Bitcoin Forum

Update 4/2/2014:

After much deliberation our team has decided not to continue this project.
We'll put our support and energy in supporting and buying X11 coins as we believe this is the algorithm for 2014.

We wish Charlie, the team and the community all the best for LTC.

Best regards,

(no longer) the LTC to X11 hardfork team.


================================================================


We are the Litecoin X11 hardfork team.

We are working on hardforking LTC to X11 algorithm at block ~564,480.
This poll is to gather information about the support for this hardfork, as we can't do this without the community, pools, exchanges and shops.

Main topic:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=549572



http://picadump.com/ltc_x11/litecoin_x11.png



Please vote and/or give your opinion.

Man this x11 shit is overrated, it's just quarks 6 and qubitcoins 5 hashing functions copied and pasted together. Nothing new.

Would you suggest another algorithm for the Litecoin hardfork to make it ASIC resistant?

make your own fucking algo dipshit, stop copying other coins!

LTC copied the Scrypt algorithm from TeneBrix, so I don't see why we couldn't use X11 for the hardfork.

Please bitch, do it!

This is so funny. LTC is not about to hard fork. Get real jr member.

LTC can't be hard forked, can it?
I don't know. Who can explain more ?

Hardforking LTC is actually the easy part.

The hard part is to get a majority of the pools, exchanges, shops and users to use the new hardforked client.
We are now working on the hard part.

It's hard because no one want to change, and what's you doing is nothing new.

Also because what you are basically proposing is to make the blockchain less secure.

All so that botnet operators can continue to profit from it using hijacked commodity computers.

-MarkM-

I won't change client and won't support the hardfork. I don't want LTC to be ASIC resistant. LTC needs more hashpower to protect itself.

Botnets can both mine Scrypt and X11, that doesn't change.

And less secure? Since there are no ASICS for X11 available, there's no danger they will overthrow the network against the massive amount of GPU miners.

Yes. I think x11 is better.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=549602.0

ASIC miners are devoted to securing the blockchains that use the type of hashing their ASIC is built to mine.

Thus scrypt ASICs mean all scrypt coins can all be secured, up to whatever the limit is of how many chains can effectively be merged mined together.

So far the limit to how many can be merged has not been found. But admittedly hundreds might be too many to be practical.

Nonetheless most likely all scrypt coins worth bothering with can all easily be merged at once.

Only those that are incapable or unwilling to implement merged mining need suffer, all others stand to gain much security, which in turn should lead to much more value, at least once initial mining of coins slows down or stops or once enough years have passed to make even constant steady minting amount to only a small amount of inflation of the coin supply.

-MarkM-

Please look behind you. There's the door.

I'd like to kill thoes scrypt ASIC vendor.

Why? It makes no sense. The coins you have mined should go up in value as the blockchain becomes more secure.

So you should be happy that all the worthwhile scrypt coins can all become massively secure if you have been mining worthwhile scrypt coins.

Of course that assumes there are any worthwhile scrypt coins in the first place. Are there?

-MarkM-

How many Scrypt ASICs did you pre-order? ;)

None. If litecoin and DOGE continue to fragment the scrypt space instead of being merged mined together I do not expect scrypt to be worth risking.

If they do become mergable together though then I will order ASICs so as to mine the entire merged mined family of scrypt coins.

-MarkM-

gee markm you are really plugging this merge mining of late  ???

greed greed everywhere!
purely greed motivated!


YEAH COOL MAKE MY LITECOINS LESS SECURE, BY DROPPING HASHRATE YOU MAKE IT VULNERABLE TO 51% ATTACK
WE NEED ASIC's TO SECURE OUR WALLETS.

And the award for stupidest thread of the day goes to OP.

I come from China, English is poor, X11 can better conserve power if the emergence of ASIC, I think this is a disaster, there will be a large number of players GPU helplessness exit. LTC will become the plaything of a small number of professionals. Because the fear of ASIC's, I saw a large number of miners sell graphics mining machine.

Please remember when you are panicking about ASICS and their presumed effect on decentralization that in a very short time ASICs will be the price of GPUs, GPU's will be just a component on a SOC in your wearable computer, and everybody will have a bunch of ASICs in their basement or garage happily mining away on scrypt coins just like GPUs do today.

Don't panic. Be happy. Enjoy the nice weather. Take a deep breath. Changes are coming …

The use of malicious negative trust to suppress free speech brings discredit to the bitcoin community

A bunch of 4chan weenies with GPUs in their moms' basements or a bunch of serious businesses devoted to the securing of blockchains, hmm, gee, I wonder which I would rather have securing my billions for me?

-MarkM-

It is expected that if the high-speed ASIC appear, then a lot of graphics as well as the miners will bid farewell to LTC currency scrypt algorithms seek other currencies. The rest is just professional miners and ASIC manufacturers.

MarkM, my point is that ASICS will be as common and cheap at some point in the not too distant future as GPUs are now. In fact, they will probably be cheaper.

The issue of whom you would rather have securing your blockchain is tangental to my point.
However, I say 'the more the merrier'.

Use of malicious negative trust to suppress free speech discredits the bitcoin community

I have supported, and done, merged mining since it first became do-able. (By me; that is, ever since actually doing it became something I could actually accomplish.)
 
It has been obvious from the start that it is the only reasonable/feasible means of defending multiple blockchains, since defenders need to defend all targets but attackers only need attack one at a time. (Thus the more targets, the more multiples of attacker's computing power the defenders would need to defend that many targets.)

-MarkM-

That is bullshit. Block eruptors still work fine for merged mining GeistGeld and CoiLedCoin, while also of course also including all the other mergeable coins in my merge just in case I luck intoa block of one of the more-difficult coins.

I use larger ASIC units too, of course, but the block eruptors seldom luck into any of those whereas just the block eruptors alone can rake in GeistGeld and CoiLedCoin blocks.

My Saturn is still going fine too even after hmm what is it now, five months or so?

-MarkM-

Sure Mark, it's all bullshit, the rest is a scam.
You three are on every thread. Whats your agenda?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4b/Matrix_Agents.jpg
From left to right: Agents El Dude, MarkM, and BCX

I can't trust the future of ltc to a bunch of rookies who think they knew better.
NO.

If Litecoin was to change algo's, I'd rather it change to multiple algo's like Myriad coin.  That coin can easily be more secure then anything else since it embraces asic/gpu/cpu.

Well don't forget to snapshot the bitcoin blockchain too while you are at it and make a fork of that too using some new hashing method.

Why should only the litecoin users enjoy being able to spend their coins on a newfangled coin network as well as on the real network?

In fact lets spawn new snapshot forks regularly, a "social contract" like Protoshares, increasing the value of the real chains like was supposed to happen to protoshares.

(Do one's bitshares plus one's protoshares they were snapshotted from add up to more value than one's protoshares alone were once worth? I don't actually know yet...)

-MarkM-

Just leave it alone. Do not touch perfection.

+1000

Hahahahahahahahahaha

+10000000

asic is only going to help LTC.. not sure why you'd want to hurt the coin by changing up the algo

so many ppl supporting this.the result shows us what need to be done

GO!

Very nice!

+1

It looks promising.
I think we need to launch a poll on the Litecointalk.org forum too.

Why X11 and not e.g. scrypt-jane or scrypt-N?

Also I'd like to point out that imo Litecoin is not that great, it's launch was highly misleading and it's rather likely the devs and/or a group of miners had a GPU miner from the beginning.
(yada yada GPU/ASIC resistant, but don't tell anybody we consciously chose ridiculously low memory requirements [way lower than default scrypt] making GPU and ASIC easily possible)  ;)

I would support it because X11 results in less heat being produced during mining. Summer is on the way and cooling is a problem when it gets really hot. We might be in for a real scorcher this year like the year the tar started melting on the roads because it was so hot.

Same with scrypt-jane. But that's just a sign of a not very optimized miner imo.

We could use blake256, nice contender there. Once you really look at it, finding the hardest algo isn't worth while. Blake256 runs 3x faster on gpu, but x11 energy and heat savings can't be beat xD. Think it would be good either x11 or blake256

Bitcoin mining (SHA256) is running cooler on a GPU than scrypt too, and that has been optimized for years now.

It's too easy to say "it's not optimized" when a algorithm uses less energy on a GPU.
I believe there is enough room to tweak the code for X11 mining but don't expect more than 5% improvement.

I prefer an alternative similar to X11 but more advanced..
With mining limitations, anti botnet with captcha and geolocation check, anti multipool..

I look at the poll results and my first instinct is to be surprised, but then I think about it and realize, no it isn't.

Frankly, we're still only looking at a fringe amount of people or people who haven't invested much into Litecoin. A lot of the more serious people on Litecoin aren't necessarily on this sub-forum. Even if there is a "majority" here, it doesn't mean the infrastructure that surrounds Litecoin is going to follow.

The security of the blockchain is measured in the dollar cost to protect it not the network hashrate.

The arrival of ascis for scrypt doesn't necessarily make the the blockchain more secure. A malicious entity can now spend his dollars buying asics for an attack rather than buying gpus for an attack. If anything asics could temporarily weaken the blockchain if the first asic provider to hit big numbers sold a lot of them to a single entity. Hypothetical though and not important. What is important is the dollar cost concept.

I would rather see an algorithm that gpu miners can still mine with.

If it's an algorithm that benefits cpu miners, I can't see all the current GPU scrypt miners supporting it.

Why not make the algorithm a version of scrypt that uses more memory.

not all of the GPU miners, at least. 

if litecoin switches to x11, at least they can finally ditch all of those horrible, bottom-feeding Cuda miners.

forget asic hating; nvidia sells poisoned milk to school children, i shit you not

There's alot of really really stupid ideas in this subsection, this is close to the top

Let's set some shit straight:
ASIC's do not make a currency more or less secure, because ASIC's cost more than pocket change but not immence amount, small companies instead of individuals are going to be in charge of the network. Indirectly manufacturers of ASIC's also have influence.
Bitcoin is already a currency mined entirely by ASIC's. It has Upsides and Downsides.

Litecoin should be interesting, even if X11 is not that GPU resistant would mean that manufacturers will be discouraged from making ASICS for it, since Litecoin would just switch again. A GPU does have respectable amount of computing power, so if one was to design an algorithm for executing which GPU would be a perfect platform, gainst in performance achieved by ASIC's would be negligible, and thus the network could not be hijacked even if malicious entity would be willing to design their own chips (highly improbably)

Dude to all of the above X11 is a step in the right direction, thus i support this.

Take care  ::)

++1 Two thumbs up!

this idea is beyond dumb scrypt asics will only increase the price, if you change the algo you would ruin ltc............ price would drop under 5$

If you want to fork the coin to x11 for these reasons, you'll basically give the scrypt coin birthright away to doge.

the largest scrypt coins are on track to be secured by scrypt asics.  for litecoin to survive long term it needs massive asic support.  power hungry gpu mining litecoin is an obsolete activity.

Yes, of course, but I don't think LTC has any future. I'd rather see Doge hardfork to X11 because Doge is the future.

if doge is the future support hardfork of LTC to X11.

being the next biggest scrypt coin, doge will gain the support of the scrypt asics to strengthen its blockchain, and LTC-X11 will fail.  

No, ASICs will kill Doge. Doge is a coin based on community, a community of people that come, mine and tip other people. If the coin wasn't worth mining with GPUs anymore (and impossible with CPUs) Doge would die.
So it's important for doge to move to X11 as well.

ok we disagree.  

regarding the 'community', i'd bet less than 1% of the doge 'community' mines.  most people don't care to learn how to mine.

the currency generated by mining is not as important as the mining nodes which are responsible for the blockchain, and to pass along transactions.

look at the power consumption for 20mhash/sec of GPU, vs. the power consumption for 20mhash/sec of ASIC.  asics will be left on and mining long after GPU has been turned off.

i believe asics secure coins.

Well, there's where we depart...

While I can see Doge changing due to popular opinion, or even in worse case vocal loud mouths on the Internet, that doesn't really matter much because it's a coin for fun and giggles.

Litecoin is not. It is a coin where people invest or look as a plan B if Bitcoin's decentralized trustless system fails. Hardforking litecoin so that it can be ASIC resistant is opening a can of worms and making a mockery of the scene. So where's the decentralized trustless coin that an authority can't revoke? Can the next Litecoin fork blacklist addresses or force to register at some website too?

And I say this being a GPU miner and without having invested in Litecoin. So, if someone came up with ASICs and miners will robustly mine Litecoins, pushing forward transactions and securing the blockchain, then I just have to adapt to a situation where the greater good prevails and move my gpus elsewhere

So if a hard fork does happen, that means I effectively have double the coins. I sell once at Cryptsy on the regular Scrypt LTC, and then I sell my same address coins on the X11 LTC chain (probably hosted on some shit exhange). What's your plan to stop that from happening?

Questions aside, your either going to double the value of my LTC or half it. More then likely half it.
Make your own coin don't touch LTC.

The OP is not Litecoin dev, if you want to clone, then clone. Don't try to ack like you are Litecoin dev. You cannot do anything about Litecoin. If you are not Coblee, or Warren, or Pooler, please don't BS.

You don't need the pools or miners.

All you need to get to change are the Fiat exchanges.  Everyone else will be forced to follow.

Basically get BTC-E to change, and maybe the chinese exchanges, and you're set.

Everyone else will have no choice.

Yes, the whole point behind LTC was ASIC resistant.  Its time to move on once more.

Would be the best thing litecoin is dying because of Asic miner and will always farther down no action is taken, the big production companies have operated ogy Their machines are destroying the currency and currently Has 80% of the asci miner digging on this one thing and also ridiculous comes to an asci 100,000 Khash and if you put a company which Has 200 asci in stock functional and enabled on excavation explain you Because we are still falling, and with this it also leads down behind the bitcoin they need to monetize


Those who vote no and absolutely asic miner X11 brings Considerable lowering and exploitation of the hardware

asic is only going to help LTC.. not sure why you'd want to hurt the coin by changing up the algo

x11 is better ;D

ASIC is only going to help they owner to get more money in the first monthf after it's release..

imo changing the algo is good idea, and we need to do this each year or two...

ASIC killing decentralisation ideas..we need not mant MH/s, we neew work that is hard to be done..  many people invest into ASIC not to supporting of crypto, but only to get ROI multiple times..

PS Beeker, does changing some constants in Scrypt not help for ASIC resistance?

You do realize that x11 is no where near memory intensive as scrypt which makes asic design that much easier, then what, another fork?
At the moment people love x11 because the public miners are very much unoptimized which keeps their GPUs cool, but not for long.

I pretty much never post anything on here but because this is possibly the most retarded thing I've seen in a while, I felt compelled to.

The only possible reason that anyone would vote yes is because they are Litecoin hating trolls. Which is fair enough. However, if you actually voted yes and like/hold LTC, you should immediately delete all your wallet.dat files and burn your computer. You may as well, because it would destroy the price of LTC overnight and probably make anyone that has invested in (all) crypto-currencies lose faith instantly!

As many people have suggested on this thread, If you are determined to keep on mining with a gpu or cpu (or you're god damn botnet) then just mine vert, dark or whatever coin takes your fancy.

Wow, if people are actually thinking this is a good idea, then there is no hope left for humanity  ;D

I voted no, surprisingly  :P

Seems reasonable,  but you would certainly need to get the exchanges on board,  and show that the majority want it.

Maybe you should make an LTC X11 foundation ha ha.

Here's our response: https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=18166.0

Great response.

+1

+1
Leave litecoin alone you greedy scammers.
As for changing algo each time specialised ASIC will be created, it is pure BS scam idea.
I don't trust you, you can be easy bribed by some FPGA/ASIC holder and switch algo to the one which, he will be ready to mine with his equipment.

Good blurb. Also I believe ASICS themselves aren't the problem, its that they make building a farm 100x easier as they're plug and play compared to rigs. Merged Mining should become norm as they do indeed just secure the blockchain of other coins and you get some more coins xD

We understand, Litecoin is too big to hard fork, but please don't be naive and expect that ASICs will make your price rise, like it happened to BTC. BTC was the first, the coin from which everything else started, so ofc when ASICs happened it wasn't damaged too much.
But Scrypt was created to be ASIC resistant in the first place, AND it's just one of the followers. So why would big investors keep investing in hardware to help strengthen Scrypt when they can do the same more reliably for SHA256?
Everyone who's buying Scrypt ASICs now is doing it purely for profit reasons, to be the first ones to rape the coins with huge computing power. And they will lose, because when they will receive them the network difficulty will already be well beyond profitability, because the ASIC companies will be "testing them" for a long while before shipping:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2182nb/kncminers_ceo_sam_cole_dumping_bitcoins_worth/

ASIC market is one of the most fucked up businesses that I've ever seen. By preordering some of these, you are supporting one of the two models of businesses:

1. Selling non-existent stuff
2. Selling miners with several months of delay in delivery, when company is "testing" your miner

It's not about securing your wallets, but about making as much money as possible and throwing you some scraps at the end.
How your wallet could be secure if some Chinese chip/miners vendors can easily accumulate such enormous hashpower in one (or several) hand?
Especially I mean recently invented products, that most of the people couldn't obtain.
Of course, there are GPU farms, but they are using the same hardware as anyone can get and run.
Does it sound better than dispersed, world-wide hashrate? Maybe X11 is not perfect, maybe we could find another efficient algo.
Also, don't forget about DDR6 memory that is incoming.

Finally: do you, LTC holders, think that people would invest more $ in your coin because of the higher hashrate?
1. LTC is not the only scrypt coin, like BTC was only one serious SHA-256 coin 2-3 years ago. ASIC farms bouncing on multipools most profitable ports won't be devoted to secure LTC blockchain.
2. Common altcoin trader would't give a fuck if he will see massive dump of coin (ROI is most important part of the mining business, especially that ASIC miner in short period of time could become useless and there will be no resell possible).

I would support X11 because of it's energu efficiency

A fork pretty much means the end of the crypto world as everyone would loose trust and no new money would come into crypto. I certainly would sell all my Bitcoins and Dogecoins as a they will be next in line. So far about 400 coins have copied litecoin, so something must be right. Miners seem to forget that someone has to buy the coins they want to sell. Litecoin is what it is if someone is not happy there are a lot choices available in this free world. 

Litecoin now stands on the 2nd place behind Bitcoin, it is very difficult to surpass Bitcoin even ASIC comes.
ASIC will make Litecoin lose more supports, and in the end only people with ASIC will mine this coin.
Look at current situation, coins such as Darkcoin, etc are taking the place of Litecoin if this problem is not solved.
Litecoin has long been following Bitcoin, and Bitcoin is kind of protecting Litecoin, because whatever problem happens will happen in Bitcoin first.
However, this time will be different.
Bitcoin do not need to be changed after ASIC comes doesn't mean Litecoin can follow it.
If Litecoin do not make a change, the 2nd place will be largely questioned.

I see people saying: "Litecoin will gain value after ASIC comes, because Bitcoin gain value".
The reason Bitcoin gain value is because it is the No.1. All altcoin prices are basically based on it.
How about Litecoin? I don't think so.

dumb idea.. X11 is a rip off of Quark's algo with a couple more *pointless algo's tacked on just to say it's different.
and it also would not help anything either.. X11 is asic vulnerable and insecure and a rip off Quark / Secure coin etc
What you should have asked is should it be changed to Quark's algo (which was made way before the copy cat scammers came along)

the fact you asked shows me you have enjoyed been fed X11 propaganda lol
ease up on the Purple Kooliad and when they tell you to put on the Nike's to get ready for a space journey to the home world on Hale bop.. just say no and run ;)
and no i don't expect 98% of you to get what i said either.. Reddiots are too busy tapping and swiping in class these days to learn much :(
#everythingwedoisamazing1111

Here is a shocker:

I mine x11 because its less heat, less electricity and better for the environment....

Why would I keep going with scrypt when there is something better? I don't care where it was ripped quark etc..it has tangible benefits and can achieve the same results as scrypt with less electricity, heat etc...

Sure its not ASIC proof and again there is no such thing so why harp on about it?

I'm with Charlie on this...

These guys were actually coding back when more than half of this forum was still wearing diapers

SHA-512 quantum time travel coin coming with special Doge/Horse coin time travelling ability (we will be hashing Bitcoin Blocks with SHA-512 as an extra "seal" to process the minty goodness   :D

quark is a clone of sif coin.

Indeed it was, my feeling is if you can get the largest exchanges on board a fork is the way to go.

But this would need to follow a campaign to get the real miner out , otherwise that could hurt LTC confidence post fork as the people that have the offical miner will benifit.

I think looking at the numbers on the votes there that a fork could be successful if enough people contacted the larger exchanges,  I mean, may as well do it sooner than later right ?

Now Litecoin is just a bitcoin clone with different ASICs.

We feel the 65% in the poll is a pretty convincing number for us to continue on our project.

The original developers vote against but Litecoin is not owned by them.
Litecoin is owned by the community.

The developers try to spread FUD, we expected this.
Phase 2 of project "LTC 2 X11" will start in 3 weeks from now.
We will contact pool operators of major pools and exchanges to make the transition as smooth as possible.

If pools and or exchanges won't follow us, we understand we can't finish our project. We need their support for this to succeed.
I expect they will be contacted by Coblee too, so we really need to convince them.

Thanks for your support so far!

I'd support an algorithm that gives less power usage than X11

What exactly would prevent the new algo from having an ASIC developed for it? Surely it's impractical to fork every time ASICs come on to the scene?

I'm all for forking, and people starting projects to work on but I think keeping the name will cause confusion and hurt Litecoin rather than help it.

Litecoin will keep it's name. After the hardfork, Litecoin still is Litecoin, nothing changes except for the algorithm.
Some people may stay on the old fork by not updating their client but it will die soon as no exchange or pool will except it.

This x11 bullshit is such a fail. Dev just wants to make money on this so fuck off we already have enough coins. This coin will get many haters and won't get far anyway and i'm not even holding Litecoin.

This x11 is such a win. Original Litecoin Devs just wants to make money of their ASIC investment. This coin will show everyone that the power is in the hand of community and not corporations.

Everyone that is against it is obviously an ASIC investor.

THE ACTUAL LITECOINS DEVS MADE A STATEMENT THEY DONT WANT THIS.PISSOFF WITH YOUR BULLSHIT POLL AND MAKE YOUR OWN COIN.IF U CARRYING ON WITH THIS I HOPE THERE IS A LEGAL AVENUE THEY CAN TAKE TO SORT THIS OUT. >:(NO ONE BELIVES YOUR BULLSHIT VOTING POLL

i am not and investor or have any pre-orders.i just have alot of litecoin.what am i suppose to do when they kill it.this is just fuking bullshit.

Either you are lying or you don't get it.

ASIC scrypt mining is 14 times more effective than GPU mining in term of investment.
Before, you invested 100, you get 200 after a time.
Now you invest 100, you get 2800 during the same time.

Your Litecoins are going to be divided by at least 10 and possibly much more as ASIC will increase performance.

You do understand how polls work on this forum, correct?

There are users here with literally hundreds of accounts. That's about as unscientific as it gets in regards to polling.

You're kidding, surely. 65% of the very few people who don't think the thread is/was a premature April Fool's joke not worth bothering to read think it is a good idea?

I would not expect more folk who think it is a bad idea to even bother to open the thread, not expecting anyone but idiots to vote yes and not realising this forum is so full of idiots.

I mean everyone knows there are vast numbers of idiots here but might still have hope that it just looks that way due to the idiots being the noisiest bunch.

(Which maybe this poll actually helps to show...)

-MarkM- (I haven't even bothered to vote as it is such an absurd idea, why even bother?)

EDIT: I cannot even see the results so until I read the post I am responding to I never imagined anyone but a very few idiots would have voted yes, so saw no need to bother voting. If in fact idiots are in fact the ones voting then again why bother since they evidently plan to flood out all other opinions anyway. As others have said just do it, the real vote will be in gigahashes (or maybe only kilohashes if the idiots aren't ready to put their hashes where their forum-ranting is.)

Talking about it like it's happening, lol!

No large pools will follow you.

Any algorithm can have an ASIC built for it, so you buy GPU miners what, a year? Or better yet, you will kill Litecoin, the backbone of GPU mining right now. Good job, assholes!

Exactly, i find it quite funny.

On another note, I've polled my friends, and 65% percent of them agree, I should be in charge of Amazon. Im sure Jeff wont mind

Sounds like GPU farm owners are a little upset that ASICS are coming. Thats all I get from this thread. I don't understand why you guys don't just buy a whole bunch of asics with all those bitcoins you mined.

Because they spent it all on hookers and cocaine.

because asic can't mine other algo lol

All the hardcore oldschool crypto people clamoring for a hard fork should support Darkcoin, it's more anonymous than BTC/LTC and uses X11, so half the power usage and maybe I'd stop popping cards like it's the 4th of July (damn you, Gigabyte!) :)

Get it through your head people, just because the current miners are unoptimized doesn't mean the algo somehow magically is 'low power' just means the hardware is not utilized fully.

But hashing power is relative, so if everyone's miners are unoptimized, then the net result is lower power consumption.

But then power consumption would be relative too...

523 yes

235 no

30 whatever or other.

the problem is that someone said, there are small groups with the optimized version, that's not fair at all

You should also explain to kids that voted for hardfork, that investors will lose trust in LTC, LTC will lose value, and mining wont be profitable at all, for anyone, and all those coins they mined over years will be worth nothing... so what ur really doing is trying to destroy LTC, simple as that. If you have problem with ASICs, make your own coin and do whatever you want with it, and leave LTC to DEV team who proved themselfs and have community support.

Who are you? What have you done for LTC so far anyways?

Your ANN post looks like every other scam coin post, no detailed explanation, no plans, no nothing. And bunch of retarded kids following "hey, my GPU still good!!! YAY!!!", clueless how much harm you will do.
 

^ Welcome to the world of Decentralized Open Source currencies... 

Who said that? I'm interested... in this thread?!?

This topic is still an exploration phase to find out how much support there is for a LTC to X11 hardfork.

Scam? We don't accept money or LTC, there's no IPO and we cannot be bribed.
Our team is heavily invested in LTC and we want to secure the future of our investment, either by making progress for LTC or by encouriging the original developers to do so.

This is not a hostile takeover, without community support this will not happen.
But we want to make clear to the current developers that LTC is an open source cryptocurrency. They may hold a nice domainname or github, they don't own the blockchain.

I just have one question for you. What technical research have you done on the algos used in x11? Did you miss the FACT that each and every one of them is designed to be ASIC friendly as that's one of the requirements to be SHA3 candidate? Or you're looking to "secure" LTC short term and hardfork each time ASIC manufacturers deem it profitable to build one?

That sounds like a very good plan. They should actually make it possible to change the algos without a hard fork (of course in a decentralized manner though).

Change of PoW requires a hardfork and it is NOT backwards compatible making the whole operation very risky.

You hit the nail.

By changing the algorithm on a regular base no ASIC company will invest in creating an ASIC for it.

And you do not see the ramifications? To force people to upgrade or they risk losing their coins by sending on the different chain?
I'm all anti-asic and everything but not at this cost. I suggest to take a look at different options if you're really serious about forking LTC with a new PoW, x11 is really a bad candidate and another hardfork will be imminent very soon.

If it was any other month old coin, nobody would care or even notice in the long run, but this is LTC a well established coin with many outdated forgotten nodes.

spam.. unless you are going to join the hard fork?

You keep talking about your team. Who is in that team? Who are you? We know LTC developers and creator, and we trust them. They are also heavily involved in LTC, and not only by investing, also by spending time developing and improving LTC, and logic tells you they will do what is best for LTC. If ASICs are less harmfull than hardfork, so be it. Anyone can buy them and support network. And when you talk about investment, you do realise that what you are doing can (and most likely will) jeopardize it?

There is thousands of people who invested in LTC and are clueless what mining is nor they care, really. I bet they dont hang around forums, so i would say most of them cant vote and yet we can count them as part of community. How would they vote?

Wow, I am amazed there are so many who voted "no".

My impression on seeing the thread title was the notion was so obviously utterly inanely stupid that it was a total non-starter, thus that only people who didn't think it was utterly silly would even bother to open the thread except for LOLs. (Which, as I saw the thread keep somehow popping back up instead fading into the oblivion of pages two and up of topics, I eventually did myself.)

I am surprised by how many people seeing such a stupid topic keep coming up actually bothered to look at it for the LOLs, as a lot of folk don't have all day every day to haunt such a silly forum as this one let alone read the silliest idiotic threads found herein.

-MarkM-

EDIT: Users Online:    5913

And that just at this one moment in time. Seems like hardly anyone voted yet even of those online right now this moment.

What I'd like to know is how are you going to do it?  There are 1,500 KncMiner orders left.  Approximately $15,000,000.  If you nabbed all of those and then kept all of the GPU's on the market you could find.  And bought up all the old gridseeds.  Then ordered half of another vendors hardware ... so maybe a 2,000,000 litecoins to take over?

I hope you know a pod of whales ... or an ocean of them.  Pus BCX?

And every day the difficulty of doing so is greater.

I mean - without destroying and re-creating litecoin seeing as the official devs aren't on board.  Anything else is just going to be an alternate crypto.

So you actually intend to fork the coin to implement a new algorithm every time ASICs catch up? This is not just a scam, this is scam to the power of ten :D

P.S. OMG I cannot believe there are people so naive to fall into this

How is it a scam?

While the LTC developers do not own the coin, neither do you. They do however have about 100% more credibility than you. Along with the full support of the community. Nothing will come of this hardfork.

Do you actually believe that guy? If you believe that a coin can be succesfully forked with a new algo every some months without creating a big mess (and basically destroying it) then you are beyond help bro!

I wonder, how many of those votes are in fact litecoin supporters, miners, community, and how many just haters, happy to see someone trying to destroy it.

X11 sound like OS X and look like mac - apple.

copy darkcoin?

Yes but nevertheless the reason this matters is because it does matter politically from a community point of view, it is important LTC like many crypto have long prime distribution times, and thus this mining segment matters a lot for both confidence and investment to a degree.

Otherwise of course,  what justified the price ? 

So these things do matter obviously.

LTC is much less price manipulated than BTC, less centralized,  but many might see risks in that centralization due to of course the long distribution time and ASICs.

If no action is taken and the price moves lower, will this create pressure for a hard fork ? 

Thats a good question .

IDK if this has been said yet but,

Since there are so many preorders for scrypt asics, with KNC selling $2 million worth or so, there's a lot of money on the line. How do you think people would react if LTC, main scrypt coin, suddenly changed algo's? Just some speculation, would like some feedback.

Basically Bitcoin started centralized and stayed that way, partly due to no fault of its own.

The market expects Bitcoin the be centralized,  and its only savoir is corporate integrated investment,  ( very unlikely savior)

But even if LTC had a gpu miner very early it makes it about on par with the x11 miner now , everyone knows its out there, the market is more educated.

This means LTC has much more of a community relevancy so this poll does matter.

They would learn not to build filthy ASICs for glorious LTC, the hard way. Who would make an ASIC for x11 after the hard fork when they know full well it is very likely the algo will change.

Would i support changing the second most valuable coins' algo so then asics are made for x11?

Most prolly if i chased every new alt coin algo cause i thought it was going to make me more profit all while selling it as asic proof (which in my opinion should come with a disclaimer saying asic proof for a whiles yet) yer i prolly would!

But i don't because i'm not stupid and with lack of common sense so thats a big no for me!

Fact is ltc tried to be asic proof but got big, their dev team are not financial in the beginning and never thought about motivations to make asic.
they think its undesirable to have asics for it in the sense that it goes against what satoshi created bitcoin for but thats just the thing he created it to be for the masses
and freedom to chose gives us the freedom to make asic no one should be surprised and you can only run for so long..and how many people are you going to inflict damage
 on in the long run by running vs embracing yet another inevitable change..

What I'm saying is that the community would "fork" as well with people trying to stick to script, and people going for other algos. Lets just see I suppose.

The ramifications to changing such a huge coinbases' algo could be catastrophic and highly confusing
if i was a bitcoin fanboy and wanted to see ltc die this is what i would be trying to achieve right now..changing ltc algo by way of a vote
because thats all it will do

much evidence. very shock. so greed. slight confusion  == much catastrophe. This has happened many times before, wow precedent, much sure.

This is the most pointlessly arrogant and destructive endeavor I have seen in cryptocurrency, yet. You know this worthless fork has no chance of success without the Litecoin name and resulting market confusion. If you want to make yet another Litecoin fork, go for it and call it something else. This project is asinine and I hope nobody supports this B.S.

Error: fallacy detected: argumentum ad nauseam

put your time and effort into getting LTC bigger and more mainstream rather than wasting time to make it ASIC resistant for a bit longer.  Dont fight ASICs, just focus on getting LTC to be THE currency.

LTC has been around to long to really fork like this just to avoid asic..When one day it will get asic anyhow for whatever algo it has.

My opinion is if you start changing it then you need to continue to change it and that like the devs have stated is not a good idea because so many people will be on the wrong forks sending their coins from exchanges to their wallets that are not on the right fork.

I will try to elaborate.
Because ltc has been around so long and so many trust it because it does not change and even the people who don't think that way..maybe just people who don't even follow its news but trade it speculatively so
what if they see the price of ltc go up and its in the news and they want to sell what they had stashed and they send funds from an old ltc wallet to an address on the exchange but because they are on a different fork those funds actually go to an address on another fork and not the exchange thus losing them all forever..this is not something you do lightly it has everything to do with peoples money and time put in to speculate mine or hoard whatever it is a dangerous notion to be playing with such a well established coin with wallets they have stashed in safes or whatever..they only have to update the wrong client and send to an exchange and lost forver its too damn big of a market cap to be facilitating gpu miners wishes to remain relevant on scrypt hashing unfortunately

You don't have to agree with the ltc team but they have proven time and time again that they are #2 for a reason and have put in the hard work for all the scrypt coins you see today they have even contributed to helping bitcoin fixes so in my eyes they have earn't their stripes and i trust them to get advice on this problem they are faced with right now

Litecoin is made as asic resistant and it should be asic resistant.

ASIC resitant yes, ASIC proof no. We all knew ASICs will come one day.

Instead of just copying what quark and other coins have done, I think there should be long term strategic change in the hashing mechanism to make it truly ASIC and bot-net resistant.

We can't just keep hardforking Litecoin again in the future when people start building ASICS for X11.

The problem is, there is none..

what did quark "just" copy, if there is copying involved it would be better to say that it got copied tons of times? and by other coins you mean litecoin too right?

Hardforking in such a large scale to a new algo could cause instability and distrust .
It can be quite destructive for ltc.

It will be quite a while before someone figures out a ASIC for X11 or any multi-algo. ASIC's also aren't good with high memory constraint and multi-algos at the moment. ASIC seem to be more efficient with low memory and single algos.

People copy ideas from everybody eventually, it's improving on the idea that is important, ie. cars, etc.....

Evolution and adaptation is important in everything in life, same with cryptos.

I fully back the idea of the hard fork.

The problem is every algorithm in X11 are able to create by ASIC since day one, and it is not high memory constraint like Scrypt.
Here is my thread : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=540160.0

That fact was echoed by me and many other people including the LTC devs, they just don't care.

In reality, everything can be eventually ASIC mined eventually. But I have not heard anyone taking anything with more than one algo in an ASIC project, I could be wrong, but I'm human. I meant by high memory constraints,  I meant higher than what Scrypt requires.

it's simply a question of STAYING REAL or SELLING OUT

I think they just choose to ignore.

Just teach those ASIC-lovers a lesson by dumping all your litecoins to buy X11 coins and go mine an X11 coin...

By dumping their stupid old ASIC-prone litecoin you'll drive its price way down, right, since you have such a massive stake in litecoin?

If you don't have a massive stake in litecoin but do in GPUs, maybe an X11 coin is right for you but litecoin isn't it.

Also if X11 is the new king of coins, you'll make so much riches from whatever X11 coin you all pick, or the entire family of merged mined X11 coins, that you will be able to build your own FABs and flood the world with cheap free open source ASICs, so that ASIC is as easy for anyone to get as GPU.

You can even give them away in cereal boxes!

No one can monopolise ASICs once you make open source ones! The problem is the stupid "intellectual property" crap around FABs, not ASIC in principle per se.

-MarkM-

We need this hardfork! No ASICS for litecoin! No centraliced mining!

Lead the way, oh supreme leader, right to the jaws of ASIC, then we'll just hardfork it again right, best idea ever!

Just that the x11 ASIC wont be with x10 boost like scrypt, it will be x1000 and the more expensive ones probably within couple of TH.

I doubt he understands cons and pros of ASICs and hardfork, and what damage hardfork might bring to LTC.

https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=18166.0

You forgot to link Coblee's & friends ASIC mining farm :

https://ecent.charityminingpools.com/index.php?page=statistics&action=pool

1  258208 KH/S

Now that's an argument for them to keep scrypt.

Yup, that's me. Looking forward to my KnCMiner Titans :)


https://ecent.charityminingpools.com/index.php?page=statistics&action=pool

http://picadump.com/pictures/bitcoin/asic.png




http://picadump.com/pictures/bitcoin/chn.png




http://picadump.com/pictures/bitcoin/blitz.png

Democracy on Litecointalk.org? Lock the topic when unwanted voices are heard:

https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=18166.135

Wow, can we see pics of your mining warehouse?...  :P