Instant Bitcoin

[franky1]

even instant isnt instant

when verifying and collating transactions even by the block template creator it takes portions of a second.
to then hash a block id is portions of a second
to then broadcast a hashed block to peers is portions of a second

lets just imagine it as 0.1second per portion. and for demo sake its 0.4seconds per block from unconfirmed tx to peer seeing confirmed in block

meaning each full block takes 0.4seconds

now imagine a nefarious miner just hashes EMPTY BLOCKS (a 0.1second task) and then after X blocks he then broadcasts all of his blocks to orphan and replace the genuine chain
now the nefarious miner can control the blockchain at 4x rate to genuine blockchain users

the nefarious user can go back 4 blocks and empty block them faster then the genuine blockchain can create one new filled block

as with exponential numbers

a nefarious miner can go back 12 blocks in less time then genuine users can fill 3 blocks
a nefarious miner can go back 200 blocks in less time then genuine users can fill 50 blocks

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[GreatArkansas]

This is an aged discussion about the scalability of Bitcoin. For me it is possible as we already have a lot of new cryptocurrencies that are extremely fast transactions and cheap transaction fees. But most of the common issues from them is decentralization, which Bitcoin has. Some projects discussion and challenge are the decentralization,  you manage to solve the scalability but the decentralization?

[SquirrelJulietGarden]

It is only easy on paper. When you start thinking about it, you'll start finding problem after problem.
For example when blocks are found "instantly" in your hypothetical blockchain, the whole decentralized network also has to be updated "instantly" which is not possible due to delays. You also have to find a way to solve the problem with competing blocks that are created "instantly" so that you can build the "chain" of blocks sequentially and not end up with a lot of stale blocks every second.
Not to mention that such a blockchain would grow too big and too quickly that makes running a full node impossible in a very short time without relying on a strong server. Which means end of decentralization.

With instant blocks, one after another, reorg will become very big problem.

I don't have problems with Bitcoin blockchain even its block time is 10 minutes if on chain transaction fee won't be too expensive for me. With my small money, I don't want to pay too much of it for transaction fee but it is what's going one with Bitcoin blockchain since 2023.

I hope Bitcoin developers will find technical solution to handle the expensive fee but I want security too so 10 minutes block time does not need to be changed to be smaller.

[moneystery]

it's not just you who see it but many parties see this as a problem and because of that they launched their own "bitcoin" which they claim is "the next bitcoin" which is fast, secure and more reliable than bitcoin. but what next? are they successful in pitching their ideas to more people and attracting people to their products? apparently not.

you can say bitcoin gold, bitcoin cash, bitcoin sv, litecoin, and many other coins that copy bitcoin and improve some parts of it, but people still have much more trust in bitcoin compared to these altcoins which proves how bitcoin is still trusted by more people because of its security and decentralization despite the fees which are sometimes quite high.

[Julien_Olynpic]

I don't think the main problem with Bitcoin is its slow payment speed. But it is certainly an important issue. However, it seems to me that this problem is greatly exaggerated. If someone is not satisfied with the low speed of payments in Bitcoin, then he can always use other cryptocurrencies. Why not use Ripple or Cardano or Polkadot? Yes, there are now a huge number of altcoins with high payment speeds. Another thing is that all these payments need to be recorded in the blockchain, and this leads to rapid littering of the blockchain. This is another problem that few people pay attention to. What to do if the blockchain grows too fast?

[Fundamentals Of]

In terms of speed, there are probably hundreds of altcoins that are faster than Bitcoin. But speed is not the point. The point is about decentralization and many other factors including the fact that Bitcoin is created by somebody unknown, that it is the first successful decentralized cryptocurrency, that it is the most used, accepted, and widely adopted. No one can beat Bitcoin in all of this combined.

Bitcoin Gold, Bitcoin Cash, Bitcoin 2.0, etc are not Bitcoin. They're altcoins. They never can replace the original.

[pinggoki]

I mean LTC is a copy of bitcoin sort of and they're not that valuable as bitcoin, even if there's more clones that will pop up out of nowhere with bitcoin, I think that we're still going to see that bitcoin will reign supreme, it's not just a matter of who's got more efficient solutions to the flaws that bitcoin's got, there's more to it like level of seniority and popularity, you can't really top those two especially the former and the only way that you can beat bitcoin in popularity is if your coin got more valuable than bitcoin and so far no one has ever dethroned bitcoin in that aspect yet despite everyone selling their own coin with their very own solutions.

[FinneysTrueVision]

The only Btc problem is speed. And it is solved. That btc copy is instant. Because i just don't understand why no one else sees it.

Every altcoin that launches claims to solve Bitcoin’s problems. Tezos launched their ICO when there was a lot of disagreement on Bitcoin over scaling. They claimed that their blockchain could solve these disputes through on-chain governance. That claim was debunked when infighting between their founders led to lawsuits that caused their launch to be delayed by over a year.

If somebody could actually solve Bitcoin’s problems they could easily submit their proposal to the community. Instead they make these claims with the expectation that people will give them millions of dollars for some new shitcoin, without any intention of improving Bitcoin.

[btcuser33]

https://i.ibb.co/vQR6WpL/kaspa-10bps-ezgif-com-video-to-gif-converter.gif

They claim that they have achieved the same speed as PoS. But this is PoW. This is some new technology someone needs to check it.
I personaly think that PoS is just fake. Only pow is the real thing and all pos networks will eventually be devalued.
Real coin must have halvings and maximum total supply. And miners.

Also big echanges do not list it. So something might be wrong here.

[jrrsparkles]

I don't want to advertise anything. But isn't it true that if instant version of btc is invented such protocol starts to beat bitcoin?
There is a new protocol that is identical to BTC. PoW, maximum supply cap, halvings. But it is instant. Real-time payments in the first layer. Practically, Bitcoin 2.0. I just don't understand. Am I the only one who sees it?
The only Btc problem is speed. And it is solved. That btc copy is instant. Because i just don't understand why no one else sees it.

If you are unaware of BTC copycats then go to coin tracking sites and see how many projects with Bitcoin names on it and the idea isn't new and you are free to fork the bitcoin and create the version which has all the features better that bitcoin but it will be completely decentralized like bitcoin that is the problem and you can't convince people to trust a forked coin is better than bitcoin.

[Solosanz]

They claim that they have achieved the same speed as PoS. But this is PoW. This is some new technology someone needs to check it.
I personaly think that PoS is just fake. Only pow is the real thing and all pos networks will eventually be devalued.
Real coin must have halvings and maximum total supply. And miners.

Also big echanges do not list it. So something might be wrong here.

Kaspa isn't safe as Bitcoin, cost and chance to attack the network is still possible https://www.crypto51.app/ and there are only 3 big pools in Kaspa, if foundrydigital and antpool are working together, their hashrate is exceed more than 50% among other pools https://miningpoolstats.stream/kaspa

Most people choose Bitcoin because it's the most safest coin, you can sleep well and no need to think if you might lose your coins.

[aioc]

I don't want to advertise anything. But isn't it true that if instant version of btc is invented such protocol starts to beat bitcoin?
There is a new protocol that is identical to BTC. PoW, maximum supply cap, halvings. But it is instant. Real-time payments in the first layer. Practically, Bitcoin 2.0. I just don't understand. Am I the only one who sees it?
The only Btc problem is speed. And it is solved. That btc copy is instant. Because i just don't understand why no one else sees it.

You're late in the news we already know the existence of these copycat Bitcoins that claim that they are better because they are fast but so many of these coins are centralized the developers of these coins increased the supply and then mined it first so they could become the whales when the community adopted it.

since Bitcoin is open-sourced they copied the source and created a tweak to try to beat Bitcoin, but there's only one decentralized coin in the market right now and that's Bitcoin.
Don't believe the hype these developers and their supporters are propagating that their version is much better and they are the next big thing

[batang_bitcoin]

You are describing the forks of Bitcoin and there were many of them, but thank goodness that they've been stopped a long time ago.
But still, some of them exist and trying to be relevant in this market. Don't believe with those forks and don't make yourself available to invest to any of them because all they think is Bitcoin is beatable. And in reality, they've been trying to conduct that as well for a very long time but none of them was able to do it to the real, actual and one and only Bitcoin.

[dlightag]

Litecoin is speed as much as that when it comes for a transaction and charge fees is very low. In other words Bitcoin is still the best and not comparing it to any other alt-coins in the cryptocurrency market industries.

[Fundamentals Of]

Litecoin is speed as much as that when it comes for a transaction and charge fees is very low. In other words Bitcoin is still the best and not comparing it to any other alt-coins in the cryptocurrency market industries.

I agree. If somebody has to find a way to use something else other than Bitcoin, Litecoin is a great choice. Why should we look for something else when an altcoin that has already been trusted by a lot of members in the crypto community is already available? Litecoin has been serving as a great alternative. It is one of the most widely used cryptocurrency, a nice alternative to use especially when the fees of Bitcoin are beyond tolerance and the confirmation time takes days.

Rather than using something like Bitcoin 2.0, I'd rather prefer Litecoin indeed.

[Adreman23]

I don't want to advertise anything. But isn't it true that if instant version of btc is invented such protocol starts to beat bitcoin?
There is a new protocol that is identical to BTC. PoW, maximum supply cap, halvings. But it is instant. Real-time payments in the first layer. Practically, Bitcoin 2.0. I just don't understand. Am I the only one who sees it?
The only Btc problem is speed. And it is solved. That btc copy is instant. Because i just don't understand why no one else sees it.

You seem to have a valid point. Speed is indeed a significant issue for bitcoin, but it is necessary for ensuring the security of a transaction by confirming it on the blockchain. If you have come across the bitcoin 2.0 you're mentioning, with a protocol similar to bitcoin's PoW but faster, could you please share it with us for a visit and verification of its legitimacy?  I'm aware of the Lightning Network, which is remarkably fast but operates as a layer 2 solution for bitcoin. You mentioned a first layer, so it's likely something different.

[Bureau]

You seem to have a valid point. Speed is indeed a significant issue for bitcoin, but it is necessary for ensuring the security of a transaction by confirming it on the blockchain. If you have come across the bitcoin 2.0 you're mentioning, with a protocol similar to bitcoin's PoW but faster, could you please share it with us for a visit and verification of its legitimacy?  I'm aware of the Lightning Network, which is remarkably fast but operates as a layer 2 solution for bitcoin. You mentioned a first layer, so it's likely something different.

Bitcoin is Bitcoin, you cannot replicate it, and if someone comes up with Bitcoin 2.0 it won't be Bitcoin. It will be another Litecoin or in other words an altcoin, Bitcoin already has a layer two solution which is known as Lightning Network. LN solves all the issues of Bitcoin but it is still not considered as Bitcoin and those who love it would use it. In the same manner, the BRC20 token is not considered Bitcoin even if it is using the main chain, so whatever the OP is talking about has been tried and Bitcoiners are not interested.

[andyou1234]

In my opinion, currently there is not a single coin that can match Bitcoin's achievements, but if you look at it in terms of transactions and low gas fees, I think Lite coin is the right choice, but its price and popularity are far less than Bitcoin. if we talk about Bitcoin alternatives, I think Ethereum and Binance are very appropriate choices, because these altcoins can be Bitcoin alternatives that have very convincing fundamentals and popularity in the crypto market.

[Belarge]

I mean LTC is a copy of bitcoin sort of and they're not that valuable as bitcoin, even if there's more clones that will pop up out of nowhere with bitcoin, I think that we're still going to see that bitcoin will reign supreme, it's not just a matter of who's got more efficient solutions to the flaws that bitcoin's got, there's more to it like level of seniority and popularity, you can't really top those two especially the former and the only way that you can beat bitcoin in popularity is if your coin got more valuable than bitcoin and so far no one has ever dethroned bitcoin in that aspect yet despite everyone selling their own coin with their very own solutions.

The market is open for everyone to invest and trade. Bitcoin is popular in the market, everyone knows about the project but not everyone have the ability or knowledge to invest in the project because they're afraid of the volatility of bitcoin. Bitcoin have no duplicate because it's more consider to be a stable coin in the market. We can not comprehend the market with mere suggestions but we can pin down our top technical and fundamental analysis which will served as good guide in generating our profits and also enable us to play safe.

[EarnOnVictor]

I don't want to advertise anything. But isn't it true that if instant version of btc is invented such protocol starts to beat bitcoin?
There is a new protocol that is identical to BTC. PoW, maximum supply cap, halvings. But it is instant. Real-time payments in the first layer. Practically, Bitcoin 2.0. I just don't understand. Am I the only one who sees it?
The only Btc problem is speed. And it is solved. That btc copy is instant. Because i just don't understand why no one else sees it.

I don't think you are advertising anything either but giving information, seeking answers and opinions, and by virtue of this as well, you are propagating information which is the beauty of the forum. What Bitcoin can and can't do are many, that's why we have altcoins trying to do better so that what it (Bitcoin) can't do, the alternatives can do it. So, it is not new and not about calling it Bitcoin or not, altcoins would have been able to do what the instant Bitcoin would want to do.

Well, the people and market sentiment and appreciation about a thing could be uncertain, it can't be predicted as such, it is not until it is developed and fully marketed that we can know the outcome. No one can ever say if the present Bitcoin can ever be for life, especially the decentralized nature which will always be the subject of controversy. If other similar projects with almost the same name are being developed, who knows what will eventually happen? But my concern is that some similar projects have been done before with Bitcoin still retaining what it is, my final advice in this regard is for us to be watchful of the situation, and if it is worth trying, why not invest in it? After all, many projects in which people make money started like that.