Banking scams ...How are Bitcoin better?

[Kakmakr]

The Banks are continuously improving their service with offering that are more user-friendly and easy to use. One example of this are "Contactless Card Payments" where you tap your card for small purchases.

The scammers have figured out how to use that service to their advantage... by simply tapping it continuously (if it is not limited) and if it requires a pin... by watching you and following you after you have made a purchase. (They then take your card by force and physically tap it until your account are empty)

They also use card skimming devices to "clone" your card and use pin hole cameras to capture your pin while you are typing it. They can even bump into you with a device that will initiate a small purchase from your card that can "tap" 

Your credit card are constantly under attack, when you use it online and your Banking Apps are making you a target, because they only need access to you to force you to enter your pin... then they can change daily limits and transfer as much money as they like. (Local criminal syndicates work with Bank employees to identify potential targets.)

So, I was thinking... How can Bitcoin be better? Can we find better solutions for these attacks and will these solutions still give us ease of use? (No complexity but still user-friendly)

Share your experience with these Banking problems and give possible solutions for this, because we will draw a lot of people to Bitcoin, if we find innovative solutions to problems like this. 

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[Faisal2202]

I am not a big fan of banks, only use them when I have to withdraw money in local currency. I don't use debit or credit cards (for loan purposes) but to use ATM only. Not a fan of banking products which are nothing but a show-off. The point is, bitcoin is far better than banks in a hell lot of ways for example:
Decentralization
Full transparency
Faster transaction
Lesser taxes and fee
Besides that, there are more banking scams but fewer scams in BTC technology.

But, after reading your post hackers, thieves, and scammers have found many new ways to scam people (users of banks) like they can force you, they use pin hole camera, etc. Everything thing that you have aforementioned can be done for BTC users too.

They can force a person and can beat him for recovery phase, (once they get to know you are a BTC user) they can use hacking techniques (don't have to use pin hole camera to eavesdrop) they can simply eavesdrop on you by compromising your devices. But good precautions can make your BTC life more secure.

[_act_]

I am not a big fan of banks, only use them when I have to withdraw money in local currency. I don't use debit or credit cards (for loan purposes) but to use ATM only. Not a fan of banking products which are nothing but a show-off. The point is, bitcoin is far better than banks in a hell lot of ways for example:
Decentralization
Full transparency
Faster transaction
Lesser taxes and fee
Besides that, there are more banking scams but fewer scams in BTC technology.

Everything you said are right, bitcoin wallet too can be hacked, it is individual that needs to be very careful. Bitcoin is also decentralized and censorship resistant, but the faster transaction and lesser fee is only when you comparing fiat cross border payment with bitcoin transaction, if a fiat transaction is within a country and done locally, the fee is cheap and the transaction are fast. But fiat transactions can have error which bitcoin transaction can not have.

[Stepstowealth]

So, I was thinking... How can Bitcoin be better? Can we find better solutions for these attacks and will these solutions still give us ease of use? (No complexity but still user-friendly)

Bitcoin is already better because there are no cards and the chances of being scammed similarly to some bank scams have been reduced already to the least. If you will loose bitcoins to scam or to thieves, it is because of personal reasons like ignoring security tips like keeping your key safe, not clicking links you do not understand, or not acting fast enough to follow some security advice. If security tips and advice can really be followed, you will never be a victim of any form of scam.

[SamReomo]

The scammers have figured out how to use that service to their advantage... by simply tapping it continuously (if it is not limited) and if it requires a pin... by watching you and following you after you have made a purchase. (They then take your card by force and physically tap it until your account are empty)

I won't call those people scammers because they are somehow stealing your cards which fall into the category of thieves or bandits. And such things can happen with Bitcoin users as well. If some of those negative people learn about someone who has enough holdings in Bitcoin then they can kidnap that person and or someone closed to him/her in order to get the private keys of the wallets where he/she has stored the Bitcoin. It would be difficult task as compare to card snatching but it can also be done by those negative ones.

So, I was thinking... How can Bitcoin be better? Can we find better solutions for these attacks and will these solutions still give us ease of use? (No complexity but still user-friendly)

I believe Bitcoin is still safe than those credit and debit cards that the banks issue for the users. The best thing that makes Bitcoin safe is the privacy of the user who bought Bitcoin. The Bitcoin is 100% decentralized and can be purchased by anyone without any restriction. The Bitcoin holder can transfer his/her Bitcoin from one wallet to another without any issues.

The Bitcoin users can purchase Bitcoin using decentralized exchanges and those purchases will be very safe and none of the local thieves will know about such transactions. Although, Bitcoin can also be hacked but if someone does everything properly then there is very minimum chance of those hacks to take place. The banks are vulnerable to attacks from hackers while Bitcoin is safe from hackers as a network because most of the nodes are trusted and the hackers can't do anything directly to the Bitcoin blockchain.

[pooya87]

Bitcoin is already fixing a lot of that by design. You see the reason why most of these scam methods like using card skimming devices, cloning your card, stealing your pin, etc. happen is because there is a middle man between the user (aka the owner of the funds) and the holder of the funds (ie. the bank). So the scammer comes in between as another middle man and takes the secret information during the communication between the user and the bank.

In bitcoin the owner of the funds and the holder of the funds (and keys) are the same. There is no middle man involved so nobody can use any of these methods to steal your secrets.

[WillyAp]

Too many people are careless, they would also be careless with bitcoin.

[Die_empty]

Share your experience with these Banking problems and give possible solutions for this, because we will draw a lot of people to Bitcoin, if we find innovative solutions to problems like this. 

I have had many banking problem and it is better not to remember them. I have missed a business opportunity because the money I transferred to a client was not received. My pain was that I could do nothing about the transaction. The bank couldn't explain the cause of the problem and there was no means to track the funds because some intermediaries were involved. They just told me to wait for seven working days without explaining what the problem was. But bitcoin is different. If your transaction is stuck in the mempool it will be obvious and you have options to make your transactions to be confirmed. I would have opted to increase the transaction fee than to lose that lucrative business opportunity.

A relative's ATM was stuck in the bank's automated teller machine. Since that day was a public holiday,  he couldn't access the bank that same day. After a few hours he began to receive debit alerts,  his funds were transferred out of his account and all the funds he had in his account were withdrawn. From investigation, it was discovered that a bank official was the criminal. The banker accessed the ATM took the card and transferred the funds to an online bank. This loss was caused by an intermediary and a card. With bitcoin, I don't need any card or middleman to do my transactions. With just my wallet, I can send and receive funds. One doesn't need to expose himself to scammers that are around the banking system. He asked the bank for the details of their investigation but he was asked to get clearance from the police and affidavit from the court. But with bitcoin, you can see the movement of your coins without any bureaucratic process.

[Faisal2202]

Everything you said are right, bitcoin wallet too can be hacked, it is individual that needs to be very careful. Bitcoin is also decentralized and censorship resistant, but the faster transaction and lesser fee is only when you comparing fiat cross border payment with bitcoin transaction, if a fiat transaction is within a country and done locally, the fee is cheap and the transaction are fast. But fiat transactions can have error which bitcoin transaction can not have.

Thanks for narrowing down the transaction and fee part, because making payment locally are cheaper while the BTC payments are not. That's why many merchants and vendors don't accept or enthusiasts to use BTC as a payment method at the local level. Because the transaction fees are huge, but still, the lightning network takes care of this part.

Sometimes, making transaction using a banking app, result in an error, like invalid errors, which are really troublesome. And let me point out another good benefit of the BTC payment system over the banking app. Which is in our country mobile phones are so expensive nowadays, because the tax is so high, the tax is 2x the actual price of the mobile, but tax will be only implied when we have to register it with PTA. After registration, we will be able to use sims on it.

But what most people do, is they simply patch their phones and patch phones don't run baking apps and after 1 or 2 months the phone also lost its patch when a new update came in the smartphone. The thing is, we don't have to see this issue with BTC because in banks there we have to input OTP while in BTC we don't have to. A plus point for patch phone users.

[stompix]

The scammers have figured out how to use that service to their advantage... by simply tapping it continuously (if it is not limited) and if it requires a pin... by watching you and following you after you have made a purchase. (They then take your card by force and physically tap it until your account are empty)

That's not how transactions happen.
Each generation has a unique key, tapping on it multiple times won't make a double or triple purchase. The "scammer" would have to issue a new payment every time to charge you and that is not done in a second, there is a built-in delay in every of those PoS.

Second, you won't get a contactless card to trigger a confirmation by following a guy, it barely works 2 cm directly from the sensor, and I've used this thing a thousand times to realize it makes no sense even bumping into somebody with it, one layer of clothes and a wallet are enough.
Besides, this whole thing just highlights how banks are better than Bitcoin here, you have chargebacks, and you can get your money instantly back, with Bitcoin good luck, who are you going to call?

They can even bump into you with a device that will initiate a small purchase from your card that can "tap"  

As I said above, this is bs! You've never seen or used a contactless card right?
And what is the scammer going to do, wait 30 days hoping you're not going to ask your bank about this, and then go to his own bank and withdraw the money they have scammed from you. Really? What's next drug dealers coming to the police to demand damages for getting paid with fake notes for fentanyl?

Share your experience with these Banking problems and give possible solutions for this, because we will draw a lot of people to Bitcoin, if we find innovative solutions to problems like this.

Ok, so this is a bank-hating topic, not a topic about facts, got it!
Let's lie to ourselves cause that will make us feel better!

[NeilLostBitCoin]

So, I was thinking... How can Bitcoin be better? Can we find better solutions for these attacks and will these solutions still give us ease of use? (No complexity but still user-friendly)

Share your experience with these Banking problems and give possible solutions for this, because we will draw a lot of people to Bitcoin, if we find innovative solutions to problems like this. 

Honestly, the only difference is these attacks are not working in Bitcoin because Bitcoin and Credit Card are very different systems. Banks or credit cards are accessible in almost any country compared to Bitcoin. Let's assume that scammers worldwide know how this system operates and how to bypass it. The only thing that matters is the user, who would protect their cards. Like in Bitcoin, the credit cards are their seed phrase, and we know that if someone knows your seed phrase, they can access your funds. So, let's protect our cards or seed phrases.

[ancafe]

So, I was thinking... How can Bitcoin be better? Can we find better solutions for these attacks and will these solutions still give us ease of use? (No complexity but still user-friendly)

Share your experience with these Banking problems and give possible solutions for this, because we will draw a lot of people to Bitcoin, if we find innovative solutions to problems like this. 

What is certain is that everything that is created must have a level of weakness and if the system is controlled by someone else it will be much more complicated. For example, like banking and we don't have access to their system, so the possibility of hacking really depends on the security system they have created. I am not one of the users who trusts banks too much, but I see that their system is still quite weak and once in my country their system stopped working because it was attacked by hackers, so there was extraordinary panic at that time.

Bitcoins can be secured with recommended wallets and this advantage is what makes it better, although there are several cases involving users' own mistakes in storing bitcoins, so they lose the bitcoin assets they own. In essence, the role of each of us is very important to safeguard these assets and if we care about the level of security then use a safer wallet according to the best recommendations available.

[Forever101]

I do not believe there is any possible solution to such a scam as it involve threat to the life of the owner of the card. What do you do at gun point, so let's just be careful and pray not to fall to hand of the wicked ones. Even if you have Cryptocurrency with the highest level of security, can you refuse a theif request to provide the neccessary details for transfer of coins from your wallet at gun point?.

I strongly believe , security measure is very important. The competition between the centralized and Decentralized system is pushing us to  more innovation that will bring a better life to humanity. It is the function of every individual to decide which to use base on their understanding of the system.

As bitcoins continue getting more awareness, it is important to focus on users using them for business transaction and not just an investment. 90% of bitcoin users are holders, we hope for a time when the level of usage will be calculated base on real life purchase and payment. It is at this point , the banking system will begin to loose it's power.

[BlackHatCoiner]

The "scammer" would have to issue a new payment every time to charge you and that is not done in a second, there is a built-in delay in every of those PoS.

I think that the OS is what protects the user in the case that someone steals their phone. There is a timeout setting, wherein the user has to authenticate the transaction. I'm a Google Pay user, and I've noticed that if I leave my phone open for a couple of minutes, I cannot make a payment. I'll have to turn off and on.

Do we have data on thefts with stolen smartphones? I have never heard of such case once, and I'm pretty sure you can call your bank and reverse it before it's too late. Nevertheless, this means the merchant bears the financial burden once again.

[NeuroticFish]

Share your experience with these Banking problems and give possible solutions for this, because we will draw a lot of people to Bitcoin, if we find innovative solutions to problems like this. 

Banks go better and cheaper than in the past. What you wrote here seem to be over-inflated stories from people who don't really use cards.

And fyi, nowadays if one is so scared that people will steal from their NFC card have the option to block/freeze the card until seconds before the next purchase or use Google Pay or similar and keep their NFC off until the moment of paying.

Bank problems are different:
* they can decide for you if they allow you use your money for various things (gambling and crypto are most known examples)
* banks can go bankrupt, which in non-EU countries would not be pretty
* banks are slow, especially on international transfers
* various banking operations cannot be done in non-working hours (and obviously also not in the week-ends)
* if you want to keep your money in a bank you may have to pay fees
* they work only with the inflation-eroded fiat
* they are centralized
* they are hungry for your KYC data, transactions data and whatever else they can find out about you


The list may be longer too. As you can see, the list is not small, so we can better discuss on the facts, not on various... tales.

[NotATether]

Too many people are careless, they would also be careless with bitcoin.

Yeah.

These criminals are taking advantage of every financial instrument under the sun. They're gonna continue doing that until the end of time.

[ChuckBuck]

Yes, of course! The "improved" banking services are really just a hiding place for security holes. Although they say it's user-friendly, I think it's more scammer-friendly. Contactless card payments? More like an infinite number of ways for thieves to tap, tap, tap away your money without any problems. These scumbags who skim, copy, and tap are outrageously brazen. While typing your PIN, you are unaware of the eyes watching every move and the sly pinhole cameras.

And you are totally right. There are a lot of criminals on the internet. The “convenient” banking apps, are they truly convenient or just conveniently making you the perfect, exposed target? All of this is a big, bad movement of lying and stealing.


Could bitcoin be the one who saves us forever? But then again, how much can we trust Bitcoin? Can it hold up against these bad guys? Can it promise us simple, easy transfers while also making the walls stronger against these leeches? Only we can save ourselves.

[JunaidAzizi]

Share your experience with these Banking problems and give possible solutions for this, because we will draw a lot of people to Bitcoin, if we find innovative solutions to problems like this. 

When new technologies came theft developed a crack for it as you mentioned in the case of the contactless card system and in what way the thief uses it. The situation is in every robbery case the third party is always involved, how someone says that the theft took the money of a person who came out from the bank is an example of how the theft knows that this person has withdrawn a lot of money or in case of accounts hacking in the bank who gave them the knowledge of this, This clearly shows that the third party is in contact with the thefts, and all this happens in the banking system. In the case of Bitcoin, it is more secure than a bank as it a decentralized its transaction is clear and the thief can't take it from you until you give them your keys. But above a user mentioned that even the wallet is not secured and can be hacked so my question is at least what to do to save our funds, the banks are not secure, wallets are not secure then what else that we have to trust it?

[CryptoHeadlineNews]

So, I was thinking... How can Bitcoin be better? Can we find better solutions for these attacks and will these solutions still give us ease of use? (No complexity but still user-friendly)

Share your experience with these Banking problems and give possible solutions for this, because we will draw a lot of people to Bitcoin, if we find innovative solutions to problems like this. 

Don't you think the more easier a medium offers an easy mode of payment, likewise the more easier/prone it is to thefts, hacking and scam? Because taking a look from how this "tap-to-pay" (i.e contactless card) method works, I doubt if such could ever exist with the use of Bitcoin for making payment. Hence, the less we try to make Bitcoin payment easier, the lesser we record scam/theft and robbery of bitcoiners. So for me, I will say that i'm very much okay with the decentralized current security feature Bitcoin, and as such less we try to implement all the feature we see/notice from our traditional banking system, the better for us and the entire Bitcoin community.

[dothebeats]

Too many people are careless, they would also be careless with bitcoin.

Just a suggestion lad, if you are going to reply try to make it longer because the system may deem you as spam if you have one-liner replies. I'm just looking out for fellow forum members.

Anyway, you're right. Whether it is through banks or Bitcoin there will always be a way for people to just lose money or get scammed. Hence, it is up to us to secure our money and ensure that we are not being careless about it. We have to be smart with our transactions and how we keep it. As much as there are issues regarding the bank that we cannot fully control, there are also instances that this might happen to our digital wallets.