Bitcoin Forum

hey folks,

in the last days i had the feeling that we already passed the tipping point of bitcoin. maybe 2014 is THE breaketrough year for bitcoin in the history books. why? because a lot of things come together in my view that we would never think of in early 2013 (thats just 1,5 years ago!) :

- hunderts of millions of VC Money
- Regulation (most more pro than contra)
- Upcoming ETFs
- Adoption from merchants and consumers (DELL, Wikipedia, Expedia etc)
- first BTC stock is launching maybe in 2014 (mining)
- conferences all over the globe
- mainstream coverage (and alot more pro than in 2013)

when i started with bitcoin in Feb. 2013 none of these things existed.

i thought the chance that bitcoin will fail would be 70-80%. now i think, its 10-20%. even if we have bugs in the code, we will survive. even if companies will fail, we will survive. its the honey badger of money  ;)

and we dont have to push Amazon to adopt BTC anymore. it will happen anyway.


iam more optimistic than ever (but maybe iam wrong  :D ! )



-LiteCoinGuy-

Long time live BTC. And LTC  ;)

When you say 'brakethrough', you mean the year that it has the brakes on through the whole year, right?

Bitcoin is the 3rd revolution I'm living through

1st PC's which are now tablets and smartphones to many
2nd The Net the age of instant free info
3rd Techno currency

I honestly believe most here will be telling our grand kids about a thing we used to have called money that evil governments printed at will to fuel stupid wars

They say gramps how did you become so rich

You say because I SAW THE REVOLUTION COMING and put lots of worthless government notes into tech notes you call BITCOIN

After you've been front lines in a couple of revolutions you start to see them coming

BITCOIN is like the net and the PC the next revolution

Bitcoin had 4 tenfold growth bubbles so far it has 4 more

.05 cents start
.50 cents first tenfold bubble
5.00  next tenfold bubble
50.00 next tenfold bubble
500.00 our current bubble

next bubbles

5k bitcoin
50K bitcoin
500K bitcoin

for 5K to happen you need ONLY.1% acceptance of world pop for btc, we are at .01% now

50K is just 1% of gwp by btc produces 50K bubble

500K btc is just 10% gwp by btc

can btc hit 10% growth of population

credit cards did and they reject 90% of the world

btc rejects no one

so btc will go in trade where visa/mc refuses to go

so way over 10% of gwp can eventually be on btc

10% of gwp is 8.5 trillion

divide 12M coints into 8.5 trillion

500K btc baby

EASY

haha, okay i edited that  :)

haha, good man

We've seen nothing yet, man! People still don't know what I'm talking about when I mention Bitcoin and tell them that I am a BitcoinMillionaire. They think it is some kind of Habbo Dollars or something, haha. But I rather not tell them how much they are really worth, or they'd be just begging for money. I don't want that. People don't need to know, I'm a stinkin richt BitcoinMillionaire! Don't wanna brag about that.

Since the last comment on this just made it worse: It's breakthrough.

Funny on the misspellings.

Yes it does seem like the tipping point is being reached.  More and more businesses are accepting it.  The only I'm worried about is that if it gets bigger and still has these issues like the 51% possibility then someone will come around and spend millions to destroy it.

"for 5K to happen you need ONLY.1% acceptance of world pop for btc, we are at .01% now"
Most of the people still don't accept it. I told my friend about btc. He laughed at btc, saying "BTC is virtual and not reliable. Investing true money but reward with virtual things".Never mind! You believe what you believe.

Trying to destroy Bitcoin by buying bitcoin is like trying to put out a fire by pouring gasoline on it.

haha I didn't actually look at how he corrected it, that's good stuff

Anything could happen...who knows?  I doubt we will ever see it above 10k but again, who knows.  I of course would absolutely love it if it was above 10k:)

I guess there are very good times ahead of us still. If you're just in for the pure price, you have to remember that institutional money will continue to flow. And once the ETF of the Winklevii has started, many traditional investors will have just the right vehicle to invest in Bitcoin.

everyone has their own tipping point.

my tipping point of when i realised bitcoin is going to last a long time and is growing in adoption was in 2012. those people from 2009 probably had their tipping point to realise bitcoin will be huge was probably 2011

and as the OP says his tipping point of revelation was a year after he got into it.

there are more tipping points every day. there is no single tipping point. just an increase of tipping points. and the more we see of these 'revelations' that people have that they finally see that bitcoin is going to grow, the faster it will grow.

Smart move. Stealth wealth is the way to be, especially as people protest about minimum wage workers making minimum wages. If you start bragging about that stuff you'll just make yourself a target.

Congrats on  your success!

I wish I could say the same thing, but I've gotten involved much later than a lot of you (and yet much sooner than many others...)

Yeah, it really seems you gotta be in the game for at least 1 or 2 bubbles and see how the ecosystem changed. Until then you think all growth is over and a bubble just can't ever occur anymore. But when it happens, you see that you've actually seen nothing yet. That's when you learn not to worry and panic during a crash.

In my opinion this VC money isn't going to jack shit for bitcoin.  The ONLY thing that is worth anything is people buying bitcoin.  That's it.  If that doesn't happen, all the great bitcoin infrastructure in the world won't help.

+1

Yes we are definitely past the tipping point  

If billionaires have invested 10's of millions of $'s this year and they use the best available people to evaluate, model and project revenue and profit before they invest  it is most unlikely that bitcoin will fold up in the near future.. bitpay is targeting/ projecting a 33 fold increase in its merchants in 29 months

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=718153.msg8114560#msg8114560

“We have set a goal to enroll 1 million merchants by the end of 2016 […] When we started BitPay in 2011, we saw an opportunity to finally give merchants around the world relief from interchange fees. By offering a basic plan that is free and unlimited, forever, we give merchants yet another reason to be excited about bitcoin.”

http://www.coindesk.com/bitpay-eliminates-fees-basic-merchant-processing/

so  if in May Bitpay average was processing $1million a day from 30,000 merchants  simple maths says that by 2016 if they reach  the target of 1 million merchants or 33 times what they had then volume for bitpay alone should be in the region of $33 million a day or 1 billion + a year (minimum) so an initial $30M investment looks cheap for that volume.

BitPay Offers ‘Free and Unlimited’ Payment Processing for Merchants

Furthermore these guys are big enough to manipulate the price to almost any level they want it.. add a small portion of the trillions of dollars from wall St  that will soon get involved  I can only guess that the bears have not done their homework..in anything there is risk but the risks here are minimal compared to the potential reward...a 10 fold  (not even 33 fold yet) increase in merchants to just bitpay will put upward pressure on price.

Well the "tipping point" is a formal term for when a new technology or idea is adopted by the masses or reaches a level of adoption that the acceptance of that technology or idea cannot be reversed. So, it's not about one person it's about the entire community. When is there enough collective momentum to push the idea forward such that it cannot fade away?

You're right that a lot of positive moments contribute to that momentum and the (singular) tipping point is only one that can be truly known in retrospect, after it's happened, after the history of events can be analyzed.

It's a very exciting time, for sure...no one on this forum will argue that!

Was sure that he meant we are beyond the level where the most significant bitcoin use is way to give and receive tips around the internet, like is with doge today. First time I see this expression("tipping point")

For me the tipping point was bitcoin survives Mt. Gox and all the chinese bans.

Definition of TIPPING POINT
:  the critical point in a situation, process, or system beyond which a significant and often unstoppable effect or change takes place


significant...entry of big players/ big money/multiple start ups/10's of 1000's of merchants accepting/remittance activity increasing exponentially etc.

often unstoppable...these people will support their investments and bitcoin activity so as to make it hard to stop in the medium term ( barring a catastrophic event which none have yet foreseen..and if anyone knows one please share)

Gox fiasco was not predicted by most people, also the chinese bans went unwarned too. This is why I cited them as turning point(or turning proof, if you prefer) for bitcoin, because they proof bitcoin's resistence against unexpected big crysis.

For most of the community, and for 90% of the newcomers, Mt. Gox was reference for price and to buy bitcoins with fiat, their downfall was something bigger than a bitstamp collapse today.

And everyone agreed that the rise in bitcoin price was due to chinese demand, so no one could predict where would we stop if the chinese were unable to get bitcoins - maybe to the $200 level, again.

Now add both happening at same time, and you have your test.

Gox fiasco was "predicted" by some twit in November 2013  ..and that twit says that it is probably not the last ..but bitcoin will survive nonetheless


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=316846.msg3748321#msg3748321

What could send us down to $274 given the current China interest?

Here's a few scenarios.

- Solar flare or cyber attack knocks out internet
- China or USA ban (temporarily)
- Large Chinese dealer or Mt gox/ Bitstamp folds up owing 10's of Millions (most probable scenario in my opinion)
- China and USA start war mongering over the Japanese/ Chinese disputed Islands
- Meltdown of financial markets run to PHYSICAL assets (gold silver)
- Governments start to introduce their own Crypto outlawing completely private Crypto's

There are others but those immediately come to mind.

NOT going to $150 again except for ability to purchase a few coins


and here's another one that's started

- Governments start to introduce their own Crypto outlawing completely private Crypto's

http://www.trendingtidings.com/ecuador-outlaws-bitcoin-create-state-controlled-digital-currency/


 China or USA ban (temporarily).. this one is also often in the news but no total ban

that leaves   solar flare ( coming??)  and meltdown of financial markets ( coming ???? lol ) from the list

No, he meant breakthrough....just misspelled the word...

yeah right. i mean this kind of tipping point. its not about the price or my personal experience with bitcoin.

:)

...

Maybe another way to look at "tipping points" is when we start to see more and more of them happening ever more quickly.  Kind of like now!  

With all the terrible things going on in the world now, it only makes sense for those in dangerous areas want to have a little value tucked away that is not easy for the local .govs to steal.  Something that is easy to take in large value in a small space.  Something that is truly a diversification of assets.

Something like Bitcoin...

***

Re my only experience with spending Bitcoin (buying a small gold coin), that was perhaps my "tipping point" (seeing for myself that it really worked) -- there are now at least FOUR companies who will sell you gold for BTC.

Or perhaps my "tipping point" was buying BTC by credit card (trucoin.com, but they are not selling for the moment until they get their service cranked up).  I am also waiting on another BTC seller (who takes checks!) to come through, I will let bitcointalk.org know upon successful completion of my order.

Or maybe my "tipping point" was finally being able to find more people in my town who will sell me BTC for cash...

The above THREE "tipping points" illustrate my contention at the top of this note.  "Tipping points" are coming along rather quickly.

Trying to stop btc at this point is like you know standing in front of the ocean thinking your urine stream is gonna influence the tide or depth of the ocean

BTC is entrenched as the first legitimate digital currency unit

As mentioned above, just 10% acceptance means 8.5 Trillion of GWP on btc network

That's 500K btc in basic math

We don't need 100% acceptance

Just .1% of gwp the next bubble is 5K btc

1% of gwp is 50K btc

So a btc millionaire is positioned to become a btc billionaire

All the big tech players moving into btc shows it's REAL

The first tipping point was when Satoshi published his white paper.

seems legit  :P

Yep, someone was prescient there. As for the other possibilities:

1. My best understanding is that the risk from solar flares is somewhat exaggerated. And a really bad one would knock out satellites in geostationary orbit, giving us about 30 minutes warning before it struck earth. Assuming they are on the ball, this should give major utilities and internet outfits time to shut things down and greatly limit the resulting scope of damage... assuming they don't stand around aimlessly when the satellite shutdowns start happening. EMP attacks and cyber warfare are realistic possibilities, but almost certainly wouldn't take out the entire internet, so distributed blockchains should be fine.

2. (Most) Governments won't flatly ban crypto, and even if they did they would thrive on the black markets.

3. Warmongering creates fear, motivating people to safeguard their assets. This would drive people away from at-risk investments (such as in companies that would be in trouble if international trade shut down in the example given above), towards safe havens like gold and bitcoin.

4. A financial market meltdown will cause people to flee AWAY from fiat currency, not TO precious metals in particular. If your fiat becomes worthless, you still need a way to buy and sell things. Which would you rather have at that point, a lump of gold in your pocket or a couple bitcoins in your online wallet? With each passing day the usability of BTC in everyday transactions grows. Gold? Try cashing that at Walmart or spending it online.

5. Government-backed crypto. Ecuador will be showing us what a stupid idea this is. Does anyone really think this stands any chance of acceptance? Really? It combines the disadvantages (such as they are) of crypto with the disadvantages of fiat. Lose-lose.

i wonder how many years it would take for people not to think that bitcoin is just another "ponzi scheme." i guess big companies accepting it are helping the narrative some.

I honestly doubt that the thought of bitcoin being a "ponzi scheme" is the main reason adoption is so slow.

The biggest reason is that the common joe doesn't feel the need to use anything other than fiat. :)

I personally find Bitcoin adoption to be extremely fast. I became a "Bitcoiner" in 2011 and since then things happened with astronomical speed. What Bitcoin has achieved in just few short years is breathtaking to me.

lucky guy  :D

first time i heard of it was in 2012 when it went from 30 USD to 2 or something like that but i didnt care back then.

lol, all this from litecoin guy

thats what i meant. everyone has their own tipping points where they wont go back. but not one person can say . this is it here and now. this is the single tipping point.

because with bitcoin and many other things. it is more like a curve not a singular event, and we have not yet seen the 'point' where the curve moves by any sharp degree

but as you say looking back in retrospect you can easily analyze the data and see where most people all had their moment of realization and the consensus of the masses all caused what appears to be a singular event or atleast a more angular curve upwards.

but in my mind we are not there yet, but it is getting closer

That would be more like the starting point rather than the tipping point.   I would think that the first tipping point was when BTC started moving up in monetary value due to exchanges opening...

Yes.  Dont forget the "hunderts of millions of VC Money" as well.

Apologies to everyone.  American Schools.  You know how it goes.

-B-

How many of you guys actually spend bitcoins for transactions?   Sounds like all you guys care about is the price

my 'tipping point' is innovation based.

the biggest tipping point for me was the protocol itself and then the big companies joining, the pricepoint is im-material to me. im in it for the long haul so this years price and next years price mean nothing.

but i dont think the community's 'tipping point' is there yet. we are not yet at the general pubic readiness stage yet. although bitcoin has the infrustructure to win me over, its still not there for 'granny' or 'little billy' to use.

and it wont be an overnight big swing which some are calling a 'tipping point' the general community change would be a curve

Won't the tipping point be when we quit caring so much about the price. How many average US citizens are constantly checking to see how valuable the dollar is compared to other currencies? That's basically where bitcoin is right now. Getting past that will be the tipping point. We will think of value in terms of BTC instead of dollars. A pack of gum costs so much btc while gas is at a different level. That's the ultimate goal.

Until we move to a point where BTC is commonly accepted by everyone the value doesn't matter as much. Right now the value counts on two levels, for those who are trying to make money off buying BTC and hoping the value skyrockets (basically everyone), and the other level, it's a good indication of how well BTC is catching on. The rise in price seems strongly correlated with the amount of people learning about BTC. In other words, the price is the level of how quickly people are catching on.

I think a better word for these "tipping points" are milestones. They're big achievements but it's certainly not all downhill and easy from here like if they were a tipping point.

there will never be a point where no one cares about the price. people care about their own wealth more than bitcon's adoption rate.. that's just the way shit works. i'm not saying it's wrong either.

What is "GWP"?

And to another poster, are there really 1000's of retailers doing business in BTC? If so, the next step is for those retailers to advertise their acceptance of BTC better...I'm aware of much less than a hundred retailers accepting BTC for payment.

The biggest problem/hurdle for mass adoption of BTC is new user's having to exchange fiat for it. That transaction anchors them in an exchange rate cost and if the value of BTC (to USD for example) goes down they may feel they've lost money and sell the BTC they purchased.

I'm more realistic. I think 2013 was the peak in price and we've finally reached bit coins true stable value. Not much venture capitalists can of with adoption and price now.

I use Bitcoin on daily basis for all sorts of things and whenever i can. And i igree with you that there is too much focus on price. Also, whenever i introduce people to Bitcoin, first thing they care about or ask about (most of them) is possibility for further appreciation and what is the risk for Bitcoin to go down... it's quite annoying to be honest...

I think we have not even seen a glimpse on what BTC will one day be! It will go very far and I cannot wait to see it in a year or 2 time I expect the value to be at least double maybe even triple of what it is now

Agreed .....that ease of exchange to/from fiat and a stabilized rate is needed for mass adoption.

Many...very many... are working on this now like

atm's..prepaid bitcoin cards,  stabilization funds ,etf's etc and I am 100% sure this will all be achieved in time. We are still in the early stages.

The price at which bitcoin will be stabilized however is likely to be very different from what it is today and therefore we will just need to go through the process including the ups and downs that come with that.

RE wanting to sell if the price goes down..some (few)  may do if it is prolonged.....many however will hold in the hope of appreciation to the level or higher than they bought in at so I suggest that is less of a factor.

Mass adoption may be a lot closer than many think..now the big players like bitpay have entered with a target of a 33 fold increase in merchants in 29 months to 1 million..should they get close to that or even surpass it that goes a substantial way to mass adoption

Personally I believe that the ease (and cost) of buying bitcoin for the masses in order to buy from these and other merchants is the hurdle that requires the most attention.

currently if you have currency other than the majors ( $ EUR CNY JPY) the conversion cost is running about 3%  that's too high. Worse if you then need to reconvert to another fiat in order to spend. A card which can easily be loaded and reloaded with bitcoin using almost any currency at 1% or below AND is easily available to the consumer and easily useable almost anywhere will probably be the route to mass adoption and someone will soon provide that.

in fact its already here  

http://www.coindesk.com/exchange-anx-launch-reloadable-bitcoin-debit-cards/

but they charge 2.5% and there is a currency conversion charge and balance is in $'s so its not quite a true bitcoin card YET

and the prepaid card

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=699415.msg8095199#msg8095199

which i do not think is rel-oadable YET  has a 10% cost ( but they have been asked to reconsider the pricing). This is just a few days old so we WILL get to a reloadable 1% cost sooner than later.  At current speed it may even be available within weeks or days :)


and of course Xapo

http://www.coindesk.com/xapo-bitcoin-debit-card-launch-month/


EDIT..I have rechecked current rates for exchange in Philippines..they are already down to 1% as of July 9th  This will eventually be the norm ( or lower) for everywhere. 

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2a7ze3/we_at_rebitph_have_decided_to_cut_down_our/

Having more than 2,000 BTC is currently going to make a person a bitcoin millionaire and that person is going to be in a pretty good position after the next bubble, I suppose. 

Maybe also having more than 200 BTC will also be pretty good? 

Having more than 20BTC seems to be the minimum level of prudence that investors should strive to achieve before the next bubble, it seems?

Having more than 2BTC is going to take a few pretty good sized bubbles in order to bring a meaningful quantity.

hope bitcoin will last longer and will enliven the real market: D

and with bitcoin we can easily buy anything: D

and it's my hope, eternal hope and hopefully haha: D

Seems to be a Catch22 b/c we/they are only going to continue to buy BTC if we/they see that an infrastructure is being built around BTC.

The OP is right we have seen a lot of great things happen with bitcoin in the las 18 months but i dont think we've quite reached the tipping point. Lots of VC's have come on board and are staring to throw some good money around but i belive the real money will come when the Winklevoss EFT launches and the big well know traditional investors are putting putting there cash in, then it will expload.  ;)

Whenever I mention Bitcoin to friends or strangers in real life they have absolutely no fucking idea of what im talking about. Tipping point = seeing a change on this. I think ebay is key.

I totally agree on this, bitcoin does hold a lot of enterprises in the future. I know a few who are a bit skeptical still to this day, and possibly bitcoin will never be universally accepted. Despite that, I do believe that gives us an edge in the free market.
As far I’m concerned, the majority who find bitcoin defective are those who believe an apocalyptic event will happen, and shut down the internet. What are the odds of that happening anyway? Probably not as good as the odds of bitcoin being adopted by the massses IMO.
Its pretty much like paypal before, a lot where skeptical to try it then. But hey, look at where it is now.
Anyway I look at it. I'm in it to win it! so I have no plans on bailing no matter what happens.

The future is bullish!

Listen, the bottom line is no one knows what is going to happen in the future...

My advice is not to put all your eggs in one basket.  It is extremely unstable and who knows what will happen in the future.  I hope for the best for Bitcoin but the fact is, anything random could happen and Bitcoins value could go down to 1 dollar....or it could sky rocket up to 5k/bitcoin!

It does NOT seem that advice is being sought in this thread, and it seems as if you did NOT even come close to answering the question about whether BTC is at a tipping point or NOT.....


On the other hand, if you did answer the question by stating that anything can happen at any time, then that kind of an answer would imply that BTC is NOT at a tipping point b/c anything can happen.   :-\

So I will take it that your answer is NO.... BTC is NOT at a tipping point.   ???

I totally agree with this. Partially because more and more people are educating newcomers about Bitcoin, myself included.
There's plenty of ways to increase the population that uses bitcoin and I see them slowly but surely unfolding. I've currently got a fundraiser going to bring bitcoin into the highschool I'm a senior at via the economics classes. That's just one example.

There's so much potential still undiscovered. I'm really looking forward to see what future surprises Bitcoin still holds for us. Just remind yourself of all the possibilities that await you when you're getting scared and think about selling!

Ethereum and Steller are making a lot of noise lately.

And some long term holders are spending a lot of their coins on Ethereum. That should worry someone who still put all eggs in one basket.

holy cow i wish i had 200 BTC right now.

Correct, no one knows if it is at its tipping point or not...

If we could all predict the market so well, I don't know about you but I would have but 500 dollars in bit coins when you could buy 1,000 bitcoins at 1 dollar....

So like I said, no one actually knows what will happen, just sit back and enjoy the ride!

Ethereum and Steller and Nxt and Counterparty and... - where should i invest know  :P ?

I really like this. The future will be bright for those who hold on to their precious coins. :)

Hehehehehe... In my post, I was trying to indirectly coerce bitcoin millionaire into revealing his quantity of coins - but he did NOT take the bait....

Surely out of the numbers that I listed - increments of 10, 200 BTC does seem plausible to become a bitcoin millionaire in the near future... but we need to get to $5k per coin to achieve such - that $5K per coin does seem fasible and within the realm of soon possibilities - however, how long will it take?  anywhere between 6 months and 5 years, depending on luck and good fortune? 

You may be correct in some degree; however, I would NOT be so fatalistic about these kinds of matters and in that regard you seem to be throwing up your hands while at the same time suggesting that we are all equal in our levels of BTC predictive knowledge, which I doubt to be the case. 

Even though some people make predictions, when push comes to shove, NO one is really claiming that they know, but instead, they are betting on probabilities (to the extent that they have thought through the situation and made some attempts at BTC price predictions).

If you have NOT figured it out by now, there is going to be quite a bit of variance in knowledge levels of people and their experiences, and their level of exposure or even access to BTC and risk tolerances.  Frequently, these different skills and knowledge levels affects perspectives and calculations that these people will do.

Take your example of one thousand bitcoins for a dollar, few people would have stocked up to $500 worth of bitcoin at that time, yet a lot has developed in the bitcoin space since then to inform people about bitcoin and about its various implementations and adoption. 

Also, if you had NOT noticed, there are some people in positions to manipulate btc prices and there are also insider traders who are participating in the BTC space and have been able to act before some major BTC announcement.  Even though these manipulators may NOT be able to substantially alter the long-term direction of BTC, they could affect the short and/or medium terms of BTC.  In this regard, there are entities and people that do have powers to affect the direction of BTC (or at least some aspects of the BTC space).

Three weeks would be nice, but I have my doubts... call me a naysayer.   :'(

BTC is the new currency in my eyes as its possible gunna bring down the centralized currency that runs this bulllshit world ! thank god

Soon enough, we will all be bitcoin millionaires.

10-20 BTC is all you need to have at least a million $ worth.

But at that point, it would be stupid to cash out. Just spend the BTC itself, and invest it to keep yourself perpetually wealthy.

I always wonder what would happen if BTC goes to 1000 then 5000 then 10000 ect until 500000. Most people now say they would hold BTC forever, but I think everyone has a point, where he would cashout a biiiig chunk of his holdings.

Like your 10-20 BTC amount. Do you really think people could withstand the temptation of selling at 10000 USD?

Yes, if they bought at 7000 or 8000.

Well, to be millionaires with only 10-20BTC assumes BTC is going to rise to $50k or $100k "soon."

I hope that prediction is true and "soon" is within the next few years, yet I have my doubts that BTC will reach those kinds of prices within the next 5 years (but NEVER say never).

Regarding the cashing out statement:  Surely, we should already plan that at certain profit levels we are going to cash out and/or diversify parts of our BTC holdings (and that would depend upon our investment in and maybe if our investment is double or 5x or 10x) - which may cause us to profit less or  it may be prudent b/c we can buy in again on dips or just be in a more secure financial position to have diversified assets.

This happened a few times already. It's not the price levels but % gains which matter and I agree, not many people can withstand cashing out/spending on rallies, but it's part of the progress and it's not negative.

In my opinion, If 1 bitcoin would worth $10000 (current $ value) it would mean that people are getting paid in btc, it's accepted in the majority of places (on the internet, and in bigger cities) and that there are a lot of valuable bitcoin businesses around.

To reach stability, better coin distribution have to be achieved, which means bigger holders ("early adopters") spending, dumping or investing part of their holdings.

When I got my first bitcoins there weren't many options to spend them expect exchanging it on mtgox or buying alpaca socks. Considering the progress so far I really hope that in the future I won't have to use fiat.

We talk all big like bitcoin is going to raise or be the next currency. But I just thought, what about when the people currently using bitcoin die out? And take so many bitcoins that might not be returned to the blockchain if their family or friends either don't know said person had them, or don't know what they are.

As with any other assets which can be hidden (like gold/silver/cash stash) it's the owners responsibility to include their holdings in their will.

Well this doesnt look very good:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnm4xFC2xNo

This is definitely a problem b/c people may NOT safeguard their private keys adequately in order for the transfer of assets to their intended heirs.  If these BTC become lost, then the whole BTC community become the heirs b/c the value of the remaining BTC goes up.

Ha yeah, who knows? :D Some people are diversifying as much as they can. Always afraid they could miss 'the next big thing'. The next 30x Litecoin bubble or something alike. I sometimes wonder whether it is all those altcoins that actually drain BTC's power nowadays!

I honestly believe that once we break the 10k Barrier, the price will increase exponentially afterwards...20k and 30k will be quick to fall.

This is probably true, because if people don't see the worth in them until then, they will certainly understand the worth when you have five digits on the line.

I really really hope you are correct....But I think the price will stay around $100-1200 for eternity...Or until inflation catches it(If it survives that long) and then the price might go up a bit.


I really really hope I am wrong though.

correct. thats a valid point. 90% would sell when btc hits 2000, 3000 USD or even 10k - hell, most people wine when btc price goes down 5-10%! do you think people wont sell at 2000 USD then ::) ? of course most people will.

you have to think stragetic and need balls of steel when you resist here.

I think people diversify when bitcoin is up, right now it's still flight to safety.

Altcoin market cap (all altcoins compared with bitcoin) is constant or still shrinking, at about 5%.
This was >10% at the end of 2013, and like 1% in the old times when bitcoin was at 10$.

Could be a good sentiment indicator...

That is one reason I am currently trying to "time-lock" my BTC. To overcome to strong urge to sell everything and be set for live at xxxx$ price. But it doesn't seem to be very easy to do...

First things first, You have anything to hold when the average joe realizes there's a lot of money to make and the speculative bubble explodes. That's the problem when a lot of people want to make a lot of money.

Second, the next PC revolution will virtually destroy BTC, and every other crypto-currencies in the process. It will bring power to everyone, call me an optimist. The next two revolutions I'm talking about, we may be not be living to witness them, but we will be seen as the pioneers who made made them happen. Our grand children will thank us for that, not necessarily for the meaningless BTC.

BTC is nothing more than a desperate attempt for Americans to invest their savings when the petro-dollar no longer exists; fucking my word, it's all over the news.

Wow, so if 1/100 people in the world use bitcoin, it'll be $50 000 a pop! That would be a dream come true.

This kind of prove a point Fiat currency still have value. Investors are keeping BTC in hope that it will go up in price so they can cash out for "FIAT".

USD is inflationary. Throwing all these dreamy BTC/USD rates around doesn't help if/when USD itself is crashing. Maybe we'll live to see the $10000 pizza, but hopefully by that time we'll be all using better currencies (not necessarily BTC).

 :o :o   You are off to a great start with your first post, here.   ::) ::)


NOT    :D :D :D   :P :P

This is really not a good idea. If for some reason you need the money/BTC for an emergency then you would not have access to it. If you really want to have your BTC safe from those kind of urges then you should develop a written plan to spell out under what exact circumstances that you will sell your bitcoin. They should include situations when you need money regardless of what bitcoin is trading at the time.

Wishful thinking, first post or not, great start or not, if you don't like my posts, don't respond to them. I say I said BTC is doomed, a piece of fucking shit. What you dreamed you taught me a lesson, LOL

Third post: I'm all for the discussion, everyone else can else can go kick rocks.

I'm of the same opinion as the OP.  It's like bitcoin is approaching a new level of growth that has yet to be comprehended IMO.  I think people need to be extra careful with their coins because the scammers are on full alert I have no doubt.

Scammers are on full alert b/c they're fully aware that BTC is stealable. Now, hackers can easily break into your pen drive,  security protections for Pc users, firewalls and anti virus protections are useless against such hackers exploits.

I did not say that I did NOT like your first post, and even if I did NOT like your first post, I can still respond to it.

So, WTVER.

YOU can come and troll if you like and NOT add value if you like and people may or may NOT respond to your posts; however, those present and/or future posts turn out to be.

So far, out of the two posts of yours that I have read, they do NOT seem to add much value to our discussion; however, maybe other people or trolls, may appreciate your apparently NONSUBSTANTIVE and emotionally laden input???

yeah... agreed... as BTC increases in value.. which is likely to continue... there will be more and more methods and means to separate peeps from their coins.

Probably the only thing that will keep bitcoin alive is the illegal side of things ::)

That "illegal side" is kind of what got BTC going, but that"illegal side" does NOT seem to be what is currently sustaining BTC prices in the upper $500s.  Do you have statistics to show us?  or a link(s)?

Its just my opinion based on my observations in general, not something I can reference with statistics or a link. :)

Well, your current opinion seems to be based on last year's news... and you need to get updated in the information that apparently is causing you to come to those seemingly negative propagandistic conclusions.

There..... Above, I fixed your response to me b/c it looked like you were citing me, so your response had gotten lost in my text...


Let me add that:  I agree with you in part that our experiences are a combination of emotions and thinking; however, part of my point in my earlier posts was that your posts had seemed to be fairly heavy and laden on the emotions and fairly light and nearly completely lacking in the thought department.  

HOPEFULLY, you will be able work on making improvements in your attempts to balance emotions and thoughts; however, for some reason I am inclined to conclude that you are disinclined towards making improvements in how you come across... maybe even bordering upon intentionally setting forth attempts at the distributions of shock-provoking contents.   Too bad about that.   :(

You seem to be a reasonable man. Let's keep with the topic at hand and ask yourself the good questions. Why is it that BTC growth rate increased by 8000%. According to the predictions, when there will be no more BTC available in 2124, what will happen to the growth rate?

Again, even before those 12 million BTC left will be exhausted, guess what happens when quantum computing makes its debut? (not to mention the security issue, and the fact that is highly likely that it will be replaced by an altcoin that will have something more to offer, such as anonymat).

And you are supposed to be a lite coin guy  :P

What illegal side are you implying? Thought silk road is long gone.

Yes... much better in my thinking for us to delve into substantive issues, yet surely I am NO expert at all issues (especially complicated ones), even though I do have my opinions (views) regarding your various questions regarding the future of bitcoin.





From these two questions, I gather you are talking about two related issues... one issue is the appreciation in BTC prices and then the other issue is the decrease in the supply of BTC - over time and in the longer time future.  I find it a little more easy to respond to them in the reverse order.... or in combination...

As you suggested, the growth of BTC supply is fairly extensive in the beginning - with the allowance of 50BTC blocks every 10 minutes for the first 4 years (2009 to 2012), and then 25 BTC blocks every 10 minutes the second 4 years (2013-2016) , and then halfing every 4 years thereafter, which will cause a large majority of the coins to be mined fairly quickly and early on (which I read as half of the coins are mined in the first 4 years.. then 25% in the next 4 years... etc etc)... So by the year about 2140 all of the blocks of coins will be mined.. but many more blocks are mined in the very beginning (front loaded). 

There are a lot of complicated factors in describing how BTC prices have grown in the past 5 years, including increased adoption and speculation and investments... so as adoption of BTC grows and its network and its applications and its liquidity, the price will continue to grow at a fairly high rate (some call this anticipated exponential growth).  Some have estimated (including forum members Slippery Slope and Peter R and maybe some others) that there will be something like 10x growth per year during the first half of the adoption phase of BTC...  (surely this is bullish to the extreme) and depending on how wide-spread BTC becomes adopted, 1/2 of BTC's adoption phase could last for several years into the future...   Currently probably less than 5% of the world's population have heard about BTC and less than 1% have considered investing in BTC and less than .01% have actually established some kind of holdings in BTC above .001BTC.......   So there appears to be quite a lot of room for growth and adoption of BTC... in order to take us through the first half of its adoption phase.

Thereafter, the adoption phase would taper off and the price growth rate of BTC would also taper off.  Maybe we do NOT believe in the exponential growth rate of 10X per year and instead we believe 5x or 2x or .5x or .1x or some other variation?  Nonetheless, it is very likely that any particular growth rate will NOT be easy to predict or even that the growth rate may NOT even comply with any previous models regarding how a similar asset should grow.  NO matter what the growth rate, the growth rate will affect price, both up and down... and there are so many people who are bullish about the growth of BTC based on these theories of growth... and some bears follow these theories and agree with them and some bears think the various exponential growth theories are rubbish.

In the end, there remains enough subunits of BTC (since BTC is divisible into 100 million sub-units (satoshis) per BTC) to supply the whole economic system with a small supply of BTC, and additionally, there could be a fork in the BTC blockchain that would allow for BTC to be divided into even smaller units.. if needed to supply the needed currency or storage of value or transmission of value or public ledger or other features....  BTC has several ways to flex to accommodate growth..

Your presentation of growth of BTC as a "problem" is very speculative into the way distance future or over problems that are NOT as wide-spread as you are making them out to be. Of course, these kinds of potential "problem" matters should be accounted for, but we really do NOT need to know the answers to all of these kinds of potential "problem" questions in order to know that BTC is a good value and a good investment today.. a good investment that may have some problems in the present that are being worked on and potential and anticipated problems in the future... but these various problems are NOT insurmountable (at least NOT insurmountable at the moment).  Surely, there could be some unanticipated problems too... or some of the problems could become insurmountable... but to-date, the various listed and known problems are NOT insurmountable. 

Regarding value:  Any new and/or innovative system such as the internet, or the telephone network or certain companies such as microsoft and facebook, have experienced variations of exponential growth in their use and in their value and the transfer of wealth from one group of people to other people who had invested into the new businesses and/or the new paradigms.. same is true for BTC...   BTC could be a winner or a loser, and in my humble bumble opinion, it is up to people to decide whether and how much to invest... and it seems better for those peeps who hear and learn about BTC earlier rather than later.

You can assume the doom and gloom of BTC all you want, and that is fine for you b/c you are correct that there are potential obstacles that need to be overcome (and some are mere speculations into a very distant future), yet a large number of the people participating in this forum, are invested, interested and informed about various crypto currencies.. including BTC.. but NOT necessarily locked into their various investments. 

If a person believes that his/her investment into BTC is NOT paying off or is NOT panning-out as expected, then s/he can transfer his/her proceeds of his/her investment to some other asset class.... or even back into fiat, if s/he thinks that tranfering back to fiat or even into some other investment is the more prudent, safer or better course of action.






I think I have already addressed these kinds of issues with my above response, yet regarding quantum computing, we will need to see whether those kinds of technologies would necessarily undermine BTC's network of computer systems, its mining or its security.. all of which are continuing to be developed and built upon.   

And, in the event that a superior alt coin comes along, then we can cross that bridge when we get there.  At the moment, BTC has more than 95% of all of the crypto-currency market share, and BTC is the big gorilla and best game in town... If a competitor or two to BTC comes to be a challenge to BTC in which BTC is unable to absorb some of the features of the competitor alt(s), then investors can switch over to those kinds of coins.. b/c NO alt is going to take over all of BTC's market share in one swell swoop... absent some major technical glitch.. so, if a serious competitor comes along, then I would expect some NOTICE and signs..   

In my opinion, BTC remains the best in the crypto currency world and likely among the better investments as a whole... of course with any investment, people need to consider their total investment portfolio and consider the extent to which they are adequately diversified.  Personally, I have been putting a very large percentage of my new investment money into BTC - yet BTC occupies less than 10% of my total investment portfolio... even though it is a very large percentage of new investments that I make... b/c I consider BTC to be a GREAT current value (a great risk to value ratio).

Hopefully, this helps, even though a bit of a long answer.

BTC is the next big thing waiting to happen!

I think BTCevo already responded that s/he "heard" these things... Sounds like s/he is just attempting to spread FUD..

Your statement doesn't seem to mean too much... waiting to happen?    It is already happening, no?  Maybe you are suggesting that it (BTC) is going to get bigger?

You've raised some good points here: supply/demand side; the rise of BitCoin’s popularity; and other important determinants of BTC price such as investors speculation or exchange rates. Your answer is provided with an interesting point as to how they interact between them, so that you could well afford to make it a bit long.

BitCoin is a fiat currency without an intrinsic value, highly volatile and detached from the real economy. That's what makes it a very very risky investment IMHO.

I'd like to stress another way to appoach those recent developments though. This approach consists in stressing the role of global financial development. Regarding the 8000% growth rate, there's a factor you forgot to mention, China, for obvious reasons I don't feel inclined to explain here. But more importantly, the USA. I'll explain myself: I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, that the current economic situation in the USA has reached the point of no return where the interest rate on the national debt paid by screwed up American taxpayer is not enough to bailed her economy out. So, the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System addresses this unprecedented financial crisis by issuing more dollars bank notes, with the result that the inflation rate becomes exponential.

"but to-date, the various listed and known problems are NOT insurmountable".
"and some are mere speculations into a very distant future".

Agreed, to the extent that atm, printing money is the only way the USA has found to get out of this vicious circle, but to no avail. Keep in mind that the US government don't want the American people to know. See where this leads us to?

"we will need to see whether those kinds of technologies would necessarily undermine BTC's network of computer systems"

Computer processing power will increase 1000+ fold during the next decade, one million fold over the next two decades, and a billion fold in three decades.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predictions_made_by_Raymond_Kurzweil : "This exponential growth in the form of 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048, 4096, 8192, 16384, 32768, 65536, 131072, 262144, 524288, 1048576,". It doesn't take a genius to understand why it would destroy sha 256 hash BitCoin Protocol specification, and every other crypto-currencies in the process.

"we really do NOT need to know the answers to all of these kinds of potential problem questions in order to know that BTC is a good value and a good investment today".

Don't you think that's why people desperately want to save money, and the government desperately wants to keep it a secret? Here's the main reason behind this 8000% growth rate. And there are many many examples which confirm the present trend, there are signs you can't miss, just have a look at the gold charts since the last twenty years. Rising prices in commodities etc etc...

"BitCoin is a fiat currency without an intrinsic value, highly volatile and detached from the real economy. That's what makes it a very very risky investment IMHO."


total bullshit. its a payment network that has never existed before and its not a fiat currency that is based on nothing.

BTC is global. fee free. instant. independent. whats the worth of such a unique, worldwide network? Alot.


but yes, its a risky investment  ;)

No one knows anything as much as the next guy.  We can all hope and "speculate" all we want but when it comes down to it we are simply guessing.  How many people knew that bitcoin would even get this big?  I don't think a lot of people ever thought it would become this.

Please, spare us the BS. "A child's toy in the future will put to shame the combined might of all the computers on earth right now." He's the next guy you're talking about. That's all we have to know.

Yes, bitcoin is at least moving forward for sure, the price got much much more stable, dell started accepting BTC not long ago and there are much more sites that accepts BTC. I hope bitcoin will reach Its destination.

I think you are missing the point....

I am not talking about what unknown coin is out there or anything that will be the next big thing.

I am simply talking about No one knows what Bitcoin will be, so its silly to assume that we have passed the tipping point, or hasn't even reached close to its potential.  Like I said, we are all guessing and hoping.

Don't think too much....

Where the hell did I say anything about an unknown coin in my reply to you? Do I have to teach you how to read? The whole point is that BTC is doomed, tipping point or not. Re-read my post.

YES!!!!   I think that was the point of the thread to get us to speculate about whether BTC is at a tipping point or NOT.   

You, Leex1528, are seem to be suggesting that we should discredit all of the speculation b/c NOBODY knows the direction of BTC...  There  is some truth to that statement, but it seems to be overstated.

Personally, I question your viewpoint b/c even though NOBODY knows for sure about the direction of BTC, people who analyze and who become informed about the technologies surrounding BTC and the marketing and the adoption and the liquidation opportunities and the investments can place various probabilities on various outcomes and predict various probabilities regarding the direction of BTC...

I think that there are a full range of possibilities in the direction of BTC that have NOT completely worked themselves out yet, including potentials for the development of near complete hostility towards BTC, yet there are various aspects of BTC (cat's out of the bag), that cannot be undone... and we cannot go back to uninvent some of the innovative aspects of BTC that may continue to be carried out by BTC and as we have seen have been adopted by other innovations, including competing crypto-currencies.

Your scenario about a BTC doom computer in the future is just that - in the future, which does NOT mean that BTC is NOT adding value today and that BTC and/or its technologies are NOT going to continue adding value for quite some time into the future... If and/or when such a BTC doom computer comes about in the future, then we can cross that bridge at that time, and surely there are various engineering and programming maneuvers that can be used to safeguard, modify or prevent some of this doom and/or gloom that you are projecting in the distant and uncertain BTC future.

Not even close to the tipping point.  All of your points can be said for 1994 before the Internet hit mainstream.

That doom, as you would put it, is a necessary evil compared to the benefits on every aspect of human life such a revolution will bring about.

Science ultimately aims at every aspect of human life, btc is not the be-all and end-all to life. The "future is just that?", use your senses and your imagination, just like the inventor of btc did when he envisionned a brighter and better world for the people.

I have NOT heard anyone say or suggest that BTC is the "be-all" and "end-all to life" (or even words substantively resembling those), and actually, I will concede that even though BTC can have a useful purpose, it is similar to any other currency or storage of value when a person is stranded on a desert Island....   But currently, we are NOT stranded on a desert island, the last time I looked.  

"I will concede that even though BTC can have a useful purpose, it is similar to any other currency or storage of value when a person is stranded on a desert Island...." Since BTC is a medium of exchange, I don't see what you're talking about right now. Arguing for the sake of arguing is pointless and will lead us nowhere. What do you think you're even doing?

I thought that we were having a back and forth communications of ideas related to bitcoin, and in several respects you were suggesting the doom and gloom for bitcoin. I made several suggestions that it was NOT doom and gloom for bitcoin, and I made various responses to your doom and gloom arguments.  So, NOW, it seems that you don't want to talk about it anymore, so you appear to have changed the subject.   :D

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the discussion, but you evaded my question about the global economic situation in the usa. Bis repetitas: do you think that the usa economy is picking up atm?

 
Sigh, I see we can't have a reasonable conversation without insulting each other on the internet. 


I was simply stating that in your post that I replied to, you mentioned that " A child's toy in the future will put to shame the combined might of all the computers on earth right now."  He's the next guy you're talking about. That's all we have to know.

As to that statement I can take it two ways, you are stating that is BS, or you are stating that spare us the BS, and your next 2 sentences are then providing the alternate view point.  I assumed you meant what I said was BS, and that your view point was the clear logical choice. 

As to that, a child's toy in the future I took to meant as something unknown will be great in the future, since bitcoin is a coin, I spoke of another alternate coin as in an unknown future item, or something else in the future. 

Anyway I am glad you took the time out of your day to insult me!

Maybe I evaded your question b/c your question NOT contribute directly to the relevance of the discussion regaring BTC's tipping point? 

I am NO fricking USA economy expert, and how is what I think about the USA economy relevant to any determination about whether bitcoin is doom and gloom as you had been framing it or on the up and up as I had been framing it? 

In my various posts in other threads, I mentioned that part of the reason that I got into investing into BTC was b/c I considered BTC to be a decent hedge against the dollar.. in other words, before I got into BTC, it seemed to me that way too much of my total investment portfolio was connected with the success or failure of the dollar.  So if the dollar is doing o.k., then I am doing o.k.  I still believe that BTC is somewhat of a hedge against the dollar, yet i am beginning to think that it may NOT be a sufficiently comprehensive hedge - especially b/c of the way that wallstreet and big money seem to have been getting into this BTC space, and potentially involved in some of the attempts at manipulating the BTC space.

So, whether I perceive the USA economy to be doing well or NOT?  I think that the USA economy is going to be able to keep up some smoke and mirrors semblance of staying on top of things for at least another 10 years.... lots of world economies are in shambles, so I am NOT clear about who or what would replace the USA, if it were to fail in a large way.  So possibly, the smoke and mirrors can be kept going for longer than 10 years... and do I need to predict beyond that? 

In more minor ways, the USA economy may crash at any moment or it may keep plugging along.. stocks have been doing fairly well lately, but regular people have been getting screwed over in the USA... Will it implode in a large way?   I doubt it.  NOT any time soon.  NOT before the next presidential election... hehehehe   :D    Will there be other adjustments?  probably there are going to be minor sector failures and scandals on an ongoing basis.  How does this affect bitcoin?  probably is good for bitcoin when there are problems with other financial systems.

"probably is good for bitcoin when there are problems with other financial systems." "I still believe that BTC is somewhat of a hedge against the dollar".

That's precisely what I was alluding to when I mentioned the 8000% growth rate. You made my point against yourself all on your own.

"Maybe I evaded your question b/c your question NOT contribute directly to the relevance of the discussion regaring BTC's tipping point?"

At best, that's called debating for the sake of debate, at worst, reversed psychology? I'll leave it the readers of this thread to decide for themeselves of the pertinence of your answer.

You're a debate killer, I'm done with you.

Thank you.

"Sigh, I see we can't have a reasonable conversation without insulting each other on the internet."

Call me the bad guy.

Now seriously, when you said "I am not talking about what unknown coin is out there", how can you possibly base you argument on the fact that you simply "were stating that in [my] post that [you] replied to, mentioned that...".

I don't see what you're talking about right now. Get your facts straight.

I will take your throwing out insults and attempting to recharacterize our communications in this thread as a signal of your capitulation.  By the way, I am NOT trying to win anything with you, such as a debate - even though we seem to have differing views regarding whether BTC is doom and gloom or NOT.  You assert that it is doom and gloom, and I do NOT.

I'm not calling you a bad guy...

You said ""A child's toy in the future will put to shame the combined might of all the computers on earth right now"

To which I understood as"something unknown is out there that will be the next big thing"

To which I replied "I am not talking about an Unknown coin or anything that will be the next big thing"

I'm not sure what you are trying to get at?

Definitely with you on this one... This is one of the phenomenons that has the capacity to grow like, the internet, Visa, and Smartphones. Simply because its needed and necessary in todays world.

I think we will look back at this in 5-10 years time and be like "remember when btc was only $600, now its $10000. If only!

BTC The future.

tipping point is not equal to mainstream adoption. and when i look back at 1994, internet was at the tipping point too because back then you could not stop the internet from success anymore.

mainstream adoption will happen some years in the future.

http://traackr.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/tippingpoint.png

Ok, I'll rephrase the statement, i was not alluding to another altcoin which would destroy btc, but to the processing power of computers in the next decades that would render its algorythme obsolete :"This exponential growth in the form of 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048, 4096, 8192, 16384, 32768, 65536, 131072, 262144, 524288, 1048576,"  "Computer processing power will increase 1000+ fold during the next decade, one million fold over the next two decades, and a billion fold in three decades. Considering the current power of our computers, a billion-fold increase in computational power is almost unimaginable".

Just imagine how easy it will be to crack 256-bit key by brute force.

How can you possibly say something and the exact opposite in the next sentence? It amazes me.

"I will take [...] as a signal of your capitulation"; "I am NOT trying to win anything with you".

Geez! Please don't make me look it up in dictionary for you.

Agreed that reaching mainstream adoption is a consequence of having reached the tipping point, not the indication of reaching the tipping point.

Additionally, I think it's hard to have a real conversation about where the tipping point is in the moment, it's something that's best understood after having gone through it.

I don't think we're close to the tipping point yet. The infrastructure that's been created for it could easily disappear - by the creators, the stakeholders, or the government. Additionally, a significant majority of people may know the world "bitcoin" but don't know, care, or believe in the service/purpose/value of Bitcoin.

More retailers (like Dell), more service providers (like Coinbase), and more advocates (like all of us) are what's required to reach the tipping point...but once we believe we've reached it, we'll realize we're well past the tipping point.

One more thought, big swings in BTC price (up or down) help with awareness, but not always with adoption. If the news reports today "BTC to USD price dipped below $500 for the first time since May today" alot of people will be saying "see, I told you so, it's just a fad..."

I gotcha, well yes I think that will happen...but also the algorithm can always be modified...

I personally don't know if BTC will be around in 5 years, I am just enjoying the ride while its around.  It could be around with a modified version it could be taken over.  The point of all these threads about price/speculation seem rather silly though when none of us are what will happen.

probably he is NOT getting at anything and he seems liek a troller goofball that does NOT really have anything meaningful or substantive to contribute and is merely just engaging in diversion tactics.

O.k.   Go cry somewhere else then.. since you have NOT had anything meaningful to add in approximately your last several posts.

Look, I'm not taking no orders from you. I'm here to stay, got it?

Be careful no to get burned though. You're right to point to price and speculation, especillay when technological singularity is nearly than anyone knows. Additionally, would you agree that a modified version would come too late, and at any rate, useless?

at least i never said something about the price  ;)

I am ordering you to stay here.... That's an order.  You better listen, Serby!!!! 

You sound like a 12 years old kid. Let the adults do the talking, JayJuanGee.

 :-X 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGlyFc79BUE

May the BruteForceCoin be with you, HA HA HA
 

Been saying this forever, BTC is the next biggest currency in the making!

The force is strong in that one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDPlLluNR6I

Is anyone not concerned with the price?  I mean this does not look good for us!

I think we'll see another good run in the future, maybe now 1000/btc but hopefully up to 600usd/btc again.  Otherwise, things are looking crap right now with the direction we're heading.  :-\

There is NOTHING really wrong with bitcoin... so prices hovering in the $300s for more than a month is NOT a death knell to bitcoin and does NOT foreclose another BTC price run.  Surely a BTC price run may have been delayed because of the ongoing downward price manipulation, yet there is NOTHING really fundamentally stopping that we could have a BTC price run anytime between 1 month and 18 months...  that will take us to a new ATH into the $3k to $13k price range. 

In these price ranges, I would NOT be writing any BTC obituary - yet, if fundamentals change or if BTC prices get into the double digits, then maybe we will need to revisit the question.

not really too concerned. there's 3600 coins a day being mined... still 21m coin limit, this investment is a long term play. meow

Tipping point?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-10-28/things-make-you-go-hmmm-swiss-gold-status-quo-showdown

How about if the Swiss return their currency to a gold backing?
Avoiding the depression of being dragged down by the EU?
What do you think that will do to gold and Bitcoin?

It could be big, and it could be good for Bitcoin.

And this is soon...

this....this and this. i'm not worried. we are in for the long haul

i have only just noticed, there are some people in positions to manipulate btc prices and there are also insides that are at work and have been able to act just before some major announcement.  Even though these manipulators may NOT be able to effect the long-term direction of BTC, they could affect BTC and cause volatility for the short term.  There ARE entities and people that do have powers to affect the direction of BTC and i think they will.

I see the tipping point as happening when it hits a much higher percent adoption. (It's definitely not there yet!)

That would be great for gold.
Bitcoin? Not so sure.

Indeed, Bitcoin has reached the tipping point. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=766406.0)

i guess you have to study the power of the network effect  (+ power of VC money  :D )