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i am a china miner, i can tell all of you,many peopel use fgpa mining X11 coin in china.
that's why gpu miner can't get a good profitability for mining X11 coin.
the X11 COIN can't prevent fpga or asic.
X11 has been cracked by fpga at this time.
so it's not fair for gpu miner.
we must ban x11 coin

new update:
x11 coin can be mined by  Scrypt ASIC at this time.that's same to maxcoin.maxcon can be mined by AntMiner
http://i62.tinypic.com/2n7qwbl.jpg
many fpge or Scrypt ASIC are mining x11,not gpu miner,for example DARKCOIN,28G NET HASH are very hard to believe

same option
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=602444.0

just mine when the diff is low, and you can compete with asic/fgpa, if you arrive before them

mining for 24/7 is so 2011

but like script-n or script- jane is not easy to use fpga or asic to mine at this time.
only x11 are very easy to use fpga mining at this time.
because x11 has been cracked by many people

yeah i know x11 is even more easy for asic to get in, is the less asic resistant algo out there

but besides this, the point is to arrive before the others thus exploiting the low diff

 ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

I tend to believe this guy.

X11 has been sketchy from the start.

yup like groeslt coin, fpga are back on track!

I thought it would take a little longer for FPGA.

Is there any proof that people have them?

Lol, anyone who believes this is close to brain dead. Cost involved Into designing is too significant to even THINK about building an fpga/asic for an algo at such infancy.

Also, I find it funny how in recent months, starting any post with "I am china" seems to invoke confidence when trying to spread FUD about a subject.

lumping both terms in one sentence is dumb.
learn what FPGA stands for..
you don't design fuck all smart guy.. the hardware is already made lol

I see someone has just ordered a nice amount of scrypt asics and wants us to mine scrypt instead of a asic-proof algo.

You are NOT entitled to determine what are people that believe or not believe in the OP!

Instead of an uninformed reply, how about using use Chrome (with translation) to browse Chinese forums?

+1 However, don't know why they worry, there are still plenty of scrypt coin being released (almost everyday)
or is this (again) one of those numerous threads against (or for) darkcoin ?

CPU->GPU->FPGA->ASIC

The hardware order that a coin can be mined eventually.

A FPGA is better than an ASIC in regards that it can be reprogrammed. An ASIC is programmed to do just one thing only. ASIC's generally are quicker and I wouldn't doubt someone having a working FPGA programmed for X11.

don't doubt either... however nobody so far asked for the ban of scrypt coin  ;D

Care to show some kind of proof supporting your statement?

The fact that its almost not profitable to mine coins like DRK with GPU should sound an alarm.

sometimes mine x11 coin has very low profitability by gpu miner,but it also has very high net hash

How about groestl and skein? X11 contains them.

Where can buy FPGA miner? I am interested.

You won't be able to buy even if such fpga exists until they mine the shit out of x11 .

So which algo do you guys recommand for GPU-miners?Or gpu-miners should dump their coins before asics or fpga coming out instead of keeping the coins.

It depends on the price of electricity. For many european countries DRK is the most profitable coin (or, the least loss-incuring coin) due to high electric prices.

An scrypt asic will do scrypt, not X11.

lmao.
op do u know 3MH with X11 nearly equals 1MH Scrypt?

Profitability of X11 coins is pretty bad, so can I believe that.

You believe what exactly? That scrypt asics do x11 coins? This is impossible. ASICs are designed to do something specific. Scrypt asics are designed to do scrypt, not x11.

As for FPGAs, they will do most CPU and all GPU mineable coins. Is this some kind of news? No.

As for profitability, try with electricity prices of 0.3-0.4$ / kwh, check again (with wattage /2 for x11 compared to scrypt) and report back.

The main problem about this is that you're a dumb scammer, trying to cheat hamsters. x11 was initially made asicproof, RTFM on what x11 is and why it is called so.

>>>we must ban x11

Do it, comrade! Or better ban yourself outa here.

it's not profitable, because some miners think that when price skyrocket they should start mining a coin, but this is not bitcoin, where difficulty kicks in after hundreds of blocks, it kicks in after just a few blocks and all keep mining darkcoin at a loss!

I heard similar talk when the first pics from gridseeds emerged. They were supposed to be "fake" "vaporware" "scam".. you name it.

Read carefully what he writes... that scrypt ASICs can do X11... this is impossible.

FPGAs, sure... they can do any GPU coin. But they are not ASIC-level efficiency or speed.

I wasn't trying to make a 1:1 comparison. Just saying that people called Scrypt asics a scam when they were reality. Now some people say _similar_ stuff about fpga for X11.

He doesn't say that an ASIC has been built for X11... he says that the asics that have been built for scrypt can do X11, which is impossible, as asics are custom designed to perform specific functions.

This misunderstanding probably originated from the website of an asic manufacturer where he accidentally placed darkcoin on his list of scrypt coins that can be mined. I had seen that link floating around - I think it was in the darkcoin thread. Of course darkcoin is not scrypt (it's x11) so the claim is bogus.

This guy is tripping. Even if FPGA's are out there, ONLY VERY VERY FEW have them. I remember when maxcoin was released, holy cow, there were some MONSTER GPU Farms on that 1gh, and keccak was pretty much GPU, since asics wasnt really out in the mainstream. There are LOTS of GPU farms that can push over a million on X11, so like i said earlier, this guy must tripping.

X11 ASIC's aren't going to come out until X11 coins are profitable enough like Scrypt. An FPGA is probably doable, but haven't heard any solid and concrete evidence of one yet.

this does not esclude, that they are already testing some for the future, you really think that scrypt asic were available only when we have begun to buy them?

i know there are at least two users here with a KNC Titan for pre-test

KNC has a bad rep for mining with customers mining equipment before shipping it.

I don't doubt someone has a X11 ASIC in the works.

There may be an FPGA, but not ASIC.

GPU and FPGA will always go hand in hand. If the coin is good with GPU, it'll be good with FPGA.

If you want FPGA/GPU and ASIC proof, then Quark is the answer. It works on the GPU, but is not that efficient cause of it's random rounds.

fpga may be yes but i don't believe in x11 asics if it was that easy the scrypt asic were gonna out earlier .
hashrates are high? yes but you have to multiply nearly 3 if you want to compare
also cpus can make nearly 300 khs. its not a small number and i have no idea about nvidia miners in the first day ccminer out they just increased the hashrate %40  ;D

any real proof ?   :P

Plenty of proof... proof-of-stupidity.

Claiming scrypt asic can do x11 = ignorance or real issues in the brain department.

I have seen people say that making an X11 Asic will be much easier/faster than it was for scrypt... however I have no real knowledge on the subject so I cant say if that's true or not.

Regardless, if asics/fpga's invade x11, the market will dictate where GPU miners go next, it's not really that big of a deal.
For the time being, I like X11 for the temps... I don't feel like my cards are going to melt into nothing :-P. But if another algo starts to rise, we go there. I'm going to guess this "arms race" will be going on for quite some time, so lets sit back and relax, and watch the show :)

Probably the best response in the whole thread.

People more likely have huge gpu farms of Nvidia GTX 750ti's. What's not to like about that gpu: 30~60 watts and hashes at 2.8 mh/s on X11. By far the most profitable gpu and about 4~5 times more efficient than an AMD HD7970/280X.

Exactly. Personally I don't think that the FPGA implementation will be significantly better than running bunch of 750Tis in the terms of MHash/W and MHash/USD.

Also, maybe there are private farms using custom software for AMD GPUs (the x11 implementation in sphminer is not really optimized enough).

the main problem with X11 are mainly X11 coins... one new coin everyday (not mentioning that for half of them the windows wallet have issues).
Until things settle a bit, there is no point mining them (except on nicehash, to take advantage of the people who rush into every X11 coin...  ;D)

Yup. How is it a 7970/280x be so outright over performed by a mid-grade gpu from Nvidia? Definitely there probably an optimization that doubles or even triples AMD's performance and maybe people are being greedy to keep to themselves. But we won't know until it's release.


It's not the problem of making too many X11 coins, it's more of coins with no true good purpose and/or innovation.

A ban? he said dont use.. not a ban. Theres plenty of people that said dont mine scrypt coins

^yup just like they did on scrypt during the gpu buying rush.. blended right in :)

Hey, I have an FPGA. Anyone wanna help me program it? :)

Doubt that there are that many 750ti farms even out there. There is definitely something off with x11 mining though. Obviously it's not scrypt asics lol  :D or 750Ti's as x11 hasnt been profitable since the beginning when DRK was little known.
As the whole DRK thing is a bit shady I wouldnt be suprised if there was a way more efficient method to mine x11 not released to the public kept in mind already developing x11. The market numbers just dont make sense and don't correlate to other algos.  
Also both BTC and LTC developers have pointed out that x11 is actually a pretty week algo.

In the end who cares, eventually it will be obvious to everyone and x11 and it's coin's will be forgotten as the community moves away from it just as we see happening to scrypt now.

lmao at people yelling for proof, it's certainly possible to program it for x11, so if there is a profit with fpga(i don't know much about their cost ecc...) they are already used for sure

https://darkcointalk.org/threads/darkcoin-fpga-mining-co-op.836/

Looks like some people over at darkcointalk are working on this fpga mining.

an fpga is a blank chip which set up is loaded from an eprom, all it needs is someone smart enough to do the programing. there is no setup cost apart for the off the shelf parts and the build, whether this would be cost effective now that's another matter.

I have it and how do you want me to prove it?  Its everywhere in China.  X11 is being done at 1/3 of the cost.  The old FPGA's are killing the GPU performance.

Make another Algo

FIRST X11 CAN NOT BE MINED WITH AN SCRYPT ASIC. PERIOD.
SECONDLY, X11 FPGAs DO EXIST, BUT THEY COST ABOUT $4500
AND ARE ONLY 3X AS FAST AS A GPU. SO NOT WORTH IT RIGHT NOW.

show some photos (have fpga but no camera ?)  ;D
(or better a video)
and since you have some fpga, why do you want other algos, you're not really logic (more for you less for the others)  ;D
and btw, there are other algos (why everybody are so focused on X11 ? actually,never mind, keep it that way  ;D)

ltcgear.com is mining X11 (darkcoin) using FPGAs: http://ltcgear.com/product/x11-mod-m2/

I don't think they're available yet. Sure, they might be easier to make than for scrypt, but those took over a year just for people f=proved them to exist. I don't think they'll be here for a loooong time.

I'm mining WhilrCoin now, no huge GPU farms on it yet and the algo is more efficient than x11. If there's concerns with the algo, just move on to a different one...

That is nice, does it work?

Yes, works very well.

how do you know it is fpga ? It could be anything...  ::)
This is just some renting address...

Definitely agree with the OP, regardless of whether or not FPGA/ASICs exist or not. Algos should be rotated in on a regular basis, we shouldn't idle on one single algo.

X11 came along, then x13, and x15, then NIST5 and fresh. Yet, the majority of coins are still being made for x11 and x15 and x13 to a certain degree completely fell off the map. After the debut of Fresh we haven't seen it since, the same with NIST5 (although there are a couple coins).

If people are making new coins on here, it goes without saying one of the newest algos should be used before they tote anything remotely resembling 'asic resistant'. You just don't know, so you should assume the worst. If there are FPGAs running right now it's big money to just keep their mouths shut and milk the shit out of whatever algo they've figured out.

I do know that profits for x11 are way down currently, the same thing happened before ASICs for SCRYPT ever hit the market. I don't even need to know they exist to know something fishy is going on here, just the same way the opening posts knows it. I'm sure most miners aren't willing to bet the farm anymore buying new GPUs or even buying off eBay, which just leaves someone who knows they can get ahead of the game.

I don't know if there are FPGAs or ASICs for sure, but if you're a coin dev and you believe what so ever in the small time mining community, you should be fucking making your coins with the newest algos. Maybe even a coin made around a algorithm that will constantly be built upon with newer algos. There is absolutely no reason to keep using older algos when new ones come out.

Though Asic resistance is favourable for miners and decentralization,  but even it cannot save the coin as in case of VTC which is struggling and devs now changing algo to Lyra.

This is quick. The algorithm is less than 6 months old and there is already ASIC for it.

You can build FPGAs for almost all existing altcoin algorithms. NIST5 and X11 both have had fully published chip/board designs for FPGAs for years, but there's zero real evidence that there are any commercially viable (aka cost effective) FPGAs actually mining. Whether it is worth the time or money to build them depends on the prevalence of an algorithm, and whether they are cost effective vs. GPUs.

The rise in network hashrates for X11 is primarily due to two factors: 1) GPU mining farms have moved from scrypt to X11, and 2) X11 GPU hashrates are becoming more optimized by the week (and are now ~5-6x scrypt hashrates.. so keep in mind that 6Gh X11 is really just 1Gh of scrypt GPU hashpower).

Which is why it's important to keep changing up algorithms and not sit on just one. If it's a moving target, there is no time to hit the mark and eventually they just give up. It's not like there aren't new algos coming out. People just aren't making coins using them.

'Optimized' scrypt rates don't matter. As long as you have the kernel, you also have the same firepower as some big data center full of miners. That's why ASICs blow, because it's a constant upgrade game. If a giant data center full of miners has one GPU, it has the same profitability (make and model) as a solo miner with one GPU.

Update: China is mining Darkcoin whit FPGa`s sinds April 2014

Today first X11 Asic`s miners: http://www.bitcoinupdate.nl/home/cleverhash-bezig-bouw-x11-asic-miner

;D Not Today... rather next year (if it works out  ;D search cleverhash thread on the forum)
This is how rumors get propagated: someone see the words asics and x11 in the same article and don't even bother
to read the rest of the article  ;D

So I can be use to mine dark coin?

dumbass are those who try to fight science n technology how ironic it's being done by devs in crypto-tech (science) themselves (trying to fight advancement) - killing their coins in the process.

My GPUs are running cold on X11, Windows desktop causes them to run hotter than the miner. LOL

I'm picking apart xcoin-hash and minerd trying to figure out what's up, it wouldn't surprise me if an R9 could do 30Mh/s or more.

My quad core CPU gets 60kh/s, seeing if I can improve on that first. I'm still fairly clueless at this point but maybe a few hours will change that.  ;D

https://github.com/chaeplin/xcoin-hash


 

There is a shit ton of volume that moves through x11 coins. I can't help but think your crusade to pretend ASICs/FPGAs don't exist is perpetuated by your wares you want to sell - your custom x11 kernels. You wouldn't do that though would you? I mean if you built your own self-explained 'lively hood' off of selling these kernels, I assume there is a market for it.

And those are just shit kernels by your own words that don't even have the miner adjusted (let alone hardware, such as FPGA or ASICs).

Hugh X11 mining power can be explained..

https://i.imgur.com/6vJwSvx.jpg?1
This is a farm from Genesis Mining running there private X11 Farm sinds February

calculator say only 0.03 a day, with 160w, not bad , but not outstanding either, and by the time that thing is available, we know what will happen...

Hm, anyone noticed at miningrigrentals.com the 2 big farms in x11? 70Ghash+??
What the hell is that?

an old news and a scam if you rent it...

couldnt agree more  :D

Are there more signs of X11 Asics already?

I have one small clue X11 are real.
Check here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM0YUEbOGu4
Time: around 43:10

more ? there are way less than last year  ;D (see the date of last post...)
since then most of those who were "mining" x11 with asic turn dead or scam...

edit: announcement... we had a lot of them, wake me up when you see one with your own eye (not that I care much about x11)

This looks weird though

https://www.nicehash.com/index.jsp?p=miners&a=3&addr=16yUStYVncYvGiNtRFyR84jEUbDQPLnFqj&l=0

Botnet power probably.

Yeah, it fluctuates to much..

I suppose a X11 Asic will fluctuates also due do its nature more than scrypt of sha256.

Botnet possible, probably right, lots of $$ made there man.

I bet it is an X11 asic.  I have read that a couple of manufacturers were working on it.  I'll bet that x11 miner on Nicehash is a prototype they are testing which also explains the fluctuations. (its not stable yet)

fpga?

i think there is no good profit to be made anymore, so no asic for x11, the same is true for every other algo, it's all about the profitability, not about the possibility

Hi, the CEO from Mining Asics Technologies showed me a worked schematic for a x11/x13 miner 1.5 years ago.
What i can remember its a combination of memory, fpga and asic chips.

No idea if it could work, but seems legit

Your right!!
http://www.bitcoinupdate.nl/home/-uniek-de-eerste-x11-dash-asic-miner-ibelink-dm384m

So do you think Dash will change the mining algorithm to other ASIC resistant ones? I think Neoscrypt changed before.

Yes!

Do you mean Dash will still use the x11 even after the ASIC come out or there are no x11 ASIC miner at all?

Damn... this thread is still alive ;D

Do you think Dash will have fewer user base after the ASIC takeover?

I used to be interested in litecoin, but not any more due to the mining without GPU.

 NO algo is asic-proof.

 Some just don't have enough return for anyone to bother making an ASIC for them.


 Cleverhash WAS working on an ASIC for X11 (and X13/X15 IIRC) but they didn't come up with enough funding to actually make the thing, as of the last word I saw from them.



 And no, Scrypt ASIC *CAN NOT MINE X11* - original poster is lying through their teeth about that.

If there is a big market, and good money to be made, there is always a ASIC design to make the mining more efficiently.

I have GPU to mine. At the moment it is better to mine the Ethereum so this ASIC does not affect me. But Ethereum mining will end within a year.

fpga are back on track!

They say it is ASIC, not FPGA. So the efficiency will be higher. GPU mining for X11 coins are finished now.

Not until ASICs totally dominate the hashpower, AND do so economically in terms of return of investment.

If it takes two years of mining just to break even your ASIC purchase => yeah, well... why are you mining? Just to break even or mine at a loss at a high hashrate? And then you can't resell it because by that time it is crap/obsolete.

GPUs on the other hand are very ...reusable and easily sold on the market. Demand is always high.

Wolf, since you deal with GPU optimization, how far do you think GPUs can go in terms of x11 hashpower, in a very optimized scenario? Are there serious gains that can be expected if software is written differently?

The difficulty of X11 is not that high to indicate the existence of the ASIC miners.

Why?

 The 14/16nm generation of ASIC should have a usefull life probably exceeding 3 years and more likely 5-6 years. This is the generation that will finally catch up to overall Semiconductor State of the Art, no more "1 year or less between generations" in catchup mode.

 I anticipate this will be a MAJOR game changer to ASIC mining.



 BTW - folks manage to sell Antminer S1 units EVEN TODAY - and those are quite a bit more than 2 years old. Granted, they can't get back what they bought them for - but they should have long since achieved RoI on them.....

So from now on, the  bitcoin ASIC mining will not be compete with the technologies, but with the cheap electricity.

ethereum will be pos in one year

 That's been a major factor for YEARS now. Why do you think most "big farms" have been located in low-cost electric areas?

Low cost electricity will make the mining profitable. In the past, most Chinese farms located near the coal fired power station, now it is near the hydro power station.

Any further news about the X11 ASIC?

You can go there to see the features:

http://cryptomining-blog.com/7627-what-features-are-missing-from-the-ibelink-dm384m-x11-asic-miner/

any of the loud mouths wanna apologize to "I am China miner" or did i miss it? rofl algo proof, no its proof, it cant be, its deigned for one thing, no one will make it cause of costs, oh man. the plague that ruins these communities wit the loud mouth know it alls that team up like 6th grade lunchrooms.love finding these gems.

How is that statement now? ETH=$20