THE ALT CURRENCIES BUBBLE IS BURSTING...

[sdersdf3]

The AI project and the impulses than somehow bring commissions or fees to the holders, I frankly did not get it.

I'd be very surprised if you did, it's unadulterated gobbledygook.

Cheers

Graham

You're saying all crypto - including potential blockchain 2.0 stuff -- is useless? Have you seen Ethereum's mist demo?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgNjs_WaFSc

[sdersdf3]

People should be aware of the alternate agenda here.
These guys despise coins they cannot mine.

I was wondering what all the motives might be here. There are at least two things going on at the same time:
1) trade activity in crypto is definitely down significantly
2) a lot of trading activity has been redistributed away from mega miners to devs via ICOs

[Shibashi Dogemoto]

the bubble busted already.

now it is the final capitulation

[barabbas]

Let me be quite clear about this: NO DECENTRALIZED MARKET OF ANY KIND WILL BE ALLOWED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT ANYWHERE..

You are selling ANON Gen 2.0 platforms like NXT waaaay short...
When running on 100% anon crypto-currencies they will be unassailable.

You think LE will be able to shut down 1,000,000 NXT clients with the full blockchain...
When a little program like BitTorrent brought the music/movie/porn business to it's knees?  
(Despite Draconian measures by LE and the courts).

So you write off infinitely more powerful blockchain tech flooding the pipeline...
Because it's been abused to pull off ultra-sophisticated, centralized scams like BitShares and Etherium.

You need to get away from BitCoinTalk... and see what True Believers are building out there.

The True believers, just like the non-true believers are building basically shit that allows them to get out of the garages of their parents  before they hit 40 and actually without having worked a single day in their lives, that's what they are doing in Crypto for the most part.

So you believe that Law Enforcement gave a rat's ass if children shared songs, books and movies, including porno, over Bittorrent? Really? Well, if they would have, none of those would be in existence today. And, not only that, all their  developers would be rotting in jail right now. You, I presume, just read the shut down of Silkroad 2, which was bragged about as  impossible to happen because if anything happened to Defcom, the network will self protect and go dar temporarily and relocating, haven't you? Well, the guy is in jail, his money taken and Silkroad 2 is history. That wasn't anonymous enough, you said? You understand that is like saying "she's not virgin enough", right? Either you are or you aren't, right?

OK now take off your geek hat and use your brain for once, ok? You want to buy cheap cocaine from this guy in Colombia that has been brought to your attention by a friend in Australia. You live in Japan? So you contact guy-in-Colombia, you both deposit he the coca you the BTC and you just wait for the coca to be delivered to you by UPS under the wrapping of Juan Valdez Cafe. And you go on with your party and on to the next "transaction", right? And you laugh wild and wide long after teh effects of the coca have disappeared because you were so ahead of the Law that you are the untouchable Geek, right? Oh wait, what is wrong with that picture? Nothing, you say? Coffee -or any and all items, regardless which, go through customs like nothing happens? Well, let me tell you the REAL scenario: Long before you actually send the invitations to the party, as soon as you open the package, you have the police throwing down your parents home's door and putting you in the back seat of a black and white before dumping you in a jail in which a rather enormous and exceptionally endowed African American man is going to become your protector from day one, ok?

Oh, you are not interested in drugs because your "thing" is child porno and that comes to you through the computer, so "no one can ever find out", because it's so anon, right? WRONG AGAIN. Shortly after you order from the guy in Canada, and when you start masturbating to the new material, both the guy in Canada and you are arrested and thrown in the same jail with the same African American because, it happened, several international law enforcement agencies had been circling that specific child porno ring and have had agents on the inside -just like in Silkroad 2- for months, if not years. And they just caught you, the Canadian and 87 others in 32 countries of the world, all being thrown in similar cells with identical African Americans of exceptional endowment.

You really are so simple that you believe ANY degree of anonymity is going to protect your from law enforcement when you break the law? Havent you read what happened, just happened to a couple that thought just like you?

And, by the way, you got it all wrong... again. Bittorrent never put on any knees any industry, musical, movies or otherwise. As a matter of fact it became a very efficient promotion for the abusive distribution of music, mainly, and movies. Studios and music houses continue making more money than they have ever made. Thanks to Bittorrent and the likes, NOT the opposite. The one which kind of changed the whole think was iTunes, you might remember. Because in the age of ones and zeroes, CDs, obviously became almost as obsolete as the 8-track tapes. And in the times of you eat whatever you want and nothing you don't, you cannot simply force people to buy a full album when 99% only want to own or have or listen to a couple of the songs in that album. The music industry did not want to evolve and adapt and were forced to... in a very friendly way, nothing shocking; the movie industry learned the lesson and started a distribution way that is up with the times, and continuously evolving. It was hard to say goodbye to all those billions of dollars in DVD sales, but the alternatives proved equally rewarding... and then some. No one put them on their knees. At all.

Crypto is not changing anything. Not yet. Crypto (that's BTC for you, and ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ELSE), is pointing towards a technology that "may" have an actual, practical use in the real world. The jury's still out on that one. It looks like it could be useful but it is years from any significant implementation, best case scenario. Meanwhile, just a gimmick to try to bring to the conventional fold a bunch of disenfranchised potential customers, so some merchants pretend to "play ball". And pay BitPay just like they pay Visa, Discover or Mastercard... because they don't trade in crypto, they just pretend they do. They cannot afford  -no one can-, to trade in crypto.

That's the "real" state of crypto. And alts, for any intent or purpose, aren't even in that scenario. Nor will. Ever.

[barabbas]

the bubble busted already.

now it is the final capitulation

If by "final capitulation" you mean we are still between 70 and 95% from the bottom, depending on the coin, I agree with you.

[smalltimer]

bubble bursting my ass.

WE ARE ON THE UP AND UP!
 

[lopalcar]

Again the point here (the points you make, actually) is that there's NOTHING of any conventional value that in any significant way, is traded on any of those initiatives. It's next which buys nxt ventures, which can be sold for BTC which can be used to buy next. going on circles and going nowhere. You cannot actually trade them for dollars oRr any other fiat or perceived holder of wealth such a precious metals or stones. And those "assets" give you "dividends" that are, again, next. Or Atomic. Or supernet. Or any other shit... no business is generated. No traffic/advertising, no sales of any goods or services outside of overpriced crypto-friendly shit no one in the real world wants. It's like playing with marvels that go from one pocket to another and never serve any purpose than the actual playing with them. Children's games.

Ehmm... I think that is great then, is a plattform where the prices are set in their own currency, isn't needing the dollar... for me that is fine. Also is tradeable by the same things as bitcoin is, I don't know why you say you can't trade them to dollars  and there are one gateway from anon96 to trade it for silver. Are you complaining about bitcoin assets companys paying dividedns in bitcoins? Would you be more happy if instead of buying nxt to pay dividends, the asset issuers buy multigatewayBitcoins or coinoUSD for pay you in that kind of coin? I really don't see your points.
Isn't nexxty a real app outside the crypto world? Or the game which is in development? Or Jinn? There is also the freemarket running on nxt, there you can buy goods "there isn't many yet, ok..."
Don't try to compare a one year coin with fiat, of course it looks like a kids game then, even bitcoin looks like that...
Which uses have bitcoin which nxt doesn't?

[barabbas]

Again the point here (the points you make, actually) is that there's NOTHING of any conventional value that in any significant way, is traded on any of those initiatives. It's next which buys nxt ventures, which can be sold for BTC which can be used to buy next. going on circles and going nowhere. You cannot actually trade them for dollars oRr any other fiat or perceived holder of wealth such a precious metals or stones. And those "assets" give you "dividends" that are, again, next. Or Atomic. Or supernet. Or any other shit... no business is generated. No traffic/advertising, no sales of any goods or services outside of overpriced crypto-friendly shit no one in the real world wants. It's like playing with marvels that go from one pocket to another and never serve any purpose than the actual playing with them. Children's games.

Ehmm... I think that is great then, is a plattform where the prices are set in their own currency, isn't needing the dollar... for me that is fine. Also is tradeable by the same things as bitcoin is, I don't know why you say you can't trade them to dollars  and there are one gateway from anon96 to trade it for silver. Are you complaining about bitcoin assets companys paying dividedns in bitcoins? Would you be more happy if instead of buying nxt to pay dividends, the asset issuers buy multigatewayBitcoins or coinoUSD for pay you in that kind of coin? I really don't see your points.
Isn't nexxty a real app outside the crypto world? Or the game which is in development? Or Jinn? There is also the freemarket running on nxt, there you can buy goods "there isn't many yet, ok..."
Don't try to compare a one year coin with fiat, of course it looks like a kids game then, even bitcoin looks like that...
Which uses have bitcoin which nxt doesn't?

I am not complaining, I am stating facts. And the fact is that only bitcoin, and none of the alts, none whatsoever, is making some very small, tiny, inroads in the world economy. And, like I say, no one is able -due to volatility- to accept even bitcoin, let alone any alt. If you use bitpay, like ALL merchants that accept bitcoin do, you are not really using crypto. Or bitcoin. You are using a conventional creditcard that happens to be named bitpay. And yes, you cannot buy ANYTHING with your crypto, unless you pay the pied piper (BitPay). So we are not progressing. At all. It isn't a complain, it is a fact.

But Alts specifically, arent even in the game. the nxt freemarket is as much a joke as the Unbreakablecoin "digital ebay" market. It's actually non-existant. And it ain't getting any better neither. And yes, as long as dividends are being paid in "assets" they are not "real" dividends, it's a gimmick, the left hand paying the right hand with the same marbles over and over and over again, while no profit of any kind is generated and any new money comes in the form of crypto from speculators that will soon leave the game -as they have- after being burned and taken for a ride by the unexcrupulous devs. Alts are not only not progressing, not only not bringing anything -yet- in the form of technology, they are actually self destructing. The shitcoins, of course, and, at the same time, those that at one point showed some promise. Like NXT, for instance.

But we are not going to agree on this, of course. And it is OK and even good. Time -crypto-time goes at hyperspeed so hopefully we both will be still alive when alts self destroy completely or almost completely- and will determine who was right. It's just that I have read today some "coin" which offer to provide the user the ability to open one's garage door from one corner of the world to another and that has been possible on the iphone for at least the last three editions. For free. This genius considers it reasonable to charge $5 a year subscription for the service. It is really hilarious...

[lopalcar]

I am not complaining, I am stating facts. And the fact is that only bitcoin, and none of the alts, none whatsoever, is making some very small, tiny, inroads in the world economy. And, like I say, no one is able -due to volatility- to accept even bitcoin, let alone any alt. If you use bitpay, like ALL merchants that accept bitcoin do, you are not really using crypto. Or bitcoin. You are using a conventional creditcard that happens to be named bitpay. And yes, you cannot buy ANYTHING with your crypto, unless you pay the pied piper (BitPay). So we are not progressing. At all. It isn't a complain, it is a fact.

But Alts specifically, arent even in the game. the nxt freemarket is as much a joke as the Unbreakablecoin "digital ebay" market. It's actually non-existant. And it ain't getting any better neither. And yes, as long as dividends are being paid in "assets" they are not "real" dividends, it's a gimmick, the left hand paying the right hand with the same marbles over and over and over again, while no profit of any kind is generated and any new money comes in the form of crypto from speculators that will soon leave the game -as they have- after being burned and taken for a ride by the unexcrupulous devs. Alts are not only not progressing, not only not bringing anything -yet- in the form of technology, they are actually self destructing. The shitcoins, of course, and, at the same time, those that at one point showed some promise. Like NXT, for instance.

But we are not going to agree on this, of course. And it is OK and even good. Time -crypto-time goes at hyperspeed so hopefully we both will be still alive when alts self destroy completely or almost completely- and will determine who was right. It's just that I have read today some "coin" which offer to provide the user the ability to open one's garage door from one corner of the world to another and that has been possible on the iphone for at least the last three editions. For free. This genius considers it reasonable to charge $5 a year subscription for the service. It is really hilarious...

Ok, I'm starting to see your point once you have said that even bitcoin is unviable for merchants now, you are right, this market is very volatile.
When I told you that being paid in assets as mtwateway bitcoins or coinousd is because this assets are BACKED by either bitcoin "still doubts about his value" or USD "seems valuable yet", aren't this real dividednds? If this money comes from crypto enviroment is another thing, for the moment is where more easy is to make a bussines withouth legal complications, but once real companys which earn the money outside the crypto world start paying dividedends, there will be a new money flow, but this is very slow due to laws...
I don't know how much joke is freemarket or openbaazar, but if I understand right how they works seems like good ideas and very difficult to shutdown, although there are many cons against this kind of markets, is a good advance for people which want freedom, although like I said, there will be consequences and we will need to take responsabilities, there is an interesting disscussion going on here: https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/could-a-black-market-exist-on-nxt-platform/msg134260/?topicseen#msg134260
I don't know if alts will die, but there isn't any reason for bitcoin to survive being better alternatives out there, I know is the first and the one with more money inside, but assuming this ammount of money is negligible for real world economy, this situation can change from night to morning...
I agree with you about many new forced uses for the blockchain and shitty IPOS, I stoped investing any money in this new coins long time ago.

Anyways, seems you doen't believe in crypto and are expecting it at the same height as fiat money which have been working for hundreds of years, if you doesn't have any fault in cryptos, I advice you to run away and left believers as me lose all our money "or whatever we invested"

[markg2014]

Before the launch of the ethereum platform I am selling my ether at €1 per coin. For more information visit www.kryptobrokers.com or email us at info@kryptobrokers.com

[gjhiggins]

The AI project and the impulses than somehow bring commissions or fees to the holders, I frankly did not get it.

I'd be very surprised if you did, it's unadulterated gobbledygook.

You're saying all crypto - including potential blockchain 2.0 stuff -- is useless?

No I'm not saying anything of the sort, not even inadvertently via Google translate. My statement offers no grounds for your implausible reformulation; the resolution of the anaphora (the “it” in my statement) is both grammatically and contextually unambiguous, nailed down by the inclusion of the pertinent quote.

Your personal enthusiasm for Ethereum appears to be prompting you to make significant errors in reasoning.


Cheers

Graham

[altcoinUK]

There's (another) terrible misconception in all the potential ideal uses of crypto, smart contracts, etc. Most devs are focusing on ways in which the customer will pay for the goods or services, the provider/seller will get their payment and there are no returns, since the operation can't be cancelled.

Well, anyone who has ever procured a product or service very well knows that returns (and chargebacks) is a (huge) part of the business. You simply cannot eliminate them... nor you would want them because if there's a sure-fire way to a fail business is a string, even a small one, of unsatisfied customers. That's the absolute no-no on ANY business (legal ones, that is).

So you have, for the most part, geeks that have never worked a day in their lives, that have never had any money nor purchase anything other than a playstation, making decision about how successful business should be conducted in crypto that merchants have not even heard of and are already extremely wary of selling in BTC because, to preserve their minimal profits, they have to pay the fees -more than credit cards- to BitPay... It is a lose-lose-lose and then LOSE proposition. And one more reason why this hobby of nut miners is NEVER going to come forward in a significant manner in many years to come.

IBM, on the other hand, would implement the parts of the tech that are innovating and usable in their suite of products and services already commercialized.

And by the way, through the internet and with very basic applications, you can already do all of that that you mentioned, from your Ipad. From opening doors to set temperatures, record programs on your DVR, the temperature of your fridge and a lot more... all for free. Already. What was the use case for those, you were saying? It seems to me first generation when, the real world is already it is 7th or later iterations of the same thing... without additional costs.

I think our conversations highlights the biggest issue with those tech altcoins: they can't even explain the business case, so investors are quite understandably ignore them.

That particular IoT use case is lot more what your iPad application offers which is only provides high level controls. I understand from end user viewpoint only the high level control matters (i.e. open your garage door), but in order to actually execute your hardware there are a lot more happening behind the screen which hardware manufacturers and integrators need to deal with . I believe that's why IBM is super excited about having a simple infrastructure that potentially could manage security, provisioning, configuration, upgrade, payment and end user interface aspect of the hardware. Yo see, your iPad manage only one element of the aforementioned few, the end user interface.  

I wouldn't be be surprised if with IBM's push the blockchain and peer to peer based Internet of Things market will be a multibillion dollars business very-very soon, bigger than the whole Bitcoin today - excluding the payment part of the technology which is even a bigger potential market than hardware management. So never mind the payment side of the tech, but if  only one Japanese car manufacturer pick up the technology to use its hardware management, connectivity, security features then the gross market of the tech will exceed Bitcoin's, and I have no doubt IBM will find the way convince manufacturers to use the technology. Until this ecosystem is finalized, there will be plenty of opportunity for the IoT coins (that's why I started to chat with the BitBay people in the first place) as for mainly price reasons not everybody in this business willing to deal with IBM.

The big issue is, what you have pointed out very correctly that these coins can't even explain the use case, business, opportunity and how investors' could make money from it, and therefore most of them probably will be in the altcoin graveyard without making any impact.

[muddafudda]

2015 will be the death of Crypto as we once knew it.

[altcoinUK]

2015 will be the death of Crypto as we once knew it.

It probably will be. Bitcoin will be still there, in my opinion a very few, perhaps 1-2 blockchain based, smart contract solutions will be there too, but yes the +500 BTC/LTC clones, even perhaps not clones like NXT will be gone ... as Barabbas pointed out there is absolutely no use of those coins.  All coins will be disappear that has no use.

[BootstrapCoinDev]

The AI project and the impulses than somehow bring commissions or fees to the holders, I frankly did not get it.

I'd be very surprised if you did, it's unadulterated gobbledygook.

You're saying all crypto - including potential blockchain 2.0 stuff -- is useless?

No I'm not saying anything of the sort, not even inadvertently via Google translate. My statement offers no grounds for your implausible reformulation; the resolution of the anaphora (the “it” in my statement) is both grammatically and contextually unambiguous, nailed down by the inclusion of the pertinent quote.

Your personal enthusiasm for Ethereum appears to be prompting you to make significant errors in reasoning.


Cheers

Graham

Don't forget about the trolls/speculators - bitcoin is monetary sovereignty - ethereum is social sovereignty. Bitcoin is an application of the decentralized consensus at scale technology - ethereum is a platform for the creation of countless apps leveraging that technology. Not by a close-knit group of techno-elite but by everyone.

[altcoinUK]

as long community's keep growing, no altcoin will disappear everyone said the same thing about Litecoin and look they managed to get up to 50$.

The only thing what will disappear are the different paper money which is being used by Banks at the moment.

I disagree. You're talking about a one off event like the Litecoin and similar altcoins story. The Litecoin story doesn't indicate the altcoins have any places in business (see the arguments about the uselessness of altcoins), but proves that the 1637 Dutch tulip mania can be repeated. Altcoins had their run. A bubble had been created during this run, the scams took the money, but the bubble naturally once must be bursted an then it will be gone.

[balu2]

coins that still have pump and dump value will not die. They have their usecase.

[altcoinUK]

tulip mania has nothing to do with crypto currency. The demand is there because the honesty of Fiat money was not there and we keep seeing that its leaking from every side.

Crypto can fix this with decentralization.

You are quite right that the corrupted banking system, organizations like JP Morgan makes decentralized digital currency a very appealing proposition for millions worldwide, but Bitcoin is perfectly capable to address the issues of the existing banking system and FIAT, and the issue has nothing to do with the rest 500 BTC clones altcoins, including Litecoin.

And of course greed and willing to take risk to become rich (the very same things that caused the tulip mania in the first place) have everything to do with the altcoin bubble. The 1637 dutch tulips and 2014 shitcoins were both valuable at one point because an investment, "get rich quick" bubble was created around both commodities.

[Come-In-Behind]

Mark my words, This is just the beginning of the cryptocurrency rush.

[altcoinUK]

coins that still have pump and dump value will not die. They have their usecase.

I am sure they are perfectly suitable to be a P&D target, but their are no buyers anymore and there won't be new buyers. The historical data indicate that no altcoin can keep never mind increase its value, therefore it is not a good investment target. It was great, it attracted lots of investment one stage, they have their tun, but that's it.