied when we have to register it with PTA. After registration, we will be able to use sims on it.

But what most people do, is they simply patch their phones and patch phones don't run baking apps and after 1 or 2 months the phone also lost its patch when a new update came in the smartphone. The thing is, we don't have to see this issue with BTC because in banks there we have to input OTP while in BTC we don't have to. A plus point for patch phone users.

That's not how transactions happen.
Each generation has a unique key, tapping on it multiple times won't make a double or triple purchase. The "scammer" would have to issue a new payment every time to charge you and that is not done in a second, there is a built-in delay in every of those PoS.

Second, you won't get a contactless card to trigger a confirmation by following a guy, it barely works 2 cm directly from the sensor, and I've used this thing a thousand times to realize it makes no sense even bumping into somebody with it, one layer of clothes and a wallet are enough.
Besides, this whole thing just highlights how banks are better than Bitcoin here, you have chargebacks, and you can get your money instantly back, with Bitcoin good luck, who are you going to call?


As I said above, this is bs! You've never seen or used a contactless card right?
And what is the scammer going to do, wait 30 days hoping you're not going to ask your bank about this, and then go to his own bank and withdraw the money they have scammed from you. Really? What's next drug dealers coming to the police to demand damages for getting paid with fake notes for fentanyl?


Ok, so this is a bank-hating topic, not a topic about facts, got it!
Let's lie to ourselves cause that will make us feel better!

Honestly, the only difference is these attacks are not working in Bitcoin because Bitcoin and Credit Card are very different systems. Banks or credit cards are accessible in almost any country compared to Bitcoin. Let's assume that scammers worldwide know how this system operates and how to bypass it. The only thing that matters is the user, who would protect their cards. Like in Bitcoin, the credit cards are their seed phrase, and we know that if someone knows your seed phrase, they can access your funds. So, let's protect our cards or seed phrases.

What is certain is that everything that is created must have a level of weakness and if the system is controlled by someone else it will be much more complicated. For example, like banking and we don't have access to their system, so the possibility of hacking really depends on the security system they have created. I am not one of the users who trusts banks too much, but I see that their system is still quite weak and once in my country their system stopped working because it was attacked by hackers, so there was extraordinary panic at that time.

Bitcoins can be secured with recommended wallets and this advantage is what makes it better, although there are several cases involving users' own mistakes in storing bitcoins, so they lose the bitcoin assets they own. In essence, the role of each of us is very important to safeguard these assets and if we care about the level of security then use a safer wallet according to the best recommendations available.

I do not believe there is any possible solution to such a scam as it involve threat to the life of the owner of the card. What do you do at gun point, so let's just be careful and pray not to fall to hand of the wicked ones. Even if you have Cryptocurrency with the highest level of security, can you refuse a theif request to provide the neccessary details for transfer of coins from your wallet at gun point?.

I strongly believe , security measure is very important. The competition between the centralized and Decentralized system is pushing us to  more innovation that will bring a better life to humanity. It is the function of every individual to decide which to use base on their understanding of the system.

As bitcoins continue getting more awareness, it is important to focus on users using them for business transaction and not just an investment. 90% of bitcoin users are holders, we hope for a time when the level of usage will be calculated base on real life purchase and payment. It is at this point , the banking system will begin to loose it's power.

I think that the OS is what protects the user in the case that someone steals their phone. There is a timeout setting, wherein the user has to authenticate the transaction. I'm a Google Pay user, and I've noticed that if I leave my phone open for a couple of minutes, I cannot make a payment. I'll have to turn off and on.

Do we have data on thefts with stolen smartphones? I have never heard of such case once, and I'm pretty sure you can call your bank and reverse it before it's too late. Nevertheless, this means the merchant bears the financial burden once again.

Banks go better and cheaper than in the past. What you wrote here seem to be over-inflated stories from people who don't really use cards.

And fyi, nowadays if one is so scared that people will steal from their NFC card have the option to block/freeze the card until seconds before the next purchase or use Google Pay or similar and keep their NFC off until the moment of paying.

Bank problems are different:
* they can decide for you if they allow you use your money for various things (gambling and crypto are most known examples)
* banks can go bankrupt, which in non-EU countries would not be pretty
* banks are slow, especially on international transfers
* various banking operations cannot be done in non-working hours (and obviously also not in the week-ends)
* if you want to keep your money in a bank you may have to pay fees
* they work only with the inflation-eroded fiat
* they are centralized
* they are hungry for your KYC data, transactions data and whatever else they can find out about you


The list may be longer too. As you can see, the list is not small, so we can better discuss on the facts, not on various... tales.

Yeah.

These criminals are taking advantage of every financial instrument under the sun. They're gonna continue doing that until the end of time.

Yes, of course! The "improved" banking services are really just a hiding place for security holes. Although they say it's user-friendly, I think it's more scammer-friendly. Contactless card payments? More like an infinite number of ways for thieves to tap, tap, tap away your money without any problems. These scumbags who skim, copy, and tap are outrageously brazen. While typing your PIN, you are unaware of the eyes watching every move and the sly pinhole cameras.

And you are totally right. There are a lot of criminals on the internet. The “convenient” banking apps, are they truly convenient or just conveniently making you the perfect, exposed target? All of this is a big, bad movement of lying and stealing.


Could bitcoin be the one who saves us forever? But then again, how much can we trust Bitcoin? Can it hold up against these bad guys? Can it promise us simple, easy transfers while also making the walls stronger against these leeches? Only we can save ourselves. ::) ::)

When new technologies came theft developed a crack for it as you mentioned in the case of the contactless card system and in what way the thief uses it. The situation is in every robbery case the third party is always involved, how someone says that the theft took the money of a person who came out from the bank is an example of how the theft knows that this person has withdrawn a lot of money or in case of accounts hacking in the bank who gave them the knowledge of this, This clearly shows that the third party is in contact with the thefts, and all this happens in the banking system. In the case of Bitcoin, it is more secure than a bank as it a decentralized its transaction is clear and the thief can't take it from you until you give them your keys. But above a user mentioned that even the wallet is not secured and can be hacked so my question is at least what to do to save our funds, the banks are not secure, wallets are not secure then what else that we have to trust it?

Don't you think the more easier a medium offers an easy mode of payment, likewise the more easier/prone it is to thefts, hacking and scam? Because taking a look from how this "tap-to-pay" (i.e contactless card) method works, I doubt if such could ever exist with the use of Bitcoin for making payment. Hence, the less we try to make Bitcoin payment easier, the lesser we record scam/theft and robbery of bitcoiners. So for me, I will say that i'm very much okay with the decentralized current security feature Bitcoin, and as such less we try to implement all the feature we see/notice from our traditional banking system, the better for us and the entire Bitcoin community.

Just a suggestion lad, if you are going to reply try to make it longer because the system may deem you as spam if you have one-liner replies. I'm just looking out for fellow forum members.

Anyway, you're right. Whether it is through banks or Bitcoin there will always be a way for people to just lose money or get scammed. Hence, it is up to us to secure our money and ensure that we are not being careless about it. We have to be smart with our transactions and how we keep it. As much as there are issues regarding the bank that we cannot fully control, there are also instances that this might happen to our digital wallets.

Bitcoin in not better than banks payment, because with bank payment - credit/debit card you can pay for everything, with Bitcoin you can not. Plus bank payment with credit/debit card is instant. With Bitcoin - all confirmations can go in 30 minutes, but can go also in 3 days, who knows.

So far i didnt really be able to experience with those Banking problems which that you had mentioned after all the years i've been owning a credit or debit card on which i do also being active with online purchases or even

making use of contactless payments which is usually on fastfood chains or even having my grocery considering that department stores or grocery stores in malls does really accept with those kind of payment system
on which it cant really be denied that it do really bring out that kind of convenience on which a certain person could really be able to do so and this is something that we do much prefer on doing.
After all the years i've been doing this then luckily im not really be able to experience those kind of loss of funds or being that forced out inputting some passcodes or whatsoever.

 About skimming and other attacks, then it wont really be that something possible if you do really just make use of your common sense on how to make yourself that safe and really be able to
avoid with those kind of potential attacks around you. You cant really be exploit out if you wont really be putting up some holes for them to begin with.
How Bitcoin would be able to solve these problems? p2p transactions yes, but coin security then it would really be just the same. You would be needing to keep those keys out from other
peoples awareness.

Banks are centralized and this makes it easy to be scammers to get whatever information that they want in other for them to scam you. Bitcoin is decentralized and only you have the control over your coin. The safety of your coins is your own responsibility, if you didn't not follow the proper safety rule on how to safeguard your wallet, you might be scammed. As for banks, so many people will have access to your account, either through your credit card or even a third party from the bank can sell out your information to scammers. Bitcoin is far better than banks when it comes to safety of your funds, and in the aspect of purchase of goods and payment of services across boarder. As long as it is money there must be people out there that are looking for various means to steal money from people either bitcoin or fiat.

I'm not sure what you list out here as "bank scams" are actually the banks fault rather scammers utilizing banking equipment to run scams.  Now don't get me wrong, big banks are straight up criminal life-time scammers and are very good at it, but some stuff is outside their control such as skimmers and what not.

Bitcoin man in the middle type attacks and things of that nature also pose a threat, but at least you're controlling your money versus some big corrupt bank.

Those things that you stated can also be done with Bitcoin.  Just like how the criminals can force us to get our pin, they can easily  do it to get our BTC wallet seed phrase.  The only difference is that there is no third party that can assist this criminals to choose prospect and if the Bitcoin holder is somehow take good care of his privacy, these criminals won't have a chance to find out the person who owns the address that has lots of Bitcoin funds.


I do not experience any inconvenience with banks since I only use them to process the conversion of BTC and withdraw cash.

Ok, so it seems like someone pissed in your soup today.. but I will ignore that.

As a matter of fact, I have several cards with the contactless payment option "enabled" ....Yes, you can ask the Bank to disable it, but most people find it convenient and during "Covid" it was the safer option, because you did not have to type in a pin.

One of my close friends had their wallet stolen and the thief got hold of two of his cards where the "tap" feature were enabled. The one Bank allowed "unlimited' tapping for small amounts and the criminal went to a tavern in the informal settlement, where merchants do not ask questions and he bought alcohol ..until the account was empty. (Luckily the other card had a daily limit, so they could only tap until that limit was reached and then it was blocked)

Also, the optimum distance for the contactless payment are 4 centimetres or less, the signal are rapidly decreasing and can never exceed 10 centimetres.

The fact of the matter is, criminals have found ways to exploit payment systems ....not just with payment systems used by Banks and if we can find safer options to protect our wealth, then we should brainstorm ideas to do that with Bitcoin.

I was a victim of two incidents, where money was stolen from my Bank (online & offline) ...and that was one of the reasons why I started using Bitcoin. (I Googled for alternative payment options and I found Bitcoin)  ;)

The majority of individuals in the world we live in are aware that Bitcoin is far safer and more secure than a bank. Like others who have commented on this topic, I don't even use a credit card, let alone a debit card. I just have one card, from
E-wallet, which I may use to withdraw money from any ATM in our neighborhood.

Additionally, I convert the cryptocurrency I earn into what we have been trading for a few years using this software wallet whenever I have a peer-to-peer transaction.

At least I had some soup!
When you have on this forum 10 people that tell you that you don't have a clue what you're talking about it's time to retreat in the background!
Some of you don't realize how this kind of made-up praising for BTC can backfire, seriously, now when everyone has been complaining for months about the mempool, and how costly it is to make daily transactions how you can just wait or use another coin you're telling people to use BTC over cards? Yeah, they sure do, 400k out of which 300k are drawing monkeys in the blockchain versus 1 billion daily!

Just think twice:
- your friend gets his card stolen and is unblocked ready to spent, he can still call a bank to block it
- your friend loses his smartphone with his wallet without a pin, how safe are his bitcoins?
When you make up stories at least think twice before letting them out in the open!


You really fell hard for this one ;D  ;D  ;D. I think you got my soup bowl.
So, if:
- banks are scams
- cards are stupid and faulty

Why za fk are you a Bitcoin lover in possession and using "several cards" from the evil scamming banks that suck our blood?


No, I was talking about the attacker side, OP claimed that the attacker can come to you and in a matter of seconds empty your card by just bumping into you.
The PoS has a delay, after each confirmation it does another PoS to Visa(for example)  transmission on ending the session, then when you feed it with another recipe for another sum it will not get the key to initiate the transaction without a delay, no matter how fast you try to do it you will not get it ready in one second, it's the terminal itself that limits this.


I don't understand why every single time they need to be praising Bitcoin they go for the wrong stuff.
But I assume it's because deep in their hearts they know they're making the same mistakes with Bitcoin as they do with Fiat!

Trusting Binance or Kraken with their coins and KYC, not creating a back-up, using their wallets on the same smartphone they have downloaded one hundred shady apps, and the list can go on and on and on, the real advantages are still here but they want they cling to have been gone for years, it's no longer 2009 anymore.

I think the issue here should be looked at in terms of improving people's ability to use different services. There is no area that completely guarantees our risks. Only when there is a problem do we we just learned about it. I think that whether banking or using bitcoin has its own positive and negative aspects compared to the current context, there is not necessarily a comparison between them. However, I have seen that in recent years, online payment has become more and more convenient for small spenders, I can see myself easily paying for a pen online.

Now, more and more people are using Apple Pay or Google Wallet which eliminates most of the issues you have mentioned in your post. Frankly, I don't even remember when I had to use my plastic card for the last time.

As to the Bitcoin vs banks discussion, I guess mostly it depends on how you treat your money/assets not the technology you're using. Breaking some basic safety rules will lead to losing your funds and/or coins.

But I want to ask you, are you still using banking or have you really left it out of your life and your family? If you and your loved ones still use it in daily life, you should not speak ill of it, speaking ill of the things you still have to depend on every day will not help you get better. Furthermore, us bad-mouthing banks and fiat doesn't make bitcoin any better. If bitcoin is really good then people will recognize it and seek it out without having to badmouth fiat and banks. I am confident about the potential of bitcoin, one day everyone will need it because it has everything they need. They will realize for themselves what is bad and what is good for them.

The post is aimed at seeking ways Bitcoin can offer solution to the problem already identified. I think this should challenge us as believers in Bitcoin to manifest our creativity by proffering Bitcoin-based solution to the identified problems. I have once used Swipecoin which is pretty decent and cool to use. It was a wonderful Bitcoin payment system that was able to solve my problem then.

To foster mainstream adoption of Bitcoin, there should be innovations that places Bitcoin as a preferred alternative to other payment systems. If we think in this direction, we could better contribute to the success of this amazing technology such that governments and the institutions will be left with no other choice than to align.

Hmm, Quite resembling thoughts.. But for the scams, I think if users have not adopted the proper security measures the chances of a scam in Bitcoin re more higher than a regular banking system transaction and there can be no claim on the Bitcoin network because you've lost the funds due to your own errors, But in the banking sector if the amount is greater than a specific limit you file a case and by proper investigation if its their mistake you claim the compensation dn the refund as well.

Refunds on the Bitcoin network are rare as far as I know the most recent one is the USD-500K or 20 BTC overpaid transaction fee. The funds stolen from the user cant be tracked as the hacking is going use some kind of anonymity and nontraceable tricks and it will be around impossible to file a claim on it as this network brings a lot of merits for us but at the same time, we need to be careful for our own security.

Fiat system is easy to hack compare to the complicated system of cryptocurrency which makes it unique.

A lot of money being stolen freely by hackers or an inside job in a bank always happen because of its security. For me, I think the attacks that happened and still happening in some banks are not always because of hackers, it is the bank itself lowkey stealing their customers money by just blaming it to a third party, some of them didn't even give any compensation for the lost money of their customers, that's why I never trusted the banking system.

Don't you think that all of these issues are present because of the ease of convenience of credit cards ?
Any person can increase/decrease the credit card limit by just logging into their account and just doing few clicks.
We have physical credit cards so that we can easily make payments.
Further more they added tap feature to make it more easier to make payments without any pin.
All of these are making us more lazy, less secure and more prone to attacks.

Bitcoin is already better by making it harder for attackers since we have to enter the address, the private key/pin, double check everything and then make the payment.
There might be a little inconvenience in using bitcoin (although I don't feel it) but it's worth it considering the fact that we own our coins and it is secure.

Honestly bitcoin is way better than banks, know of someone whose account was hacked and a whole sum of 68million was removed from the person's account.

You don't expect a basic thief or a basic bank hacker to have the mindset that the person they are about to steal from has everything in bitcoin, most of them only know of bank savings.

I understand that a person can be forced and obtained of their secret pass phrase by a robber but that would be 1 robbery case out of 500 cases. It is still very rare for it to occur.

So bitcoin is still the best, it is the last thing any thief will want to think of.

We must work together if we want Bitcoin to solve problems. Your positive Swipecoin experience shows this. These stories and experiences must be shared to help everyone comprehend Bitcoin's real-world applications.

When discussing "fostering mainstream adoption," we may become bogged down in terminology. How is "mainstream adoption" defined? Do we mean everyone using Bitcoin for daily transactions or widespread acceptance and trust in Bitcoin as a currency? This problem could get in the way of our group goal.

However, your point is good. Our goal should be to innovate such that Bitcoin becomes the only option for governments and institutions. We can advance Bitcoin through regular dialogue and fresh thinking.

One of the common schemes right now happening in my country there's some unknown numbers keep calling and once you answer they didn't even respond seems like people are checking if your number are still active or not so there's a possible smishing they can provide you often, actually its always tired to have a message every day to an unknown number related that they are promoting a gambling casino, bank issues (issue on a bank that I even don't have lol), its glad that our phone right now are automatically blocked spam numbers. We have a SMS KYC but still they cant manage it to prevent those spammers keep doing this. As long as you didn't give any info and OTP still possible consider as safe.

Bitcoin is very secured far better because you are not being called to send your bank details orally or by text messages ,in Bitcoin you have your details within you,no one can encroach your private account you only give out your details by yourself to whoever you wish to, which I don't think you will,it is due to our carelessness or our quest for more money that some of us fall into some of these scammers. Just imagine you were sent a text message that you have been qualified or selected to have one million, money  you did not work for and you hurriedly followed the instructions which you have been asked o do after a few moment you started receiving debit alerts all you money have been transferred, who is to blame. Carefullness should be our watch word either Bitcoin or Bank

The advantage of owning Bitcoin from the banks is that we're all responsible for our own money. If something goes wrong then it's our fault and we're not going to blame any people or any third party service for it. While hackers and scammers are everywhere, it's happening every day.
Targeting our banking accounts and also our Bitcoin wallets depends on where you're active the most. Let us say about those success attempts in the bank/credit card accounts, only the company providers can trace those transactions and they can figure out where the money are spent. Whilst on Bitcoin, the transaction is on blockchain but we'll never know where it is transferred. So, there are pros and cons from both of it but no matter, f the banks, we're all for Bitcoin.

Does filling the post quota cross your mind?  :P

The easiest way to make abundant amount of topics, is to continuously praise Bitcoin. Bitcoin does this, bitcoin does that, and suddenly an endless page of meaningless posts is taking shape, because it is much easier to agree with someone, than to disagree (as the latter would require counter-arguments). It really doesn't matter if the author is correct; they have won, because of the Cunningham's law (https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cunningham%27s_Law).

Kakmakr, don't take this as an offense (it really isn't!). But, I just have noticed lots of forum users doing this, hopefully unconsciously.

All site possibilities for hacking not only with Bank but also Bitcoin has chance loss in our wallet, but have advantage with bitcoin when saving in own wallet because we have controlling by our self with bitcoin assets due not your key is not your coins. I think don't underestimate the bank's position because most important side when making local transaction, due in my country bitcoin can't acceptable as payment currency won't or not we must withdraw bitcoin assets to bank account before making deal or ability for transaction.

Bank and bitcoin assets can secure as well as depend with our self how to protect all data, if can't protect well actually has chance with bitcoin assets loss due many skimming website link send to our email account every day.

The bank system was survive over a century,so it had their own usage in the environment.The update of the banking system was the online transfer without using the cards.It’s just to scan the code to send the money to the merchant.The same was available in the bitcoin by scanning the code one can transfer the bitcoin to certain address.The biggest scam of the banking was the additional fee which was the hidden charges to us.Some bank will charge the message alert fee,but it should be made as free service by the banking system.

You are totally missing the point of this whole thread.... I am not saying Bitcoin are perfect and Banks are only bad.. I am pointing out the "failures" of the system that most of us are forced to use. How can I not use Bank services, if that is the only "authorized" legal currency in most countries.

Do you think I would still be using it, if governments allowed it and if it was legal tender? This is turning into a pissing contest or you are just trolling the shit out of this thread.. and I do not have the energy for that.

I posted this to ask the question.... How can Bitcoin do this better... not how Bitcoin are better, so let's just move on.

Apart from what you mentioned above...I have also abandoned the use of credit cards. Not as we expected when the bill is paid starting from interest, delivery fees, transaction fees, maintenance and at least stamp duty are also included in the bill.

If there are new users, various offers come from various companies under the pretext that we are one of the subsidiaries that have partnered with the bank you have submitted your credit card request to. who knows where they got our cell phone number, and if we are careless and agree to the request So, get ready for your bills to increase and if we look deeper, maybe they themselves (bank employees) sometimes don't use these facilities.

For me, the bank is only a bridge for me to withdraw money to my own bank account. Yes. Bitcoin is a better choice.

Generally speaking, the widely accepted perception is that Bitcoin or crypto for that matter is enabling many scams around as it is the preferred way for hackers to do business. Of course, this perception is biased since we know that the banking system itself is also a breeding ground of many scams and frauds victimizing people on a global scale. And since we are dealing here with technology, sometimes I realized that there is not much we can do but to accept this present reality. On a personal level, we should be educated and should always be careful when doing transactions whether crypto or via the banks.

I have had a trauma in the bank because of a close friend of mine who, I won't mention the name of the bank, has a time deposit, and then one time he had a p2p transaction and he entered an amount in the bank that's exactly where he had a time deposit. He was surprised one day that his account was put on hold. It is said that because of a transaction that the bank recognized as illegal, my friend is willing to prove that it is legal and that he has the documents that he is holding.

Then the only thing the bank told him was that he could still get his time deposit, but 30% would be returned to him. After those events, my friend lost trust in the bank because it's an event where your account can be frozen and your money can be legally stolen. So I learned from this experience.

I don't buy your story, it's not possible the banks only want to give 30% of the funds, it's a corruption. If they recognize there's an illegal transaction in your friends account, they're either allow or not allow you to withdraw all of your funds.

Even someone is breached the banks' time deposit rule, they will not charge as high as 70%.

I know using a card isn't totally safe, but I've never fallen a victim of card cloning or anything like that. Tapping a card continuously isn't typically a thing in my country, as, by default, the PIN is asked on the second tap and for amounts over $20 on all attempts.
If we're talking about Bitcoin in a custodial wallet (user-friendly, easy to use, instant transactions), I'm sure it's susceptible to similar risks. If it's a non-custodial wallet, I think the risks of someone getting the money are much lower, but it's also harder to use it for payments, considering transaction speed.

It was definitely a fabricated story. If the bank intends to appropriate the property, it will freeze it or not accept the other guy's explanation as legal. They will be able to take over the entire asset easily because it is illegal money, there is no reason for them to accept it as legal and charge 70%. Furthermore, @bettercrypto can you provide the specific amount your friend deposited in the bank? Is it a huge amount of money or just an insignificant amount?

This isn't a problem of the banks but an issues of personal security because Bitcoin in your wallet isn't immune to hacks or been stolen when you don't take security measures to make sure you're not a victim of this type of crimes. Your Bitcoin can be stolen when you store them in your mobile device or also in your hardware wallets but you're constantly moving with the devices. You can become a target and they do all the things you mentioned that can be done to forcefully take your mobile phone or device from you which is why we have to be security cautious irrespective of using credit cards or Bitcoin.


Invest in Bitcoin and store your Bitcoin in way it'll be hard for hackers or thiefs to gain access to. Don't store your Bitcoin on your phone or work laptop that you use to go about your daily businesses because you can get moh/rub just as your credit card can be stolen and wipe out all the money you have. You can keep small amount of Bitcoin that you'll need often in a mobile or hot wallet but your main investment shoudn't be stored that way. Bitcoin is decentralized and gives you great power and anonymity but with great power comes great responsibility.

Just as the banking industry is always improving the sector, for example the introduction of contactless card makes transactions seamless and stress free. The bitcoin network is also doing the same, the integration of lightning network makes transaction better faster and cheaper.

However, no matter how hard transitional banking and Bitcoin developers try to improve both networks, users will still be susceptible to different forms scams and hacks, fiats and Bitcoin will still be stolen. Sadly, there's nothing anyone can do about because it still balls down on the individuals to adhere to some basic security tips to keep their assets safe.

Yes, no matter what are implemented... scammers and thieves constantly evolve to adapt to the changes.. so it is the responsibility of the community to brainstorm new innovative ways to counter them, after that developers will take those ideas and they might implement that.

Just imagine if Bitcoin can come up with a good solution for many of these attacks and all the people that were victims of these attacks.. start migrating to Bitcoin or the Lightning Network for their payments.  ;)

No matter what technologies, security methods will be created, how better they are than what we have now, people will still be scammed.

Victims of scammers today can become victims in future if they don't change their practice. New technology and security method can not help those people because if they continue to be careless, they will continue to be victims.

Without Internet, there are scammers and victims but with Internet, then blockchain, then 2FA, there will still be victims of scammers.

You’re right, indeed. Both the banking sector and Bitcoin network are continuously evolving, offering us more convenience and efficiency. But as you pointed out, the security risks, unfortunately, still loom large. You’re absolutely right; its up to us individuals to remain vigilant and protect our assets. However, are we inadvertently blaming the victim here?

In saying that it all "boils down to the individuals," we might be missing the bigger picture. Yes, personal responsibility is paramount, but are the systems themselves doing enough to ensure user safety? Are we, as users, being provided with the necessary tools, knowledge, and support to effectively safeguard our assets? While we continue to adopt and adapt to technological advancements, we must never stop questioning and challenging these systems to do better for us, the users.

Of course, if we have the desire to make investments with aggressive growth but one thing I am sure of is that Bitcoin will break the rumors and negativity surrounding it and will enter the consumer space and Bitcoin also has the unique ability to eliminate the need for all banks. and it's all because of Bitcoin by market forces.

I don't really fancy banks too, only use them very occasionally to receive money and get some cash.

Moreso, I think even the banks are scammers themselves. The withdraw all sorts of undisclosed charges on your account and when you complain they tell you it's service charges, even when you ain't even using that particular service.

So, BTC is far better, and some of the reasons are already stated here.

You think right, because banks are doing scams but not directly instead lure people into some programs where they have no other choice but to accept the faith that there money is gone and now they cannot do anything. The first scam is loans, they will provide you easiest ways to take loans and a time will come when you will be stuck in loan cycle and you will get no way out. Then many people take there life too.

Few months ago a man in our country was under huge debt loan and suite but the fault was not only of the platform from where they took the loan but the fault was of the man too. People should not make choice that they know or at least have some idea that, are going to cost them.  Debt cycle can also be occur in BTC but the scams you have pointed out, is a good one and we can definitely save ourself with BTC from many scams.

That's why you need limits on your card. I have a single transaction limit of around $250. If I need to buy something more expensive, I'll use cash. I also have a wallet that blocks my card from scanners. It can be used only if it's out of the wallet.


The apps are also a positive addition because they send you messages every time your account is charged. If I saw a transaction I didn't make, I'd use the app to lock my card.

If somebody can make you enter pin code they can also make you give up your bitcoin.

Bitcoin was always better, but not the perfect solution. If you are unable to keep your privacy safe, you are most likely to get scammed. The first thing about owning Bitcoin is to never share or disclose the information about you owning Bitcoin. If no one knows your Bitcoin's whereabouts, you will never become a potential target for scammers or hackers. 
There are several ways to keep your keys and wallet safe. Choose the best one by doing some research if you wish to use a software-based wallet. But if you want the maximum security, go for hardware wallets. This is not something new. Your keys, your coins. No one will have control over your assets except you. And one solution to be safe from thieves and burglars is to keep a separate wallet and keep a small portion in it as a decoy. Make it seem like that that's the only wallet you own and if people force you to disclose the private key by force, then show that.
That way you could be somewhat safe.

If you don't like banks then you should stop using them. If you say banks are scams why do you still use them? Don't be like OP and talk bad about things you still depend on every day. If bitcoin is really so good, why hasn't it replaced banks yet, why haven't you converted all your assets to bitcoin? We should be honest with each other when discussing, don't try to live a fake life just because we want to flatter others. Bitcoin is really good but it will never replace banks and both have their own use cases.

Two important points you make are that Bitcoin transactions are not possible everywhere and another point is that Bitcoin transactions take extra time. If we have to sit for 30 minutes to an hour to pay with Bitcoin where payment is done in seconds with Credit Card or Debit Card then we will never want to do Bitcoin transaction.  
Bitcoin can be used as the best investment platform without transactions, we should think of transactions through Bitcoin at the time when Bitcoin will spread globally and people worldwide will transact through Bitcoin and when Bitcoin transactions will be completed in a short period of time just like debit cards and credit cards. Basically at that time we have to transact through Bitcoin.

Oh, yeah. With bitcoin you act directly with another person. This is exactly what is called p2p. There are no intermediaries between you who can disrupt the deal as in your story or steal money from a bank card, as in the story about your relative. This is precisely one of the greatest advantages of the bitcoin - the absence of unnecessary links between people / participants in any trade and monetary transaction. Because it is these extra links that jeopardize the financial relationship between the participants, and also put the safety of your money at risk, as in the banking system, in which too many people have access to your account.

In the case of bitcoin, some nuances arise in terms of the safety of your funds, because you will have to take on all the responsibility and organization of security. But I would rather choose this option, instead of blindly trusting banks (their security systems), which also employ ordinary people, with typical human weaknesses (greed), such as the desire to get easy money through theft and fraud, which exposes bank users to unnecessary risks. In my opinion, these risks are much higher than those that arise when you independently ensure the safety of your crypto assets.

It is true that the time has not come to replace the bank. The global economy depends on the banking system, if for some reason the banking system collapses even for a day, the global economy will also fall into big trouble. So the situation has not yet developed to go bankless using Bitcoin.

But there are some problems of banks which cause a lot of trouble in people's personal life. However, in practical terms, no matter how much a person is a bank hater, at the end of the day all his financial activities have to be done using the bank. Yes it is true now we are totally dependent on banks, maybe in the future we can reduce our dependency on banks and increase our freedom to use our own money.

It's an argument similar to asking someone, if you don't like your job, why do you keep on working?

Most people can't stop using banks because their employer demands they have an account. In many countries (for instance the whole EU) an employee must have a bank account. You can pay your contractors in cash, but someone who's employed by a business can't be paid in cash.

I'd gladly stop using banks if I had a full time job that paid me in bitcoin.

There are many definite opinions if you ask which better between BTC and Bank,
I personally say everything is good in storage, and both have their respective advantages
for the level of security both are equally insecure because they can be hacked and prone to fraud

You do not have to ask your employer to convert all your salary to Bitcoin, because in most countries that does not work. A lot of the things you have to pay, cannot be paid in Bitcoin...so doing that will be stupid.

I asked my employer to convert a small portion of my salary into Bitcoin, so that I can use it to pay for lunch at local food merchants that accept Bitcoin as a payment option. (Lightning Network) .... luckily for me, my boss are also a Bitcoin supporter... so he allowed it for a couple of us at work.  ;)

The thing is you have to ask and you also have to find merchants that accept Bitcoin as a payment option to use some of those coins. (80/20 split between hoard and use)

I believe Bitcoin provides creative solution to typical financial issues. In my knowledge a lost business opportunity brought on by a problem with a financial transaction left me defenseless and without any choices for tracking. Bitcoin offers clearness and lets you manage transaction delays by changing fees. Similar flaws in traditional banking, where third parties might take advantage of events, were exposed by an event involving an ATM used by a family. Because Bitcoin transactions take place directly through your wallet, your susceptibility to scams is reduced. Also, the openness of Bitcoin transactions reduces the need for convoluted administrative procedures when problems arise, providing a faster and more secure choice.

Yea. Bank loans are very dangerous especially when you don't have a concrete plans for that loan, you could end up in a financial mess if care is not taken.
 I have had issues with hidden charges with my banks on several occasions and they don't get resolved and I have concluded that it is a deliberate act to defraud unsuspecting customers.

This is a global reality and its hard to shake off. But lets not forget the power of alternatives and change. The concern you're highlighting is real; our economy is chained to the banking system. The pseudo-problem here, though, is the thought that we cant start making small shifts.

While its true, we cant fully replace banks right now. Its also true that we can start depending less on them by using cryptocurrencies for some transactions. Yes, complete financial freedom is not fully attainable now, but every bit of independence we gain is a step towards a future where we have more control over our own money. Isnt that the dream? Bit by bit, Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies can potentially help in making this dream a reality.

I can see that you lack comprehensive skills.

That I don't fancy banks doesn't mean that I hate them. I have my reservations when it comes to the banks and I have tonnes of reasons why which I wouldn't even wanna share with you.
And hope you are aware there are still so many people who don't use the bank and they are still surviving.

In addition to its features, I believe that banks have also enhanced security measures. To combat criminal activities such as skimming, banks have taken the proactive step of embedding chips in cards to safeguard against card cloning. The introduction of contactless features, in my opinion, is a notable advantage of these small chips present in every card. Consequently, fraudsters would need to gain physical possession of the card if they intend to misuse someone else's card for multiple tap transactions.

Other forms of fraud may only become apparent in 2 or 3 years when the bank's security systems have been compromised, causing harm to several individuals and subsequently coming to the attention of law enforcement.