US Government Mistakes Digital Currency for Pacific Island!

[e-coinomist]

Where can we find the definition.  Of digital or crypto currency trading platform?

Maybe we can create one based upon

Once labeled a money transmitter, a business wishing to continue operating must pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to become licensed in each of the 50 states. And that’s only the beginning of the regulatory costs and legal hoop jumping.

Like "a crypto currency trading platform is something beeing located outside of the 50 states". Who would qualify with this definition? BTC-E, BTC China, BTER, Yunbi, even Kraken so I think this will need further pondering. But basically the toplist downwards allready falls into this definition pretty much.

[1714578490]

1714578490

[1714578490]

1714578490

[arteleis]

Great great, "Blue Skies" and "May contain forward looking statements", I can't wait to read my first altcoin prospectus and then promptly jump out a high rise window.

 Meant does it apply to ipos and dentralized assets based on corporate public shares.. I kept sayin.. quit calling yourself a business I said.. quit backing your coin with government labelled assets I said. Stop the corporate crycryptos i said.. man.. This gonna drill on through ain't it..

   Wonder if transaction fees cause a decentralized exchange to be considered a business... or a coin.. does this apply to mining? Any American cloud hashers out there?

[arteleis]

Would this apply to pools?

[arteleis]

Would this apply to pools?

Yes you would need to have decentralize mining as  well but we already have that.

  So pos coins the way to go..

 Remember too they're pushing the legality of aliases to real names and ips etc.. santy clause be making his list and checking it twice.

   Wonder if anon is actually real.  Guess this is a good time to check the effectiveness of the honey pot tor.

  And if a coin is considered a business they will demand all transaction records.  If those can't be supplied. Might be a violation too... failure to comply to financial ref is likely bad.

 Pos might be only safe coin? All pools accepting payment in bitcoin and charging fees would he subject In usa for now.
   
  Is.. Pos? The answer? How will developers be responsible? Could github be ordered to supply dev info?

  Where does this end?

[arteleis]

Is this forum from usa?  Might want to start deleting posts if so.. lol

[BanzaiBTC]

This is the funniest thing I have read lately...

[felment]

Is this forum from usa?  Might want to start deleting posts if so.. lol

There's no point, all posts here get archived automatically at https://bitcointa.lk/

[martismartis]

The Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) today issued two administrative rulings regarding digital currency. And the government has apparently decided to go with the nuclear option.

The first ruling published today relates to the application of FinCEN regulations to a virtual currency trading platform, while the second ruling discusses the application of FinCEN regulations to a virtual currency payment system.

In ruling FIN-2014-R011, FinCEN states that any and all cryptocurrency exchanges must become licensed as a money transmitter including crypto-only exchanges:

"As explained in the Guidance, a person is an exchanger and a money transmitter if the person accepts convertible virtual currency from one person and transmits it to another person as part of the acceptance and transfer of currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for currency."

In ruling FIN-2014-R012, the agency confirms that any and all payment processors are obliged to register as money transmitters, significantly increasing the cost of entry in becoming a digital payments provider.

"As described above, the Company is an exchanger under the Guidance because it engages as a business in accepting and converting the customer’s real currency into virtual currency for transmission to the merchant. The fact that the Company uses its cache of Bitcoin to pay the merchant is not relevant to whether it fits within the definition of money transmitter."

Once labeled a money transmitter, a business wishing to continue operating must pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to become licensed in each of the 50 states. And that’s only the beginning of the regulatory costs and legal hoop jumping.

In addition, companies are required to register with FinCEN, conduct a comprehensive risk assessment of its exposure to money laundering, implement an Anti-Money Laundering Program based on such risk assessment, and comply with various record keeping, reporting and transaction monitoring obligations, in addition to meeting several other requirements.

It is interesting to note that the government classifies Bitcoin as a digital “property” for taxation purposes, but as a digital “money” for regulatory and licensing purposes.

Full Story: http://altcoinpress.com/2014/10/fincen-ruling-us-government-ramps-up-war-on-cryptocurrency/

Bolded red: there is already solution www.multigateway.org
Still Beta version.

[aurtur215]

What happens to exchanges outside the US who do not register with FINCEN?

[arteleis]

The Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) today issued two administrative rulings regarding digital currency. And the government has apparently decided to go with the nuclear option.

The first ruling published today relates to the application of FinCEN regulations to a virtual currency trading platform, while the second ruling discusses the application of FinCEN regulations to a virtual currency payment system.

In ruling FIN-2014-R011, FinCEN states that any and all cryptocurrency exchanges must become licensed as a money transmitter including crypto-only exchanges:

"As explained in the Guidance, a person is an exchanger and a money transmitter if the person accepts convertible virtual currency from one person and transmits it to another person as part of the acceptance and transfer of currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for currency."

In ruling FIN-2014-R012, the agency confirms that any and all payment processors are obliged to register as money transmitters, significantly increasing the cost of entry in becoming a digital payments provider.

"As described above, the Company is an exchanger under the Guidance because it engages as a business in accepting and converting the customer’s real currency into virtual currency for transmission to the merchant. The fact that the Company uses its cache of Bitcoin to pay the merchant is not relevant to whether it fits within the definition of money transmitter."

Once labeled a money transmitter, a business wishing to continue operating must pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to become licensed in each of the 50 states. And that’s only the beginning of the regulatory costs and legal hoop jumping.

In addition, companies are required to register with FinCEN, conduct a comprehensive risk assessment of its exposure to money laundering, implement an Anti-Money Laundering Program based on such risk assessment, and comply with various record keeping, reporting and transaction monitoring obligations, in addition to meeting several other requirements.

It is interesting to note that the government classifies Bitcoin as a digital “property” for taxation purposes, but as a digital “money” for regulatory and licensing purposes.

Full Story: http://altcoinpress.com/2014/10/fincen-ruling-us-government-ramps-up-war-on-cryptocurrency/

Bolded red: there is already solution www.multigateway.org
Still Beta version.

Um... multi gateway is an exchange service that charges fees, and gateway currencies are held on the platform?? The platform owners or developers could be subject?

  What defines ownership of a platform?

   What defines a crypto exchange business?

   Multi gateway is definitely a crypto exchange platform.

  But the law is vague. In decentralized nature, then only nodes in the USA using the platform are at risk? Of course they are pushing for full disclosure starting at the root..

   Counterparty is getting the beats.. nxt ae next?  I've read the new legislation, but frankly it is very vague.. which means leaves open to new legislation and vague rulings.

   Can extradition be possible if in order with anti terror laws? After all, laundering is just the first cause to order, and vague definitions will link to global order terror laws soon enough...

  Make no mistake about it. . This thread and this law.. is only a small part of what to come.

  The question on anonymity being real was a poke at the order the global unseen government has on us all..

  Remember .  Sha256. .  Well who created it?  Interesting laws are now being passed to protect the us governments perhaps.. crown jewel? Bitcoin?

   Also remember.  Any of us movers and shakers, and in particular every single anon coin dev that isn't already an nsa honeypot.. is on a list. .

  And don't think you're personal information can't be linked to mobile gps, registration documents, that your isp, mobile provider, debit cards, visa cards, (prepaid or otherwise) can't be tracked and will not be logged..

  The anon marketing scam, well is scrutiny.. and ultimately forced disclosure..
   
  Satoshi designed bitcoin as 100% anon.  Just use a different address.  Every transaction.  Does anyone really think that nsa software can't break through the shitty poorly designed 'anon' currency transactions.. When they the ones that wrote the initial script? People are too lazy to start a new addy every transaction, and sure as hell wouldn't be marketable..

   Internet aliases will likely be passed as legal representatives of all the 'anon" coins.   I just hope anon practices supercede anon software. . Cuz it'll be like Domino's. .and a blank blockchain  = jail time. Why? Financial disclosure... Anon coins.. we'll they unfortunately don't have records.
   
  Extradition? Well depends on how isis pads the anti terror law legislation being passed and the joining of coalition in areas of vague law in the new global order..

   Many powerful incidents as of late..  but don't think you can hide behind a vpn. . Anon... was created before you were all born.  No matter how many layers in an onion.. can still be stripped to the core.. and thrown on the good old American bbq.

   Especially when that onion was grown in the good old us of a..
 
   What is the fight? Bitcoin may be the enemy of freedom..  The hard fork impending..  sidechains impending.. sunshine and lollipops for alts? Sarcastic understood. How can one truly fight?

    Human rights are being stripped under our noses.. and every crypto that claims to be a business, or corporation or says hi! I'm the ceo of fuck the government is asking for a lashing not only  personally but all the investors..

  Anyone mind to stop calling crypto currencies a business? Or should I go back to my job at 711 and give up..

[Come-In-Behind]

The Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) today issued two administrative rulings regarding digital currency. And the government has apparently decided to go with the nuclear option.

The first ruling published today relates to the application of FinCEN regulations to a virtual currency trading platform, while the second ruling discusses the application of FinCEN regulations to a virtual currency payment system.

In ruling FIN-2014-R011, FinCEN states that any and all cryptocurrency exchanges must become licensed as a money transmitter including crypto-only exchanges:

"As explained in the Guidance, a person is an exchanger and a money transmitter if the person accepts convertible virtual currency from one person and transmits it to another person as part of the acceptance and transfer of currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for currency."

In ruling FIN-2014-R012, the agency confirms that any and all payment processors are obliged to register as money transmitters, significantly increasing the cost of entry in becoming a digital payments provider.

"As described above, the Company is an exchanger under the Guidance because it engages as a business in accepting and converting the customer’s real currency into virtual currency for transmission to the merchant. The fact that the Company uses its cache of Bitcoin to pay the merchant is not relevant to whether it fits within the definition of money transmitter."

Once labeled a money transmitter, a business wishing to continue operating must pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to become licensed in each of the 50 states. And that’s only the beginning of the regulatory costs and legal hoop jumping.

In addition, companies are required to register with FinCEN, conduct a comprehensive risk assessment of its exposure to money laundering, implement an Anti-Money Laundering Program based on such risk assessment, and comply with various record keeping, reporting and transaction monitoring obligations, in addition to meeting several other requirements.

It is interesting to note that the government classifies Bitcoin as a digital “property” for taxation purposes, but as a digital “money” for regulatory and licensing purposes.

Full Story: http://altcoinpress.com/2014/10/fincen-ruling-us-government-ramps-up-war-on-cryptocurrency/

Bolded red: there is already solution www.multigateway.org
Still Beta version.

Um... multi gateway is an exchange service that charges fees, and gateway currencies are held on the platform?? The platform owners or developers could be subject?

  What defines ownership of a platform?

   What defines a crypto exchange business?

   Multi gateway is definitely a crypto exchange platform.

  But the law is vague. In decentralized nature, then only nodes in the USA using the platform are at risk? Of course they are pushing for full disclosure starting at the root..

   Counterparty is getting the beats.. nxt ae next?  I've read the new legislation, but frankly it is very vague.. which means leaves open to new legislation and vague rulings.

   Can extradition be possible if in order with anti terror laws? After all, laundering is just the first cause to order, and vague definitions will link to global order terror laws soon enough...

  Make no mistake about it. . This thread and this law.. is only a small part of what to come.

  The question on anonymity being real was a poke at the order the global unseen government has on us all..

  Remember .  Sha256. .  Well who created it?  Interesting laws are now being passed to protect the us governments perhaps.. crown jewel? Bitcoin?

   Also remember.  Any of us movers and shakers, and in particular every single anon coin dev that isn't already an nsa honeypot.. is on a list. .

  And don't think you're personal information can't be linked to mobile gps, registration documents, that your isp, mobile provider, debit cards, visa cards, (prepaid or otherwise) can't be tracked and will not be logged..

  The anon marketing scam, well is scrutiny.. and ultimately forced disclosure..
  
  Satoshi designed bitcoin as 100% anon.  Just use a different address.  Every transaction.  Does anyone really think that nsa software can't break through the shitty poorly designed 'anon' currency transactions.. When they the ones that wrote the initial script? People are too lazy to start a new addy every transaction, and sure as hell wouldn't be marketable..

   Internet aliases will likely be passed as legal representatives of all the 'anon" coins.   I just hope anon practices supercede anon software. . Cuz it'll be like Domino's. .and a blank blockchain  = jail time. Why? Financial disclosure... Anon coins.. we'll they unfortunately don't have records.
  
  Extradition? Well depends on how isis pads the anti terror law legislation being passed and the joining of coalition in areas of vague law in the new global order..

   Many powerful incidents as of late..  but don't think you can hide behind a vpn. . Anon... was created before you were all born.  No matter how many layers in an onion.. can still be stripped to the core.. and thrown on the good old American bbq.

   Especially when that onion was grown in the good old us of a..
  
   What is the fight? Bitcoin may be the enemy of freedom..  The hard fork impending..  sidechains impending.. sunshine and lollipops for alts? Sarcastic understood. How can one truly fight?

    Human rights are being stripped under our noses.. and every crypto that claims to be a business, or corporation or says hi! I'm the ceo of fuck the government is asking for a lashing not only  personally but all the investors..

  Anyone mind to stop calling crypto currencies a business? Or should I go back to my job at 711 and give up..

I'd like to point out, that you give way way too much credit to the NSA. Yes they have a vast amount of resources and very trained/skilled people, but Private companies have A Lot more very skilled people. The geniuses of this world dont work for the government, when they can make much more money working privately.

Bitcoin has what we call, psuedo anonymity, and it is not or even remotely close to "100% anon". Yes you're correct in that using new addresses for every transaction would hide your tracks(not that effectively though), but seriously, what average person is going to do that? Remember, you're not marketing crypto to the techies, you're marketing it to the average population. Therefore, anon coins fit the bill perfectly, such as Monero. Cryptonote allows for both regular sending(as with bitcoin), and anonymous sending with different mixing levels.

[conspirosphere.tk]

"As explained in the Guidance, a person is an exchanger and a money transmitter if the person accepts convertible virtual currency from one person and transmits it to another person as part of the acceptance and transfer of currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for currency."

So we're all money transmitters now.
All culprits=all innocent.

[2dogs]

Really?  All the activity under Goods, Currency Exchange, etc.?

[Spoetnik]

Hey mouthy argumentative idiots.. ALL OF YOU

I TOLD YOU SO !

Remember me saying regulation is coming non stop for a year and how you all said but but they can't ?

well go stamp your feet and stomp it your room and slam the door i am sure they will protect your coins / service LOL

I am ALWAYS right ..suck it 

[flapman1]

This Spoetnik fellow, although rather overly enthusiastic, is exactly right.  Don't see the problem, there's plenty of safe cryptos.  PandaCoin is one such, boring, safe, thread full of happy pandas, scamming no-one. Dogecoin is in the good list.  Litecoin, lots of the old boys club.  The new lot are trash which needs to be in the rubbish pit.  Just a matter of people shifting BTC away from the garbage coins into the real stuff.  Cryptsy has paid the fee it seems.  Bittrex should have the money after all the scam ICOs they've been involved with.  We'll be fine, less coins and if a scam comes up enter the G-men stage right.  No worries.

Hey mouthy argumentative idiots.. ALL OF YOU

I TOLD YOU SO !

Remember me saying regulation is coming non stop for a year and how you all said but but they can't ?

well go stamp your feet and stomp it your room and slam the door i am sure they will protect your coins / service LOL

I am ALWAYS right ..suck it 

[arteleis]

This Spoetnik fellow, although rather overly enthusiastic, is exactly right.  Don't see the problem, there's plenty of safe cryptos.  PandaCoin is one such, boring, safe, thread full of happy pandas, scamming no-one. Dogecoin is in the good list.  Litecoin, lots of the old boys club.  The new lot are trash which needs to be in the rubbish pit.  Just a matter of people shifting BTC away from the garbage coins into the real stuff.  Cryptsy has paid the fee it seems.  Bittrex should have the money after all the scam ICOs they've been involved with.  We'll be fine, less coins and if a scam comes up enter the G-men stage right.  No worries.

Hey mouthy argumentative idiots.. ALL OF YOU

I TOLD YOU SO !

Remember me saying regulation is coming non stop for a year and how you all said but but they can't ?

well go stamp your feet and stomp it your room and slam the door i am sure they will protect your coins / service LOL

I am ALWAYS right ..suck it 

 Not true.  I believe any American pool for these coins will fit the bill.. and be phase 2.  This is just cutting the hedges..


And Yeh Spoetnik. . Is right. Imagine that.

[2dogs]

Hey mouthy argumentative idiots.. ALL OF YOU

I TOLD YOU SO !

Remember me saying regulation is coming non stop for a year and how you all said but but they can't ?

well go stamp your feet and stomp it your room and slam the door i am sure they will protect your coins / service LOL

I am ALWAYS right ..suck it 

So, what's your next big prediction?

[arteleis]

"As explained in the Guidance, a person is an exchanger and a money transmitter if the person accepts convertible virtual currency from one person and transmits it to another person as part of the acceptance and transfer of currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for currency."

So we're all money transmitters now.
All culprits=all innocent.

  Yep. And will come down to extradition laws to decide on whether or not it ends in the us. If they can jail a canadian for selling pot seeds.. imagine what they can do with cryptos..

  Remember all us companies will be forced to provide full transparency to the irs and fincen.. on every single ip involved.. so all you bittrex pumpers and dumpers..  polo pumpers and dumpers.. they com in for ya.. and cryptsy well.. ya should a followed and noted they already fincen dogs. And paid the grand price to be so.

[arteleis]

Hey mouthy argumentative idiots.. ALL OF YOU

I TOLD YOU SO !

Remember me saying regulation is coming non stop for a year and how you all said but but they can't ?

well go stamp your feet and stomp it your room and slam the door i am sure they will protect your coins / service LOL

I am ALWAYS right ..suck it 

So, what's your next big prediction?

 Let me take that one... The Fed protects their creation called bitcoin.. and cuts the heads off all anon coins and exchanges not complying..  Seems obvious doesn't it?

[2dogs]

Hey mouthy argumentative idiots.. ALL OF YOU

I TOLD YOU SO !

Remember me saying regulation is coming non stop for a year and how you all said but but they can't ?

well go stamp your feet and stomp it your room and slam the door i am sure they will protect your coins / service LOL

I am ALWAYS right ..suck it  

So, what's your next big prediction?

 Let me take that one... The Fed protects their creation called bitcoin.. and cuts the heads off all anon coins and exchanges not complying..  Seems obvious doesn't it?

Hmmm, when you say "protect" bitcoin, I'm guessing you mean: it will be adulterated beyond recognition.
True or false?