Bitcoin Forum

... Yep. The process is already in motion. And everyone that has been "here" for a while -a few months at least- can easily see it as it develops: The Alt currencies bubble is exploding. I know, I know, there are still eternal believers who are holding considerable bags already on every one of the 500+ alts still somewhat alive. They believe so called "established coins" the likes of Black Coin, Dogecoin, Darkcoin, Nextcoin, Vericoin, etc, currnetly trading at multimonths lows (DOGE is one exception, but not for long), are about to rebound. They don't believe they will go "any lower" or, when they have posted such things, change to "not much lower" as the coins continue hitting new lows of many, many months almost daily.

What is going on? Well, it is really very, very simple. Much like the internet bubble in the stock market during the last couple of years of the past century, where companies such as Yahoo and Amazon were given multi-billion dollars valuations from the get go, on pure speculation, ALL alts are just that, remain just that: Pure, raw speculation. No one believes, at this stage, that any of them will ever have a practical use and even if some believe some of them will eventually have one, no one, absolutely no one, is willing to wait what is obvious by now it will be, best case scenario, several years of waiting. And then not only no guaranties of any reward but, logically, something much better would have come up in the meantime.

The alt world is very, very small, money-wise. And very, very big in amount of projects ("coins"). And the money supply is dwindling lower every day while the offer of new projects increases practically every day. These new projects coming up are a mixed bag of the usual run-of-the-mill-copy-paste-hack-job and some really interesting and promising ones. It doesn't matter: There's no money left for any of them. I'll give your 4 recent examples: SEED (was able to collect 7 BTC, most of it from their sponsors, the entire dev team of PINK), BYC (60 BTC, in spite of the significant amount of followers of its controversial developer, IconicExpert) and BRO (276 BTC -the suspiciously collected an extra 100BTC on a surprising "bonus" extension to their very long ICO, offering a 70% discount in the price, so I won't couint those that are more than probably of a known origin to the developers-, in spite of being a project supported for very well know celebrities in the field of poker and being the first project that, upon completion, will allow its holders to actually use the coins immediately for gaming). The developers of BRO were initially expecting to collect up to 15,000 or more BTC. IconicExpert surely was expecting much more than he got and the PINK devs -and everyone else- were expecting also much more than the paltry 7 BTC their sponsored copy/paste/hack/job was able to collect. Why such terrible results when at least 2 of those projects are innovative and full of promise? The answer is as simple as this: There's no BTC available. No liquid money in Alts. Everyone is fully invested in bags that hold losses from 70-90% and higher and expect rebounds to cut those losses somehow.

Well, it will NOT happen. The opposite will indeed occur... it is, as a matter of fact, already in full progress. And will result in further losses, in ALL alts, from 75-95% from current valuations. Why such dire prediction? Think a little bit, ok? The only money available is the one held by the P&D groups of the Prometheus, Black Hand, BobSurplus, etc. They have "cleaned up" the kid's pockets already. They themselves have no more projects where to rein in... One example: They -some of them- have camped on the latest P&D crap: BAY. They bought their big bags and are unloading already, slowly, part of the dump. Not because there isn't people that would otherwise "bitten", but because those people have no money left. So using all those newbie handles, all those hours of pumping, is proving an exercise in futility. The gig is up. Bubsurplus will probably have to go back to peddle in printing toners. Prometheus has no more use for Dan Metcalf and Dan himself will have the IRS on his behind for anything he might have gotten out of his very unethical dealings. Even those that have lined up their pockets with their scams and schemes are left with a bunch of BTC... a very devalued BTC, by the way (but that is another subject altogether). But the main reason, as pointed above, is that there's no practical use for ANY alt currency and none is used for anything. Their only "value" is the one given mostly by robots trading them all day on pure and simple speculation. Try to sell any decent amount of ANY coin, and you will have a quick and expedite glimpse on what the real value of the coin is. I can give you that value right away: Between 75-95% below what the last trade on it was. You can pick ANY "established" coin, they are all in the same situation.

So -and that is the point of this long post-, if you want to salvage something of what you put into this bubble, do it now and do it very slowly or you will lose it all in a hurry. Within a few weeks, maybe before the year ends, maybe shortly thereafter, all those "established" coins are going to be at their real valuation, which will be between a 5% and 25% of the fictional ones they have currently assigned in Coinmarketcap. Just distance yourself from your current involvement and ask your common sense: Is DOGE worth $21 million? why? what can you do with DOGE? And then change the word DOGE for BLACK, VERI, PEER, DARK or ANY of your choice.

Oh I can feel the denial creeping in on this thread as soon as I post. Crazy, will be the adjective of choice, inevitably. OK. Let's see what happens. The timeline may not fit -it probably will take a bit longer to full effect- but surely you wont have to wait too much longer to corroborate just how off mark I was.

This is the way it has been for months now. People were trying to squeeze out last few drops of inexperienced, gullible bloods and take from pockets of new comers until we get to now where there really isn't any easy money left.


Everything said here is correct.


The real difference makers will be professionals and actual value creators doing their own thing and soliciting investors on their own - and rest of current crowd is either going to be in a very difficult financial/legal/personal safety position and will learn their place soon :)

The fact is, pump and dumpers the scammers have ruined 2014 completely and drained the new eager money from all those people who had dreams of becoming rich in few months. They destroyed the scene and are now sitting on stashes of btc that they hope to cash out during the next rise.


Here's the news. Agencies and authorities are watching. They know who the 'players' are. They are perfectly aware of what they can do to these people one way or another. Best yet, they can ruin their chances of profit with their far greater financial and brute force if they really wanted to.

With such people waiting to cash out, you can forget about btc rises until such people are liquidated one way or another. Professional will do their own projects and start their own cryptocurrency fame - and markets will move on to them instead.

I am glad that people have stopped buying ico - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=845494.0

Yeah,it seems we're in a process where different altcoins happen to be not so what they have been supposed to be and it turns out to be just a different story.And now this patters in being more and more recoginisable by more people.

There's complete useless crap and a few others that have a chance at surviving like Counterparty, Bitshares, Ripple, Ethereum and NXT.

It isn't just part of the deception; it is that the whole thing has evolved into, mainly, a giant pile of raw crap. I'll give you an example: What used to be Veriradio. A on-man operation (with tech support by another one) with an "audience" of 25 at the highest point... It consisted of a bit of old folk's music and the soporiferous ramblings of a die hard fan. It is, obviously, a very cheap hobby, right? Well, enter James Lee (Jl777) and he decides that such a thing is an "asset" (he has created a bunch of those) and as such it will not only be given to owners of his others "enterprises", such a NxtVentures, The SuperNET and Jl777 hodl, but also, maybe, traded separately. Son you have something worth absolutely nothing, that now, as an "asset" -because James says so- can become, perhaps, something with some trading value. The old-fashioned hat trick brought up again. But crap, sold as "assets" or otherwise, remains just that: Crap. Take a closer look at all the other "assets" and you will begin to se the profile of quite a picture, I assure you.

Man, you are becomeing a bit radical, if I go to that extremes, the only thing which will have real value for me is FOOD... That assets doesn't have many value now because many of them are future projects, but don't tell me that assets like coinomat which is backed by a company paying dividends from a real bussines doesn't have value either, because if so, any company assets have. The jl777 assets have a rational earnings incoming plan at least.
You are right about many coins doesn't have any value because you can't do anything with them and about all that millionarie IPOS that delivered shit and kept small users bitcoins, but in the end they have more or less the same potential as bitcoin, bitcoin is becoming worthless, I think is the coin which more centraliced is becoming, all new supply is going to scamers hands and big mining companys, because many small users usually throw their bitcoins to shitty IPOS expecting their 10000x return.
The entire alt world is traded by the same group of people and all the money is flowing to the same ands and stoping there, and the remaining money is decreassing every day, like you said, the aren't money left for new IPOS.

Only plattforms which abbandon this altoin poissoned enviroment will have chances to remain here, and this only seems done by nxt, counterparty, bitshares, ethereum, ripple and emunie when it launchs, they are usefull for real world usage and although they worth shitty cents, are the only thing which I can use for something and the essence of decentaliced solutions to real world problems as initially intended by bitcoin.
I always say my favourite choice is nxt, with only 21 bitcoins, they have built an incredible plattaform competing with bitshares millions IPO and similars

In conclusion, the crypto enviroment is becomeing as shitty as fiat, we do it ourself at small scale, the money end controlled by few guys "call them scammers, unethical or genius" but none have forced us to do so.

Bursting?! It's already burst. It's done.
Except for a few exceptional coins and dev teams focused on **real** adoption (Ethereum, Counterparty, NEM and Nectar among them).

My friend Armis told me about alt coins and I'm looking for a few coins to buy. I am setting up for mining bitcoin also. Since you are saying alt coins are bursting, what coins do you recommend for my duckets?

Bookmarking this one. We'll all come back in a year and re-evaluate :D

Heh! That is called averaging down, down and averaging further down into oblivion, commonly known best bussiness practice!
Stop mocking us 8)

PS: bags for sale, cheap coins

finally! sell sell sell :D

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=860033.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=800004.0;all

Check out Ethereum, Counterparty, NEM and Nectar among them - serious teams, serious concepts, serious focus on **adoption** and a serious passion to succeed.

Another good coin that will be a major market mover is BitBay. It has smart contracts that make scamming damn near impossible. Scams are a huge concern lately and this address it head on.  8)

There is only the pump.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=644093.msg9628252#msg9628252

You are obviously interested in a (very expensive) hobby since mining is not profitable at all. So, as a hobby, you can pick and choose on which coin you want to be scammed or otherwise get your money. If you, on the other hand, are a serious investor, first just buy Bitcoin. Keep them. Sell them when you have 15% profit. Then wait for it to come down. Rinse and repeat. Or, buying at current prices, just put them away and don't even think about it for a couple of years or when it is front page in the Wall Street Journal -at which time it will be the signal to sell-. Dont even think in investing in any altcoin... at least until this burst has concluded. Then there will be a few surviving projects perhaps worth of investing in them at 10% their current valuations. Not before. And even them, be very cautious, and whenever you get a 30-50% profit opportunity, dump it, because no matter what the project is, you are being played by the devs/P&D operatos and simply you just cannot win in the long run.

http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/files/2011/11/DOOM.jpg

I have been saying this for some time.. glad guys are seeing what is actually happening !
recognizing we have a shitty situation that continues to get worse is the first step in moving forward.

I'd say the decline started when Doge coin became popular..
It triggered a wave of cloning we never seen before !

Then we went to anon coin gimmicks then IPO style shit coins.

If i can't mine the coin on launch i won't touch it .

so..
I don't think it's dead and there is nothing that can be done.
I think if we had 51% or greater of the Altcoin population admit this stuff is fucked up we can do things to improve the situation.
But first step is admitting there is a problem and *most people refuse to admit it.
They keep crying it's just a phase and things will magically fixz itself later for some magical reason.
NOPE.
Things don't get better for no reason.. if it does it's because because we worked hard to make it better !
And i have been busting my ass working Overtime to make things better as i endlessly get told i am FUD'ing or just jealous i didn't get in on some scam token etc..
AUR is a good example i could have made around 75 grand think on that and i stopped and thought about it and thought i just can't..
I can't take part in scam coins that go against my beliefs and philosophy on this stuff.. i have limits and shit like AUR is the line.
So i have been doing my part and if it gets better it's because guys like me worked our ass off to make things better
and some of us did not jump on the greedy cash grab supporting scam coins for $$$
While other guys worked hard to make things worse..

Can you explain me the difference between mining and buy the coins for the user?
For my understanding:

Mining: 90% of the supply goes to big miners "maybe 200 persons in this forums hunting alts?", specially in the short mining period coins, while small miners only have the false ilusion of earning some coins "I suppose now every coin have huge supply for make this little miners more happy thinking they have a lot..."

IPO: At least you pay the developer of the idea, work->reward, the problems is that there are to many scamers which never give what they promises, they simply launch a clone and talk about features that never come.

So the difference is that you give the money to gpu companys "or asics" or you give it to the developer, I personally prefear to give money to a developer while he works.

I'm done with stupid distribution complains and fairness about distribution, anything in this fucking world is fair, stop criying about it. The rich people will get the most of every new thing which could become valuable, if not, tell me how is the distribution of any coin, bitcoin, litecoin, ethereum, bitshares, nxt... there are some very lucky guys in this coins ofcourse, for example, some early protoshare miners, early bitcoin and litecoin miners and the nxt initial investors, but now that this crypto world is a bit more known, every new opportunity is rapidly taken over by already rich guys. If you complain about IPOs, you should also complain about mining, you have the same opportunity now to get the same fraction of coins buying into IPO launched coins than buying into mineable coins or investing in hardware in order to get some. If you prefear to give your money to the gpu companys and energy companys good for you, but assume that your only problem is that you are a fucking envious and your pride impedes you to see this and give your money to few other early adopters which aren't you "but have been stayed in your same situation"
You say many true things and many shit sometimes too, it's fine you try to save people from scams which doesn't deliver anything, but there are other IPOs which worked fine.
Conclusion: SEND TO FUCK THE WHOLE MINING THING refearing to distribution, if you want to talk about security fine, but with facts.

Barabbas is several months late on this.  ;D

If anything...this post might be an indicator that the bottom of the alt decline is near. We shall see.

More like the fud parade is bursting,  nobody is believing this stuff anymore.

Many of the 2.0 projects have collected a lot of money, and they are looking to promote themselves heavily in the near future. Counterparty has GEMS and Byrne, BitShares has VOTE/Peertracks and a huge marketing push aimed at mainstream, NXTTY has a mobile app with a referral program, Ethereum has over 10 million dollars that they will use to promote themselves and educate a fleet of coders, ribbit/bitBay/openbaazar are trying to become the next ebay/amazon, list goes on and on..

The next crypto bubble will rise to the refrain of "Bitcoin 2.0"

i was always wondering why should a dev who has collected millions actually release a product?
they dont need to work any more...

Don't you guys love these types of threads. I especially loved the threads about the "Bitcoin Ponzi falling" or "Bitcoin dying", and etc, that were all made years ago.

Most people are honest, genuinely want to contribute and value their reputation. This space attracts many scammers because people are greedy and rush to invest. But this space also attracts many idealistic, extremely intelligent people who honestly just want to change the world for the better. A few million dollars is great and motivates everyone, but being the next Steve Jobs or Sergey Brin is even greater and motivates the best among us.

you are right
but i think any dev who wants to be honest would at least(!) use escrow.

the only way to go if you have ideals is when the dev has to mine his coins himself; i'd accept a few blocks of a head start but anything else just makes me feel he doesnt believe his own project will be a success.

Alts are still just arriving on the scene.  Yeah it is easy to be distracted with all the extras lying around but there is more exciting experimentation on the way.  Get ready for action the show is just starting.  

man, you're pretty late.
The shit is worthless already. Can't be worse now.

Ok thanks, ill look into a few other coins mentioned here as well. Appreciate your time,

I feel like in five years people will look back and wonder how in the hell there ended up being only two actually used Cryptocurrencies.

Bitcoin and Doge......

I really think Doge is the crypto with nine lives, it will never go away and will eventually win.

So Ethereum collected what.... 13.000 BTC? (edit: 23,804 BTC)
SuperNet was uh... 5.000 BTC?
And even that shady BlockNet thing got 2000 BTC last time Iv'e read.

If that's an illiquid market, then I want to see the liquid one.


Are you possibly speaking just about yourself?
NXT assets did great - I have 500% from the last half year on average on them. Check out their mining assets - some still do 10% returns on a weekly basis!
Maybe you shouldn't have limited your view to strange new coin IPOs.


Think about it this way: Microsoft just recently bought Minecraft for $2.5 BILLION! Why? Because of the active community - it is next to impossible to build this artificially. But it's worth ... well... billions!
Now you can about make an comparison to Doge - and if $20M is overvalued.

Else I can only talk about NXT - but if you look at the ecosystem around it... the services, the community and all the active devs... it is insane that it's valued only $20M. Any 1 year old startup business with those achievements would trade at 10 times that at bare minimum.

The difference is the crowd stopped arguing with me and now did a 180 and agree with me.. the new trend LOL

I recall most of you out there hanging around saying i was wrong making poor excuses for bad behavior.
and now your all right along with me.. except for the IPO coin boys, they are die hard bag holders who will defend their shit until they can cash out of course.

I find it pretty damn funny i was by myself for almost 2 whole years every single day as i battled ALL OF YOU here
and the bloody abuses and trolling i took from 99% of you all to come worming up beside me pretending you were with me all along is priceless. lol

i can tell you one thing i will never ever forget who was there all along, and that is not very many of you ;)
kelsey for example was one of the sane and reasonable level headed persons here ALL ALONG and never jumped around supporting gimmicks and trends..
and worse defending them  *poorly

the majority of you all here ARE THE CAUSE of the problem itself and now you want to hang around jumping on the shitcoins are bad band wagon R O F L .  ::)

You shit your bed guys now sleep in it.. i had planned to stick around to say, I told you say 24/7 every day and enjoy it
but you know what ? screw it.. enjoy your mess  LOL

This scene is like a fresh new 18 year old Porn star that is 24 now and looks like she's 34 and has to have yet another meat-curtains cosmetic reduction surgery LOL

I think people rationalize ICO as profitable under the notion: "he who is in first reaps the most" but of course it almost never works that way.


 Most ICO / IPO coins fall below their initial prices and never recover.   Crypti did close to $450,000 or 750 BTC (when BTC was around $600 in July) and currently it is pretty much a dead coin.   We saw this repeat, more recently, with Craigscoin too.


I think NXT popularized the IPO but the difference was NXT was giving out 5% of the total coin for a measly 1.5 BTC (at the time this was like $130?).  If you had 5% of any coin then you're bound to make money unless the coin itself becomes worthless but we know in cryptos that even turd coins often get six figure capitalizations.

Come on UP, you know it was capped at 1 BTC and BCNext only asked for "a few satoshis" to determine the distribution.


And Spoetnik, you're account is only 17 months old? Which one of your account s have you been using for 2 years?  ;D ;D



It is Nxt's 1st birthday today too, no happy messages to give?  :'(

also altcons where not even public pnd's 2 years ago.. all started in march....after btc fall and alts boomed..

back in march you had a few alt's vtc, etc that where solid, then came the alts, and the frenesy and the cash... people bought asics and fucked scrypt, people got greedy and made stupid services like nh/wh/and rig renting,

alts are a real scam for con artists.., its anonymous then can copy/paste and repeat and never get cought.

everything was tried... remember H2o, cleanwater, water this , water that ?

who wants to call the so called fundations to see how many satoshis if ANY was sent ? 0 , none, niet, nada....

its all about getting hopes on a project to gather the most cash you can.

if you look at super somthing, its a coin by the mt gox guys.. and you all financed it... again and again

someone said " If you repeat an act and expect different results, you must be crazy " well, not that wording but you get the drift.

so 2 years ago, all was fine, all troubles started when stupid idiots paid 50k pre paid to guys that actually didnt have any asic done, and in turn paid chineese manuf to make them.

Look at the KNCDUMPS etc 10 mill a day.... think thats not hurting BTC market ? they have thousands of rigs mining and dumping, and YOU PAID FOR IT, not them.....

Western Greed was abused by Eastern Math ;)

Miners are one of the biggest reasons for the endles scams in 2014. How many times have we heard that the reason for all these weekly candy scam coins is "miners need to pay off their equipment". Come on, how many months of peddling dogecoindarkdark crap coins does it take to pay off a 200 dollar video card? It's ridiculous and is just plain raw greed, the biggest mistake I made in January was deciding to pool my initial investment money in "investing" in alt coins versus just buying some mining hardware where I could at least break even by looking at coinwarz.com for the most profitable shitcoin of the day to mine.

That being said though I still have faith a few alts will survive next year, it's only been a year and nothing blows up overnight. If anything all these endless scams will drive people towards putting their money in the good coins and just waiting like good children. If you can't sit on your hands for 6 months to make a profit, you need to get out of any investment game.

There's no reason talking anything of sense with Spoetnik...

And correct! Mining coins make up the large majority of scams on here.

Thanks Barabbas for this thread! It's eye opening as always :-))) and hopefully the naive, wannabe be rich new crypto investors will start their journey into this market (and inevitable disappointments) by reading your fists post.

As for the prospects of digital currencies general, there are a very few concepts that due to their use case will survive. For example, Ethereum must have a place in technology world because it provide users with solutions to real business problems. Ethereum's smart contracts are useful in solving many real life business problems from autonomous companies to decentralize crowd funding -  in contrasts with the +500 BTC/LTC clone that are completely useless.
There are a few other interesting experiments that could be successful. Lately I am very interested in these projects

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=864895.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=854280.0

This type of ideas that solves a real business problem in my opinion could be survivals. There is no chance any altcoins could compete with Bitcoin, and I expect that the surviving alt currencies will be specializing to areas like AI, IoT or recruitment.


 

It is about to be quite worse actually. In a hurry. Just watch.

Very interesting observations, albeit short sighted I'm afraid: Even if those projects would have collected those amounts, which is VERY arguable, for AS YOU KNOW AND i HAVE THOROUGHLY EXPLAINED, IN MANY CASES IF NOT IN ALL, THE RIGHT HAND PAYS THE LEFT HAND, even if the amounts were legitimate -which they aren't- the liquidity available is not unfinishable. Those would have been the recipients of basically what was left. So there's NO MORE, ok? Hence all the rest of ICO's, some of them very interesting, collect nothing or next to nothing.

The NXT assets: So you are a long time investor and  you are still doing great? Like how great? Because those investing in golden boy James Lee's ventures, including NXT ventures, are doing quite poorly or late... and bound to do even worse. So maybe you were lucky to get in for next to nothing, congrats. They were luckier than you... you know, the ones that got the initial distribution of NEXT, the 73 lucky ones? That doesn't change the fact that the coin has recently lost half its value... and in my opinion, is about to be halved again... or worse.

Finally, your most interesting point, the purchase of Minecraft by Microsoft. Good point but not applicable: You see, 20 million people across the planet actually use Minecraft many times a day, every single day. Not one, not a single one, can buy practically anything with Doge. Not a single one. You see the difference? Instead of using Doge they are... guess what? playing Minecraft. I know you get the gist bof it. Of course users have a very significant and quite specific value, be it Alibaba or Google or YouTube or Instagram or Twitter or Facebook. NOT the DOGE or any other alt or crypto community. There's nothing to be used, nothing whatsoever.

And therein lays the problem... and your otherwise very interesting observations.

As for the actual usage of Next platform for real business, please do not tell me what can be done with the platform but actually what IS BEING done with it. I don't follow that too closely but I get a lot of otherwise unqualified comments to the absurdite and inefficiency of it all. Those bearer of such opinions, must be quite wrong, right? Exactly which business have you created on that platform and how successful have you been in this year?

I am not sure to be honest and mainly I am interested in the concept instead of implementation details at this stage. I am not sure that the two particular coins that I quoted will be successful at all, what I tried to say that coins that address such use cases like AI or IoT, and solves problems could be the survivals.

The way I see it, as you know, Ethereum is already owned by the real world, not by crypto alts enthusiasts. If the tech is usable, IBM or others will implement it along their blockchains and profit from it the old fashioned way. Let me be quite clear about this: NO DECENTRALIZED MARKET OF ANY KIND WILL BE ALLOWED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT ANYWHERE.. Decentralized smart contracts? I don't know about those. It could work but they solve only one part of a very complex operation that includes VERY centralized import/export laws and taxes and transportation. So yes, obviously the tech is valuable but of no real possibility of actual use in crypto, so why even bother: First get people to use crypto; then get those people to use alts instead of Bitcoin -good luck on that one-, and then tell me why would people choose to use Whatevercoin rather than Bitcoin... mind you, ALL tech will be open source and therefore available equally to Ethereum than to PESA...

Those two links that you have posted, number one are as far as they can possibly be from any even partial understanding as a use case scenario, from... well, anyone, let alone the people in crypto. They are software and hardware products. I don't know how advance the tech behind it or how marketable in a price to cost basis. That is a very different -and much more conventional- approach at your average business. I read, for instance, that one of the applications one of the guy's is selling is the ability to open a garage door for a cost of $5.00 per year... that is simply ridiculous. The tech exists, in many varieties, already implemented and distributed the world over and for much less than a subscription of $5.00 a year. Completely ridiculous. If you are going to come up with a "conventional" business to support a crypto alt project, first sell me the pen of the business with facts, figures, demographics, float of hit the pavement sellers (real ones, the ones you actually have to pay salary AND commissions) and budget for the whole shebang, otherwise you are just jerking off and not talking viable business.

The AI project and the impulses than somehow bring commissions or fess to the holders, I frankly did not get it. And you know the old adage: If you cannot explain clearly your business proposal in 3 minutes to anyone so they fully understand, you don't have a viable business.

As you know, having a viable business in the new trend behind crypto alts. BRO just brought it up and I still believe it can be a great idea with immediate use for the coins and guaranteed -well, somehow- increased valuation ... IF (huge IF) the underlying business is successful. They have come with a full blown online casino. Good luck with that. It isn't precisely a virgin field. Why would users go there and not to any of the about 3000 other already established casinos online, all of which accept bitcoin -and some other coins in some cases-? It will, naturally, depend on two things: promotion/ incentives to players and quality of the overall experience. It is quite difficult to break the habit of otherwise satisfied customers to try new environments. Especially in gambling/gaming. A lot of factors play a role, not the least of which is perceived "luck". Can it be done? Of course it can. But it a harrowing proposition.
Therefore, they collected 275 BTC. Not bad for just an idea... supported by a dozen celebrities in the World Poker Tour. And, IMO, as good as a collection as anyone else is ever going to get in crypto... unless the right hand is paying the left hand, of course.

Let me think a bit about what you said :-))) because it make a lots of sense ... so I would have to re-read what the IBM chief scientist says about building blockchain based applications for the Internet of Things. Before I do my research and re-read all the materials here is how I see this (and it is very possible that I will change my mind after thinking a bit more about it).

As for the IoT, I think you are absolutely right, asking $5 subscription fee for opening a garage door is ridiculous and doesn't make sense, but I think what IBM and these few IoT coins say is, that the value is in selling the hardware services on a tokenized system (e.g. what VISA builds too by recognizing the value of the digital currency concept). I think IBM is interested because a blockchain enabled hardware could take payments and it seems to me IBM suspects even more value in the hardware management capability of the technology, namely that the peer to peer network allows secure hardware management. I could be wrong, but I think the fact that IBM see a business opportunity indicates that the tech solves an existing business problem. IBM want to charge $5 per year not for opening the garage door but for providing a system that allows you to manage your devices on the network. For example, assign the permission to anyone, while you are on a holiday. Let say I am having a holiday in Cyprus and I get a phone call that a repairman needs access to my garage in the UK, then I can assign that permission via a simple peer to peer application because the security is handled via the blockchain, and then the repair man can open the door using his android phone. Before he opens the door, to allow the repairman in, I can temporary disable the alarm system that is managed on the blockchain too. I think IBM is excited about the technology, because it allows the management and inter-operability for all home automation and industrial devices.

As for the AI, I like the idea, not because AI related services could be sold on the blockchain, such services could be sold everywhere, but the AI decision making process could be orchestrated on the blockchain. To describe a simple scenario, there are regional meteorology stations which gather data for wider spectrum forecast and a blockchain/smart contract system could be the platform to manage the forecast decision making process.

The BRO gambling use case definitely make sense, it will be interesting to see how it goes.

There's (another) terrible misconception in all the potential ideal uses of crypto, smart contracts, etc. Most devs are focusing on ways in which the customer will pay for the goods or services, the provider/seller will get their payment and there are no returns, since the operation can't be cancelled.

Well, anyone who has ever procured a product or service very well knows that returns (and chargebacks) is a (huge) part of the business. You simply cannot eliminate them... nor you would want them because if there's a sure-fire way to a fail business is a string, even a small one, of unsatisfied customers. That's the absolute no-no on ANY business (legal ones, that is).

So you have, for the most part, geeks that have never worked a day in their lives, that have never had any money nor purchase anything other than a playstation, making decision about how successful business should be conducted in crypto that merchants have not even heard of and are already extremely wary of selling in BTC because, to preserve their minimal profits, they have to pay the fees -more than credit cards- to BitPay... It is a lose-lose-lose and then LOSE proposition. And one more reason why this hobby of nut miners is NEVER going to come forward in a significant manner in many years to come.

IBM, on the other hand, would implement the parts of the tech that are innovating and usable in their suite of products and services already commercialized.

And by the way, through the internet and with very basic applications, you can already do all of that that you mentioned, from your Ipad. From opening doors to set temperatures, record programs on your DVR, the temperature of your fridge and a lot more... all for free. Already. What was the use case for those, you were saying? It seems to me first generation when, the real world is already it is 7th or later iterations of the same thing... without additional costs.

Yes it is, but when all these alts are sold down to 0, where are these people going to put their money next? XRP?

You are selling ANON Gen 2.0 platforms like NXT waaaay short...
When running on 100% anon crypto-currencies they will be unassailable.

You think LE will be able to shut down 1,000,000 NXT clients with the full blockchain...
When a little program like BitTorrent brought the music/movie/porn business to it's knees? 
(Despite Draconian measures by LE and the courts).

So you write off infinitely more powerful blockchain tech flooding the pipeline...
Because it's been abused to pull off ultra-sophisticated, centralized scams like BitShares and Etherium.

You need to get away from BitCoinTalk... and see what True Believers are building out there.

Like anything else. Some coins will make it and become something and others will die and fade away. Do your own research and invest/daytrade what you think will make money. I do think 90% or more will end as fails tbh.  :-\

I stand firmly on the other side of the fence. I believe that scamcoins will eventually die and a few front-runners will emerge. This is what I think bagholders are counting on. They're backing their horses right now. We'll know the winners and losers by about 2017 onwards.

I take an extremely long-term view of crypotocurrencies. One year is NOTHING in technology terms. All that's happened in 2014 is people rushed into cryptos after a week of Litecoin madness in November 2013 and this drove the market into a feeding frenzy that lasted into early 2014. Cryptos started getting pumped out for those who missed out on the profits of Litecoin madness. Dogecoin was one of those coins. It was not the cause of the current flurry of ALTs. It started after a mad mad week in November last year following an edition of The Keiser Report (they started talking about BTC being gold and LTC being silver). So (spoetnik), blame Litecoin madness, not Dogecoin.

Here's to hoping that by the end of 2014 all the get rich quick brigade lose interest because of the current slump and things settle down. Then let the technology and services mature over the next few years, and the rubbish will get left by the side of the road. Once the ecosystem is consumer grade it'll start making inroads.

IMHO, the biggest hindrance right now is wallets and syncing. Until online wallets are proven secure, and accepted by users as such, QT wallets have to be used. QT wallets are definitely not consumer grade! Imagine grandma trying to recover her lost DOGE with only a wallet.dat file (and she probably wouldn't have even backed that up in the first place!!).

There's definitely a long way to go yet. A long way.
:D

Nxt platform is being used by some interesting projects, for example, funding a game development "Lyth", instead of using other platforms as kickstarter. There is also being used by coinomat, a real bussines which pays weekly dividends and which is in expansion, it's also used for multigateway, which is the most secure way to trade bitcoins at the moment, also used by nxtty, the messaging app for android and IOS, and many other assets which although not give beneffits short term, is where people who believe in crypto invest for get this ideas developed, and correct me, but this ideas are much more serious than all the shit posted in this forum, all the james assets which you critic are at least in development "I'm personally not investing a lot in this assets, because I think that for when they start paying dividends, the nxt value could be much higher and I will never recover the nxt ammount invested", but I bought shares in other projects for which I don't even expect to get dividends but help fund them which would beneffit the whole system, for example the mentioned game or the consensus asset for make a scientific study of POS in nxt.
So as you can see, is being used currently for interesting things, and the potential uses are MUCH more, but for now, it only have one year and is doing most interesting things than bitcoin... when I download the most advanced bitcoin wallet, the most I can do is SEND COINS "incredible :O " and is 5 years old...
I'm not going to talk about other features which are coming or already in use, but there are many other example of things going on, when people realices that if they buy nxt they will get a bigger share than if they buy bitcoin price will go up very fast, but there is to much people trolling nxt, I personally don't mind the price yet, is a plattform very usable independently of the currency value.

Make me know your points against my thoughts for further discussion :)

People should be aware of the alternate agenda here.
These guys despise coins they cannot mine.
ALWAYS keep in mind the miners have been fleecing from day one - and make no mistake it was/is hugely lucrative providing you have access to the  hardware. I know one guy who in less than 18 months has made over 2500 btc from mining alts. Thats just one guy remember.  He was incredibly fortunate to have access to many networked computers through his job - and he's not alone. Many of them do this after bringing the potential earnings to their real world bosses.  The solo miner or investor  has no chance against them. 
For some reason having your own money printing press has never been deemed a scam.  ::)  Many of these coins are 90% mined within 3-6 hours. Miners are always the biggest dumpers.  Their closed shop has been broken down (only a little mind you) and their not happy.  These guys project themselves as benevolent can do no wrong angels. But just like the scammers they have their eye on the $$$ and their aim is the end of pre mined coins.

PS
Barabass and Spoetnik are on someones payroll. But its up to them to prove me wrong/

whilst Im here

Spoetnik is a really nasty piece of work. A sorry excuse for a human being who often dishes out death threats. Anything this piece of filth says really has to be ignored. The jury is still out on Barabbas.

Would you go as far as to say Etherum is part of this series of gimmick coins?

I completely agree with you chicken65, this blaming to not mining coins going going on in this forum is in part obvious given the fact that is the birthpace of the miner mentality, I don't understand how the fuck they say that mining is fair... for who? For people which have access to hardware and cheap energy? Many nonsenses in their statements, they should admit mining is as unfair as any other thing... Each day I'm believing more seriously that for a system progress it needed a group of very rich guys with the most interest in the success of the system. You know what happen when you give things for free and to everyone, there will be to many dumbs which will fuck up the whole system... Specially in the crypto world where 90% is here for quick profit

I'd be very surprised if you did, it's unadulterated gobbledygook.

Cheers

Graham

About time people started catching on.

The problem remains the same: there needs to be a REASON for people to use your stupid coin. Otherwise its just a digital POG.

No. And I believe I have posted already somewhere that I believe Ethereum is owned, mainly, by conventional corporation which expect the final tech to provide applications that they can use in conventional tech.

Again the point here (the points you make, actually) is that there's NOTHING of any conventional value that in any significant way, is traded on any of those initiatives. It's next which buys nxt ventures, which can be sold for BTC which can be used to buy next. going on circles and going nowhere. You cannot actually trade them for dollars oRr any other fiat or perceived holder of wealth such a precious metals or stones. And those "assets" give you "dividends" that are, again, next. Or Atomic. Or supernet. Or any other shit... no business is generated. No traffic/advertising, no sales of any goods or services outside of overpriced crypto-friendly shit no one in the real world wants. It's like playing with marvels that go from one pocket to another and never serve any purpose than the actual playing with them. Children's games.

You will get miexed views about this thread, but yes it is happening. Not necessarily for the good or the bad, as they were always good for experimentation.

You're saying all crypto - including potential blockchain 2.0 stuff -- is useless? Have you seen Ethereum's mist demo?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgNjs_WaFSc

I was wondering what all the motives might be here. There are at least two things going on at the same time:
1) trade activity in crypto is definitely down significantly
2) a lot of trading activity has been redistributed away from mega miners to devs via ICOs

the bubble busted already.

now it is the final capitulation

The True believers, just like the non-true believers are building basically shit that allows them to get out of the garages of their parents  before they hit 40 and actually without having worked a single day in their lives, that's what they are doing in Crypto for the most part.

So you believe that Law Enforcement gave a rat's ass if children shared songs, books and movies, including porno, over Bittorrent? Really? Well, if they would have, none of those would be in existence today. And, not only that, all their  developers would be rotting in jail right now. You, I presume, just read the shut down of Silkroad 2, which was bragged about as  impossible to happen because if anything happened to Defcom, the network will self protect and go dar temporarily and relocating, haven't you? Well, the guy is in jail, his money taken and Silkroad 2 is history. That wasn't anonymous enough, you said? You understand that is like saying "she's not virgin enough", right? Either you are or you aren't, right?

OK now take off your geek hat and use your brain for once, ok? You want to buy cheap cocaine from this guy in Colombia that has been brought to your attention by a friend in Australia. You live in Japan? So you contact guy-in-Colombia, you both deposit he the coca you the BTC and you just wait for the coca to be delivered to you by UPS under the wrapping of Juan Valdez Cafe. And you go on with your party and on to the next "transaction", right? And you laugh wild and wide long after teh effects of the coca have disappeared because you were so ahead of the Law that you are the untouchable Geek, right? Oh wait, what is wrong with that picture? Nothing, you say? Coffee -or any and all items, regardless which, go through customs like nothing happens? Well, let me tell you the REAL scenario: Long before you actually send the invitations to the party, as soon as you open the package, you have the police throwing down your parents home's door and putting you in the back seat of a black and white before dumping you in a jail in which a rather enormous and exceptionally endowed African American man is going to become your protector from day one, ok?

Oh, you are not interested in drugs because your "thing" is child porno and that comes to you through the computer, so "no one can ever find out", because it's so anon, right? WRONG AGAIN. Shortly after you order from the guy in Canada, and when you start masturbating to the new material, both the guy in Canada and you are arrested and thrown in the same jail with the same African American because, it happened, several international law enforcement agencies had been circling that specific child porno ring and have had agents on the inside -just like in Silkroad 2- for months, if not years. And they just caught you, the Canadian and 87 others in 32 countries of the world, all being thrown in similar cells with identical African Americans of exceptional endowment.

You really are so simple that you believe ANY degree of anonymity is going to protect your from law enforcement when you break the law? Havent you read what happened, just happened to a couple that thought just like you?

And, by the way, you got it all wrong... again. Bittorrent never put on any knees any industry, musical, movies or otherwise. As a matter of fact it became a very efficient promotion for the abusive distribution of music, mainly, and movies. Studios and music houses continue making more money than they have ever made. Thanks to Bittorrent and the likes, NOT the opposite. The one which kind of changed the whole think was iTunes, you might remember. Because in the age of ones and zeroes, CDs, obviously became almost as obsolete as the 8-track tapes. And in the times of you eat whatever you want and nothing you don't, you cannot simply force people to buy a full album when 99% only want to own or have or listen to a couple of the songs in that album. The music industry did not want to evolve and adapt and were forced to... in a very friendly way, nothing shocking; the movie industry learned the lesson and started a distribution way that is up with the times, and continuously evolving. It was hard to say goodbye to all those billions of dollars in DVD sales, but the alternatives proved equally rewarding... and then some. No one put them on their knees. At all.

Crypto is not changing anything. Not yet. Crypto (that's BTC for you, and ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ELSE), is pointing towards a technology that "may" have an actual, practical use in the real world. The jury's still out on that one. It looks like it could be useful but it is years from any significant implementation, best case scenario. Meanwhile, just a gimmick to try to bring to the conventional fold a bunch of disenfranchised potential customers, so some merchants pretend to "play ball". And pay BitPay just like they pay Visa, Discover or Mastercard... because they don't trade in crypto, they just pretend they do. They cannot afford  -no one can-, to trade in crypto.

That's the "real" state of crypto. And alts, for any intent or purpose, aren't even in that scenario. Nor will. Ever.

If by "final capitulation" you mean we are still between 70 and 95% from the bottom, depending on the coin, I agree with you.

bubble bursting my ass.

WE ARE ON THE UP AND UP!
 ;D

Ehmm... I think that is great then, is a plattform where the prices are set in their own currency, isn't needing the dollar... for me that is fine. Also is tradeable by the same things as bitcoin is, I don't know why you say you can't trade them to dollars  ??? and there are one gateway from anon96 to trade it for silver. Are you complaining about bitcoin assets companys paying dividedns in bitcoins? Would you be more happy if instead of buying nxt to pay dividends, the asset issuers buy multigatewayBitcoins or coinoUSD for pay you in that kind of coin? I really don't see your points.
Isn't nexxty a real app outside the crypto world? Or the game which is in development? Or Jinn? There is also the freemarket running on nxt, there you can buy goods "there isn't many yet, ok..."
Don't try to compare a one year coin with fiat, of course it looks like a kids game then, even bitcoin looks like that...
Which uses have bitcoin which nxt doesn't?

I am not complaining, I am stating facts. And the fact is that only bitcoin, and none of the alts, none whatsoever, is making some very small, tiny, inroads in the world economy. And, like I say, no one is able -due to volatility- to accept even bitcoin, let alone any alt. If you use bitpay, like ALL merchants that accept bitcoin do, you are not really using crypto. Or bitcoin. You are using a conventional creditcard that happens to be named bitpay. And yes, you cannot buy ANYTHING with your crypto, unless you pay the pied piper (BitPay). So we are not progressing. At all. It isn't a complain, it is a fact.

But Alts specifically, arent even in the game. the nxt freemarket is as much a joke as the Unbreakablecoin "digital ebay" market. It's actually non-existant. And it ain't getting any better neither. And yes, as long as dividends are being paid in "assets" they are not "real" dividends, it's a gimmick, the left hand paying the right hand with the same marbles over and over and over again, while no profit of any kind is generated and any new money comes in the form of crypto from speculators that will soon leave the game -as they have- after being burned and taken for a ride by the unexcrupulous devs. Alts are not only not progressing, not only not bringing anything -yet- in the form of technology, they are actually self destructing. The shitcoins, of course, and, at the same time, those that at one point showed some promise. Like NXT, for instance.

But we are not going to agree on this, of course. And it is OK and even good. Time -crypto-time goes at hyperspeed so hopefully we both will be still alive when alts self destroy completely or almost completely- and will determine who was right. It's just that I have read today some "coin" which offer to provide the user the ability to open one's garage door from one corner of the world to another and that has been possible on the iphone for at least the last three editions. For free. This genius considers it reasonable to charge $5 a year subscription for the service. It is really hilarious...

Ok, I'm starting to see your point once you have said that even bitcoin is unviable for merchants now, you are right, this market is very volatile.
When I told you that being paid in assets as mtwateway bitcoins or coinousd is because this assets are BACKED by either bitcoin "still doubts about his value" or USD "seems valuable yet", aren't this real dividednds? If this money comes from crypto enviroment is another thing, for the moment is where more easy is to make a bussines withouth legal complications, but once real companys which earn the money outside the crypto world start paying dividedends, there will be a new money flow, but this is very slow due to laws...
I don't know how much joke is freemarket or openbaazar, but if I understand right how they works seems like good ideas and very difficult to shutdown, although there are many cons against this kind of markets, is a good advance for people which want freedom, although like I said, there will be consequences and we will need to take responsabilities, there is an interesting disscussion going on here: https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/could-a-black-market-exist-on-nxt-platform/msg134260/?topicseen#msg134260
I don't know if alts will die, but there isn't any reason for bitcoin to survive being better alternatives out there, I know is the first and the one with more money inside, but assuming this ammount of money is negligible for real world economy, this situation can change from night to morning...
I agree with you about many new forced uses for the blockchain and shitty IPOS, I stoped investing any money in this new coins long time ago.

Anyways, seems you doen't believe in crypto and are expecting it at the same height as fiat money which have been working for hundreds of years, if you doesn't have any fault in cryptos, I advice you to run away and left believers as me lose all our money "or whatever we invested"

Before the launch of the ethereum platform I am selling my ether at €1 per coin. For more information visit www.kryptobrokers.com or email us at info@kryptobrokers.com

No I'm not saying anything of the sort, not even inadvertently via Google translate. My statement offers no grounds for your implausible reformulation; the resolution of the anaphora (the “it” in my statement) is both grammatically and contextually unambiguous, nailed down by the inclusion of the pertinent quote.

Your personal enthusiasm for Ethereum appears to be prompting you to make significant errors in reasoning.


Cheers

Graham

I think our conversations highlights the biggest issue with those tech altcoins: they can't even explain the business case, so investors are quite understandably ignore them.

That particular IoT use case is lot more what your iPad application offers which is only provides high level controls. I understand from end user viewpoint only the high level control matters (i.e. open your garage door), but in order to actually execute your hardware there are a lot more happening behind the screen which hardware manufacturers and integrators need to deal with . I believe that's why IBM is super excited about having a simple infrastructure that potentially could manage security, provisioning, configuration, upgrade, payment and end user interface aspect of the hardware. Yo see, your iPad manage only one element of the aforementioned few, the end user interface.  

I wouldn't be be surprised if with IBM's push the blockchain and peer to peer based Internet of Things market will be a multibillion dollars business very-very soon, bigger than the whole Bitcoin today - excluding the payment part of the technology which is even a bigger potential market than hardware management. So never mind the payment side of the tech, but if  only one Japanese car manufacturer pick up the technology to use its hardware management, connectivity, security features then the gross market of the tech will exceed Bitcoin's, and I have no doubt IBM will find the way convince manufacturers to use the technology. Until this ecosystem is finalized, there will be plenty of opportunity for the IoT coins (that's why I started to chat with the BitBay people in the first place) as for mainly price reasons not everybody in this business willing to deal with IBM.

The big issue is, what you have pointed out very correctly that these coins can't even explain the use case, business, opportunity and how investors' could make money from it, and therefore most of them probably will be in the altcoin graveyard without making any impact.

2015 will be the death of Crypto as we once knew it.

It probably will be. Bitcoin will be still there, in my opinion a very few, perhaps 1-2 blockchain based, smart contract solutions will be there too, but yes the +500 BTC/LTC clones, even perhaps not clones like NXT will be gone ... as Barabbas pointed out there is absolutely no use of those coins.  All coins will be disappear that has no use.

Don't forget about the trolls/speculators - bitcoin is monetary sovereignty - ethereum is social sovereignty. Bitcoin is an application of the decentralized consensus at scale technology - ethereum is a platform for the creation of countless apps leveraging that technology. Not by a close-knit group of techno-elite but by everyone.

I disagree. You're talking about a one off event like the Litecoin and similar altcoins story. The Litecoin story doesn't indicate the altcoins have any places in business (see the arguments about the uselessness of altcoins), but proves that the 1637 Dutch tulip mania can be repeated. Altcoins had their run. A bubble had been created during this run, the scams took the money, but the bubble naturally once must be bursted an then it will be gone.

coins that still have pump and dump value will not die. They have their usecase.

You are quite right that the corrupted banking system, organizations like JP Morgan makes decentralized digital currency a very appealing proposition for millions worldwide, but Bitcoin is perfectly capable to address the issues of the existing banking system and FIAT, and the issue has nothing to do with the rest 500 BTC clones altcoins, including Litecoin.

And of course greed and willing to take risk to become rich (the very same things that caused the tulip mania in the first place) have everything to do with the altcoin bubble. The 1637 dutch tulips and 2014 shitcoins were both valuable at one point because an investment, "get rich quick" bubble was created around both commodities.

Mark my words, This is just the beginning of the cryptocurrency rush.

I am sure they are perfectly suitable to be a P&D target, but their are no buyers anymore and there won't be new buyers. The historical data indicate that no altcoin can keep never mind increase its value, therefore it is not a good investment target. It was great, it attracted lots of investment one stage, they have their tun, but that's it.

Just reading the bullshit in this thread is like watching Fox Five news...

If we can estimate that there are around 1million Bitcoin users globally and most don't even own 1 single Bitcoin(according to a survey done here on bitcointalk). What does that tell you?

That tells you that the people with serious money aren't in the game yet, or not enough of them are. If you guys count these small million dollar marketcaps and etc, as Bubbles, then you need to rethink. Most people don't know Bitcoin exists, they don't own any Bitcoin, and aren't inclined to atm. When the average joe starts rushing to buy Bitcoin and/or altcoins, then that's when things really begin.

As of right now, you're all early in the game.

That's absolutely correct, and highlights as well why you are completely wrong: people with serious money having serious money because they know how to invest, and people with serious money, plus VCs and institutional investors certainly will not invest in shitcoins that loose 90% of their values in 3 months. There is enough data by now to make conclusions about shitcoins - and you can see on the current market what's happening when such conclusion is about to be made.

Bitcoin is a different matter, Bitcoin will be fine.

You have no idea what you're saying. Bitcoin startups has had over 200million in VC investments. Bitcoin obviously lacks the ability to just add on w/e features it wants because of politics and the rest, altcoins however are free to do so.

This phrase; "Bitcoin is a different matter, Bitcoin will be fine.", is 100% bullshit as well. Bitcoin on it's current track without intervention will inevitably fail due to being partly centralized by mining farms. Altcoins are new, they don't face such centralization, yet, so if any investor wants to invest in the cryptocurrency scene, he'd go for promising altcoins as well as Bitcoin. Until large investors can soundly invest a cool 100million in a cryptocurrency without raising the price skyhigh, then we haven't reached "mainstream" yet.

Take you bullshit, biased, beliefs elswhere. Your opinion doesn't matter, you can't define something as a "shitcoin" because it doesn't meet your expectations of what it should deliver and when etc. And as I said earlier, these small single digit million dollar marketcap's that some people think is "High", for altcoins shows that this entire cryptocurrency scene is just in the beginning.

The problem with your statements is that they are stupid. And, inevitably, uninformed.

As far as public awareness, the latest published poll, coming from the UK, shows that 72% of the people has heard of Bitcoin. There are very few single name things or people that the general population on any country has heard of at the level of 72%. So awareness is not the problem. Likewise, the bitcoin penetration in the general economy continues growing, albeit slowly. But growing.

Meanwhile, the shitcoin bubble, otherwise known as the altcoin scene, continues bringing in new shit projects that go by the wayside within weeks, 99% of the time.

A bigger problem for Bitcoin though is that, although it is generally know by the vast majority of people in most advanced countries, it has the worst reputation possible due to scams (such as Gox and other exchanges) and it's volatility which makes it unusable for most merchants since ity doesn't represent any advantage, in and of itself, to FIAT.

Altcoins aren't even close to the front door of entering the economy in ANY way. Nor will they ever... although the gaming/gambling industry cual become an exception if Breakout Gaming is successful with it's BRO project, which so far has been a terrible disappointment failing to attract any real investors or even pump and dumpers.

I am well aware of the VC investment in Bitcoin start-ups and the fact that the Bitcoin ecosystem has been developing validates my argument that Bitcoin is a unique position, as I said a different matter.

As for the shitcoins, of course I can define what shitcoin is: virtually all altcoins as none of them has a viable use case. There are a few exceptions what I said to Barabbas in this thread, like the BRO gambling coin and a few technology coins, but I also admitted that even the aforementioned few with viable use cases have a remote chance to be successful.

I think your desire to succeed in this shitcoin field makes you blind and you ignore the reality, that's all right, I am just saying :-)))

Do you consider name coin one of the exceptions? It seems to have a viable use case of providing domain names.

The problem with even the alts that have an use for their coins, is that, IF THEY ARE SUCCESSFUL, which is difficult enough in and out of itself, for something like 95% new business fail, they DO NOT NEED any altcoin behind them, or along with them. The business of domain names has already enough sucessful providers heavily competing for the limited business available by offering other goods and services that differentiates them from the competition. And they accept payment in FIAT so why is there a need for crypto there? there isn't.

Similarly, 65% of payments to game sites worldwide is made in bitcoin. ALREADY. Even if Breakout Gaming is successful, they do not need BRLO at all. They are going to accept FIAT and Bitcoin payments of course, just like any other casino. They will only pay out in BRO. Than in itself is a hube barrier that makes much harder for them to be successful for the competition pays out in FIAT or BTC on demand, so their chances as a gaming/gambling operation are, in my view, greatly diminished by using BRO along rather than enhanced.

The same is true for any other altcoin I can think of. The ones with the cannabis or mariuana attached to them... what the fuck is that a need when you can order just the same paying with FIAT or BTC? the so called "ude case" is, in reality, not such a thing.

Anyway, about Namecoin, no, there's no reason for it to survive. None whatsoever.

Reading your post and lack of knowledge on this made me literally facepalm myself multiple times in linear order.

I'm done, believe what you want. You're mostly wrong on your beliefs. Most altcoins are worthless or copycats, that's true, but you obviously can't see that Bitcoin isn't perfect. For ex: it's privacy is lacking, it's transaction times are lacking, etc, and of which altcoins improved/can improve upon. It seems you've been burnt by investing in altcoins, that''s you're problem. Open up your eyes.

You know, it's also funny when you make up lies mr barabbas, now everyone reading this thread can see you for the liar you are. Most people have never heard of Bitcoin, and those that have don't own any Bitcoin. So take your opinions and go elsewhere. All of your comments are opinionated without any knowledgeable thoughts behind them. You frankly make no sense. It's too early to argue whether "the altcoin bubble has burst", because it hasn't started yet.

http://www.thestreet.com/story/12306983/1/three-in-four-people-have-never-heard-of-bitcoin.html
http://www.forbes.com/sites/perianneboring/2014/02/22/bitcoin-basics-for-the-76-percenters-who-dont-have-a-clue-what-it-is/

Your definition of shitcoin has clarified to me that you're a troll 100% and/or 100% idiot. Going by your definition, Bitcoin is a shitcoin as well, since it's been out for 5 years and has hardly had a definite impact on society, yet. And, with that I won't be responding to you anymore, you gave me your definition of "shitcoin" which encompasses all cryptocurrencies since none of them are that useful thus far.

Nice job there /sarcasm.

Again, the problem with your posts is that they are STUPID. Which is made worst, exponentially, when you ridicule yourself calling people names or, in my case, a liar, being that I never, ever, lie. Ever.

And to "prove" that yopu are right -instead of posting the stupidities that you post- you offer 2 links from the beginning of this year, 9-10 full months ago, when in effect, the awareness of Bitcoin was ,truly, significantly lower than it is now. I, on the other hand, quoted the LAST, MOST RECENT published poll (Coindesk, I believe).

And I haven't been burnt by altcoins more than you or anyone one else that has ever traded or invested in them. I am just quite aware of what is going on and what is going one, shared as you can read, by a great amount of people, is that the liquidity is gone, there's no more money to scam and, still, there's nothing of any value offered by alts, any alt.

But, since I don't moderate -nor will ever- any thread, you are welcome to keep on embarrassing yourself posting more stupidities.

I agree. Mooncoin is an example.

I'm truly starting to doubt that you have any intelligence whatsoever. This article, http://www.forbes.com/sites/perianneboring/2014/02/22/bitcoin-basics-for-the-76-percenters-who-dont-have-a-clue-what-it-is/, was written in Feburary 2014, this year, Bitcoin has been on a Huge downtrend from that point on, and lost a significant userbase(investment wise).

So, Bitcoin's popularity from last year, compared to now has dwindled enormously...It's price last year was $1200 ATH, now it's down 4x from that. And, because of the scams that have rocketed Bitcoin this year(Mt.Gox), we can only assume that the scams themselves and the negative attention it put on Bitcoin in the eyes of the public has actually Hurt Bitcoin's adoption rate.

You should seriously just stop posting, you're looking like a complete fool.

Fortunately, there's no possible doubt about the quality or even quantity of your brain power. You make it evident with each post and futile attempt at defending the invitable embarrassment, falling way deeper into it.

As you should know -and if you were even minimally intelligent you would have re-read it for confirmation-, I did not it was more popular or had better press. I did say more people, many more, know of bitcoin now, in almost December 2014 than they did in February. Exponentially more. Specifically I pointed out that, even though the numbers in the poll showed that 72% of people in the UK knew about bitcoin, it had an image problem, due to the scams and scandals. Anyone with 1/4 of a brain knows that scandals, more than anything, make people, things and events known. And, as such, every new one adds to people having heard of, being curious about or otherwise know of bitcoin.

Additionally, Bitcoin size of the overall economy continues growing, albeit slowly. More merchants adopt it. More customers use it. If the size of the cake has gone from 2% in 2013 to 2.8% or higher in 2014, it means, logically, not only that many more millions of people know of bitcoin now than in February but also the millions more are using it too.

It would be so easy to stop keeping on embarrassing yourself... and yet, it is a certainty that you will continue doing exactly that. Wow.

During 2000 we had many search engines and Google has become the most popular search engine.
Market always consolidates to 2 or 3 big players, the rest disappears.

Bitcoin and Litecoin are here to stay, imho.

Alts are like HYIP. 90% of HYIP are scams but it always exists... (the population of greedy idiots is greater than you think)

We wrote about this and the cryptocurrency ecosystem after launching our new alt currency exchange: https://blackwavelabs.com

http://www.digitalcurrencycouncil.com/professional/the-bitcoin-barometer-a-study-of-sentiment-in-the-uk-toward-bitcoin/

It's a very limited survey: quota-based sampling, weighted by census, online interviews with 527 “nationally representative adults aged 18+” conducted by Reputation Leaders Ltd. and likely obtained from an MROC. So that's n=527 from a population of 70000000+ and, because the sampling is quota-based, no estimate of sampling error is possible.

Following the latest trend in survey methods, it basically canvasses respondents' views of other people's perceptions --- which is what you'll get from answers to the question “how do you view the reputation of these payment systems ...” and so, when interpreting the results, you also have to bear in mind the context in which these reputations have been acquired, a context which, for instance, includes these loaded phrases used by the British Daily Mail ...

“If you are a computer genius you could make money by creating Bitcoins through 'data-mining.'”
“troubled bitcoin digital currency”
“the crisis-ridden bitcoin currency”
“as Bitcoin lurched from one disaster to another”
“Speculative investors have jumped into the bitcoin fray, ...”

The survey reporting hints at conflicts of interests. Reputation Leaders sell reputation action services to the commercial providers in the market that they are surveying. There are clear hints with “nearly a quarter of Brits say Bitcoin has a fair to very bad reputation” (13% say "very good/excellent"). The collapse of “fair” and “very bad” obscures just what percentage said it had a “very bad” reputation - which could be as low as 0.00000001% or as high as 23.99999%.

And there's an elephant ... “if you were seeking professional advice on bitcoin, which of the following individuals would you speak to”

Someone certified by the ... DCC
A financial advisor
An accountant
A lawyer.

The DCC are the “Digital Currency Council” a New York-based web site outfit striving for credibility and whose regulatory remit (should they manage to achieve one) cannot cross the pond so the rationale for referencing a nascent US-based voluntary standards org in a UK-facing survey is a puzzle ... unless the survey is another example of the increasingly popular trend to exploit interest in low-power surveys to serve as a promotional clothes horse --- in this instance, for the DCC. That would explain the unlikely inclusion.


Cheers

Graham

Edit, added URL

I fail to see the point of your dissertation. It was simply referenced to show the FACT that bitcoin is much better known -albeit having a bad reputation- in the UK (and by extension, everywhere) than it was 10 months ago. No one with half a brain can dispute that. Are you disputing that argument of just offering a lecture in validity and context of modern polling? Sheeesh!

Good point, that's something I should have anticipated.

Cheers

Graham

Actually you did not, since you never even once mentioned the word scam. Perhaps due to the fact that Blackcoin is probably the biggest scam perpetrated on Alts so far. And that, not innovation or differentiation, is the subject of this thread.

https://image.prntscr.com/image/HRqFDVaTTj6sl24sY-jJLg.jpeg

Can't resist necroing this thread  :D