Bitcoin Forum

Here is a map of the international waters (deep blue).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/International_waters.svg

Can anyone recommend me the ideal place to build the bitcoin island?

My choice would be the Saya de Malha Bank, but I am open to other ideas.  ;D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saya_de_Malha_Bank

Sounds like a good place since it's relatively shallow and stuff. But can we just take the territory of a former micro nation? :D

The problem is that none of the so called micro nations are located in the international waters. All of them are located well inside the EEZ of some other country. So there is a risk of invasion from the respective nation.

I am interested in seeing the answers.

I read the wiki again, and no micronation was ever established there. There however was plans on doing so.

great plan to create a new nation for all the bitcoiner :)
imagine an island full of bitcoiner everything can buy with crypto
what a paradise :D

And, every morning we can greet one another with "Satoshimon" and in the evening "Nakamotomon". The only mode of transport would be...wait for it...train. All communications between fellow bitcoiners would be via the community forum.

we can order bikes or scooter from the outside world via trusted escrow
or make it a business and pay via BTC :D
wish it would be come true  ;D

Where? There are plenty of micronations existing right now. And many more were destroyed by the ZOG.

The most notable projects were:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Minerva#Republic_of_Minerva

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Atlantis

At the Saya de Malha bank: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saya_de_Malha_Bank#Artificial_island_project

Message the bloke who owns 'Sealand'

http://www.sealandgov.org/

That is an interesting proposal ,but as far as i read about this  island is that Mauritius does already claim the entire area.

The floating island; the one they showed in 'Life of Pi'

Yeah, but fuck Mauritius. They don't have military enough to do something about it.

If you have enough budget you can just bought some small islands and declare sovereignty. Or just conquer small island nation. With 1 billion usd I guess more than enough to have small micronation and strong enough military to protect from invaders.

If all bitcoin holders would fund this project this could be possible.

I wanna be the richest
Like no one ever was
To hoard them is my real test
To hack them is my cause

I will travel cross Bit Island
Scamming far and wide
Teach Bitcoiners to understand
The malice that's inside

Bi-itcoin (Gotta hoard 'em all), it's you or me
I know it's my destiny
there's no real friend
In a world I must defend

Bi-itcoin (Gotta hoard 'em all), a heart so cruel
Our bootstraps will pull us through
You scam me, and I'll scam you
Bi-itcoin

Sealand is cold as hell. I wouldn't like to leave there.

The area is outside Mauritius' Exclusive Economic Zone. But they are claiming it. Who cares about them?

Sealand is an island ? :O

How about an underwater city?
Is that not more feasible?

You know, like the one in bioshock?

Haha, guys wake up :)
kind of money needed to do this would be almost higher than bitcoin market... even if you would own that many BTC selling them off to buy this dream would crash bitcoin price instantly

That's unrealistic. Building an island is at least possible. Even though it would cost extremely much.

How would u protect your island

With a few hundred BTC funding, our armed forces will be better equipped than that of the Mauritius.

well atleast you have your own island somewhere even if the BTC drop to 50$ :D

The american's will launch "merciful angel" against BTC island.. We will need armies and probably nukes... Pretty terrible you need these things to prevent being wipped off the map.

Nope... as long as Obama is the prez. we won't have much to worry about.

:S  He slaughters humans by the thousands with drones..  He would launch them and could probably just say "they were bitcoiners" and get away with it and probably get another nobel prize...

great idea, imagine if we found oil there :D

Welcome to Bitcoin island:
We found oil, diamonds, gold, salmon, buffalo, bananas, and pineapples.  :D 

Antarctica best option

It might be cheaper to just purchase a small nation in Africa...

Pay off the dictator and take over?
Will the UN allow that?  :D

Nope. To fucking cool.

They might condemn it, however as long as we don't start a genocide they won't even consider an intervention (they might not intervene anyway, I mean for example, Rwanda).

Now what about the animals and etc that live there.  You will destroy there habitat just just to get away from your own governements.

I think it would be very important to preserve the nature and live side by side with it.
There's no reason why we cannot co-exist!

We seek peaceful co-existence.
^^^
From an old movie, but which one?
Star Trek: Next Gen


...preserve the nature
A small group of people can sometimes do no damage.
Any large group is going to have at least several individuals who mess up the land.

Someone already tried that in Somalia. Not that simple.

Just move in and conquer those small islands. Pacify the population if there is any. With enough btc this is like walk in the park.

Just stop this OK. You can't just move in and invade smaller nations. Only the US and its allies are permitted to do so.

Pacify the population
The USA was "invaded" years ago and we have been pacified.
Maybe Bitcoin holders should re-take America?

http://www.prosebeforehos.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/invade-the-usa.png

No xkcd references yet? srsly?

http://xkcd.com/1110/

The UN will not allow that. We should build an artificial island if we really want to live in an independent Bitcoin-based nation.

Yeah, but we'll be a small group of people! ;)

I'm up for it, I think the best place would be a remote island in pacific ocean or one of the Australian islands.

I'm seriously considering such a proposal however we need to form a syndicate as none of us has enough to do it by themself. We will have to figure out land allocations and things like food supply and what sort of commerce we can export to create an economy.

Its doable but needs a lot of serious hard work and commitment

The problem with those islands is that some country already claims them. That's why we should build an island.
Sure, we could declare a nation on an island someone already claims, however, unless we are self sufficient there we'll be in big trouble then (if we actually make a serious attempt on liberation).

The official currency of Antarctica is now Bitcoin.

Where did you get that from? As far as I know there's no official currency of Antarctica, since none owns it.

Antarctica is destined to be the greatest empire in history. Although the gods will probably sink it, they're giant @#$holes you know.

Antarctica is uninhabited. And it should remain so.

What are you talking about? Are you a penguin or just high?
Antarctica is way to cold for anyone to permanently settle there. There's no way for farming or having animals. The only food you can get is fish and penguin, so you'll die from lack of nutrients.

Antarctica will yield to technology.

Lets stop discussing about Antarctica here. It is a closed chapter. Period.

Just as cool this idea is, wouldn't it be easier to just buy an island in the Caribbean or something and build our civilization there?
We will not be recognized by the UN anyway so why make it so complicated?
And I mean, if we buy the island we know that the island is atleast ours. If we just occupy it we would just be considered a bunch of uneducated brats. However, if we buy it and actually have some kind of organization we could get some legitimization.

Watch and learn https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8HrvNMcgrQ
 ;D ;D ;D

All you need is nuclear reactor ... and you wont have problem with cooling your mining rigs :D

All we need is to bribe some countries that has small islands and declare it independent. After we would seek a mutual defense treaty with powerful countries for protection.

i already posted that some island here in philippines is gor sale some of the owner are local ita (aitas) and its on the north part of the country facing pacific ocean
and good for surfing also :D but the problem is foreign people couldnt buy a property here  :-\ but i swear that is a very beautiful island

this is true actually, if we embrace nuclear energy even nuclear fusion, living in Antarctica will be a reality as we can generate unlimited extremely low cost energy for heat.

If we have nuclear energy or geothermal energy we can plant crops and raise livestocks underground and build our cities underground. Our cities would be resistant from any global calamities and nuclear warfare. There is a big part in Antarctica  that has no claimant maybe claim that part.

Marie Byrd Land
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Byrd_Land

That's a crazy idea.

Leave the Aeta alone. Also, if the island is legally a part of Philippines, it is of no use. We won't be able to establish our sovereignty.

yeah but maybe we can build an exclusive resort in there :D (just suggesting) for all the bitcoiner around the world :)

That is actually also my idea... you can buy beach land in brasil for unbelivably small prices outside of main turist destinations of course... Lets do fundraising and build bitcoin resort. Or Bitcoin tower... seems more feasible to me than creating new country and declaring sovereignty

No jody we are not only creating an exclusive resort. But our own country, a bitcoin country that we can call home, we can call ours, not own or ruled by any governments.

is it possible to find an island which is not yet taken by some country?

If it is not, create one on international waters.

wow that is pretty tough we need a million BTC to make it possible plus i think there is a lot of odds that we are all going to face  :-[ but i really hope that we can make it tho

We need btc to reach a million or We have 1 million members with 1 btc each. We don't do it because it easy we do it because it is hard.  :)

No. Even small rocks which remain submerged during the high-tide are claimed by UN members. That's why we are planning to build an artificial island on the international waters.

One small underground earthquake and we are all dead.
I'll pass on that one.

Do have experienced on any earthquake yet? It depends how you build your underground city.

I've been in at least 3 small earthquakes, but never a bigger one.
If the underground city lasts over 10 years, I will probably drop in to visit.  :)

No one can predict earthquakes or tsunamis. That's why building an underground city is not a very bright idea.

This: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-CFz9kYBJI
If we all watch that series we might get inspired on how we should do.
And otherwise you'll just get entertained, because the series is quite amusing.

I just want to remind you that at least we can classify the regions based on seismic risk. However, I am definitely opposing any plans for an underground city. Extremely expensive, and pretty much unrealistic with current technology (considering the depth of international waters).

OK... now let's move forward and finalize the location for our artificial island.

My choice is Saya de Malha. Any objections?

i like the fact that it has an underwater bank

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWNPP8di9-g

I second that. The best location in the international waters.

Thank you. May be now it is the time to calculate the amount of funding required to build an artificial island there. I am planning for a 10 sq.km island. Any objections for that?

that size is ok however before building our own little nation what would be the source of income there? i bet fishing would be the 1st and how about the poultry? are we able to build a farm there?

I suppose you better figure out how many people are really willing to live in the island first

Otherwise you may waste your funding to build a large island with almost no people there

The Bermuda Triangle.

Finance will be the main source of income. We welcome all the Bitcoin exchanges and Bitcoin payment processors to move to the Saya de Malha artificial island, to escape from the tyranny and persecution from the corrupt governments. The tax will be nominal. And one more thing, cannabis will be legal.  ;D

There are international waters in the mediterranean sea too. This map is not really accurate.

shut up and build that nation now ;D
would love to plant some kush in there
reserve 2 hectares for me pls ;D

i am busy in building my house so no time to build bitcoins :P

Can we claim this new Island?

http://news.yahoo.com/baby-volcanic-island-eats-older-neighbor-130548983.html

Hmm.. you want 2 ha. out of a 1,000 ha. island? Sorry mate. We don't have that much land available. I can give you 1,000 square meters max (0.1 ha.)


No. We can't claim that. Legally, it is a part of Japan.

bitcoin mining is a big industry i've heard     ;)

Beware:
Crazy Bitcoin Nerds take over island that eats other islands!
This one will draw plenty of negative attention.

if you build it, they will come!

What we'll have to do is either to sink a lot of concrete blocks into the waters until we have an island to build from, or build some kind of rig to place the nation on. Both of these options will be quite expensive, but I think it would be cheaper to start with the concrete to have some solid ground.

not really a good idea, what if the water level rises? :D

isn't there somewhere a uninhabited island we could settle on? :D

That's the plan!


Yes... bitcoin mining will be important.


A 10 sq.km island can't be built on rigs. We need concrete pillars and sand / rock.

interesting :D

http://mentalfloss.com/article/30692/10-uninhabited-islands-and-why-nobody-lives-them

You could build parts of it on rigs, however that would quickly become extremely expensive.
But we'll need extremely much concrete and rocks :D
Maybe we could get some concrete companies sponsor this project?

that's a damn good idea :D

we can create a new society, with freedom, no taxes, a utopia!

utopia where we build with donations and help each other and only use cryptocurrencies :D

interesting to check out the prices of islands here :D

http://www.vladi-private-islands.de/en/home/

check out the map.. ;)

No. Bitcoin users can buy shares for the project. A total of 1 million shares will be issued. Each share will be equal to 8 square meters of land. (20% of the land will be held as reserve). The purchase price for the shares will be announced later, once the plans are finalized. The entire funding will come from Bitcoin users.

You are really serious about this project, are you?
This is as I earlier said a really interesting project. Here's a link to a similar project: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Utopia
We could maybe contact them and see if they have any advices on how we should move on?

I am really serious about this project. But I need time to finalize all the plans, as I am working on another project also (buying Amazonian rain forest). Yes... any advice will be welcome.

make this project a priority, it will bring more attention and good things to bitcoin

also somehow make sure that the users who invest can't be scammed (so they know it) and they will invest, this way it unlikely to get millions of $ since the New Utopia scandal :D

As far as I know none lost money in the New Utopia project? And what scandal are you talking about?

Hey guys, what about selling some shares for litecoin as well?
Sure, it's an alt-coin, however it is the original scrypt-coin and there are many rich litecoiners!
So why not let them join this project?

oh, sory

just saw a lat of "fraud" and simmiliar, and thought wrong..
sory..

I don't have a problem with this.

But as a first part of my assessment study, I am currently studying what are the legal implications of setting up an artificial island at Saya de Malha. I don't want to invest millions of $$$, and then allow the Mauritian Navy to dynamite it. I want to make sure that the island is legally viable.

I hope you find out there is legal clearance in the chosen area.


Pre-mined land coin?
/just kidding

No. Some space is needed for administrative buildings, nature reserves, hospitals.etc

this thread got me googling around, I read a bunch of stuff really :D

the Minerva Reefs is something to think about..

altough they weren't claimed by any nation when Oliver brought in sand and set his own flag sending declaration of independence to other countries,  soon angry Tongas occupied and annexed the area with international support altough they never claimed the reefs before!

Well... the Minerva reefs are not located in the international waters. They are located inside the Tongan EEZ. So no surprise there.

Sealand already had such idea. There might be bigger problem with creating this "artificial island".

South of USA, there is nice, cute spot.

oh

I didn't know that, that was a pretty stupid decision of Oliver..

hope we don't make the same mistake :D


if there was land here earlier it's relativly shallow, we just need to pour some concrete or sand to raise it above see level..

Sealand is different, they just claimed a WW2 platform that was already there :D

we need to create a new island..

No. Definitely we don't want to commit the same mistake. That is why I am taking time in studying the legal implications.

This needs considerable investment not less than 100 million plus a private army to protect your project.

or a larger country we could have good relations with and which would protect us from intruders :)

To build an artificial island of 10 sq. km surface area, we need billions of $$$ in investment, not millions.

I still think it would be easier to just buy an island (this for example: http://www.privateislandsonline.com/islands/cebaco-island), hire an army and declare it a nation.
Would be a lot cheaper aswell.

how cheap do you think it is to hire an army?

you would have to keep it forever, once you disallow it, the country that claims right on the island will invade..

Nah, Panama don't even have a standing army.
We wouldn't need a really big army either. Also, if building a new island would cost billions of dollars we could for those money have a small standing army for a long time.

I'm not sure but I think the USA protects Panama?

but you do have a point, still the most wise decision would be not to take any risks

there is no country that will surrender its soverignity to a new formed country with no former history and no international support, the blue helmets might even help the country that is trying to restore its goverment over the territory..

Well, Panama is a member of NATO, however, since we don't really invade the island they won't have to do anything. We buy it and declares it independent. And since we will not strike against Panama first I think that the UN won't do anything either.

you don't understand

you bought the island, you're now a land-owner, not a king

one does not simply declare independence, Panama would still own the territory but it's your house, not your country

just as your backyard in your current country

even countries with history ranging back to the 7th century couldn't simply declare independence without war and you think it's so simple to just start a new nation on an island another country owns :D

if you want to do that the only way without war is to arrange the purchase of the island with their goverment but not as a property, as a new country

they will certainly reject but that's almost the only way without war..

Yeah, we'd be land-owners. I'm not really into the Panamanian laws, but I'm pretty sure you can do most things on your island (as long as it's not illegal, which I highly doubt it is to declare your own nation).
Also, what would they do? Invade us? Okay, sure, but we'd have our own army.
There are not many more things they could do. Even if the UN condemns our actions, nothing more would happen.
I don't say it would be easy, however, it wouldn't be easy to build a new island either.

It's probably easier to find fundings for building a new nation to.

of course it is, it's a crime against their sovereignty

the world would condemn us because they don't won't such countries declaring independence on their territory too, it would be hard for us to trade

and our trade would greatly benefit bitcoin because they would have to trade into our national currency sometimes :D

of course they would invade, look at this realistically

isn't it more simple to build and island in peace instead of spending money on guns, tanks, helicopters, mercenaries, their salaries and having people die for a war we might not even win

set this as an example, Panama has almost 4 million population out of wich they could certainly gather at least a 100 000 soldiers to defend it's territory voluntarely and they will be well armed by a country that exist a long time while we would have to pay a 100 000 soldiers each at least 3000$ monthly (300 000 000$ per month) and count the prices for weapons,food,water,ammunition..

+ our soldiers would have lower moral because they are only paid to do this while the Panama soldiers are fighting for their own teritorry

Panama is a "USA project", not a relevant example.

I still have a hard time seeing Panama invade us...
But on the other hand it is a quite big island that might be worth to defend... If we do it on a smaller island they would probably not bother to do anything about it.

they definitely will
just check out what happend to the Minerva Reefs and other countries Michael Oliver tried to take over..

if Panama becomes insufficient to acquire the island, other countries will definitely help it..

well this i quite ambitiou i guess :D good luck with that.

There is a big difference. If we declare a small, economically uninteresting, island independent in a non-militaristic democratic nation like Panama, they would probably not agree with us doing that, however, it would not be worth it. Remember that funding a invasion is quite a big deal.
A big mistake that Michael Oliver did was that he did it in Tongan waters, and Tonga is a monarchy where the king has power. He also build it in a good fishing area (that might have just been an excuse though).

100 to 1000 soldiers is enough to protect that small Island. As long as it has civilians they won't just bomb in the Island that is violation.  A small navy is enough with missile defense. Just small enough deterrent and media coverage and they will not touch us.

and the island isn't in Panamas waters?


that did not stop the Serbs in slaughtering everyone they found in cities they conquered

We will be using the power of the media. This is a different story this is not a rebellion. lol Before creating that Island we will create a buzz in the media. Make a hype on the project make the people love it. If the Island is on the international water no one would touch it or face an international sanctions and face open war.

Find a suitable island, governed by sufficiently corrupt politicians. Pay enough of them to declare the island a sovereign territory. Paying politicians is always cheaper than doing the work yourself.

why don't we search for Atlantis - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantis

Fuck off Mamas boy we are serious here.

So the only unclaimed areas I found was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bir_Tawil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bir_Tawil)

Only Bir Tawil and Marie Byrd Land are not claimed by any of the other 222 entities.

Bir Tawil is between countries possibly hostile to western nationals and christians.

Marie Byrd Land is freezing cold located in Antartica

And yeah it's a desert too.

There are Egyptian soldiers in Bir Tawil, although the area is not inhabited by civilians. I don't want to pickup a fight with the Egyptian military, they are quite strong. Also, the region is land-locked.

we were talking about the island in Panamas juridisticion, that would indeed be a rebellion

you bought the island as a land owner and declere it independent, that's a rebellion

I would seriously move in if the island offers me a job.

I'd prefer not to crash there with the plane though and find out weird mysteries about the island.

Still they wouldn't do anything unless we'd threaten with war or something.
(Panama is btw not a part of NATO I just saw, which I earlier stated).

why do you assume they wouldn't do anything?

we kidnapped a part of their territory, they wouldn't certainly let it go

We will attract big investors with 0% Corporate tax and nominal income tax. There will be jobs for everyone.

woow

I wasn't thinking about that, that will indeed attract investors..

+ they will have to buy bitcoins in order to give out salaries

@blacksails

the island also has around 30 houses of population, Panamas duty is to protect their people and their territory  :-\

they would invade and that's a risk we can't take!

international waters are the right choice to do this :)

Because it wouldn't be worth it.
Ah, a bit of miscommunication here, I haven't talked about that island in my last few posts, since I realized that island would be to important to let go. I have talked about a random, uninhabited, few hectare big island, that really wouldn't be worth to do anything about.


Btw, about this build a new island idea, since it's going to be built in international territory, that could interfere with the interests of all UN-nations.

http://www.ideabounty.com/blog/post/2655/spiral-island-ii-the-floating-plastic-island

Maybe something like this could be built, moved in to location, and serve as a base for the creation of something more permanent.

I've got to say it's really cool. Maybe we could build a floating archipelago around this new island we are going to build?
That would mean more people could live there!

The main island will be permanent one. More floating islets can be built later, if the need arises.

Floating concrete island would be more durable.

how?

as the law goes who discoveres an island at least 12 miles away from shore of any country can claim it as its own, as we created it and claimed it I see nothing that could go against interests of all UN nations

If you build a new nation in a place that belongs to everyone, they might consider it to be territory stolen from them. I don't know if that would happen, but it's worth taking into consideration. It has never been tried before.

...against the interests of all UN nations
If we don't join the UN or obey them, then are we not "going against interests of all UN nations?"
 ...&...
The other option is to join and obey.

That is the plan. But we need a small (and really dedicated) military to discourage any of the potential bullies (such as the US and the UK). And even before we build our island, we will establish peaceful diplomatic contacts with as many nations as possible.

Long live Bitcoinia!  :D

A better name is needed.

if we build 2 islands close to each other we could be called

Bitcoin Islands

sounds cool :)

No chance, that is a failed scam exchange where people lost way too much to ever forget.
Bitcoinia has been hacked. Thousands of bitcoins were stolen.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Bitcoinia&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb

"Yes... Yes... This is a fertile land and we will thrive. We will rule over all this land and we will call it... This Land."

If we build canals through the island we could call it that! :D

The name won't be Bitcoinia. Sounds too lame. But right now I am not worrying too much about the name. It is one of my last concerns.  ;D  First let's get the plan finished.  ;D

the name is the least of our problems, we could simply create a new thread where people would propose new ideas for the name and later on a poll where we would vote..

certainly some of us would think of an awesome name :D

currently I can only think of funny ones (except Bitcoin Islands, that really sounds cool :D)  for example

United states of Bitcoin (USB) :D

Bitconistan

in the meanwhile (while writing this)got some good ideas

Bitcoin republic

Bitland

Liberty Island

Cryptoland (not a cool name but looks like a country name :D)

May be we can have a poll later for the name. Liberty Island seems to be a good name for me.

Liberty Island does not need an Emperor.
Why are you calling yourself The Emperor? (under your avatar)

Why constraint yourselves to earth? Moon and Mars are here, with lots and lots of unclaimed lands waiting to be populated. Mars one will send the first colonization mission to mars in 2023, we can do that too.

Y, internet a bit laggy, but soon they will make computers based in the quantum entanglement and this will not be a problem anymore

Erh, you thinking of Mars One? Cool project for sure, but that's a one way trip. They can only live in their small houses and there's a heavy delay on the internet. Why would we wanna do that? And now I'm not even mentioning how much it would cost.

Mars won't be inhabitable for the next 100 years or so. I don't want to wait until then.

How about creating one of our own, just like UAE built Palm Islands by infilling the sea waters with sand?

Space.

that is the general idea

@for those saying space


too expensive + we couldn't trade with other nations and therefore could not force them to purchase our currency + no tourists

I think we need to create a small main island first then just expand it when we have enough funds.

how small are you thinking?

If I were to decide. I would create the first island using floating concrete. A design that when we need to expand we can easily add another floating island concrete. The size big enough to be stable and hard anchor it on the seabed. Ten football fields is ok? When government near is not favorable we can transfer it to another location. Then we can create a permanent island if the idea is proven feasible.

I don't like that idea where someone can simply sink us down, we need an island, not a ship

Its not permanent its only temporary, it is not ship. hardly a ship. it like a floating match with multiple waterproof compartment inside with wall thinniest dimension is 2 meter thick of hard concrete. It can only be sink if you broke all air compartments.

That is the entire idea. Check my previous posts here. And we might have to use concrete pillars and plenty of rock along with the sand, for stability. And it is likely to be expensive.

The UAE islands are more rock than sand. There is plenty of information regarding how it was build, look it up.

Concrete is hygroscopic... so no matter how well you build this island, you will get water inside everything. Salt creep would also be a major issue. The salt crystallization would also likely destroy the concrete from the inside. Strong concrete is reinforced with rebar. I imagine the cost of rebar that would not be very quickly corroded beyond use would be very high. Pykrete might be a better short term, floating island solution.

Sorry. No floating temporary structures. We are going for a permanent artificial island.

Maybe we could cover the concrete foundations with a thin layer of aluminum? Aluminum 5754 is pretty resistant to salt water if understand it correctly.

You'll need some sort of a planform to work from to build the permanent structure. A barge with a solar/wind powered pump and a dredge might get you going... but you're going to need something large that floats.

Quantum entanglement based computing will solve the problem of internet delay, and we are close to invent the teleport, so the trading problem will be over soon. Money won't be a problem when BTC reaches 1billion each. The space ops will be like the internet or mobile phoes, in few decades we will be far ahead than we might imagine now, we just need to believe.

Yeah, right, I don't know about that, but anyway we don't have those things right now. And when we've got those things we can start discussing a colonization of Mars. We got to focus on what we can create with the technology we've got right now, not with technology that we might have in the future.
Also, unless the dollar rate drops extremely much, I really doubt we'll get to see 1 billion dollars per BTC.

before making any real decisions we should know how shallow the waters are there, how deep it is


damn, 17m-29m, isn't really shallow as I thought

that would be a hell lot of sand :D

hmm, sand is really cheaper than I thought, just googled it, apparently it's around 20$ per ton

the question is how much we're going to need :D

and it's a lot :D

Sand is cheap, but a ton is much less volume than you'd think. Getting it there is a much greater cost. Dredging it from the near by ocean bottom would be more practical. You'll need a substrate though. Something to hold the sand in place. Large limestone boulders in a huge stack would work... but 30' is a lot of damn rock. once you get close to the surface, cyprus trees could hold the finer particles together.

Some $10 billion USD in funding will be needed to build an island of 10 sq.km in size. That is $1,000 per square meter. So a typical 400 sq.m plot will cost you $400,000.

The land prices are quite high. But considering the fact that there will be no wealth tax or corporate tax, it will pay off in the long term.

Why do you even need an island?
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #DqL5dLsJM2bQbMhF

Because all the available land is occupied by some country or the another. We need to create new land (outside the land and marine borders of the existing nations) to be sure of our sovereignty.

What is this btcisland about

It would more than 100k btc to buile a country

  I still think it would be a lot cheaper to buy a corrupt government in Africa and pay their parliament to approve everything, like the current elite do with the US senate.

That depends on the Bitcoin exchange rates, unfortunately. If BTC reaches $100,000 vs the USD, then we might need around BTC100,000. It won't be much difficult, as Bitcoin exchanges will rush to establish their offices there.

if this is true we won't be able to build an island od even 10 sq.km in size

the whole market cap of all bitcoins is in total 5 413 678 734$
aka. 5.4 billion $, so if we had all the bitcoins on the spot we still wouldn't have enough money to build a 10 sq.km island!

are you sure we need so much money for such a small island?

I mean, if this is true and if we even issue shares, it would still be questionable if we could raise enough money..

I am not planning to build this island immediately. I haven't even finished finalizing my plans. May be by 2018 or so, we will be able to start work. Hopefully by then, BTC will be trading at $10,000 - 100,000 range. If it is trading at 100K, then 100K Bitcoins might be needed. At 10K, one million coins will be needed. Not a big amount, considering the number of people who want to live outside governmental oppression.

we can take alt-coins in account too, they might be able to invest some money too :D

but the problem is if we raise 1 000 000 bitcoins we'll most probably have to sell them in order to build the island and therefore crash&burn the bitcoin price to it's lowest

we will need to find people who will do it for bitcoins..

I am not sure about that. May be we'll be able to find a compromise.


Building the island will take a lot of time. So we have plenty of time to sell the coins.

And everyone ridiculed dank when he wanted to build an island a couple years ago.

May be he was not serious about the idea. Or he had some really unworkable ideas.

Or just a step ahead for his time.

what about Bermuda triangle ?

I don't think that's in international waters, and if it is there would be no good banks to place the island on AFAIK.
Would be quite awesome to place it in the Caribbean though, much closer to a really important country.

just setup a coop to buy a big boat and live on there as sea gypsies, trading your crypto for supplies with the natives of the places you visit while following the summer yearlong. you would earn the coins selling tickets /renting out cabins.
that's much more fun and feasibility.

edit: on the pirate's self-government
http://www.cato-unbound.org/2007/08/06/peter-t-leeson/anarchy-unbound-or-why-self-governance-works-better-you-think (http://www.cato-unbound.org/2007/08/06/peter-t-leeson/anarchy-unbound-or-why-self-governance-works-better-you-think)

Yes. The Bermuda triangle is too deep to build any artificial structure. And unfortunately, the Caribbean though is mostly lying outside the international waters. Whats wrong with the present location?

the present location is good but it would be better if we found something more shallow..

"In large parts of the developing world governments are too weak or dysfunctional to perform even the most basic tasks, like securing the property rights of their citizens. According to the 2007 Failed States Index, governments in 129 countries are on or nearing the brink of collapse."

~50% of all governments are/were on or nearing the brink of collapse.
I has no idea the number was that high.

It's easy to spend other people's coins, isn't it dank?

We have selected the shallowest location inside the international waters. There are even more shallower locations available, but they are all located inside some nations Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ).

perhaps some of the nations would allow us to purchase it as we wouldn't really break their territorial sovereignty, they would probably because it's just water, if the country is poor they would probably sell it to us

depends how shallow it is and is it worth it, if it's really shallow yeah, should be done :D

As I have explained it, there will be no compromise on our sovereignty. Will will not be part of any nation. We will be an independent nation on our own right. So this option cannot be considered.

This is needs a lot money. Not less than 100 million.

Nope, that won't be enough! See this:

we went over this

a 10 sq km island would cost billions not millions

Yes... unfortunately. We are planning to build the island in Saya de Malha, where the shallowest regions have the depth of 25-30m. So it will be a bit more expensive when compared to the other artificial islands such as the Palm islands.

those are some areas, doesn't mean that's  the average depth

So? You're not building at an area of average depth. That would be stupid. You're going to build it at the shallowest suitable location.

Boy... I was talking about building a 10 sq.km island (2,500 acres). That is a very large area. Therefore, the entire location won't be having uniform 10m depth. Some parts might be 50m deep, some others might be just 8 meters deep.

This is very huge undertaking if 10 sq. m is you wanted. You need billions and thousands of people. You are making history here.

That much area is necessary as well. I am planning this island for tens of thousands of people. Don't want it to get ultra-congested, such as cities such as Kowloon. Looking at a Singapore model.

and you just entered history by posting a reply here :D

for other shizzles

we should get the area scanned to see how big of an area are those shallow depths..
and to see which location would be the most suitable one

I've read the entire thread but I still wonder why one would want to build such thing as a bitcoin island?
What would be the purpose of it? Have I missed something major?

1.massive media coverage
2.no taxes, legal weed, aka. utopia
3.official currency bitcoins
4.tourists will be forced to buy bitcoins to purchase stuff on our island increasing the price significantly

and that's just out of the top of my head :D

have you ever wanted not to pay taxes? :)

Right in the middle of the pacific

Try near Benham Rise or in Benham Plateau.

As remote as possible to make sure telecommunication is almost impossible (apart from satellite), make it very difficult to get supplies in, be as unprotected as possible against hurricanes.
Great location  :D

I was thinking it might be a good place but it wooed be better to start building a 1 km x 1 km platform and then if the need for more land you build 1 more square, until you fulfilled the demand for land. The cheapest way doing it wooed be building a box of cement around it 2 m thick and then add stone on the outside of the cement wall and sand inside, and then place trees whit deep roots. (what I think no ex) In order to finance the project someone shude start up a fond, the thing is we want a land whit no oppression but we still want to get back our investments, whit will be huge, around 100 millions dollars. But I think it won’t be hard to get it back if we can make a safe heaven for tax dealers. They have to pay to stay on the island but it will be cheap compared to the huge amounts of money they have to tax in the own land.

Well my English is bad I aren’t native English speaker   8)


love the ide ;;D

Its meant to be a land for 100 % freedom but it wont be possible, you need payback on investments, but almost no taxes, cheep beer, and wild growing weed  

Nope, that's a part of the Philippines.
Also we could place massive cables on the sea bed, like it's done across the atlantic. I mean, with this massive budget we're thinking of that would be no problems.
It would not be hard getting supplies there, we'll just build an airport. No problems.
Hurricanes, well, we'd simply have to build hurricane safe buildings on the island. Shouldn't be that much of a problem using modern architecture. :)
I agree that it might be better to build it piece by piece, that would make the funding problem a bit less.

what hurricanes, we're not making it in the USA :D


why do we need a return of investment when all the money will be gathered by donations?

Any idea who's going to pay for all this in a country that doesn't raise any taxes from it's citizens?
This again shows that a lot of people are just dreamers and/or don't seem to be able to think rationally about things.

The plan is to build the island itself on money donated by people and companies. The house building process when the island is finished will be done by the people that owns pieces of land and wants buildings I guess?

For the past 2-3 days, I am going through the GEBCO gridded bathymetry data (30 seconds resolution) for the Saya de Malha region. Still can't finalize a location. I don't know much about the accuracy of the data, but I hope it will be good for at least the preliminary calculations. And regarding those shallow depths, they are more or less scattered.

donations can work as well as taxes, probably even better

^^^ We will be operating a 100% legal Bitcoin-ti-fiat and fiat-to-Bitcoin exchange service. Also, there will be state owned Bitcoin-based gambling and other ventures as well. The service fee from these operations will be more than enough to take care of the expenses (such as army, navy.etc). Also, we will be renting out land to large-scale investors to establish shopping centers and other commercial buildings. A part of this income will be paid to the share-holders, while the remaining will go to the national budget.

There is a basic misunderstanding of economics in this plan.

Try looking using google earth. It shows depth I don't know how accurate it is.

Nope. It is very difficult to do the calculations. I am viewing the data in Q-GIS. Quite easy to create the polygons and get the average depths and area.

Its meant to be a land for 100 % freedom but it wont be possible, you need payback on investments, but almost no taxes, cheep beer, and wild growing weed  
[/quote]

why do we need a return of investment when all the money will be gathered by donations?
[/quote]

We would need 100 millions of dollars, I am a dreamer first hand, but in order to actually create something you need to add reason. Why wooed we build something we won’t be able to be a part in? So you mean we build it and then give it away to the first persons to arrive to the bitcoin land? Someone in the tread sad that 1 ton on sand cost 1 dollar, If we cover a square kilometer and the depts. are 27 meters it be 1000 * 1000 * 23 = 23 000 000 dollars.

 8)

We need other expensive building materials as well, such as concrete pillars.

At an average depth of some 30m, we might require 300 million cubic meters of material. If 90% of that is sand, then we might require a total of around 400 million tonnes of sand. The cost of dredged sand is right now at around $10 per cubic meter (around $6.7 per ton).

It’s a good idea but few investors will have the money to even to own a 1 m * 1 m of land on the island. I think it should be better to make it a paradise where you can chose if you want you’re share in land ore want to rent it out. If you rent it out  you will be paid every month, to make it fare we shade create a system that if you chose the second option you will not own any real land you will rather own a % of the total land that has not been claimed. Let’s say 10 % want a share of land then 90 % want to rent it because they don’t have Enoch ground to build anything on. Then you will get you’re % out of the land (90% that no one claimed) and if one person decides to rent 10 m square of land the income will be shard equally by the % you own in total. If one person have 10 % and the other has 0.01 percent the first one gets 10 % of the rent and the 0.01 get 0.01  %

Hehe I really am a dreamer but it’s fun to have a big imagination

that was the plan if we were to issues shares (which we probably must, since gathering such large quantities by donations would be a problem)

no taxes would indeed attract investors

but would we welcome illegals to our land?

I can think of a lot of people which would come here just to grow weed and resell it in other countries

Silk Road comes to mind :D

It’s a good question there is things I don’t want to see on the island. I don’t want slavery it’s meant to be free from oppression, but certain side business will make the land successful. I was thinking fish growing would be a good side business when we easy can crate huge ponds while making the island. I don’t see any problems whit people coming and grow it on our islands ass long they pay low taxes and give a fare selling price on the island hehe ;P. But there are certain drugs that are to dangers to be allowed on the island like heroin, it would create endless problems and a bad media impact. In other to keep the islands ours we need to have democracy. Where etch share holder will have different votes depending on their investments to bitcoin island. To make it fare you can buy shares from each other and bye so increase you’re influence on the island. There will not be a set price on the shares you can sell them of sheep ore expensive depending on the interest by others.

there will be no taxes

we're going to a utopia

not just a country like any other :D

where did you even come up with slavery, the main point is freedom

lol

like other nations would even allow us to have slavery

we should not forbid any supstances but educate our islanders about the harms of those drugs

I did not mean taxes i ment rent for land my bad  :P

I to want a utopia where everything is legal but we need some basic rules ore it be anarchy (as few rules as possible)

Won't be a utopia if love is banned like Bryant proposes.

Where did he propose that?

basic rules will be only against murder,robbery,rape and etc. :)

and hacking

Why? I think hacking and hacktivism should be encouraged. Since we'd have laws against stealing, any hacking related theft (when it comes to money anyway) would be illegal anyway!

yeah, we want our bitcoins secure :D

Yes. We are issuing shares. Out of a total area of 10 million sq.m, 5 million sq.m will got to the shareholders. There will be 5,000,000 shares, each share worth 1 sq.m.

Non-citizens will be able to travel to the island and buy weed without any restrictions. But they will have no right to cultivate and sell weed. That right will be reserved to licensed citizens.

There will be no income tax. But there will be a GST over weed sales.

https://soundcloud.com/dankm/stop-the-machine

there shouldn't be any  of that

only property rent, no taxes, no GST

100% utopia, not 90% :D

I am not sure about that. We need at least some revenue, to maintain a proper well-armed army. Anyway, it is up to the share-holders to decide. In Bitcoin island, the voting rights will be limited to the share-holders, on all aspects.

1 share 1 vote or 1 shareholder 1 vote?

sounds more like a company than an island

well, we need to get the money to build it from somewhere :D

1 share = 1 vote. A total of 5 million shares, and therefore 5 million votes. I don't think I'll be able to afford more than one share. So probably I'll be having one vote.  ;D


Yes... that is the problem.

This. The island can't be built without proper funding, and you need a lot of $ for it.

do you even read?

shares motherfucker, shares :D

I think that's exactly what he meant, you get money from the shares lol! :P

good ide 1 share = 100 buks

5 000 000 shars = 500 000 000 buks

Then i definitely would buy 20 shares, and we will have 499 980 shars left

it could get the proper exposure, it's interesting stuff

I think we could sell all of those shares..

We need around $ 10 billion. So, 1 share = $2,000.

A bit expensive, but you get 1 sq.m land along with the share, and annual dividends.

Do you honestly think creating an island will accomplish anything in terms of revolutionizing society?

Well, so far the other two attempts that were mentioned/linked to in this article failed miserably. One was bullied away by governments claiming ownership of the area, and the other was apparently a giant floating concrete slab which sunk.

Maybe island isn't exactly the best way to go given that the weather is getting crazier every year; there are more storms, tsunamis, hurricanes, the water level is rising, etc....

How about Bitcoin underwater colony lol?

Not everything. But it is a major stepping stone. At least normal people who want to trade Bitcoin (such as myself) can do the same without harassment from the IRS and the cops.

quite interesting concept

bit expensive but I see no reason why it would't catch on

its very expensive to buy me ! hope share will down one day :P

Yes... I agree. It is a bit expensive right now. But you will not say this when Bitcoin reaches $100,000 vs the USD. Remember, I am planning to start building the island by 2018. Who knows? By that time BTC might reach unbelievable heights.  ;D

plus they can grow weed legally on the island :D

it's a whole new level of freedom

basically no tax, no restrictions

only against robbery,murders,rape..

we're basically putting police back to what they're made to do

we're creating a society for the people :)

that is quite true :D

can't you resereve some free shares for us who helped the idea in the early beginning? :D

For the price of your island, we can throw a music festival to bring world peace 100 times.  Why don't we try it for 1% of that figure?

Then you would have an island, more island that you would have otherwise.

this post is so dank

Move to Colorado?

You should be looking to build enough of a land mass to poke up out of the water. Then work on keeping it there, and make it grow. A floating island with a solar powered dredge would be a hell of a start, with WAY less capital investment. You'd have a platform to start something. You could establish the island, more as a proof of concept, then look for investors.

lol... I don't think that I'll be the one who leads this project. I am not that experienced with the Bitcoin scene. I got my first coins only in January 2013. My trust ratings are still Zero. I will prepare the initial plan, and hopefully some of the experienced admins in this forum will take it forward. At the most, I might buy one or two shares, if I could afford. But I have no intention to become the leader in this project.

How did you calculate this sum?

What is the point of building a Bitcoin island? what is it for?

Go back read the whole thread. This is been answered many times.

So like a disney land, but just bitcoin related things and services.

So those shares will be equity shares or preference shares ?  ::)

god damn it, can't you guys read? :D

list a few pages back ;)

The total expenses will be around $10 billion. And 50% of the land area will be directly given to the shareholders, where they can do whatever they want. So.. that means 5 million sq.m to the shareholders. I made 1 sq.m = 1 share.

I take it back.  We can throw 10,000 world peace music festivals at that price.

Looks like someone is trying to get rich and doesn't really care about the quality of life of others.

According to you, conducting world peace music festivals is much more important than creating a refuge for people who are tired of NSA and the IRS. But how many people will agree with you? Off course, I don't want to attend any world peace music festival.

Bitcoin island should be in many places so that many people can benifit from it, other wise one region people will get benefit

After we establish the first island at Saya de Malha, may be we can think about establishing other islands. But we might have to first assess the success and profitability of the main island.

That's not nearly as important. I don't really care about those music festivals nor do I see their real world benefit.
The NSA and IRS on the other hand are troubling and an issue.

I don't quite see how international peace music festivals would actually contribute to world peace..

May be by blaring intolerable music at 160 dB, it will cause people losing their mental balance, there by making the soldiers unable to fight anymore.  ;D

I am not against music festivals. But I see no point in discussing about it in this thread.  

Those music festivals is irrelevant to the topic. I wish you make this thread self moderated to delete those unwanted replies.

Nah, then it would not come up with new ideas, and not be as entertaining to read! ;)

Btw, can I reserve a few shares on the coast of the island? :P

I don't want any moderation here. We are free-thinking people. So no censorship. People are free to share their ideas. But it is up to them to stay on the topic. If they stray away from it, bad for them.

How we start this island? What we need to do?

First read all the 15 pages of the thread.

I finish reading all the 15 pages. I did not found how. Do you know?

There needs to be a lot of discussion before a how. You could magically create a project on building an (Bitcoin) island in the international waters.
I don't think that nobody knows the real answer here.
Has this even been done before?

A music festival of a massive scale with a synchronized effort to ascend humanity would result in an infinitely positive feedback loop.  The positive energy would spread throughout the world.

The NSA wouldn't be an issue, the government wouldn't be an issue, we would all be one.  We would be the happiest we have ever been, anything goes from there.

Are you high again?This depends on every individual. I was never really affected by this kind of music, be it from my speakers or a festival.
I'm sure that many feel the same way. This is why it doesn't work.

Note: We are going way off topic here.

Nooo, don't feed the troll. He'll just keep doing this as long as people are responding to his crazy ramblings.

You underestimate the power of infinite positivity.

There will come a day when everyone drops their guns, everyone feels peace, and everyone ascends.  We will be one.

Research mass meditation, it has been shown to bring peace in war zones when people strategically meditated throughout them.

we have been writing about pouring sand until it breaks the sea level + setting some concrete poles

you did not read all the 15 pages

That is no brainer. lol. What I mean why we haven't started this yet. Like electing a leader, starting to solicit funds. etc.

Because it's a ridiculous idea and nobody will ever follow through with this post made for fun?

No its not, depends on the leader and the communities will.

Then why did you tell him to read fifteen pages of the thread?

Does bitcoin island comes with bitcoin prison and bitcoin army?

Yes.There will be a police force, to enforce the law and order, as well as an army to protect you from the outside invasion. But I want to assure you that the Police force will be 100% professional, and well mannered.  ;D

Doesn't every government say that?  :D

Couldn't the islanders themselves be the guards? Would save some money to!

I hope not, especially dank.  bitcoin islanders is not train to do this. they would rather enjoy smoking weed.   :)

First we will try to recruit from among the citizens. And the salaries will be paid only in Bitcoins.

I wonder if there'll be any communities that will rise up independantly and try use Bitcoin as a currency?

I'm sure we might get a libertarian commune somewhere eventually, but it'll be difficult to use exclusively without many more merchants or industries accepting it. A small country using Bitcoin or their own crypto would be a interesting experiment.

This 'project' is so loosely though of that I'm scared if this does happen. Not everybody can just pack up and go 'Hey, met some people online, International Waters.' There needs to be a stable council that comes up with ideas. Not just random people asking questions, and people answering them.

This is a potential/country/micronation people! Not a Utopian city. You can't just say things like:


Every country says this. We need something to make us different, instead of the fact of just using Bitcoin. Plus, just letting EVERY cryptocurrency go to a micronation? Nuts or not? If people are already shaming Altcoins, this needs to be thought of properly.

We can encourage migration of bitcoiners to deserted villages. I heard that there are some 3,000 depopulated villages in Spain. I think the number might be much higher for the USA. Once our population get to 1,000 or 2,000, we can ask for local elections and elect our own candidates. Local representatives have only limited power, but even they will be able to do a lot for the Bitcoin.  

Note: The first priority however, remains building the Bitcoin island.

Because everybody can fly out to some island, and I'm guessing you haven't thought of this, without anybody searching it for diseases or game. Yes, many people will invest in this island without proper planning.

you have to understand this isn't even the alpha phase yet, we're just discussing how it should be done
there's plenty of time to finalize the project

You don't understand. This is going to be a COUNTRY. A living, thriving, country. Even discussions are supposed to be professional. This isn't some COMPANY, were people get together and discuss what's going on, in different phases.

I have a idea - Focus on one topic or such for ever month. Come back and polish the ideas afterwards.

This is going to be? Sounds like a pretty big promise, how far in the process are you right now if I may ask? :)

Are you just posting randomly due to the signature?
Obviously there is no process yet, this is only being discussed. This project would be on a huge scale, if it ever happens.

I have already put him on my ignore list. 99% of his posts are just plain spam. I don't have time to go through all that. Let's continue the discussion. In the last post, I was talking about the police force and the military.

Well that isn't easy either. You've said that you would first try recruiting citizens, wouldn't that require extra training if they don't have the necessary skills? That would just add additional costs.
I do think that actually building the island would be the hardest step and most expensive one.

I hope that at least 0.3% of the Bitcoiners are policemen by profession. So... if we have 10,000 people moving to the island, we will be having at least 30 policemen. I was not talking about training newbies to become policemen.  ;D


Yes. The obstacles have to be solved in three phases.

1. Solving the legal obstacles
2. Solving the financial obstacles
3. Solving the technical obstacles

That seems like a fair number.
I can't decide which phase is harder for this kind of project.

Hardly any Bitcoiner would like to live in a place without modern infrastructure, and the free places where you can start micronation, rocks or very small islands have 0 infrastructure.

you fail to see the point

we would build the island on our own and of course the infrastructure too


most of the infrastructure would be built by land owners on their own land which they got along with their shares..

The government will also chip in, with the revenues generated from tourism, rent and other services. Roads, Schools.etc will be built by the government. We don't want to burden the citizens too much.

Without talking about the financial and political problems here is the best location for me but first lets look at the criterias for what the best location for an island would be

1-Supply proximity for building and resupply in food energy and water till infrastructer are made to bypass external world at least partially
2-Proximity to internet nodes
3-Weather ,good seasonal weather would help with water supply (of course sea/ocea water can be used but that consumes a lot of energy) and with harvest

There are 2 places that come to mind (and I expressed this in another articale)

Near Morocco in the atlantic ocean, where fiber optic lines coming from NA, EU and Africa meets, the weather is great, you have 4 seasons, in autumm winter great quatities of rain without being too cold, and in summer due to ocean weather it's not to hot, not much storms not much earth quacks in the region, also in terms of building cost and infrastructures, the cost are cheap while Morocco has relatively good Infrastructure in is very close to EU, so anything needed from there is very accessible. in terms of Energy Solar being it Thermal or photo voltaic, wind, tidal, and hydraulic (using ocean currents) are all viable, also the region is very rich in terms of fish, since cold and hot water meets around that region.

The other place, is a bit disadvantageous, but has similar advantages, I believe south asian region, near philipines, is a good place, the fact that old volcanic islands or formation that didn't reach the top of water can be used in the process of building, the weather is more of a equatorial , so hot humid, but quite the water quantity, supplies can be insured from these sea countries Australia, and building can be done in china.

As for building an artificial island I think we should take note of our expertise and knowledge of oil platform building, build on shore/near shore and pull it to the ocean

^^^^^ OK. Let me study the two locations which you have pointed out. They needs to be in international waters, and they needs to be shallow enough to build an artificial island.

Happy Easter from the USSA.  :) 

Building an artificial island is a fascinating idea.
The primary ones I'm aware of are in/near Dubai and this one (Palm Island) looks like it's doing really well:
http://interestingengineering.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/palm-jumeirah.jpg

Wow, wonderful island, its nice place to start bitcoin island

Palm Island is amazing, but not in international waters.
The photo was just an example of an existing man-made island.  :)

That's quite an expensive island there. It is close to the shore though.

Why not just buy one of this islands http://www.buzzfeed.com/lukelewis/7-private-islands-that-cost-less-than-a-flat-in-london and declare automy or secede after we have enough people.

I have already posted about this multiple times here. All these islands are part of some UN member nation. We can't simply declare our sovereignty, when their sovereignty already exists there.

i guess arab have a great mind by building this wonderful island

Imagination, a good plan, and tons of money.
It sure does look beautiful.

Sarcasm intended, of course, as you may have failed to detect. People are being way to snarky about this. :p

they have the means for their dreams they are also preparing for the post petrol era, such infrastructure is built for touristic and business attractive and that's not the only artificial Island and many are bring built right now in the region ^^

btw how an artificial island on an oil platform would look like , in a dozen of year they'll be a dozen of them free for use as the oil wells will get empty :D

http://blogs.discovery.com/.a/6a00d8341bf67c53ef0168e8c21338970c-pi


and just for reference
http://www2.southeastern.edu/orgs/oilspill/images/offshore_types_wikimedia.jpg




Btw near the palm tree island there is this :

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/19936od4azw1tjpg/original.jpg

The Arabs contributed the money... so in a sense yes.. they have a great mind. But remember that the construction was carried out by the Dutch companies Jan De Nul and Van Oord. The workers were mostly from South Asia (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Nepal). And right now most of the islands are under the possession of Russians and Americans.

Why not make an Island based on the oil platform design? That way we can position it on any desired location we like with out the problem of the deepness.  How much could be the cost?

Not possible, as we are planning for an island with an area of 10 sq. kms.


Check the previous posts.

I'm waiting to buy, I reserve the land that's on the highest platform, my home will overlook the whole island. also make sure the land is fertile or has enough space for agriculture.

There should be plenty of women offering sex services, you wanna make sure its not a sausage island.

Also write down a legal system and constitution we all should vote on.

Won't this cause a problem?

None of the other nations recognize the claim of Mauritius over Saya de Malha bank . So I think there is no problem for us to construct the island there. Anyway Mauritius is a small country, with a population of about 1.2 million. I hope they will not cause too much problems. In case if they do, then we have our army to deal with the situation.

They probably have a small army that can't cause real problems.
I might have missed this, but in case that you didn't post about it anywhere: is it going to be called 'The Bitcoin Island' or have you come up with some other name?

I am not the one to decide this. The shareholders would be voting on the name. There are a total of 5,000,000 shares, so 5 million votes. Any of the shareholders can suggest a name.

ROFLMAO! Guys, let's get one thing straight here - if you go and establish a "Bitcoin" island, it will most definitely be a sausage party. It's going to look something like a LAN party from days of old. A ratio of 1 female per 10-20 males would be a generous estimate.

Mauritius being a population mainly compromised of Indians have an Military pact with India for defense, police and coast guard. So you'll be dealing with the Indian Army (one of the largest Military in the world) in the event of conflict / political drama.

I've been to Mauritius, it's surprisingly very political and the population is very nationalistic.


Location wise though i think it's excellent, as it's located in a trade route between Africa and the east. So if a economic port zone is developed the community of this island can benefit from economic activity from the shipping industry.

And India does not recognize the Mauritian claims over the Saya de Malha bank. So that ends the question. Even if the Mauritian army is going to invade the island, the Indians are not going to support them in anyway.

We should make a pact with Putin and the island would be safe.  :D

Hmmm... don't know whether the Russian military is strong in that part of the Indian Ocean. But the problem is that Putin seems to be hostile to Bitcoins.

I am also worried about the Somali pirates. This region is within their operational range. But still, I hope to scare them off, as they are only armed with light weapons.

As long as we maintain vast wealth and a massive sovereign wealth fund we will be fine. If the island is poor then other countries will attack and we'll be executed overnight by SEAL team X

Money talks

I support this project, I nominate myself as head of treasury and wealth fund. I'm sure shareholders will vote accordingly

I wouldn't give that position to some random member.
Open a lot of great casinos and the island will be rich.  :D

If you own the shares, then you can nominated yourself for the election. But it will depend on the shareholders on whether you are elected to that post or not. All the best!  ;D

Why would you want to live in a country created by someone who titles himself the emperor?  A country with a police force, a country with an army, a country with greed and a closed mindedness to concepts of unity and love?

Sounds just like today's society.

You should make your music festival in this island

Maybe if the island supported a free and family like society rather than another government hell hole.

Sounds like you want to join a collective or something! Why don't you do that?

I'd rather see this earth be a collective.

yeah aramco also is dominated by british people :D my husband told me that

Not entirely true, there are some areas where foreigner companies had to intervene in areas where the huge arab building holding (that owns many of the currents projects) lacks expertise, (not annyone has the technology or the mean to build an artificial Island that will harbor building, and that will response to a requirement book (being it technical, resistance to tidal forces, earthquakes...ect ect environmental one and most importantly in terms of cost, since if you have the expertise and the knowhow you are more efficient than someone who will start from zero) but many parts of the project, especially the traditional part, and also the design was worked out with those holdings, as for workers yes, they come from foreigner countries, which is normal for the region, with a very low population, I'll give an example, Qatar there is 2 million people, less than half of them are Arab and original citizens (40%) the rest are all from migration.

Right now they are building infrastructure everywhere, investing in everything and the original population is far from being enough and doesn't want to do low level basic stuff

We want to make sure that visitors flying to the island have enough money to fly off the island.  Last thing we need is the expense of supporting or flying these people off the island on our dime.

I'll assume we'll have a private charter service that exclusively operates to/from the island. 

I propose that only round trip tickets (open ended) be sold.  In the case where a person only buys a one-way ticket, he must escrow the funds needed to fly home before he is allowed to visit.

for the locations I mentioned, you can use small private planes to get people off and into land, cheap, quick, and inexpensive, and of course boats for cargo and anything related to weight and heavy things

Does anyone else see the irony of central planning a bitcoin island?

No, I don't. Decentralized currency =/= decentralized everything else.

So this island has nothing to do with bitcoin other than funding? Good luck getting those with enough  bitcoins (you know, those that believe in the principal of it) on board.


The degree that central planning works is inversely proportional to size and complexity of the activity.

How would you build a decentralized island? That is impossible. The planing doesn't seem central since everyone is participating here.

Agreed. Non-citizens (i.e everyone excluding the shareholders and their family members) will be forced to buy either a two way ticket or an escrow to travel to the island. Else, squatters will take the advantage of the situation.

They give the money, the foreigners create these projects and the Asians slave to build them

Its not "low" level basic stuff, in most civilized countries construction workers are paid high with lot of benefits more than office workers in most cases. Because they risk a lot of their health to build these buildings.

The only reason Doha for example can build so Mich infra so quickly and easy is not just oil money its also because it costs them next to nothing for slavd asian labor

Look at the Doha FIFA scandal, 100's of Asians die in these construction every year in Doha.

Good idea but I disagree with open ended we need time limit so u can only visit for certain amount of time otherwise we will drown you in the ocean

We should be strict about our soverign state

Squatters with no skills and trouble makers will be made soylent green, two way tickets is not needed.

And none of the world leaders (including Obama, Putin, Hollande and Merkel) have the balls to condemn this blatant violation of human rights, which is occurring in Doha. What more, even the FIFA hasn't said any thing on this issue.

Many of the rich oil nations around there use slaves from asia (and partly africa). It's disgusting, and still the world doesn't react to it.
This article about Dubai sums it up pretty well: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/johann-hari/the-dark-side-of-dubai-1664368.html

When Russia won the right to host the 2018 FIFA World Cup, there was a lot of opposition from people living in the EU / US. They were saying that Russia does not recognize the rights of homosexuals.

I was discussing this issue on another forum, and I pointed out that the country which is hosting the 2022 FIFA WC executes the homosexuals by beheading without any trial. Why blame Russia so much, when Qatar is doing much more atrocious things? None of the EU supporters replied to my post.

No most of these projects are build by in house companies such as Kingdom Holding Company, Saudi Binladin Group ect ect, there are some areas where you need the expertise of foreign companies, especially when you are talking about such unconventional projects (it happens everywhere in the world, once you acquire the expertise you start doing everything on your own)

Doesn't change the fact that it is still manual labor that doesn't require low or basic skills (When I say low or Basic it doesn't take anything from the expertise on those basic task and the craftmanship of some), and you are explaining the reasons your self they are getting payed more (a worker than a basic clerk on a supermarket as for office people that's another story) because of the high risk, high physical strain, and harsh working conditions overall as you explained it well.

It not the only reason, and it cost them billions not next to nothing, the thing is working conditions are bad, workers are forced to do supplementary hours which they are paid for but if they refuse they'll get replaced, and that most projects are 24/7, the same thing is happening in China and other fast growing countries.

Of course there are work ethic problems I think we agree on this but like I said before , more than half of the population in those countries is from asian countries that came there to work due to the huge projects investiment, looking for better salaries than in their home countries

Checked both the locations. Internationals waters near these two locations are too deep to build the island. Shallower locations are available, but they are not in the international waters.

Shhhhh... We are not supposed to talk about that plan in public.
Two way tickets are a kinder, gentler solution.

lol.... seems that a lot of Somali pirates will be converted to soylent green.

How we gonna feed our people? By importing or by growing it on farms on the Island?

Growing seems the better way. Only natural products only hardcore >:D

Aquaponics will solve all our agri issues, I will be on the island advisory board of agriculture and help set this up.

Unfortunately we will have to import most of our food, probably with the exception of fish and other aqua-products. Even if we divert 1/3rd of the land for agriculture (~800 acres, and I don't think that much will be available for farming), it will only produce less than 3,000 tonnes of cereals. Not enough to feed tens of thousands of people.

We will be fine if we have a strong economy. Also we don't need to plan food for a lot of people for starters.

This could be the solution for the lack of space. We can make a floating Aquaponics.

That is also the case. The population will only slowly increase. Don't know how many of the shareholders will actually move in to the island.


Staple crops such as cereals cannot be grown efficiently using Aquaponics. But it is an option which can be explored.

Depending on imports for your food supply is generally a bad plan. Soon as you piss off the wrong people, you could get blockaded or sanctioned or whatever... a few days without food and your whole population is liable to turn on you.

Who the fuck eats cereal? Was that a joke? Yeah I don't think anyone wants to move to a bitcoin island to eat basic grain products. You better plan on being able to delivery luxury.

There are 400 or more types of plants, fruits and vegetables that can be grown in a high quality aquaponics system. A large number of them are highly nutrious such as tomatoes, lettuce, bananas, etc

We can also nurture a variety of fish that we can eat from although we can simply fish our own fish from the ocean

In terms of meat, we can use plants grown on aquaponics to feed animals or we can import our meat to start with.

In terms of cereals yes it's limited we can always import those or find other solutions or adjust our diet accordingly.

What's more important is we can sustain ourselves 100% with just aquaponics, fish (farmed or wild) and limited animals. The rest can be imported, There is so much potential in this field for Bitcoin island sustainability.

Aquaponics can also be used to create our own biofuels, just see where this can go.

As for drinking water, we can use desalination powered by solar energy, that solves part of the problem but the cost of desal is still high.

You do realize that quite a lot of countries don't even have enough of those basic products?
Order your luxury items over ebay and amazon (not food of course).

It’s a very good idea it will solve the basic food need. We code build floating concert platforms to grow on, it would take up less space and it’s cheaper to build than building more land and it we can move them around. We will not be able to grow all the luxury food when it takes up to much land but I think we can cover the basic food need, so in case of an emergency we will not starve to death.

Also I think we will have an ideal place to grow fish. We can have cages underneath the concrete platform to use for growing fish in the salt water.

We could also have a few growing house(s), a few high-rises of glass in which we have strong lights, soil and water. With enough light we could grow staple food in there. As long as we produce our own energy on the island, the electricity needed would not cost us anything. The top floors could be a green house, and would not need any artificial lights either. That could be an option to grow some stuff on the island anyway.

Nice ide  :D

If we build a island for scratch we should be able to create one or more artificial points were the underwater current will be strong that will be the place for our main power supply, it will be endless free green electricity.

why not  a Bitcoin Space station ?

Hmmm.. so I think that we can be self-sufficient on almost all food materials, with the exception of cereals. And regarding the drinking water, we will either decide to go for salt-water desalination or rain water harvesting.

Specialize in something you can do better than anyone else... and export it.

Why not both? It's good to have multiple options.

International waters are by definition deep, and both location have some places that are not deep and they are on international deep (of course it's all relative but 100 or 200meters deep, is not close 2 or 3 or 4Km deep

oh i go for # 2  ;)

Constructing an artificial island in an area with a depth of 200m requires huge amount of money. The construction cost for a 10 sq. km island there can be well over $250 billion. No one has done that before, and I really doubt whether such an island can be stable.

$250 Billion is too much, it will cost billions for sure but at 2 digits at most because as I mentioned the region is not that expensive, being it in terms of building materials or workers. and at this stage building an artificial Island being it on shallow or intermediate or deep water is an expensive thing to do and will cost billions, the advantage is that if you go with a deep water project is that you'll go with a floating design than building in island from shore ground. also like I said by definition international waters are deep (might be an exception but doubtful) since the rules depending if you it is an island or continental country (plateau) the national water spread several dozens of km from the shore

250 billion usd is more than enough to wage war against small countries and conquer them or buy an island with independence declaration included.

No we are not going for a floating project. Anyway, floating islands can become unstable if they exceed a particular size and will eventually break-up. And regarding the costs for filling 200 meters of sea, it will be surely more than $250 billion. A total of around 5 billion cubic meters of maters will be needed for a pyramidal structure. Even if it is entirely of sand, it will cost some $35 billion. But we need a lot of concrete, steel and other materials. So the cost will rise to many times that.

No they don't: Oil platforms (heck oil platform has dig anywhere from 4 to 12km deep and the head had to go straight (if the platform move it could break the whole drilling head and what's not, yet it doesn't happen why? because the platforms are stabilized and fixed in the location. And can you please provide more data about the costs you are talking about and how you are able to calculate them.

Also if you are going to build an Island on international water, no matter where you built it it will not be on shallow water for sure so I believe that this shoudn't be an argument to begin with

That will be the most expensive part of the project. So we need somewhere between 250 - 500$ billion total?

No. If we are building in Saya de Malha, we might need around $ 10 billion.


The oil platforms have only a few hundred meters in surface area. So they are stable. The more bigger the area, the more unstable they becomes.


I just interpolated the costs, based on the estimated costs incurred for building the major artificial island projects around the world (such as the palm islands).


Check my previous posts. Saya de Malha is quite shallow, with 20-30m depth.

Any update on this project? We should make this project as affordable as possible. So we can start right away. We should start making a small island first and just increase it overtime.

Still studying the legal ramifications. And regarding the affordability part, I think at $1,000 per sq.m, it is more or less affordable to most of the Bitcoiners. Or it will be affordable when Bitcoin hits $100,000. We are not starting right away. The plan is to start building in 2018, once we could gather the necessary funds and other things which are needed.

War and conquer is not an option.
Buying an island might work, but you cannot just declare independence from the larger country that has power over the island.

It is quite the opposite, the more massive the area is on water the more stable it is, also stabilizer are a technology that is not expensive and we've already mastered (look no further than aircraft carriers for example)
On what base did you do such interpolation ? it doesn't make much since at all, we aren't even talking about the same area materials and workforce is at least 10x as expensive


Please tell me what would make 30m any different than 50m or 100m deep as I mentioned before (compared to Km of deepness) like I said before you are just choosing what shallow is and it isn't as I mentioned before. but that's not the issue, 30m is still too deep for anyone to work with the ground not to mention it is in the middle of the ocean so you have to bring everything to the area and that's not the main issue, the main issue here is the biodiversity of the area and no one will let you miss with it, pressure will come from every side. for me a floating Island is the best option right now.

Right Bitcoin cannot afford anything more than dozens of millions of $ or at most a couple of hundreds on such a project considering the current market cap, so it's not happening anytime soon, on the other hand if it reachs 10k $ per btc (which is unlikely but not impossible) it will become a real possibility

I think a floating bitcoin island is our best option. We can place it on international waters and we don't have to think about deepness. I think the price would be also be alot cheaper and we can built it right away. I think floating bitcoin island is closer to reality than a permanent bitcoin island.

No. This thread is dedicated for a permanent island, not a floating island. You are welcome to start another thread if you are interested in the project. As far as I know, it is impossible to create a continuous floating structure stretching for 10 sq.kms.

I'm pretty sure it says, bitcoin island in international waters no mention of the type of the island if you did specify such a thing no one would have proposed from the beginning -.-(remember it's a theoretical discussion no more no less )..... and it is as impossible to build a 10sq km island as it is with building an fixed island in international waters in fact is is technically more challenging to build a non floating island in the open seas conditions

also according to the the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea the island needs to be a minimum of 200 nautical miles away from any other administrated land if you want to create your own island which makes everything complex including the zone you've mentioned :(

Saya de Malha is located in the International waters, i.e 200 nautical miles away from any other administrated land.

Not all of it I think, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't like 180 miles away from some Maurice island (part of it of course as the thing is huge), and some part is considered as a free trade zone by some country I've seen these informations somewhere, also according to the first map you've posted the Saya de Malha is included in the light blue zone or at least a big portion of it isn't, I'll post them later once I'll find the sources

No country recognizes the Saya de Malha as a part of the Mauritius. Also, Mauritius itself has almost rescinded their claim there. So we can safely say that 100% of Saya de Malha is located within the international waters.

+1.

We don't want any floating ones. We want a permanent artificial island.

That was the original plan, and we are proceeding with it. Legality of the project seems to be in the Grey Zone, as far as I am concerned. The UN will ignore it, as long as the project is small. So a 10 sq.km island is going to be OK in Saya de Malha. But we will not get any Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ), as the island is a man-built one.  ;D

any updates on the project?

I'm not sure if it's an actual project people are working on.

bryant.coleman seems pretty serious about it

I'v been following the thread since it started..

A project could rise out of this, if the people are serious enough.

Once Bitcoin reaches 10k , this might happen as many people will try to avoid taxes and other repercussions .

The price of Bitcoin isn't really that important. It needs a lot of funding, doesn't matter in which currency.

But if bitcoin price drops to under 10 , do you think people will still be interested in such thing .

well it has some kind of importance, since the market cap will be big enough for such a project, and I agree, on the scale we are talking it is at least a couple of dozen billions of $ and even more since we are talking about international waters (relatively long distance and deepness which makes thing really complicated)

You do realize that that won't happen right? There is no reason for it to devalue anymore, we have almost reached the bottom. I don't worry about the price at all.

I am not saying it will happen but argument is about if it happens , even then could  this project generate such a public  interest ?

The price of Bitcoin is really important. Because we will be depending on the Bitcoins for most of the funding. Anyway... there is plenty of time. The project is expected to start by 2018... that is four years from now. By that time BTC will be in five digits (hopefully).  ;D

Why in 2018?