Bitcoin Forum

Alert: https://www.bis.org/publ/othp76.pdf

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Say welcome to a new pilot program launched by the BIS (Bank for International Settlements (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_for_International_Settlements)), Eurosystem, De Nederlandsche Bank, and the Deutsche Bundesbank

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/twitter.com/samcallah/status/1712128988611563803

So in other words not only they regulate exchanges but now they want to identify the people using Bitcoin from on_off chain data as well? What we have way too many is a mixer, unless they have a plan to control all the mixers as well, there is no way to ID people based on "addresses".

I don't think they are looking in the direction of mixers as that will be very difficult to monitor and will defeat the very essence of mixers. The best they can achieve is to collaborate and monitor the exchanges as the interface for fiat and Bitcoin conversion.

It won't take long until they link web scrapping data with exchanges and bank data.

I am afraid Even forum user might get their identity exposed using such data.

Using a mix or at least Doing a few hops on every transaction before sending to exchanges is very important

Lol I only had to read "surveilling" and "BTC" to know that this project is going to be one giant flop.

I do not see how it is possible to surveil anyone through BTC transactions. Sure the exchanges have the KYC information but there are non-kyc exchanges and ways of buying and selling Bitcoin anonymously. How do you possibly propose to surveil that? And what about the miners? Sure you could go to great lengths to obtain the personal data of the miners but you still would not be able to identify every miner.

At best, this project will only surveil what is already surveilled.

Exactly, Bitcoin's Blockchain is public and attempts to follow flows is available for everyone, so it's not very surprising in my opinion.

For medium to small transactions, it might be very inaccurate. There are so many issues when it comes to analyzing such data.
It might only be somehow accurate for large transactions and if there's really put some effort behind it (which is a very high hurdle due to paperwork).
At least, one more reason for Bitcoiners to apply privacy-enhancing measures.  :)

Ah, I must say that they have put a lot of effort to write that paper but unfortunately they won't be able to do that in reality. The project Atlas won't work and that's the reality they don't want to hear, their project will fail miserably. They won't be using any black-hat tactics to spectate each Bitcoin account because that's literally not possible and what I believe is that they will be surveilling the users who have made their accounts on the regulated centralized exchanges. But, still they wont be able to know the real owners of the Bitcoin wallets because in KYC enabled exchanges the tech-geeks or you can say dirty-minded guys use someone else's KYC details and they exchanges really don't care much about such issues.

I don't think that they'll be able to find the users that use decentralized exchanges because the decentralized exchanges won't ask for KYC data and even those exchanges don't really who the real owners of the coins. The mixers and tumblers will also do their job in the best way possible and the project atlas will get kicked badly.

I believe this is only their downside, right now I don't see any entities that can able to do this. But just take note that using mixers will not make you 100% guaranteed, so still be careful.
I am also worried about our current centralized exchanges where for sure they will cooperate on this project which I think they have part on this also.

I took a look at it (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5469270.msg62948322#msg62948322) for my local board last week, and frankly found it unimpressive, at least judging by the dashboard screenshots (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5469270.msg62953165#msg62953165) provided in the documentation, where the data seemed pretty basic, and where the depiction of their methodology for compiling the data for country attribution seems to focus largely on where the Exchange resides.

This approach may way work in a rather limited and partial manner for data originated in some local Exchanges, where most of their customers are from within that country, but for the most, and regarding the bulk of large Exchanges, there is no way to perform a geographical attribution based on the simple assumption of where the Exchange resides.

Not to mention that most of the data they use, I presume, is derived from examining hot wallet Exchange addresses and their flows. All flows to/from custodial wallets are in essence off the grid in terms of geolocation on one or both of the ends, so the data is really working on a subset of reality, and applying a simple hypothesis for geolocation, which is often going to be flawed.

I get the feeling that it’s one of those projects pushed by one of the Big 4, knowing that currently the information is nowhere close to being reliable and likely not even that significant.