Bitcoin Forum

From what I read....

Use Apple iOS8 and Apple can't even access your phone even if they wanted to.  (Yes, you'll pay more up front and have a less customizable phone)

Use the free Android operating system and Google has freedom to collect all your data and sell to the highest bidder.

In addition it appears Apple Pay stores credit card numbers locally that are encrypted and unencrypted each time for each purchase, and when a purchase is made a one time payment approval code is used so that the place you are shopping won't know your name, credit card info, or other information.

I know there are lots of fan boys and haters out there. What do you all think? I know for me personally these new develooments in iOS8 came as a big surprise.

http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_268789/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=MLzFmXy6

In an ultimate scenario of anonymity, I can imagine some combination of a Coinbase/Bitpay -> Apple Pay combination.  Some kind of merger of bitcoin and Apple Pay is inevitable I think.   

Rule number one in dealing with Apple: Never buy Version One of anything. Remember Apple Maps and how everybody was hacking the first version of the iPad, guys?

Well, if it is true, that's great. But can we be sure it is true?

The only way to know for sure is if it was open source.

That is a good point.  The first generation is often is hyped high and delivers so-so.  This very well could be the case for Apple Pay too.  

With the iPad they were creating a whole new category of electronics.  It's understandable it would go wrong.  The maps was a huge blunder that could have been easily avoided if handled properly.  

Many people were afraid of the finger print scanner, but as far as I know, it went over pretty well because finger print hardware and software had been around for a long time.  

I am not sure where Apple Pay might fall into this, nor Apple's new found vested interest in protecting the consumer's privacy.  (We know that part of this came about because of the recent iCloud hacking)

Hahaha.  That is a very good point. 

So.... now we have

Android which is open source and because it is we know we are getting summarized, packaged, and sold.

iOS8 which claims to protect us but there is no way to know because it isn't open source. 

Really neither is a great option. 

well, I guess we will find out soon enough. :o :P

it only stops them from unlocking the physical phone itself without the passcode from the user. BUT

BUT

any backups stored on its icloud service can and will be given to police if they produce a warrent. and data on the icloud is NOT encrypted using the users passcode.

enjoy

@Franky1  I thought the same thing.  Any iCloud back up is easily accessible by Apple.  For many people that includes basically a copy of their whole phone.  It seems like to me the best solution would be as soon as a person buys a new phone to turn off all iCloud services for anything you wouldn't want the entire world to know (as far as I know a person can pick which apps and which services iCloud can access.)  If a person still wants to back up their phone, they can do it on their home computer.  If they feel like they have especially private information, they can encrypt those back ups.  

im not to worried about apple. but i am more worried about samsung and android.. seeing as samsung sell tanks, surveillance tools to governments
http://www.samsungtechwin.com/product/product_05_01_01.asp

and google sell technology to aid government data-mining
phone surveillance: (voice-to-text)
keyword search: (optimised search engine bots)
data collection: (optimised data compression/storage)

should never even consider storing it on a phone

Forgetting about a little something called GPS? Apple require that information to feed updates.

somtimes they rush to launch new service or products having some flaws. in case it happen, we'd better wait the second version.

Anytime you use any electronic device that is connected to the internet or a cell phone tower at any time ever, operate with the assumption that anything on the device is no longer private.

And how glad are we {BTC users} that none of our information are saved on any other central parties server.  ;D

It feels good to have total control of your own destiny. Apple can go suck my bitcoin, they spending millions on keeping other people's money "safe" and then someone hack into the server, or hijack the users pc, and it's game over!

I want to see, how they get to my cold storage.  ;D ;D

says the guy advertising cloud mining :D

.. sorry nothing personal, just had to be pointed out for laughters sake

How are me advertizing "mining" influencing this matter?

I still have control over my bitcoins, when it's moved in increments from these operations. None of my sensitive information is stored on their servers. {Other than my public key, which is posted everywhere anyways}

I do not convert into fiat, so none of my personal information are compromised.

Apple have to store "personal" information, that can be used to "withdraw" money, if it's compromised. If my mining operation is compromised, they get a public address, which they can do nothing with.

Wost case scenario, they hack into my "mining" account, and they cannot get past the 2FA and if they do, they get a few satoshi's, not all my credit on my credit card or my money saved in my saving accounts.

So the damage is insignificant in comparison, to what can be done, if they compromise Apple.

i wasnt knit picking the personal info side.. i was knitpicking the trust of cloud services. and the fact that u advertise cloud services lol (bad joke i know)

but your income is not decentralised (not having miners in your own warehouse/home..) its online. and so is this forum. so your reliance (although not having private data) on third party remote services, remains high.

Ah, getting your point.  ;)

Agreed, being online, compromise more info, than we want to anyways. {Location/OS used/Language spoken and whatever you reveal, without knowing it}

So we f^&*ed the big brother is watching us, everywhere we go.  ???

Ok.. back to my whine....

we been fucked since the 1960's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON

I think it was when first man stand on earth.

About collecting informactions, every big corporation do it.

Two companies I'd never trust: Microsoft and Apple
They can say whatever they want, I don't believe a single word, especially if it's about privacy and security. Fuck them.

If apple were to make it's IOS8 operating system open source then people would steal it. Open source is really only appropriate when the author is comfortable with others using their product without payment, and apple does not fall into this category.

I would personally trust apple enough to believe their statements. Also you could also delay trusting what they say for 6+ months to see if news reports start to come out saying that the police were able to access suspects' phones without a password

Trust Apple?  You have to be kidding. John Gilmore explains this nicely:

http://boingboing.net/2014/09/20/reasons-not-to-trust-apple.html (http://boingboing.net/2014/09/20/reasons-not-to-trust-apple.html)

Microsoft is fighting a request from the US government to search user records that are stored in overseas servers in court. They may or may not win but they are at least trying.

Both MSFT and AAPL have limits as to what they are able to do in terms of privacy of information stored on their own servers because the courts are able to force them to comply with search warrants

That's what I also would say if I got criticized all the time and afraid that I have to fear to lose market shares, especially in the booming cloud market.
I know they are limited but I also don't think they are actually interested. With lobbying and threat to move to another country they could put enough pressure on the government to stop that. If they want...

Microsoft is not just saying they are fighting it, they are actually fighting the search request. The search in question is also not regarding anything to do with the cloud, it is regarding the search of an email account.

Rule one with apple: never buy anything apple until they stop being such nazi's with BTC ;D

Apple allows bitcoin apps, just the same as Android. I have a Blockchain app on my phone right now.  There might be many reasons to not like Apple, but that reason is 6 months out dated. 

Explain?

He doesn't use even one fact to explain anything.  It is mostly just paranoid hypotheticals.  I will grant him though, that Apple is not perfect and will probably slip on one or more of the points.  I imagine then after it is caught, it will be corrected.  To do anything otherwise would be blatant misdirection and would seriously harm Apple's reputation.  Apple definitely plays games, but not that kind. 

They are allowing companies to have bitcoin wallet apps in the app store again. They never restricted any bitcoin news or bitcoin price tracking, or store that accepts bitcoin locator apps in their app store.

I agree. Apple is generally very good at keeping their word. If they say something I would trust they are telling the truth. If they are caught in a lie then their reputation would be severely damaged. Their reputation is one of their biggest assets

How about Google ?
Each of us know that they are collecting informations.

I don't think anonymity is the correct adjective to use, I think it would be more appropriate to say they are trying to protect users privacy. If they were trying to protect their user's anonymity then they would be implementing features that would prevent others from knowing what number they are calling from, what number they are calling or their physical location (to mask all of these things, even to the phone company)

That is very good point.  I think "privacy" much better fits what is going on here. I think the OP got it wrong.  Hahaha

Apple and privacy?

Wonder if these folks will be using Apple Pay any time soon; Ali Michael, Ariana Grande, Bar Rafaeli, Becca Tobin, Brie Larson, Hope Solo, Jennifer Lawrence, Jessica Brown Findlay, Kate Upton, Kirsten Dunst, Krysten Ritter, Lea Michele, Mary Elizabeth Winstead, Mckayla Maroney, Melissa Benoist, Olivia Munn, Selena Gomez, Teresa Palmer, Victoria Justice, Yvonne Strahovski, and so on, and so forth.

I, for one have quite enjoyed their version of privacy over the past few weeks. Probably wouldn't trust them with my money though.  :D

Don't forget Emma Watson, it's comming soon.
Also, im pretty sure iWatch will see a quick improved version fixing "bugs" just like every other first version apple product ever.

I agree.  The iWatch might be a risky endeavor.  I am sure most people will be okay, but not everyone all the time.

Your money is protected if you pay for something via apple pay as you are not liable for unauthorized purchases to your credit card and apple pay uses your credit card.

The reason the celebs had their pictures stolen was because there was a security "flaw" in iCloud, it technically did not have anything to do with their iPhones.

LOL... Celebrities protected their anonymity more than any of us.. Look what happened, The gappening happened.

*The Fappening. :)

Privacy =/= anonymity. The features you described may protect your privacy to a certain level, but have nothing to do with anonymity.


Apple's reputation wouldn't be damaged one lick if all their recent privacy advancements were 100% BS. You're forgetting that the average Apple customer is a 15 year old girl, not a bunch of geeky "crypto-anarchists" like you'll find on this forum. Until the Apple fad dies, they'll be very popular, regardless of what they do to their reputation among people in the know.

Maybe try to visit an Apple store, or at least google "Apple Store" and scroll down past the official pics to just regular pics of regular stores on regular days.  Not a lot of 15 year old girls. 

http://www.lmmiller.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/apple-store-pacific-centre-701-west-georgie-st-vancouver-bc-07.jpg

Roughly 90% of girls 13-25 in my area have Apple everything - iPhone, MacBook, etc. Maybe 20-25% of guys I know locally who are "in the know" use Macs. Your picture of some low grossing doesn't Vancouver store explain anything. For all we know, that was shot during school hours. That's also about a 10-customer sample size, so it's not relevant anyway.

99% of Apple's customer base does not give two shits about privacy, regardless of their specific demographic. You may counter by saying, "Plenty of people care about privacy!", but it doesn't matter. Even if they feign a concern, they still don't even understand what privacy is (it's anonymity! Wrong.) and don't actually care, as long as they have the sleekest looking phone/tablet/laptop.

What data are you referring to? Don't see any other valuable stuff than GMAIL.

I don't think you are correct regarding the average apple customer. Apple products are very expensive and the income level of apple customer is higher then the national average. Apple is also expanding into other "sub markets" with their iPhones (for example corporate customers) so their retail customers matter less to them.

I disagree. I think there are plenty of people that care about and wish for privacy. They may demand it in the same way that your typical bitcoin user will (nor will they go to the same lengths to achieve privacy/anonymity) however all else being equal they will choose privacy over not having privacy. Take for example the percentage of people who use a PIN/password on their phone, it is almost everyone, the purpose of this is to prevent random people from snooping around their phone in the event they 'find' it

If Apple's goal is truly anonymity then they should definitely look into Bitcoin integration.

Google collects what you search for (aka your search history). They also offer products like google drive and google docs that store your documents for you. They also could use google maps to track the places that you go if you also use your android cell phone as a gps

Google defends itself and says it is better than Apple. 

http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2014/10/03/qmb-romans-intv-rosenberg-schmidt-google-security.cnn.html (http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2014/10/03/qmb-romans-intv-rosenberg-schmidt-google-security.cnn.html)

Of course, but what does that have to do with Apple customers actually caring about privacy?

It's a common fallacy to think everyone else is just like you and shares similar priorities, because you hang out with people all day who share certain knowledge and priorities. The knowledge of an average forum member here about Internet privacy is multitudes greater than what you'll see out in real life. People are clueless - they really are.


Actually, it's probably more like 50% or less (http://www.darkreading.com/risk-management/most-consumers-dont-lock-mobile-phone-via-pin/d/d-id/1100508?).

The pin is likely so someone who finds it can't look at all their nudes that they store on the notably secure iCloud.

If you use iCloud, the closed-source encryption is essentially worthless.

It is.. It is better than apple.. Google gives you everything internet has to offer with very simple yet helpful design.

Im all for Google. :)