Bitcoin Forum

Economy => Services => Topic started by: jamesg on March 26, 2012, 06:33:23 PM



Title: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: jamesg on March 26, 2012, 06:33:23 PM
 :)Hello fellow bitcoiners,

Off the back of the glbse 2.0 release and with a soon to be influx of mining equipment, I would like to get the communities thoughts on an idea I have been keeping in my back pocket until now.

Introduction:
Mining assets are becoming extremely common on the GLBSE. We have companies that offer ownership of hardware, bonds that correlate to actual hash rate. But overall nothing too exciting, too large, or too profitable.

Until now.
Introducing Gigamining Bonds!

The first bond to offer more than 1 MHash/s per bond, and run by a name you know has the hashes to back it up.

Summary:
There will be a total of 10,000 (50Gh!!!!!) bonds issued, with each bond worth a massive 5 MHash/s.

During the initial offering, they will be sold for a cheap ?? (give me your feedback). All maintenance free.

Each bond will pay 100% of PPS earnings every 7 days.

The bond never expire.

I reserve the option to repurchase bonds at 105% of the highest traded price over the last 15 days.

About Me
Most of you know who I am, most of you know I have the ability to deliver this kind of power. I'm not going anywhere any time soon, so trust that your coin is safe, and doing its best work for you, here. If you have any questions, ask them in the thread.

Where is 50Gh going to come from?
- I currently run 33Gh in GPUs (undervolted and underclocked to 26Gh for the summer)
- I also run 11 Butterfly Labs singles @ 9Gh
- Soon 4 mini rig boxes will arrive with a total of 100Gh of mining capacity.

I feel this is an exciting opportunity to be able to make such a compelling offer on the glbse. I would love to hear your thoughts and feedback, so post a reply and lets get the conversation started.

Best,
gigavps

Q/A

Q: What's the price of each bond?
A: This is something I want to hear your feedback on. What do you think?

Q: When would the inital offering happen?
A: Vbs has proposed that the initial offering happens before the equipment arrives. What do you think?

Q: Who's the hottie in your profile pic?
A: That's my wife.  ;D


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: rapeghost on March 26, 2012, 06:47:09 PM
I have known gigavps to be the one of the most professional miners in the community. I think you'd do well to get into business with him.



Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: Philj on March 26, 2012, 06:52:32 PM
watching. any idea on a IPO date?


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: jamesg on March 26, 2012, 06:56:02 PM
watching. any idea on a IPO date?

IPO would happen once the equipment arrives. I will also update the OP with this info.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: rjk on March 26, 2012, 06:57:32 PM
Posting in a soon-to-be epic thread, in order to register my profound interest and to subscribe to updates in the future.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: roomservice on March 26, 2012, 07:00:09 PM
I'am IN!


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: DILLIGAF on March 26, 2012, 07:00:10 PM
.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: Kaos on March 26, 2012, 07:21:17 PM
I will love you as much as that girl on your avatar if you manage to pull this hat trick right!!! I'm In!!!


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: jamesg on March 26, 2012, 07:34:21 PM
I will love you as much as that girl on your avatar if you manage to pull this hat trick right!!! I'm In!!!

So ... I've been meaning to ask for sooo long ... OT, I know ... but who's that hottie ?
 

That would be my wife.  ;D

I'll add this info to the OP.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: Kaos on March 26, 2012, 07:40:01 PM
I will love you as much as that girl on your avatar if you manage to pull this hat trick right!!! I'm In!!!

So ... I've been meaning to ask for sooo long ... OT, I know ... but who's that hottie ?
 

That would be my wife.  ;D

I'll add this info to the OP.

Okay I half-way retract my comment then, I will *not* love you as much as your wife. Ain't no chance I'm cooking you dinner... However, I'm still very interested in your new venture... Keep us updated.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: jamesg on March 26, 2012, 07:40:10 PM
No disrespect, but she's a looker. Congrats.

And she let's me mine bitcoins.  ;)

Now back to the topic at hand.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: jamesg on March 26, 2012, 07:41:23 PM
So what do you this each bond should be offered for?

I was thinking along the lines of 1.2BTC per bond.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: JL421 on March 26, 2012, 08:05:03 PM
Glad to see this finally started going through.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: jamesg on March 26, 2012, 08:08:02 PM
Glad to see this finally started going through.

Thank you JL421 for consulting with me regarding this endeavor.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: wknight on March 26, 2012, 08:11:28 PM
Interesting. Was talking about doing something like this with co-workers.. going to watch


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: Kaos on March 26, 2012, 08:35:38 PM
So what do you this each coupon should be offered for?

I was thinking along the lines of 1.2BTC per coupon.

Let's do the math.. Each share (is that what you mean by coupon) on GLBSE will be traded fro 1.2BTC (~$5.60 in current rates).

5Mh/s with the current difficulty = 0.101 BTC/month (~$0.47). So ROI/share will be in about 1.4 years but accounting for profitability decline it's more likely to be 1.7 years. That's not accounting for anything else but pure ROI from dividend.

Say we want to reach the equivalent of a 5970 (700Mh/s) that would cost us 168 BTC (~$783). It will generate 14BTC/month (~$65)... Same ROI obviously.


Now let's make it interesting:

* If I were to start mining today from scratch with an ATI 5970 that would cost me for one year: $650ish for the rig + $394 electricity (300 watt at 0.15kWh)
* If I were to do the same with a BFL Single (assuming I will be running it down to 700 Mh/sec and not the advertised 832 Mh/sec) that would cost me for one year: $600 for the BFL + $105 electricity (80 watt at 0.15kWh).

All of the above giving me the same returns mining-wise. On top of that add the benefits of having your mining power in easily changeable shares and the potential benefits from that.


Thus at 1.2BTC it's a good deal. At  1BTC it would be a steal :)




How's my math!??!




Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: wknight on March 26, 2012, 08:38:55 PM
Ok gigavps.. i have a few questions.. just to keep you thinking.

First are you selling shares? with 100% PPS?

Or are you selling Bonds that are worth a certain amount of money for 5 GH/s?

Just an example.. 1 bond $3,500 for 5 GH/S and never expires.

What do you mean by selling it back at 105% I dont want it anymore you will pay 5% more then what i paid? I am sure your going to need a time limit on this one :)

What covers the electric costs and internet costs? And or network related infrastructure and maintenance.  


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: jamesg on March 26, 2012, 08:42:23 PM
Let's do the math.. Each share (is that what you mean by coupon) on GLBSE will be traded fro 1.2BTC (~$5.60 in current rates).

5Mh/s with the current difficulty = 0.101 BTC/month (~$0.47). So ROI/share will be in about 1.4 years but accounting for profitability decline it's more likely to be 1.7 years. That's not accounting for anything else but pure ROI from dividend.

Say we want to reach the equivalent of a 5970 (700Mh/s) that would cost us 168 BTC (~$783). It will generate 14BTC/month (~$65)... Same ROI obviously.

Now let's make it interesting:

* If I were to start mining today from scratch with an ATI 5970 that would cost me for one year: $650ish for the rig + $394 electricity (300 watt at 0.15kWh)
* If I were to do the same with a BFL Single (assuming I will be running it down to 700 Mh/sec and not the advertised 832 Mh/sec) that would cost me for one year: $600 for the BFL + $105 electricity (80 watt at 0.15kWh).

All of the above giving me the same returns mining-wise. On top of that add the benefits of having your mining power in easily changeable shares and the potential benefits from that.

Thus at 1.2BTC it's a good deal. At  1BTC it would be a steal :)

How's my math!??!

I think your math is sound. I do want to make this an attractive offer both for the IPO and for 6 months out. It sounds like we need to be somewhere between 1 BTC and 1.2 BTC.  :D


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: wknight on March 26, 2012, 08:53:22 PM
Ahh with Kaos's post now i understand where your going with it.. i should have just waited a little while longer :)


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: jamesg on March 26, 2012, 08:54:58 PM
Ok gigavps.. i have a few questions.. just to keep you thinking.

First are you selling shares? with 100% PPS?

Or are you selling Bonds that are worth a certain amount of money for 5 GH/s?

This is a bond. The bond will pay a dividend every week that the owner of the bond holds it. Each bond is the equivalent of 5Mh/s.

Just an example.. 1 bond $3,500 for 5 GH/S and never expires.

Each bond is for 5Mh/s and will be priced somewhere in the neighborhood of 1-1.2 BTC per coupon.

What do you mean by selling it back at 105% I dont want it anymore you will pay 5% more then what i paid? I am sure your going to need a time limit on this one :)

I will retain the option to purchase back bonds at anytime for 105% of the highest trading price over the previous 15 days. So if the bonds trading high over the last 15 days was 2 BTC I would pay 105% of the 2 BTC to repurchase a coupon.

What covers the electric costs and internet costs? And or network related infrastructure and maintenance.  

Between the mini rig box's efficiency (spec'd to be 20Mh/w) and maximizing the BTC output of the hashing power, I should be able to more than cover the electrical costs.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: Kaos on March 26, 2012, 08:56:34 PM
How's my math!??!

I think your math is sound. I do want to make this an attractive offer both for the IPO and for 6 months out. It sounds like we need to be somewhere between 1 BTC and 1.2 BTC.  :D

Let's put it this way.. I dont want the mess, the noise and the maintenance and it will take me a couple of months to get my BFL single. On the other hand you can start now. The BFL Single was advertised for 600 MH/sec and now it's over 800 MH/sec, I say it can reach to 1Gh/sec by Q3 2012 but that's about it.

If you sell each share (5Mh/sec) for 1BTC today to brake even (ber BFL Single) you will need to actually sell 700Mh/sec on each BFL and use the rest as your pure profit. Assuming that they can push the BFL single to go higher that will give you a nice little bonus by Q1 2013.

Now since you have a mixed rig between GPUs and BFLs you will take a small profit hit (i.e. less margin) on your GPUs. I hope (assume?) that your secret plan is to use that bond money this year to buy more FPGAs and get rid of your GPUs (selling them to recuperate some of the cost) by at least Q2 2013. Which means that by Q2 2013 not only you would have managed to upgrade your farm but you'll have made a good profit at the same time doing it.

So, IPO shares should be at 1BTC (make it lucrative) then let offer and demand take care of the share price. Also I'm in if you can guarantee that there is not time limit on this and if you choose to buy them back you will indeed buy at +5% of whatever is the current share price. :)


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: jamesg on March 26, 2012, 09:04:48 PM
Let's put it this way.. I dont want the mess, the noise and the maintenance and it will take me a couple of months to get my BFL single. On the other hand you can start now. The BFL Single was advertised for 600 MH/sec and now it's over 800 MH/sec, I say it can reach to 1Gh/sec by Q3 2012 but that's about it.

If you sell each share (5Mh/sec) for 1BTC today to brake even (ber BFL Single) you will need to actually sell 700Mh/sec on each BFL and use the rest as your pure profit. Assuming that they can push the BFL single to go higher that will give you a nice little bonus by Q1 2013.

Now since you have a mixed rig between GPUs and BFLs you will take a small profit hit (i.e. less margin) on your GPUs. I hope (assume?) that your secret plan is to use that bond money this year to buy more FPGAs and get rid of your GPUs (selling them to recuperate some of the cost) by at least Q2 2013. Which means that by Q2 2013 not only you would have managed to upgrade your farm but you'll have made a good profit at the same time doing it.

So, IPO shares should be at 1BTC (make it lucrative) then let offer and demand take care of the share price. Also I'm in if you can guarantee that there is not time limit on this and if you choose to buy them back you will indeed buy at +5% of whatever is the current share price. :)

The bond would actually be fulfilled with 2 BFL mini rigs. I have already purchased 4 of them.

Each mini rig is spec'd at 25.1Gh with a power draw of 1.25Kw per hour.

I pay $0.0714 per Kw/h.

Since you seem to like doing the math, I'll let you take it from here.



Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: BTC_Bear on March 26, 2012, 09:20:21 PM
Best Coupon Bond offering I've seen on the forum. :)

All the information laid out for others to 'do the math'?


btw:

Quote
Q: Who's the hottie in your profile pic?
A: That's my wife. 


Dude, your wife is bald.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: Kaos on March 26, 2012, 09:21:43 PM
Ha! At this stage I need a spreadsheet but yea I can see that this could be a good deal for both parties.

I'm interested to see how this would compare with GPUMAX (don't have an invite thus can't compare or comment) or BTCSYN if/when they add their Icarus boards and start paying dividends (they've been delivered for a couple of weeks now and I assume they're working hard to set them up and integrate them to their P2Pool, so everything is up in the air still and I can see their share loosing ground if they can't deliver by mid-May).  


I can tell you one thing. Q3-Q4 2012 are going to be a very very fun periods. As we've reached the end of Q1, we can see clearly that FPGAs alone have proven to be quite a disruptive technology and this is only the beginning. Icarus is dead as a project and everyone is contemplating wether they should keep their money and wait for Lancelot or buy a BFL which have slowly started to get delviered and also Nanominer is coming along.

Since you have two BFL mini-rigs plus two more coming along (grats! :) you can be quite an interesting option for people who want "in" but don't want to either to wait months for delivery of a BFL; wait for Lancelot or any other up-and-coming FPGA project and definitely (like me) aint going to spend a penny with GPUs.

Let's see how Gigamining will develop. :)


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: DILLIGAF on March 26, 2012, 10:29:46 PM
I hope (assume?) that your secret plan is to use that bond money this year to buy more FPGAs and get rid of your GPUs (selling them to recuperate some of the cost) by at least Q2 2013. Which means that by Q2 2013 not only you would have managed to upgrade your farm but you'll have made a good profit at the same time doing it.

The plan as you can see below with his reply is to get two free/near free mini-rigs by selling off the bonds, the BTC from that sale should pretty much cover all of the rigs.




The bond would actually be fulfilled with 2 BFL mini rigs. I have already purchased 4 of them.

Each mini rig is spec'd at 25.1Gh with a power draw of 1.25Kw per hour.

I pay $0.0714 per Kw/h.

Since you seem to like doing the math, I'll let you take it from here.




Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: JWU42 on March 26, 2012, 10:32:42 PM
Hey - it is always best to play with OPM...

Bets Best of luck gigavps - I love your entrepreneurial spirit!


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: jamesg on March 26, 2012, 10:58:55 PM
The plan as you can see below with his reply is to get two free/near free mini-rigs by selling off the bonds, the BTC from that sale should pretty much cover all of the rigs.

Hi DILLIGAF,

Thank you for your feedback. I would like to make a couple points.

1. I have taken on all the risk of purchasing this equipment, up front, when everybody on the forums were claiming that BFL was a scam.
2. This equipment will be profitable for the foreseeable future whether I do the bond or not.
3. I see this as an opportunity to allow others to mine without all of the pain / headaches / etc. that comes with building a mining farm.
4. You are correct, I am also trying to make a profit.

Ultimately, I am here to try and provide the best value to date for a venture of this type.

Best,
gigavps


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: Kaos on March 26, 2012, 11:00:24 PM
I hope (assume?) that your secret plan is to use that bond money this year to buy more FPGAs and get rid of your GPUs (selling them to recuperate some of the cost) by at least Q2 2013. Which means that by Q2 2013 not only you would have managed to upgrade your farm but you'll have made a good profit at the same time doing it.

The plan as you can see below with his reply is to get two free/near free mini-rigs by selling off the bonds, the BTC from that sale should pretty much cover all of the rigs.




The bond would actually be fulfilled with 2 BFL mini rigs. I have already purchased 4 of them.

Each mini rig is spec'd at 25.1Gh with a power draw of 1.25Kw per hour.

I pay $0.0714 per Kw/h.

Since you seem to like doing the math, I'll let you take it from here.



And there's nothing wrong with that. The way I see it, he has a great reputation and if he makes a great offer then it's a win/win for everyone and thus these shares are going to fly off the shelves like hot BTC cupcakes.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: jamesg on March 26, 2012, 11:28:21 PM
The way I see it, he has a great reputation and if he makes a great offer then it's a win/win for everyone and thus these shares are going to fly off the shelves like hot BTC cupcakes.

Hi Kaos,

Thank you for your input and feedback. I truly appreciate your kind words and am eager to provide the win/win scenario you describe.

Best,
gigavps

I am also eager to hear others feedback so don't be shy!


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: DILLIGAF on March 26, 2012, 11:49:52 PM
The plan as you can see below with his reply is to get two free/near free mini-rigs by selling off the bonds, the BTC from that sale should pretty much cover all of the rigs.

Hi DILLIGAF,

Thank you for your feedback. I would like to make a couple points.

1. I have taken on all the risk of purchasing this equipment, up front, when everybody on the forums were claiming that BFL was a scam.

Nobody claims they are scam now especially you as you have many of the singles according to you that were in your possession before the mini-rig was even announced let alone available for purchase and you are transferring 100% of the risk onto the bond holders with this idea.

Quote
2. This equipment will be profitable for the foreseeable future whether I do the bond or not.

Can be depending on the diff/exchange rate.

Quote
3. I see this as an opportunity to allow others to mine without all of the pain / headaches / etc. that comes with building a mining farm.

Not much of a hassle with them things plug cable into computer plug into wall turn it on fire up mining program and go.

Quote
4. You are correct, I am also trying to make a profit.

Yes nice healthy free 50gh/s.

Quote
Ultimately, I am here to try and provide the best value to date for a venture of this type.

Best,
gigavps

Well these mining companies I see on here offering up this type of deal include all equipment purchased with the funds that were raised along with all the BTC produced by that equipment less their overhead, this endeavor gives you a quick profit while taking away all your risk of purchase by not doing all of the equipment and the excess BTC that will be mined in the deal.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: jamesg on March 27, 2012, 12:01:26 AM
Nobody claims they are scam now especially you as you have many of the singles according to you that were in your possession before the mini-rig was even announced let alone available for purchase and you are transferring 100% of the risk onto the bond holders with this idea.

You are correct. I was just informed that I will be receiving 4 mini rigs instead of the two rig boxes that I originally purchased. I did however, put up the money for these rigs well before I received all of my singles.

Not much of a hassle with them things plug cable into computer plug into wall turn it on fire up mining program and go.

You are also correct. The only hassles are a) getting the funds together, b) sitting on your hands for three months until the equipment arrives and c) dealing with the heat 60 singles would generate.

If you feel that I am not providing enough value, please make a recommendation. I would much rather discussion solutions to the problems you see than to try and rebut the same arguments over again.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: DILLIGAF on March 27, 2012, 12:18:43 AM
Nobody claims they are scam now especially you as you have many of the singles according to you that were in your possession before the mini-rig was even announced let alone available for purchase and you are transferring 100% of the risk onto the bond holders with this idea.

You are correct. I was just informed that I will be receiving 4 mini rigs instead of the two rig boxes that I originally purchased. I did however, put up the money for these rigs well before I received all of my singles.

I see the word all there qualifying the risk you had taken by implying reception of some of them before that purchase.

Not much of a hassle with them things plug cable into computer plug into wall turn it on fire up mining program and go.

You are also correct. The only hassles are a) getting the funds together, b) sitting on your hands for three months until the equipment arrives and c) dealing with the heat 60 singles would generate.

If you feel that I am not providing enough value, please make a recommendation. I would much rather discussion solutions to the problems you see than to try and rebut the same arguments over again.

You could start by doing as all the other companies have done namely include everything that the BTC invested has bought as I have pointed out already this deal gives you ~$30,000 profit off the hop plus all the BTC that will ever be produced by those two extra boxes you get to make out of it. Now that people know that this is the idea you could state this in your terms of offering if they buy still knowing this is the case you have been honest and upfront with them so there would be no basis for any more discussion on this aspect of the deal. If people want to give you ~$30,000 bonus plus BTC produced off that bonus equipment for having bought said equipment more power to them.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: jamesg on March 27, 2012, 12:35:14 AM
You could start by doing as all the other companies have done namely include everything that the BTC invested has bought as I have pointed out already this deal gives you ~$30,000 profit off the hop plus all the BTC that will ever be produced by those two extra boxes you get to make out of it.

DILLIGAF, the only investment that has been made thus far is by me. There is no bond yet and no initial sale.

This is not an IPO where you own a share of a company. This is a bond coupon that guarantees to pay 100% PPS at 5Mh/s per coupon. Every other investment vehicle like this thus far has similar profit margins, just not at scale.

Are you saying that it is wrong for me scale up the same business model already proven by others on the glbse?

Now that people know that this is the idea you could state this in your terms of offering if they buy still knowing this is the case you have been honest and upfront with them so there would be no basis for any more discussion on this aspect of the deal. If people want to give you ~$30,000 bonus plus BTC produced off that bonus equipment for having bought said equipment more power to them.

I see no hardware listing here -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=65569.0

Only a contract to pay PPS of 1Mh/s to each coupon holder.

If you feel I have been misleading in someway, then you do not need to participate. If you can get a better deal, then I would recommend you setup your own mining company.

I am asking for pricing feedback from the community in the thread. If you think the price should be different from what I have suggested, please say so.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: Vbs on March 27, 2012, 12:43:31 AM
Great idea man, running quick estimations, 1BTC for 5MH/s seems a great price, I'll be sure to join! ;D


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: DILLIGAF on March 27, 2012, 12:44:32 AM
You could start by doing as all the other companies have done namely include everything that the BTC invested has bought as I have pointed out already this deal gives you ~$30,000 profit off the hop plus all the BTC that will ever be produced by those two extra boxes you get to make out of it.

DILLIGAF, the only investment that has been made thus far is by me. There is no bond yet and no initial sale.

This is not an IPO where you own a share of a company. This is a bond coupon that guarantees to pay 100% PPS at 5Mh/s per coupon. Every other investment vehicle like this thus far has similar profit margins, just not at scale.

Are you saying that it is wrong for me scale up the same business model already proven by others on the glbse?

Now that people know that this is the idea you could state this in your terms of offering if they buy still knowing this is the case you have been honest and upfront with them so there would be no basis for any more discussion on this aspect of the deal. If people want to give you ~$30,000 bonus plus BTC produced off that bonus equipment for having bought said equipment more power to them.

I see no hardware listing here -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=65569.0

Only a contract to pay PPS of 1Mh/s to each coupon holder.

If you feel I have been misleading in someway, then you do not need to participate. If you can get a better deal, then I would recommend you setup your own mining company.

I am asking for pricing feedback from the community in the thread. If you think the price should be different from what I have suggested, please say so.

Well you can chop it in half to reflect the fact that those 50gh/s you are bonding is actually included in that bond not the full purchase price of the 100gh/s you are getting for those BTC you raise with this. Oh and the hardware mentioned that you intend to use for this bond is here.



The bond would actually be fulfilled with 2 BFL mini rigs. I have already purchased 4 of them.

Each mini rig is spec'd at 25.1Gh with a power draw of 1.25Kw per hour.

I pay $0.0714 per Kw/h.

Since you seem to like doing the math, I'll let you take it from here.




Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: copumpkin on March 27, 2012, 12:46:33 AM
Nobody claims they are scam now especially you as you have many of the singles according to you that were in your possession before the mini-rig was even announced let alone available for purchase and you are transferring 100% of the risk onto the bond holders with this idea.

You are correct. I was just informed that I will be receiving 4 mini rigs instead of the two rig boxes that I originally purchased. I did however, put up the money for these rigs well before I received all of my singles.

I see the word all there qualifying the risk you had taken by implying reception of some of them before that purchase.

Not much of a hassle with them things plug cable into computer plug into wall turn it on fire up mining program and go.

You are also correct. The only hassles are a) getting the funds together, b) sitting on your hands for three months until the equipment arrives and c) dealing with the heat 60 singles would generate.

If you feel that I am not providing enough value, please make a recommendation. I would much rather discussion solutions to the problems you see than to try and rebut the same arguments over again.

You could start by doing as all the other companies have done namely include everything that the BTC invested has bought as I have pointed out already this deal gives you ~$30,000 profit off the hop plus all the BTC that will ever be produced by those two extra boxes you get to make out of it. Now that people know that this is the idea you could state this in your terms of offering if they buy still knowing this is the case you have been honest and upfront with them so there would be no basis for any more discussion on this aspect of the deal. If people want to give you ~$30,000 bonus plus BTC produced off that bonus equipment for having bought said equipment more power to them.

Why are you so confrontational about this? He's not scamming people, he's not ripping people off, and he's offering a contract priced on par with similar ones. He's invested many many tens of thousands of dollars into his mining infrastructure and has the experience and skill to manage it, and he doesn't work for free. He has to keep paying the electric bills for these things forever, and the hashing isn't tied to a particular rig, so if one of the BFL miners dies or doesn't work for whatever reason, he still owes people 50ghash/s forever (unless he buys it back, in which case he still makes a loss). There's certainly risk in it for him, and risk carries a premium.

He started the thread as a question about what a good price for this type of contract would be. He suggested a price to get the conversation going, and if you don't like it, why not suggest one you think is more appropriate and why you think so. It's generally more productive to be respectful instead of confrontational.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: copumpkin on March 27, 2012, 12:47:26 AM
Well you can chop it in half to reflect the fact that those 50gh/s you are bonding is actually included in that bond not the full purchase price of the 100gh/s you are getting for those BTC you raise with this.

That analysis is too simplistic. Can you do some real math and come back with a more reasonable suggestion?


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: jamesg on March 27, 2012, 12:54:28 AM
Well you can chop it in half to reflect the fact that those 50gh/s you are bonding is actually included in that bond not the full purchase price of the 100gh/s you are getting for those BTC you raise with this. Oh and the hardware mentioned that you intend to use for this bond is here.

I have decided to disclose all of my hashing power so that investors can know that I am capable of fulfilling the bond payments even if equipment was to fail. It also states in bold that the 10k coupons equate to 50Gh.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: Vbs on March 27, 2012, 01:05:20 AM
Will you wait for the Mini-rigs for the IPO, or are you thinking on making it sooner? ;)


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: jamesg on March 27, 2012, 01:07:12 AM
Will you wait for the Mini-rigs for the IPO, or are you thinking on making it sooner? ;)

I was originally planning to wait until they arrived.

If the community would like the initial offering to happen sooner, I would definitely be willing to consider it.

I will update the OP with this.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: DILLIGAF on March 27, 2012, 01:11:28 AM
Well you can chop it in half to reflect the fact that those 50gh/s you are bonding is actually included in that bond not the full purchase price of the 100gh/s you are getting for those BTC you raise with this.

That analysis is too simplistic. Can you do some real math and come back with a more reasonable suggestion?

Original idea 10,000 shares at 1.2 BTC equals 12,000 BTC  at this moment in time ~$55,000 4x BFL min-rigs equals ~60,000 or $5,000 cost to him for the two mini-rigs he gains through this bond if BTC goes over $5 you actually pay him to have bought these not just the gain of the rigs. So if that math is not simple enough for you then I don't particularly care just be informed as to what is going on he makes essentially two free mini-rigs by doing this if your all happy with that purchase away. Oh he says he is setting up mining company a couple of times now and as I have already pointed out all of them I have seen include all the equipment and BTC earned from that equipment in their calculations for the BTC put up to start it. Now I would imagine he will quibble over this saying it is bond well if it is that then continue to refer to it as such.

Well you can chop it in half to reflect the fact that those 50gh/s you are bonding is actually included in that bond not the full purchase price of the 100gh/s you are getting for those BTC you raise with this. Oh and the hardware mentioned that you intend to use for this bond is here.

I have decided to disclose all of my hashing power so that investors can know that I am capable of fulfilling the bond payments even if equipment was to fail. It also states in bold that the 10k coupons equate to 50Gh.

Good enough as I have said now people know the rest they can buy if they wish too I don't care one way or the other just pointing out the math of it as they seem to be fond of and the confusing terms you have used it is either bond or mining company can't be both the way you are doing it.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: Vbs on March 27, 2012, 01:14:44 AM
Let's just say that with ~$0.20/kWh where I live, I'm definitely interested! ;D


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: jamesg on March 27, 2012, 01:24:43 AM
Original idea 10,000 shares at 1.2 BTC equals 12,000 BTC  at this moment in time ~$55,000 4x BFL min-rigs equals ~60,000 or $5,000 cost to him for the two mini-rigs he gains through this bond if BTC goes over $5 you actually pay him to have bought these not just the gain of the rigs. So if that math is not simple enough for you then I don't particularly care just be informed as to what is going on he makes essentially two free mini-rigs by doing this if your all happy with that purchase away.

DILLIGAF, your math is a little simplistic. Let me pose a couple of questions.

- Who pays for the electricity to run the 50Gh?
- Who takes on the responsibility to deliver the coupon payments every week?
- Who is effected if equipment dies?
- Who pays for downtime?
- Who pays for power outages?
- Who pays if the HVAC dies?

To answer all of those questions (and i'm sure there are more I am not thinking of) at once, I am taking on these responsibilities. Again, I hope to be setup in such a way to be able to still deliver even in the face of great adversity.

If you feel that this does not warrant the premium I suggested, please let me know what you feel is a reasonable rate.

Good enough as I have said now people know the rest they can buy if they wish too I don't care one way or the other just pointing out the math of it as they seem to be fond of and the confusing terms you have used it is either bond or mining company can't be both the way you are doing it.

I have changed the name of the venture to "Gigamining Bonds" to try and be as clear as possible.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: copumpkin on March 27, 2012, 01:28:03 AM
Well you can chop it in half to reflect the fact that those 50gh/s you are bonding is actually included in that bond not the full purchase price of the 100gh/s you are getting for those BTC you raise with this.

That analysis is too simplistic. Can you do some real math and come back with a more reasonable suggestion?

Original idea 10,000 shares at 1.2 BTC equals 12,000 BTC  at this moment in time ~$55,000 4x BFL min-rigs equals ~60,000 or $5,000 cost to him for the two mini-rigs he gains through this bond if BTC goes over $5 you actually pay him to have bought these not just the gain of the rigs. So if that math is not simple enough for you then I don't particularly care just be informed as to what is going on he makes essentially two free mini-rigs by doing this if your all happy with that purchase away. Oh he says he is setting up mining company a couple of times now and as I have already pointed out all of them I have seen include all the equipment and BTC earned from that equipment in their calculations for the BTC put up to start it. Now I would imagine he will quibble over this saying it is bond well if it is that then continue to refer to it as such.

Well you can chop it in half to reflect the fact that those 50gh/s you are bonding is actually included in that bond not the full purchase price of the 100gh/s you are getting for those BTC you raise with this. Oh and the hardware mentioned that you intend to use for this bond is here.

I have decided to disclose all of my hashing power so that investors can know that I am capable of fulfilling the bond payments even if equipment was to fail. It also states in bold that the 10k coupons equate to 50Gh.

Good enough as I have said now people know the rest they can buy if they wish too I don't care one way or the other just pointing out the math of it as they seem to be fond of and the confusing terms you have used it is either bond or mining company can't be both the way you are doing it.

Usually people don't take their counterparty making a profit as an insult, if they make a profit too. Would you be less opposed had he lied and said he had no BFLs and was just GPU mining with the increased electricity costs?

Either way, his electricity costs may be lower than many people's because of where he lives and his agreements for bulk power. He has infrastructure for monitoring miners and keeping them running at all times, which is more than most casual miners can say. In short, he's got some degree of an economy of scale. And, regarding risk, as I said before, if hardware fails or some other catastrophic event happens, he either has to buy the bonds back or find some other way to provide 50ghash/s.

The positive response on this thread from everyone but you suggests that you're approaching this from a different angle from everyone else. The information he put out there suggests he's got a decent profit margin on this deal, but it isn't risk-free or "free money" by any means, due to the running costs and so on.

To put this in a different way, say you're happily going to a store and buying your groceries from them, because the food is worth more to you than the money you hand over to them to buy it. One day, you look at their supplier invoices and see that their prices are marked up by 200%. Would you stop shopping there? Would you leave angry notes on the store's door telling the store manager and the store's customers about the purported price gouging going on?


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: Vbs on March 27, 2012, 01:48:45 AM
Giga is selling hassle-free MH/s at a fixed price up front, how complex can that be to understand??? Its more easily compared to running your own hardware than trying to estimate the earnings from a variable mining operation.

Funny how making things simpler sometimes ignites the most unimaginable arguments... ???


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: DILLIGAF on March 27, 2012, 02:40:06 AM
The positive response on this thread from everyone but you suggests that you're approaching this from a different angle from everyone else.

Yes I am that angle would be what he is essentially telling you people is this. Give me ~$60,000 I am going to buy 4 machines with that money then dedicate 2 of them to your payback. The other two I get for just being me the wonderful person I am, thank you very much for your donation. Now you if fools want to go for that go right ahead because that is exactly what the proposal is.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: rjk on March 27, 2012, 02:42:52 AM
The positive response on this thread from everyone but you suggests that you're approaching this from a different angle from everyone else.

Yes I am that angle would be what he is essentially telling you people is this. Give me ~$60,000 I am going to buy 4 machines with that money then dedicate 2 of them to your payback. The other two I get for just being me the wonderful person I am, thank you very much for your donation. Now you if fools want to go for that go right ahead because that is exactly what the proposal is.
Since there are investors itching to lay hands on this offering, why not start a clone of it for yourself? Oh I know why, you don't have shit to back up the bonds if the hardware fails or whatever reason.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: John (John K.) on March 27, 2012, 02:58:03 AM
Sounds good. I'll be investing too when all the details are out  ;D


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: DILLIGAF on March 27, 2012, 03:12:06 AM
The positive response on this thread from everyone but you suggests that you're approaching this from a different angle from everyone else.

Yes I am that angle would be what he is essentially telling you people is this. Give me ~$60,000 I am going to buy 4 machines with that money then dedicate 2 of them to your payback. The other two I get for just being me the wonderful person I am, thank you very much for your donation. Now you if fools want to go for that go right ahead because that is exactly what the proposal is.
Since there are investors itching to lay hands on this offering, why not start a clone of it for yourself? Oh I know why, you don't have shit to back up the bonds if the hardware fails or whatever reason.

Well yes I have had that thought, Are these people stupid enough to go for it twice? Yeah come give me some free hardware as well although I would do it differently. To start I would have trust account at my lawyers office in which I would deposit the funds from my business to cover loss of machine(s) and I have plenty of it to do so troll, secondly I would have actual hardware in my possession and last but not least it would be structured in a way such that the bond holders did not get screwed so bad. Well you all know what you are getting into by now so good luck..


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: copumpkin on March 27, 2012, 03:19:06 AM
The positive response on this thread from everyone but you suggests that you're approaching this from a different angle from everyone else.

Yes I am that angle would be what he is essentially telling you people is this. Give me ~$60,000 I am going to buy 4 machines with that money then dedicate 2 of them to your payback. The other two I get for just being me the wonderful person I am, thank you very much for your donation. Now you if fools want to go for that go right ahead because that is exactly what the proposal is.

Well, if you're going to resort to insulting our intelligence without addressing my points, I'm going to disregard anything else you have to say, as I'm sure many others will. At first I thought you have something insightful to say, but now it's clear you're just being contrary.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: BTC_Bear on March 27, 2012, 03:24:03 AM
The positive response on this thread from everyone but you suggests that you're approaching this from a different angle from everyone else.

Yes I am that angle would be what he is essentially telling you people is this. Give me ~$60,000 I am going to buy 4 machines with that money then dedicate 2 of them to your payback. The other two I get for just being me the wonderful person I am, thank you very much for your donation. Now you if fools want to go for that go right ahead because that is exactly what the proposal is.


Lets do an extreme example: Lets replace (he) with Warren Buffet.

Warren: I want you to invest with me by buying bonds and I will pay dividends on your investment. By the way, I am going to use your money to become a Billionaire and make money.

Investors: Where do I sign.


Now, I am not implying that Giga is Warren. But he is aspiring to become Warren and willing to possibly bring others along for some profit. It is entirely possible that it will not work. That is why it is called: INVESTING.




Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: adamstgBit on March 27, 2012, 03:36:22 AM
The positive response on this thread from everyone but you suggests that you're approaching this from a different angle from everyone else.

Yes I am that angle would be what he is essentially telling you people is this. Give me ~$60,000 I am going to buy 4 machines with that money then dedicate 2 of them to your payback. The other two I get for just being me the wonderful person I am, thank you very much for your donation. Now you if fools want to go for that go right ahead because that is exactly what the proposal is.


Lets do an extreme example: Lets replace (he) with Warren Buffet.

Warren: I want you to invest with me by buying bonds and I will pay dividends on your investment. By the way, I am going to use your money to become a Billionaire and make money.

Investors: Where do I sign.


Now, I am not implying that Giga is Warren. But he is aspiring to become Warren and willing to possibly bring others along for some profit. It is entirely possible that it will not work. That is why it is called: INVESTING.




so.... Where do I sign?  :D


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: TheOtherGuy on March 27, 2012, 03:40:49 AM
Feedback

1 BTC would be more reasonable for me. The payback at today's difficulty and price is about 300 days. At 1.2 BTC the payback goes to almost exactly 1 year. I think I would buy in at either price but my level of participation would probably change depending on what that price is.

I do believe though that you will sell all of them quickly at either price. I think your reputation alone will sell an awful lot.

My BFL Singles (imaginary to date) have a payback of 281 days. I need to get my GPU's replaced soon as my electricity is going to .13 in May.

Good luck and I will be following along.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: guruvan on March 27, 2012, 03:51:54 AM
yada yada.

This sounds like an excellent deal for our portfolio here. Of course a businessman would like to make a profit, and if he wouldn't, I don't trust him - 2 BFLs is a pretty nice little profit. I also very much appreciate anyone who is smart enough to realize their profit up front, rather than wait!!

gigavps, I'd really like to see this. The price point looks right in line. While I trust you, my partners may want some additional verification of the production of the 5Mh/s per coupon (I'm covering all my bases here)  Do you have any software in production or development to provide that?

My one issue is the repurchase (and forgive me if I failed to read exactly)

Are you offering to repurchase at 105% the (somewhat standard) previous 30day average price, or 105% the initial purchase price?

I would like the bond to be offered after the mining operation is installed. I have a good deal of money out on mining gear already, and would prefer not to pay a premium to wait for yours :D  - overspeculation before mining ops commence could be to your detriment if you have to repo coupons at an averaged price.

there are a few choice offerings now on the GLBSE, and this looks like it will be one.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: jamesg on March 27, 2012, 09:27:30 AM
gigavps, I'd really like to see this. The price point looks right in line. While I trust you, my partners may want some additional verification of the production of the 5Mh/s per coupon (I'm covering all my bases here)  Do you have any software in production or development to provide that?

Yes. I run BAMT which has a web monitoring tool so that anyone with the web address can easily see my entire farm hashing away. I currently have this page locked down in apache but would open it up for investors to review.

My one issue is the repurchase (and forgive me if I failed to read exactly)

Are you offering to repurchase at 105% the (somewhat standard) previous 30day average price, or 105% the initial purchase price?

The repurchase would be at 105% of the highest traded price over the previous 15 days.

I would like the bond to be offered after the mining operation is installed. I have a good deal of money out on mining gear already, and would prefer not to pay a premium to wait for yours :D  - overspeculation before mining ops commence could be to your detriment if you have to repo coupons at an averaged price.

there are a few choice offerings now on the GLBSE, and this looks like it will be one.

Thank you for your constructive feedback. It was my first thought also that the hashing power be installed before the initial offering.

I appreciate your kind words regarding the offering.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: jamesg on March 27, 2012, 09:48:07 AM
Feedback

1 BTC would be more reasonable for me. The payback at today's difficulty and price is about 300 days. At 1.2 BTC the payback goes to almost exactly 1 year. I think I would buy in at either price but my level of participation would probably change depending on what that price is.

Thanks for the feedback. I too am starting to that the 1 BTC range is where this bond should start at.

I do believe though that you will sell all of them quickly at either price. I think your reputation alone will sell an awful lot.

Thank you. I appreciate your kind words.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: jamesg on March 27, 2012, 09:57:40 AM
Sounds good. I'll be investing too when all the details are out  ;D

Please let me know if I have missed any details. I am trying to cover all of my basis before the mini rig boxes arrive. As full disclosure, the mini rig boxes should be arriving sometime in May.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: Kaos on March 27, 2012, 10:10:01 AM
The positive response on this thread from everyone but you suggests that you're approaching this from a different angle from everyone else.

Yes I am that angle would be what he is essentially telling you people is this. Give me ~$60,000 I am going to buy 4 machines with that money then dedicate 2 of them to your payback. The other two I get for just being me the wonderful person I am, thank you very much for your donation. Now you if fools want to go for that go right ahead because that is exactly what the proposal is.
Since there are investors itching to lay hands on this offering, why not start a clone of it for yourself? Oh I know why, you don't have shit to back up the bonds if the hardware fails or whatever reason.

Well yes I have had that thought, Are these people stupid enough to go for it twice? Yeah come give me some free hardware as well although I would do it differently. To start I would have trust account at my lawyers office in which I would deposit the funds from my business to cover loss of machine(s) and I have plenty of it to do so troll, secondly I would have actual hardware in my possession and last but not least it would be structured in a way such that the bond holders did not get screwed so bad. Well you all know what you are getting into by now so good luck..

You insist with your extremely simplistic calculations that do not account for many factors.

No offence but you either need to work on your math skills or business skills. Either way go check my math a few posts back and see why at 1BTC/5Gh it's a good deal.

Although like all investments there's a chance that within the months it will take to brake even the BTC will crash, people will lose interest and god knows what.

The only realistic big lose scenario is if gigavps desides to buy back in say 6 months while manipulating the stock to be extremely cheaper (say 0.20btc + the promised 5%) than it was when you originally bought it. But I think Gigavps has a better reputation than that to pull a fast one.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: fizzisist on March 27, 2012, 10:18:17 AM
The BFL Single was advertised for 600 MH/sec and now it's over 800 MH/sec, I say it can reach to 1Gh/sec by Q3 2012 but that's about it.

Correction, the BFL single was originally advertised at 1 GH/s (and 20 W). It was later reduced to 830 MH/s (and increased to 80W) when they actually got their hands on hardware, not simulations.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: jamesg on March 27, 2012, 12:02:02 PM
The only realistic big lose scenario is if gigavps desides to buy back in say 6 months while manipulating the stock to be extremely cheaper (say 0.20btc + the promised 5%) than it was when you originally bought it. But I think Gigavps has a better reputation than that to pull a fast one.

I have a feeling that if this bond is initially offered at 1 BTC per coupon, the initial buyers will make out on both the coupon price increase and the full 100% PPS payments.

That being said, I cannot predict the future. Each purchaser must do their due diligence to a) understand the mining business and the cycles it goes through, b) decided for themselves the value this bond offers and c) whether they would like to participate.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: Sukrim on March 27, 2012, 03:28:02 PM
[snip]
How's my math!??!
Quite bad, considering you didn't calculate for difficulty increases properly and also didn't account for the 25 BTC/block change in early december 2012.

After all, you're betting against(!) Moore's law, miner expansion, the 25 BTC/block "crash" and global hash rate. Anything more than 10-15 Bitcents per MH/s is quite insane in my opinion as a buyer.

Also (as with Meni's same bond) I'd like to have the operator verify his hash rate by: Mining on P2Pool/solo/Eligius for at least 1 week continuously to a single BTC address and then signing a message with the key of this address as proof he is in possession of that hashing power.
It is VERY easy to go Ponzi on things like this otherwise, I would NEVER invest even a single bitcent unless I have very good proof (even pictures can be made elsewhere...) that the issuer really has this hash rate at hand.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: jamesg on March 27, 2012, 03:42:35 PM
Quite bad, considering you didn't calculate for difficulty increases properly and also didn't account for the 25 BTC/block change in early december 2012.

After all, you're betting against(!) Moore's law, miner expansion, the 25 BTC/block "crash" and global hash rate. Anything more than 10-15 Bitcents per MH/s is quite insane in my opinion as a buyer.

I have made it through the price of BTC being $2 and we will make it through the halving of the block reward. The equipment this contract will run on is some of the best designed in our industry thus far.

As for the price, Meni's bond is currently trading at 1.75 BTC for 5Mh/s. So 1 BTC for a similar bond it quite a deal.

Also (as with Meni's same bond) I'd like to have the operator verify his hash rate by: Mining on P2Pool/solo/Eligius for at least 1 week continuously to a single BTC address and then signing a message with the key of this address as proof he is in possession of that hashing power.
It is VERY easy to go Ponzi on things like this otherwise, I would NEVER invest even a single bitcent unless I have very good proof (even pictures can be made elsewhere...) that the issuer really has this hash rate at hand.

I have no problems verifying my identity, hash rate, or anything else you would like to inquire about before the bond gets off the ground. I make no attempts to try and hide my identity and have done business with many people in the community.

You can look at my past post history to see pictures of my equipment (GPUs and BFL singles) or if you like, I can re-post some images.

I can understand your concerns as this is an offering "at scale" but if you looks at my -otc ratings and my business dealing in this forum, you can see for yourself whether I am legit or not.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: NothinG on March 27, 2012, 03:56:12 PM
Quite bad, considering you didn't calculate for difficulty increases properly and also didn't account for the 25 BTC/block change in early december 2012.

After all, you're betting against(!) Moore's law, miner expansion, the 25 BTC/block "crash" and global hash rate. Anything more than 10-15 Bitcents per MH/s is quite insane in my opinion as a buyer.

I have made it through the price of BTC being $2 and we will make it through the halving of the block reward. The equipment this contract will run on is some of the best designed in our industry thus far.

As for the price, Meni's bond is currently trading at 1.75 BTC for 5Mh/s. So 1 BTC for a similar bond it quite a deal.
5Mh/s @ 1 BTC (Current difficulty with 50 BTC/block) would roughly take 300days to earn back and finally make profits.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: Vbs on March 27, 2012, 04:56:03 PM
It is VERY easy to go Ponzi on things like this otherwise, I would NEVER invest even a single bitcent unless I have very good proof (even pictures can be made elsewhere...) that the issuer really has this hash rate at hand.

Then don't. :)


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: NothinG on March 27, 2012, 05:23:11 PM
It is VERY easy to go Ponzi on things like this otherwise, I would NEVER invest even a single bitcent unless I have very good proof (even pictures can be made elsewhere...) that the issuer really has this hash rate at hand.

Then don't. :)
There are the 9GH/s just in his BFL Singles.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: jamesg on March 27, 2012, 05:30:03 PM
There are the 9GH/s just in his BFL Singles.

Thanks NothinG. Here is the GPU farm when I won the "Rig builder of the year" award.

Everything is a small room in the warehouse now with 3 tons of HVAC cooling it off. If we deem it necessary to see more pictures, I can snap some with the phone.



Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: mcorlett on March 27, 2012, 05:39:31 PM
Also (as with Meni's same bond) I'd like to have the operator verify his hash rate by: Mining on P2Pool/solo/Eligius for at least 1 week continuously to a single BTC address and then signing a message with the key of this address as proof he is in possession of that hashing power.
As a client of gigavps', I can attest to him currently having control over at least 9.5 GH/s of mining power.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: Sukrim on March 27, 2012, 11:03:57 PM
5Mh/s @ 1 BTC (Current difficulty with 50 BTC/block) would roughly take 300days to earn back and finally make profits.
The current difficulty will double in less than 300 days just because the block reward halves + it is likely that it grows naturally as well. Even if the Bitcoin net hash rate just follows Moore's law, we'd expect a doubling in hashrates every 18 months.

You're essentially betting that the network will stall for ~1 year or grow considerably slower than right now for ~1 year with this bond.

If you do the calculation again with doubling of hash rates every 18 months and additional doubling every 4 years (= splitting of block rewards) you get an increase of nearly 2% of hash rate per week (~1.763%) or if you want to have bi-weekly difficulty increases ~3.5% increase of hash rate every 2 weeks. Factor this in your equation and then the ~4.7 bitcents per 2 weeks you'd get at current difficulty (that will soon be over btw. and be even higher in May) about 1.38 BTC _ever_ from this contract.
If you take the difficulty in 200 blocks, you only get a little bit less than 1.3 BTC ever and after one year a bit less than 79 bitcents (after 2 years still not even 1.1 BTC).

Yes, it will not always grow exponentially etc. etc. - still it might be a wise thing to do (especially on such a longterm investment - in bitcoin mining relations even 3 months are kinda long term!) more calculations like mine if someone should think about buying in. Also one could just speculate on earning money by trading just the contracts of course.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: jamesg on March 27, 2012, 11:21:17 PM
The current difficulty will double in less than 300 days just because the block reward halves + it is likely that it grows naturally as well. Even if the Bitcoin net hash rate just follows Moore's law, we'd expect a doubling in hashrates every 18 months.

You're essentially betting that the network will stall for ~1 year or grow considerably slower than right now for ~1 year with this bond.

If you do the calculation again with doubling of hash rates every 18 months and additional doubling every 4 years (= splitting of block rewards) you get an increase of nearly 2% of hash rate per week (~1.763%) or if you want to have bi-weekly difficulty increases ~3.5% increase of hash rate every 2 weeks. Factor this in your equation and then the ~4.7 bitcents per 2 weeks you'd get at current difficulty (that will soon be over btw. and be even higher in May) about 1.38 BTC _ever_ from this contract.
If you take the difficulty in 200 blocks, you only get a little bit less than 1.3 BTC ever and after one year a bit less than 79 bitcents (after 2 years still not even 1.1 BTC).

Yes, it will not always grow exponentially etc. etc. - still it might be a wise thing to do (especially on such a longterm investment - in bitcoin mining relations even 3 months are kinda long term!) more calculations like mine if someone should think about buying in. Also one could just speculate on earning money by trading just the contracts of course.

I appreciate your feedback. Unfortunately (and you mentioned this) the network is not just going to keep growing and an ever increasing rate. There are competing forces at work including more efficient equipment, miners profit margins and the general mood of miners in the community.

When the block reward halves, a good deal of GPU miners will become unprofitable and will stop mining. It is of course a possibility that the price rises sufficiently to keep miners profitable, but I would give this a 5% chance.

A much more likely scenario is that the price bounces in a range where we are now and will stay that way after the subsidy halves.

Please also note that I believe in my point of view enough to pull the trigger on close to 140Gh of mining power.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: silverbox on March 27, 2012, 11:28:45 PM
The current difficulty will double in less than 300 days just because the block reward halves + it is likely that it grows naturally as well. Even if the Bitcoin net hash rate just follows Moore's law, we'd expect a doubling in hashrates every 18 months.

You're essentially betting that the network will stall for ~1 year or grow considerably slower than right now for ~1 year with this bond.

If you do the calculation again with doubling of hash rates every 18 months and additional doubling every 4 years (= splitting of block rewards) you get an increase of nearly 2% of hash rate per week (~1.763%) or if you want to have bi-weekly difficulty increases ~3.5% increase of hash rate every 2 weeks. Factor this in your equation and then the ~4.7 bitcents per 2 weeks you'd get at current difficulty (that will soon be over btw. and be even higher in May) about 1.38 BTC _ever_ from this contract.
If you take the difficulty in 200 blocks, you only get a little bit less than 1.3 BTC ever and after one year a bit less than 79 bitcents (after 2 years still not even 1.1 BTC).

Yes, it will not always grow exponentially etc. etc. - still it might be a wise thing to do (especially on such a longterm investment - in bitcoin mining relations even 3 months are kinda long term!) more calculations like mine if someone should think about buying in. Also one could just speculate on earning money by trading just the contracts of course.

I appreciate your feedback. Unfortunately (and you mentioned this) the network is not just going to keep growing and an ever increasing rate. There are competing forces at work including more efficient equipment, miners profit margins and the general mood of miners in the community.

When the block reward halves, a good deal of GPU miners will become unprofitable and will stop mining. It is of course a possibility that the price rises sufficiently to keep miners profitable, but I would give this a 5% chance.

A much more likely scenario is that the price bounces in a range where we are now and will stay that way after the subsidy halves.

Please also note that I believe in my point of view enough to pull the trigger on close to 140Gh of mining power.

Sukrim's equations seem to neglect the value of transactions, which at present are negligible, but later are likely to be substantial.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: NothinG on March 27, 2012, 11:39:33 PM
I was trying to say at current, it would take ~300 days to earn back.
I know about the half in December, but didn't take it into consideration seeing how it's still more than 6+ months of an investment.

Not bashing on the idea, just 1 BTC per 5Mh/s is kinda harsh. :(


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: rjk on March 28, 2012, 12:06:40 AM
I was trying to say at current, it would take ~300 days to earn back.
I know about the half in December, but didn't take it into consideration seeing how it's still more than 6+ months of an investment.

Not bashing on the idea, just 1 BTC per 5Mh/s is kinda harsh. :(
I don't know about you, but I'll be buying all I can get my hands on if they are that cheap.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: jamesg on March 28, 2012, 12:09:18 AM
I was trying to say at current, it would take ~300 days to earn back.
I know about the half in December, but didn't take it into consideration seeing how it's still more than 6+ months of an investment.

Not bashing on the idea, just 1 BTC per 5Mh/s is kinda harsh. :(
I don't know about you, but I'll be buying all I can get my hands on if they are that cheap.

I think 1 BTC per bond is the sweet spot.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: RoloTonyBrownTown on March 28, 2012, 12:15:16 AM
Hi Giga,

As a fellow BFL supporter, I'll have to give this some serious thought.  It does sound tempting :)

Quick question, where will you be pointing the hashing power (just to get an idea of the PPS value)?    I'd ask you to pool hop but that probably won't go down too well (until the better than average dividends come through obviously :D).


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: jamesg on March 28, 2012, 12:51:02 AM
Quick question, where will you be pointing the hashing power (just to get an idea of the PPS value)?    I'd ask you to pool hop but that probably won't go down too well (until the better than average dividends come through obviously :D).

The bond will pay 100% PPS whether the equipment is down for an entire month or it makes 120% PPS. This is part of the risk that I take on with the bond.

The bond guarantees the holder a set amount of BTC each week. No excuses. This is also why I have decided to have redundant hashing power in case the worst should happen.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: guruvan on March 28, 2012, 01:42:15 AM
Thanks NothinG. Here is the GPU farm when I won the "Rig builder of the year" award.

that's a very nice looking rig. I really like nice neat wiring and construction. It gives me confidence in your skillz :)


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: jamesg on March 28, 2012, 01:49:52 AM
that's a very nice looking rig. I really like nice neat wiring and construction. It gives me confidence in your skillz :)

Thanks guruvan. If I'm going to do something, I try to do it right.

I'll have more pics of the singles once a get the wiring completed for them.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: aseldon on March 28, 2012, 03:36:25 AM
I think this is a great idea and will be buying as many shares as I can afford when you launch it. The main request I would have has nothing to do with the shares or IPO. I want to see more pictures of your setup. Nothing like hardware pr0n to pass the time haha.  ;)


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: jamesg on March 28, 2012, 09:58:29 AM
I think this is a great idea and will be buying as many shares as I can afford when you launch it. The main request I would have has nothing to do with the shares or IPO. I want to see more pictures of your setup. Nothing like hardware pr0n to pass the time haha.  ;)

Noted. I'll take some more pics today and post them to this thread.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: jamesg on March 28, 2012, 11:56:32 AM
So it's a little hard to get a shot of the entire room because it is so small. The room most of the GPUs are in along with the singles is just 9x16 to make the most of the three tons of AC.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-H_VpRbz9XGs/T3L6P7On2XI/AAAAAAAAA28/Mo2j7Fk_cvI/s720/IMG_0226.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ocQApvAupNI/T3L6Onx3yBI/AAAAAAAAA20/vOegge5BNVc/s720/IMG_0227.JPG

Here is a shot through the side door looking that the rack farthest away in the previous picture. You'll notice that the bottom rack is empty. This will be the home of the 4 mini rigs. If they are too big to fit on the rack, I will remove it and they will sit on the floor.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-9baYs6fmbg8/T3L6cPlIW7I/AAAAAAAAA3M/SixhnUWE9xw/s720/IMG_0229.JPG

Here is a pic from outside of the room but still inside the warehouse. You can see the HVAC ducts to push all cooling into the room.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-6B4Hyov1Nr8/T3L6c-m7ZzI/AAAAAAAAA3U/uaXHTFof5Vc/s640/IMG_0230.JPG

Since I only have three tons of AC at the moment, some rigs are still in the warehouse portion. With cgminer, they self regulate to 75c.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-mmgivR-dN40/T3L6dpEkpyI/AAAAAAAAA3c/xVFzX0MFV7s/s640/IMG_0231.JPG


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: aseldon on March 28, 2012, 10:37:01 PM
Thank you for posting those. Wow! 3 tons is a healthy amount of AC. My condo is about 1000 sqft and it gets cold with a 2 ton unit. Those must be some chilly machines. I can't wait to be able to buy into this professional mining operation.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: Kaos on March 29, 2012, 12:00:02 PM
Holy crap! There are the crown jewels!

I'm left kinda envious (in a good way!)


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: jamesg on March 30, 2012, 09:57:51 PM
Holy crap! There are the crown jewels!

I'm left kinda envious (in a good way!)

Thanks Kaos. It's more work that probably any miner would like to admit. :)

So I think the 1 BTC price mark is where it's at. Does anyone have any opinions on when to issue this thing? I was originally thinking of waiting until the equipment arrives, but I would like to get some more feedback.

Best,
gigavps


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: aseldon on March 30, 2012, 10:03:38 PM
I would purchase today if it was available. I know you have quite a lot of mining capacity right now so you may not need to wait for the mini rig to issue some shares.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: JL421 on March 30, 2012, 10:08:27 PM
I would say create all 10,000 shares now but then only sell 5000 shares until more equipment arrives.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: guruvan on March 30, 2012, 11:10:41 PM
I would purchase today if it was available. I know you have quite a lot of mining capacity right now so you may not need to wait for the mini rig to issue some shares.

+1


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: juggalodarkclow on March 31, 2012, 12:12:05 AM
If the price would be set at 1 btc and the bonds are available soon, i'd like to reserve a few


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: Vbs on March 31, 2012, 12:19:43 AM
You should issue them in batches (like 1000-2000 each, for example), and issue them as you feel comfortable you have the leeway to do the weekly payments. Also, give a heads up before you do it (~1 week in advance?), so that investors can prepare. :)

EDIT: You should also check how GLBSE handles issuing shares/bonds in batches... :P
@fees for issuing new shares for existing assets, that would be free of charge
That'd be nice, but probably Nefario's call.
No, mila is correct, there won't be any fees for issuing more shares.

What I will also do, specifically for bonds is allow new sub assets to be created for free (or very little).

So for example, an asset named BOND would be able to create a BOND.12.JAN, then BOND.12.FEB etc.
I'll probably even put a special interface just for bonds.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: xDGDZEx on April 01, 2012, 05:39:51 AM
Keeping my eye on this  :)


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: the joint on April 03, 2012, 08:03:50 PM
Watching...


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: jamesg on April 03, 2012, 08:19:25 PM
So it sounds like everyone wants to get started sooner rather than later.

As for verification of my has rate, I took a screen cap of my farm monitoring webpage. -> http://i.imgur.com/ctnX9.jpg

You'll notice all GPUs are underclocked as it's getting a little hot here in FL.

I guess it's time to talk with Nefario and get my glbse.com account verified.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: roomservice on April 03, 2012, 08:26:14 PM
So it sounds like everyone wants to get started sooner rather than later.

As for verification of my has rate, I took a screen cap of my farm monitoring webpage. -> http://i.imgur.com/ctnX9.jpg

You'll notice all GPUs are underclocked as it's getting a little hot here in FL.

I guess it's time to talk with Nefario and get my glbse.com account verified.

My coins can't wait to roll in!


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: DILLIGAF on April 03, 2012, 09:17:37 PM
So it sounds like everyone wants to get started sooner rather than later.

As for verification of my has rate, I took a screen cap of my farm monitoring webpage. -> http://i.imgur.com/ctnX9.jpg

You'll notice all GPUs are underclocked as it's getting a little hot here in FL.

I guess it's time to talk with Nefario and get my glbse.com account verified.

My coins can't wait to roll in!

The sheeple lining up to be fleeced, it is a beautiful sight..


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: rjk on April 03, 2012, 10:17:12 PM
So it sounds like everyone wants to get started sooner rather than later.

As for verification of my has rate, I took a screen cap of my farm monitoring webpage. -> http://i.imgur.com/ctnX9.jpg

You'll notice all GPUs are underclocked as it's getting a little hot here in FL.

I guess it's time to talk with Nefario and get my glbse.com account verified.

My coins can't wait to roll in!

The sheeple lining up to be fleeced, it is a beautiful sight..
Go back to your cave.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: gnar1ta$ on April 04, 2012, 02:08:18 AM
How do you get $.07 electric in FL?


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: hashking on April 04, 2012, 09:54:18 AM
Hey Giga,  when are your shares coming to market. 


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: jamesg on April 04, 2012, 09:56:52 AM
Hey Giga,  when are your shares coming to market. 

I am going to work on the particulars over the weekend and should have an announcement sometime early next week.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: BinaryMage on April 04, 2012, 11:12:35 PM
Hey Giga,  when are your shares coming to market. 

I am going to work on the particulars over the weekend and should have an announcement sometime early next week.

Excellent, looking forward to it.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: kakobrekla on April 04, 2012, 11:29:00 PM
I'm in.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: jamesg on April 05, 2012, 01:55:44 AM
I'm in.

Thanks kakobrekla.

I will be working over the weekend to tighten up things on glbse.com and getting the release strategy ready. Stay tuned.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: Epoch on April 06, 2012, 02:56:59 AM
The positive response on this thread from everyone but you suggests that you're approaching this from a different angle from everyone else.

Yes I am that angle would be what he is essentially telling you people is this. Give me ~$60,000 I am going to buy 4 machines with that money then dedicate 2 of them to your payback. The other two I get for just being me the wonderful person I am, thank you very much for your donation. Now you if fools want to go for that go right ahead because that is exactly what the proposal is.

Since there are investors itching to lay hands on this offering, why not start a clone of it for yourself? Oh I know why, you don't have shit to back up the bonds if the hardware fails or whatever reason.

I'll take this opportunity to chime in.

First, gigavps is simply offering a service providing a set income (5Mhps @ PPS rate income) in return for certain conditions (~1BTC per 5Mhps). To many here, this looks to be a good offer. To others, not so good. There is no right or wrong here. Everyone's needs are different. For those who don't want the hassle and expense and risk of running their own farm, this may be a good opportunity. For those who don't mind getting their hands dirty, this may not be so attractive. The key point is that this is an OFFER. If you like it, then buy. If not, feel free to consider other options.

Consider a simplistic example: Say a person wanted to purchase the equivalent of 830Mhash (the hashrate of a BFL Single going for $600). That is 166 bonds (830/5 = 166). Let's assume the bonds go for 1BTC, so it would cost 166BTC. Now 166BTC is currently worth ($4.92x166) = $817. That is a $217 premium over the price of a Single, or 36%. So the first question might be: why pay $817 for 830Mhps when I can buy an actual 830Mhps Single for $600? Well ...

What are the running costs of a Single? One would be electricity. Assuming $0.10/kWh, a Single would cost $0.20 per day to run, or $74/year. After 3 years of operation it would have cost $222 to run, equal to the premium gigavps is proposing. And this assumes it does not suffer an out-of-warranty hardware failure during that 3-year period.

So from this it doesn't look like a bad deal. One drawback, however, is that the buyer has no control over where the hashes go. If they owned a physical Single, and mined at GPUMAX (for example), their income might average closer to 1.2x-1.4x PPS. Under this condition, the Gigamining bonds look less attractive.

Obviously, this is an individual decision. Gigavps's offer may look attractive for some, and not so attractive for others. Neither is wrong.

I notice that Inaba is offering something similar on GLBSE (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75433.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75433.0)). Competition is never a bad thing.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: DILLIGAF on April 06, 2012, 07:22:42 AM
The positive response on this thread from everyone but you suggests that you're approaching this from a different angle from everyone else.

Yes I am that angle would be what he is essentially telling you people is this. Give me ~$60,000 I am going to buy 4 machines with that money then dedicate 2 of them to your payback. The other two I get for just being me the wonderful person I am, thank you very much for your donation. Now you if fools want to go for that go right ahead because that is exactly what the proposal is.

Since there are investors itching to lay hands on this offering, why not start a clone of it for yourself? Oh I know why, you don't have shit to back up the bonds if the hardware fails or whatever reason.

I'll take this opportunity to chime in.

First, gigavps is simply offering a service providing a set income (5Mhps @ PPS rate income) in return for certain conditions (~1BTC per 5Mhps). To many here, this looks to be a good offer. To others, not so good. There is no right or wrong here. Everyone's needs are different. For those who don't want the hassle and expense and risk of running their own farm, this may be a good opportunity. For those who don't mind getting their hands dirty, this may not be so attractive. The key point is that this is an OFFER. If you like it, then buy. If not, feel free to consider other options.

Consider a simplistic example: Say a person wanted to purchase the equivalent of 830Mhash (the hashrate of a BFL Single going for $600). That is 166 bonds (830/5 = 166). Let's assume the bonds go for 1BTC, so it would cost 166BTC. Now 166BTC is currently worth ($4.92x166) = $817. That is a $217 premium over the price of a Single, or 36%. So the first question might be: why pay $817 for 830Mhps when I can buy an actual 830Mhps Single for $600? Well ...

What are the running costs of a Single? One would be electricity. Assuming $0.10/kWh, a Single would cost $0.20 per day to run, or $74/year. After 3 years of operation it would have cost $222 to run, equal to the premium gigavps is proposing. And this assumes it does not suffer an out-of-warranty hardware failure during that 3-year period.

So from this it doesn't look like a bad deal. One drawback, however, is that the buyer has no control over where the hashes go. If they owned a physical Single, and mined at GPUMAX (for example), their income might average closer to 1.2x-1.4x PPS. Under this condition, the Gigamining bonds look less attractive.

Obviously, this is an individual decision. Gigavps's offer may look attractive for some, and not so attractive for others. Neither is wrong.

I notice that Inaba is offering something similar on GLBSE (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75433.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75433.0)). Competition is never a bad thing.

And I noticed the substantial difference in the pricing of the offer as well.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: JWU42 on April 06, 2012, 12:08:22 PM
Well - so much for using today to work up my own GLBSE offering -- the space is a tad crowded  ;D


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: jamesg on April 06, 2012, 12:13:24 PM
I notice that Inaba is offering something similar on GLBSE (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75433.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75433.0)). Competition is never a bad thing.

I agree that competition is not a bad thing and I think it's great that Inaba is coming forward with an offering.


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: jamesg on April 07, 2012, 11:58:07 AM
In case anyone was wondering what equipment was going to be used to service this bond, here is the official mockup from BFL.

http://www.butterflylabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/iso-desktop-server.Color-Output1.png


Title: Re: [GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond
Post by: jamesg on April 07, 2012, 01:59:02 PM
New thread for the launch of the bond. -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75802.0