Bitcoin Forum

Carrying on from: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=322328.160

Forum: https://forum.unsystem.net/

http://www.wired.com/2014/04/darkmarket/
http://www.wired.com/2014/04/dark-wallet/

A whole other world awaits in the shadows. Step out in any direction you choose.

http://darkwallet.is/
https://wiki.unsystem.net/index.php/DarkWallet/Alpha3
https://wiki.unsystem.net/index.php/DarkWallet/FAQ

This is just the beginning. A whole new generation of digital black markets is about to be born.

Don't be afraid. Stand firm & disobedient.

https://i.imgur.com/e9IJ1Xm.png

Who holds my keys?

You hold them on your desktop. We do not have access to them.

Are mixing servers centralised?

No, they are federated in a p2p network. Anybody can setup a mixing server and have it inter-operate with the others.

We cannot view your transactions, and do not have access to your Bitcoins.

-----

You can support the project with bitcoin at 31oSGBBNrpCiENH3XMZpiP6GTC4tad4bMy (bitcoin:31oSGBBNrpCiENH3XMZpiP6GTC4tad4bMy) (check information about the fund (https://wiki.unsystem.net/index.php/DarkWallet/Project_multisig_fund)).

https://wiki.unsystem.net/images/thumb/e/e4/31oSGBBNrpCiENH3XMZpiP6GTC4tad4bMy.png/200px-31oSGBBNrpCiENH3XMZpiP6GTC4tad4bMy.png

lol nothing to see here, just another 3rd party service to hold your coin and run away with them later.

it makes me laugh they cant even be arsed to make a tor website. they have no clue about security.

even on the normal internet, they cant even code secure https...

anyone putting your coin into dark wallet will lose it. and you will have no recourse with police investigations due to the fact that you will have to explain why you put funds into something advertised as used for the blackmarket.

It's an Alpha release, you are supposed to be using the testnet and contributing to the testing and development right now.

Thanks for all your hard work guys, looks slick. I will be setting up an obelisk server soon as all the ones listed on the site seem to be overloaded and blocking new connections.

I would have taken a completely different approach. This just looks like MyBitcoins wallet with teen angst. A better approach to anonymizing coins is to set up a matrix consisting of random clusters of computers creating multisig transactions and loading each other's wallets with a specified amount and nLockTimed as a failsafe. They would swap intermediary keys in a circle one way, and the coins the other. I think it would be a nightmare to code something like that, but that's the nature of the beast.

i don't fully trust dark wallet
but it still looks interesting , gonna have a try  ::)

This is not a 3rd party service, it's a wallet that runs as a plugin in the browser and can hold keys there.

Maybe you want to read more information, check the wiki genjix is linking there.

Interesting stuff.  Love seeing the development of anonymity purpose-driven software.

I try to blend coins just incase anything is being tracked, but to have something built in would be great.
I'll let the early-adopters iron out the wrinkles before I jump in. :)

3rd party service doesn't sound correct.
Dark Wallet is controversial, but they are not setting up a central service which features a future "run away" with the coins.

Is it possible to host the dark wallet server on an instance of amazon c2 or google cloud? Will there be support tutorials in how to do it?

MANY many companies dont use a tor website even if they aim to be secure. This company has many steps to complete but they have an okay model to strive for.

Gotta love your signature man... The irony...

No one told me I was supposed to use the test service, so I am using real bitcoin with the Dark Wallet alpha.

It's been a bug-filled experience, but still this is promising software.

I tried to give away some bitcoin to listeners of my radio show, and it has been confusing and slow.  I outline some of my experiences, for anyone who cares, here in this thread:  https://www.facebook.com/freetalklive/posts/10152121299029072?stream_ref=10  - my comments are as "Free Talk Live".

I sure hope this gets out of alpha soon.

It's essentially a decentralized wallet once finished, and a nonprofit is making it. If it doesn't end up being centralized, which will be the case, then no government/authority can go after companies. Companies can't do anything shady either once the wallet is released, and the code will be visible to the public to analyze.

Good article that goes into it http://www.panture.com/how-a-dark-wallet-will-affect-bitcoin/

Waiting for Firefox addon, I don't trust Google software.

well then you might want to take a look at how mozilla gets its funding...

"not setting up a central service"

well read the wiki and look at the part that shows people connecting to a SERVER. then look for ANY part that mentions decentralized peer-to-peer connections....

firefox is important to me too as a user. we want originally with chrome for during development as the API is more stable.

we're waiting on a final spec by peter todd for the coinjoin. more info: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279249.msg6526623#msg6526623

info on stealth addresses: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=592518.0

thanks for all the trollbox trolls testing, activity & feedback!
it's great, i love it. lots of trolling action.

Smart move for Dark Wallet to use the browser to gain from this development and research and I feel stealth addresses will keep information leaks with your every action at bay.

Darkwallet is possibly the second best thing after Bitcoin. Go on guys, long live freedom.

Feeling a bit useless. Two Newbie-style questions:

1. Where do I go to give feedback on Dark wallet?  I have noticed a couple of things but not sure where to post/tell.

2. Is there any user-friendly info on what stealth addresses, coinjoin and multi-sig do and how to use them within dark wallet? Stealth addresses in particular have me completely baffled and what I've read so far hasn't made me any less baffled ;-(

Many thanks

Is there any good overview of what DarkWallet *is*?

I backed it for the wallet and privacy aspect, but what's with the "lobby"? And chat rooms!? It's like an electrum server but you can chat with other users? What's the use case for that?

great work anyway, nice to see you guys delivering

I guess the best way is to visit their official website:
http://darkwallet.is/

and write them an email or post in their forum.

The lobby is just a trollbox, like the one on BTCe. You can use it to chat with other darkwallet users.

1. https://wiki.unsystem.net/index.php/DarkWallet/HowToHelp#Communicating_with_the_team

2. I'll make videos soon.

I think there should be an easy way to get people to trust wallets that get created, because lets just say 100s wallets start getting uploaded and 20% of these are scam wallets this 20% will scare people fro trying ANY other wallet than Multibit, Electrum or Bitcoin QT... maybe the bitcoin dev guys should have a stamp of approval thingo , so basically if someone wants to develop something for BTC it will have to go through them for checking and security and once we see the B TICK TICK symbol or whatever people now know this is safe to use. I think thats a good idea

good idea, i'll ask the other wallets about something like this. it should be fair and open though.

I don't think anyone would really do that, as it's only giving the opportunity for some new wallet to use the trust of other wallets to potentially set up a long-con scam of their own.

Awesome work, thanks dude. My 1st post is for you.

Your program give me faith in bitcoin. It's a big step no doubt, hope you can release it without problem, will be proud to use it instead of blockchain.info .

After i saw your program, i took a look at unsystem, and some of your video. I'am all with you. Deal with it, there is no turning back.

Keep going, there is not a lot of guy pure as you are, i hope you can release Darkwallet and working on Darkmarket... I'm feeling sorry to not be a programmer, and make a project like you do :D So for now i will just donate what i can afford to.

thank you. our fund is here: https://wiki.unsystem.net/index.php/DarkWallet/Project_multisig_fund

btw interview with cody,
http://onpoint.wbur.org/2014/05/06/bitcoin-dark-money-dark-wallet

golden bits are at 27:30 and 37:00
lots of comments from liberals with fascist tendencies.

one word, centralized.

https://i.imgur.com/b4T096L.png (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX6NjkItne4)

Hey, I thought you figured out how to embed videos into this forum.  :)
Congrats on Dark Wallet, it looks to be a popular project.

Like the video. Saw Dark Wallet on the DN the other day, I'm all for it. I support everything that enables/helps anonymity. Will be following this thread to see when all the kinks get worked out.

Are they suggesting that centralized development is good?

About the dust example: if the dark wallet team decides to ignore it, the majority will force it one way or the other. If the majority rejects dust, miners who accept them will lose out. That is kind of the strong point of decentralization.

If Bitcoin breaks because there are multiple implementations, then it should do so, the faster the better.

Rest assured the Govt will not be happy.

I want to clear up some facts which I'm seeing propagated a lot.

Dark Wallet coinjoin goes through a server, but the server cannot see any details of your transaction nor can they steal your coins. All details are encrypted for the counterparty, and all signing happens in the client.

The only weakness here is that a server gets taken down stopping the service in which case you switch to another service. Even if the NSA controlled the server, they wouldn't be able to steal your coins or observe your transaction at all.

Lastly the server is sharing messages with other servers (we are improving this too), so it isn't really centralised. It is federated kind of like how different email providers inter-operate with each other. The decentralised aspect will only improve over time as we develop standards and deploy technology.

Congrats, darkwallet brings Bitcoin back to the reason I started using it in the first place. Power to the people.

There is all kind of approach to this problem.

Right now it is alpha so it is rather hard to put any kind of mark on it. Until more people are going to use it and there is going to be full version everyone should use it with caution.

Seems interesting Ill keep an eye on this project.

i really like idea and also alpha version of darkwallet.
Great design btw maybe a few adjustments on this side.

Great progess thx unsystem for the efforts

Thank you genjix, for explaining how it works. It does look to be promising and a good use of technology. It's refreshing to see something developed that shows some inspiration and isn't a scam. If it wasn't for all the raging-against-the-machine-rhetoric folks would take the practical aspects of this more seriously.

Are you guys running a server?

I'm not a laywer, but:

If that is the case, that server could be shut down and Mr. Wilson and cohorts arrested for "running a service" that "facilitates" or supports illegal activity.  Its clear that DarkWallet will be attractive to people who are doing things that are considered 'illegal'.

If I'm not mistaken, Liberty Reserve and eGold were shut down for the same reason.  Liberty Reserve's founder is apparently facing a long prison sentence (the charges against him include his boastings about the service's illegal utility).

The developers of Bitcoin, and BitTorrent for that matter, don't face legal liability because they just write the software.  They don't actually operate anything.

I like DarkWallet, but hopefully the 'decentralised aspect' will improve very soon.  The us is obviously going to do some very intensive traffic analysis on whatever server(s) you're operating.

It's all encrypted. Try proving anything.

They target the users machines with specially designed malware (assuming the server is as secure as believed).  Once they decide the server is facilitating illegal activity, they will move in.

Best to be paranoid.

If I understand how this works properly, the server only matches encrypted keys. It doesn't do anything outside the blockchain. So if the users were not using TOR, then they might be able to trace the IPs. I suspect that these servers will become virtual and anonymous eventually. I don't like it, but I am open-minded enough to want to see what happens with the experiment.

I like the concept of DarkWallet, but it needs to use true P2P to negotiate the mixing.  I was just pointing out that by running a server, the developers may be exposing themselves to potential criminal liability.  If all they do is release software, they're safe (at least this seems to be the current understanding of the law).

So does Dark Wallet dispose the need for other anonymous coins such as DarkCoin or ByteCoin?

Yes.

Featuring an experimental identity system, and lots of improvements both on the frontend (browser plugin) and backend (gateway, obelisk and libbitcoin), we present Alpha 3:

https://wiki.unsystem.net/index.php/DarkWallet/Alpha3 <-- Detailed release notes
https://github.com/darkwallet/darkwallet/releases/tag/0.3.0
https://github.com/darkwallet/darkwallet/archive/0.3.0.zip


This is a major milestone since we're introducing our new identity system where now you can keep long term contacts and find them later in the crypto goo that is the stratum for our conversations, subject to change but valid for our current goals. Also big improvements in parsing stealth since that's now going to a background thread, and the gateway got some bug fixed that was making things very slow  should now be snappy also using our block explorer will be a new experience Smiley.

Best Regards!!

I noticed in another thread that there was a newer version, so I will quote the post here:

I just couldnt trust this, As somebody else has already said. Its another 3rd party site.
And people inevitably make mistakes, Not me though of course  ::)

Where are people getting this misinfo?

https://wiki.unsystem.net/index.php/DarkWallet/FAQ

Dark Wallet is NOT a 3rd party site, it is a wallet that you install on your computer.

Anonymous bitcoin wallets are 99.99% scams the only for sure safe wallet is blockchain.

You do well to be careful but DarkWallet's model is more secure than blockchain.info (nothing bad to say about them).

1. DarkWallet is a browser plugin that updates respecting whatever policy you want on your comp, blockchain.info is a webpage that serves you scripts
2. With darkwallet you hold the keys in a way that you can use the wallet in offline mode, or not hold keys using multisig or in the future readonly.

Again, don't want to compare with blockchain.info, they do a great service and we're still alpha, but please open your mind and read the docs we paste there is a lot of information:

https://wiki.unsystem.net/index.php/DarkWallet/Alpha
https://wiki.unsystem.net/index.php/DarkWallet/Alpha2
https://wiki.unsystem.net/index.php/DarkWallet/Alpha3

The first one is a general detailed description of initial alpha status, the other 2 documents provide very rich details about what we have been working on for the last 2 weeks.

So, our model is, it's not like we won't run with your coins, it's like we can't run with your coins since we don't hold *any* user data, keys or nothing at all. Also we can't just make a phantom update like say other webwallets could do and then deny it, all our changes are very publicly documented in git (https://github.com/darkwallet/darkwallet) and our release procedure is strict where we sign our code releases (I do myself).

cheers!

Dark Wallet is not a web wallet, it is a wallet that you hold on your pc (like Electrum), so I can't see how it can be less safe than blockchain.

BTW I hope the stable release comes soon! :)

Keep up the great work devs!

Right now I would put highest priority on getting Obelisk servers out there.  All traffic currently going through wss://gateway.unsystem.net  <---   (glad I'm not the one running this box) 

I'd like to know more about this, how does the anonymity, security, robustness of Dark wallet etc compare to these ?  Which method is best?

Thanks for this useful and carefully considered piece of advice which is obviously based upon your in-depth knowledge and research of Dark Wallet and the people associated with the project.

 

 

When we see the reality that the machine is a dystopia, as tragic as any work of fiction, why should we not rage against it (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqnMrynpq9U)?

http://www.reclaimyourlegacy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Dollar-Value-decline-1913.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/I8AIyEX.png

+1 for that awesome Rage Against the Machine video.

And the dollar value chart is just sad. This is why I always tell people that, yes- rallying for a minimum wage increase is a good thing, but you should be more concerned with inflation. Rapid inflation from printing Way too much worthless paper money over the years is the main reason why your $7.50 McDonalds hourly wage is barely enough to survive on. The people should support an audit of the Federal Reserve.

Great work guys.

I've downloaded and installed the pre-alpha Dark Wallet release. Not all the buttons work yet (I tried to get the Watch-Only Pocket to work but I couldn't get it working), but it still looks very nice. It looks like as soon as it gets out it will be quite the power wallet.

You can set up different identities as well as different pockets within each wallet (each identity has it's own wallet). QuickSend seems to use coinjoin automatically. There is also (it seems) one stealth address for each identity. They also have functions to easily set up mutlisignature wallets.

hey! we have a forum for discussion about all related projects + coordination:

https://forum.unsystem.net/

We have the lobby which is a p2p protocol, and there's a lot of things possible through it. It's basically a secure chat which is used for negotiating coinjoins, multisigs, .etc

here's a cool write up:

http://coinjoint.info/dark-wallet-lobby-enables-secure-group-chat/

major props to Dark Wallet and Amir Taaki/Cody Wilson!

This is one of the best innovations in the bitcoin sphere for a long time ...