Bitcoin Forum

I work for General Dynamics, a company that is suckling on the US government's teet. They would never risk their sweet military industrial complex relationship with the government by accepting bitcoins.

I use bitwage.co (I do not work for them, just happy that I can get paid in Bitcoin).

I set up my direct deposit to the account number they provided me and my last paycheck it was all converted to bitcoins automatically. My bank never saw a penny of my paycheck.

That is the first step in dumping my bank forever.

For spending money I usually sell on localbitcoins for a profit anyway so I always have some cash on hand. And pretty much anything I want online can be paid in Bitcoin.

Interesting! Make sure you have at least a nominal amount of regular FIAT money so you are not screwed in case the Bitcoin experiment goes belly-up at any point! It is an interesting ride, but we should never forget about the volatile and experimental nature of this whole endeavour!

Bitwage has always been interesting to me - I am planning a job with them over the summer and I'm curious about your overall experience and if you have any suggestions about the service you received.

This is awesome! Thanks for the head's up about bitwage.co!  :D

'Dumping a bank forever'

It really sounds cool man, congrats on your first step about taking paycheck with BTC ;)

Congrats... It must feel good eh?

If I had a job I'd use this service for sure..

I wonder how many others like you are out there using this service.

This could actually be some real big business if done right!

Anyway... Congrats again!

cool stuff  8)

i would start with 10% monthly  ;)

The service was great. They have an online chat, I brought many complications with me because my phone number is German but I get paid in the US. They require phone verification but I doubt they did any testing with overseas numbers so they had to fix a few things to get my account working. They're still in Beta so I expected a few bumps but am surprised at how well it works.

Even if Bitcoin drops to $1 I have another paycheck coming in 2 weeks so...no biggie. Like I said, I sell on localbitcoins to get cash so I always have some spending money.

I'm definitely gonna use this service soon. Most of my income has a corresponding expense, but that will change soon once I finish training (radiology) this summer.

I think more people should follow your initiative. However I am afraid converting 100% of salary on a monthly basis is still risky. I would like to go with 10-20% though. Is there any way to do so?

Another concern I have are fees for this service and overall financial benefit for both me and an employer.

1) Converting my wage into BTC so I can make use of BTC infrastructure should bring me benefits over doing the same with fiat. At least it must save me transaction fees which I would have to pay if I buy anything with fiat.

2) Both my employer and me should have tax release for an amount converted into BTC as this could be treated as company benefit.

you now need to push your local grocery store to accept bitcoin and your landlord. and then you'll be at my level of no FIAT :D

i dont even look at the fiat price anymore, the only time i see price changes is when people write topics on these boards in their emotional panicking state.. lol to me bitcoin is better than fiat no matter what the crappy exchange values show

Are you able to split your direct deposits between bank accounts? If so you can split it 10-20%, it goes by your direct deposit.

There are no fees though when I was paid the price was around $316 on Bitstamp and they paid me based on $319 so they may be adding 1% to their base price.

I have no idea about the employer using their service. As an employee my employer has no idea that I am being paid in Bitcoin.

Most likely I can't. The only option would be to rewire 20% to bitwage.co from my primary account but this would mean paying international bank transfrer fees.

My employer let's us split up our paychecks by fixed amount,  percentage, &  remainder.

Dude!!! That is awesome!!! All in!! Go big or go home!!

Wow, that's quite some step you took there. Are there a lot of fees associated with that service? I'd prefer it if my employer paid me directly in Bitcoin, of course. Since you are effectively only forwarding your money directly to that service, there still are a lot of banks involved. But I agree that this is the next best thing to the dream of being paid in Bitcoin.

I work at Micron Technologies, Inc. and I am doing something similar.  I just receive enough shitty fiat (of which the federal reserve counterfeits daily) to pay rent, utilitites, etc.  Everything else, starting this new year, is going into bitcoin via bitwage.co.  Once you are 100% in control of your money there is no going back to legacy banking.  Fuck you bankers.

If I ever work for a big corporation I will be doing the same!

Wow. Talk about someone who believes so much in bitcoin. I mean you practically wager everything you earn with the hope bitcoin will one day becomes the standard currency! Good luck then. I'm not that brave as you but still keeping a portion in fiat to lower the risk.

Thanks for this post, I did not know this was possible with bitwage.co

So you simply tell HR that you need your direct deposit route/account numbers changed, and provide them with new numbers provided by bitwage.co - then do you provide bitwage.co with a new BTC receiving address each month? Their website isn't very clear on how any of this works and didn't inspire much confidence.

Are you keeping track of capital gains for every bitcoin transaction you make? Every BTC you get through bitwage.co is now "on the grid" and presumably you'd need to be able to account for how you spent each one of them in the event of a potential IRS audit. I am curious how you are going to deal with all the additional bookkeeping?

man this is scary lol. How will you pay your mortgage and bills? Or maybe your debt free which if so seems like a fun idea to try out.

That's exactly how it works, I provide a receive address to bitwage.co and can change it if I want.


Yes, to any IRS agent reading this I do all of my taxes, especially when using localbitcoins.

Actually, for me it is fairly different. I live overseas so I do not pay income tax up to my first $100k of income. I live in Germany where Capital gains on bitcoins is zero after a year. So I can buy and hold all year with these coins and spend my other coins. Simple enough to keep track of with one address for income. I can just change addresses in a year and start spending this income.


Actually, I do have a mortgage on a house I own in the US that is being rented. The rent goes to my bank account which I send to the mortgage company each month. I need to figure out this last piece of the puzzle. Australia already has a Bitcoin bill pay company, hopefully someone in the US sets one up.

I pay cash for my rent here which includes utilities, so all I need money for is food and gas. Converting Bitcoins to euros is a lot cheaper than dollars to euros.

This is the true future and use of bitcoin, if we want it to be solid, we need the ability to get paid in it for serious jobs, not posting on forums or whatnot. The thing is, I dont really understand how it works for you... do the workers know you get paid in btc? they know your btc address? you bypass 100% taxes (you said banks dont know shit), and you can really trust bitwage? I dont feel too safe giving them personal info.
All that stuff I dont understand and have to check it out.

My employer has no idea I am getting paid in BTC. Bitwage is like a reverse BitPay. BitWage gets paid in fiat from my company via direct deposit and converts it to BTC for me.

My company takes care of my taxes, 401k, benefit deductions, ObamaCare, etc. before they send on the direct deposit.

As far as trusting bitwage, I trust them about as much as an exchange. They hold none of my bitcoins, the worst they could do is keep one of my paychecks. At that point their whole business would be finished and nobody would use them again. And because they use ACH, my company would probably get the deposit reversed.

Really interesting and informative thread, keep it up, bookmarked for later read.

You sir are a true Bitcoin Hero! A Legendary Hero! :D

Why don't you use https://bitreserve.org to hedge volatility?

Dude, congrats on your win in this race going on to make BTC usable at such extent...

Is it available for Indians too?

Not now. They only support US employers ATM but they do plan expanding internationally.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitwage/comments/2r6c6b/any_plan_to_support_canadian_employers_in_the/

Nice one, Elwar !

This is precisely what BTC needs right now, some positive pressure. If every Bitcoiner with balls enough was to do this, this would go a long way to giving BTC some much-needed stability.

I do the same but keep a little bit of fiat around for days like today when bitcoin is a bit lower. When bitcoin increases , everything becomes cheaper ;)

That's awesome
I frankly would not have the guts to commit more than 10-205 of my fiat earnings to btc

you should always keep enough fiat in hand.

If you are a U.S. citizen, you must pay capital gains at the U.S. rate.

Yes, as long as I follow the same process of FIFO or LIFO.  I think LIFO makes it easier for keeping close to the price I paid when I spend.

Just save some FIAT

In bitcoin world,we never know what might happen

I also do not, not today. But who knows in a near future.
Anyway, I just have to thank the shared experience.

Bitcoin is destined to completely replace every kind of fiat currency by the end of 2015. It can't go wrong.

Congratulations Elwar! You're the most ardent BTC's fan I know.
If there were thousands like you, price of BTC would quickly jump back above $1,000.

One little question about bitwage: are they fast? How long does it take between the moment your employer pays them and you get the money in your wallet?

Whats the first thing you bought with your bitcoin paycheck?

It is very fast. My company sends out the payroll on Thursday and I usually get paid on Friday, but looking at my e-mail, the first check showed going through on Friday my second check showed it going through on Thursday. Some of my co-workers use USAA so they get paid on Thursday, most regular banks have always given me a delay.

If you are looking for a better estimate I will pay closer attention to the time next paycheck.

I spend bitcoins all the time, it's like pulling out a credit card by now. The first thing after my last paycheck was probably a plane ticket to London for the London expo using cheapair.com

Oh, very good. Thanks for info. If it's only a day, that's fine. I was afraid it would take much longer.

If people got paid in BTC they would spend them on regular comodities too. Unfortunately if you own Bitcoin, most likely you paid for it with fiat, so most likely you are going to treat it as something rare, not worth spending it in something mundane so you rather hoard it. Thats what I do unless I find a way to get paid with BTC.

Only if countries disappear. What makes you think that countries would just abandon their currency for one they cannot control?

If all world trade starts happening in BTC and there are tangible benefits associated with adopting BTC, I am sure countries will have an open mind.

How do they protect themselves from fake direct deposits? or direct deposits that end up getting returned for various reasons? or do they only accept direct deposits from certain employers?

From what someone else mentioned, they are working directly with the payroll companies. So it is likely that they know when the payroll company releases the money, from which company and for which employee. At the very least, when they receive the deposit they see the company that did the deposit.

It does not look very easy to duplicate so they will likely not see competition soon, and it is not something that will be easy to copy in other companies unless you work in the payroll industry.

If you convert all your salary into BTC and sell some of them in localbitcoins.com for day to day living, you might break the law if your total transaction is over certain limit.

Which law allows you to sell something but only up to a certain amount?

I think so in the US. If your transaction is too high, then you are a money transmitter.

I'm not in the US. p2p transactions are legal where I live

Got paid at a rate of $212/BTC this paycheck. Needless to say, my bitcoin amount was much higher than last paycheck.

Great! I hope you will get fewer and fewer BTC in the future. Just another way to say BTC will rise.

Keep it low for a bit for his sake and then have it rise. Let him accumulate some for taking this sort of task on! =)

Does bitwage take any fees out?

not during Beta

I wonder if this can be done with other things that are not exactly wages? For example revenue from AirBNB?

They ask for a payroll company. They work directly with payroll companies.

The awesome thing about getting paid in Bitcoin is how much larger one's paychecks become when the price is low.

How tough was it to adjust to the loss of value of your 12/31 paycheck and 1/14?

I think your effort and intent is bold and important, but the reality is that the value of all products and services is still based on fiat prices. If your 12/31 paycheck earned you BTC10 (at $319 per BTC) and the USD price per BTC is $174 on 1/14 you've lost half of your purchasing power from that 12/31 paycheck. How do you handle that?

Your 10 coins from 12/31 can only buy $1740 in goods and service, compared to your hypothetical $3190 pay two weeks earlier.

People who don't live paycheck-to-paycheck don't need to worry about short term price volatility.

Suppose someone gets paid twice per month. On the same day they get paid, they should buy enough national currency to cover their next two weeks of expenses, and save the rest of their bitcoins.

Sure, the purchasing power of their savings will be volatile, but the point of having savings is for their future purchasing power, not their present purchasing power. If they needed to be spent right away they wouldn't be savings.

Really wish this was available in other countries and no strickly the usa.

Very well said.

I would be willing to take a 5% cut just to have this service available to me in my country the US are blessed

With dollar cost averaging if I were to spend the exact same every paycheck then it would even out.

But, with volatility I am able to re-think my spending based on the price. If the price drops I might avoid going out to eat that week or hold off on a big purchase. If the price goes up I can treat myself to a nice night out or something I have been wanting for a while.


But I do not live paycheck to paycheck, I did this knowing I have enough to last me about a year or so. My only bills are my rent, my mortgage (which is being paid by an incoming rent check) and gas/food. My rent is about $1k euro which is nice since the euro has fallen a lot against the dollar. Gas costs me about $50 per month, food about 200 euro. My monthly income is over 5 times those monthly bills.

If I want to play it safe, I spend my bitcoins as close to payday as possible. I bought a video game yesterday and by spending bitcoins I got an 8% discount. The price was down about 5% from Friday, so I still come out ahead.

Just checked this directly with them: it works with AirBNB.

I would recommend using bitreserve.org where you can hold your bitcoin in dollars or pounds so you are protected against volatility your money would stay the same in $ or £ but its on the bitcoin network.

Seriously? How would that work if, say, I hypothetically were to put one billion € worth of bitcoins in Bitreserve. And then -again, hypothetically- the price plunges (because China bans Bitcoin or whatever) and the total market cap of Bitcoin goes below one billion €. How much bitcoins are they now storing for me on the Bitcoin network?

Don't get me wrong, I highly appreciate services like Bitreserve as they can help a lot in getting new users in while covering their risk. But don't be delusional about how this works: they store fiat, not bitcoins.

The volatility actually helps in the long run.

I get paid once every 2 weeks. If the price drops during that time I cut back on my spending. If the price goes up I spend more (pay my monthly bills, pay for trips I'm planning, buy something online I'd had my eye on).

Over time, doing this is better than just dollar cost averaging.

(I just wish I was at home to pay my hosting service when the price jumped up over $300, by the time I got home from a long flight the price was back down)

The price is up over the $231 rate I was paid on Friday so I will probably plan my Valentine's weekend trip today.

If you are simply employed, rather than holding independent contractor status, fill out a new W-4 form every time the IRS comes out with a new one. If you are not in the U.S., you need to do something similar with whatever forms you use. The exceptions are that if you are NOT in a common law country, or if the language is not English, do your research before you do this that I am about to tell you.

1. Download and print out a 2015 W-4. You can find it located here http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw4.pdf.

2. Write out the W-4 in longhand. Fill in your name, address and SSN in all caps. Do it in blue ink by writing it out yourself, by hand, rather than filling in the blanks using a computer or typewriter.

3. Over the marriage status section print the word "non-assumpsit" in lower case. Don't check any of the marriage status boxes.

4. In the number "4" box, print "non-assumpsit" as in the number "3" box.

5. In the big box that holds numbers 5, 6, and 7, print "non-assumpsit" across it. On the number "7" line, print "exempt" in lower case.

6. Sign and date as usual, except that I would recommend signing in all lower case... even the first letters of each part of your name.

NOTE: Be sure that you have filled all this out by hand, in blue ink, without using a computer and printer.

7. Make, say, a half dozen color copies.

8. Keep the original unaltered in your personal files at home or wherever. Print the word "COPY," slanted, and in red, across each of the 6 copies. Or use a "COPY" stamp that you can buy at an office supply store.

9. Certify mail, return receipt, a copy to your employer. If you work for a large company/corporation, you might mail several copies, one to the CFO of the company, another to the accounting department, a third to your local place of employment if you work at a branch of your company that is not the main branch.

Non-assumpsit means "no contract."

Generally, your employer is supposed to keep W-4 on file, except if the IRS requests a copy of it.

If your employer continues to withhold taxes after you have done this, you have a legitimate legal claim against your employer. If you don't work for the government, your employer is supposed to obey your wishes as listed on the W-4.

If your employer decides to deduct, the deductions must NOT be withheld from your paycheck. Rather, they must be separate funds that your employer sends to the IRS per any agreement he has with them.

If the IRS tells him to disregard your W-4... they don't have the authority to overrule your wishes. Your agreement for pay is between you and your employer. If he withholds, you have a legitimate legal claim against him.

I'm not going to go into the details of method for making your legal claim. It starts with a batch of letter writing to the CFO as a man, not as the CFO. You give him time to respond by seeing to it that you receive your withheld pay. Ultimately if he is the person who has the authority to see to it that you are paid, you make a claim that you have been damaged, that he has done wrong to you, that he has stolen your property. Do this like you would with any common thief. Or do it like you would for your neighbor who stole a valuable tool of yours and won't return it.

Use common sense in writing your letters. Be friendly and gracious, to the point and brief. Finally, if he won't respond, serve notice on him using a process server. Then start a common law (court of record) proceeding against him, man to man, not man to company Chief Financial Officer. Why not to the CFO? Because a CFO without the man can't do anything. It is the man using the office of the CFO who is damaging you.

Ultimately, if the CFO man will not respond by giving you your property (pay) including expenses entailed for process server, etc., take him to court, man to man, not in his office as CFO.

Search through the Youtube files here http://www.youtube.com/user/765736/videos?view=0&live_view=500&flow=grid&sort=da and here http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5duR4OvEHHxOSdEZhANETw and here http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwyBESRGpm1vZRErvtSmNGg for info that you might do to accomplish the law suit properly.

:)

Of course this is a lie.

When you give your bitcoins to somebody else, they sell them on the market and hold $ or £.

When you want your money returned, they buy back the $ or £ value at current market prices and give them back to you.

Giving your bitcoins to somebody else to hold on for you "protected against volatility" is loaning your coins to short sellers, except in this case you generally pay them for the privilege of borrowing your coins to short with instead of getting paid interest.

Imagine your paycheck was generated during a flash crash... oh my..

If you are not in the US you can fill out a 673 and check either the Bona Fide Residence Test, or a Physical Presence Test. They will stop taking out taxes until you reach $100k for the year.

Interesting. How much is the fee? Would be a disaster if bitcoin plummeted... It's a risky gamble. Would you mind disclosing how many bitcoins you get? At least do tell the number of digits... How do you pay bills though? Is there a service that helps you pay bills in fiat in exchange for bitcoins?

No fee during Beta. It would not be a disaster if bitcoin plummeted, I get paid every 2 weeks. I can survive the price going down some over the span of 2 weeks only to have my next paycheck come up less than 2 weeks later.

My last pay two paychecks have been 10 to 13 bitcoins or so.

For bills, there is https://billpayforcoins.com/ but I am not quite keen on their 3% fee, I could use http://www.brawker.com as well. I use localbitcoins to sell bitcoins for euros to pay my rent which includes all utilities. There are several websites I use for day to day spending, here's a breakdown of some of the sites I use regularly: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=943143.0

This is really cool! you dumped your bank :D
I want to do it too but only if i could live w/o my salary for so long :(

You are trully a pioneer. My concern with this tho is, unless one were to be a die hard enthusiast of bitcoin.. the average joe is not going to want such a volatile ass income.

It's not volatile income - it's volatile savings.

There's a big difference between the two, although people who live paycheck-to-paycheck might not know what savings are and so might not recognize the difference.

If a person who is paid regularly in bitcoin buys as much local currency as they'll need before their next paycheck on the same day they get paid and saves the rest, they are not affected by short term volatility.

Wow this is wicked i would love to be paid 100% bitcoin take out what you need to live an you have a good pension to look forward to, (hopefully) good luck dude

Easily one of the best threads ive ever read on this forum.
Hopefully many people(who can) will follow your lead on this.

I tip my hat to you

That's a good point, as long as the BTC is spent quick (like within the pay period) the volatility means less.

Actually, if I have something that can wait I do not buy it with bitcoins until the price is higher than what I was paid that last paycheck.

My last paycheck came in at $230. I am planning a trip to Milan so I bought my plane tickets using Bitcoin when the price was as $235 (coming down from $240). Now I need to book a hotel but the price is below $230 (currently $225) so I can wait until either the price is back above $230 or I get paid again.

Unless I have a pressing bill, spending this way will always have me spending when the price is higher than what I was paid. And if the price jumps up a lot, I buy things I've been putting off for a while.

That's totally Awesome idea .
Thanks man! i will soon try them too :D

You have a truly 'Legendary' set-up for payday, Elwar. Congrats on getting closer to being free from your bank.  :)

How do u pay your taxes then?? do u pay tax at all?

For last year I have taxes but I was getting money taken out of my paycheck and I will likely be close to getting money back.

For this year I will probably not have any income taxes to pay from living overseas. But I will surely (for any taxman watching) pay my Bitcoin taxes for any gains like a good comrade.

We do need a Bitcoin service that allows people to pay or get paid from the IRS. That would be the final step. The way Bitwage is set up they could probably set up a direct deposit for your tax refund. A Bitcoin bill pay service could probably be used to pay it, or going through Brawker.

I'd be curious to know if anyone else has set themselves up on bitwage.co even for 5-10% of their pay.

I hope they are successful and get 10,000 people to do the same.

10k people making on average $50k per year would be $500 million coming into Bitcoin each year. That more than makes up for the current mining costs of $300 million per year (until it halves next year).

I don't think very many people can afford to save that high of a percentage of their income. And even fewer people can afford to save that much into such a speculative investment as bitcoin

"Normal" people dont think like this. They want something stable.
Otherwise they treat is as some kind of asset, like gold or something, not "Money".

This is actually a really good idea :P

It is only a good idea as long as the price of bitcoin does not fall a lot between the time he gets paid and the time he is able to spend the funds.

where do you live in the world?

curious how easy it is for you to sell for fiat on local bitcoins.

great ! Remember to fuck exchangers too :)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=945881.0

I live in Germany, where localbitcoins is banned. Before it was banned I was getting almost too many people wanting to buy bitcoins because it's so hard to get them here. I charged 10% and that was undercutting other sellers so much that people were driving hours to buy from me.

Now that they shut down access in Germany I have 3 or 4 people that I traded with before that contact me, usually just a bitcoin each time they get paid which is enough for me to pay my rent and some spending money. I actually prefer this because I did not want to start turning people down for trades and risk my localbitcoins reputation but I was getting too cash heavy and am not comfortable dropping more than 10k euros in my bank account. I meant to use it as a way to get cash for bitcoins, not turn it into a business.

That's a really interesting way to receive your paycheck. Have to check that site out more, but wouldn't dare to use them yet since they are only in beta and we know what has been happening with unfinished sites lately...

The worst that could happen is they disappear in that brief window from when I get paid and they send my bitcoins. If that happened then I'd be able to have my company reverse the transaction.

But that window is very small. A matter of hours. It is better than an exchange because once they have my money it is immediately converted to bitcoins, sent to an address in my cold storage.

From all the people i've talked to proposing getting paid in BTC instead of fiat monthly they dont like the idea because when they think bitcoin they think "80% devaulation" so they are scared of it. Unfortunately they arent very bright long term thinkers.

Well its not a matter of long term thinking. You should also realize, they will have to block that money for that many years.

So I just did an average price check for my first six months of getting paid in bitcoin.

Here are the prices for each paycheck for 6 months, once every 2 weeks (BitWage sends an e-mail with the amount of bitcoins and the price so keeping track is easy):
$319
$212
$231
$241
$257
$295
$251
$238
$234
$240
$239
$227
$249
Final average: $246/BTC

Good price compared to present price and probably future price. :D

That's a useful info. Im pretty sure next time you do this the average will be higher.
Are you living on the boat you would say you would buy with your wage in some country where you wouldn't need to pay taxes overy low ones? That sounded really cool.

I'm in a country where I don't pay taxes but not on a boat yet. Working toward something like that...


As for the average being higher, BitWage just released the following info:

If the price goes into bubble territory I can split some of my paycheck into gold/silver or some other currency.

That's very cool that all of those currency and precious metal options are available along with Bitcoin.  Is there a fee associated with using this service?  I'm assuming a currency/foreign exchange fee?

I'm gonna do it. As in starting this month. I'm still keeping my bank account until I iron stuff out but I'm gonna start using bitwage for my salary.

I'm not sure, I just signed up for the BitShare service and they also offer a link to a Xapo debit card so I signed up for that. I would think that each has their own fees, I will verify after trying them out.