Bitcoin Forum

If bitcoin becomes million dollars each, or litecoin goes for 500$ and dogecoin goes for 1$  the sheer number of fiat millionaires it could create in the world could be thousands..

Is this socially possible? yes lot of people have become lot wealthy with lots of bubbles in past, the dot com bubble is a classical example creating lot of millionaires.

So what happens to the world if millions of millionaires are created all of a sudden?

will governments and rich people who have a lot of influence over the world(like Bilderberg), allow that to happen?

no but it is only 15 million bitcoins in circulation, so that would put to 15 trillion..
bitcoin cuts into 9 trillion gold market atleast 20%

that adds 2 trillion,

butcoin cuts into metals and commodity markets that could add 3 trillion to market cap

bitcoins cuts into remittance market that adds some trillions.

all with some speculation could definitly put it at that range..

remember what satoshi told,, if it is suscessful , the value of bitcoin will be the maximum in the world's wealth and zero if it does not succeed..

so if bitcoin could go for 1 trillion then 15 trillion is just as possible as 1 trillion

They won't have a choice. There is way too much capital inflow to shut it down now.

They have, people who bought gold before the year 2005 and hodled it did made a huge profit as shown below:
http://i58.tinypic.com/s638lx.png
And it will happen again, with what commodity or with which coin, hard to say but it is going to happen. And govt can't do anything about it.

Likewise with the stock market, either buying in the financial crisis or after WW2

Don't forget the aluminum bubble, or the coal bubble, or the gasoline bubble, or the crude bubble, or the rhodium bubble, or the.... every other commodity on Earth, I think. Not just millionaires, either, of course. It's easy-come easy-go. People don't usually walk away and retire from work/gambling when they're a millionaire, and there are going to be sharp declines in the value of whatever you sell or hold, too.

Much more impressive than being a millionaire is consistently being a millionaire or billionaire for more than ten years.

Dont forget that in that time, effective value of $ will fall. So, one bread wont be 1$, it's gonna be 1000$ (not exact math, but you get the point). So yes, you will be millionair, but you wont be able to buy as much with that million as you can buy right now. End game situation would be BTC taking over fiat. In that moment you can have 100000000000$ and you wont be able to buy anything with it. As simple as that.

As aditional example, 1 milion dollars could buy you ALOT more 50 years ago than it can buy right now, and trend (value of dollar falling) will just speed up.

You talk about inflation, I doubt the value of the dollar will fall as strong as in third world countries

Or looked at another way...

https://i.imgur.com/VYuHDuo.jpg

The profits from gold are really more about the decline of fiat than anything else. Remember, the value of any commodity is relative to the value of all other commodities!

Petrodolar is very close to failing. Once that starts to happen, shit will hit the fan. With hyper printing FED does this days, it's just question of time.
What everyone should ask themselves is not how much BTC will cost in dollars, but how much "bread" or "oil" or "flour" will i be able to buy with 1 btc...that's correct question that needs to be answered and speculated.

What a silly title. Of course people have become wealthy from bitcoin. Very much so. I'm sure there'll be a lot more wealth created in the future too. If mainstream adoption kicks off the price will surely follow.

I expect the Forbes 400 list to contain dozens of bitcoin-billionaires. The rest of the list is going to be pretty pissed off

I wonder if Satoshi will ever make it on there?

It has happened many times in the past. I will give you some examples.

1. In 1989, the DELL stock was going at $0.10. By 2000, it had increased to $55.1, which corresponds to some 550x increase.
2. Similarly, the MICROSOFT stock was going at $0.10 in 1987. By 1999, it had increased to $50.
3. The CISCO stock had increased to $64 in 1999, from just $0.08 in 1991.

I think becoming wealthy is what a lot of people here hope.

1wNn5JJ6gJAqhBtq9ezJmvoXGg9bvSsMD

Hope? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIbEj1CIpuU)

It's not so much that we're getting rich, dear reader. It's that everyone else is getting poor (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LfZFGcGc_I).


https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FVYuHDuo.jpg&t=540&c=DWAF_Vc-hFiZfw

A lot of us will. Freedom and wealth are great incentives.

if everyone is going to be millionaire then money value will drop down.

We are the early adapters. Our community is a very small percentage of the world population so not everyone will become rich.  As the playing field levels wealth will inevitably move from early adapters to other people.

IMO, only those Bitcoiners with more than BTC25 with them will be having any chances of becoming a millionaire in the near future. And according to rpitella, there are only some 40,000 people with that many coins.  ;D

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=316297.0

dogecoin will never go for $1 each. Over 10 trillion dogecoins are mined daily.

The only thing to do with a dogecoin is give it away before it loses value...oh too late, someone just mined a few billion while you were thinking of how to get rid of it.

1. only 100 billion doge total
2. mining ends in 2014..

Then watch it go to moon

No, there is an infinite amount that will be created. Billions and billions every year.

So much forks.

So much inflation.

Isnt this thread kind of silly? Many people became rich and many will follow.


It will never go to the moon, though shibes are desperatly hoping it will.

that is to keep the mining activity running..it is deflationary inflation.

also see when bitcoin could go to 50000+ and have a market ca of trillion dollars and more, it really makes some sense for dogecoin to have a market cap of 100 billion and a value of 1$ per coin

you have to remember that when somebody gains money it means a lot will loose money to pay for that win!

Bitcoin might reach 50,000+. But that doesn't mean that Doge will go to $1.

Give me a reason. Why you are saying that Doge must hit $1 if BTC hits $50,000?

Doge is just another shameless copycat / counterfeit without any merit over Bitcoin. It will die out, before BTC hits 50k.

the doubts of this happening are high
dogecoin to $1?

We could only imagine what would happen to fiat currency

If any of the events occurred, we could expect immediate adaption to digital currency.

"There will be blood"

There's roughly 12 million people in the world who are "millionaires."  So adding a few thousand more could happen but it will be via the accumulation of a large sum of Bitcoin, not from Bitcoin reaching $1 million each.

Thing is you have to hold these coin until don know when ...

I 'got rich' sort of in the dotcom bubble.  I was up $1/2M in three months on stock options, but was not vested.  At 6 months when I was vested, things had crashed.  With this company I was post IPO and a tiny fry compared to most of my peers.  Many of them bought expensive shit (e.g., any home on the peninsula near Si Valley) but deferred selling to pay taxes and took a severe beating.

Although I missed the theoretical potential to capitalize, I probably would have missed it due to my own ignorance at that time.  I did, however, learn a few things from the grief of others:

 - Big money comes out of the pockets of the class who are behind hedge funds (and the lesser investor money they can corral.)

 - Roll out at opportune times to lock in gains.  There will be plenty of entities who have the will and ability to put ones gains into their own pockets.  They do, however, need time to arrange this.

 - Don't get into a situation where one's hand is forced.

I've applied all of these lessons to my experience with Bitcoin and have no regrets so far.  If I had a crystal ball I'd have done some things differently to be sure, but I've so far not made any plays that I regret.

I have a 19th century ancestor (a scrub farmer) who invested a small inheritance into the Russian Railways. By 1917 the family was looking for a nice colonial plantation in Argentine but then the Russian Revolution came. The family is still recovering from that disaster :) The papers are kept as a family heirloom. A reminder of what could have been. Perhaps in 100 years my offspring will pass along my wallet.dat in the same fashion :)

Well, they missed out on the opportunity to participate in ethnically cleansing that part of the world and supporting death squads decades later.  Perhaps things worked out of the best.  It's a subjective thing based on personal ethics I suppose.

 - edit:  The above funded by exploitation of their peers in Mother Russia I might add.

What have you been smoking?

Only 20 people invested the full amount into the NxT IPO, and that 20 was probably half sockpuppets or more due to how obscure it was.

If NxT hits billions then there'll be new billionaires.

i dont think that is a problem
bitcoin is not more than google or microsoft currently and that enterprises are hold by three people

NXT is starting to get interesting to me. I am kind of waiting to see if there is a dump after all the pumping.

the term millionaire means nothing in todays economy it meant something in the past when only a few people could reach that ammount, but today at least 1 person every day becomes a millionaire it means nothing!

Every hyperinflation that happened created some millionairs in very very short time. Hyperinflations, even tho they are really bad for 99.99%, those that have means and assets can earn shitload much more than in no hyperinflation situations.

Dogecoin needs no comment...it's life has beed mistery to me ever since i saw it first time. Wondering how it didint already die...

You can't blame them, if the other investors ignore the IPO. Those 20 investors will either lose all their money, or they will become even richer than Richard Branson or the Winkelwii.

One of the effects of inflation is that commodities become more expensive.

Since bitcoin is somewhat like a commodity, it will become more expensive compared to dollars.

How much, it's hard to say. But $10,000,000 is possible.

We need an hyper hyperinflation of the USD to get 10,000,000$

Yep, and you'll get it (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQdmsL147j0). Things are not going to get better for the dollar, only worse (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZU3wfjtIJY).

All fiat scrip are ScamCoins (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDe5kUUyT0). That's a fact, jack.

https://i.imgur.com/zVdwpzn.jpg

I can't wait for BTC to put fiat to the ground. Long live Satoshi. :)

There is 12 million, not 15 million bitcoins.

people were allways trading and gambling, just like they do now with btc.
imho, atleast now its much more simple, and more widespread, everyone has the chance to stack up wealth.

The IPO was shut down prematurely and without warning just as more people were warming to the idea. It was a very stupid move. It could be much higher but for that. Maybe those memories will fade with time.

The Rothschilds family networth, google it.

It's quite possible.. and the Rothschilds would still have more than all of us combind...

May be they could re-list the IPO now. Anyway, now with Bitcoin gaining increased attention from the various media houses, they might be able to find more investment.

yeah if there are new millionaires and billionaires, it would be a shift in the distributino of power and wealth.. who knows how that would end up though.

A million millionaires would require purchase of 1 trillion dollars worth of bitcoin.  How is that going to happen?

People loose faith in the USD.. That's how.

As demand grows fiat currency will buy less bit coin. This is where divisibility comes into play. 

It would be possible but it would be highly unlikely, at least anytime in the near future (assuming lack of hyperinflation).

Inflation acts a lot like compound interest. M2 is increasing around 7% YoY (official Fed numbers, not SS). Assuming this keeps up for 10 years, ~$2m at that time is the equivalent to $1m now. Basically, everything should double in price each decade at current rates even though that's somehow not considered hyperinflation. CPI is also lagging waaaaay behind M2 right now, but needs to be factored in eventually (over just the past five years, CPI's lagged around 25% [nominal%] behind M2), so I'd guess the consumer-realized inflation over this theoretical decade would be closer to 10%, which'd make ~$2.6m in 10 years the equiv. of $1m today. It starts, I think, if the Fed returns to sanity and starts valuing dollars with an interest rate of significance.

BTC's immune to this and can generate returns on top of it. If you can snag a conservative 10% annual return on it by, say, offering interest rate swaps on BFX, your fiat-value holdings would increase 20% annually. -And we're in the calm right now. Everyone's talking about the fear index being extremely low in the US, similar to the pre-08 crash. We didn't have BTC to buy back then. I wouldn't dare speculate the value increase a stronger crash would bring, but even 20% over 10 years on $1m comes to >$38m. Meanwhile, your family and friends are paying current credit card rates on their $500,000 ARMs while dealing with a declining GDP, house prices dropping like stones, not-hyper-but-may's-well-be-inflation, and austerity measures trying to reign in inflation and runaway national debt/GDP.

There's no doubt in my mind that $25k in BTC today is worth $1m in ten years (though that $1m is only worth ~$385k in today's dollars). .... Well, okay, there's some doubt. It's an arm-chair, very fear-based theory based on current trends continuing and probably some bad math. ;D

It would take a hyper-inflationary event!

But bitcoin already seems to operate like a coin on crack. It is manic and 6 months of tech development feel like 6 years.

Just think in Jan 2013, just under 1.5 years ago, bitcoin was tottering around $10.

Within 12 months it had rocketed up 100X.

I'd like to think this is because a) it's fucking amazing b) a combination of tech, pent up frustration with CC's and that govt and banks are responsible for untold self serving decisions that royally screwed millions of people.

I am not following your logic in saying that you would need to add CPI inflation to M2 growth.

In 10 years if M2 doubled but CPI inflation was exactly double then the million dollars that I have can still buy the same amount of goods and services but would be 1/2 the percentage of the total M2 money supply. It would be likely that asset prices would have appreciated in this time so the million dollars would likely buy a smaller house (but the same amount of food, or cars, or haircuts or vacations). M2 doubling in 10 years would mean that in terms of the percentage of money supply a trillion dollars worth of bitcoin would be like 500 billion dollars today.

In regards to your assumption of money supply growth I would question your assumption that the current rate of 7% would remain constant. QE has had many effects on the economy, and one of it's intended effects is to get consumers to spend more. It gets to this goal by making it cheaper to borrow. A large source of this borrowing has been via home equity loans (this would include both lines of credit and loans). At least temporarily the funds from these loans will be part of the M2 money supply. Another issue with the M2 growth rate is the vast amounts of "cash" that large companies have on their balance sheet. Due to a number of reasons companies have been reluctant to invest and have kept a large portion of their profits in "cash" that is part of M2. So the money that consumers do spend eventually ends up in M2, or at least a larger then normal portion of it.

Looking back to the Cyprus bank crisis, the price of bitcoin surged when banks ability to remain a going concern was put into question. I would say that a banking crisis that puts into question the health of banks would be positive for bitcoin, however aversion to overall risk would be bad for bitcoin. It should be noted that bitcoin is still a very speculative asset and people will sell speculative assets when they are trying to reduce risk.

I think that Bitcoin does have a lot of long term value and potential.

In regards to your 25k BTC holdings being worth a million dollars in 10 years. I would not be surprised if this were to happen. I would even go as far to say that I would be surprised if it did not happen anytime in the next 10 years. This would be the result of the value of BTC going up 40x (it would be more when taking into consideration the additional blocks found by miners).

The later case is more likely than former.

Not to the extend the wealth earlier bitcoin adopters have.

we may see attempts to squash crypto on some level, but it seems unlikely. already, i think, the community is too large and constantly growing -- and there is no way to squash a decentralized network.

If bitcoin reach even 1 million, the %  of millionaires in the world will not increase so much than it is today, starting by that we only have 21 million bitcoins, and there will be thhousands of people who owns more than 1.

If bitcoin go up that much, some alt coins coin will go up also.

Hence more millionaire or even billionaire.

Sorry to get back to this so late -- kind of dropped off the face of Earth for a while. I was meaning to suggest M2 growth should eventually translate to CPI growth, not that CPI goes into M2. CPI is barely increasing YoY, missing Fed inflation targets consistently for nearly two years, IIRC. I would assume, then, that CPI has a lot of growth potential to be "realized" (since it's lagging so far behind M2 increase) over the next few years, and while M2 growth will likely slow down, that "unrealized CPI growth potential" may offset that, at least for consumers. M2 in January '97 was ~$3.8t, but we're at ~$11.3t, now, so in my mind, it seems like a '97 dollar is worth ~3 of today's dollars.

Reading this (http://seekingalpha.com/instablog/486073-wildebeest/226913-does-a-growth-in-m2-cause-or-imply-an-increase-in-inflation), though, there doesn't appear to be any correlation between CPI and M2 (or MZM after looking at that personally), which just seems totally counter-intuitive to me and now I need to ask really dumb questions. There's way more money which'll eventually be chasing goods, right? They can't just hoard money forever... can they? Why doesn't M2 or MZM ever show any significant downward trends?

Today i had a history class and we saw the Spanish guys that conquered some countries like Mexico, Chile, etc. Thousands of thousands of

people became wealthy thanks to silver, gold and many goods they stole.


So yes, Bitcoin will make you, as many people of this forum, rich  ;D

I don't see any problem with more users and adoption resulting in more millionaires as it becomes more and more popular
It would be riveting to see how it shapes the future.

That said there would probably not be that many millionaires as in one form or another wealth will be lost in the process
Example some people who forgot about their coins for two years would be wealthy today if they had 100 of them but if they were following the market from 2011 then they were likely going to lose money by selling at lower peaks and not rebuilding their base.

So while it is socially possible individuals will likely take profits far before that point is reached after all assets have a time value component and duration is important.