Bitcoin Forum

ROFL! these fucking motherfuckers.

man, one day i hope we dont need them anymore.

Explain, please. As a buyer I want to be protected by ability to get the money back if I'm not satisfied with the quality of a purchase. Your post looks illogical to me.

WTF? are paypal staff total idiot? but it is ridicolous to extend time of chargeback, in this way many shill can ask for chargeback in longtime !

180 days? From now on, it is better to buy stuff with PayPal and not sell stuff via PayPal.

Example:Buy PS4 through PayPal, play with console for 170 or so days(may be less), file dispute, get money back. Profit.

But what is most likely to happen. Buy bitcoins through PayPal, wait 170 or so days and file dispute, get money back.

The market will find an equilibrium point even in this case. No need to worry for this, the market has been doing it for ages.

wow, just wow. I know I always breathe a sigh of relief after 45 days if I sell on eBay, this makes me really scared to keep using ebay/paypal

Wow.  It seems our assumptions about Paypal wanting to be more secure and cracking down on false chargebacks are completely wrong.  I guess we gave Paypal too much credit despite its track record.

The market dosen't need paypal. If an instrument is obsolete, it will be abandoned.
But there's a pro in paypal behaviour: a buyer will preferably buy were he's best protected from scams. Frequent scams are why people don't like to buy on an unknown/untrusted website, even with fiat and paypal, and this is a big problem for small indipendent sellers. This is a huge problem with btc too, as escrow is too complicated for the average user to use  

Perhaps this policy will not apply to bitcoin use? We really don't know how they are going to implement it yet.

Yes, but what happens when the scammer is the one buying? Honest sellers are screwed with this model.

Paypal didn't screw up...

It's just an extra protection for current and potential buyers, and they will actually like it.

People still compare Paypal with Bitcoin, none will win and none will lose. These are two totally different payment options.

Honest sellers need to attract  buyers, unless you make BIG discounts .But that would seem even more a scam, and in the long run you'ĺl lose more money for discounts than for a couple of unlikely chargeback scams.

BItcoin need a better user-friendly escrow system, I hope that open bazaar will success in that goal.

They did , at least this what think.
They may be protecting the buyer ... by not the seller

Yeah, maybe PayPal will only accept cash in the mail with a signed BTC message proving ownership of the key in the envelope, and restrict withdrawals to that address with re-signing required each time. ;)

Buyers are what drive the economy. Without buyers then there will be no economic output. It is also the sellers that are competing for the buyers' business not the other way around. If buyers are better protected then it will be easier for a seller to compete for business.

Also the sellers are protected. In the event the buyers is successful at getting their money back from a frivolous chargeback, the seller could take the buyer to court and sue the buyer for what is owed to them plus legal fees

It is not 180 day's to allow for chargeback, chargebacks are done via you credit card company and can be done at any time, they are expanding the time a buyer has to lodge a dispute, which they have specialists review before making a decision on who to side with, for seller there is plenty of ways to protect yourself from scammers and paypal have many tips on how to stay safe :)

Def gonna rethink selling on ebay... IMO this will cost them considerable $ s.

that is good for buyers,but really bad for sellers....
60 days would have been a more logical increase,but more than that is excessive

How is this even be considered as a screw up???.This sound more detrimental to bitcoin.


They are making Paypal even more attractive to regular consumers AKA the general public.

It doesn't matter how many sellers want bitcoin, if buyers prefer to use more convenient payment methods that offers more protection to them then there's not much reason for them to switch to bitcoin ,is there?

"Professional buyers" have been around ever since PayPal made it clear that they will protect buyers almost all of the time. The scammers have moved on from selling and never shipping to buying Macbooks, filing disputes, returning phonebooks in their place and getting fully refunded.

I hate PayPal but I cannot knock their business model. Pander to the buyers and the sellers will follow. As a seller, you almost get muscled into using PayPal because that's what your buyers demand.

I have lost over $3000 to "Buyer protection" and no, they did not give back the bitcoins that I sold them. And yes, PayPal sided with the buyer.
"We are sorry sir, we do not want to see your proof from the blockchain. We have no interest at all in your proof. We side with the buyer."

Have you ever consider how many buyers you would have lost if they don't have buyers protection at all?

in my country ,the time to ldge your dispute is only  7 days..

You are all happy as consumers

I'm not against nor am i going support the change but if we consider carefully, certain items like for instance electrical appliances have warranty period that extends up to 6 months.

true ref..there's no win n lose here..! although one can help the other! hopefully

Paypal will loose merchants because of this because chargebacks are going on merchant's expense. They are so stupid.

This is huge win for scammers. Buyer protection is nice feature, but really - isnt 45 days enough to fail a dispute? Its such a long time. Buyers can easly analyse sellers, read reviews, reps and so on. Seller cant do things like that. Obviously, honest sellers are paying the price of customers being stupid and involving themselves in scams.

And those same merchants will be coming back to Paypal when their customers demand them more buyer's protection, lest the want to lose business to competitors that still use Paypal.

Well if this is the case merchants should refuse to accept Paypal, but they probably wont. Isn't this 180 day limit similar to the timeframe you get with creditcards? I think if people are going to pull of a charegback scam they would do it within a month as opposed to waiting 100+ days anyway.

This may be true in most cases, but there are digital good selling sites where buyers REP means a lot. Such a long time to fill dispute means it is possible for a scammer not taint his REP for 6 months, scamming lots of sellers in that period. When -REPs will come it, scammer will be already long gone and started another account.

They just made it worse while we were complaining about 45 days chargeback system. It's now 180 days that means a seller is vulnerable to chargebacks anytime over 6 months.

Exactly , they may just stick with big companies like Ebay , Amazon , Aliexpress , Alibaba etc.
This may be protecting the buyer ... but the seller is in deep shit  ::)

It doubtful that any merchant would drop Paypal for this.They'll be losing consumer's support if they do so, really bad for business.This is pretty much a  win win for Paypal which is why this move is pretty clever/shrewd manoeuvring by Paypal.

I really dont want to be fuckd up by paypal. I really depend on it right now..

Then just tell sender or whoever they are to start sending in bitcoins lol
I use paypal too but never dependent on it.

this is really insane now scammer can scam for a long period of time .

If you think that's bad, try looking at online marketplaces, I think I have no choice but to put some of my stuff on there at least because that's where everyone is right now.

Each transaction now takes 180 days to clear.

Just so you know, I have had 3 separate people try to burn me when I was selling peercoin and feathercoins a year back. They filed a dispute and luckily ebay took my blockchain proof and let me keep my money. But initially for the first 30 days of this ebay took my money and held it hostage. Thank goodness for me keeping all email correspondence between the person and I. The emails showed they asked me to send to "X" address and I told them I would send it from my "Y" address and asked them if that was ok. Once I got them to say yes it is ok and I asked them again to verify their address only then did I send after I was paid. Then 40 days later charge backs hit for these people(within the same week).

So I was out 900+ bucks across 3 disputes for a 30 day period. This is not fun at all, especially since I was pretty sure I was going to get screwed. Blockchain for feathercoin and peercoin was the only thing that saved me and luckily i made them confirm multiple times for undeniable proof.

Extending it out by half a year gives these scammers more of an opportunity to scam you because now you gotta dig through everything and ebay takes your funds back and blah... My dad also gets the occasional scam by people using the "buyers protection" and he has like 500 feedback @ 99.5% positive and the only negative two were from some guy who thought he bought something new but it said used and he was an idiot. My dad has gotten scammed by people saying they didn't get shipments of items and stuff and it seriously is a joke. people hack other people's accounts and screw around.

Buyer protection? More like scammer protection.

If you read through their "policies" its easy to scam if you carefully work around them.  Its happened to me before and was NOT fun.  They definitely need to work on their case review process and use some common sense sometimes.

Paypal is the worst, I hope 5 yrs from now everyone is using btc as much as they are using paypal now.

Anyway, always remember that "Paypal Sucks"  ;D
http://www.paypalsucks.com/ (http://www.paypalsucks.com/)

Let`s be real here.... If we are making purchases (especially large ones) - there should be buyer protection.    I don`t think Bitcoin is winning in this case...  IMHO.

Why not ? you can simply use Escrow in Bitcoin.
in Paypal even using  Middleman won't help lol ... it's 180 freaking days man, It may protect the buyer very well but the seller is screwed up totally  :o

True....   What escrow services are available to the average joe with ease of use right now?

What are some transparent, reputable escrow companies?  I know there are "trusted" individuals on here, but really how does that translate to mass usability?

I don't know any (but maybe they will be) , I'am speaking about trustable members .
Still... Bitcoin is a couple of minuts transaction . once you send the money it's done, no 180 days for being/becoming ultimate paranoid  . you don't sleep afraid at night ;) and that's just my opinion

I occasionally sell on ebay and this pisses me off. ESP. if I am selling intangible good such as giftcodes. That means I will have 180 days to panic about losing my income from intangible sold goods.

I do understand the concerns from a seller perspective.   They are there to make money and sell product.  Not take something back up to 180 days later.   I dunno...  Maybe they are trying to get an edge for the consumer instead of the seller here.

The thing that sucks about ebay and paypal is they dont investigate claims very well.  They look to their policies, and whoever is "right" accordign to their policies wins.  They don't actually investigate and make logical decisions.

Paypal is a joke !

I thought 45 days period was longer than necessary. Now it stretched to 180 days?

So let me understand this:
I can buy whatever I want, use it for 5 months and can return it to get my money back?

Right...  now it makes sense to buy through PayPal, but NOT SELL.

They are doing it because of pressure from Visa and Mastercard. The standard time for filing a chargeback on a credit card account is 180 days from the date of the statement the charge appeared on. Since PayPal accepts credit cards, and is one of the largest credit card processors in the world they had to come in line with standard industry chargeback standards.

Well their policies are known to both the buyer and the seller ahead of time, so they can take a set of facts and reasonably conclude which party will be sided with.

Also this way takes away the judgment of low level employees. If you take away these policies then you have the potential for employees making an incorrect conclusion or two different employees making two different conclusions based on the same facts - this would increase the number of scams because it would increase the chance a scammer would succeed

paypal is not perfect enough, but so does BTC exchange.

How is that ? for BTC . You should simply use a trusted Escrow and you are fine  :P

bitcoin is a winner and will forever against paypal
paypal just want to freeze accounts and take their fund
this is how their business growing
bitcoin is best

LOL

I have lost so much money to these idiots. How can they allow so much fraud to be claimed through their system without ever question the integrity of their platform. You dont extend the time, you fix the issue!

So it begins it seems! Paypal is royally f'in up!

Paypal is just a lame excuse for being a money exchange. I really hope Bitcoin stands up to this f*****s someday and we will get to dump it. >:(

bingo i won't use them for other dramas too
i also had family who worked for ebay and was a regional rep of ebay in western canada.. i know their BS lol

Paypal and ebay are garbage period.
avoid at all costs or you will see why eventually lol

Is there no truce between paypal and btc anymore?

180 days is way too long, 45 days was fine in my opinion.

Well the issue is that you have two sets of people that need to be protected, the buyer and the seller. The buyer has much more power as many sellers are competing for the buyer's business.

The seller also has the option to take legal action against the buyer in the event that he files a dispute that is fraudulent.