Bitcoin Forum

Can a mod please move this to the appropriate forum? I'm being told that securities is a better spot for this.

Reposted for self moderation to prevent forum trolls from derailing.

I have an AWESOME new Bitcoin game that I need some help building and I'm going to try to see if crowd funding will work to make that happen. This game is completely original and it's absolutely guaranteed to be a hit. I will be doing phone calls and giving a break down of the specifics to qualified potential investors. I do not wish to release the business plan to the general public at this early stage but I will be covering things with far greater detail with individual investors by phone.

I am attempting to raise a total of 700 BTC for a 40% share in the company. The minimum entry amount per investor will be 2.5 BTC. As soon as the 700 BTC goal is reached, we will take on no more investors because I believe we will have enough seed money to be able to develop and market a robust, bug free and extremely popular active game that is seeing impressive ROI. Investors will receive a 40% distribution each month of the game profit based on the percentage of your investment to the 700 BTC goal. Once the company has a positive cash flow investors can 'cash in' their share at any time and receive their entire original investment back as well as keep all distributions they have received until that point. Investors can also sell / transfer their share at any point. All investors will get a monthly report outlining the financials, milestones and future goals.

The investment will be used for:

-2 Full time programmers for development (3 months)
-1 Full time designer
-6 Months 1 Full time programmer (post beta) for on going development, optimization and bugs
-6 Months of Customer Service (tbd)
-6 Months of Marketing and Advertising
-6 Months of Staffing as needed
-Misc costs of running the business such as rent / utilities, hosting, legal and other bills

I believe the game will be profitable in far less time (and you will too when you hear what it is) but I'm planning a safe road.

I am a US resident and I have built, run and managed many companies in the past. One of them being very similar to this.

I will ask that all potential investors be prepared to sign an NDA since it is very early on and the last thing we need is someone trying to clone this

Please PM me if you're interested so we can set up a call and I can get in to more details with you.

Thanks!

Posting answers to some of the more serious questions:

Based on what? I didn't say it was just an idea alone. I'm bringing in some proprietary code, management, intellectual property, and other assets. Some of the other % would go to helping recruit executive members of the team and forming future partnerships.

Each deal is unique in my opinion. If I have to raise the ante to get the investment required, I many do that. I don't personally feel it would require giving away 80%+ of the company with a crowd fund type of fund raise. Look at all of the other successful recent crowd funded projects that have given away FAR less. Also, doing monthly distributions is a major perk for any investor.

Since you asked so many questions, let's try to break each one down:

1) What are your revenue and profit projections? - I will use USD equivalents to keep math simple: 5 million in the first year, 40% of that profit

2) How much money are you putting into venture yourself? - Already 200k USD in

3) How would you mitigate risk if bitcoin price appreciates significantly in value? ie, $2000.00/ BTC in the near future. Surely, this would negatively affect the wagered amount, yes? Absolutely and it's totally built in to the model perfectly so that BTC fluctuation has ZERO negative impact for prices moving up or down. The method here is genius and it will be shared with investors as part of the deck pitch.

4) How would you deal with NYC's proposed regulatory framework? I wouldn't operate in NYC, as NYC regulation only applies to NYC companies, this is a non-issue.

5) Canada's bitcoin law requiring foreign business to register with FINTRAC? Pretty sure that Canada cannot impose laws on US businesses nor would it apply this this one but should it be worthwhile and feasible to comply then we would. There's no firm decision on this one way or another at this point but really does not matter much. Also, these new proposed measures are meant to control bitcoin holding companies / exchanges, not so much games and businesses that just accept Bitcoin for payment.

6) Do you really need to hire so many people? By your list there's about 10 people you're planning to hire. You mentioned "executives" what does it mean? Just-Dice.com was exceedingly successful in it's lifetime and was run by 1 person. How would your game compare against Just-Dice's? Again, you have multiple questions here masquerading as one, let me try to answer them: Just-Dice is not comparable. It was just a copy of another idea "Satoshi's Dice" and there's loads of people that cloned the idea. I don't think it was successful. It had slim profits and the next new clone was the same thing with even more slim profits. The game itself was boring and simple (Yet people played it, so imagine a real fun game) The people on the initial list are just core team members needed to run the company. This is estimated and the ideal for the companies needs based on my past experience. This is not comparable to a 'Just-Dice' game. This has some actual effort put in to building it and it's not an odds calculator that plays on a chance slightly in house favor. I seem to remember a guy putting these little dice games out of business and investor dollars getting taken. That CANNOT happen here. This is a REAL game and has NOTHING to do with house odds. It's player vs player and house takes a rake and some other fee's (no it's not poker or any other card game, casino game or gambling game, the game is a completely NEW game, never done before by anyone. I invented it). Executives mean that later I will be recruiting an all-star team of executives to sit on the board of this company and help me run and propel it forward even further. To get quality executives, you typically need to give up a piece of the company, so I am reserving some of the company equity for that.

7) Last hint is.. unless your site is so groundbreaking that people are gonna want to copy them, ie. Satoshi Dice and Just-Dice, you might as well tell us the plan right now. Ideas are dime a dozen; execution is what matters. Here's YOUR hint - it is ground breaking and people would absolutely copy it. This is why I need to be the first to market with force and dollar backing otherwise I would just do this on my own and keep 100% of the company to myself. My biggest fear is that someone with more dollars than I have comes in and is able to look like the first to market even though it was just a copy of my original game. I want to avoid that and I am willing to give up 40% in order to make that happen.

I'm going to quote what I posted in a different topic since it addresses the same concern:


Being the first to market doesn't always equate to success. It's common in history for the first of something to be eclipsed by the first imitator or improvement of the formula from someone else. How can your game be protected against your competitors if they decide to move in on it?

Another general question that I don't think should involve you needing to provide too much information at this stage: what platform will this game be on? You predict $5 million first year revenue: what will the source of this revenue be? (i.e. game sales, in-game advertisements, micro-payments, etc.)

Lastly, you also mentioned that you've started and managed other businesses in the past. Can you provide more details about these businesses and what became of them?

Like I said to the other guy in the post I quoted here, I don't mean to be critical; these are questions I can see big investors asking before they provide such large amounts of money for your company. Make sure you have all of your bases covered. Good luck!

Again, this is not a simple game, so I would not call it 'easy' to replicate, but anything can be replicated. So it's not like just-dice that some guy can go build in 2 weeks and have a clone. The game is a lot more complicated and it relies heavily on well optimized and complicated code. It's by no means a simple concept like just-dice. At the same time, this is also my own biggest problem, because if I do not have the resources to get my bugs worked out and game stable and optimized once the cat is out of the bag, then I'm not going to seem like the originator of this idea. First to market is a MAJOR advantage in any industry. I want to make sure that is me. I want to have the best and most bug free and well optimized code out as well as a strong marketing push so I can ensure investors are getting a great ROI and my game is making headlines.

The game will be in browser. It's not a game you need to download or buy a copy of. The concept is very easy to understand and there's no real learning curve or tutorial necessary to understand it.

Largest source of the revenue will be from each game, there's a house rake. Without giving away too much: The longer the game goes on, the more players are enticed to participate and the harder it is for the involved players to stop playing. It's rather addictive and this part of that is already proven and easily demonstrated in the investor deck. The longer the game, the larger the house rake. As more players join the site / game, revenue grows exponentiatlly.

Other revenue sources would come from site fee's for certain things as well as referrals to partner sites (for example, we don't take or deal with fiat currency, and if you need crypto, you'd visit a referral site to get fiat changed to crypto).

Regarding my resume, happily talk about that with investors. Call me shy, but I don't like posting that to everyone on the WWW. I don't plan on keeping it a secret from investors but don't feel it's necessary to be that specific on a public forum.

So the OP wants everything paid for, including a salary for himself, but also wants to keep 60% of the company.   ::)

Since you will delete this post, the only way I can warn others is by using the trust feature of the forum.

Wow, are you serious?

I have answered every question and I have not deleted any post that was not just trolling or off topic. I in fact answered your questions and I have scammed no one and you label me as a scammer using the trust system? I have done nothing to you or any one else to deserve such a thing.

I have every right to ask for any amount I want for equity in MY company. If people don't want to pay that, no one is forcing them to do so. The only person that is blatantly wrong and abusive here, is you.

Well, I was going to remove it if you didn't delete my post.

However, I see you have labelled me a scammer for some reason, so I guess we are even.

Your post was the first one I reposted in this new thread. You expect that I'm not going to return negative feedback when you unfairly give it to me?

The fact that you'd do something like that to me without any real reason or cause other than move my topic to self moderated because people were trolling and making useless and off topic comments in the other means that you're clearly someone that people SHOULD NOT rely on for any trustworthy information or assistance. I will make sure to get the word out and use this as an example until your feedback is removed.

I don't give feedback unfairly, unlike you.

You are valuing your idea alone at $300,000.  You can't claim any of that as your time either, since you want to pay yourself a salary on top of it.   ::)

That makes you extremely untrustworthy in my book, so I left the appropriate feedback for those that may not take the time to investigate properly.  Everyone else is free to form their own opinion.

The most funny part about this: No where do I say anything about paying myself some salary. You make assumptions and come to conclusions based in information that does not exist. I clearly explained what my goals are and what my plans are for other equity but you conveniently ignored it and came to conclusions based on non-existent facts of your own.

You go around soliciting feedback from actual trust worthy members of this forum by posing as someone trying to be helpful when in reality you're abusive, uninformed and over zealous.

I've been on this forum for a while, never ripped anyone off and made lots of trades. Never done anything but honest business. If you think my equity price is too high, you can state that or tell people that's how you feel, how ever uninformed and inaccurate your OPINION is. I got no problem with that, everyone's entitled to an opinion. But when you start leaving me red negative trust marks and I've answered all your questions publicly, it shows your true colors. You are nothing more than an abusive person that's probably been bullied around in life and feel like this is your opportunity to return that back on society while you hide behind your computer monitor.

I didn't think you'd have much of a response to that. Cat got your tongue? Where are you getting your facts from because it's clearly not from anything that I've stated.

Freaken Jerk off.

Why bother replying?  You'll just delete my words.   ::)

Wow, are you a liar too? Have I deleted any of this arguement? The only thing I've ever deleted is just trolling stuff from other people that had nothing to do with this. I've answered every question here and I haven't ducked anything.

You sound like some little kid that get's his kicks out of harassing people. Now you've also proven to be a liar saying I deleted your comments.

You need to re-read my words and understand their context.  No where did I say you deleted my words.  I said you will.  No lie at all.  :)   I'm not going to waste time beating your arguments when you can delete all my work with just a click.  Sorry.

Now you can have your temper tantrum and call me every name in the book.  I'm done with you.  

The only truth here is that you're speechless to respond to any of the facts I've pointed out.

I'm removing my negative feedback for you. There's no point in degrading to the same abuse of the feedback system that you have. I did that in retaliatory anger. I've opened a thread on you to discuss with more prominent members of this community. So far everyone agrees that your feedback and wrong, undeserved and abusive. So hopefully you get served up with you've got coming by REAL trusted members of this community and can rate you down to where you need to be.

Don't remove negative feedback from him, he deserves it, You're one of the MANY people he has abused with his positive trust. Help take it down so he can't do it to anyone else!

Let me fix your statement for you:

You're not going to waste your time trying to answer questions back at you which have no good answer, like where I discussed anything about paying myself a salary which was the BASIS for your negative trust rating....

You reading the same thread I am?  I don't see that at all.

Anyway, thank you for showing everyone how you would react should things not go the way you plan in this business.  You are an immature hothead who has probably never run a company in his life.  You can delete these messages now.   ;)

At this point I'm pleading to high ranking members of the community to do something about him. They're the ones that can pretty much make his account worthless, not guys like you and me that have not gone around soliciting feedback from people to use as a vehicle to abuse people with and entertain himself with his smug and arrogant attitude about all of this.

I made a thread on you directly in the general forum, regarding your abuse of the trust system. This is what I'm referring to. Perhaps you should go read it.

I did.  You claim EVERYONE AGREES THAT MY FEEDBACK IS WRONG.  So I'll ask again, are you reading the thread yourself?   ::)

Everyone just afraid that if they get on your bad side you'll give them negative trust. Like you do to most people.

If you want investors, this is not wording you should be using. In fact, if you were actually seeking investors, you wouldn't be using that wording. You either are extremely naive, or a scammer that just wants to take the money and run.

I don't blame him for talking that way. He has a full member account that just got rated negative for no good reason.

Yep, the people that have replied there are saying it's wrong and I was wrong for retaliating and leaving you multiple negatives. So I took their advice, removed them and just left one simple rating that simply says it's being left because you're abusing the Trust system and have left me a negative trust rating inappropriately. That is 100% accurate and true and I don't think I need to remove that as long as you continue to leave me the inappropriate negative. So I'll be seeking the assistance of the community based on that. I'm sure some people will help me once they read through what you've been doing.

Nice guess, but if I rated a single person with negative trust that didn't deserve it, the people who have trusted me would remove it.  The system is self correcting.  I only have the trust I do because I always do the right thing.

Actually, no, I would agree that your actions so far only reflect badly on you. This crowdfund, your "professional language", and retaliatory trust. Instead of removing the improper trust feedback you sent, I would have just not added it in the first place.

You are a full member, I would expect that you know the rules here. Unfortunately, as you've shown, you either don't, or you disregard them.

Buddy, you said it yourself, you only gave me a negative rating because you were afraid you wouldn't get attention or that your posts MAY get deleted (not that any had).

You also based your negative rating on something that I never even stated about paying myself some salary. That conversation doesn't even exist in any thread or comment, deleted or not... Yet you have failed to address it in any way.

I think you use your trust rating as a way to demand attention and you masquerade as some do-gooder that's revealing scams.

I've never scammed anyone in my life and never intend to. If I did, there would be FAR easier ways to do it. If I wanted to take some money and run, I'd probably make this deal far more juicy wouldn't I? Maybe just take like 2% of the equity for myself and only be looking for a 20k investment.... that's more indicative of a scammer, not someone that has obvious pride and confidence in their business and is by no means willing to part with it's equity for peanuts.

You're nothing more than an attention whore Vod.

Isn't your thread title also a bit attention-seeking?

I'm quite certain if someone was on a mission to destroy something you were passionate about, your attitude would be much different. I admit reacting in anger, most would. I admit that I did it and I then corrected that to what I feel is an appropriate response.

I am however curious why you're just picking at me here and not the actual person who started this whole circle. I did nothing but answer his questions previous to this and threat him with respect. He just out of no where came back accusing me of being dishonest for no legit reason and out of no where. So the guy either has some severe mental disabilities or he's drunk. Either way, I'd like to hear your feedback on that side of things, since you've already clearly stated your disappointment with how I reacted to him.

The purpose of my thread was to seek attention of investors. His purpose is to hijack that attention to himself.

Starting to feel like you're just trolling me here with lame comments like this.

If this is looking for investors would this not be a security?

I wouldn't be surprised if the positive trust you gained were from your own alt accounts.

Also, just take a look at your feedback that for some reason doesn't count against you. You have soooooooooooooooooooooooo many people accusing you of abuse of trust system.

That means I'm making a difference here.

It takes 10 seconds to create a throw away account and post negative feedback on me - that is why it is "untrusted" feedback.   People have been creating throw away accounts calling me a paedophile, incestuous, faggot, etc.  Obviously I put a dent in these people's scams.

Sure, that's a canned response from 95-99% of those receiving the negative. I have plenty myself.

You are deluded. Extremely deluded.
There's plenty that say "picking on newbies", "bullying", "offering loans to newbies so he gave me negative trust"

Most of your trust ratings are red. And they're from ALLLLLLLLLL sorts of members, not just "newbie/alt accounts"

Guys,

Go take a look at the negative feedback that rarkenin has been leaving for people (seems to be doing the exact same thing Vod is) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=30747

Then go look at who Vod left them for, see anything funny?

Looks like we're dealing with a guy using multiple accounts. So a guy  trying to be the 'Trust' authority is using deceptive means of influencing people.... I think HE is the only person that NO one should trust here. Please, look for yourself.

I found it odd that the dude was grilling me and not saying anything about Vod, now I know why.

You've reviewed it all, you've come to the conclusion I am untrustworthy and you have left me negative trust.  The system works!   :)

I am 100% sure that not all of the ~300 people Vod has given trust too are people who deserve negative trust.

Like I've mentioned before, either here or somewhere else. I've always felt this way, I was LITERALLY TOO SCARED to say anything and attract attention (negative seems to be the only kind he gives unless it's to one of his alt accounts) from Patrolman-Sam over there.

I left YOU (that account) negative trust because you left me negative trust for no good reason. That's exactly what it says.

Maybe you were referring to your other account rarkenin, I left that one negative trust because you accidentally posted negative on that one in my rep thread when you meant do to it on Vod. Ooups.... Caught red handed?

Anyone else notice too, that all of these users with the huge positive feedback are all connected through their feedback? Having positive trust seems to be more like a club now, rather than people who actually deserve it/ contribute to the community in positive ways/ give out loans and actually do business (not just criticize other's)

100% agree, especially in this  case. Vod does nothing but go around judging people and marking them negative. I'd be willing to bet that he tries to leverage his positives (which seem like they've never been given for anything that actually requires any trust) to get stuff.

So, by your own logic, both of you are probably the same person? It looks like the train has left Realityville.

How do you think that in any way?

I know that not everyone with huge positive trust is the same person. All I'm saying is that it seems to be a club, all of Vods positive trust is from "Being a scambuster" how does have anything to do with trust? Has he handled your money? No. Did you trust him with something valuable? No.


You're all just buddy-buddy with eachother. It's like the popular kids in school, really.

And how do you think the Default Trust came about?  You take a few .0001 loans, repay and you're on that list? I got most of mine from selling.

escrow.ms 66: -0 / +48(48)   2014-06-18   0.00000000      Man, I've seriously never given you trust before o.O.
Trusted Scam buster and an outstanding member of the community
smooth 4: -0 / +5(5)   2014-04-25   0.00000000      Respected member of lending forum and scam buster
John (John K.) 150: -1 / +120(120)   2014-04-18   0.00000000      The neighborhood scam-buster. :)
KWH 1: -0 / +3(3)   2014-02-24   0.00000000      Helps keep the waters clean of potential scammers. Good job!
cooldgamer 7: -0 / +9(9)   2013-11-09   0.00000000      This guy really is karma, always helping to weed out the scammers
Tomatocage 33: -0 / +24(24)   2013-07-07   0.00000000   Reference   Vod has been instrumental in helping to compile a list of tell-tale signs to look for to identify would-be scammers
Damnsammit 3: -0 / +3(3)   2013-08-22   0.00000000      Vod helps keep scammers at bay in the Loans subsection. Very good person for the forum and the community.
Blazr 7: -0 / +5(5)   2013-07-07   0.00000000      Very trustworthy, helps prevent people from being scammed.



NOT ONE POSITIVE TRUST IS FROM REPAYING A LOAN, HANDLING SOMEONE ELSES MONEY, ETC

Not one.

How does that in any way show that he is a trustable person? Trust system way flawed, and older members who are friends with eachother are taking advantage of it.

And how are you supposed to obtain Trust? There isn't a unicorn riding fairy magically handing it out.
Let me give you some free advice: All this petty sniping is doing nothing to help your Trust. In fact, it is doing just the opposite. It seems you feel entitled to more Trust for whatever reason you see fit and that makes you look petty, bitter and jealous. After both of your uncontrollable displays of anger, I would refuse ANY trading with either of you.

I agree that the trust system is incredibly flawed.

When someone that's never done a trade or been trusted with anything can go around ruining the reputation of people that have done actual trades with other people (like my scenario) or never done a trade with me in any way just because he's gotten some BS positives from people in 'the circle', there's some big flaws.

This jerk gave me a negative trust rating that wasn't even based on anything, go look at his reasoning... He claims it's because I 'may' delete some of his comments (which I never did) and that I was paying myself some salary in my proposed investment scenario (which was never stated). He is leaving me a negative trust rating which devastates my bitcointalk account and any chance at getting investor cooperation because the first thing they are going to see is a big red negative from some guy that's unfairly judged me based on 0 factual information.

How could anyone support this guy and his actions...?

You could um... take out/give loans, sell/buy stuff, exchange currencies. All in the forum, and earn your trust like you're supposed to.

I "FEEL ENTITLED?!?!" to trust. Oh my god, unlike Vod I actually earned my trust by showing that I repay loans, don't do chargebacks, etc.
Then he basically makes all that irrelevant with his trust he got from being a "patrol man". Not even doing stuff that would actually earn one trust.

And it's not "petty sniping" it's called being mad about something that you have the right to be mad about.

That what I bolded. That what I bolded! Exactly what I'm saying!

First of all, in my case, the damage is done. That's like saying dont get mad because your car was totaled and some drunk guy crashed in to you. If you wouldn't get mad, your car would magically repair itself. I'm venting my frustration because the damage is done and he's ruined my account for trading here and for no good reason at all.

I'm providing an example of how a single mixed up person can undermine the whole trust system by simply soliciting positive trust from the inner circle.

My only mission now is to try to put a stop to his ability to do this to other people and prevent other honest and legitimate traders here from having to be unfairly judged by him and his jaded logic. I've only had positive actual trades here, been above board with everyone, answered everyone's questions in my thread and even was perfectly willing to have meetings, phone conversations or meet in person with investors to present my deck.