Bitcoin Forum

Bitcoin => Mining speculation => Topic started by: Bitcoin++ on June 18, 2014, 06:55:39 AM



Title: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: Bitcoin++ on June 18, 2014, 06:55:39 AM
Looks like it will run at a loss in a month or two, at least for people like me who pays $0.20 / kWh.

What then? There should be people around with super cheap electricity who can squeeze a few hundred bucks out of it. But I don't know where/how to sell and what the price shipping will be (Im not in the US).

Using it for heating is an option. But then I need to underclock and get a more silent fan. All those cables etc won't look nice either.

What are your plans?



Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: chandan123 on June 18, 2014, 07:00:18 AM
better to sell and get rid of that if electricity costs more


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: davecoin on June 18, 2014, 07:08:15 AM
Don't panic.  Just undervolt.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=526060.0


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: pitrol on June 18, 2014, 07:08:29 AM
Hold and do a upgrade.

Soon you can upgrade your S1.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=656461.0


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: Bicknellski on June 18, 2014, 10:12:19 AM
Looks like it will run at a loss in a month or two, at least for people like me who pays $0.20 / kWh.

What then? There should be people around with super cheap electricity who can squeeze a few hundred bucks out of it. But I don't know where/how to sell and what the price shipping will be (Im not in the US).

Using it for heating is an option. But then I need to underclock and get a more silent fan. All those cables etc won't look nice either.

What are your plans?



Donate it to a local Montessori school and explain it to the kids how it works.


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: stergium on June 18, 2014, 12:26:31 PM
My personal plans are to keep them until they die. and then resurect them. and then die again.
power consumption is not an issue for me.
If you want to sell it you can try ebay  or even create a topic here for any  people interested.
I might also , depends on the price obviously


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: Slaine on June 18, 2014, 12:50:46 PM
I'll undervolt mine and use it to help heat the conservatory in winter.

I cant see there being a great price difference between the S3 upgrade kit and just buying a complete S3


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: ChuckBuck on June 18, 2014, 01:42:46 PM
Sell it and use the money to get an S3!   :D

That thing is sexy as f##3!!!


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: SEGMining on June 18, 2014, 01:53:14 PM
We would be interested in purchasing your old Antminer S1s at a reasonable price.

Anyone who is interested, please PM me.


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: DrG on June 19, 2014, 09:56:21 AM
Unless you're selling in bulk most people won't be able to sell off the S1 with shipping since that would negate any earnings potential.  If you can find a buyer locally you might get some $ for it.


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: KimNam on June 19, 2014, 11:06:45 AM
hard to sell S1 now
it's good thing when i sold 2x S1 to my local friend
since S1 become unprofitable anymore and not good Watt/GHS
try to sell in your local market, maybe someone want it and buy from you
good luck to find buyer :P

Sell it and use the money to get an S3!   :D

That thing is sexy as f##3!!!
i didn't find information about S3 before
where do you get that info? ;D


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: ChuckBuck on June 19, 2014, 01:07:39 PM
hard to sell S1 now
it's good thing when i sold 2x S1 to my local friend
since S1 become unprofitable anymore and not good Watt/GHS
try to sell in your local market, maybe someone want it and buy from you
good luck to find buyer :P

Sell it and use the money to get an S3!   :D

That thing is sexy as f##3!!!
i didn't find information about S3 before
where do you get that info? ;D

Here's the money shot:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=656461.0

Drool city, drool drool city bitch!


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: ChuckBuck on June 19, 2014, 01:09:20 PM
Unless you're selling in bulk most people won't be able to sell off the S1 with shipping since that would negate any earnings potential.  If you can find a buyer locally you might get some $ for it.

If you can't sell it, wait for the upgrade paths for the S1 and S2 that Bitmain announced, along with their S3 offering.


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: KimNam on June 19, 2014, 02:46:51 PM
hard to sell S1 now
it's good thing when i sold 2x S1 to my local friend
since S1 become unprofitable anymore and not good Watt/GHS
try to sell in your local market, maybe someone want it and buy from you
good luck to find buyer :P

Sell it and use the money to get an S3!   :D

That thing is sexy as f##3!!!
i didn't find information about S3 before
where do you get that info? ;D

Here's the money shot:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=656461.0

Drool city, drool drool city bitch!
thanks for the link
i thought they will make S3 for 2 TH/s before
it seems they make product with newer chips to reduce W/GHS
but so many people pesimistic about ROI in their S3 thread:(


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: ChuckBuck on June 19, 2014, 02:57:24 PM
hard to sell S1 now
it's good thing when i sold 2x S1 to my local friend
since S1 become unprofitable anymore and not good Watt/GHS
try to sell in your local market, maybe someone want it and buy from you
good luck to find buyer :P

Sell it and use the money to get an S3!   :D

That thing is sexy as f##3!!!
i didn't find information about S3 before
where do you get that info? ;D

Here's the money shot:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=656461.0

Drool city, drool drool city bitch!
thanks for the link
i thought they will make S3 for 2 TH/s before
it seems they make product with newer chips to reduce W/GHS
but so many people pesimistic about ROI in their S3 thread:(

S3 is the replacement for the S1, for home and mid-range miners, and for replacing S1 farms.

The yet to be announced S4 will replace the S2, probably after S3 batches are sold this summer.


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: KimNam on June 19, 2014, 04:39:43 PM
S3 is the replacement for the S1, for home and mid-range miners, and for replacing S1 farms.

The yet to be announced S4 will replace the S2, probably after S3 batches are sold this summer.
yeah S3 is for S1 replacement
since it's < 1 TH/s
so we need to buy many S3 (like we do with S1), and run it together to mine BTC
if their prices is good, maybe i'll buy and try it


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: 64dimensions on June 19, 2014, 04:56:06 PM
Dude,

If you would have taken the above poster's advice and read the S1 undervoltage thread, you would have found out 2 things:

1) Undervolting the S1 results in it running cooler and as people noted in that thread as a consequence, the fan runs slower therefore quieter.

2) The Master, BITMAIN, released two mods that allows you to run the S1 in a 1W per Gh/s configuration. So instead of running at 360 W stock, the S1 is drawing around 100W after his mod while mining.


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: cooldgamer on June 19, 2014, 06:59:14 PM
Keep it around and undervolt it when it starts losing money.  Soon you'll be able to upgrade it to an S3.


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: rograz on June 20, 2014, 03:41:23 AM
Keep it around and undervolt it when it starts losing money.  Soon you'll be able to upgrade it to an S3.

The big question here is though if it's worth upgrading to an S3 rather than just keeping your S1 undervolted and mine with "free" gear at 100W@100GHs. For it to be worth it really the difference between the complete S3 and the upgrade kit has to be "worth more" than the performance you get out of the undervolted S1, else you are better off just buying complete S3s.


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: DirtFighter on June 20, 2014, 10:34:38 AM
Mine is plugging away still..currently costing about 30% of revenue to operate….I guess when the S3 comes out if the price is right I will get one and/or upgrade my S1


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: xstr8guy on June 20, 2014, 10:51:25 AM
Glass half full!

- They make great (noisy) space-heaters in the winter.

- If BTC goes to $3000 in the next few months, selling on eBay should be quite profitable, lol. Remember when BTC went to $1200? Used ASIC prices quadrupled almost overnight.


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: film2240 on June 20, 2014, 11:05:10 AM
I think you should just sell it since the longer you leave it the value of the miner will depreciate more,meaning less of a return for you.I think just sell it for as much as you can,then when the S3 comes out or another suitable miner comes out,just buy it and profit from it again. :)


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: LYCAN on June 20, 2014, 11:09:01 AM
yeah because of the difficulty its mine nothing soon .. better way to sell and get rid of it sell on decent price about 0.1 or more or a bit less.. it will worth nothing in some weeks..


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: xray on June 21, 2014, 09:11:43 AM
I have sold over 120 Ants S1 in the past 2 weeks , I have got between 0.33BTC - 0.4BTC ,They would have probably made 0.6BTC running until Dec , but for the extra 0.2BTC and storage and power, I felt it wasnt worth it.
What i am doing now , well thats a whole new thread


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: Harley997 on June 21, 2014, 06:53:29 PM
You should attempt to sell it.

Your ideal price should be something above what it would make mining less electric costs up until it would become unprofitable to use.

Another option would be to treat it as a lottery ticket and use it to solo mine


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: nwfella on June 22, 2014, 01:27:19 AM
Running 3 old school S1's atm.  Pretty cheap electric where I'm at but planning on just shutting mine down if undervolting doesn't result in profitability until such time as bitcoin price rises enough to justify turning it back on.  Might be leaving them off for sometime I realize.  If nothing else maybe I'll start a Bitcoin Museum 2 or something :)


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: KimNam on June 22, 2014, 01:49:06 AM
I have sold over 120 Ants S1 in the past 2 weeks , I have got between 0.33BTC - 0.4BTC ,They would have probably made 0.6BTC running until Dec , but for the extra 0.2BTC and storage and power, I felt it wasnt worth it.
What i am doing now , well thats a whole new thread
where did you sell it? and from many of your buyer, where are from?
my friend try to sell it, but nobody interested here (in asia)


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: Nagle on June 22, 2014, 04:50:26 AM
Someone should set up a museum of Bitcoin mining hardware. (An online museum would be a good start.) For each unit, show the date introduced, the hash rate, the cost, the profitability, and the date the unit became unprofitable.

It would be cool to have them all in a row - desktop PC, graphics cards, FPGA boards, USB stick devices, the first ASIC-based cards, water cooled racks of ASICs ...

Whatever happened with that "Bitcoin store" that was supposed to open in New York City?

"Bitcoin hash rate will go to the moon!"



Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: ChuckBuck on June 23, 2014, 06:28:14 PM
Someone should set up a museum of Bitcoin mining hardware. (An online museum would be a good start.) For each unit, show the date introduced, the hash rate, the cost, the profitability, and the date the unit became unprofitable.

It would be cool to have them all in a row - desktop PC, graphics cards, FPGA boards, USB stick devices, the first ASIC-based cards, water cooled racks of ASICs ...

Whatever happened with that "Bitcoin store" that was supposed to open in New York City?

"Bitcoin hash rate will go to the moon!"



I think forum user DocZombie has an online museum setup:

https://www.thebitcoinmuseum.com/index.php/

Not sure if there's a Bitcoin store per se in NYC, but there's the NYC Bitcoin Center that's right down the block from the NY Stock Exchange.  They have regular Bitcoin live auctions, get togethers and events, classes, sell Cointerra equipment, and last I heard was adding a Bitcoin ATM pretty soon:

http://nycbitcoincenter.com/



Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: Harley997 on June 25, 2014, 01:41:04 AM
Someone should set up a museum of Bitcoin mining hardware. (An online museum would be a good start.) For each unit, show the date introduced, the hash rate, the cost, the profitability, and the date the unit became unprofitable.

It would be cool to have them all in a row - desktop PC, graphics cards, FPGA boards, USB stick devices, the first ASIC-based cards, water cooled racks of ASICs ...

Whatever happened with that "Bitcoin store" that was supposed to open in New York City?

"Bitcoin hash rate will go to the moon!"

Some may argue that the network hashrate is already well past the moon. The numerical rate at which the difficulty is increasing is multiples of the difficulty that was in effect late last year


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: LYCAN on June 25, 2014, 11:50:36 AM
if someone wants to sell antminer at decent price i am interested to buy.. just pm me .. escrow can be accpeted but you pay the fees.. :)


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: KimNam on June 25, 2014, 12:53:51 PM
if someone wants to sell antminer at decent price i am interested to buy.. just pm me .. escrow can be accpeted but you pay the fees.. :)
where do you live? i'll forward your offer to my friend who want to sell S1 :P
if he still want to sell it or still not sold


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: nickgaff on June 25, 2014, 06:38:47 PM
where is the seller located?


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: LYCAN on June 27, 2014, 05:03:25 AM
if anyone wants to sell 1 or 2 antminer please let me know..


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: bitcoinbelieve on June 30, 2014, 02:20:19 PM
Is undervolt same thing as underclock?


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: DrG on July 01, 2014, 04:43:48 AM
Is undervolt same thing as underclock?

Undervolting is changing the voltage to a lower voltage. Since power used is based off the square of the voltage, a small change in volatge can mean big power savings.  But of course it can't run as fast.

Underclocking means turning down the speed (clock speed) that the miner runs at.  This can be done usually without touching the voltage.  Typically most people try to run the fastest clock as the lowest possible voltage needed to get them to the desired clock.


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: argovian on July 01, 2014, 08:17:37 PM
I might also be interested in some Antminer S1's at the right price :) can pay USD or BTC.


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: thejewelrytech on July 02, 2014, 04:20:24 PM
If your a Gambling man?I would undervolt it and try too SOLO Mine with it @ http://bitsolo.net using it in a pool setting actually gives you a fighting chance too actually find a block since your working off the pool's Nonce's instead of Solo mining on your own Nonce's which is most likely not going to cut it at this hashrate.
I believe the S1's are one of the few older newer machines that  can actually solve a block these days? Many of the older machines I don't believe have the NONCE using capacity too even find a share in the BILLIONS? Like Block Eruptors and USB sticks I think they completely lack the technology and Nonce using capabilities and will never find a block at these levels and going forward?I could be wrong? But I have yet too see any proof that they are even capable? and have read many of the older machines are limited with the NONCE'S they can use and apply to solving a block. But the S1 has proven already it can find a share in the Billions unlike the others like this  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=573238.msg6247114#msg6247114.
 It's a long shot still but with a real possibility I would think better odds then any STATE lottery? and Hey worth a Gamble for 25 Bitcoins for a small price of electricity undervolted the payoff could be big ;) That's what I'm going to do ;D


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: Harley997 on July 04, 2014, 08:10:31 AM
Is undervolt same thing as underclock?

Undervolting is changing the voltage to a lower voltage. Since power used is based off the square of the voltage, a small change in volatge can mean big power savings.  But of course it can't run as fast.

Underclocking means turning down the speed (clock speed) that the miner runs at.  This can be done usually without touching the voltage.  Typically most people try to run the fastest clock as the lowest possible voltage needed to get them to the desired clock.
In other words they both are ways to increase electrical efficiency of the machines while reducing overall hashrate.


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: ALToids on July 04, 2014, 11:47:31 AM
Is undervolt same thing as underclock?

Undervolting is changing the voltage to a lower voltage. Since power used is based off the square of the voltage, a small change in volatge can mean big power savings.  But of course it can't run as fast.

Underclocking means turning down the speed (clock speed) that the miner runs at.  This can be done usually without touching the voltage.  Typically most people try to run the fastest clock as the lowest possible voltage needed to get them to the desired clock.
In other words they both are ways to increase electrical efficiency of the machines while reducing overall hashrate.

Undervolting will significantly increase the efficiency per watt, you may not necessarily see a decrease in hashrate.

Underclocking will significantly decrease the hashrate, you may not necessarily see a increase in efficiency.


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: Harley997 on July 04, 2014, 10:58:46 PM
Is undervolt same thing as underclock?

Undervolting is changing the voltage to a lower voltage. Since power used is based off the square of the voltage, a small change in volatge can mean big power savings.  But of course it can't run as fast.

Underclocking means turning down the speed (clock speed) that the miner runs at.  This can be done usually without touching the voltage.  Typically most people try to run the fastest clock as the lowest possible voltage needed to get them to the desired clock.
In other words they both are ways to increase electrical efficiency of the machines while reducing overall hashrate.

Undervolting will significantly increase the efficiency per watt, you may not necessarily see a decrease in hashrate.

Underclocking will significantly decrease the hashrate, you may not necessarily see a increase in efficiency.
If undervolting would not necessarily decrease the hashrate then why would everyone not do this to increase profitability?


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: ThomasCrowne on July 04, 2014, 11:38:43 PM
Looks like it will run at a loss in a month or two, at least for people like me who pays $0.20 / kWh.

What then? There should be people around with super cheap electricity who can squeeze a few hundred bucks out of it. But I don't know where/how to sell and what the price shipping will be (Im not in the US).

Using it for heating is an option. But then I need to underclock and get a more silent fan. All those cables etc won't look nice either.

What are your plans?


You could always shut them down and hold onto them in the hopes that bitcoin price will rise faster than difficulty (it likely won't).  Otherwise, your much better off just selling them now and getting what you can for them.  ASIC hardware depreciates quicker faster than pretty much any other hardware on earth that I'm aware of.


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: bitcoinbelieve on July 05, 2014, 04:10:35 AM
Is undervolt same thing as underclock?

Undervolting is changing the voltage to a lower voltage. Since power used is based off the square of the voltage, a small change in volatge can mean big power savings.  But of course it can't run as fast.

Underclocking means turning down the speed (clock speed) that the miner runs at.  This can be done usually without touching the voltage.  Typically most people try to run the fastest clock as the lowest possible voltage needed to get them to the desired clock.
In other words they both are ways to increase electrical efficiency of the machines while reducing overall hashrate.

Undervolting will significantly increase the efficiency per watt, you may not necessarily see a decrease in hashrate.

Underclocking will significantly decrease the hashrate, you may not necessarily see a increase in efficiency.

That doesn't make sense. If you limit the voltage, doesn't it automatically decrease in hashrate? Anyway, I'm going to do both to see if there is any difference


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: ALToids on July 05, 2014, 07:18:21 AM
Is undervolt same thing as underclock?

Undervolting is changing the voltage to a lower voltage. Since power used is based off the square of the voltage, a small change in volatge can mean big power savings.  But of course it can't run as fast.

Underclocking means turning down the speed (clock speed) that the miner runs at.  This can be done usually without touching the voltage.  Typically most people try to run the fastest clock as the lowest possible voltage needed to get them to the desired clock.
In other words they both are ways to increase electrical efficiency of the machines while reducing overall hashrate.

Undervolting will significantly increase the efficiency per watt, you may not necessarily see a decrease in hashrate.

Underclocking will significantly decrease the hashrate, you may not necessarily see a increase in efficiency.
If undervolting would not necessarily decrease the hashrate then why would everyone not do this to increase profitability?

When a retailer like Intel ships a CPU, it has been tested to see what is the minimum power need to run at a certain speed (part of the binning process).  They bump up the power used by the chip just to ensure stability.  A lot of people who are enthusiasts run at stock speed and just lower the voltage.  If you don't like tweaking, Intel sells variants like the 3470S which is a low power version of the 3470 which they have tested to be able to run lower voltage and be stable.

Most miner companies will bump up the power just for stability in higher temp areas.


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: ALToids on July 05, 2014, 07:20:18 AM
Is undervolt same thing as underclock?

Undervolting is changing the voltage to a lower voltage. Since power used is based off the square of the voltage, a small change in volatge can mean big power savings.  But of course it can't run as fast.

Underclocking means turning down the speed (clock speed) that the miner runs at.  This can be done usually without touching the voltage.  Typically most people try to run the fastest clock as the lowest possible voltage needed to get them to the desired clock.
In other words they both are ways to increase electrical efficiency of the machines while reducing overall hashrate.

Undervolting will significantly increase the efficiency per watt, you may not necessarily see a decrease in hashrate.

Underclocking will significantly decrease the hashrate, you may not necessarily see a increase in efficiency.

That doesn't make sense. If you limit the voltage, doesn't it automatically decrease in hashrate? Anyway, I'm going to do both to see if there is any difference

Not necessarily.  See my post above.  The i5-3470 and the i5-3470S that Intel sells are more or less the same CPU, just Intel had a higher quality on the 3470S chips and bins them as such.

Since each miner's chip is different, you have to trial and error.


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: Harley997 on July 06, 2014, 07:32:53 PM
Is undervolt same thing as underclock?

Undervolting is changing the voltage to a lower voltage. Since power used is based off the square of the voltage, a small change in volatge can mean big power savings.  But of course it can't run as fast.

Underclocking means turning down the speed (clock speed) that the miner runs at.  This can be done usually without touching the voltage.  Typically most people try to run the fastest clock as the lowest possible voltage needed to get them to the desired clock.
In other words they both are ways to increase electrical efficiency of the machines while reducing overall hashrate.

Undervolting will significantly increase the efficiency per watt, you may not necessarily see a decrease in hashrate.

Underclocking will significantly decrease the hashrate, you may not necessarily see a increase in efficiency.
If undervolting would not necessarily decrease the hashrate then why would everyone not do this to increase profitability?

When a retailer like Intel ships a CPU, it has been tested to see what is the minimum power need to run at a certain speed (part of the binning process).  They bump up the power used by the chip just to ensure stability.  A lot of people who are enthusiasts run at stock speed and just lower the voltage.  If you don't like tweaking, Intel sells variants like the 3470S which is a low power version of the 3470 which they have tested to be able to run lower voltage and be stable.

Most miner companies will bump up the power just for stability in higher temp areas.
If using a lower voltage is less stable, wouldn't that mean that the average hashrate (over 1 day, for example) would be lower, while the shorter term hashrate would be the same as not undervolting?


Title: Re: Antminer S1 Soon at a Loss - What to do With It?
Post by: ALToids on July 06, 2014, 09:49:48 PM
Is undervolt same thing as underclock?

Undervolting is changing the voltage to a lower voltage. Since power used is based off the square of the voltage, a small change in volatge can mean big power savings.  But of course it can't run as fast.

Underclocking means turning down the speed (clock speed) that the miner runs at.  This can be done usually without touching the voltage.  Typically most people try to run the fastest clock as the lowest possible voltage needed to get them to the desired clock.
In other words they both are ways to increase electrical efficiency of the machines while reducing overall hashrate.

Undervolting will significantly increase the efficiency per watt, you may not necessarily see a decrease in hashrate.

Underclocking will significantly decrease the hashrate, you may not necessarily see a increase in efficiency.
If undervolting would not necessarily decrease the hashrate then why would everyone not do this to increase profitability?

When a retailer like Intel ships a CPU, it has been tested to see what is the minimum power need to run at a certain speed (part of the binning process).  They bump up the power used by the chip just to ensure stability.  A lot of people who are enthusiasts run at stock speed and just lower the voltage.  If you don't like tweaking, Intel sells variants like the 3470S which is a low power version of the 3470 which they have tested to be able to run lower voltage and be stable.

Most miner companies will bump up the power just for stability in higher temp areas.
If using a lower voltage is less stable, wouldn't that mean that the average hashrate (over 1 day, for example) would be lower, while the shorter term hashrate would be the same as not undervolting?

Hashrate would be lower if the voltage is not adequate for performing the compute function without error.  For computers, people use burn in tests like Pi-24 or Prime to confirm the system is stable.  For a miner you could just keep dropping the voltage until it becomes unstable, then raise it a little to guarantee stability.

End users have time to do this, typically companies  don't.