Bitcoin Forum

Its like everywhere Miners are dumping their ASICS, on sale pretty much everywhere, i wonder why  ::)


Discuss

Well they must be getting bought by other miners then, how else do you explain the exponential graph?

http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-small-lin.png

A lot of people are willing to buy miners at a cost yielding a negative ROI. There are also a lot of people who are doing that math and finding it more prudent to sell to them than mine.

The 1, 2, 3 TH machine pre-order dump is underway.

mega dump, on sale at a discount everywhere

is that even sustainable, how much more can you compensate future negative ROI buying more worthless asics with your past profits.

its like the whole mining game is about to collapse, if not now soon enough

Another huge sign about the upcoming collapse of Bitcoin price. I´m a bit worried.

Why would less mining result in lower bitcoin prices?  ???

Yeah that makes sense. I wonder if miners are selling older machines that will never see a +ve ROI (cutting their losses), or selling newer machines for a profit (making money on early pre-orders). I also wonder if some are upgrading their machines to newer models?


Well the graph shows that the network speed is increasing exponentially, so no, the whole mining game won't collapse. What will happen eventually (as has been discussed a lot) is that some miners with higher costs will drop out, slowing/reversing difficulty, until an equilibrium is reached.

How is it going to lower prices? Mining just slows the creation of new bitcoin...the usefulness of it and the short supply is what gives it is market value...I'd imagine it would rise since they'd be more scarce.

Plus, given the exponential rate of computing power, eventually the machines will be better equipped to mine in a more productive manner.

And surely some miner out there has managed to figure out how to slash the overall expense by going solar...  ???

Not correct.  The bitcoin network self-adjusts to keep the creation of new bitcoin on schedule.  From an investor's point of view, the creation of new bitcoin has a known, tightly self-regulated rate of creation.

They are on sale maybe, but hardly dumping. They are still sold at impossible-to-breakeven price. If they are selling 1TH/s machines for say 0.1 btc, that will be dumping  :D

new generations that are higher hashrate and less power use are on the market. and unlike GPU's which they switched over to scrypt coins.. the old gen ASICS get to a point of being useless. so the last ditch attempt to make money is to sell old tech

same applies for gamer's after a while its time to update your gaming machine. at one point playstation 3 was the most sought after item, everyone wanted one but there were not enough to go around. now everyone is buying the new playstation and throwing thier old console onto ebay, cheaper (bt not too cheap to be classed as 'dumping')

Maybe some links to everywhere.

Am sure there are a few, its a dynamic industry,
but hey at least try to back up your claim with some evidence, Otherwise its just....


Thud, Thud Thud Thud

That's technically not correct either. On average 25 bitcoins are created every 10 minutes however that doesn't mean we can't find 5 blocks in 5 minutes adding 125 bitcoins in 5 minutes (Unlikely but possible). It's designed that on average it should be close to 10 minutes but that's not always true. To call it tightly regulated is a bit of an overstatement - it can be a lot quicker or a lot slower.

haha yeah. Most miners never do any math and speculate with a rising BTC price to pay for the hardware. When in fact just buying BTC would yield a better ROI overall.

Well, and if the BTC price does not appreciate, they wonder, why the difficulty keeps rising. LOL

Which part?

Compared to the decision making process behind a sovereign centralized bank currency, the rate of creation of bitcoin is much more known and tightly regulated than the creation of USD, for example.

The winter is over in the northern hemisphere. We don't need heaters anymore, so we sell them.

Not correct.. well partly correct, yes it does self adjust...  after 2016 blocks have been mined, ie, a very long time.  To pretend that the centralization of hashing that is going on, like how the "unknown" petahash has grown about 40% just in the last month, .. you know. KNC's solo mining...  Isn't a big problem? ..  Is really bad and could be catastrophic to the network if/when one of these giant powers were to go down, power loss, whatever.  We've already seen a few occasions where there have been whole days of petahash dropping a bit and block finds were longer than usual throughout those days..

We need to be open and honest about it, perhaps there's a way for mining to still be competitive while helping the network without it becoming just a few huge centralized powers of hash, but I feel that boat has sailed because of skewed information like you and others keeps propagating..

For the record, I've done over a 100 tx with BTC and have yet to have one tx only take 60 minutes for 6 full confirmations, and I always pay fees, there's always a 20-40 min. block in there somewhere... just saying..

As much as I've fallen in love with this forum and have gotten maybe 13 hours sleep in 3 days, might I just say that yall are about the nit pickiest buncha people I've ever seen...must yall seriously debate half a dozen pages over a word?

I mean really...


(see ya on page 112)  ;D ::)

Guys it's going to be game over soon. I just read an article explaining how bitcoin is going to reach negative values and bagholders are going to have to pay people to take bitcoins off their hands: http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/talking-numbers/this-could-be-the-end-of-the-bitcoin-era-220746326.html

First people were dumping their ASICs and now this. Oh what shall we do?  :o

On a more serious note, it's no surprise that next-gen mining hardware will make the previous generation obsolete. Some of those people buying these unprofitable ASICs probably don't pay for electricity, and may yet see an ROI.

bitcoin is going nowhere, it's literally the new paradigm, but 99.999999% of people just *dont get it*... yet

Let me guess, you were shouting things like that, since BTC was 1$?

They dumping the old crappy equipment. Newer equipment is all sold out. Mining will be fine. New equipment is just going to get cheaper. If a bitcoin is worth something people are going to still mine plus bitcoins are not the only cryptocoin that you can mine with asics...there are a lot of other profitable sha256 based coins.

Eh,  I'll likely keep my miners going even with a small negative roi.  How many of us leave lights on, or TV's plugged in at night.  Far more power is wasted in your house by Phantom Energy Loss.  I have no problem helping keep the network going smooth.

... when my miner arrives tomorrow ... :)

wow... just watched the video.  some notable quotes: "bitcoins can be created indiscriminately by the (bitcoin)community"  and "bitcoins may be -$100 someday"  ??? :D 8)

Sold my cubes at low USD (eBay) prices and bought BTC and picked up a bunch of Antminers (ninja tech). Sell low buy low, and there's still a spread on selling through eBay but buying more direct sources with BTC. In the end, mining is a long-term play and selling equipment low will just help with claiming losses anyways. You might see selling, but lots of those sellers might be buying with the proceeds from sales... I'm psyched, got out of my high-heat units before summer, got more revenues a, less heat and less power consumption, essentially exchanged through selling.


"Profitability" only matters if buying with BTC, the unit should be able to mine back more BTC than it cost. Everyone makes this mistake though- when a unit is purchased with USD the profitability is based entirely on a speculative value of Bitcoin. In fact, now that the IRS wants everything recorded in terms of USD even the BTC purchases are measured in terms of dollars. You cannot measure profitability accurately in any way with something like BTC, the further out you forecast the less accurate it will be. I have no idea why people constantly measure this shit based on present exchange values, we are speculating, the whole point is the uncertainty is priced in and nobody knows what units will end up profitable.

:D :D ;D :-X

You both didn't notice that it's dated April 1st.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/43180543.jpg]

Where's my towel?

There definitely has been a clamor to sell at "low" prices with the intent to buy at "lower" prices. But yes, in the end, mining is a long-term play and the sale of equipment is a factor is making ROI. Now it's a matter of consolidating equipment to address many factors that are upcoming in the next few months (a new generation of ASICs, the impending summer months, and speculation on the BTC conversion rate).

Because now the profitability with asics is not good.

Now is mining factor about 3.5 cent/Gh at 24h,
What  will happen when the drops below 1 cent/Gh at 24h ?

I warned 17.dec 2013 year: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=374935.msg4014576#msg4014576

people make more btc = more likely to sell it at a lower price
people make less btc = more likely to sell it at a higher price

it's simply economics folks!    :D

They will become heaters in Nordic country

:D

I had 3 Block Erupter Cubes running through February and March and they kept my large living room at about 72 degrees consistently. My heater never kicked on.

I bought the three off Ebay for $1040.00. I sold them for $795. I made .24BTC. I paid ebay 10% of the $795.
-1040+795-79+(.24*450current BTC= -216.00

Not Profitable at current BTC price!

BTC was around $800 I think. If I bought 1.25BTC for $1000, I would be underwater $440.

Less Profitable at current BTC price!


It's a gamble either way

Yes there is offloading of older asics going on out there.  I let go of my avalon batch 2 finally.  Thats all profit :)

Or Canada ...

Miners are dumping their asics on daily basis the number of asics on sale is significantly on the rise.

Bitcoin mining is collapsing . there will only be few data centers left it will be so centralized might as well rename bitcoin to Bitripple in the near future.

My kingdom for a mining company that doesn't do pre-orders.

Ships immediately.

I know, i know.   You can stop laughing.

You actually think the ones buying the old generation of used hardware are data centers? Or did I just feed a troll?

http://blubberisland.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/explodinghead1.jpg

How mining really works (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin#Mining)

Can the bitcoin price stay low for a while to discourage new ASIC investment PLEASE and let us get good use of our current hardware?  Sorry for all you nerds who bought BTC at $800, but some of us have bought a crapton of mining equipment back when the diff was ~2Billion.

I dream of a 5% difficulty increase in a cycle in April :) hahaha.

Is that the most interesting miner in the World?
Let's ask him some questions.  :P

I'll take your bitcoins off your hands for free. Just send them to the address in my sig, and I promise I wont send you a disposal bill.

Both #7 and #8 wrong. They are selling 400 Gh/s units because theyre expecting delivery of 1,2 and 4 Thash ones.
That is not less mining. Is waaaay more mining.
And for all that power to be profitable, someone will be aware that at current prices its absurd to fork $5000 on some ASIC to mine 7 or 8 BTCs and resell it later for $999. He will just buy 12 BTCs and save on power, maintenance, et al.
At least, thats how i see it.

Sure. ::)

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/43933779.jpg

But with heating costs so high this winter ($200+/mo)... maybe you DID make a profit :)

I warned at time:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=400001.0

I wonder when the growth of the hashrate starts to relax. This is amazing. For one year and more we get a growth of about 20% per week (or even more. per difficulty adjustment). Sure, the price of mining hardware just decreased by a few factors in just a year and the price is much higher. But this is just great! ASICs is the best thing that could happen to Bitcoin!

Fact is: You can use ASCIs only for Bitcoin mining and the cost of running them is small compared to the buying price. So if the hardware is out there, a decrease in difficulty is improbable. Non-Asic-Coins don't have that advantage.

The network would become less secure. But I really don't think that it would matter significantly. Even 1/10 of the current hashrate could be considered as secure.

What's bicoin?  Is that a new sexually ambiguous Alt coin?   :P

bicoin?
Finally a coin that knows how to handle almost any situation?  ???
Perhaps he ment bipolar coin.

I know why the pole's ice will be melting away...

Miners are just trading in their equipment for newer equipment. I've got some 30ghs cubes that I'll be selling soon as well.

for all of you that are scared of bitcoin ending your wrong! the us debt will be a 18 tr by the end of the year.  we have dug ourselves in a hole we can never get out of. The people will turn to something to keep trade going. I believe it will be the crypto universe. hold out for a bit longer. The us dollar is a pile of shit. The Chinese see and the Russian also see it. Don't give up!

Bitcoin can not jump without MtGox !

You are spreading nonsense.

Miners DUMPING their ASICs
I would like to see photos of miners dumping/throwing their ASICs out a window.
Do you have any?

I'm going to start scouring the landfills for old KNC Saturns and Jupiters!   :P

Dumpster diving for pizzas and ASICs.......?
High-tech bums are getting rich while you sit and work all day.   :P

Now I have a picture of a bum burning waste to heat a steam engine that powers hundreds of asic miners in my head....

thanks

Very creative idea.
Too much carbon from the burning waste, but still interesting.

Another great troll thread.
What a wonderful world?

I did  :)

I put my 2011 ~ 2012 BTC into a 1.5kW solar system. Now my modest rig, only a Jally and some GPUs as the solar array was not cheap, continues to mine. With the advent of ASICs, I have an abudnace of power but not enough $$$ for more mining rigs. :(

If you have some ASICs just collecting dust, msg me...

Just curious, are you able to sell power back to the electric grid?   If so, is it more economical to mine with old equipment than to sell your power back to the grid?

Where are these sales..

Alot people pre-ordered ASIC and now the company are shipping their ASIC due to BTC price drop :)

1. Buy asics

2. Mine with it

3. Cash out some

4. Sell asics

5. Buy more coins with proceeds

lol

You must be smart.  I used proceeds to buy more equipment to try and stay ahead in the mining race...:-P !

I don't think it's a wise decision buy rig now

months ahead on that refund train

Can anyone explain to me why should the market care about difficulty.    Does it affect the product or is it just a mining problem.     Does BTC get more secure each time the diff rises or is this all like one of those tractor pulls
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8QTprCYgD8

It's simple really with the new Scrypt ASIC coming out. It's more profitable to mine Scrypt coins and trade them for BTC or hope that one of the fly by night coins get adopted   

Many turned to Scrypt and soon there will be ASICs available too. Very soon  ;)

Still, no one has answered where they are dumping their ASICs?

I don't think there is a mass dump but some people have posted on here that they have sold, so where did you sell?

I want buy second hand (cheap) ASICs and I'm completely unimpressed with what I'm seeing on ebay.

You can look to the Goods:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=75.0

or Group Buys section:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=137.0


There's also https://cryptothrift.com/

Dumping their gear at... OVER THE PRICE OF WHAT THEY BOUGHT IT AT...

......................  This is not dumping................ LMAO.

I know right?

OP seems to think that's a bad thing or bearish thing.

The higher the difficulty, the ASIC will generate less bitcoin for you.

The higher the difficulty (total network hashrate), it will be harder for someone to control >50% hashrate to launch a 51% attack.