Bitcoin Forum

Why are FPGAs considered "custom hardware" but GPUs are not?

I mine on (among other things) one of these boards, which were on sale before bitcoin existed:

  http://www.xilinx.com/univ/xupv5-lx110t.htm

Why is that considered "custom" yet mining on an ATI graphics card isn't?

I understand that the old naming scheme was not ideal, but the new one is actually worse.  If you mean "everything that isn't a CPU or GPU" then say that -- I can't say that I think that's a good organizational scheme, but at least it's self-consistent.

They should have just created a new group - ASIC and left FPGA alone.

I think hardware should be hardware, the root being cpus and gpus that are part of the normal pc hardware.

There should also be a separate section for FPGA and separate ASIC (or speculation since there are no mining ASIC atm)

kind regards

I own at least three different normal PCI cards (two network, one graphics, off the top of my head) with FPGAs on them.  You probably haven't noticed how often FPGAs are part of your "normal pc hardware".

The current classification really is "mining using devices made by companies who spend a lot of money on advertising to consumers" vs "everything else".  I really can't think of any other reason why GPUs are not "custom" and FPGAs are.

my gpu doesn't need to be programmed to mine.  there's no firmware update and no bitstream.

Wha?  This is just plain false.  Your GPU won't mine unless you upload code written in OpenCL/CUDA.

Calling it "shader code" instead of "firmware" or "bitstream" is just a matter of terminology.

Here's the source code (https://github.com/Diablo-D3/DiabloMiner/blob/master/src/main/resources/DiabloMiner.cl) for the part of DiabloMiner that is written in OpenCL and gets compiled and uploaded to the card.

"Custom hardware" means hardware built specifically for the task of mining.

Standard FPGA development boards are not custom hardware.
GPGPUs are not custom hardware.

But if someone designs a PCB for FPGA or even attaches his own casing or power supply for standard boards it's custom hardware.

If that's the case, why haven't all the threads about multi-GPU machines been moved into this subforum (seriously, does anybody use a machine with four video cards for gaming?)



If that's the case, why haven't the threads about ztex's boards been moved out of this subforum?  He was selling them as standard development boards long before anybody (even him) was mining on them.

If that's the case, haven't the threads about FPGA bitstream development been moved out of this subforum?  The verilog code for fpgaminer's miner ran on (and still runs on) standard FPGA development boards before it ran on "custom" hardware.

I'm not actually asking for any of this to happen; I'm just pointing out that, based on their (in)actions, the forum moderators do not apparently agree with your (totally reasonable) definition of "custom hardware".

Now I know what eldentyrell does everyday instead of making his bitstream to work on enterpoint boards. He is being a smartass

It does work on enterpoint boards.  You just need to use a JTAG cable.  If you want to use their proprietary USB interface, tell them to hurry up and submit a driver.



No, I'm pointing out the fact that the subforum renaming was done poorly.  And suggesting that it be redone.

You twit, the thread relates to boards and moderation, so that's why it stays in Meta.

How much MH/s do you get on the LX110?

thanks

agree on the naming fail..  shortbus style

Nowhere near its capacity.  I'm running a truly ancient version of my code.  Since I only own one of those boards the return-on-time-spent-optimizing is very, very low.

I did pick up three desoldered LX110 chips (not boards) super-cheap… if I ever get around to mounting those on PCBs I'll probably go back and try to improve the performance.

Has anybody started a poll on the subforum naming situation?

If not, I will…. let me know if we need other options besides these

  - Hardware>FPGA
  - Hardware>Not-GPU-or-CPU
  - Hardware>FPGA-or-ASIC
  - Hardware>FPGA and Hardware>ASIC
  - Hardware>FPGA and Hardware>VLSI
  - Hardware>FPGA and Hardware>Speculative (w/ intent to create Hardware>ASIC once one is 3rdparty-verified)
  - eldentyrell should remove 2112 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=33083) from his ignore list

It's tempting to include an option for a GPU subforum, but I think that's best done as a separate poll.  This one is mostly meant to resolve the "where do discussions of not-yet-released ASIC products go".

(and no, I'm not moving this to Meta; the people most affected by this are the people who read the Hardware forum.  Nobody but the mods reads Meta so it's a really dumb place for polls).

- eldentyrell suffers from OCD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsessive%E2%80%93compulsive_disorder)
- eldentyrell suffers from OCPD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsessive%E2%80%93compulsive_personality_disorder)
- eldentyrell should watch "As good as it gets"
- eldentyrell should take a marketing class
- eldentyrell should take a library science class
- eldentyrell should socialize with some business school students

Thank you for confirming that there is absolutely no correlation between the name of the subforum and the partitioning of threads between it and its parent forum.  Possibly even negative correlation.

Why not:

1) PURPOSE-BUILT Hardware (ASIC, FPGA, Time Machines, Vibrators, Sex Robots)
2) MULTI-PURPOSE Hardware (GPUs, Wodden Sticks, Sporks, George Foreman Grille)

Man, the Digilent boards are about as custom as the other FPGA hardware sold here. Digilent wouldn't exist without continuous support from the marketing funds of XLNX, which acts as a rich daddy and organizes group purchases by the educational institutions.

That XUPV5 board that eldentyrell had linked to is even more custom than any other Digilent's product. They were given away for free by SUNW/JAVA in an attempt to position SPARC as an open industry standard. If not for the marketing budget of Sun Microsystems only a handfull would ever be sold. The price tags on them are just for show and tax deduction purposes.

Dear eldentyrell!

Please don't turn yourself into another copy of Luke-Jr. There's no point to gain from antagonizing anyone here. We all know that you've call-ed the bluff on the PR web front. But the opponent had bigger bankroll, better poker skills and raise-d over your call. It is unsporstmanlike and ungentlemanly when you try to upturn the table after the game on that table turned against you. Now just do like everyone else: wait for the showdown to see if this was bluff or semi-bluff.

Anyway, you are a pure software vendor and you have several times already said that you aren't willing to work with hardware vendors on porting your software.

Why would the moderators of this forum need to listen to your lectures on how the hardware subforums should be organized? Just move to the mining software subforum if you really can't stand the heat here.

Thank you for your attention to this matter.

Because FPGA is multi-purpose. So it could be something like this

1) Off-the shelf hardware (GPUs, FPGA dev boards, standard cases)
2) Bitcoin-specific hardware (ASICs, custom FPGA boards/kits, framework cases)

I'd call dev-kits custom.

The clue's in the name: Development Kit.

They're like, for development. They're not an end-user product. They are custom.
Even calling them COT is a stretch.

I'm comfortable with the forum name.

Dev kits are as custom as they come, but they're not custom mining hardware.

Yeah I doubt many of them would mine without power issues if you used an optimized bitstream.

I agree 100%.