Bitcoin Forum

I don't want to advertise anything. But isn't it true that if instant version of btc is invented such protocol starts to beat bitcoin?
There is a new protocol that is identical to BTC. PoW, maximum supply cap, halvings. But it is instant. Real-time payments in the first layer. Practically, Bitcoin 2.0. I just don't understand. Am I the only one who sees it?
The only Btc problem is speed. And it is solved. That btc copy is instant. Because i just don't understand why no one else sees it.

Litecoin transaction speed is very fast. Its developers copied everything about bitcoin but just that it has some differences like different supply and the way the price is different. But it has halving and other things like bitcoin. It is using PoW.

Some others that called themselves alternatives are centralized.

Altcoins do not have strong blockchain like bitcoin. 1 confirmation on bitcoin blockchain is safe and secure than 10 to 100 confirmations or more on altcoins blockchain.

You have it: Bitcoin Cash and Bitcoin Satoshi Vision (BSV) and their problems are less users on those chains even they have years of existences.
https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin-cash/
https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin-sv/

Speed and security can not come together. You only can have one and miss another. Do you want security or speed?

https://howmanyconfs.com/

BCH transaction needs about 8 days to have similar security like 1 hours of Bitcoin transaction.

I do not know, and neither do I have any idea of what you are talking about, since Bitcoin came into existence and opened a new financial world known as the crypto currency ecosystem, there have been a lot of altcoin projects that tried to steal bitcoin's glory by claiming to solve one or two problems that hunts bitcoin and it's blockchain, for some, it is speed, and for others, it is high fees.
To also add, there have been different number of forks, where the bitcoin blockchain is split into two, bringing about the birth of a new bitcoin-like coin to rival bitcoin and try to dethrone it, but all this have failed.

And what are we supposed to learn from all this?, we are supposed to by now, know that what ever is created by man is not perfect, bitcoin is not perfect, and neither are any of this altcoins trying to become the new bitcoin perfect.
Bitcoin can't be dethroned, if it was possible to dethrone bitcoin, it would have happened a long time ago in the days of BCH, BSV and so on.

Even with your smart approach of advertising another altcoin, I know and most of us here know that your surely shilling for some coin that you have refused to mention yet but actually waiting for some to request you to mention the particular coin.

We all know this strategies but I would love to say take such post to altcoin discussion.

Like the two to three coins mentioned above they both provide speed for payments but aren't safe as Bitcoin, so what do you prefer? Safety or speed? Centralized or decentralized (privacy).

It is only easy on paper. When you start thinking about it, you'll start finding problem after problem.
For example when blocks are found "instantly" in your hypothetical blockchain, the whole decentralized network also has to be updated "instantly" which is not possible due to delays. You also have to find a way to solve the problem with competing blocks that are created "instantly" so that you can build the "chain" of blocks sequentially and not end up with a lot of stale blocks every second.
Not to mention that such a blockchain would grow too big and too quickly that makes running a full node impossible in a very short time without relying on a strong server. Which means end of decentralization.

Speed is not the problem, the spam attacks that clog the network and increase the fee and create a competition over the capped block space and cause "delays" to get your tx confirmed is the problem.

This is accurately correct. No project made by man is perfect, even if other projects have qualities that Bitcoin don't have they are still no match for the accomplishments of Bitcoin. Being the first alone is enough reason to be proud of. In the place of speed and high fee, I believe the lighting network can be of great benefits there, just that it cannot be used for transactions with high figures. Another thing to consider is the overall reputation of the coin. Unlike every other coin, Bitcoin is well addressed and respected by the SEC themselves.

I heard that BSV support to accept the coins without any confirmation, so the receiver can spend or use the coins without need to be confirmed. It's called as zero confirmation and it's not safe since the transaction prone to get double spend attack. It's instant, but not secure, do you think it's better than Bitcoin which not instant and completely secure?

That's not true at all. There are a number of other cryptocurrencies that claim to be "Bitcoin 2.0" by offering faster transaction speeds.  Sure, maybe some of those altcoins can process transactions quicker by cutting corners.  But they just dont got the same backbone as the OG Bitcoin.  The whole point of crypto is that it's supposed to be immutable, decentralized, and secure.  Other coins out there might be sacrificing that decentralized structure - putting too much control in the hands of a few big players.  And that kinda misses the spirit of this technology.

Bitcoin's got real resilience because so many folks across the world are invested and supporting the network.  It's withstood the test of time and bounced back from crashes again and again.  The trust and acceptance thats been built so far can't just be replicated overnight.  Slow or not, BTC still has the strongest foundations in my book. 

I'm always a bit skeptical when these supposed Bitcoin killers come out spouting fancy buzzwords and big promises.  In the end, nothing has truly dethroned the top dog yet.  I'd rather stick to the tried and true than jump on some flashy bandwagon.

Probably you are right. They claim to process pow block every second. That means that block has 10 confirmations in 10 seconds. And that they currently run test net with a 0.1-second pow block. 1 second for 10 confirmations. Basically instant.
I think they are some PoS fake centralized. Because this is simply impossible. PoW can't be that fast.

The concept you’re referring to sounds like the Lightning Network (https://lightning.network/), a second-layer payment protocol that operates on top of Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. It provides near-instantaneous transactions between two parties (https://lightning.network/). This protocol allows for lightning-fast blockchain payments without worrying about block confirmation times.

The original Bitcoin protocol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin_protocol) emphasizes a decentralized network with no central oversight, cryptographic security, and proof of work while an instant version of Bitcoin could indeed have advantages in terms of transaction speed, it doesn’t necessarily mean it would beat Bitcoin in all aspects or be widely adopted and changes to the Bitcoin protocol require consensus among network participants.

If you dont mind my asking, which coin were you looking at? Im happy to dig into their white paper and see if their claims hold any merit or if they are mostly hype.  There is so many coins out there now, it is impossible to keep track of them all! But I do try to keep an open mind and give new projects the benefit of the doubt before passing judgement.

Either way, healthy skepticism is wise when companies make big claims that seem too good to be true.

Don't think that the idea hadn't come to the developers  minds.A few developers also fork bitcoin with advanced features. But ultimately, every coin except Bitcoin is called an altcoin. They won't be Bitcoin at any cost. I also wish to speed up Bitcoin transactions, but security is also a matter here. The Bitcoin blockchain is secured from any other blockchain. You can find some alternative altcoins, but they aren't like Bitcoin security, hence they failed to become popular. The ordinal protocol raised some issues by congested Bitcoin blockchains. I feel this problem will be solved, and everything will be normal very soon. It's just hype and shouldn't last longer.

There are protocols that is very fast and you can say it's instant as compare to Bitcoin. But it doesn't mean that they have the consensus or support of the community because as you can see Bitcoin is still the top crypto no matter how many altcoins that we have right now, thousands of them and yet they can't even come close to Bitcoin. Of course, as we have said, it's known already and we see it, but as a prime mover, it's hard to switch from those altcoins and pretending to be the next Bitcoin. If you want then you can convert your Bitcoin->altcoin of your choosing and see how it goes for you as far as investment goes. And Bitcoin is more secure than any other altcoins, just to let you know. So there is also a big risk on altcoins even if you said that they are very fast and Bitcoin transaction is very expensive for now.

Bitcoin Core is open source software, hence there comes the "new" Alts or any other crypto project whose "genesis" is the idea of bitcoin.
On the other hand, the scalability of bitcoin should not only be measured by transaction times, there are solutions already proposed, anyway, the last thing  is a solution that is not bitcoin.

I think that with the years that have passed and as a frequent user of bitcoin as it is, solutions have been incorporated and in general what exists does not mean a problem for using bitcoin.

It is not perfect, but it is a matter of understanding what the alternatives are when the transaction has delays and one of them is simply paying the high priority fee, most of the time it will even take a couple of minutes.

anyone can copy bitcoin but this not means you will obtain the same "bitcoin" that we have nowadays.
Likewise how has been distributed, it's something unique. It's useless try to find this new second standard also because we know very well crypto currencies and it's not anymore a "novelty".
There is LN that is pretty fast and easy to be used. I don't think this is a missing feature in bitcoin

I don't see it that way from here; the OP saw some new coins or a new project proposing some kind of idea that he or she thinks is going to be a better version of bitcoin based on what the developers have listed as the blockchain capabilities, so I don't see it as any form of shilling.
 
Projects of this nature come time without number to try to make some trend and manipulate the minds of young investors so that they will take advantage of their investments, and at the end of the day, everything that they might have listed on their to-do list will be left half-way, and most of them don't even get the projected start, and some of them don't even achieve a positive result at the end of the day.

Satoshi is definitely not the one to be designing it, which means it's going to be centralized, and in this world, there is nothing that has ever had an advantage without any disadvantage, not a system under centralized control without having drawbacks.

Although I did not start using Bitcoin back in 2009 or 2010, I cannot really tell the difference in transaction speed between then and now, but I am having the thought that Bitcoin transactions were faster then than now, and now we know that there are a lot of investors, which usually floods the mempool with thousands of transactions to be confirmed.

It seems this coin is long discussed here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5373286.0, if only i found it ealier...

Whatever claims to be BTC and isn't actually BTC can not be BTC. You see, there are loads of things that goes as rewards to pathfinders, in most cases, those pathfinders don't really give out their entire blueprint, if you get to copy them, you will surely have vulnerabilities.

Bitcoin network is one of the most secure network in the blockchain space and whoever thinks he has a good copy type should thread carefully as he might not be able to withstand the pressure when it comes knocking.

I do not trust whatever BTC 2.0 there is anywhere.

even instant isnt instant

when verifying and collating transactions even by the block template creator it takes portions of a second.
to then hash a block id is portions of a second
to then broadcast a hashed block to peers is portions of a second

lets just imagine it as 0.1second per portion. and for demo sake its 0.4seconds per block from unconfirmed tx to peer seeing confirmed in block

meaning each full block takes 0.4seconds

now imagine a nefarious miner just hashes EMPTY BLOCKS (a 0.1second task) and then after X blocks he then broadcasts all of his blocks to orphan and replace the genuine chain
now the nefarious miner can control the blockchain at 4x rate to genuine blockchain users

the nefarious user can go back 4 blocks and empty block them faster then the genuine blockchain can create one new filled block

as with exponential numbers

a nefarious miner can go back 12 blocks in less time then genuine users can fill 3 blocks
a nefarious miner can go back 200 blocks in less time then genuine users can fill 50 blocks

This is an aged discussion about the scalability of Bitcoin. For me it is possible as we already have a lot of new cryptocurrencies that are extremely fast transactions and cheap transaction fees. But most of the common issues from them is decentralization, which Bitcoin has. Some projects discussion and challenge are the decentralization,  you manage to solve the scalability but the decentralization?

With instant blocks, one after another, reorg will become very big problem.

I don't have problems with Bitcoin blockchain even its block time is 10 minutes if on chain transaction fee won't be too expensive for me. With my small money, I don't want to pay too much of it for transaction fee but it is what's going one with Bitcoin blockchain since 2023.

I hope Bitcoin developers will find technical solution to handle the expensive fee but I want security too so 10 minutes block time does not need to be changed to be smaller.

it's not just you who see it but many parties see this as a problem and because of that they launched their own "bitcoin" which they claim is "the next bitcoin" which is fast, secure and more reliable than bitcoin. but what next? are they successful in pitching their ideas to more people and attracting people to their products? apparently not.

you can say bitcoin gold, bitcoin cash, bitcoin sv, litecoin, and many other coins that copy bitcoin and improve some parts of it, but people still have much more trust in bitcoin compared to these altcoins which proves how bitcoin is still trusted by more people because of its security and decentralization despite the fees which are sometimes quite high.

I don't think the main problem with Bitcoin is its slow payment speed. But it is certainly an important issue. However, it seems to me that this problem is greatly exaggerated. If someone is not satisfied with the low speed of payments in Bitcoin, then he can always use other cryptocurrencies. Why not use Ripple or Cardano or Polkadot? Yes, there are now a huge number of altcoins with high payment speeds. Another thing is that all these payments need to be recorded in the blockchain, and this leads to rapid littering of the blockchain. This is another problem that few people pay attention to. What to do if the blockchain grows too fast?

In terms of speed, there are probably hundreds of altcoins that are faster than Bitcoin. But speed is not the point. The point is about decentralization and many other factors including the fact that Bitcoin is created by somebody unknown, that it is the first successful decentralized cryptocurrency, that it is the most used, accepted, and widely adopted. No one can beat Bitcoin in all of this combined.

Bitcoin Gold, Bitcoin Cash, Bitcoin 2.0, etc are not Bitcoin. They're altcoins. They never can replace the original.

I mean LTC is a copy of bitcoin sort of and they're not that valuable as bitcoin, even if there's more clones that will pop up out of nowhere with bitcoin, I think that we're still going to see that bitcoin will reign supreme, it's not just a matter of who's got more efficient solutions to the flaws that bitcoin's got, there's more to it like level of seniority and popularity, you can't really top those two especially the former and the only way that you can beat bitcoin in popularity is if your coin got more valuable than bitcoin and so far no one has ever dethroned bitcoin in that aspect yet despite everyone selling their own coin with their very own solutions.

Every altcoin that launches claims to solve Bitcoin’s problems. Tezos launched their ICO when there was a lot of disagreement on Bitcoin over scaling. They claimed that their blockchain could solve these disputes through on-chain governance. That claim was debunked when infighting between their founders led to lawsuits that caused their launch to be delayed by over a year.

If somebody could actually solve Bitcoin’s problems they could easily submit their proposal to the community. Instead they make these claims with the expectation that people will give them millions of dollars for some new shitcoin, without any intention of improving Bitcoin.

https://i.ibb.co/vQR6WpL/kaspa-10bps-ezgif-com-video-to-gif-converter.gif

They claim that they have achieved the same speed as PoS. But this is PoW. This is some new technology someone needs to check it.
I personaly think that PoS is just fake. Only pow is the real thing and all pos networks will eventually be devalued.
Real coin must have halvings and maximum total supply. And miners.

Also big echanges do not list it. So something might be wrong here.

If you are unaware of BTC copycats then go to coin tracking sites and see how many projects with Bitcoin names on it and the idea isn't new and you are free to fork the bitcoin and create the version which has all the features better that bitcoin but it will be completely decentralized like bitcoin that is the problem and you can't convince people to trust a forked coin is better than bitcoin.

Kaspa isn't safe as Bitcoin, cost and chance to attack the network is still possible https://www.crypto51.app/ and there are only 3 big pools in Kaspa, if foundrydigital and antpool are working together, their hashrate is exceed more than 50% among other pools https://miningpoolstats.stream/kaspa

Most people choose Bitcoin because it's the most safest coin, you can sleep well and no need to think if you might lose your coins.

You're late in the news we already know the existence of these copycat Bitcoins that claim that they are better because they are fast but so many of these coins are centralized the developers of these coins increased the supply and then mined it first so they could become the whales when the community adopted it.

since Bitcoin is open-sourced they copied the source and created a tweak to try to beat Bitcoin, but there's only one decentralized coin in the market right now and that's Bitcoin.
Don't believe the hype these developers and their supporters are propagating that their version is much better and they are the next big thing

You are describing the forks of Bitcoin and there were many of them, but thank goodness that they've been stopped a long time ago.
But still, some of them exist and trying to be relevant in this market. Don't believe with those forks and don't make yourself available to invest to any of them because all they think is Bitcoin is beatable. And in reality, they've been trying to conduct that as well for a very long time but none of them was able to do it to the real, actual and one and only Bitcoin.

Litecoin is speed as much as that when it comes for a transaction and charge fees is very low. In other words Bitcoin is still the best and not comparing it to any other alt-coins in the cryptocurrency market industries.

I agree. If somebody has to find a way to use something else other than Bitcoin, Litecoin is a great choice. Why should we look for something else when an altcoin that has already been trusted by a lot of members in the crypto community is already available? Litecoin has been serving as a great alternative. It is one of the most widely used cryptocurrency, a nice alternative to use especially when the fees of Bitcoin are beyond tolerance and the confirmation time takes days.

Rather than using something like Bitcoin 2.0, I'd rather prefer Litecoin indeed.

You seem to have a valid point. Speed is indeed a significant issue for bitcoin, but it is necessary for ensuring the security of a transaction by confirming it on the blockchain. If you have come across the bitcoin 2.0 you're mentioning, with a protocol similar to bitcoin's PoW but faster, could you please share it with us for a visit and verification of its legitimacy?  I'm aware of the Lightning Network, which is remarkably fast but operates as a layer 2 solution for bitcoin. You mentioned a first layer, so it's likely something different.

Bitcoin is Bitcoin, you cannot replicate it, and if someone comes up with Bitcoin 2.0 it won't be Bitcoin. It will be another Litecoin or in other words an altcoin, Bitcoin already has a layer two solution which is known as Lightning Network. LN solves all the issues of Bitcoin but it is still not considered as Bitcoin and those who love it would use it. In the same manner, the BRC20 token is not considered Bitcoin even if it is using the main chain, so whatever the OP is talking about has been tried and Bitcoiners are not interested.

In my opinion, currently there is not a single coin that can match Bitcoin's achievements, but if you look at it in terms of transactions and low gas fees, I think Lite coin is the right choice, but its price and popularity are far less than Bitcoin. if we talk about Bitcoin alternatives, I think Ethereum and Binance are very appropriate choices, because these altcoins can be Bitcoin alternatives that have very convincing fundamentals and popularity in the crypto market.

The market is open for everyone to invest and trade. Bitcoin is popular in the market, everyone knows about the project but not everyone have the ability or knowledge to invest in the project because they're afraid of the volatility of bitcoin. Bitcoin have no duplicate because it's more consider to be a stable coin in the market. We can not comprehend the market with mere suggestions but we can pin down our top technical and fundamental analysis which will served as good guide in generating our profits and also enable us to play safe.

I don't think you are advertising anything either but giving information, seeking answers and opinions, and by virtue of this as well, you are propagating information which is the beauty of the forum. What Bitcoin can and can't do are many, that's why we have altcoins trying to do better so that what it (Bitcoin) can't do, the alternatives can do it. So, it is not new and not about calling it Bitcoin or not, altcoins would have been able to do what the instant Bitcoin would want to do.

Well, the people and market sentiment and appreciation about a thing could be uncertain, it can't be predicted as such, it is not until it is developed and fully marketed that we can know the outcome. No one can ever say if the present Bitcoin can ever be for life, especially the decentralized nature which will always be the subject of controversy. If other similar projects with almost the same name are being developed, who knows what will eventually happen? But my concern is that some similar projects have been done before with Bitcoin still retaining what it is, my final advice in this regard is for us to be watchful of the situation, and if it is worth trying, why not invest in it? After all, many projects in which people make money started like that.

The talks about the security across blockchain is only undisputed when it comes to Bitcoin, other blockchains are being perceived not to be totally possessing' the features of a blockchain. As much as alternative chains present themselves to solve the challenges associated with scalability, concerns have been expressed over the true nature of their acclaimed decentralization. I totally agree with the point said about other blockchains not being truly decentralized.

Aren't you aware that there are lot of identical coins as Bitcoin but that doesn't equate the coins to Bitcoin as you have mentioned that speed is the only problem with Bitcoin and the same has been sorted in this new coin? are you aware that with your statement you are saying that this new coin is better than Bitcoin ? Man, just speed is not everything and there are coins like Litecoin which had lightening speed at the days when speed was the issue and even tried competing with Bitcoin but failed and people hardly remember Litecoin, Speed is just a part of it but not everything and there couldn't be any replica of Bitcoin with the same level of security and userbase.

Let’s start with the fact that Bitcoin wasn’t created to be the fastest mode of payment. If that was what Satoshi wanted to achieve, with such innovation we are enjoying from them, they could have done it. Bitcoin was created to give us direct access to your funds, privacy, security, etc. and being the first cryptocurrency to do that, it is almost impossible to compete with it. We’ve seen really faster blockchains, but the value difference between Bitcoin and those blockchains still differs in a way that tells that Bitcoin is more than just speed.