Bitcoin Forum

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/heres-what-to-expect-from-the-silk-road-trial?utm_source=mbfb

Is there any doubt he is the mastermind at this stage, lets hope they go easy on him but i fear it cant get any better then shrem.

You don't doubt that he's the mastermind yet you think he should get off easy?  He's a criminal that probably deserves to spend a very long time in prison.

I don't think they have to do too much 'proving' as it seems it's pretty clear he was responsible and they pretty much caught him red handed, but what is interesting is what charges he can weasel out of if any and how long he gets. I'll be following this trial closely.

It will be interesting to see what actually sticks. The literal "throwing the book" plus Dick Francis, Tom Clancy, Clive Cussler etc fictional embellishments, trick is getting "old".

From http://www.justice.gov/usao/nys/pressreleases/February14/RossUlbrichtIndictmentPR/US%20v.%20Ross%20Ulbricht%20Indictment.pdf:

---

In court...

Judge: How do you plead?

Ross: I require pen and paper, and leave of court for 5 minutes to prepare my answer.

Judge: Granted.

---

Firstly: i, a man, ross william ulbright, am not represented, do not represent myself, am present.

Secondly: If any man/woman claim wrongdoing angainst me, i wish, order and demand that man/woman present and verify his/her claim against me in open court of record.

Thirdly: If no man/woman verify claim against me, and/or;

Fourthly: if verified claim is not attached to me, then;

Fifthly: i require return of my property, and;

Sixthly: i require payment to me in the amount of Two Million Dollars ($2,000,000) in repayment for enslavement and involuntary servitude, by UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

Seventhly: i, say here, and will verify in open court, that all herein be true.

---

The attorney for the United States is sworn in and takes the stand.

Ross: Are you UNITED STATES OF AMERICA?

Attorney: No. I have been authorized by the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA to present the case before you.

Ross: Do you have a claim of wrongdoing that I did against you, that you will verify here today in open court?

Attorney: No. I am here to present complaints by the UNITED STATES...

Ross to the judge: Your honor, since this attorney is not the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA as attested to by his own testimony, and since he (she) has claimed by testimony that i have done no wrong to him(her), i wish require this attorney to step down from the stand.

[The attorney steps down.]

Ross: As stated in my NOTICE TO THE COURT, "If any man/woman claim wrongdoing angainst me, i wish, order and demand that man/woman present and verify his/her claim against me in open court of record."

[Nobody takes the stand]

Ross: As stated in my NOTICE TO THE COURT, "i require return of my property. i require payment to me in the amount of Two Million Dollars ($2,000,000) in repayment for enslavement and involuntary servitude, by UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

---

Obviously things wouldn't go quite as smoothly as this, but with the help of Karl Lentz at http://www.broadmind.org/ this process can have Ross done and out of court very rapidly, with return of freedom, and return of his property.

If the courts fail to follow their own rules, Karl will have Ross earning a lot more than $2,000,000 off them. Somebody needs to slip Ross a note telling him that he is being screwed by his attorneys, and that he should contact Karl. Karl is a free man, so nobody knows for sure what he might do. But there's a good chance Karl would love this opportunity, and if he does, he will charge only a token fee for his services, far less than any attorneys, yet having far greater success.

:)

NO

You are mistaken...about quite....many....things....you do not deserve to be in my sacred digital homeland.

Fuck off bagholder.

From "How to handle an Arraignment" at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy8w3wrvHsY :
:)

They caught the dude swith his laptop open signed in as administrator. He was facilitating the sale of drugs online and not paying taxes on his earnings.

Last time I checked those are serious crimes.

He knew what he was doing and took the risk anyway.

Don't cry for him.

They are not crimes. People might call them crimes, but they are not.

They are code violations. Unless he is employed by government, or unless he is a government official, or unless he has signed a contract with government to not do what he did, he is not liable for code violations.

Nobody is liable for code violations without a contract. People are only liable for "wrongdoing," which is harming someone or damaging his property. The reason government wins in cases like this is, few people stand up as a man/woman and require their rights.

:)

You're addressing people who actually think anarchy is a viable social solution.  Good luck with that.   ;D

He did damage the goverment "property" as he didn't pay taxes from his "shop".

This is poor advice and rarely works in real life. Courts don't respect common law and the justice system is corrupt and rarely follow their own laws. It is far better to get a high priced lawyer who knows how to manipulate popular opinion and the corrupt system or not participate at all.

Good for him, he was an important instrument in taking drugs and violence off the streets and providing a valuable service to millions.

That's right. Things like this don't "work."

When a judge or attorney or prosecutor goes against the law and the rules of the court, he has to shut you up fast. Why? Because you have your copy of his actions that you can uses against him. And if he doesn't take you out right then and there, you will come and take him out by using his own stuff against him, as proof positive that he acted unlawfully.

Karl doesn't get messed with. No judge is going to outguess him. He has enough experience and guts that the judge will only dig himself in deeper.

The neat thing about this is, Karl is training a whole bunch of us to do the same things that he does. And because there are a bunch of us now, we all stand together, holding up the legal actions of each other.

Stay in the slavery if you want. But there are a whole bunch of us who don't like it this way. And we are doing something about it, legally and lawfully.

:)

DPR knew the risks and is getting unfairly punished.  DPR is not much different than a "Sovereign Citizen."  These beliefs, while contrary to law, are not something we need to spend millions prosecuting.  Paying your taxes is an obligation and not paying them is a crime (while taking all of the benefits of tax payment).  At the same time, he's no Aaron Swartz but it is an injustice to punish him so severely for a victimless crime.  He did displace violent criminals with an operation that catered to demands from adult humans willing to also undertake risks.  Society needs to better implement its laws to avoid injustice at all ends of the spectrum.

Also everybody has right to do whatever they want (with their body for example) as long as they don't harm other so why are drugs forbidden but most harmful one (alcohol) to society and the body is legal one?

I am an anarchist and believe your intentions are well placed but my suggestion is made because many of my brethren have been locked up and harmed using these common law techniques.

watch this or read the book for some background into what happens when you play by their rules:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw3-s172yA4

The battle is better fought from outside of a cage than from within.

Paying your taxes isn't the question. Obviously, if the taxes are yours, then pay them. The question is, how do taxes get to be yours? The answer is, one way. You agree that they are yours. That's it. If you don't agree, then they aren't yours.

The IRS and law enforcement will make all kinds of threats, tell you all kinds of lies, put all kinds of pressure on you, until they trick you into saying that the taxes are yours. Once you believe they are yours, there is little way for you to be convinced that they are not. Why? Because you BELIEVE it.

Go the other direction. Make them prove that the taxes are yours. Then, drop back on the common law and get them, as people, to show you the damage and harm you have done to them individually when you don't pay. Did they get cut? Did they get a broken bone? How were they harmed? Prove it and prove that it was you that harmed them.

Quit playing devil's advocate for a bunch of IRS and government criminals that are trying to make slaves of us all.

:)

That's right. So, don't play it by their rules.

Their rules are the IRS Code. These aren't your rules. Common law of harm and damage is your rules.

:)

Fuck the IRS and fuck taxation.

The force is weak with you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h88XPrvHaNE

This is correct. It's about time we get "them" off our backs, by using the things of the Constitution that allow us to do so... against them.

Study Karl and understand, before you jump into anything.

:)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oYlJCbqqq8

:)

The problem is that the sovereign citizen movement is attempting to outsmart judges and prosecutors by playing by some of their rules that they sometimes use. The judges and prosecutors don't care for these tactics and they will either ignore them or get angry and punish those using these techniques.

There may be a few cases where it has helped but in a majority of the cases using common law techniques makes things much worse for the defendant.

If you are arrested you already lost and your goal is to try and minimize the damage as quickly as possible. We don't need any more examples to show the hypocrisy and duplicity of the justice system. We want non violent peaceful people free as soon as possible.

Correct. This is why not to play by their rules. When you make a claim against a person who has harmed you or cheated you out of something, and you take it to court, it is your court. You make the rules.

Don't play in their court. Don't play by their rules. Make your claim, even if it is right in their court when you are asked how to plead. Come back with a claim.



Wrong. You may have lost for a short time. But ultimately, they will bring you to court. Reverse the thing and turn it into your claim, if at no other time, then when you are asked to plead. This is the thing that is being done here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=922181.msg10127507#msg10127507 :
If you have already been through a jury trial, it may be all over for you. Ross hasn't yet. There is hope for him. But not if he plays by their rules.

:)

Braveheart was a movie about the reasons that the current common law was brought into being. It doesn't have anything to do with us today... except if we want it to. That's why I am telling you now. You have time to learn the ways of common law. Karl is one of the best teachers. Start learning.

:)

Can you cite any cases where these techniques have proved successful? What percentage of the time they are effective?

Rights are claimed, not argued. Now this forum sucks with these 5 minute rules, but the more you know.

The only one I have off the tip of my tongue is the O.J. Simpson trial. Everybody knows and knew that he was guilty. The reason he remained free was that they couldn't find anyone from law enforcement that would verify under oath that the lab specimens had not been tampered with. The chain of guilt was broken at that point. The common law in the case was simple. Yet it broke the whole case for the government.

Most of the time there is little recorded about a common law case. Government dismisses before there is anything to record. Go through Karl's stuff. You will be able to track down some cases if you work at it.

Listen here http://recordings.talkshoe.com/TC-127469/TS-932424.mp3, but you may feel that you have wasted your time.

:)

Exactly! That's why Karl says to avoid using complaints, or diddling around in their complaint case. Rather, make a claim case of your own. It is the way you exercise your rights.

:)

If you are citing the OJ trial than you are agreeing with me. Perhaps, Cochran did use some common law techniques , but he had a whole bag of tricks to get OJ off . So yes, hire a sleazy attorney like Cochran and not a guy like Karl to get you off.

I am listening to other recordings you have provided me now and they sound very familiar examples of techniques friends have used that have led them into more problems and larger sentences with the court. There are many anarchists in the free state project who initially tried these techniques and none of them worked.

If O.J. did it the way Karl suggests, he would have been out of jail and on the streets inside of a month, completely free and innocent. Actually, I don't know much about the trial, but it would have been over fast.

The interesting thing about this is, if you have a friend or relative in prison for virtually nothing, especially if there never was a jury trial, you can help him/her reopen the case, do it by common law on looking for testimony of harm or damage, requiring the judge to return your property (your friend or relative) to you, and get him/her out of there. Study Karl's stuff. There's enough free info on Youtube to do this. But use your head real well.
http://www.youtube.com/user/765736/videos?view=0&live_view=500&flow=grid&sort=da
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwyBESRGpm1vZRErvtSmNGg
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5duR4OvEHHxOSdEZhANETw

:)

Thus far you have suggested Johnnie Cochran as a lawyer who had success which is exactly what my original recommendation was. Avoid being arrested and if arrested get a professional high priced sleazy lawyer or just try and minimize the damage as much as possible with a plea deal.

Let me know when you have an example of someone wining a case or avoiding trouble doing as Karl suggests.

Until than their is a whole bunch of videos online of people getting destroyed using some of these techniques:
https://www.youtube.com/user/FreeKeene/videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InTr2i3JqEE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfVbiefMdNU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnGXnysFkdU

All the best Ross, you got a long road ahead of you mate.
Fuck all the people here putting you down, you didn't push drugs, you helped people who wanted to score get them and that should not be a crime in my books, ok maybe you went a bit over the top with hiring the hitman (if true) but still a legend to many.

Try get a hold of a laptop or mobile while inside and tells us the truth, you still have a lot of support in the community.
Keep your spirits up!

All people are sovereign. Unfortunately, the folks in these videos tried to make sovereignty into something that it isn't. They certainly didn't attempt to do what they are doing anything like Karl would have. For example. Read the things starting at the top right of this website, http://www.unkommonlaw.co.uk/.

:)

I agree with you in principle , but the people who end up kidnapping and torturing you are not principled.
I understand you are suggesting that Karl has the special formula for attacking things the right way . What I am curious is are example of it working, and until than it is just a hypothesis.

This video is fun. Watch Karl https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twn96nj0jfw&index=10&list=PLHrkQxgz0mg6kUBciD-HIvTXByqjcIZ-D .

:)

What would Mighty Dready do if he were here right noW?
He'd probably kick an ASS or two, that's what Mighty Dready'd do

Like the time he went to Canada, to fight the bitcoin bears
He wrestled them and skinned them alive to line his underwear
Or the time he went to Mexico to fight with el Cartel
He found their secret heroin stash, and burned it all to hell

What would Mighty Dready do if he were here right noW?
He'd probably kick an ASS or two, that's what Mighty Dready'd do

When Benjamin Lawsky Crossed him
DREADY PUNCHED HIM IN THE FACE
Cause Mighty Dready DOESN'T TAKE SHIT FROM
ANY
BODY

What would mighty dready do if he were here right now?
He'd probably kick an ass or two...............
Cause that's how Mighty Dready do!

I watched it and do not believe this story happened because insulting a judge multiple times and being insolent in traffic court is unlikely to ever win. There is a conflict of interest here because Karl is selling a story which is selling his business. Either Karl needs to provide video or audio evidence of these cases or I would like to see examples from third parties with evidence of cases like I have provided.

Additionally, I hope I am wrong and you are right because we have the same goals... I have just seen too many cases where these techniques have been disastrous.

Fuck Karl....this is of little importance.

How about you stop protecting the US. You know that they have done more wrongdoing to men than any man has ever done to anyone else.
Getting a life sentence for what he has done? Ridiculous.

Charles Schumer should be on trial here , not Ross Ulbricht.  He's the real criminal

Well, I'm sure we'll be getting a slew of media articles coming out about this soon so considering how negative the outcome could be for Ross, it could have a positive impact on pricing. However, this could be the perfect opportunity for traders to dump and take us down a notch prior to a launch of some kind. Just speculating of course, wish Ross the best luck possible.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/66fa5a738a3f24e39985084eafe7b203/tumblr_mkcazty7Qi1s5ti09o1_500.gif

http://25.media.tumblr.com/66fa5a738a3f24e39985084eafe7b203/tumblr_mkcazty7Qi1s5ti09o1_500.gif

None of us want to be in his position now, but I can imagine it was tons of fun for DPR when the times were good.



Somewhere around here you can find a few people who would love to be "in his position"...

I guess I'm going to have to go with Karl on this one. Kinda like he says in the video, who am I to interfere with what a man/woman believes?

By the way, if Karl needs to prove something, I'm sure he'll do so.

 :D

OMG you and Karl.....can we just help undermine the US' plan to quietly crucify DPR here? This is such a distraction

All right! That's the spirit, sort of. Make some distractions to keep the U.S. from crucifying DPR! Does the U.S. really crucify people? Like on a cross and all that? You said "OMG." He certainly knows what crucifixion is all about.

 :D

EDIT: I know, I know. You really don't want DPR to have success. C'mon, admit it.

I am not sure what meth you are smoking sir, but I will smoke it it with you and support your right to pay for it in BTC and receive it in the the mail.

Aluha Gabrah!

And you are monumetally stupid.

Nah, there could be a plethora of masterminds and this trial, I'd like to think, will get to the bottom of the whole situation. If Ross really is a libertarian, I can't believe he'd be liable for a murder-hire as the NAP wouldn't stand up under this.

The Libertarian Party calls for dismissal of the unfounded criminal charges against alleged Silk Road founder and operator Ross Ulbricht

https://www.lp.org/news/press-releases/lawmakers-and-silk-road-investigators-prosecutors-are-the-real-perps?utm_source=iContact&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Libertarian%20Party&utm_content=20150112+GENPR+Silk+Road

They caught this dude red handed at a library with his computer admin panel still up.  Lol.  He's toast.

You can get 25 years for serving a couple pounds of cocaine.  Running a billion+ dollar cp/drug society = he won't be seeing daylight for most likely the majority of his adult life. 

His only, and I mean only hope to escape a life sentence is if they offer him some kind of plea deal where he works with the fbi to crack down against illicit btc operations.   Which, I could actually see happening.

If Mighty Dready rats....he will get shanked in prison...and I will laugh.

BUT NO! The chosen one WILL NOT RAT. The force is strong with him.

^^^ trolls will troll and we will all continue to feed them.. sad but true. 

dpr was a crook, fact.

no freedom fighter can deny it deep down, no matter what society you look at. 

sad thing is, the crook thought he was so secure that he left everything open. 

he deserves to fry to teach other crooks to be more careful in this modern age of "the hacker can get hacked"

Mighty Dready is freedom

"If somebody crosses my line, I will be the one to decide their punishment" ~Gaahl~

Take that non-aggression principle shit, and stick it back up your arse.

You are wrong. You sound like one of those redemption theory pseudolegal conspiracy theorists. He broke laws. Whether or not you agree is irrelevant.

Oh I agree. The only thing that pisses me off about what he did is that he wasn't (or couldn't) pay taxes on his earnings. But what we "think" or "feel" is irrelevant. There are laws, and he broke them. He was not a freedom fighter he was an opportunists. He did it for the money. Don't fool yourself.

lmao...I'm just wondering what kind of shuffling gait the inmate that managed to successfully keister a netbook into prison would look like.

As for DPR's plight.  I suspect he will have the proverbial book thrown at him to be sure.  They will try and make an example out of him to dissuade potential future DPR's from taking his place.

Well obviously your jails are more secure than ours her because whatever you want the warden will bring it in for you, at a price.

This seems like good timing, Ross goes to trial today and silk road is back online as silkroadreloaded.i2p.

I don't see the government offering any kind of plea deal in exchange for corporation to help take down others. The reason those kinds of plea deals are made is to try to convict "bigger fish" however the operator of Silk Road1 is pretty much the biggest fish in the online illegal drug world.

I would say his chances of being found not guilty would lie on the chances that evidence will be thrown out because it was obtained illegally

That's a good point.  They may just throw the book at him in order to set a precedence and try and cast a public black eye on the currency.  We all know how the US government generally feels about cryptos right now..

I think they have thrown the book at him. I don't think they will outright not accept any plea deal at all, however there will not be part of any deal that involves him trying to help catch someone "bigger". The government may offer a deal that would involve in pleeding guilty in exchange for a lesser sentence so the government would not need to bear the expense of trying him and risk loosing on 4th amendment appeals.

We do?

Of course! The government loves crypto. In fact, they're trading tons of it themselves, and they don't have a bigger brother to oversee them.

He's not pleading guilty though. He's admitted to creating it but seems to be trying to say he passed ownership onto someone else. I don't see how they're gonna buy that when they caught him red handed logged in as DPR.

ONE:  Self-reliant and free access to drugs and healthcare are an inalienable right according to Thomas Jefferson's opinion of the United States constitution, which is frankly, the only one that matters.

TWO : I give two shits

THREE : THE MAN HE TRIED TO KILL I DECLARE TO BE AN ENEMY OF THE REPUBLIC. He was going to reveal the identities of all SR users. If I were DPR...I'd have done the same thing. Allah u Akbar

Lol, 1 billion a year being exchanged on an online drug site is Small Change compared to what some drug cartels exchange yearly. Yes, Ross's Silk Road was the biggest drug exchange ever on the internet, but it is very far from being the biggest drug operation ever. Leaders of drug cartels have been making billions since the early 1900s, Ross is nothing in comparison.

Silk Road stunner: Ulbricht admits founding the site, but says he isn’t DPR - http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/01/ulbricht-admits-he-founded-silk-road-but-says-he-isnt-dread-pirate-roberts/ .

:)

EDIT: Government has to look good. They have to look useful. And that is besides all the money they stand to rake in. So they'll frame anybody they can.

I don't think many of these drug cartels are located in the US. Even if they were located in the US it would be very difficult for Ross to help catch and prosecute them because the government already has most/all of the evidence he could potentially turn over in the silk road servers

Good joke... "Ulbricht admits founding the site, but says he isn’t DPR" hahaha

http://www.coindesk.com/mt-gox-ceo-mark-karpeles-implicated-silk-road-trial/

discuss.

Notice, the thread title says "potential" life sentence. Government has a long way to go to prove Ross had anything to do with anything illegal. Their goal is to get Ross to admit to wrongdoing. If they can't do that, he goes free.

In the event government can literally find a string of evidence, where everyone in the string swears that it is the truth, and the string leads back to Ross, and he is found guilty, even if this takes place and Ross stands at sentencing, all he has to say is, "Can anyone come forward who can verify in court that anything I did caused him harm or damage?"

Then, there better be someone who can prove that broken bones, headaches, cuts, bruises (not some silly mental worry-wart turmoil) was done by Ross. If they can't, he still goes free, if he and his attorneys are smart enough so that he can ask the question.

It is a complete uphill battle for the government, if Ross doesn't open his mouth and convict himself... even if he is guilty as all get-out.

:)

Do you have actual experience in the legal system, or are you just spouting theories?
I have several lawyers in my family... And from what they tell me, anything is possible.
It's really up to the judges and juries.

I would never have expected that! You really cannot make this stuff up.

it looks that the trial has bring some really strange possibilities

some times life takes over fiction

it is a bullshit. Ross Ulbricht owned Silk Road. FBI will bring the evidence next weeks. You will see. :)

Karpeles remains a thief and money launderer as most of the Bitcoin exchangers

lol@implying the government can't get their way one way or another.

'Government' and 'uphill' in the judicial system are antonyms.  If you haven't noticed, the government is the judge, juror and executioner.    It's essentially synonymous to suing google in their own in-house legislative court.


Even in your unrealistic dream world scenario, should either of the two magically escape sentencing, then the government always has alternate ways to quietly erase them 'off the map,' so to speak.

They can and will do as they please...without recourse.

And I can't fathom how anyone in their right mind could defend either of the two.  I'd be completely fine with an underground craigslist type selling world that strictly prohibits black market fire arms and hard drugs (no, marijuana isn't a hard drug).   But supporting either one of these ass-clowns is essentially stating your support for heroin addicts and child pornography.  i.e. you are a sick f___  (insert the blank)

However, it was pretty sneaky for his defense to keep this one close to the vest and then drop it on the prosecution during a cross examination of one of their witnesses considering all the collusion between the prosecution team and the judge up til now. None of us know what is really the truth but this shows that Ross has some creative and/or decent attorneys that are smart at muddying the waters and at least keeping the simpletons on the jury on their tip toes on this matter. That was my immediate takeaway value when I saw this.

Very little conclusive personal experience.

Not theories.

Jury is the final authority. If the jury is informed, jury nullification overrules all.

We had no taxes on much of anything before 1936. Now we have all kinds of taxes. People forgot how to use common law to nullify corporate attacks against them, attacks without a human being verifying something, under oath or affirmation, on the stand, with personal knowledge. Instead, we have let the attorneys take over.

There are many people all over the place who are using the law on a small scale to overcome government trampling on human rights. Three places that I have been studying are:
http://1215.org/ - Bill Thornton's work regarding what we are not being taught about common law anymore;
http://www.broadmind.org/ - Karl Lentz, who has taken his own experience and bill Thornton's info, and turned it into a simplified, practical approach;
http://www.johngliha.com/ - To a small extent, the work of John Gliha and the people who trained him back in the mid '90s.

All three of these guys have had their losses and their wins. It has taken this to perfect their use of the law. Get your family lawyers to study their stuff while it is still around. It is my belief that if 5% to 10% of the adult population in the U.S. started to use this stuff, the whole government and banking system would turn around. This might even be part of the stuff that crashes the fiat system in the near future.

:)

It is the ignorance of the people regarding common law that allows government to do this. Essentially, it is so simple. In court, none of the code or law applies to me, a man, unless there is a verified (sworn statement) by a human being who proves that I was the one who harmed or damaged him. Look at the websites in the above ^^ post.

:)

may be true in theory but if the judge doesn't like the line you're taking, he can shut it down, that is just the reality. 

Yes, I understand how burden of proof works.  However, anyone even remotely defending either one of these scumbags or hoping they 'beat the system' are scum themselves.  I could understand if they were martyrs with a good cause like Martin Luther King, but both have nothing but dirty, selfish motives that contribute nothing positive to society with their actions.

If you're a true believer in bitcoin you should be praying both of these scumbags get locked up for good...because they've done much more to tarnish its reputation than to help it flourish.

You need to accept that there will be drug trade regardless of if it is on the streets, over the internet (or over tor), if it is illegal or if it is legal.

The drug trade that took place on silk road (as well as trade that took place over similar darknet sites) was non-violent. This compared to notoriously violent drug trade that takes place on the streets.

I think it is fair to say that reducing violence in the world is a contribution to society 

child porn is non violent through internet too (also it's using Bitcoin)..... with other words, you agree with it... what mentality ! :)

I don't wonder why Bitcoin has a such a BAD press lately.

 Ross Ulbricht created SilkRoad and earned millions from it by using BITCOIN shit. it's a fact.

Now, few mentally diseased people are saying that Karpeles is in fact the owner based on a testimony where a cover agent said "DHS Believed Mt. Gox CEO Might Have Been Silk Road’s Secret Mastermind"

Believed = FBI thought this thing BUT they investigated further and they found the real kingpin, Ross Ulbricht. That's why it's called investigation; to search for evidences.

Why would FBI arrest Ross Ulbricht and not Karpeles ? :)  

Why would't arrest both of them if they are related?  It was very easy for FBI and Interpol to do that.

still no news about his sentence? maybe theres a web where i can follow it

The sentence will be in 2 months.

Maybe the FBI runs the Silk Road.  :)

Ask yourself, Who got hurt? Probably nobody. But if someone did, provide the chain of evidence that the people who were hurt can swear is the truth, which also shows that it was clearly Ross who did the harm. It isn't there. There was no harm done. Nobody will come forward and claim that they were hurt.

This whole thing is about government people and attorneys trying to get legal control of some of Ross's money. They are trying to trick him into making a plea deal out of fear.

If Ross was bad, these government vultures are pure evil. If Ross was good, these government vultures STILL are pure evil.

:)

You really are obsessed with bringing up child pornography frequently, yet calling other people weirdos...? Please go away. Your arguments are nonsensical and rather creepy in nature

I quoted "The drug trade that took place on silk road (as well as trade that took place over similar darknet sites) was non-violent."

If drug dealing is not violent and it is accepted(as someone said), then let's accept child porn too because it's non-violent. it's a total madness what some people are saying :)

Drug dealing is violent. It brings death, it brings nightmares over families and it ruins lives.

I agree with iGotSpots. Your argument is child porn is not violent. Well you're entirely wrong. Violence is not only physical, it can be emotional or mental as well in case you didn't know and, taking advantage of a child like that can lead to heavy emotional damage to them(the spreading and taking of pictures). If you feel that you display pedophilic tendencies, mayax, please see a trained therapist or psychiatrist where you can work on your empathy(Placing yourself in someone else's situation) and more.

I gave an example about child porn (Bitcoin is used by many psychopaths to pay for such things) which is not physical violent.

 Bitcoin industry is full of people like you, fanatics(who only see Bitcoin in front of their eyes without thinking at all) full of morons, scammers, shitheads, drug delears.

 How can you say that drug dealing is NOT violent, crackhead? Did you take some pills today?

" Violence is not only physical, it can be emotional or mental"

Drug dealing is violent (emotional or mental). It brings death, it brings nightmares over families and it ruins lives. Ulbrich developed a website for this thing(selling drugs) and he EARNED a lot of money.

Are you sure you're not on drugs right now? Did I ever mention drug dealing at all? But I think I get what you mean. You were saying that if people think drug dealing isn't violent, then that must mean child porn isn't violent as well, both of which you agree are violent.

I recommend you to read again what ivonna said above, crackhead.

"You need to accept that there will be drug trade regardless of if it is on the streets, over the internet (or over tor), if it is illegal or if it is legal.

The drug trade that took place on silk road (as well as trade that took place over similar darknet sites) was non-violent. This compared to notoriously violent drug trade that takes place on the streets.

I think it is fair to say that reducing violence in the world is a contribution to society "


I made an irony about that, crackhead :)

no one like him and know what him to do . yeaah
DPR

Ok, you have now contradicted yourself several times. You make absolutely no sense. Please go back to school and taking a writing class on how to organize your thoughts properly.

What he did removed violence from the streets..

America should be sued billions and he should be given a medal for pushing freedoms.  "Criminal" is a moronic term.  He shouldn't see a single day and many higher ups in america should never see the light of day ever again.  Making drugs illegal DECIMATES poor communites and poor countries and causes massive violence.

Im all for freedom but you know what can happen if you are selling illegal shit online, he knew what was coming. What do you want people to do? Make a political party and try to change the laws otherwise you know how things work and selling drugs is illegal, and yes I agree it would reduce street violence but I dont make the laws.

It is pretty clear on what he did n there r enough proof for it! I dont think he can weasel out much.

it's so funny that the people are arguing about that.

there are some crackheads here who really think the drugs are good and it's OK if Ross developed a network for that.

"There was no harm done. Nobody will come forward and claim that they were hurt."

let's defense any drug dealer who is using Bitcoin. Anyway Bitcoin is mainly used for illegal things but who cares? the Bitcoin community is "libertarian"  :)

They want no gov, no law, no FED Reserve, anonymity BUT they use centralized exchangers who asked them papers, they have a Foundation, they want a regulated "market", protection EVEN they say something else "2 min."  ago :)

when you ask them about price manipulation, they say "it's like wild west, we don't care, we like to be fucked by exchangers, we do not want rules"... OK !

BUT if an exchanger is running with their money, they call the police even they want "wild west and no gov, no rules".  LOL

The libertarianism can be a 2 sided sword.

alright but BE libertarian till the end. do not be libertarian when you like and "normal" people when you don't like.

assume your beliefs.

 Be Libertarian when someone is running with your funds from a "centralized" exchanger (why did you use it if you want de-centralized exchangers?), be libertarian by not using the banks at all, keep all your money in Bitcoin as you learn everybody else to do it and so on :)

Also, be libertarian and say NO to any regulation and do not scream that you want a regulated market because a libertarian wants "freedom", right? :)

Be hypocrite till the end.

I am not a libertarian but I would like to know what you are because all ideologies have problems and all yours does is seem to make you unhappy and mad at others.

Well, but if wallets were compromised and the gox had to operate with fake numbers after it could have something to do together, no?

I find it amazing how quickly we forget in the United States people are innocent until proven guilty of any charge beyond a reasonable doubt.  Hundreds of years ago that system along with others was set up to prevent injustice by the wise men and women who suffered through those difficult times.  They left us some powerful laws to protect our liberty but few even know or care any longer......

Still that did not prevent the government from 'taking' assets and selling them off before any conviction or chance of appeal of the man facing these serious charges. What impunity the boot of the government steps into peoples lives.
Imagine he stands trial and is not guilty on every charge.  Will he get his time, health, nerves, assets and good name back with the same bravado in which they were stripped away from him ?  It would be impossible.

I never met him but to those calling for his lynching I ask have you ever met him ?

Do you have personal knowledge or evidence that justifies the crimes he is charged with and his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt ? Enough to jail him for life !!!
   
Who are the victims of these serious crimes I hear about ?

Anyone who is familiar with federal government prosecution tactics knows they have over 97% of the people plead guilty who are charged.

That means the 'authorities' in only about 3% of cases have to actally present evidence to a jury that proves anything beyond a reasonable doubt.

 
Why is that.. ... they strip people of assets, jail them, demoralize  them, put pressure on the families and do everything else in their power to strip them of the rights they have under the Constitution  of the United States ..........They file charges that are designed only to strike fear into the mind of anyone charged with a crime......

Pleading guilty gets a 5 year prison term, pleading innocent the person can face 100 years usually of trumped up charges.....

The criminal justice system in America is a large machine , a big bad business with an almost unlimited checkbook to expand operations.  It is run for profit for corporations and government agencies each with their own agendas.


I have no doubt there are few honourable men and women working for the prison/industrial/complex and partners the unlimited police departments in America trying to to what they believe is just and earn an honest living.

For the majority I guess they go along since it is a job for them and they care not for what is right or wrong.

There are probably some who actully delight in the ruin of other human lives.

Please , remember I am not taking  one side or another here in the trial of this man.

Unlike others I do not presume he did  something wrong since .....ohhhhhhh the police would  never arrest an innocent man........

ohhhhhh I saw it on tv,     ohhhhhhh i read all about it.
.
A few days ago another well known man was handed a 5 year prison term for providing a link  to something on the internet.

I would urge the almost all 'male' crowd who frequent the forum to consider your own hide if you cannot find a compassionate thought for someone you never met.

Until the trends that are running out of control right now in the name of LAW AND ORDER can be reversed to the fair and great justice system they mutated out of none of us are safe and could be taken away at any time.

Just try to remember that the next time you have the urge to follow the mob psychology and voice demands to 'lock them up and throw away the key' ......   

It is not by mistake schools in America today are run like  prisons.  The young  are being conditioned.
They may haul all our asses off someday if current trends continue.   

to me it looks like they got him pretty well covered... again I dont see him as a crook or criminal, he brought some interesting points to the table, but the shadow of a doubt is quickly fading.. unless his defense can pull a rabbit out of a hat, the confession of his friend with chat logs is going to be hard to dispute...

Further, basic law throughout the States requires that the plaintiff appear and take the stand to testify if the defendant so demands. The plaintiff in this case is the United States of America. It will never be able to take the stand and testify.

Further, basic law says that there must be harm or damage done. It is known as "corpus delicti." If the defendant requires it, the plaintiff must produce a person who was harmed with actual harm, or actual property damage that was done. Then they have to prove that the defendant did the harm or damage.

Further, they need a witness to the harming and/or damaging who will swear under oath that they observed that the defendant did it.

The whole court scene is designed to get the defendant to admit to guilt. Why? Because without that, if the defendant stands up and requires the above, government loses.

Further, if government loses, Ross can come back and demand a big settlement for everything they put him through, including return of his property, bitcoins, computer, etc.

The attorneys for the defendant are officers of the court. Their first allegiance is to the court, not to the defendant. The whole thing is a process to get the defendant to sign his life away rather than to stand up and require to face his accuser, the plaintiff, who must evidence some form of corpus delicti.

The court is a sham. It is a ripoff, designed to trick Ross into giving up.

:)

I too am hoping for his acquittal, however looking at the evidence the government has so far presented against him, paired with my knowledge of Bitcoin, I somewhat doubt that he will be found not guilty.

If no additional evidence will be presented after today (this is not the case) then the burden of proof as beyond a reasonable doubt realistically has been met.

I think the same. He developed the website and the whole network but life sentence or 20 years it's too much...IMO....even 10 years is too much.

We sit over here behind our computers. Ross is over there. Neither he nor his attorneys are trained in him just standing up and requiring the things I mentioned above ^^. Attorneys generally aren't trained that way. There is nobody he knows to trust besides his attorneys. There is nobody he will believe in who can get this info to him.

If he stands up as a man, not representing himself, but rather presenting himself (making himself as a man, present, rather than being represented by some made-up fictional Ross Ulbricht along with a bunch of attorneys), and requiring that his accuser take the stand and testify, he has it made. It, then becomes man to man. But... once he starts this, he has to maintain it throughout. And it has to be his accuser that he faces - the USA. Law does not let the accuser's attorney or representative take the accuser's place when a defendant stands as a man - man to man.

Laws are almost never presented in court. Only codes are. A defendant can't be tried as to understanding a code. Why not? Because he didn't write the code. He doesn't have understanding of what the authors meant when they wrote it. That's what the attorneys are for. So, if he stands alone, without his attorneys, as a man, present not represented by anyone, and they can't find his signature on the code like a contract, they can't make it apply to him, except if there is harm or damage - corpus delicti. And even then it is not the code that applies. It is the harm or damage.

They don't have a case against Ross the man. What they are trying to do is to get him to agree with them that he did wrong. Once he agrees that he did wrong, they have him. But, he didn't do wrong as a man, because there isn't anyone who was harmed or damaged... corpus delicti.

Study http://voidjudgments.com/ to see that I am right. It's all over the court cases and the law. What you as a man believe about your case is the thing that stands, except if there is corpus delicti. If they can get him to believe that he is guilty of something, he will admit to wrongdoing. Then it is all over for him. The whole court is a charade attempting to get him to admitting wrongdoing, thereby making himself guilty.

:)

Crowdfund the jailbreak on lighthouse already :)

1st week review- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbS24ul7mCE

2nd week overview of trial - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20dmQlJFPZo

I will watch that thanks.

Well it appears based on the evidence provided that he may have sold mushrooms in the very beginning of SR1. If this was the case (and can be proven) then he will likely get a lengthy jail sentence as the amount he apparently sold was probably trafficking levels.

If all that can be proven is that he was running Silk Road then the major concern is that he was really nothing more then a forum operator. Although he was marketing his forum to people trading illegal drugs he should not be held responsible for what was sold on it

He made huge amounts of money from the drug selling business going on on his "forum" on his watch.
He was in it for the $$$ - get rich quick.

He just made the site, so fb owner should get sued for creating network where people set up drug deals easily also?

Almost anyone that creates a forum/website/business is ultimately going to be in it for the money.I don't think this facts proves/shows anything.

There are other sites that have illegal goods sold on them however their owners are not charged with similar crimes.

IF the FB users are making drug dealings, only those users will go to jail. Why? Because FB is a a social networking website that makes for you to connect and share with your family and friends online.

It was not created for selling drugs, IDs

SilkRoad = black market. it was written on their website
Shopping by category : Cannabis, Ecstasy,Opioids,Benzos and many others  ;D

Facebook is not set up to sell drugs. Thats the big difference. Silk Road's only purpose was to function as a black market for drugs, fake ID etc.

Fact is he profited financially from the drug selling eBay Website he operated.

What "other sites" are you talking about? Silk Road 2? That kid is in the slammer as well.

He also had porn section there, so maybe it was the intention and users told him to add drugs so he could profit more? Who knows  ::)
He didn't sell these drug himself so..

Facebook fights the drug selling when Silk Road was not but if R.H sold R.H early on he should not get a life sentence. A deal with the prosecution and a 5 years in jail sentence would seem like an acceptable deal for both parties at this point with the very limited informations I have.

Kind of like the drug cartel boss who doesnt sell drugs himself either..
By the way from what I read about the trial is he sold illegal magic mushrooms himself.

My guess is he'll get a 25-to-life sentence.

He did actually provide safety for drug addicted users instread of harassing them.
Source for that shrooms claim?

It was in his journal as read by the prosecutor.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/253356971/Ubricht-Trial-Day-5
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24900303/1-14-cr-00068-2015-01-22.pdf

His defense attorney is definitely looking to reduce the charges rather than a not guilty verdict.

Yeah I agree..! It was set up to assist drug dealers n stuff... Which is a crime! He should have had been more careful in this kinda stuff.. Should have named the categories a bit more vaguely.. He could have escaped done years time with that for sure!

I've searched for shrooms claim throught the documents and nothing came up...

still fundraising for remaining transcripts as they are expensive...

Here is info about shrooms from journalist -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20dmQlJFPZo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbS24ul7mCE

or if you are familiar with google you could type in "ross ulbrict mushrooms" and get this:

http://www.wired.com/2015/01/richard-bates-ross-ulbricht-silk-road/
http://www.wsj.com/articles/prosecutors-say-ross-ulbrichts-journal-reveals-secret-double-life-1421883488
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/01/silk-road-trial-fbi-reveals-whats-on-ross-ulbrichts-computer-in-open-court/

Yeah I searched for it too, couldnt find much.

Quote from the journal the FBI found in his laptop, presented in court in trial's 5th day:

"The next couple of months, I sold about 10 lbs of shrooms through my site. Some orders were as small as a gram, and others were in the qp range. Before long, I completely sold out. "

I didn't find that anywhere and i think it's bullshit that someone under this big operation that he had enought money just from running the site, why would he risk the dealing?
Makes no sense ;)

He is likely to get sentenced but he will appeal.

Well, all convicted criminals appeal their sentence, usually with little to no success.

He is indicted in a murder-for-hire in Maryland additionaly, which can still be used.


"Ulbricht allegedly agreed to pay $80,000 for the hit, half in advance and half when he had "proof" it was done.
But he was dealing with an undercover agent (UC) the whole time, and the authorities fooled him with staged images:

On or about February 21, 2013, Ross Ulbricht communicated with the UC via the Internet, to discuss the murder of the Employee. The UC told Ross Ulbricht that the Employee "died of asphyxiation/heart rupture" while being tortured. Via the Internet, the UC transmitted a staged photograph that purported to depict the Employee's dead body.
Ulbricht, upon receipt of the fake picture, then wired the other $40,000. "I'm pissed I had to kill him but what's done is done," he said, according to the indictment." - http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/10/ross-ulbricht-silk-road-murder-plot-indictment.html

he is young...he did what he did but I think 15 year or even 10 years is too much... 10 years of prison it's not 10 years on a beach.

Unlike most other criminals he does have a legit reason (actually multiple) as to what he can appeal. This is primarily focused around 4th amendment issues, however other possibilities would include things like the judge disallowing certain lines of questioning that the defense can ask witnesses

Can't help but feel a bit sorry for him.

No doubt what he did was wrong but he seems like a decent guy - apart from the planned murder of course...that's not so decent.

First post here, I'm usually at -other bitcoin forum-

Wonder if he has any assets tucked away? No doubt the money was a factor but it seems like he had ideals and a sense of adventure that turned him down this path.

It is horrible if he really did that but I think we don't have all the needed informations to make a clear judgment in this case.

check out this review of the 2nd week in the trial so far, doesnt look gr8 for ross.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20dmQlJFPZo

I don't even think the prosecution offered a deal to the defense.

 ???

Why not pay in Bitcoin, instead of wiring money ???

And why send the money before verifying by other means that the dude died, since the image might be faked ???

If it is true he deserves the prize of dumbest criminal of the recent history

Plea deals are very rarely (probably never) made public prior to them being accepted by both the judge and the defendant. He probably would not take any plea deal regardless as it would probably involve him giving up his rights to the almost $50 million worth of bitcoin, added to the fact that the allegations against him will essentially make him unemployable for the rest of his life. He essentially needs to go all in....all or nothing.....

If they offer 10 years and lost of bitcoins it would seem like a reasonable deal to consider for the defense but Ulbricht probably want to fight for justice and freedom.

It wasn't a big operation, the mushrooms were the first product on the site and that's exactly why he was growing them in the first place.

Go read the journal (http://www.wired.com/2015/01/heres-secret-silk-road-journal-laptop-ross-ulbricht/), it's interesting. It's also interesting to compare the early verbose, idealistic diary of 2011 against his later notes on running the site in 2013 (http://www.scribd.com/doc/253456456/Silk-Road-exhibits-GX-241), the latter of which (if genuine) are quite chilling. Routine stuff about DDoS attacks and PHP upgrades and whatnot is punctuated with statements like "arranged hit with angels" as though arranging a murder was just another entry on the day's to-do list.

The guy is so fucked its not even funny.

He's gone. Accept it.

If he gets 10 years although its BS that would be good news for him, with good behavior he can be out in under 7 years ? something like that.  Sucks though.

Ha, he wishes he's get offered ten years. He's going to get 30-to-life unless his defense can work miracles. Being a major facilitator of every drug you can imagine, laundering millions and attempting to get people assassinated is going to get him more than a slap on the wrist.

He's looking at 15-20, gets out after 12 and finds his bitcoins worth trillion dollars :D Happy life

How many does he even have left? Didn't they confiscate most of them? I'm sure he'd probably give them all up though if he could spare himself jail. Ross doesn't seem the type of guy cut out for prison.

He seems like an idiot for getting caught but I'm sure he managed to hide a few private keys in his granddad's basement. 

Ross did nothing wrong. I'd have whacked those sonsabitches too. Somebody give Jack Welker a call!

He doesn't have any bitcoin left. The FBI was able to confiscate 144k BTC from his laptop when he was arrested.

His bitcoin is worth roughly $50 million now, although the government did sell a portion of it at a higher price then it is trading at now so the total value may be somewhat higher

However if he ends up spending any time in jail then he will likely not ever see a penny of the money that was found on his laptop

How do you know he hasn't got any bitcoins left? Surely he didn't keep all of his coins on his laptop and has some others stashed somewhere?

In theory he could have some amount of bitcoin left, however I would find it somewhat unlikely. More or less all of Ross's property has been thoroughly searched by law enforcement. If there were private keys in digital format then they would likely have been found by now.

This would leave the possibility of Ross holding the private keys in his brain via a brain wallet, however I would find this unlikely as Ross does not seem to be the kind of person who has advanced knowledge to properly secure a brain wallet

Feel bad for the dude and how bad he has made bitcoin look. His private keys are completely wiped right? Or does he still have BTC that he is not giving up yet.

Anyone read this yet, interesting.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2ulkv7/read_the_transcript_of_silk_roads_boss_ordering_5/

Edit: Reading though this a lot just dosen't add up.
It's not until a few messages in that DPR ask R&W if he knows how to use PGP, do you really think someone running a site as big and illegal as silk road would talk about this sort of business over normal email or whatever message service they were using at the time.
R&W says he know about PGP and uses it in his daily business.
Just all seems fake to me, but as they say truth can be stranger than fiction.

Officially he doesn't have any btc left. It is very possible that the official version is true or that he doesn't have any substantial amount of btc left.

i think he already won with:

- living in the USA, i guess you shouldn't if you run Silk Road
- manage it from a public cafe, open laptop with no encryption
- paying a hitman on internet, proving the crime with a picture (loal)

if he really was the admin, he must be the winner for that prize

Ross is a complete paradox. I think he's a mastermind in some respects and obviously very clever, though it is clear he has also done some ridiculously stupid things. If you're going to run something like a darknet market you need to make sure you're paranoid to the point where it becomes an obsession for you to cover every single one of your tracks. He seemed like he didn't care about certain things and was very sloppy. He didn't even bother mixing his coins and they were traced directly to SR from his own wallet. Very foolish.

He amazing and brave person
silkroad doesnt need give a big punishment for him

he is a amzing person i really proud know about him
owner silkroad

At any time, all Ross need do is to give a written notice to the court that he is not the defendant. "At one time I thought it was to my benefit to accept the accusation that I was the defendant. But I now see the error of my ways, and, as a man, I am not the defendant."

If he presses this point, it may take a long time for them to accept that they have jurisdiction over him as a man. If he does it right, they will never gain jurisdiction.

:)