Bitcoin Forum

Hello!

I have been mostly lurking on the forum so I didn't post much but I am not new to Bitcoin ;)

I am looking for informations on just-dice, the owner's name is not public but he seems to be handling his business well, do some trusted members of the community know him?

I try to evaluate the risk of losing an investment on just-dice.

Just-Dice is one of the most legitimate gambling games out there. It's the first one to be probably fair, so much that you can make your own code. It was also the first to have the investment option. Many users have made money off of the site, including the person who bought the first Bitcoin car.

I've put money in Just-Dice, and gambled it. I never had any issues whatsoever.

VERY VERY SAFE, anything could happen, but I think I can say that for another 100 years, dooglus will be trustworthy.

Are you talking about how safe it is to invest or would you actually profit?  Because IMO just-dice is safe, but you might still turn up with a loss in investments. 

The owner, dooglus, is a high and respected member of this community :)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3420

Doog is great and the likelyhood of him running with the money is zero, but there can still be a silkroad type event where goverment thugs (or private) decide to raid him.

I investigated as well.  Site and owner seem very legit.  I wonder where the site and server and owner are located, in terms of if they're in the US, that could be a risk.  Otherwise the principle could go up and down but should go up given enough time.

Just-dice is good.  Played a few rounds.  Earned a few Satoshis.

Thank you for your answers, I am not worried about the short term fluctuations when my investment is ev>0 providing no cheating but I am trying to estimate the risks of losing my investment through an exterior event such as a government raid, the owner dying or fleeing.
The expected rate of return seems sufficient to overcome the risks.

It really depends, if a lot of people win, it isn't good for your investment, but if a lot of people lose it is good for your investment.

I think you can trust them, but I don't have much experience with Just-Dice.

If you can't trust just-dice then you can't trust any site as they are the oldest and the best in my honest opinion.

Since i have gotten into BTC Gambling Just dice was one of the first sites i have gambled with and I have only known them to be fully secure with the bitcoin I have sent them. Always received payments with no problems. Thats my experience.

Basic premise is that there will always be risk with any online wallet of any kind unless it uses a trustless system.

Just figure if its worth it to you or not.  If it isn't just go for cold storage.  If it is, do it.

As all the others said: you can no doubt trust just dice.

About the rate of interest: This is the graph of their profit in the last 6 months:
http://i58.tinypic.com/oqkg0x.jpg

They have been running from June 20 2013 so not that old but the site seems to be managed quite ok and they have build a lot of trust

Very nice return, 30% in 6months with compounded interests but reinvesting the interests means you are risking it all.

There is always a risk to invest in a company but investing in a new industry, a new company getting a revenue in a new currency (or commodity :P) is even riskier, the riskiest is not to invest anywhere and not getting any return or seeing its capital erodes with inflation.

Just-dice and doog have a excellent reputation and personally I would say pretty safe. But things happen, think about gox or inputs.io... you should never leave more money than you can afford to lose on any site.

I agree with this wholeheartedly even though I would trust those sites with my whole wallet! Definitely don't put in more than you can afford to lose. That goes for any and every gambling thing you do.

It's a .com domain - that means it's managed by a US company. (I'm talking about who manages the .com zone, not the site itself)
The Registrar is in the US as well.
Regarding hosting, they're using cloudflare (which is in the US), but I don't know where their server is physically located.

Not sure where the server is physically located, but I do know doog is from Canada, and is very trustworthy. Haven't had a single issue from this site, and I've been gambling there for months now.

It's very safe, they have set up an emergency withdrawal address and everything. "Emergency meaning that if anything happens to the owner all your investments and amount in your account from the cold wallet will be automatically transferred to your address if anything were to happen".

I've heard of this before but how do I go about investing in Just Dice? Link?
Thanks

Just-dice.com

Go to 'deposit' and send btc to the given address. After one confirmation, the bitcoins will appear on your balance.
Go to the tab'invest'. Go to 'edit'. Here you can invest some of your bitcoins.

On the site, the "invested" amount is currectly at 36,085.
So the total bankroll would be that 36,085 + original funds from owners?

The bankroll is the amount stated on the website, the owners take a 10% cut on profits

What is the monthly incentive for investing in the site?

Does this mean the owners have invested 0 BTC into the site's bankroll?

No. I'm pretty sure Doog started the site with 100BTC, though, I'm not sure if he still has it in the site.

You would think the government agencies would shut it down

While I do like just dice what your stating here is false.

Just dice.... is perhaps the ~25th to 50th bitcoin gambling site to be provably fair.

There first few are the original bitcoin lotto (good turned scam and now offline) or bitcoin darts (still plugging along :D) closely followed by satoshidice.


Yes, and prior to that doog was incredible helpful in reviewing gambling sites for my list and also would generate his satoshidice profit graphs.

As far as trusting doog to handle your money safely, well so far so good :)

Thank you for the feedback, it was on a public forum and only a year ago but it was forgotten and people speculate

The risk involved in investing in Just-D is good because it is the reason why the rate of return is high

Can you please lock this topic as its been resolved? thanks  :)

I tend to always be on the loosing end when it comes to investing in any type of gambling site. I'd stay away from it as much as possible.

Can you elaborate? Where did you invest?

cold wallet + automatically transferred? i see a contradiction here.

Cold storage but it can be plugged in and transferred automatically once plugged in if needed

They have a large cold wallet (14o7zMMUJkG6De24r3JkJ6USgChq7iWF86) and several small hot wallets.

It can be an ongoing discussion ;)

When I was researching investing, just-dice was my #1 choice in terms of transparency and reputation of the admin.  Guess you can certainly put it above everydice now. 

You don't need to worry about JD's legitimacy. I know of people who've invested 1000 BTC into the site.

I'm not saying JD is not good.

But just people put in a lot of money doesn't prove anything, think about Bernard Madoff

Its very safe to put it into Just-dice. However, if he dies I don't know if there is a deadman switch in place. From what I've heard, Doog is kind of a old guy... ;)

I'm going to try Just-Dice, I was unconfident with it but this thread, with all the positive feedbacks, changed my mind  :)

one of the old dice sites

Safe , and the high volume makes it very very unlikely for a loss.

And as stated and restated , dooglus is trustworthy.

Good luck investing :)

Jambola2

When the price raised x10 six months ago dooglus didn't close the website so he won't close it when if the price goes x10 very fast again, there are obviously risks involved in investing in JD but the return is very nice

It was very safe to invest in just-dice but the site closed :(

Other options to make really risky investments in Dice sites here : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=826466.0 but I don't feel comfortable investing in them.

Trying to get signature campaign posts? lol

So i dont know what you are trying mr primedice.com  ::) ;D

Yea these games do pretty well. Invest in Satoshipop, you can buy it and make your money back in few months!  :D

lol, its a cool site.




i lost 0.5 just now. i'll be back

Would love to see more of the legit sites allow invest options :)

Yes, more sites with investment option are always welcome...

wow good profit
Graph is really beautiful :D

If you are looking for some serious investment in a good site.

You might want to check out my sig.

you can be reported for bringing up a dead topic. Don't risk your account for posts

dice sites in general are dangerous to invest.

Just dice was an exception, but it is closed now :(

What do you think about Win88 Casino's invest feature on dice?
Is my BTC safe there? I got 15 BTC on invest.
Site paid me pretty well too.
Should I continue or withdraw?

I don't know about Win88.Also it is new for me that they accept investing.

But some giants like Casinobitcoin had problems, so only you can answer your question.

Thank you for the advice but it is my post and I wanted to update it, I won't count it for the signature campaign.


I would like to see the graph for the next 6months.

Well, invested 10 BTC in win88 and its doing well.

I didnt catch JD.

It was very safe to invest in just-dice even if you could have lost your coins in case of a successful hacking, theft, loss of the cold wallet or a government raid.

You probably saw that you can now reinvest in the just-dice bankroll but it is all in CLAM!

Yeah. CLAM is a good investment, and with the pwning, it is very good.

Just make sure, you don't get confused with a few people will lot of btc, playing at random coins.

where can I buy clam ?

just dice is the most old but personally i dont invest in gabling

Potential investors may want to try with small amounts in the beginning.

Then see how it goes.

That's what I did.

Poloniex (https://www.poloniex.com/exchange#btc_clam) and Cryptsy (https://www.cryptsy.com/markets/view/CLAM_BTC).



Looks like the hype is over, and the price falls back now.

The hype isn't over. There are many good reasons, why clam remains attractive. It is just some people who sold it. It will rise again. It just keeps going in a cycle.

I think JD has not even completed 1 month of accepting CLAM. clam is likely to rebound back, as it keeps going up and down.

Price is very volatile and very profitable. JD has a bankroll of 50%+ of total supply which is very good plus.

me too like to invest in somewhere but dont know when i click on just dice deposit section i did not get any addy then how they give us profit ?

For e.g if i invest 1 btc then how much i get and after how much time ?!

JD only takes CLAM now, and so you can only invest with CLAM.
How much profit you will get, depends on how (un)lucky the other JD players are.

so it means if the other players are lucky we get -ve profit ?

140% in CLAM in a year but if CLAM looses most its value you will lose

ah hard to invest in it :P

is there any good website to invest :P ? not jd not a gambling one !

bitfinex

CLAM is about to shoot up. less peopel who know, better for me

HYIP sites

holding bitcoins is also not safe price is going down

The price is going up it used to be 10$ less than 2 years ago.

Exactly.
If the players are unlucky and lose, the house and investors win. But if the players are lucky and win, the house and investors lose.

AFAIK, Bitfinex is an exchange and you can earn a very small interest if you lend your money to those leveraged traders.
It isn't safe as the site could vanish tomorrow, and the interest is way too low IMO.

Interest is not that low but you have the risk of losing it all if the site fails entirely. It has been around for a while so it's kind of trustworthy and it is why i suggested it

Very Much safe!I have my 1000 Calms invested there.

its only safe if they dont shut down and run later on

if theres anywhere to invest i trust 3 sites and HD is one of them

Stacking and profit from the players are bringing a nice profit. But the price you paid for CLAM will be crucial in the calculation of your BTC profit.

Since just-dice opened the price of CLAM has fluctuated between 0.002 and 0.01 BTC

Last time they shut down ,they informed the investors and told them to withdraw . So its safe even if they decide to shutdown.
I don't think there are any trust issues with justdice.

how much profit you got after investment

I think its better then putting anything out there. Everything else I see is some type of ponzi, so I take just-dice any day to invest.

Just dice is about the safest place to invest, but they only take the CLAM altcoin.

Other sites have investment, I would trust them only for small amounts until you have some confidence in the owner.

Dooglus, the owner of JD, is about as trustworthy as an anonymous person can be.

Dooglus is an asshole, he'll eat your children for dinner and steal all their toys if you're not careful (hes a carnivore and not a vegatarian). He one time told us he slapped a baby while he was working as a Santa Claus at the local mall in Canada cause the kid started crying that they probably weren't going to get a barbie jeep. Shame on Dooglus for bashing that child's dream and for bashing the kid physically. But hey the baby probably deserved it right?

@BAC sir I want to buy your coins and your SOUL. Escrow though please for both.

It is not safe. If you bought clams at 0.006 now you are losing 50% of the investment if you want to convert that clams into btc or fiat due to the exchange rate.

/dig is free

Also the way I recall it I slapped the rabbit and ate the baby.


Are you the same KingOfSports who has been gracing us with your words of wisdom in the Just-Dice chat box?


I wonder if maybe you need to have a bit of a lie down.

This is a good point, there are two risks, the veracity of the site operator and the value of the underlying coin.  

However, this risk is present with bitcoin as well, since its price varies versus national currencies such as the USD.

I think the value of the underlying crypto currency is a separate issue though.  As far as things that JD can control, I think they are about as safe as you can find in the crypto currency world these days.

Maybe you can make the point though that if JD shuts down again the value of clams drops a lot since that is the main use for them.  I think they were like 30K satoshi before JD reopened.  That would be some kind of risk specific to JD.

Still, as BAC has pointed out, you can probably dig up some clams for free if you were in crypto back in May and try it for yourself.

Good Luck!

Wow, those people sound unhappy...

it is one and only site that accept CLAMS and it should be backed by or related to developer of clamcoin so there are less chances of this to become a scam, i m not saying that it is 100% safe i m just telling it logically that you can trust it as much as you trust other online gambling sites

Thats not a matter of safety, but a matter of the price going down, due to the market.
Even bitcoin fell 50% over the last 2 months ,can't say investment dice sites for bitcoin aren't safe.

There are more website using clam as currency, yesterday I played in a website where you could play any casino game and dice with clams and exchange the clams to btc in the same casino.

just-dice is very safe but you have a huge exchange rate risk.


just-dice is ONLY accepting CLAM when other casinos accept CLAM and other alt-coins

Other than JD, FortuneJack accepts CLAM as well.
I don't think dooglus and JD are involved in the development of the altcoin.

Dooglus isn't involved, but dooglus is helping out the developers of that altcoin.
Dooglus earlier donated 100clams to the developer team of clam.

Okay, didn't know that part of the story.

But I guess we all agree dooglus is very trusted as a site operator. The problem is only on how risky the clam price is.

/dig is free.

Everyone who owned BTC, LTC or DOGE has free clams.

I dont see the risk

True that many bitcoiners have some CLAM available to be dig, but they still have to face the CLAM price fluctuation if they decide to invest their coins in JD instead of selling it right away.

I've contributed quite a lot of code changes to the CLAM client. That probably makes me "involved", I'd say.

Pretty legitimate site, I would have invested if I had enough resources.

If you buy and the price collapses you are likely to lose most your investment even if you made a lot of money from staking and losing players but if the price rises you will get a double pay out when you cash out.

Something is going on. I watched "Layla" win at 14% over 30 times in a row. I just can't see that being hit that many times at 14%.. What's the mathmatical odds of that? I would really like to know.
 
I couldn't get a good screenshot with all the bets going but here's one.. Never a loss, only win at 14%.. I'm thinking some sort of copy paste but idk. I just can't bring myself to believe that this is possible. I'm sure there are some mathematical number for the odds. I would like to know this.

https://i.imgur.com/rwXlJMO.png

As I told you in the JD chat, this is a frequently asked question.

Here's the answer, from the FAQ tab:

https://i.imgur.com/UjMDOxE.png

Edit: these are first two bets from your screenshot:

https://i.imgur.com/ydEGf2h.png

and here's a list of the bets that happened between these two, that didn't show up because of the threshold:

+----------+-------+--------+---------------------+-------------+
| betid    | stake | chance | date                | profit      |
+----------+-------+--------+---------------------+-------------+
| 12650757 |     6 |     14 | 2015-01-01 19:17:14 | 36.42857142 |
| 12650763 |     6 |     14 | 2015-01-01 19:17:15 |          -6 |
| 12650775 |     6 |     14 | 2015-01-01 19:17:18 |          -6 |
| 12650804 |  0.01 |     14 | 2015-01-01 19:17:21 |       -0.01 |
| 12650812 |  0.01 |     14 | 2015-01-01 19:17:22 |       -0.01 |
| 12650820 |  0.01 |     14 | 2015-01-01 19:17:23 |       -0.01 |
| 12650830 |  0.01 |     14 | 2015-01-01 19:17:24 |  0.06071428 |
| 12650838 |  0.01 |     14 | 2015-01-01 19:17:25 |       -0.01 |
| 12650846 |  0.01 |     14 | 2015-01-01 19:17:26 |       -0.01 |
| 12650852 |  0.01 |     14 | 2015-01-01 19:17:26 |       -0.01 |
| 12650857 |  0.01 |     14 | 2015-01-01 19:17:27 |       -0.01 |
| 12650867 |  0.01 |     14 | 2015-01-01 19:17:27 |       -0.01 |
| 12650871 |  0.01 |     14 | 2015-01-01 19:17:28 |       -0.01 |
| 12650879 |  0.01 |     14 | 2015-01-01 19:17:29 |       -0.01 |
| 12650887 |  0.01 |     14 | 2015-01-01 19:17:30 |       -0.01 |
| 12650896 |  0.01 |     14 | 2015-01-01 19:17:31 |       -0.01 |
| 12650922 |     3 |     14 | 2015-01-01 19:17:34 |          -3 |
| 12650931 |     3 |     14 | 2015-01-01 19:17:35 | 18.21428571 |
+----------+-------+--------+---------------------+-------------+

Edit2: note that your clock is 8 seconds slow. If you're trying to stake CLAMs that could be a problem. The timestamps on bets use your local time, whereas chat messages use server time.

Anithing can happen. Investing in anythnig related to cryptocurrencies can be considered very risky.

The biggest risk is the clam market going down imo.

Yeah, because there's many people who just redeem the CLAM and exchange it to BTC in no time, made the the prices keep going down.

Well, about investing, I can't tell how safe is it. Who knows someone gonna win BIG later? You can't predict people's luck and future of course ;D

very interesting :) Might have to invest here... After I get my head around CLAM

Safeness: ERR_TOO_HIGH

I will be betting my CLAM, but I still wouldn't invest them, it seems more dangerous than betting them on a long priced outsider.

I'm not saying your cheating or scamming of any sorts. I just find it hard to believe that everytime they won they coincidentally raised the bet to a amount that is shown in chat. I mean what's the odds of them winning at 14% AND INCREASING THEIR BET to a amount that can be seen in chat at the exact same time? Man those odds are beyond astronomical.  What your saying is they bet low and it didn't show up in the chat until they increased their bet to "x" amount which could be seen everytime and them winning. I mean the odds of all of this coming together at the same time, and everytime is beyond astronomical.  I'm talking new species out of the mud astronomical. Extremely hard to believe when the odds are over 100 trillion to 1, and it happening over 30 times. Those odds in itself are astonishing.

Slow down and read. The didn't raise their bet to an amount that is shown. When they win, their profit is high. When they lose, their loss is low. The high winning profit is shown. The low losing loss isn't. This happens when flat betting. No need to magically raise your stake for winning bets.

Do you understand now?

It's possible that someone will get lucky and stay lucky long enough to take all the site profits. It has happened before. But there is a 1% house edge which should mean the site is profitable in the long term. Here's a chart showing the actual site profit (in black) and the 1% expected site profit (in green) for the first month or so that it has been running with CLAMs:

https://i.imgur.com/BoFPRLa.png (https://i.imgur.com/BoFPRLa.png)

Note how the black line goes up and down pretty much at random, but also tends to follow the shape of the green line.

On top of this, investors also get the rewards from staking the site's bankroll. So far that amounts to 25k CLAM - more than the profit from losing bets.


I would be interested to hear the reasoning that landed you at that conclusion.

When you bet there's a 1% edge against you. When you invest, the edge is in your favour and you get the staking rewards too, making the edge greater than 2%.

if invest 0.1 for one month!!

how much profit i get !! ??
i m asking average :)

Ok Dooglus, maybe that was a bit of an unfairly aimed comment, but generally investing in crypto gambling sites hasn't been the greatest investment.
I am sure that you are doing things right, but I have never really understood why if these sites make profit, they are so keen to "share" the profit with everyone.  As I have often said, at some point the amount invested could be weighed up against the future profits of the site by an unscrupulous owner, and the they can decide that it isn't worth it anymore and run off with the invested money. 

Again, I am not saying that you will do that, but there have been examples of that happening in the past.

Do you invest in any other dice sites that aren't directly under your control?

There is no average. Totally depends on how many people play on site and lose.
You might lose money as well. Anything can happen.

It's true. Running a crowd-funded dice site gets the owner control of a whole load of (other people's) coins very quickly. It usually takes quite a while for the site to make a profit, and even longer for the site's owner to earn very much in the way of commission. But if they "play against the investors" by using the server seeds, or just run off with the coins, they make a lot of coins very quickly, and so obviously that happens a lot.

I ran Just-Dice with Bitcoins for a year with a bankroll over 60,000 BTC (worth over $50 million at one point) and didn't feel any temptation to steal anything. Since I showed I was able to be trusted with that amount of value, most people don't have too much worry about trusting me with the relatively tiny value of the CLAM site. The whole bankroll there is worth around $300k at the moment - a small fraction of the BTC site's value.


I can think of lots of reasons (good and bad) that might make it worth accepting a crowd-sourced bankroll:

1) BIGGER BETS: By allowing others to take part in the bankroll you are able to afford to offer bigger maximum bets which may attract more players.

2) LESS RISK: I can make risk-free coins by taking a commission on site profits. The "investors" risk their coins, and I take a cut of any profits they make.

3) NEW MARKET: Offering an attractive "investment" attracts people to the site who wouldn't usually consider visiting a gambling site. They come to invest, but end up playing.

4) GIVE BACK: Why not share the profits with others?

5) EASY MONEY: Collect massive bankroll from suckers then steal it.


Not at the moment. I invested in both dicebitco.in and dice.ninja for a while, but managed to withdraw before they went bad in both cases. Those experiences put me off the idea of trusting people. :)

Well, we can see the average amount wagered per day and guess that it will be similar going forward.

I made an account on December 12th and invested some coins in it.

Here's a record of how that investment grew each week, and the cumulative growth:

Dec 12 2014     0.00%   100.00%
Dec 15 2014     3.64%   103.64%
Dec 22 2014     5.02%   108.85%
Dec 29 2014     2.09%   111.13%

Jan  2 2015     5.94%   117.73%

So I've seen 17.73% growth in 3 or 4 weeks. That is from staking and play combined.

Of course there's no guarantee that the same happens in any other 4 weeks. It's quite possible even to have a losing month.

How difficult is it to move 10's of BTC into CLAM and then back to BTC at the moment?

Looks like you are running Matlab there dooglus?! I guess you have some type of engineering background

Depends, the current buy market is just over 50 BTC . Current price is 0.0038 . So if you were to buy 10 BTC worth, then you would be driving the price up to 0.005.
And if you were to sell right now, you would drop it to 0.0027.

FortuneJack.com lets you exchange chunks like that fast I believe :)

The other small peanut exchanges have CLAM too, but you'd be best to put your order on the Ask and wait for BTC whale to come in and bite it.  No one wants to keep Bitcoins on most of those exchanges, so it is a in and out thing!

Lots of people by off the exchanges, but be sure to use escrow!

It's not easy without moving the price significantly. The markets are pretty shallow. 10 BTC is ~3k CLAM, and there are only ~400k total CLAM in circulation. So you're talking about moving almost whole percentages of the CLAM supply.

And that's gnuplot, not matlab. :)



Does anyone know how the fortunejack exchange works? I don't see any information about the market depth. I suspect it doesn't really work for large amounts, and that they just quote market + margin and buy back on the exchanges.

Here they are quoting me a price to buy a million CLAMs. There are only 400k in existence currently, so unless they have a huge supply they didn't 'dig' yet (and why wouldn't they dig and stake them if so) it seems they're making offers they can't follow through on:

https://i.imgur.com/9TVRjIp.png

... and I get the same price if I only have half a BTC:

https://i.imgur.com/J0Ueoyc.png

wait does anyone know if theres any faucet that produces clam?  :)

There are a couple linked in the Just-Dice FAQ tab.

Wait thats pretty crazy. The price is that sensitive, or is that with all new alt coins that gain traction like similar end up being doge coin?

Hopefully CLAM doesn't end up how I believe DOGE is going to end up, but yes coins that pick up volume similar to BTC, LTC, DOGE and what we are seeing with CLAM are often very volatile at first... even oil when it was first discovered it could be burned had HUGE swings in the market, but once more and more people started trading the price leveled out naturally.

I expect CLAM to continue to increase and for a number of large businesses with trust already established to start accepting them (such as FortuneJack already... they spend a large chunk of change advertising.)

You can have a better deal than the market with a big buyer/seller if you do a private sell.

How many of the 400k clams are yours dooglus?
Are you selling your clams or storing them? If storing you must have built a large percentage of the market!

Dooglus has aroun 246,000 right now ;)

Go to just-dice and type /supply.

Just-dice has 246k CLAM not dooglus. CLAM market cap is now 2000BTC

You will have some answers here : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623147.msg10003852#msg10003852

Ok, thanks, interesting stuff!  It still seems like an interesting/weird choice to use CLAMs, but I guess there is method in the madness as trade seems to be pretty good on JD at the moment.

I selected CLAM for JD in part because of its low market cap. I don't want to be responsible for millions of dollars of cryptocurrency. The fact that the market is too shallow to support even 10's of BTC of volume without shifting drastically is a good thing from my point of view.

The complaints I see in the chat about the relatively small maximum bet size now, I see as a good thing:

  (152350) <JimC> I remember the good 'ol days when max profit + $100,000+
  (967107) <eustice> lol this is like dollar scratch tickets

I vouch for JD. My tiny investment of 24 coins has now generated a profit of 5 coins for me. Dooglus is legendary (not just as a member on this forum) in the crypto-gambling world. He held almost 10K BTC at one time IIRC. Whatever i have seen of him. he has been extremely honest. In fact, he still holds some BTC from some folks who did not divest at the time he had to close Bitdice due to laws in Canada. If anyone else had 10K BTC in their charge at the time when BTC went up to $1000 apiece, they might not have stuck around. It would have been very easy for him to run away with 10K BTC but he did not, this speaks volumes about his integrity and has pushed up my trust in him!

It was around 65k BTC at one point (see this chart (https://blockchain.info/charts/balance?timespan=all&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=14o7zMMUJkG6De24r3JkJ6USgChq7iWF86), and, if you're wondering why it suddenly drops to zero, this one (https://blockchain.info/charts/balance?timespan=all&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=19Zmw5kMbkTjA7qRUdUEiwLqgRaMRRLDkh), to which I moved the coins after a mishap involving me 'forgetting' the cold wallet in a hotel room and checking out...), and "Bitdice" is something else.

Interestingly I've had 4 different people approach me in the last 24 hours asking for their JD BTC balance back. Until yesterday it had slowed to around one per week.

I don't know if the crash in BTC price has caused them to check their JD account and notice that it no longer deals in BTC or what. Only 48 people left to go now with outstanding balances of 1 BTC or more!

What is the biggest amount of BTC yet to be claimed on just-dice?


If you hold more than 2 millions of $ worth of CLAM on the just-dice bankroll and just-dice balances you will stop accepting investments or deposits?

The CLAM supply is going to 1 million within 2 years so if the price is more than 2$/CLAM, are you saying you will do something to limit the number of $ you are holding? It is very bearish for CLAM!

If you're asking what the largest unclaimed BTC balance is, it's around 130 BTC. The 2nd biggest is around 70 BTC.


I am working on a change that will allow big investors to keep the majority of their coins locally, but still have them 'invested' on the site. I'm hoping that will greatly reduce the number of coins I'm in control of since it will allow people to stake most of their own coins and keep 100% of the staking reward rather than paying 10% of it to Just-Dice as commission.

JD currently has control of more than 60% of all the CLAM that exists. That in itself should be bearish for CLAM, and remedying that situation (by attempting to limit the number of coins JD holds) should be positive for the coin.

Thank you for your answers. Decisions you make about just-dice influences CLAM greatly.

If you implement the system of fractional reserve or any system where you don't keep most of the CLAM, there will likely be a lot of CLAM that will be sold for BTC.
The price will be supported by those who want to invest more on just-dice and once the change has been implement and the price has changed accordingly, it will be business as usual.

The 10% fee on CLAM stacked can be seen as the fee to help reduce variance and stack 24/7 as opposed to have a higher variance and the need of a computer online 24/7. If you are so concerned about it you can always reduce the fee on CLAM stacked.

I will like to be able to have 100 CLAM on just-dice counted as 1000 CLAM so I will be happy when you implement the change.

I have a version of the site up for testing that allows you to do exactly that.

See my post here for details:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=238613.msg10101347#msg10101347

I am on it and testing, it should be fun when you implement it on just-dice! People will likely be less crazy when it's their money than when it's play money.

I wonder if it is possible to write some clever algorithm which predicts the next number, if you roll the dice thousands of times and use all the numbers for it, because a new server seed is generated only when I click the randomize button, and all other input numbers are known. The invested money would be gone very fast. Maybe better to generate a new server seed for each roll, of course with the same provably fair concept, that the gambler can see the server seed hash before rolling, and then with the randomize button the client random number can be changed. Just changing the random number independently with the same server seed, might be dangerous, because of some clever algorithm.

Does the site stop, if someone manages to write such a clever algorithm and wins e.g. more than half of the site investment, to investigate it? Or did the site admin get notified, if someone wins with 1000% luck in the stats and similar things?

And how safe is the server seed generator? It should be a true random number generator. Just software is not safe, because you have to assume that the source code is known. "/dev/random" might work, depending on the CPU, but might be not fast enough, with the new server seed generation concept.

Finally how safe are the servers? Is the source code and server setup audited by a security company? Does it have intrusion detection systems, DDoS firewall protection, multiple fallback servers around the world, good data backup systems etc.?

The thing is even just-dice can be hacked.

Just-dice bankroll is at 300 000$ now. It should keep growing as the bankroll grows and even more if the price of BTC goes up.
The /cold command will grow the bankroll but not the amount of CLAM that dooglus is responsible for.

just dice is legit as it gets outside from primedice. everythings been a scam lately or a ponzi.

does anyone know where to find clam coins super cheap?

You can dig them on non dust doge ltc and btc addresses of the day of CLAM distribution in May 2014. You can try the addresses on just-dice chat, more on the just-dice FAQ.

Or this faucet for dust CLAM where there is still 1CLAM to grab ;D http://myfreeclams.com/

damn where the heck have I been? i just noticed just-dice being reopened using that alt coin lol.

so just curious is this alt coin will drop like doge coin did?

DOGE had a market cap of well over 50 million dollars.

CLAMS current market cap is about $413,000... I think we have room to grow!  Honestly,  CLAM is much better structured than DOGE.  Similar but much better fundamentally (in my opinion.)

http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/clams/

Only reason to have server racks with PoS is for this:

https://i.imgur.com/5JtgKZd.jpg

Just for fun I ported the JavaScript verifier to a simple Python script, I hope it is right, worked for all bets I tested it with:

http://pastebin.com/uB1675LG

How provably fair works: when you click the "randomize" button, write down the server seed hash. Then gamble. Finally hit the randomize button again, click "ok" to generate a new server seed and then the "randomize" button again: it will show you the server seed which was used for your last rolls with the previous server seed. Use this, the hash and your client seed and start my script (or the JavaScript verifiers linked from the "Fair?" page at just-dice.com). It will test, if the server seed hash was created from the server seed and you will see the same lucky numbers. No cheating possible.

Do you mind if I link to a copy of that on the site?

Sure, you can use the script for whatever you like. Additional note: needs Python >=3.

thanks for the insight esp about the market cap. But damn, I wish I had money like that laying around lol.

That picture says, im too rich.. lol.

Just-dice is in CLAM now. It looks like it will stay in CLAM even if it could come back to Bitcoin one day. You can now declare an offsite investment and get a bigger portion of profits but more risks for your onsite investment.

I somewhat wonder why dooglus chose to use CLAMS over bitcoin (or another altcoin). As you mentioned CLAMS' market cap is tiny when compared to even very minor altcoins.

I would say that reopening in clams will cause JD to have a much lower profit potential

That is exactly what he wanted!

Interesting , I do not see company info on satoshidice dot com. How do you know who is the owner and is he US citizen? Is the company behind the website US company?

If you are invested in the bankroll, more investors mean you are dilluted so you earn less but most new investors have to buy CLAM so the price of CLAM goes up and you win.

There is also primedice..i want to know the minimum amount of betting and investment..i think investment is in primedice as well..i have just entered the gambling world dont have much btc maybe 1btc is required to invest..i will start with just-dice

1) Primedice doesn't allow investments

2) Just-Dice is CLAM only. No BTC

All informations he gave were false. Just-dice is in CLAM only but other casinos offer to invest in BTC, the risk is big but the reward can be big too.

What are other big sites that use BTC that I can invest in?

How about win88.me
I heard some people got some nice profit from that site

Better than just-dice i will try primedice,or look for casinos which offer good investment offers.. starting by investing small amounts..its all about luck afterall. And there are casinos if you singup you already have few satoshis or mbtc..i will search that.

There is also bitdice.me however both bitdice.me and win88.me are really too new to be able to safely invest in. They are really only a few months old while JD is several years old and the owner at one point was controlling over $50 million worth of bitcoin

And he gave it all back to the investors.


You are confusing investing and gambling against the casino bankroll. Investing is gambling with an edge

Primeice doesn't offer an investment offer .

Shrishti doesn't believe Primedice doesn't offer to invest in the bankroll ;D

Haha got it? ;D i did not knew it was gambling by investing   :P

You can invest in the bankroll on some gambling casinos but not on primedice.

Ok can you mention them please? :P

Wait, doog is back in business!? This is awesome!!

Everyday some people learn about just-dice reopening, sometimes thanks to this thread, and some of them invest in just-dice or buy clam to play which is bullish for clam.


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=826466.0

It seems the guy is quite disillusioned with dice site "investing" after getting ripped off by a couple of the many copycat sites that he tested out.

I made him an offer to try out the original crowd-sourced bankroll dice site:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=826466.msg10291963#msg10291963

Thanks  :)

Is that to me? I have nothing to do with you!  ???
Why did you quote my comment?

I didn't; I quoted picolo, and he quoted you. I left his quote of you in my quote of him for context.

You'll figure out how it works if you think about it.

To get back on topic, we are having what you might call a bad week:

https://i.imgur.com/2uhUcje.png

Although it doesn't look so bad when you zoom out:

https://i.imgur.com/fhQurXP.png

Ya i get it! But you were talking about me indirectly to picolo that 'how disillusioned i am..' in picolo's reply to me in
 "Can you mention the sites for me :P"   :-[

Money won by players tend to come back in play ;)

No, I was talking about the guy who made the thread that picolo linked to.

Indeed:

https://i.imgur.com/EbVlHYO.png

47 253 CLAM of profit and 60 429 CLAM of stacking profit from when just-dice reopened.

45 900 CLAM of profit but CLAM at 0.007BTC.

Here's an updated chart showing the non-staking profit:

https://i.imgur.com/itTYzqP.png

the same risk applies regardless if you are not playing dice. since you are the bankroll, and you dont know how big their bank roll is.. either.

Are you saying that the risk is the same whether the 1% house edge is working for you or against you?

That doesn't sound like it can be right.

Also we do have an upper bound on how big their CLAM bankroll is, since we know how many CLAMs exist, and how many are in the JD bankroll. What we don't know is how willing they are to buy back any CLAMs they lose so that they can continue playing.

There are exchanges that trade clams, you could dig them out of your btc addresses or you could ask a veteran to sell some to you in the just-dice chat (be careful).

If you had Bitcoin, Litecoin or Dogecoin on May 12th 2014 then you already have free clams.

Good place to start is the Just-dice FAQ.

Get the free ones first before buying shit obviously.

Get the free ones and buy shit at the same time, then mix them together and you have free shit!

I depsited and withdraled many times its fully safe

nothing is really safe, but you have better odds since this is based on house edge winning in the longer term.

JD is a great site, dooglus has over 5K btc and I think he is rich and famous enough, he won't run with our funds. :D

The site reached a new all-time high profit today:

https://i.imgur.com/yJ8amhm.png

The new profit was a result of BadMo hitting a run of bad luck:

https://i.imgur.com/RuSoiAI.png

 ;D gambling is never safe

Had BTC, LTC and DOGE on that date, but at exchanges. 
So those don't count, correct?

Not unless they were at Yacuna or Poloniex (I think).

I use Poloniex regularly.  Would it have been automatic, or do I have to request?

The exchanges will have had your coins at some address or other, and that address will have been given the free CLAMs. Exchanges operate shared wallets, so they typically have few fewer funded addresses than funded accounts.

Poloniex did a giveaway of the free CLAMs there were awarded many months ago now. I missed it too...

You know what's better than investing with an edge? Investing with an edge *and* a share of the staking rewards...

Even when the players win, the investors mostly don't take a loss, because the staking rewards cover it.