Bitcoin Forum

http://altcoinpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/bitcoin_atom_bomb-660x400.jpg

The Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) today issued two administrative rulings regarding digital currency. And the government has apparently decided to go with the nuclear option.

The first ruling published today relates to the application of FinCEN regulations to a virtual currency trading platform, while the second ruling discusses the application of FinCEN regulations to a virtual currency payment system.

In ruling FIN-2014-R011, FinCEN states that any and all cryptocurrency exchanges must become licensed as a money transmitter including crypto-only exchanges:

"As explained in the Guidance, a person is an exchanger and a money transmitter if the person accepts convertible virtual currency from one person and transmits it to another person as part of the acceptance and transfer of currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for currency."

In ruling FIN-2014-R012, the agency confirms that any and all payment processors are obliged to register as money transmitters, significantly increasing the cost of entry in becoming a digital payments provider.

"As described above, the Company is an exchanger under the Guidance because it engages as a business in accepting and converting the customer’s real currency into virtual currency for transmission to the merchant. The fact that the Company uses its cache of Bitcoin to pay the merchant is not relevant to whether it fits within the definition of money transmitter."

Once labeled a money transmitter, a business wishing to continue operating must pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to become licensed in each of the 50 states. And that’s only the beginning of the regulatory costs and legal hoop jumping.

In addition, companies are required to register with FinCEN, conduct a comprehensive risk assessment of its exposure to money laundering, implement an Anti-Money Laundering Program based on such risk assessment, and comply with various record keeping, reporting and transaction monitoring obligations, in addition to meeting several other requirements.

It is interesting to note that the government classifies Bitcoin as a digital “property” for taxation purposes, but as a digital “money” for regulatory and licensing purposes.

Full Story: http://altcoinpress.com/2014/10/fincen-ruling-us-government-ramps-up-war-on-cryptocurrency/

According to these new rulings, there is the possibility that a business paying its employees in cryptocurrency (under certain circumstances) would be subject to the money transmitter requirements.

I suspect it will take a few days for the gravity of this new development to be fully appreciated and understood.

Basically this makes it so exchanges will not be based in the USA?  If that is the case, nice job pushing away businesses yet again.

Fallout is tough to calculate on this.  :-\

One one hand we may need some more regulation but does this goes too far?

edit some exchanges already comply?

So? Information in OP has already been known since..Bitcoin was first made(2009) and has been around for decades. It's just being collectively "enforced". Lol

Nothing new.

It is not that important.  All they did was apply their existing rules.  This was discussed in some of the early let's Talk Bitcoin episodes back in early 2013 when they interviewed the Monet Transfer Association a couple times. 

Where can we find the definition.  Of digital or crypto currency trading platform?

   Does this include p2p transactions if available to public? Any coin with an exchange feature considered trading platform?

  In which case vaguely would identities including known aliases be attached to this licensing?  Decentralized mamarketplaces would be by definition perhaps trading platform reasonably by vague law if it's written so..

    Please post if this legislation in detail has a link.

The rulings from today will actually affect merchants in new and much broader ways. For example, in many cases, a company will no longer be allowed to pay wages in Bitcoin without registering as a money transmitter.

This might be relevant too.

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/sec-sends-inquiry-letters-hundreds-bitcoin-companies-unregistered-securities/

If Poloniex is involved with the BlockNET IPO somebody might want to contact the owner.  Might help save him some headache

How do you come up with that?  That is not part of providing services unless it is some kind of scheme to transfer money under the guise of salaries or something.  The ruling is in the context of http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/31/1010.100 (31 CFR 1010.100) like it says in the footnotes.

Also see the ruling I got last year about mining.
http://cointext.com/fincen-issues-bitcoin-friendly-ruling-for-miners/

hmmm, any node that relays tx to another node or includes tx into block becomes a money transmitter as it does this on behalf of someone else. Am I correct?

Anyone care to speculate on how this impacts poloniex or bittrex (both based in USA but I'm assuming not registered as money transmitters)?

Better to close Cryptsy and CryptoStocks, too?

I seen this at coindesk today and was talking about it on Poloniex's chat.. others guys were saying this would kill our traditional exchanges
a few guys went on to say P2P decentralized exchanges would solve that.. in other words they can't regulate it !
so..
Then i responded by saying..


be careful guys ;)
i guess "wild speculations" and saying "sorry" is ban worthy at Poloniex  ::)

edit:
is it not obvious i meant EVERY traditional exchange ?

 Cryptsy already paid the massive fee.  Think they're good. 

  And seems the issue is.. exchange fees? As long as no fees are charged, then these rules don't apply?

Oh I'd forgotten that Cryptsy became a licensed money transmitter(Hence there USD Markets). I guess Cryptsy is the (only?) american exchange to use now.

in case people are curious i posted my long chat box quote because of what this guy said..

and yeah Cryptsy hmm interesting LOL

http://i59.tinypic.com/ddc48i.jpg

Ohhh. ...  This is about ipos and corporate cryptos..  everyone saying they are running a business..  pretending their corporations are backing their crypto currency...  then issuing public shares based on their corporate holdings!

   Which ia really is a lie.. there is nothing actually legally bound to a token or a coin from a corporation. . No ipo account holder would be listed as creditors in the event of insolvency. .

   So is then this regulation going to destroy ipos, ShitCoin exchanges, and maybe take a bite out of shit coins and scammers?

   Sure are  a lot of ipos held on exchanges that turn out to be scams lately...

  Am I reading this wrong.. or will this force decentralization further?

   Would corporate crypto die? Maybe that would be amazing. .

You got it buddie.  Blue skies and ocean breezes on its way to altcoinland.

Just hope poloniex doesn't croak too soon

Maybe we can create one based upon


Like "a crypto currency trading platform is something beeing located outside of the 50 states". Who would qualify with this definition? BTC-E, BTC China, BTER, Yunbi, even Kraken so I think this will need further pondering. But basically the toplist downwards allready falls into this definition pretty much.

 Meant does it apply to ipos and dentralized assets based on corporate public shares.. I kept sayin.. quit calling yourself a business I said.. quit backing your coin with government labelled assets I said. Stop the corporate crycryptos i said.. man.. This gonna drill on through ain't it..

   Wonder if transaction fees cause a decentralized exchange to be considered a business... or a coin.. does this apply to mining? Any American cloud hashers out there?

Would this apply to pools?

  So pos coins the way to go..

 Remember too they're pushing the legality of aliases to real names and ips etc.. santy clause be making his list and checking it twice.

   Wonder if anon is actually real.  Guess this is a good time to check the effectiveness of the honey pot tor.

  And if a coin is considered a business they will demand all transaction records.  If those can't be supplied. Might be a violation too... failure to comply to financial ref is likely bad.

 Pos might be only safe coin? All pools accepting payment in bitcoin and charging fees would he subject In usa for now.
   
  Is.. Pos? The answer? How will developers be responsible? Could github be ordered to supply dev info?

  Where does this end?

Is this forum from usa?  Might want to start deleting posts if so.. lol

This is the funniest thing I have read lately... :D

There's no point, all posts here get archived automatically at https://bitcointa.lk/

Bolded red: there is already solution www.multigateway.org
Still Beta version.

What happens to exchanges outside the US who do not register with FINCEN?

Um... multi gateway is an exchange service that charges fees, and gateway currencies are held on the platform?? The platform owners or developers could be subject?

  What defines ownership of a platform?

   What defines a crypto exchange business?

   Multi gateway is definitely a crypto exchange platform.

  But the law is vague. In decentralized nature, then only nodes in the USA using the platform are at risk? Of course they are pushing for full disclosure starting at the root..

   Counterparty is getting the beats.. nxt ae next?  I've read the new legislation, but frankly it is very vague.. which means leaves open to new legislation and vague rulings.

   Can extradition be possible if in order with anti terror laws? After all, laundering is just the first cause to order, and vague definitions will link to global order terror laws soon enough...

  Make no mistake about it. . This thread and this law.. is only a small part of what to come.

  The question on anonymity being real was a poke at the order the global unseen government has on us all..

  Remember .  Sha256. .  Well who created it?  Interesting laws are now being passed to protect the us governments perhaps.. crown jewel? Bitcoin?

   Also remember.  Any of us movers and shakers, and in particular every single anon coin dev that isn't already an nsa honeypot.. is on a list. .

  And don't think you're personal information can't be linked to mobile gps, registration documents, that your isp, mobile provider, debit cards, visa cards, (prepaid or otherwise) can't be tracked and will not be logged..

  The anon marketing scam, well is scrutiny.. and ultimately forced disclosure..
   
  Satoshi designed bitcoin as 100% anon.  Just use a different address.  Every transaction.  Does anyone really think that nsa software can't break through the shitty poorly designed 'anon' currency transactions.. When they the ones that wrote the initial script? People are too lazy to start a new addy every transaction, and sure as hell wouldn't be marketable..

   Internet aliases will likely be passed as legal representatives of all the 'anon" coins.   I just hope anon practices supercede anon software. . Cuz it'll be like Domino's. .and a blank blockchain  = jail time. Why? Financial disclosure... Anon coins.. we'll they unfortunately don't have records.
   
  Extradition? Well depends on how isis pads the anti terror law legislation being passed and the joining of coalition in areas of vague law in the new global order..

   Many powerful incidents as of late..  but don't think you can hide behind a vpn. . Anon... was created before you were all born.  No matter how many layers in an onion.. can still be stripped to the core.. and thrown on the good old American bbq.

   Especially when that onion was grown in the good old us of a..
 
   What is the fight? Bitcoin may be the enemy of freedom..  The hard fork impending..  sidechains impending.. sunshine and lollipops for alts? Sarcastic understood. How can one truly fight?

    Human rights are being stripped under our noses.. and every crypto that claims to be a business, or corporation or says hi! I'm the ceo of fuck the government is asking for a lashing not only  personally but all the investors..

  Anyone mind to stop calling crypto currencies a business? Or should I go back to my job at 711 and give up..

I'd like to point out, that you give way way too much credit to the NSA. Yes they have a vast amount of resources and very trained/skilled people, but Private companies have A Lot more very skilled people. The geniuses of this world dont work for the government, when they can make much more money working privately.

Bitcoin has what we call, psuedo anonymity, and it is not or even remotely close to "100% anon". Yes you're correct in that using new addresses for every transaction would hide your tracks(not that effectively though), but seriously, what average person is going to do that? Remember, you're not marketing crypto to the techies, you're marketing it to the average population. Therefore, anon coins fit the bill perfectly, such as Monero. Cryptonote allows for both regular sending(as with bitcoin), and anonymous sending with different mixing levels.

So we're all money transmitters now.
All culprits=all innocent.

Really?  All the activity under Goods, Currency Exchange, etc.? ???

Hey mouthy argumentative idiots.. ALL OF YOU

I TOLD YOU SO !

Remember me saying regulation is coming non stop for a year and how you all said but but they can't ?

well go stamp your feet and stomp it your room and slam the door i am sure they will protect your coins / service LOL

I am ALWAYS right ..suck it  8)

This Spoetnik fellow, although rather overly enthusiastic, is exactly right.  Don't see the problem, there's plenty of safe cryptos.  PandaCoin is one such, boring, safe, thread full of happy pandas, scamming no-one. Dogecoin is in the good list.  Litecoin, lots of the old boys club.  The new lot are trash which needs to be in the rubbish pit.  Just a matter of people shifting BTC away from the garbage coins into the real stuff.  Cryptsy has paid the fee it seems.  Bittrex should have the money after all the scam ICOs they've been involved with.  We'll be fine, less coins and if a scam comes up enter the G-men stage right.  No worries.

 Not true.  I believe any American pool for these coins will fit the bill.. and be phase 2.  This is just cutting the hedges..


And Yeh Spoetnik. . Is right. Imagine that.

So, what's your next big prediction?

  Yep. And will come down to extradition laws to decide on whether or not it ends in the us. If they can jail a canadian for selling pot seeds.. imagine what they can do with cryptos..

  Remember all us companies will be forced to provide full transparency to the irs and fincen.. on every single ip involved.. so all you bittrex pumpers and dumpers..  polo pumpers and dumpers.. they com in for ya.. and cryptsy well.. ya should a followed and noted they already fincen dogs. And paid the grand price to be so.

 Let me take that one... The Fed protects their creation called bitcoin.. and cuts the heads off all anon coins and exchanges not complying..  Seems obvious doesn't it?

Hmmm, when you say "protect" bitcoin, I'm guessing you mean: it will be adulterated beyond recognition.
True or false?

yeap
... sorry polo, bittrex, cryptsy I'm out if you comply
... hello exchanges in china, brazil, hong kong, panama, and thailand

so this means bitcoin is money. but it's property. but it's money if you set up an exchange in the USA. otherwise, it's property. what

a 1,000 LOL'z

http://cryptolife.net/the-curious-case-of-pandacoins/

we all know its a fail ..a massive swirling vortex of scammery and drama with pitiful bag holders trying as hard as they can to keep a scam coin alive.

i have never cared or said anything about it until now so don't pin this problem you have on me either !

..calling bulllshit when i see it ;)

Welcome to the real world :) The laws and rules are playing with definitions in favor of a government and a very specific pick of people, not in favor of all citizens.

I'll be right  8)

Regulation of course.. and the scattering of services like i keep saying.

Those that comply will stay and those that are getting scared will shut down because of "hackers" etc.  ::)

You all had YEARS to speak up to the govt and commissions etc and kept quiet saying they can't over and over.. they did.
and i was unilaterally shot down and mouthed off no matter how many times i urged you all to have your say and contribute !
i don't recall anyone ever agreeing with me before..



So.. you don't want a vote but now after the fact you want to have a say ?

2+2 = 4, except when 2+2=5

 True.  Isn't that what everyone Is crying about? Hey didn't I see you on the Amazon to accept bitcoin list?
   

https://i.imgur.com/PB3ilQD.jpg

Anybody? No? Ya sure?

Your next big prediction is.... regulation?
That's the same as the first prediction you made, isn't it?

BTW, a broken clock is also right, twice a day.

Lol... you are really a dumbass arent you?? You obviously dont do good research :D

Sheeple. lol