Bitcoin Forum

In recent months (years?), we have been bombarded with an uneding series of coins from fresh, brand new alt accounts. In the past month alone, I've lost count at the number of 'anon' coins released with accompanying kiddie whitepapers. That, by itself,  is not the problem.

The problem lies in how this anonymity allows a 'dev' to easily create multiple accounts to release multiple coins designed exlusively for exchange pump and dumps and IPO scams.

By enacting a minimum activity count requirement for ANN thread starters, say, 100 activity, these 'devs' will have to invest time in the forum before being able to launch their coins.

Some would argue that people can still nurture alt accounts to fulfill the 100 activity requirement, or even just purchase accounts.
However, the post history behind these accounts will still be valuable for forum participants to judge the merits of the claims made by individual developers.
An account that spent 3 weeks collecting giveaways before suddenly announcing the launch of a fancy new coin will hardly be taken seriously, right?

Some would even argue that scams, P&D and fake IPOs can be perpetrated by established members. Sure, but they can only do it once using that account.

The mods of this forum are known for their grinding, bureacratic anti-change policy.
But if enough people lend their support to this proposal, I believe they might just eventually be sufficiently motivated to make this change.

Unless there is some really, really, super good reason that I cannot possibly imagine, there is absolutely no logical reason why we should continue to allow coins to be released by zero-post alt accounts.

What say you?

You do realize it used to be that way already but staff removed it right ?

and i agree.. you got my support.

I wasn't aware of that. Did they give a reason for the removal, Spoetnik?

I have no idea why they removed the so called "Nooby Jail"
it was not exactly as you proposed but sort of similar..

i also do not know exactly when it was pulled either but it was many months back.
there was no warning to us at all either it just happened randomly and quietly behind our backs.

kind of sleazy.. that is not what i signed up for

I see. Thank you for the explanation.

not sure if scams are possible to be avoided in generally, but BCT not allowing giveaways has pissed off quiet many people i think

i just seen a story with GITHUB
http://torrentfreak.com/mpaa-pulls-popcorn-time-off-github-140711/

what that made me think is if we complained maybe Github would take these crap coins down ?

or better yet if Regulation is imposed all it's going to take is a call from the Feds and mass coins will get pulled.
In a normal stock market type industry most of these so called coins would be considered Ponzi / Pyramid schemes
and guys would get jail time !
They would also get a lot of jail time for insider trading and fraud..
and it does not look good when this place deliberately aids this activity.. they may soon be on a slippery slope legally.. not smart !
It's one thing for them to sit there and play dumb vs making it easier on purpose to post digital pyramid schemes.

I think guys better start using there brain because if Regulations are imposed there could be instant arrests on the spot all over !
And regulations can be added and imposed very fast too.

I think the FBI etc have been here with us all along too.. they usually do investigations that span many years.

But hey, do what ya want see if i care.. i won't be the one doing jail time with Martha Stewart or Berni Madoff and his associates.
His associates tried the playing dumb defense in court and it failed miserably and they were given jail time for their support of Ponzi schemes.

It can't be eradicate completely, I agree, but reducing it would be a good start.
Just to share with you, I stumbled across two 'devs' in the past 2 weeks with a total of five coins.
I told an exchange owner (and provided evidence) that one of the devs, with a coin just added the previous week, was trying to get another one listed.
The exchange owner laughed, and the next day, the second coin was listed.  ???

I am not familiar with the situation with the giveaways, but I can sort of imagine why it was banned and why coin owners would be annoyed with it.

I don't think we could do this. Do you think it/they/Github could/would?


Yes, that is true. I've read how the FBI would sometimes spend up to a decade on cases.
But the jurisdictional constraints would be enormous here.

well i hope guys realize it's not MY interpretation of law they need to be concerned about lol

and the exchange story is typical.. they know what they are doing.. hell a LOT of exchange staff make / release coins.

from an outsiders perspective this all looks bad.. time to step away and get real perspective in things i think.

a good start is what you suggested for sure !

edit:
i checked other day and there was over 330,000 accounts here !

I wonder how many are fake/sockpuppets

 anotehr 2014 newbie coming out with proposed changes. . If people are stupid and want to invest in these coins then so be it. Even these so called pumps and dumbs have potential for money to be made. just because someone ends up coming out as the loser. Play the game, if you cant, then leave. Simple as that. Bunch of whiny fcking sore losers in this forum now a days. I for one get entertained seeing all these new coins come out, and every single "scam" coin as you put no matter how recycled the coin may be, has potential money to be made. Aside from that, if idiots want to invest in so called IPOS, pay a premium on a coin when coin specs show potential of a dump by developer or momentum trading shows that it is not the time to buy this so called scam coin, you can stay in the clear, make profit and avoid having huge loses. Crying for changes is not the answer here but getting educated is. After all someone else mentioned this in another thread, this is the Wild west of crypto.

people need to learn to stay away from coins that are fully mined within a few days (recent pos-coins).
Also maybe hold off a bit with investing and watch it first for a few weeks before going in. No need for regulation. Grow some brains.
Just be careful with investing in brand new stuff. Better invest in coins that have been around for a while to be more safe. On the other hand requiring 50 to 100 posts is not all that bad.

Really? Your account was created in December of 2013. A mere 18 days from being a "2014 newbie".....

;D

TheCloser, I take it you are comfortable with anonymous 'devs' dominating the ANN thread with their coin releases? I'm not.
To be honest, I'm not sure what research or education anyone can obtain from these new accounts.
I would rather have known developers launching coins. Only then can we conduct proper research.
Yes, there are inherent risks in crypto, but I'd like to think it's more than just the blind luck of the draw.

Anyway, the "wild west of crypto" is not something we should be proud of.
The romanticization of the wild, wild, west - the American frontier - often makes people forget the savagery, lawlessness and ignorance of the era.

wow the excuse train rolls out with the classics as usual  ::)

heard em all before..

and being a noob or not does not change what he said.
i am not a noob and i agree with him and have said the same as him previously lots.
and so have many others.

Your core defense guys is blaming the victim..
A women gets raped ? well she dressed like a slut.. that's about it really.
..pathetic.

I am entitled to scam people it's my right is all i'm hearing..
And NO it's not !

Also it goes way beyond scammyness..
Hell i don't even look at the ANN section since 2014 now.. it's pointless
if there is a good coin in there it's buried to page 30 quick by guys spamming this place with scam coin propaganda
and elaborate games and lies.. one guy recently admitted here he created 60+ accounts simply to pretend to like some new coin.

Either your ignorant and don't know what is going on or your playing dumb .
Either way you guys are a part of the problem.. hell your not "part" of the problem, you ARE the problem.
No reasonable decent human being defends these scammy stunts.. you guys should be ashamed of your selves your despicable !


This is not my web site and they can run it how they want.. and i can ask for it to be improved or warn them they may be in legal trouble soon.

Game over guys.. enjoy your little Scam Free Market™
Because it's rapidly disintegrating and will be virtually destroyed soon enough and those of you that destroyed it WILL be held responsible i will make sure of it !

caveat emptor

moved and buried lol

My goodness!

I doubt it is something as extreme as blaming the victim. Giving power to a few people to govern the larger has never led to any good anywhere.

Just follow the incentives. Scammy coins are popular because there is an incentive to make them. Making it harder to make them (aka min activity, etc) will not remove the incentive. It will only make the pot sweeter and more intelligent and higher quality scams to prevail. So long as there are uninformed idiots buying a coin with the intention to sell it higher to the next uninformed idiot, "hype" and scams will prevail. Cutting off the incentives for making shit coins requires an effort from the "customer" side, not punishment to the "provider" side... ie "people need to stop giving a damn", NOT "scammers need to stop making shitcoins".

Taking the easy way out by regulating the flow of shitcoins, you are inadvertently giving people an incentive to STAY ignorant.  You are artificially shielding them from being accountable for their actions. Its a billboard saying "Do not bother, I will think for the both of us".

A good example for some perspective, is drugs. Making them illegal, made the supply small and demand stay the same. Priced ranged from 30 - 300x the "old" price. This profit margin brought in the incentive to get bigger better smarter more organized people into the scene and the "punishment" drove away the small timers. Fast forward 30 years, you have more potent more addictive more expensive drugs, more crime to pay for the use, and overall blanket fucked up ness that started with the regulation. Now imagine the screnario if the resources spent on enforcing the regulation was spent on reducing the demand.

Its the same with shitcoins. Nothing is going to stop it from balancing it out until the demand for it dwindles. Besides, Bitcointalk is just a medium to announce. Take that away (or limit it) and you are essentially putting forth a void for the next five smart asses to compete for a platform and provide a new better Bitcointalk to fill the void. Which... coming to think of... is not all that bad. The forum structure, navigation, UI, and all is so very 90's and could use an overhaul.

If I may paraphrase you Sony, I think extreme is the keyword here.
Complete deregulation = lawlessness.

Here's an analogy.
Some strongly believe that the medical profession should not be overly regulated.
However, almost everyone agree that medical professionals must be licensed.
That is not a contradicton.

Similarly, I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect that the community is provided with the opportunity to evaluate coin developers' coding abilities, grasp of economics and most importantly, integrity, through their forum discourse.

With regards to your example on drugs, even the most liberal regulations in the world is still, well, regulated.
To be clear though, we are not imposing any regulations here.
These developers are still able to produce their coins according to their own schedule.
However, to enjoy the privilege of announcing their coins on the most influential and lucrative crypto board in the world, they must first become part of the community to ensure they do not exploit community members.

Community members must still conduct their own due diligence before investing - but they will now actually have something to research about.

well said that last sentence is crucial !
give us something to research !
forcing guys to use one well known account *should i think increase accountability..

A few hours ago, Bittrex suspended trading for ELITE (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=702757), a new alt coin with a 20k supply cap released by a brand new dev account.

Reason?

"balance" : 22342.69416214,
    "newmint" : 0.00000000,
    "stake" : 0.00000000,
    "blocks" : 4427,
    "timeoffset" : -7,
    "moneysupply" : 94868.97591348,

That's an effective premine rate of 2,100%.

that is brutal rugrats wow lol

So Satoshi couldn't have posted about Bitcoin? ;D

Nobody cares about alt. crypto, you should appreciate Bitcointalk even hosts that section. I'd like to see the whole section locked.

Even if we did have a min activity then purchased accounts like Free Hugs aka tradefortress could still create threads.

you realize that places like Facebook have turned into a super power from nothing but popularity right ?
the Bitcointalk Altcoin forum has been popular.. get it ?

oh and.. ad revenue ?

oh and mods don't make coins or run misc altcoin services ?

and the whole 1 out of 100 Mexicans can sneak past the border patrol so we should drop guarding the border mentality
it's as bloody stupid as the first time i heard it online.. intelligence = epic fail lol

more Crypto-Excuses™

want to see the top 5 dumb excuses most leaked out of the corners of scammers mouths in crypto ?

[STFU] - Crypto Excuses™ = Shut your Dick Holsters ! (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=708620.0)

I think the 75 it's the right number  ;)

This is very important, and is a good policy of the forum.

If the mods/forum were to attempt to delete any obvious scam that pops up on this forum then by default anything that is not deleted could be deemed to be considered "safe" and as a result a lot more scams would be successful. The vast majority of scams are not obvious that they are scams, but only turn out to be when more questions are asked.

There is no difference between being able to create a thread, and being able to create and ANN thread. So what you are asking, is for people to not be able to create threads until a certain activity count, which wont happen.

I know, right?

Now we have another brand new account trying to raise 500BTC to fund his new coin, the Xcloudcoin (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=702981.0).

You know, if Satoshi's first posts in the old sourceforge forum or Bitcointalk had been about IPOs, Bitcoin would be a stillborn.
Instead, he/she/it/they spent years of his/her/its/their life developing Bitcoin.

A lot of people care about alt coins. Even those who stuck their noses up at alt coins should at least utter a quiet word of thanks to alts. Alt coins have brought a lot of positives to Bitcoin and the world of crypto in general.

According to some, Bitcointalk.org had a similar restriction on the Alt section previously. Are you saying that is not true?
Besides, I've been on other boards where certain sections are off-limits to members below specific qualifying thresholds.

well what about re-instating the old rule but instead of only being able to talk in the Newby section
we could have new guys only able to post in the normal section (and not the ANN section)

see what i mean when comparing the new idea with the old rule that was previously abandoned ? (after i signed up)

i am talking about the restriction that was enforced on me and others when i signed up..
and that went as follows..
simply put, i was not allowed to post in the Main ANN section until my post count got to 16 comments or something like that.
and i think what the majority is saying is lets do that but for just the ANN section..
as in you can't create a topic in the ann section unless you have a certain amount of comments already.
this HAS to be possible because it was ALREADY like this when is signed up LOL

Voted.

Whatever happened to that campaign to stop scamcoins? I totally wanted to be part of that

Further adventures of another new dev.

That's a very interesting perspective on altcoins... can you name these positives please?

Sure. Off the top of my head,

• Altcoins create much needed competition for Bitcoin. Lack of competition leads to monopolies, signals development decay and disincentivize innovations.

• Increased awareness of cryptocurrencies with the general public.

• Increased flow of fiat into cryptocurrencies/ propping up and increasing the trade volume of Bitcoin. Altcoin speculators and investors enter/exit the market using BTC, which is the easiest conversion medium.

• Altcoins provide the testing ground for new/experimental ideas - PoS, Zerocoin, etc.

No, there has never been any restriction on the Alt coin section, people seem to forget that the Alt Coin section isn't one that Bitcointalk especially cares about, its more or less an off topic board so people that wish to talk about alt coins don't post in with Bitcoin discussion. What they were talking about, is that people were confined to the newbie board until they had a few spam posts, and left their account logged on for 4 hours, which was done away with. Now there are just time restrictions on when people can post, rather than cutting them off entirely.


I'm a bit confused by what you mean Main ANN section? We are talking about people making coin ANN threads in the Alt Coin section correct? There isn't anything different about creating a normal thread and an ANN thread, people just put [ANN] in the title. I believe you are talking about Newbie restrictions, back when no one was allowed to post outside of the newbie board, we most likely aren't going back to how that was before. Theymos talked about removing the newbie section for quite a while before moving us over to an Activity system.

Frankly, the forums views the alt coin section similarly to the off topic section. If people want to post that they are stuck in Nigeria and need $1,000 to get home with their $100 Million inheritance, at a certain point its up to people to not be dumb. If people want to invest in poorly made coins that are dead in a week, how is that any different from investing in a startup company on the stock market that fails after launch. Risk vs. Reward, there can be big money to be made in new coins, so people keep throwing money in. Some coins flop, and people still throw money in, so why wouldn't people make new worthless coins to make a buck?


I can, coins showing up in your wallet, "unconfirmed" before they have had a single confirmation was a feature first shown in Solidcoin. Back in day, if you bought Bitcoins from someone, they had 10 minutes to run and hide before you knew if they had scammed you or not. Now, when someone says, "coins sent" in a few seconds you see that they were sent, and they are just unconfirmed.

One option is missing: "nobody should be abble to post ANN threads"
problem solved...

I should have mentioned, what I really mean by Alt Currencies being essentially an off topic section, is that I highly doubt any additional time is going to go into it at this moment. There is promise of a revised system with the new forum software, however Theymos and the software development team aren't going to bother fixing a temporary issue. Its just not a section with a high priority.

Enabling. Enabler. Victim blaming. Reverse special treatment.

Bitcointalk's refusal to even consider reigning in this behavior, enables scam artists to execute con after con after con here. This makes Bitcointalk an enabler. Victim blaming enables and encourages these cons, when there is absolutely no reason why cons should be tolerated.

Ideologically speaking (since Theymos appears to manage this board in libertarian vein), free enterprise should be allowed to flourish, but special dispensation should never be made to enable dishonest people to defraud a large majority. The ability to post using alt accounts is a special dispensation, as it allows people to hide their identity. This is NOT free market capitalism as one party holds an institutionalized advantage. Regardless of whether Theymos is a paleo, neo or Rothbardian libertarian, regardless of how everyone despises the alt coin section, this is an example of a central authority intentionally handicapping a segment of the population. There is a great imbalance there that requires adjustment.

Full members and above, so 120+ activity

4 months is enough for a serious user learn everything needed to launch a good coin, while 4 months is enough to make most scammers impatient.

Do you realized that with this kind of rules anybody can buy an old accound and make what he wants ?

Read all the first post:

What about Anonymity ?
What if I want to make a new coin but don't want to link it to me ? It is an open source project , so I don't see why I need to be its flagbearer.

Just like in the Lending or Gambling section (ahem , Ponzi section) , you need to think before you blindly invest in something.
Stopping people from anonymously posting new coins just because you are butthurt from a bad investment is a bad idea.

What about anonymity?
Whose stopping anyone from remaining anonymous?
I suggest you spend time reading through the thread first before commenting rather than creating straw man arguments.

saying *again the alt section is not important etc is kind of dumb.
it's a major draw for people to come here.
and it's the most popular place on earth to post coins.. so who cares ? gimme a break  ::)

i think common sense goes a long way..

i have never seen or heard of a place that would allow people to abuse the account creation powers.
then factor in it's a tool for scammers they rely on heavily that is as Rugrats just put enabling them
i have to step back and say wow and wtf ?

i smells poor excuses ..that is it.

and WHY would staff enable this behavior ?
i seen one of these guys say make a new account if you have "something controversial to say"
excuse fail lol

do what ever you want.. hopefully some other place gets popular then we can be done with this.
all the user agree we want rules and the coin cloners and their shell accounts defend it lol
and we get told who cares.. your all not important.. but the scammers are !

ever thought of doing something about it ?
how about posting a rule forbidding useless blatant clone coins ? or scam coins etc ?
any other forum on earth would not tolerate this crap what so ever..

The latest adventure of the brand new devs.

Today, we'll be taking a look at Mr. Darren Palmer, the CEO of PayProcoin and 'Instant Bitcoin', who cleared 40 million coins during its IPO ICO earlier this month. Sadly, Mr. Palmer claimed he was subjected to a coordinated attack by fudsters, which according to him, led to the closure of his bank, Paypal and Virvox accounts. So now Mr. Palmer must close his 'holding company' "until I find a solution and my funds returned."

Strangely, upon hearing the news of a bounty being placed on his head earlier today, our Mr. Palmer had this to say, as related by Nyterax.


Clearly, the only way to prevent such blatant scams from recurring in future is by banning mining pools from posting in ANN threads.  ::)

ok that made me laugh pretty damn hard !

they keep getting these same topics posted and people keep asking for this unaware they are being tucked away in "meta" lol

i am not saying i have the best answers but i think *something should be done.
and the major reason i say so is not to stifle freedom and combat scams..
it's just because it's a nasty mess trying to sift through the ANN section :(

I've never seen so many complaints about people having the right to choose. Do you really want some dudes on a forum deciding what you should be able to invest your money in? If you feel their should be controls of some sorts, then do it, and stop expecting someone else to do it for you. Make an Altcoin Business Bureau or whatever you think will help. I had hopes for that scamcoin buster thing a while back, but it seems to have fizzled out.

Restricting accounts will not work. Do you honestly think the scams are just some random newbie that shows up, then leaves? There are rings of scammers operating here. It's the same on any forum revolving around finance, this isn't a phenomenon located just here. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find out the majority of them are by the same two or three groups. If we restrict newbies from posting, then we'll just see proxy posts, people paying someone else to post it for them. Then every announcement thread will be prefaced with  *Not my coin, just posting this thread*. Or bought accounts, which will just be considered the cost of doing business by scammers. No matter what restrictions we put on accounts, they'll get around it. Need to be a Junior member to make a thread? If I were a scammer, I'd just make 50 accounts today, 50 accounts tomorrow, 50 more the day after that, etc. After a few weeks I'm back in business, with tons of disposable accounts to cull the suckers who now have a false sense of security. Pay to post? Just look at how many donators/VIP members turned out to be scammers for proof that no amount is high enough to deter scammers. I remember seeing one scammer post in scammer accusations, he said he made 5k+ a month here, and had been for several months. He's probably still here.  

People are too used to having someone else hold their hand. Many people just don't want to take responsibility for their own actions, and don't want to admit they're gullible, greedy idiots, so they run here to post about how it's totally everyone else's fault, and the forum should have stopped it somehow.

You have the freedom to choose, make your choices wisely.

I get the impression that you didn't even bother reading the thread before commenting, because most of the points you raised have already been rebutted.

This is not about the right to choose.
This is not about handholding.
This is not about people being gullible, greedy or stupid (which is disrespectful, btw).

This is about Bitcointalk creating an environment that enables and even encourages scammers. It has reached a point where it is far more lucrative to scam than to develop a proper product. Why should developers spend months developing a project when the present broken system allows them make 10, 100 or 500BTC in merely days or weeks? Do you understand the gravity of the situation and the harm it is doing to cryptocurrency?

Segue: Your rule about pool spamming wasn't a well thought out move. It was an overreaction to a very small problem. I don't really care on how the rule affects pools, but as I've mentioned in the pinned thread, you have merely removed another layer of protection

While I'm pleased to report that several devs are starting to use their primary account, the menace of the brand new dev remains.

Today, the spotlight is on Orgamiscoin (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=720924.0), featuring the revolutionary PoX (Proof of Sex) protocol.
Basically, miners mine the coin by using a sex toy - I kid you not.

We also have Cryptographic Triangles (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=728567.0), whose dev answer questions with a "Because you know why". The mysterious developer, 3angle, paid for the coin to be listed, and disappeared soon after. No wallet/s are listed in the OP, and the block explorer is down. We can only speculate how much he earned form this blatant scam. The victims were mostly speculators from outside this board.

XGT Legit Currency! (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=721132.100)


Dev Profile (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=361050)

I missed this post by Carsen Klock.