[GLBSE] Feedback wanted: Gigamining, the first 5Mh/s mining bond

[Kaos]

How's my math!??!

I think your math is sound. I do want to make this an attractive offer both for the IPO and for 6 months out. It sounds like we need to be somewhere between 1 BTC and 1.2 BTC. 

Let's put it this way.. I dont want the mess, the noise and the maintenance and it will take me a couple of months to get my BFL single. On the other hand you can start now. The BFL Single was advertised for 600 MH/sec and now it's over 800 MH/sec, I say it can reach to 1Gh/sec by Q3 2012 but that's about it.

If you sell each share (5Mh/sec) for 1BTC today to brake even (ber BFL Single) you will need to actually sell 700Mh/sec on each BFL and use the rest as your pure profit. Assuming that they can push the BFL single to go higher that will give you a nice little bonus by Q1 2013.

Now since you have a mixed rig between GPUs and BFLs you will take a small profit hit (i.e. less margin) on your GPUs. I hope (assume?) that your secret plan is to use that bond money this year to buy more FPGAs and get rid of your GPUs (selling them to recuperate some of the cost) by at least Q2 2013. Which means that by Q2 2013 not only you would have managed to upgrade your farm but you'll have made a good profit at the same time doing it.

So, IPO shares should be at 1BTC (make it lucrative) then let offer and demand take care of the share price. Also I'm in if you can guarantee that there is not time limit on this and if you choose to buy them back you will indeed buy at +5% of whatever is the current share price.

[jamesg]

Let's put it this way.. I dont want the mess, the noise and the maintenance and it will take me a couple of months to get my BFL single. On the other hand you can start now. The BFL Single was advertised for 600 MH/sec and now it's over 800 MH/sec, I say it can reach to 1Gh/sec by Q3 2012 but that's about it.

If you sell each share (5Mh/sec) for 1BTC today to brake even (ber BFL Single) you will need to actually sell 700Mh/sec on each BFL and use the rest as your pure profit. Assuming that they can push the BFL single to go higher that will give you a nice little bonus by Q1 2013.

Now since you have a mixed rig between GPUs and BFLs you will take a small profit hit (i.e. less margin) on your GPUs. I hope (assume?) that your secret plan is to use that bond money this year to buy more FPGAs and get rid of your GPUs (selling them to recuperate some of the cost) by at least Q2 2013. Which means that by Q2 2013 not only you would have managed to upgrade your farm but you'll have made a good profit at the same time doing it.

So, IPO shares should be at 1BTC (make it lucrative) then let offer and demand take care of the share price. Also I'm in if you can guarantee that there is not time limit on this and if you choose to buy them back you will indeed buy at +5% of whatever is the current share price.

The bond would actually be fulfilled with 2 BFL mini rigs. I have already purchased 4 of them.

Each mini rig is spec'd at 25.1Gh with a power draw of 1.25Kw per hour.

I pay $0.0714 per Kw/h.

Since you seem to like doing the math, I'll let you take it from here.

[JusticeForYou]

Best Coupon Bond offering I've seen on the forum.

All the information laid out for others to 'do the math'?


btw:

Q: Who's the hottie in your profile pic?
A: That's my wife. 

Dude, your wife is bald.

[Kaos]

Ha! At this stage I need a spreadsheet but yea I can see that this could be a good deal for both parties.

I'm interested to see how this would compare with GPUMAX (don't have an invite thus can't compare or comment) or BTCSYN if/when they add their Icarus boards and start paying dividends (they've been delivered for a couple of weeks now and I assume they're working hard to set them up and integrate them to their P2Pool, so everything is up in the air still and I can see their share loosing ground if they can't deliver by mid-May).  


I can tell you one thing. Q3-Q4 2012 are going to be a very very fun periods. As we've reached the end of Q1, we can see clearly that FPGAs alone have proven to be quite a disruptive technology and this is only the beginning. Icarus is dead as a project and everyone is contemplating wether they should keep their money and wait for Lancelot or buy a BFL which have slowly started to get delviered and also Nanominer is coming along.

Since you have two BFL mini-rigs plus two more coming along (grats! you can be quite an interesting option for people who want "in" but don't want to either to wait months for delivery of a BFL; wait for Lancelot or any other up-and-coming FPGA project and definitely (like me) aint going to spend a penny with GPUs.

Let's see how Gigamining will develop.

[DILLIGAF]

I hope (assume?) that your secret plan is to use that bond money this year to buy more FPGAs and get rid of your GPUs (selling them to recuperate some of the cost) by at least Q2 2013. Which means that by Q2 2013 not only you would have managed to upgrade your farm but you'll have made a good profit at the same time doing it.

The plan as you can see below with his reply is to get two free/near free mini-rigs by selling off the bonds, the BTC from that sale should pretty much cover all of the rigs.

The bond would actually be fulfilled with 2 BFL mini rigs. I have already purchased 4 of them.

Each mini rig is spec'd at 25.1Gh with a power draw of 1.25Kw per hour.

I pay $0.0714 per Kw/h.

Since you seem to like doing the math, I'll let you take it from here.

[JWU42]

Hey - it is always best to play with OPM...

Bets Best of luck gigavps - I love your entrepreneurial spirit!

[jamesg]

The plan as you can see below with his reply is to get two free/near free mini-rigs by selling off the bonds, the BTC from that sale should pretty much cover all of the rigs.

Hi DILLIGAF,

Thank you for your feedback. I would like to make a couple points.

1. I have taken on all the risk of purchasing this equipment, up front, when everybody on the forums were claiming that BFL was a scam.
2. This equipment will be profitable for the foreseeable future whether I do the bond or not.
3. I see this as an opportunity to allow others to mine without all of the pain / headaches / etc. that comes with building a mining farm.
4. You are correct, I am also trying to make a profit.

Ultimately, I am here to try and provide the best value to date for a venture of this type.

Best,
gigavps

[Kaos]

I hope (assume?) that your secret plan is to use that bond money this year to buy more FPGAs and get rid of your GPUs (selling them to recuperate some of the cost) by at least Q2 2013. Which means that by Q2 2013 not only you would have managed to upgrade your farm but you'll have made a good profit at the same time doing it.

The plan as you can see below with his reply is to get two free/near free mini-rigs by selling off the bonds, the BTC from that sale should pretty much cover all of the rigs.

The bond would actually be fulfilled with 2 BFL mini rigs. I have already purchased 4 of them.

Each mini rig is spec'd at 25.1Gh with a power draw of 1.25Kw per hour.

I pay $0.0714 per Kw/h.

Since you seem to like doing the math, I'll let you take it from here.

And there's nothing wrong with that. The way I see it, he has a great reputation and if he makes a great offer then it's a win/win for everyone and thus these shares are going to fly off the shelves like hot BTC cupcakes.

[jamesg]

The way I see it, he has a great reputation and if he makes a great offer then it's a win/win for everyone and thus these shares are going to fly off the shelves like hot BTC cupcakes.

Hi Kaos,

Thank you for your input and feedback. I truly appreciate your kind words and am eager to provide the win/win scenario you describe.

Best,
gigavps

I am also eager to hear others feedback so don't be shy!

[DILLIGAF]

The plan as you can see below with his reply is to get two free/near free mini-rigs by selling off the bonds, the BTC from that sale should pretty much cover all of the rigs.

Hi DILLIGAF,

Thank you for your feedback. I would like to make a couple points.

1. I have taken on all the risk of purchasing this equipment, up front, when everybody on the forums were claiming that BFL was a scam.

Nobody claims they are scam now especially you as you have many of the singles according to you that were in your possession before the mini-rig was even announced let alone available for purchase and you are transferring 100% of the risk onto the bond holders with this idea.

2. This equipment will be profitable for the foreseeable future whether I do the bond or not.

Can be depending on the diff/exchange rate.

3. I see this as an opportunity to allow others to mine without all of the pain / headaches / etc. that comes with building a mining farm.

Not much of a hassle with them things plug cable into computer plug into wall turn it on fire up mining program and go.

4. You are correct, I am also trying to make a profit.

Yes nice healthy free 50gh/s.

Ultimately, I am here to try and provide the best value to date for a venture of this type.

Best,
gigavps

Well these mining companies I see on here offering up this type of deal include all equipment purchased with the funds that were raised along with all the BTC produced by that equipment less their overhead, this endeavor gives you a quick profit while taking away all your risk of purchase by not doing all of the equipment and the excess BTC that will be mined in the deal.

[jamesg]

Nobody claims they are scam now especially you as you have many of the singles according to you that were in your possession before the mini-rig was even announced let alone available for purchase and you are transferring 100% of the risk onto the bond holders with this idea.

You are correct. I was just informed that I will be receiving 4 mini rigs instead of the two rig boxes that I originally purchased. I did however, put up the money for these rigs well before I received all of my singles.

Not much of a hassle with them things plug cable into computer plug into wall turn it on fire up mining program and go.

You are also correct. The only hassles are a) getting the funds together, b) sitting on your hands for three months until the equipment arrives and c) dealing with the heat 60 singles would generate.

If you feel that I am not providing enough value, please make a recommendation. I would much rather discussion solutions to the problems you see than to try and rebut the same arguments over again.

[DILLIGAF]

Nobody claims they are scam now especially you as you have many of the singles according to you that were in your possession before the mini-rig was even announced let alone available for purchase and you are transferring 100% of the risk onto the bond holders with this idea.

You are correct. I was just informed that I will be receiving 4 mini rigs instead of the two rig boxes that I originally purchased. I did however, put up the money for these rigs well before I received all of my singles.

I see the word all there qualifying the risk you had taken by implying reception of some of them before that purchase.

Not much of a hassle with them things plug cable into computer plug into wall turn it on fire up mining program and go.

You are also correct. The only hassles are a) getting the funds together, b) sitting on your hands for three months until the equipment arrives and c) dealing with the heat 60 singles would generate.

If you feel that I am not providing enough value, please make a recommendation. I would much rather discussion solutions to the problems you see than to try and rebut the same arguments over again.

You could start by doing as all the other companies have done namely include everything that the BTC invested has bought as I have pointed out already this deal gives you ~$30,000 profit off the hop plus all the BTC that will ever be produced by those two extra boxes you get to make out of it. Now that people know that this is the idea you could state this in your terms of offering if they buy still knowing this is the case you have been honest and upfront with them so there would be no basis for any more discussion on this aspect of the deal. If people want to give you ~$30,000 bonus plus BTC produced off that bonus equipment for having bought said equipment more power to them.

[jamesg]

You could start by doing as all the other companies have done namely include everything that the BTC invested has bought as I have pointed out already this deal gives you ~$30,000 profit off the hop plus all the BTC that will ever be produced by those two extra boxes you get to make out of it.

DILLIGAF, the only investment that has been made thus far is by me. There is no bond yet and no initial sale.

This is not an IPO where you own a share of a company. This is a bond coupon that guarantees to pay 100% PPS at 5Mh/s per coupon. Every other investment vehicle like this thus far has similar profit margins, just not at scale.

Are you saying that it is wrong for me scale up the same business model already proven by others on the glbse?

Now that people know that this is the idea you could state this in your terms of offering if they buy still knowing this is the case you have been honest and upfront with them so there would be no basis for any more discussion on this aspect of the deal. If people want to give you ~$30,000 bonus plus BTC produced off that bonus equipment for having bought said equipment more power to them.

I see no hardware listing here -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=65569.0

Only a contract to pay PPS of 1Mh/s to each coupon holder.

If you feel I have been misleading in someway, then you do not need to participate. If you can get a better deal, then I would recommend you setup your own mining company.

I am asking for pricing feedback from the community in the thread. If you think the price should be different from what I have suggested, please say so.

[Vbs]

Great idea man, running quick estimations, 1BTC for 5MH/s seems a great price, I'll be sure to join!

[DILLIGAF]

You could start by doing as all the other companies have done namely include everything that the BTC invested has bought as I have pointed out already this deal gives you ~$30,000 profit off the hop plus all the BTC that will ever be produced by those two extra boxes you get to make out of it.

DILLIGAF, the only investment that has been made thus far is by me. There is no bond yet and no initial sale.

This is not an IPO where you own a share of a company. This is a bond coupon that guarantees to pay 100% PPS at 5Mh/s per coupon. Every other investment vehicle like this thus far has similar profit margins, just not at scale.

Are you saying that it is wrong for me scale up the same business model already proven by others on the glbse?

Now that people know that this is the idea you could state this in your terms of offering if they buy still knowing this is the case you have been honest and upfront with them so there would be no basis for any more discussion on this aspect of the deal. If people want to give you ~$30,000 bonus plus BTC produced off that bonus equipment for having bought said equipment more power to them.

I see no hardware listing here -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=65569.0

Only a contract to pay PPS of 1Mh/s to each coupon holder.

If you feel I have been misleading in someway, then you do not need to participate. If you can get a better deal, then I would recommend you setup your own mining company.

I am asking for pricing feedback from the community in the thread. If you think the price should be different from what I have suggested, please say so.

Well you can chop it in half to reflect the fact that those 50gh/s you are bonding is actually included in that bond not the full purchase price of the 100gh/s you are getting for those BTC you raise with this. Oh and the hardware mentioned that you intend to use for this bond is here.

The bond would actually be fulfilled with 2 BFL mini rigs. I have already purchased 4 of them.

Each mini rig is spec'd at 25.1Gh with a power draw of 1.25Kw per hour.

I pay $0.0714 per Kw/h.

Since you seem to like doing the math, I'll let you take it from here.

[copumpkin]

Nobody claims they are scam now especially you as you have many of the singles according to you that were in your possession before the mini-rig was even announced let alone available for purchase and you are transferring 100% of the risk onto the bond holders with this idea.

You are correct. I was just informed that I will be receiving 4 mini rigs instead of the two rig boxes that I originally purchased. I did however, put up the money for these rigs well before I received all of my singles.

I see the word all there qualifying the risk you had taken by implying reception of some of them before that purchase.

Not much of a hassle with them things plug cable into computer plug into wall turn it on fire up mining program and go.

You are also correct. The only hassles are a) getting the funds together, b) sitting on your hands for three months until the equipment arrives and c) dealing with the heat 60 singles would generate.

If you feel that I am not providing enough value, please make a recommendation. I would much rather discussion solutions to the problems you see than to try and rebut the same arguments over again.

You could start by doing as all the other companies have done namely include everything that the BTC invested has bought as I have pointed out already this deal gives you ~$30,000 profit off the hop plus all the BTC that will ever be produced by those two extra boxes you get to make out of it. Now that people know that this is the idea you could state this in your terms of offering if they buy still knowing this is the case you have been honest and upfront with them so there would be no basis for any more discussion on this aspect of the deal. If people want to give you ~$30,000 bonus plus BTC produced off that bonus equipment for having bought said equipment more power to them.

Why are you so confrontational about this? He's not scamming people, he's not ripping people off, and he's offering a contract priced on par with similar ones. He's invested many many tens of thousands of dollars into his mining infrastructure and has the experience and skill to manage it, and he doesn't work for free. He has to keep paying the electric bills for these things forever, and the hashing isn't tied to a particular rig, so if one of the BFL miners dies or doesn't work for whatever reason, he still owes people 50ghash/s forever (unless he buys it back, in which case he still makes a loss). There's certainly risk in it for him, and risk carries a premium.

He started the thread as a question about what a good price for this type of contract would be. He suggested a price to get the conversation going, and if you don't like it, why not suggest one you think is more appropriate and why you think so. It's generally more productive to be respectful instead of confrontational.

[copumpkin]

Well you can chop it in half to reflect the fact that those 50gh/s you are bonding is actually included in that bond not the full purchase price of the 100gh/s you are getting for those BTC you raise with this.

That analysis is too simplistic. Can you do some real math and come back with a more reasonable suggestion?

[jamesg]

Well you can chop it in half to reflect the fact that those 50gh/s you are bonding is actually included in that bond not the full purchase price of the 100gh/s you are getting for those BTC you raise with this. Oh and the hardware mentioned that you intend to use for this bond is here.

I have decided to disclose all of my hashing power so that investors can know that I am capable of fulfilling the bond payments even if equipment was to fail. It also states in bold that the 10k coupons equate to 50Gh.

[Vbs]

Will you wait for the Mini-rigs for the IPO, or are you thinking on making it sooner?

[jamesg]

Will you wait for the Mini-rigs for the IPO, or are you thinking on making it sooner?

I was originally planning to wait until they arrived.

If the community would like the initial offering to happen sooner, I would definitely be willing to consider it.

I will update the OP with this.