Bitcoin Forum

I have been trying for nearly 3 weeks to release over $26,000 from MTGox.  Through miriad delays, lies and false promises, I am still unable to withdraw any USD from MTGox.  I believe, though I have not tested, that I may be able to transfer the funds out via Bitcoins, but it would come at a cost of conversion.  Which I have already paid twice in the past three weeks trying to get funds out.

At this point, I am absolutely sick and tired of the lying and BS that comes out of MTGox.  Nothing honest is ever released on their blog, it's always missing important facts or contains outright falsehoods.  Their customer service is a joke (I know, surprise!), and every time I contact them, they take days to get back to me... when they do it does not address the issue, but points to useless blog posts or gives excuses for actions taken or not taken.

After finally getting them to cancel the Dwolla withdrawals they had "pending" for over a week, they canceled just one of them, letting another $10,000 hang in limbo until I contacted them again.  I requested that they do a wire transfer of the funds to my bank and that I would pay the fee on my side, even though they should cover all fees for holding on to my money for a week with no compensation or reasonable explanation.  I got no response to this request, not even a denial.  

I then  converted the USD to bitcoins and sucked up the "fee" MtGox charges for the privilege of keeping my money indefinitely.  After trying to find a suitable way to transfer the BTC out and convert it into fiat, it became clear that the charges to do so would be exorbitant, as all the exchange services are not setup to convert large amounts of BTC to fiat and their fee structure makes it impractical.

So, I went ahead, last night, and sucked up the exchange rate and lost several hundred dollars as well as the "fee" MtGox charges, again, and converted back to USD.  I tried to initiate a wire transfer and lo-and-behold... MtGox no longer offers wire transfers.*  Only Dwolla and OKPay.  So now MTGox is offering a service to replace a wire transfer with Dwolla, which they can't seem to transfer even a nickle to, much less $26000.  So now I have basically no way to transfer money out of MTGox, other than as, possibly, Bitcoins. To add insult to this injury, even "adding" a Dwolla account, which I have been using for months and month, goes into "Validation" status and will not, apparently, come out.  As such, I can't even attempt a Dwolla transfer.  

So now, they basically have had free use of my funds for nearly 3 weeks, with no compensation, besides the lies and delay tactics I've received so far and have eliminated that last possible method for me to get USD out of MTGox.  

It's almost laughable how poorly managed MTGox is, or it would be if it were not for the fact that they are holding millions of dollars of users funds without any recourse.  Unless these concerns are addressed and some reasonable explanation is offered, I will be moving all of my operations to another exchange.  Yes, I realize I am a small fish in a large pond, but I am also suggesting that everyone else do the same.  MTGox can not be trusted with your data, as they have shown through being hacked via methods that were detailed to them long before the hack took place.  They are clearly showing that they can't be trusted with your funds, either, since they will not release funds in any usable manner (with the possible exception of BTC).  

* EDIT - MTGox still offers wire transfers, it's just now called "Withdrawal Wizard"

Inaba, do you care to publicly disclose the source of this 26,000$ USD that you have managed to acquire in bitcoin?

Let us know what exchange you end up choosing and why.  I haven't had much trouble with Mt Gox (besides Dwolla withdrawals being delayed, though mine eventually came through), but the growing number of complaints against Mt Gox has me a bit worried... would like to check out other options.

I don't even use Gox, and reading this pissed me off entirely.  I'm considering starting a petition thread to boycott Gox unless they bite the bullet and hire a competent customer service team that is available 24/7.

Fuck you, Gox.  And fuck you, Karpeles, with your ugly face.  Take the mask off your operations and put it on that honkin' beezer.

Yeah i'd like to see what comes of this too Inaba.. if you find a good way please share

From Withdraw Funds page (in my case):
BTC : You can still withdraw up to 400.00000000 BTC provided you have enough on your account (your limit is 400.00000000 BTC per 24 hours )
USD : You can still withdraw up to $1,000.00000 provided you have enough on your account (your limit is $1,000.00000 per 24 hours and $10,000.00000 per 30 days)

Also when you click "Add withdraw method" button there is still an option to add international wire details, the video in following link explains it well https://mtgox.com/press_release_20120418.html
Not sure how wire withdraw option is not available to you though

(mostly to watch thread, but...)

Why the fuck should he?  It's not a huge amount of money, he's been around a while and a cursory glance shows that he's had some interest in mining.  One of the niceties of Bitcoin is that you don't have to document every financial action for a gaggle of nosy jerk-offs.  Or one would hope it is that way.

LOL, LMAO... LOL

Like tvb suggested, I would guess Bitcoin mining.  He's a big-time miner.

This is my "Add Withdrawal Method" link:

http://communityhosting.net/ih/images/goxwithdra.png

The more I think about this, the more it pisses me off.  It took me 3 days to initiate the transfers due to the 10,000 daily limit. They held on to the money for a week, then finally refunded it, now if I could even get the money out, I'd have to wait another 3 days to withdraw it.  My "Dwolla" is till "validating" BTW.  I mean, I've only done twenty or thirty successful Dwolla withdrawals in the past 6 or 7 months, you'd think it could be "validated" by now.

I didn't ask you to disclose your assumptions. I asked Inaba to disclose the source of this income.

Inaba doesn't seem to be interested in discussing it.

Why should the bitcoin community consider his whining if he doesn't want to discuss this issue in an objective manner?

Why does it matter where he got his $26k?  I find it to be completely irrelevant to the situation at hand.

I am considering it because I would like to know who is going to fuck with me and how if/when I decide I wish to liquidate some or all of my stash.

WTF?

The bank transfer option in your screenshot didn't work for you? Did you select SWIFT option in the following screen when you complete the wizard?

I bank at TD bank and once started getting international wires found out the hard way that TD bank has different wire details for domestic and international incoming wires, by default TD gave me only domestic wire details and first couple of tries of getting wires from abroad were unsuccessful, funds would return to client taking 1-2 weeks for them to land back in their account,   just something to think  about: make sure your bank gives you international wire details.

You ought to offer MtGox USD codes on Bitcoin-otc.  On quite a few occasions someone will need some Gox USD now and would rather buy yours than buy Gox's.  In fact I haven't withdrawn money from Gox in almost a year - have always liquidated balances when necessary by either selling BTC or GoxUSD.

Woah. ... no more international wire withdrawal?  Is that globally, or just U.S.?   [Update: Just a misunderstanding, wire's still supported]

It sounds confusing at first, but there is an ability to setup wire withdraws from Withdraw Center by clicking on "Add withdraw method" button and then completing withdraw template wizard

Ok, so apparently the "Withdraw Wizard" is actually a "Wire Transfer Wizard."  What a completely asinine design.

Anyway, you can apparently still do wire transfers, they've just hidden it behind a bunch of junk, making it non-obvious.  Select bank transfer, then get a pop up screen with DWOLLA and OKPAY promenintly displayed, but click that button over there that says wizard and has nothing to do with "Bank Transfer", then you can enter your information.

Now I'm back to paying $20 fee per transfer, of which I have to do 3 of, so $60 charged by MTGox to withdraw my funds... not to mention the money I have to pay for EACH transfer by my institution.

All in all, I've lost over $1000 due to "fees" and exchange rate fluctuation over the past 3 weeks, all thanks to MTGox ineptitude.

Wow another e-tantrum directed at MTGOX from a dodgy user - big surprise.

Result will either be

A) MTGOX had legit delays, resolves it and the big sook gets his 26k
B) MTGOX ask for ID, Inaba refuses and posts another e-rant.

Seriously, grow the fuck up, You tell everyone to accept delays from BFL but you wont wait 3 weeks for them to resolve an international money transfer issue ?

EDIT: Oh well done for reading the MTGOX FAQ, that rant seems a bit stupid now doesnt it ?

I'm still amazed you can transfer that much at once but that's just me. Always thought the hard limit was 10K / 30 days.

Bitcoin: an anonymous* digital currency!

* You just need to disclose irrelevant personal financial information on a public forum.

 (http://YES I KNOW IT'S NOT TECHNICALLY ANONYMOUS UNLESS YOU DO STUFF, STOP BEING PEDANTIC)

I got another useless response from MTGox support:


Indeed they do still have wire transfers as I detailed a couple posts ago.  Except it's called "Withdraw Wizard" now, not "Wire" or "Bank Transfer". Silly me.

But the real kicker here is first they lie about the Dwolla transfer - 6 business days my ass, when I had the transfer in for longer than that (and this was prior to the 6 business days deal, where it was previously instant), it never completed and had to be canceled.  Then they tell me I have to mail them (via snail mail) notarized documents for their "AML team" to "review." I've already sent them proof of my personhood, any further documents I would send them could just as easily be forged as what I've already sent them, so it's a useless request... not to mention it would then force me to wait for an undetermined amount of time for the documents to arrive in the mail, then the "AML Team" to "review" them.

Ludicrous.  So I am forced to either pay additional fees to convert BACK (yet again) into BTC and transfer out or pay the $60, over the course of 3 days, to withdraw the USD... which does not include what my bank charges me to receive the transfer. 

MT.Gox need to start compensating people with an acceptable rate of interest ....DAILY.

If they were FINALLY faced with a situation that could cost them money (cutting into their tidy little interest profit scam) they might do better to move things along a bit quicker for users who are looking to get their money out.

Honestly, think about it though.
What incentive do they currently have to speed up your transfer of money out to you ?

Someone needs to step up and offer them some competition.
Until this happens, they will simply continue to shit all over the users that make them rich.

The only way that things will ever get better is if they are challenged...not only by customers, but mostly by competition.

I wouldn't wire the $6K.  Between Gox fees, interim bank fees, and my bank fees my last wire ending up costing.  $62.87.  :)

Bad enough on $10K but the markup is worse on $6K.  Hedge your bets.  If it were me I would wire $10K (so you can see the total damage in fees), keep $10K in MtGox USD, and move the $6K back to BTC for withdrawal off-site.  Oh and don't be "stupid" like me and start a 2nd wire before the first one clears.  Despite no rule about that and no warning on withdrawal page doing that triggered an "insert BS lockdown excuse here" hold on my account for 5 days.  

The funny thing is people seem to think Amazon/Steam/Newegg/etc will be accepting Bitcoins within a month/year/decade.  Maybe but it isn't going to happen when a single 5 figure move brings the largest global Bitcoin exchange to a halt for weeks.  I mean even a prosperous medium sized retail business is going to have cashflow in the millions.

With AML verification it is $10K per day, $50K per month.

Customer who report the problem after complying w/ MtGox rules and false promises is an e-tantrum?

You think funds locked up in limbo for weeks while customer support is utterly clueless and their website continually lies to other customers on the withdrawal options/timelines is acceptable business practices?

Oh yeah, I saw that.  What the hell is an interim bank fee, anyway?  I've never even heard of that... not that I've done much wiring of funds.  Maybe that's normal?  62 bucks to transfer 6k?  Gah.

What do you guys think of Bitfloor?  I was considering transferring the funds to them and then withdrawing via ACH... Additionally, it looks like they have a fairly robust API, I'm thinking of moving my automated trading stuff there as well.  Their market depth is super thin, though, but then it's a chicken and egg problem.


This is quite true ... Amazon et al would have to basically run their own exchange.  There's no way any of the current offerings could handle real global commerce, both from a CS perspective and from an operational one.

It is when the originating bank and destination bank don't share a wire link so they route it through an interim bank(s).  The interim bank is happy to be the retransfer agent ... for a fee. Luck of the draw I guess.  Maybe the bank MtGox uses will have a direct link to your bank and you will avoid the interim bank fee ... or maybe not.  Other than this the only time I have seen interim bank fees is when the bank is way off the beaten path.  Cashing out four or five figures from poker sites often resulted in 2 (or 3) interim banks (each charging $15 to $25 in fees).


Yeah that is the problem but one that won't solve itself.  I am forcing myself to spread volume around to multiple exchanges.  Semi-hypocritical I still use Gox but my goal now is to have 1/3rd my volume traded "off gox".

Anytime you want to admit this was the fault of your own stupidity and retract your flames against mtgox is a good mate.

Unless your to arrogant to admit your wrong even when it is plain to see for all.

Oh, so it's an anti-money laundering issue? I guess my question is relevant.

And today I learned :D

Oh Jeez.  Um...The Joint ask you a question.  Lots of people are waiting...

So what's the root of your Gox sycophancy?  Employee?  Fanboy?

I don't see anything dodgy or improper about his transactions.  On the other hand, the record of MtGox screwing people is very well established.

This. Unfortunately.

EDIT the below meant only regarding the initial issue from the op.

It does look like this might be as much a Dwolla issue as a Mt Gox issue https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77605.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77605.0)

And this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=81945.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=81945.0) hardly adds to Dwolla's credibility, neither does the whole Tradehill debacle.

However Mt Gox could be a lot more proactive in informing customers of issues.

Dwolla is preventing MtGox from issuing wire transfers in a timely manner or providing realistic delay estimates?

I see 3 possibilities here

1. MtGox service suck. This would be, ironically, the best explanation but my personal experience with them which has been exemplary makes this seem unlikely.
2. MtGox is being excessively hampered by AML rules which for $26000 seems ridiculous.
3. MtGox is having cash flow problems. This would be alas the most worrisome for bitcoin in general and if true I wouldn't be surprised if Dwolla was to blame... after all the second largest bitcoin exchange blamed their demise entirely on Dwolla poor handling of their policies.

Ugh seems I missed the wire delay part.

Editing previous post for clarity.

Inaba, judging from your quoted daily limit you haven't got a trust level 2 account, meaning more attention from AML when dealing with large amounts. Your situation deeply worries me as I planned to use Mt.Gox for transfers. However, I got my account verified up to level 2 and have $100k daily limit.

"Become an individual exchanger amongst your social network. Centralized exchanges are vulnerable to attack by existing power structures. Cultivate and utilize a personal network of exchange partners to help you move in and out of your existing national currency."

Bitcoin: The Ultimate Offshore Bank Account?
http://tinyurl.com/3hu6qc5

"The safest way to acquire bitcoin is to let people know that you will accept it as payment for your products and services. Avoid exchanging it for national currencies. The point that people miss here is that national currencies are the very problem that freedom-lovers are trying to get away from. Instead, use bitcoin to trade with merchants and individuals who accept it as payment. Offer it as payment to those who are unaware of it and explain the benefits to them. This will help develop the market and create a solid economy outside of national currencies."

The Coming Attack On Bitcoin And How To Survive It
http://tinyurl.com/3b6d823

I strongly recommend you withdraw your money in Bitcoin in small steps (400 BTC/day or more if you're verified), and sell it on other markets. Put a buy order for something like 4.95 USD/BTC (not to loose to much money), and wait. Or even 4.92 USD, the price might drop a bit to the levels of 11-14 May - just a few days ago.

Because with time it might get even worse. MtGox might "pull an AML" on you, it might take another some weeks or months or you never know.

You must have not done a very good job searching at other exchanges.

Your sum is just 5200 BTC. That's just about daily volume of Intersango on GBP. Its just 2 days volume on http://www.bitcoin.de/ and you can get quite good prices there - but SEPA only.

There are several other markets. This is not such a huge sum, you get this liquidated to fiat in a week or less.

What country do you need the wire to?

Put some one sale on https://bitmarket.eu/market/USD and advertise it on https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=53.0

If you offer a good price (4.89 USD or less) I might be interested in buying by wire to anywhere in the world, in portions of 1000 USD a time, and I sell the BTC off in Europe and buy the next portion. Lots of other people would do the same probably.

Would you care to mind your own business instead of asking unacceptable indiscreet questions which have nothing to do with the case?

If you leave your car at a guarded parking lot does someone ask you where you got it from when you want it back?

Ifs none of yours or MtGox's business. If someone claims that the 26'000 USD is his - bring proof, or shut up.

So the way to avoid MtGox's high fees and long delays is to pay you high fees and accept long delays. :)
Selling BTC at 4.89 is the equivalent of a 3.5% fee.  Include the 0.5% trading fee and cost of wire combined with the batches based on your ability to resell it doesn't look like that good of a "deal".

I am not saying just me, lots of people on the forum and bitcoin-otc will happily take some, a 1000 USD worth per person is easy.

No, he won't lose 3.5% if he waits till MtGox BTC prices are under 4.90 USD for a while. They go up and down around 5 dollar mark all the time, so its enough to wait a week or two and will be 4.90 or less, just be patient. He might even get more USD out of it in the end then he has now.

Yes, delays, but still it might be faster then waiting for MtGox to complete the wire (which nobody knows when will happen).

Some time ago a buy offered 500 BTC for sale on the marketplace here on the forum, paid by wire, and it was gone in under 48 hours. The 26000$ person here has just 10 times as much, so its not such a huge sum, can be liquidated with person-to-person trades in probably less time then MtGox finally makes the wire.

8/10 if trolling

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3



Sometime later...


Later still...



http://i52.tinypic.com/11k829z.jpg

This one was pretty funny. I guess that 8/10 may be as high as 8.5/10.

This is kind of scary. It can be a sign that MTGOX does not have the funds to release..

it's an old thread. not sure of the outcome exactly but I imagine Inaba got his money sometime or the thread wouldn't have died like it did.

Well... true.  But now I'm on day 15 of a $4000 withdraw request and nothing.  Same old shit.

So you did receive those previous 26K?  How long did you wait total to receive the money?

Any explanation from Gox as to why the delay?

is there a way to get validated for more than $1000/day or $10,000/month?

Hello,

Yes, you may apply for a Trusted account.  Please find the information regarding this below.

 “Trusted” Status (Level 2)

Being “trusted” has the following limits:


Traditional Currencies

Daily withdrawal limit (24hrs): 100,000 USD (or equivalent)

Monthly withdrawal limit: 500,000 USD (or equivalent)

Bitcoin

Daily Bitcoin withdrawal limit (24hrs): 20,000 BTC

Monthly Bitcoin withdrawal limit: none

 

Requirements for all "trusted" submissions:

All document required for "trusted” accounts must be notarized, apostilled and sent by priority mail to the address at the bottom of this page.


Requirements for Indviduals:

A  valid copy of a government issued photo ID and proof of residence (less than 3 months old) - E.g. A utility or phone bill.  If your documents are not in english, or do not have latin script, they need to be translated and then notarized before uploading.


Requirements for Businesses:

1. Certificate of incorporation/registration

2. Identity & address verification of shareholders entitles to 10% or more in voting rights

3. Company constitution or articles of memorandum and a

4. Copy of Trust Deed for the Trust involved as part of shareholders (if any)

 If your documents are not in english, or do not have latin script, they need to be translated and then notarized before mailing them. 

The “trusted” status is designed for day traders, professionals, and companies.

 

Please mail a notarized copy or translation of your government issued photo ID and proof of residence to :

Mt.Gox AML
Round Cross Shibuya 5F
11-6 Shibuya 2-Chome, Shibuya-ku
Tokyo, Japan
150-0002

Hello,

As of today, pending Dwolla withdrawals have been processed as the funds we sent have reached our account.  Should you still have not received your Dwolla withdrawal, please feel free to contact us at the Support Desk.

i asked for withdrawal on january 10th (bank transfer, EUR),
live chat said  my transaction still queued on January 24th

verifying me took 27 (11 working) days for mtgox   

so after 45 days (from December 13th) i still cannot get my money from mtgox

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=138528.0