Bitcoin Forum

Interest in decentralized DNS in general and Namecoin (http://dot-bit.org) in particular is rising again. The day might come these systems will prevent Bitcoin from being oppressed. I recommend every Bitcoin project or company to be accessible via a .bit domain or shortcut domain.

Khal has developed a new easy and elegant way for everybody to access .bit domains via a small OS configuration change (dns suffix). Install now (http://dot-bit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=463)!

To gain more attention to the Namecoin project I will sell one two letter .bit domain every 24~48 hours.
10% of the price will go into a Namecoin marketing and development fund (http://dot-bit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=473&p=2694).

I will stop each round at a random time more than 24h after start.
Make your bid in the thread. It is only valid once I know the domain you are interested in. Let me know in the thread or by PM.
(I need to know the domain up front so the next round can start right away with the previous domain removed.)
Minimum bid: ...
(all bids in btc, payment in nmc possible converted by the highest bid on http://exchange.bitparking.com at round stop time)
If you don't state otherwise and your domain is still available your bid will roll over to the next round.
Money first.
Once you get one of the domains you need to send me a namecoin address to send the domain to. You can also send me an IP to point the domain to.
This offer is limited to one domain per forum member with at least 50 posts.

Round001 - finished.
Round002 - finished.
Round003 - finished (fv).
Status: Round004 - pending.
Round004 will start with the first legitimate bid.

Available Namecoin .bit domains:

God I fucking hate domain squatters.  The scummy underbelly of the major TLDs and now in Namecoin as well.

You guys are suck fucksticks, I hope you die.  Well, if it's not you, it's some other cockgobbler doing it, so might was well make a buck, huh?

So these domains will only work if people change DNS settings to forward requests to another site?

so what gives them value?

anyone could do this.

this

The domains if you order them through the site are only 1.5btc. So depending on how much people bid I would assume if he makes at least .5 btc on each x 300. Would be 150btc (697.50$ at current market rate) and that would just be profit.

I want one but I only have 25 posts. If there is an exception I will bid 2.01btc.

If you register them yourself with a namecoind it looks like they are 0.03 NMC (0.015 name_new and 0.015 name_firstupdate). That's about 0.00012 BTC per domain. I don't think I'd use the registrar and pay 1.5 BTC if I was going to buy that many.

I don't want to make an exception already for the first round. the point is to make sure these domains go to different people, potential supporters of namecoin.

If nobody else objects I could reserve the domain you are interested in. but if I remove it from the list people will know which one it is.

(more answers coming :)

Welcome to planet earth.

While I find your point somewhat extreme and have no time to waste fighting you about it, would very much enjoy discussing it in a civilized manner.

What do you think about the bitcoin early adopters?
What about property and real estate, gold, basic resources?

This is speculation in a free market, it makes the system work. Communism is the alternative beautiful idea but unfortunately it does not seem to work well with humans.

I registered these domains some time last year when the price of coins was plummeting after the (inevitable) switch to merged mining. A while before I started I stated publicly that domains were too cheap.

If an average squatter makes a 100% profit, to what percentage would the profit have to drop so that it would be protecting the domains from squatters?


What about your pool by the way? Why don't you close it and tell your users to use p2pool, which would be much healthier for bitcoin? Well, I enjoy using it, especially the namecoins I mine at your pool   :P

when I registered them domains were still more expensive

from your user ID you should have had the chance to buy bitcoins relatively cheap. why don't you hand them out to the people that came later? what is the difference between squatting domains and coins? sure there are differences but there are some overlaps, too.

by adding a dns suffix it is now possible to only send .bit domain requests to special namecoin dns servers. (at the moment only khal's server, dns suffix support probably in beta)

the point is that the ips the domains are directed to are tracked and maintained in a decentralized network. namecoin is a bitcoin fork (the first?) that can be merge mined with bitcoin (the first fork to support it?).

you can also run the namecoin client for dns requests locally and be totally independent from dns servers. it should be harder to shut down the namecoin dns system than to change/delete the entries in the 13 root dns servers in the world. There is a theoretic chance this might happen to oppress bitcoin for example.

consequently there are approaches to add namecoin support to opendns, i2p, tor.

Your comparisons are not valid, unfortunately.  Early adopters of a service, or people buying low/selling high, real estate, gold, basic resources, etc... are an entirely different modality. 

Those things are commodity items or limited resources.  You could potentially make the case that real estate is similar and I would be consent.  However, domain squatting is something entirely different.  The point and intention of the domain name system is to translate from words to numbers, which is where the real estate comparison breaks down, never mind all the other comparisons, which have nothing to do with it.

What you are doing is breaking the DNS system by squatting the domains (but like I said, if not you, it would be someone else).  The DNS system is intended to allow individuals (companies, people, etc...) to properly translate their human readable/memorizable/understandable words into ineternet assigned numbers.  By squatting you are preventing this from happening and/or holding it for ransom.  It's an unfortunate consequence of how DNS was designed, to be open and virtually unmanaged... while it allows/allowed freedom of action by anyone and everyone, with that freedom came the cheaters and stealers looking to make a quick buck.

Comparison to communism is somewhat apt, but it's more of a morality thing.  It's more like stealing and then selling the stolen goods back to the person... although that analogy breaks down as well due to the fact that the person likely did not own it prior to the transaction.  So I guess you could look at it like a combination of theft and communism.  You're taking more than your share of the loaves of bread, so someone, somewhere, is not going to get a loaf without paying you for it.

So that's why I don't plan on closing down the pool, since I don't run a hoppable pool, no one is getting more than their fair share at the expense of others.

The bread picture would work well for bitcoins, too...

Especially these two letter domains I consider very similar to resources. Many people could use them. I bought them and if I'm lucky will be able to sell them for more. It has nothing to do with theft. In the meantime I have a strong interest to improve Namecoin and make it more popular --> free market is perfectly working.


I don't see much option to distribute domains other than "first come first serve" or some kind of...  auction. :D 

Of course the initial price for registration should not be too low.  ::)

But for bitcoins, each and every bitcoin is the same, rather than domain names, where the name matters.
There's a big difference between mining a block early on, and spamming registrations. Imagine what will happen if i registered all the top 10k English words in namecoin (it will only take a mere 1.2 BTC), and resell it. Would that be fair to other users?
So you are here to make a quick buck. ::)

yezz, but I by doing so I will save bitcoinzees from badse governments  :D

First, how does domain squatting improve bitcoin or namecoin?  it just destroys namecoin, exactly like domain squatters destroyed the TLDs. 

It's exactly like theft.  You are taking an item and reselling.  The intent of the DNS is to translate names for those intending to use them.  You are not intending to use them, thus you are stealing them.  DNS names are not intended to be resold or held without a legitimate purpose.  It's just an unfortunate side effect of the design of the system that allows you to do so.  You are exploiting that.

of course I am exploiting a weakness but that is the core of a free market.

it is not theft. I am not taking it, I am buying it from the registration instance, kinda like an ipo. If I wander along the country side (not owned by anybody) and find a gold nugget and sell it - is that theft?

Also it does not destroy Namecoin but quite the opposite. It is like I hold shares of Namecoin. If I am doing a good job as a squatter I will now do what I can do make it flourish.

Have you considered registering a .bit domain for your pool? I will not dare to touch it but soon somebody will get the idea to register all .bit names for bitcoin related websites and pools. I just hope the guy will not be too greedy.

That's what I don't like - overly greedy domain squatters. Also it stinks that namecoin.com/.org do not point to the project.

Round001 - on hold. Will restart as new with the first legitimate bid.

The 50 posts limit is removed for now so any verified forum member can bid.
edit: Money first.

"Auctions may optionally be placed in this section."

I considered but decided against it. a) I have zero experience with that subsection. b) I thought it would be uncomfortable and messy.

So my bid counts?  ;)

You keep trying to equate your exploitation of a weakness in the inherent design of the system with natural resources.  Natural resources were not designed with a specific purpose in mind, they just exist to be utilized in whatever manner the user sees fit.  The DNS system was not designed that way, it was simply an unfortunate consequence.  You are trying to justify your actions and it doesn't work.  Yes, you are absolutely stealing, if from no one else then you are stealing from Paul Mockapetris, since it would all be linked back to him as the first owner.  He did not authorize you to take it and he disagrees with your taking it, therefore you have stolen it.

Your justification is like trying to say "Well, this GPL software left the source available, so I can do whatever I want with it."  Wrong.


Again, completely wrong.  You destroy namecoin, just like the TLDs have been wrecked due to squatters.  I can't go out and register a TLD for my own use for a project because virtually all English words have been registered, with most of them being held by squatters.  It would be a different matter if the domain I wanted was being actively used by another company, individual, etc... but most are not.  Just like you are not using them.  It wrecks the system.  You are damaging Namecoin by doing so - making it as difficult and frustrating to use as regular DNS.


I have, and find it not worth the effort.  I have exactly zero faith that namecoin will go anywhere, so I really don't care.  There are too many flaws in the namecoin system for it to succeed.  The only thing NMC is, is a temporary additional incoming to mining BTC.  


Haha, this is priceless.  You don't like overly greedy domain squatters, yet you are being overly greedy yourself.  You are charging someone (or hoping to, anyway) more than what it costs to register it themselves, therefore you are being overly greedy.  If you were just holding the domains and then giving them out at cost to the appropriate people, we wouldn't be having this conversation.  

I also love how you think it stinks that namecoin.org/net don't point to the project due to squatters, but you somehow think it's ok for you to do the same thing.  Pot, meet kettle.

With this post of your's it does  ;)


Round001 - restarted.


Start time: torrentmaster's post above (#24)

Current highest bid: 2.01btc (torrentmaster)

from what I understand I could not edit the first post then. how would I remove sold domains?

Would you be afraid of me changing the offer or other bidders changing their bids?

The more I look at it the more convinced I am. Could you point me to the flaws in the namecoin thread, on the namecoin forum or by pm? If bitcoin works I don't see why namecoin should not.

I would buy namecoin.com/.org for 2btc any day.

I don't need to point you to any threads, I can show you why right here:


Until Joe Average can resolve a .bit domain with zero special configuration, it is full of fail.  Seeing as Alternet is basically a failure, there is absolutely no way Namecoin is going to succeed where Alternet has failed.


But you can't because the squatter wants 500x the cost of registering it.  You are charging a MINIMUM bid of 16,000x ... so who's the unreasonable squatter in this instance?  The guy charging 500x the cost or 16,000x the cost?  Heh.

like bitcoin will fail because it is so difficult to install...  ::)

seriously, by now it is as easy as adding a line / registry key.

for Linux :
In '/etc/resolv.conf', replace or add the line starting with 'search' :
search namecoin-suffix.dot-bit.org


hehe nice profit :P   how did you get to that number? it's way off and also you forget all the hard labor  :D

Bitcoin, as it stands right this moment, will/would fail on anything other than a niche market.  It's improving and changing, so it has a chance.  DNS is not changing, Namecoin is not changing... it's terminally died to the DNS structure.  Until Microsoft adds alternate TLD support to the OS by default, it's a bag of failure.  You are deluding yourself if you think otherwise.  

Please, by all means, tell me why Alternet failed then if it's "so easy" for the average user? Alternet is superior to the current TLD structure in almost every way, yet it's a failure.  Why on earth do you think Namecoin has a chance?


How did I get those numbers?  It's easy, I figure $10/year for registration of a .net. Namecoin.net is listed at $5000 (but to be fair, they say "price negociable (sic)")... so that is 500x the cost of a domain registration.

You are charging 2 BTC minimum for your NMC domains.  Registering an namecoin domain is .03 NMC, which at the current NMC to BTC exchange rate is .00012 BTC.  16666 * .00012 is 1.99992... round off a bit and you're at just under 16667x the cost.  I was being generous with the 16000x.

So yeah, you are the bigger rip off artist than the Namecoin.net squatter.

Your "hard labor" isn't worth 16,000x the cost.  My numbers are not way off... but I look forward to hearing how you justify a 16,000x markup.  I know you are going to use the excuse that they were more expensive when you registered it, so lets be generous and say it was .3 per domain instead of .03, which NMC domain registrations were *never* that high... so you are raping people for 1600x instead of 16000x.  Wow, how magnanimous.

So yeah, you complaining about the price of namecoin.net at 500x markup, while you are charging 16,000x (or 1600x, being unreasonably generous) markup is laughable.

dns suffix configuration is exactly that - or do you mean namecoin support by default? that will take a while :)

are you sure about the name? could not find anything about it. but for the other alternative dns attempts: they were not decentralized. Was there any you could use in addition to your normal dns server, ie for unresolved names only?

the day a government tries to shut down bitcoin everybody will jump the namecoin train. also there are attempts to make it work with opendns, i2p, tor. the time certainly has come for an alternative dns system.



How did I get those numbers?  It's easy, I figure $10/year for registration of a .net. Namecoin.net is listed at $5000 (but to be fair, they say "price negociable (sic)")... so that is 500x the cost of a domain registration.

You are charging 2 BTC minimum for your NMC domains.  Registering an namecoin domain is .03 NMC, which at the current NMC to BTC exchange rate is .00012 BTC.  16666 * .00012 is 1.99992... round off a bit and you're at just under 16667x the cost.  I was being generous with the 16000x.

So yeah, you are the bigger rip off artist than the Namecoin.net squatter.

Your "hard labor" isn't worth 16,000x the cost.  My numbers are not way off... but I look forward to hearing how you justify a 16,000x markup.  I know you are going to use the excuse that they were more expensive when you registered it, so lets be generous and say it was .3 per domain instead of .03, which NMC domain registrations were *never* that high... so you are raping people for 1600x instead of 16000x.  Wow, how magnanimous.

So yeah, you complaining about the price of namecoin.net at 500x markup, while you are charging 16,000x (or 1600x, being unreasonably generous) markup is laughable.

[/quote]

I have bought namecoin domains when they were still 50NMC and also nmc was worth much more. these domains were somewhere in the middle.

the profit factor being high is only a low base effect. In absolute terms it is cheap as hell. you pointed out the $5000. of course there is uncertainty, so it is a matter of speculation and belief.

would you mind me registering your pool name .bit and pointing it to your ip? you would have to add it as an external ip to work (was very easy and fast with my web hoster).

Round001 - finished.


Winner is TorrentMaster - congratulations!

I will send you a pm with details.

Try searching on "alternic"

I don't know what you mean by "use in addition to your DNS server." Namevoin and alternic function the same: different/alternate TLDs. Alternic was comparitively huge and yet it failed... if you think the decentralized nature of nmc makes any difference you are sorely mistaken alternic failed because it was not included by default in any is resolution system. Neither is namecoin and it won't be. That is why it is doomed to failure.

It may be technically superior in every way but it will never overcome the inertia of entrenched DNS. Until my Mom has a reason to NOT use standard DNS, nobody but a very small subset of nerds are going to care or push to change it.

Like I said. Its been done before (several times) and its all failed. There is no incentive for the entrenched interests to add it to or change the current DNS system. It just. Won't happen. Namecoin is a failure due to political and financial issues, not technical.

Cheap as hell? Starting bid is more than it costs to register a .com! That's not cheap, its highway robbery taken to preposterous levels for a virtually worthless piece of "real estate." 10 bucks for a domain that all of about 20 people can visit, and 19 probably don't care anyway.

As far as registering it, I would rather you not point it to the IP simply because the IP may change and I would not have control over it. I would register it but to be honest I am not even sure what is involved and don't want to have to remember to maintain it.

I'd pay 2 BTC if you could learn me how to register a .bit , and 1btc if you can show me how to resolve them.

I'm joking, I couldn't care less about namecoins.

Googling http://www.google.ca/search?hl=&q=registering+dot+bit ,,, "Price of a new domain : 1.5BTC." is all I got, 1.5btc per .bit , Who is this scammer ? hope he has nothing to do with .bit development.

I was refering to the method of accessing the alternative dns. with namecoin it is now possible to only send requests that failed with the regular dns to the namecoin dns. (via dns suffix that is). the advantage is that this is not messing with or slowing down your normal web experience.

your are missing the vision of all this. :)    also what about sopa acta and the like? you are underestimating the will of governments to mess with the internet.  what about totalitarian countries that viciously control dns servers?

I will pay you ten times the price you state above for a two letter .com domain. you might have a hard time getting one, though  :P

just don't say I did not tell you so.  ;)

fortunately he is free to charge whatever he wants for his service.

also he is the only one to offer a service like this in the whole world...   

Well, in any case, I appreciate the civil discourse and apologize for my initial post's tone, though I remain behind the sentiment quite staunchly.

very kind of you to say so, apology accepted.

I admit it is difficult terrain.

Unfortunately TorrentMaster has not replied to two PMs, though he was active on the forum twice in the meantime. I do not know which domain he bought which is a problem for the next round.

TorrentMaster please answer in this thread or by PM.

I don't want to wait forever so I will continue with Round002 soon. TorrentMaster will have a chance to get his domain at the end of Round002 if it is still available then.

::)   don't think the auction section would have made a difference so far.

just give it a little time. many of the biggest inventions started slow...  e.g. bitcoin  ;)

Round002 - pending.


Round002 will start with the first legitimate bid.

Reestablished the 50 posts minimum.

Once Round002 starts Torrentmaster will have to wait until the end to get his domain if it is still there. This means there is a ~1/300 chance of him not getting the domain he bought because I can not get him to answer me which one it shall be. If he will not answer at all I will consider suggesting a scammer tag but he should have some more time.

From this round on bids will only be valid if I know the domain (PM or thread).

On we go...

saw that one coming, was just not sure from who  :P

edit: I wonder who the first one would be to scream if I did not try whatever I can to enforce the rules.

For your contemplation:

The names offered for sale were registered Dec 5 2011, long after the launch, in blocks 31913-31919.
The cost was 0.48 NMC per domain to register (not the 4.8 NMC it would have been around block 25100, or the 48 NMC it would have been around block 660). The seller also registered letter + number combinations, so if you want g1.bit, he'd be your guy too. They were registered because they were cheap enough, not because of incredible foresight.

Typical block:
http://explorer.dot-bit.org/b/31914

More info: The .01 NMC op_name_new transactions were done the day before: http://explorer.dot-bit.org/b/31787

Price was about .035 - .04 BTC/NMC. (edit: added exchange prices below)

I was gonna dump all the transactions here, but BBcode freaks out because of the size and brackets.
Here's the A letters though:


[
    {
        "name" : "d/ae",
        "value" : "{\"map\": {\"\": \"10.0.0.1\"}}",
        "txid" : "f557ed50b4c5b6531c747bcc9e020a18641912829100005ccf16855bc4476a74",
        "expires_in" : 22932
    }
]
[
    {
        "name" : "d/aj",
        "value" : "{\"map\": {\"\": \"10.0.0.1\"}}",
        "txid" : "a48d1d47a83c300ca96bb33a705b2907a61b98d6d9d580a5773a74f107b31bbd",
        "expires_in" : 22931
    }
]
[
    {
        "name" : "d/ak",
        "value" : "{\"map\": {\"\": \"10.0.0.1\"}}",
        "txid" : "b266ed12592a8bf41efcf422c9aa864ceed6f73192242775f0bfde637b9ef17c",
        "expires_in" : 22931
    }
]
[
    {
        "name" : "d/aq",
        "value" : "{\"map\": {\"\": \"10.0.0.1\"}}",
        "txid" : "77d769718e039d8a02d2155f01a549a96ad2af854a99a025fb89ce81a0b5a3ea",
        "expires_in" : 22931
    }
]
[
    {
        "name" : "d/ay",
        "value" : "{\"map\": {\"\": \"10.0.0.1\"}}",
        "txid" : "0b5b2335338fcd6037f28909dffcdb3c7720757b3e5952f2bd3bfe4b6b231901",
        "expires_in" : 22931
    }
]

thanks for digging that up. do you also [happen] to know the price of nmc back then? I think it was a short time after the merged mining drop.

edit: thanks for reducing the size of that other post

edit2: just as you said, they were cheap enough. and yes I also have registered a couple more  ;D  the first one ~50nmc

Here's a trade I made around that time:
12/07/11 19:36:32    Price:0.01111000 BTC
and they were never expensive:
07/24/11 11:47:31    Price:0.02740000
06/27/11 03:45:45    Price:0.02675002

will remove nx.bit and bx.bit as I consider using them as shortcut domains...


Round002 still waiting for first bid.

2btc bid for tg

Thanks for your bid!

Round002 - running.

Round002 - finished.

tg.bit goes to m4rkiz for 2btc.

I will contact you by pm about the details.


Round003 - pending.

Round003 will start with the first valid bid.

my address MwWjGPDfWh15KqKCWfhzNE1WcNNZp16rai

if you don't mind i would also put 2 BTC bid for sg.bit

money received, domain transfered. 310c8554193bc673056b46af60b6fcbc7453d83d593db323b9d749291a07db11

thanks. looking forward to seeing something under this domain.


sorry, for now it's only one domain per forum member. I will reserve it and let you know should I reconsider.

Round003 still pending.

ok, let me know if you change your mind

i got TG already, everything went smooth

fund info updated

removed http://nf.bit - I may want to use it as a shortcut to the namecoin forum at http://dot-bit.org/forum

edit: it is done.

finally it's done and works!

Round 3 bid: 2 BTC.

hey!  target domain checked in.

Round003 - finished. fv.bit sold to Luceo for 2BTC, congrats! Will pm with details.

Round004 - pending - will start with the first legitimate bid.

is this auction still going? if so, I am assuming the price is not still 2BTC?
just wondering

If you are interested send an offer by pm. Letting me know what you want to do with it might soften my disposition ;)

I gave away d/jr and d/vl