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Title: Concerns about censorship Post by: SupaDupaJenkins on January 07, 2012, 09:07:24 AM Who do I talk to about getting Diablo banned? Editing posts and being sexually suggestive stating I'm a homosexual and then deleting my posts and other people's posts because they are saying FACTS isn't that against the rules? How is it fair to censor people on a forum based around a currency of freedom of choice..
Title: Re: [349 GH] Eligius pool: ~0Fee SMPPS, no reg, RollNtime, hop OK, BTC NMC merged! Post by: DiabloD3 on January 07, 2012, 10:37:47 AM Jenkins, you do realize reporting posts reports them to me right?
Go bug some other forum. Or, alternatively, I can have theymos ban you. Your choice. Title: Re: [349 GH] Eligius pool: ~0Fee SMPPS, no reg, RollNtime, hop OK, BTC NMC merged! Post by: DiabloD3 on January 07, 2012, 08:55:39 PM I've requested that Jenkins should be banned, so it is now only a matter of time.
Title: Re: [349 GH] Eligius pool: ~0Fee SMPPS, no reg, RollNtime, hop OK, BTC NMC merged! Post by: bitlane on January 07, 2012, 09:00:49 PM I've requested that Jenkins should be banned, so it is now only a matter of time. There's no point in everyone fighting amongst themslves. You have to atleast try and understand the frustration that he is feeling....and a back-and-forth of 'feeding the fire' is not doing either party any good. As I said a few posts ago, I would like to keep the topic of Luke's Pool Resource misuse alive and on topic, to keep it alive that is. We all don't need to argue or fight with each other. Title: Re: [349 GH] Eligius pool: ~0Fee SMPPS, no reg, RollNtime, hop OK, BTC NMC merged! Post by: imsaguy on January 07, 2012, 09:05:48 PM I've requested that Jenkins should be banned, so it is now only a matter of time. There's no point in everyone fighting amongst themslves. You have to atleast try and understand the frustration that he is feeling....and a back-and-forth of 'feeding the fire' is not doing either party any good. As I said a few posts ago, I would like to keep the topic of Luke's Pool Resource misuse alive and on topic, to keep it alive that is. We all don't need to argue or fight with each other. bitlane is just another jenkins clone, ignore him. Title: Re: [349 GH] Eligius pool: ~0Fee SMPPS, no reg, RollNtime, hop OK, BTC+NMC merged! Post by: sadpandatech on January 08, 2012, 03:05:48 AM BAN ME YOU FUCKIN NAZI FAGGOT GO FOR IT! YOU CAN BURN IN FUCKIN HELL FOR ALL I CARE DIABLO GO SUPPORT SOPA YOU FUCKING DOUCHE AND GO DIE IN A FUCKIN FIRE! ban worthy? You mad bro? Jenkins bro... I've not had to add one person to ignore. Because I figure if someone is speaking openly then they deserve to be read. But jeez man. I looked over at that lil button for the first time tonight. Not that you care about me, but I really would rather not have anyone at all on that stupid list. :/ Title: Re: Concerns about Diablo and censorship Post by: theymos on January 08, 2012, 07:38:45 AM No one gets banned just for complaining about moderation. Sometimes people get banned for repeatedly complaining about moderation in a thread that has nothing to do with moderation, as this is blatantly off-topic. SupaDupaJenkins was banned for posting walls of spam.
If DiabloD3 or any other mod is doing something wrong, start a thread here in Meta and cite specific examples. I can undo anything that a non-admin moderator does. If your Meta post is deleted, PM me. Only admins can ban people. Pointing out what kind of human being Luke actually is, and in particular exposing his fascist views on people who don't share his bronze age superstitions to people before they consider contributing to his pool (and therefore to his economic well-being) has always seemed to me a fairly on-topic subject. This sounds off-topic. Attacking the person behind an argument is off-topic when the thread is not really about that person. This kind of thing might be on-topic in a general topic about Eligius, though. Unfortunately, not so to the mods who systematically remove posts that simply present factual information about the guy (e.g. his IRC posts). Post this stuff in a new topic in Off-topic and I very much doubt that it will be deleted. It's not strongly related to mining, so it might not be safe to put it in the mining section. (I don't read that section at all, and I don't know what criteria DiabloD3 uses to determine whether something belongs in the section.) Title: Re: Concerns about Diablo and censorship Post by: theymos on January 08, 2012, 08:00:25 AM And from what I have seen going on here in the last few days I very much doubt that is true.. If it is deleted from there, complain about it in a new thread here in Meta. Title: Re: Concerns about Diablo and censorship Post by: Maged on January 08, 2012, 08:58:16 AM Just so people know what this is it is a thread some mod made to take posts from different threads and put them in one place. I did it to save your asses. If I didn't split this off, you all would have kept this going and gotten yourselves banned.Unfortunately, not so to the mods who systematically remove posts that simply present factual information about the guy (e.g. his IRC posts). Post this stuff in a new topic in Off-topic and I very much doubt that it will be deleted. And from what I have seen going on here in the last few days I very much doubt that is true.. Title: Re: Concerns about Diablo and censorship Post by: Maged on January 08, 2012, 09:16:44 AM I don't have to read anything thing into to it I already know what your fellow mods are up to and it is just plain fucking disgusting that it is allowed to continue to happen. It's one mod. And no, I don't like it either. The fact that this is the third complaint this month is just disgusting. My only consolation is that, at least 90% of the time, it hasn't been an issue. That being said, I hate drama, so I won't make it my mission to do anything about it. My concerns are well-known.Title: Re: Concerns about Diablo and censorship Post by: theymos on January 08, 2012, 04:39:34 PM I can take it that since the admin/mods deleted my posts in an on topic thread that they support luke and his immoral ungodly actions? Why is this forum, something that I support with bitcoins weekly doing this? luke is an asshole, he abused his power and broke trust, but this forum broke mine. Why were my posts censored??? WTF is this shit? I bitched about rogue mods before and guess who it is again... yeah ban me you cock sucker. Censor my ass.. This was deleted and people sometimes get banned for posting this kind of thing because it is obviously off-topic. Discussion of moderation clearly doesn't belong in a topic called "[349 GH] Eligius pool: ~0Fee SMPPS, no reg, RollNtime, hop OK, BTC+NMC merged!". You need to create a new topic about your concerns so that you don't ruin the existing topic. Title: Re: Concerns about Diablo and censorship Post by: theymos on January 08, 2012, 06:01:00 PM What posts has DiabloD3 deleted that should not have been deleted? What posts of Luke-Jr's have not been deleted that should have been deleted?
Title: Re: Concerns about Diablo and censorship Post by: Maged on January 08, 2012, 07:47:33 PM You're overreacting and not keeping a level head. We do the things we do to make the forum more readable. In fact, by complaining about moderation in the Eligius thread, you quite successfully changed the topic at hand from what was REALLY important (Luke abusing his pool's power) to something extremely trivial. Remind me to do that in the future when I do something extremely stupid, because apparently it works. We're not your enemy - Luke is. In my opinion as a user here, he SHOULD be banned and have his pool blacklisted by the forum, but as a moderator I have to keep my opinion out of things.
@Goat, thanks to me, you made a bunch of money. I hope you remember that. Title: Re: Concerns about Diablo and censorship Post by: grue on January 08, 2012, 08:17:28 PM so is there a reason why diablo is still staff? has been getting in trouble at least once a month, and the only thing he does is post in his "want legit 7970 testing?", and randomly banning users.
Title: Re: Concerns about Diablo and censorship Post by: rjk on January 08, 2012, 09:02:08 PM You're overreacting and not keeping a level head. We do the things we do to make the forum more readable. In fact, by complaining about moderation in the Eligius thread, you quite successfully changed the topic at hand from what was REALLY important (Luke abusing his pool's power) to something extremely trivial. Remind me to do that in the future when I do something extremely stupid, because apparently it works. We're not your enemy - Luke is. In my opinion as a user here, he SHOULD be banned and have his pool blacklisted by the forum, but as a moderator I have to keep my opinion out of things. It's a shame that people don't seem to realize this, and instead bitch and moan when there is the slightest hint of someone disagreeing with their perfect opinion.I might also note that while Bitcoin itself is decentralized and P2P etc etc, this forum is not, and there are good reasons for that. If you want a decentralized/P2P forum, be my guest - I believe there already is one running on Diaspora. Title: Re: Concerns about Diablo and censorship Post by: BadBear on January 08, 2012, 09:12:15 PM What a mess. Reminds me why I stay out of mining and alt currencies.
so is there a reason why diablo is still staff? has been getting in trouble at least once a month, and the only thing he does is post in his "want legit 7970 testing?", and randomly banning users. Just a note, he can't ban anyone, he puts in requests which only an admin (usually theymos) can approve. And theymos is as close to unbiased as you will get since he doesn't participate in the mining section. Title: Re: Concerns about Diablo and censorship Post by: ineededausername on January 08, 2012, 09:58:21 PM Luke is. In my opinion as a user here, he SHOULD be banned and have his pool blacklisted by the forum Glad to see someone else hates his homophobic, Bible-thumping, market-cornering, self-righteous ass. Title: Re: Concerns about Diablo and censorship Post by: grue on January 08, 2012, 10:41:37 PM Luke is. In my opinion as a user here, he SHOULD be banned and have his pool blacklisted by the forum Glad to see someone else hates his homophobic, Bible-thumping, market-cornering, self-righteous ass. Title: Re: Concerns about Diablo and censorship Post by: rjk on January 08, 2012, 10:44:59 PM Luke is. In my opinion as a user here, he SHOULD be banned and have his pool blacklisted by the forum Glad to see someone else hates his homophobic, Bible-thumping, market-cornering, self-righteous ass. Title: Re: Concerns about Diablo and censorship Post by: theymos on January 08, 2012, 11:13:39 PM Yeah play this stupid game eh? Your the one in the position to know the dirty dealing going on here and unlike you people I am not for censorship in any form. And this response here tells me you are fully in support of their actions if not in on it yourself this is why they get to continue on. You hypocrites should remember this next time someone does it to btc/this forum like it has happened when they decided to DDOS you and you start with your crocodile tears of but why us, we the only ones allowed to do it to anyone we want, but not have it one to us. The bitcoin project of freedom and openness yeah right sell that crock of shit to someone who is buying and that is not me... I'm aware of the Eligius controversy, but I haven't seen DiabloD3 do anything wrong in the matter. I don't read the mining section. If he did do something wrong, then someone needs to tell me exactly what he did so I can investigate it. I'm not going to do anything in response to vague complaints of "dirty dealing". Even if we say that Luke scammed all Eligius pool members by attacking alt chains (which I would disagree with), then he would still not be banned because scammers are not banned from this forum. Title: Re: Concerns about Diablo and censorship Post by: terrytibbs on January 09, 2012, 12:24:35 AM Slap dat scammer tag on him so that he can join the discussion in the scammer subforum.
Title: Re: Concerns about Diablo and censorship Post by: BadBear on January 09, 2012, 12:28:33 AM Even if we say that Luke scammed all Eligius pool members by attacking alt chains (which I would disagree with), then he would still not be banned because scammers are not banned from this forum. He didn't scam them in that they didn't lose anything. However, he abused their trust. If someone borrowed my car, went and robbed a bank with it and then returned the car unscathed the next day, I would not have suffered any financial loss. I still would: - want to know about it - feel extremely displeased - never trust that person again In other words: there was no scam, but there was most definitely wrongdoing. Right, but that isn't the issue here. There's other threads for that, this thread is about abuses of moderation during all this. Someone needs to point it out, there a lot of accusations/hyperbolic rants but no links/quotes/screens/nada anywhere. Title: Re: Concerns about Diablo and censorship Post by: BadBear on January 09, 2012, 01:40:30 AM You are really asking us to link to censored/deleted posts? You don't believe what I am saying? Well... lol! I included quotes in there for a reason, if you can recall what/where the post was, or even just the general message of the post I'm sure it would help. I was also under the impression this was about more than just deletion of posts, with all the talk of dirty dealings and whatnot. Like Maged said earlier, some people may be overreacting, and the chaos is causing the real message to be lost. Title: Re: Concerns about Diablo and censorship Post by: BadBear on January 09, 2012, 02:12:26 AM My issue has only been about censorship and trying to find out the forums policy on it. I have told you what threads and what posts were deleted but no, I do not have screen shots and no I can't link you... I also still have the message from Maged about me being banned for "trolling" in the BFL thread. Anyway, you could end a lot of this by just posting the forums policy on censorship so we know. My posts in the BFL were clearly on topic. My posts in the thread that got deleted where clearly on topic. The post that got deleted in Diablos thread was not on topic, (It was just asking why the thread was stickied) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=14356.msg194511#msg194511 Quote All replies must respond to the topic's original post in some way, even if they are replying to an on-topic reply. If your reply has nothing to do with the topic post, either add some content that is relevant or create a new topic. If you want to bring up some history with you and Maged you should make another thread so it can be properly discussed, this thread is about Diablo and censorship in the Eligius matter, adding this here will just complicate matters. Theymos will have to look into the deleted posts. The posts in diablos thread was unnecessary after it was unstickied, since there was a thread on it already in meta. Title: Re: Concerns about Diablo and censorship Post by: BadBear on January 09, 2012, 02:36:40 AM I understand about the post in the Diablo thread being deleted. However read https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=57123.msg679045#msg679045 and https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=57123.msg680512#msg680512 My first post in this thread is not even about Diablo so why is it even here??? If this thread is only about Diablo then you need to move that post again... For https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=57123.msg679045#msg679045 Theymos doesn't like talk about moderation in the thread that's being moderated. A link to a thread in meta would be more appropriate, to keep the two subjects separated and easy to read. As it is reading back through the eligius thread and the others is already kind of confusing. Quote Just so people know what this is it is a thread some mod made to take posts from different threads and put them in one place. Diablo is not the only person who is being accused of censorship or supporting questionable activity. He is not even the main person behind the backlash to the censorship. The title of this thread is clearly misleading... This is just too vague. And I'm not sure why it's here either if it's not about Diablo. See what a mess off topic stuff creates? ;) Title: Re: Concerns about censorship Post by: Maged on January 09, 2012, 02:48:23 AM Fine, I renamed the thread to more match what the split topic was about, since I was the one that named this thread in the first place.
As for your complaints about potentially being banned, that was over excessive trolling, not posting off-topic. However, you proved that you weren't trolling after all, so the issue solved itself. Keep in mind, at the time, you were massively derailing a topic and bringing up points that had already been discussed. Had I complained to theymos instead of talking with you at the time, you would likely have been banned for a few days. Title: Re: Concerns about censorship Post by: dree12 on January 09, 2012, 03:05:32 AM As the thread is now renamed, I believe this post is now on-topic.
The Bitcointalk forums were not designed to overcome censorship. To maintain a level of civility, I believe that there are scenarios where misbehaving users, for example Atlas, are banned from talking. However, the level of free speech maintained varies greatly between moderators. It can be concluded that the forum does not have a standard censorship level. While I am not suggesting a "rate a mod" system, the input of forum users should be taken into account. A mod which receives a large amount of critisism should be given a warning by the higher mods or administrators to act more in line with the moderating standard. Some mods, which will not be named, have suffered a greater amount of controversy than other mods. It is my belief that these mods should be instructed by the higher mods. To further increase the utility of such a solution, the forum should gain a more detailed "rules" document. Currently, one stickied post in fact states that the forum's only rule is to act in best judgement. This rule is ambuigious and insufficiently detailed. With the addition of a standard, both moderators and users would be able to act better in their best judgement. Title: Re: Concerns about Diablo and censorship Post by: theymos on January 09, 2012, 03:10:31 AM My issue has only been about censorship and trying to find out the forums policy on it. I strive to allow as much freedom as possible. It should be possible to express any idea as long as the idea will not get the forum in trouble and you express the idea using proper categorization, etc. Habitual trolls are not welcome because they disrupt real discussion. Here are the recommendations (not policy) that I wrote for mods regarding trolls: Trolls should be banned because they disrupt serious discussion. Identifying trolls is often difficult, however. I like to think in terms of "troll score": the higher the troll score, the more likely it is that a person is a troll. Examples of things that affect troll score: - Having crazy positions (racism, etc.): large increase - Posting long, well-reasoned posts: large decrease - High posts-to-time-online ratio: small increase - Been around for a long time: moderate decrease - Posting many images: mild increase - Much discussion of illegal sites: very mild increase - Requires more moderation than is typical: moderate increase - Using vulgarity, insults, or memes excessively: mild increase - Posting topics with undescriptive titles: mild increase - Seems disdainful of the Bitcoin community in general: mild increase - Bumping old posts a lot: mild increase - Giving people bad advice: mild increase - Poor spelling/grammar: slight increase - Criticizing moderation: moderate increase - Complaining about anything: small increase - Uses ad hominem attacks with unusual frequency: moderate increase - Lying: moderate increase - Inconsistent positions: moderate increase - Posting the same arguments over and over again without bothering to respond to arguments against them: moderate increase - Posting topics that will obviously evoke emotional responses: slight increase - Posting replies that are themselves on-topic but which will obviously tend to bring the discussion off-topic: moderate increase - Bumping old threads with replies that are not really worthwhile: moderate increase None of these things alone warrant a warning, but when they occur habitually or when someone does many of them, they indicate that the poster is a troll. Warn people who are doing many trollish things. Tell me if that doesn't help. Title: Re: Concerns about Diablo and censorship Post by: grue on January 09, 2012, 03:36:22 AM - Criticizing moderation: moderate increase LOL- Uses ad hominem attacks with unusual frequency: moderate increase - Lying: moderate increase - Inconsistent positions: moderate increase so questioning a moderator is about the same as lying or ad hominem attacks? Title: Re: Concerns about censorship Post by: Maged on January 09, 2012, 03:48:58 AM I guess thank you for asking (well you did not really ask...) me first if I was serious or a troll before you banned me... Wait... you were banned? That had nothing to do with me. I never submitted your name for a ban review, nor did I ever mention anything to theymos directly.Title: Re: Concerns about Diablo and censorship Post by: tysat on January 09, 2012, 04:22:58 AM - Criticizing moderation: moderate increase LOL- Uses ad hominem attacks with unusual frequency: moderate increase - Lying: moderate increase - Inconsistent positions: moderate increase so questioning a moderator is about the same as lying or ad hominem attacks? The questioning a mod things means if you're going against a mod when they're clearly right, or get pissed (and start spamming for 2 hours) because you were doing something stupid and got moderated for it. Title: Re: Concerns about Diablo and censorship Post by: terrytibbs on January 09, 2012, 05:53:41 AM - Criticizing moderation: moderate increase LOL- Uses ad hominem attacks with unusual frequency: moderate increase - Lying: moderate increase - Inconsistent positions: moderate increase so questioning a moderator is about the same as lying or ad hominem attacks? The questioning a mod things means if you're going against a mod when they're clearly right, or get pissed (and start spamming for 2 hours) because you were doing something stupid and got moderated for it. Title: Re: Concerns about Diablo and censorship Post by: BadBear on January 09, 2012, 07:28:34 AM Edit: I now see you are "staff" and not a "mod". I guess i should not respond to you then as this might be off topic. You should reread the thread and find out what was going on before you start telling us how to act. I can see why Maged thought you were trolling, if this is how you converse with people ;) Title: Re: Concerns about censorship Post by: Maged on January 10, 2012, 06:14:35 PM Edit: I would like to request a formal scammer investigation be opened usually conducted by Maged as I have seen it before on here. I would do that, but since theymos and most of the other mods disagree that Luke scammed his users, the case was closed before it even started.My opinion on the matter, however, is already well-known. |