Bitcoin Forum

No, really.

Smells like MtGox all over. I hope Bitstamp and all shitty exchanges die ASAP. I hope Karpeles gets a long term in the jail.

Anyhow, breaking this low brings a huge opportunity which many will fail to see. The only problem is one buy's now and price gets to $80, there will be more time involved until it gets back to 190 and again to over 500. But it will.

Many will fail to see that. And please stop the 'free market' bullshit. When you have an 'audience' of 90% sheeps and a few shitty exchanges, with no transparency, you cannot call it free market. This is bullshit.

PS: I was terribly wrong, I was thinking that 250-270 would be the bottom.

Despair phase finally entered.

More like, the "back to reality phase" that bitcoin essentially holds no advantages over traditional payment systems aside from some "pseudo anonymity" and really shouldn't be valued more than a couple dollars per coin at best.

Other than it's faster, safer and cheaper than any other payment system, which is huge.

Check your language young man! Bitcoin is far superior than bank-enabled transfer. Decentralized.

Faster and cheaper? Of course. Safer?  Not even remotely. FDIC ensures most people have nothing to worry about when it comes to USD and banking. This industry is ripe with scammers and fly by night companies. Not to mention that with the large mining farms and dedicated TX nodes Bitcoin has become more and more centralized.

Bitcoin was a great experiment. Unfortunately it has a huge flaw in its model - the human element.

yes, bitcoin hype is over and it lost many people trust.

not sure it will rise again soon.

I wouldn't say it's over yet but yes sir, you made a brilliant point. People fucked up the whole system. I still hope those will flee away soon.

?????????????????????

What is wrong with the people on this forum? Someone enlighten me, please!

Safer? yes. No system is as safe as bitcoin. By comparison credit cards are a joke. There are scams everywhere but those who "invest" in scams are not exposing a bitcoin risk, they are the risk. The FDIC insurance does protect your money. However you could also insure your bitcoins. Like any insurance, you have to pay for it.  
I am on my third bank card in a year, but I still have bitcoins from 2011. If you do your job and secure your coins they are very safe from thieves.

We must be using different versions of the word 'safe' then. Bitcoin is as far from safe as you can get for the average person.

Plus it is negligible to the economy for hackers to steal a few tens of millions dollars a year when Uncle Sam keeps printing $65 Billion of them a month.   :P

LOL is this the real Bitstamp dump or what?

Bitcoin is as safe as it's user is tech-savvy. It's pretty hard for the masses to understand how to secure them properly and what NOT to do and why (ie, not keeping them on a freakin website)

Let's ask ourselves, who's buying the coins?  The mining co-ops are dumping them like crazy.

If one is to believe the willy bot story, then the price ride up is completely fake and without much merit - fake buy generated by the bot causing Gox to go up which in turn leads other exchanges to go up as some try to arb the difference.  Just as the bot is operating, the Chinese jump in which fuels the fire.

The Chinese are now quitting the market to play their own stock market, miners are still dumping; if the latest drop in price freaks out the VC - I don't think that would be case though, then you still got another shoe to drop and A LOT LOWER TO GO.  Btw, you still have $15 million USD on BFX that is buying coins on leverage which represents 85k BTC at current level.

Yup.



A couple very different things going on. User-end wallet security, or custodial wallet security/insurance are in their infancy. Part of the problem here is that bitcoin got too much mainstream attention too early. Too many idiots stumbled into the ecosystem before adequate idiot-proofing had been developed. We'll get there; a lot of work has been done fast - from multisig, to standard 2FA, to hardware wallets.



You meant "insures" not "ensures".

But make no mistake that FDIC insurance is somehow free. It's very costly; banks pay the premiums, which get passed on to customers in the form of fees, and furthermore, if/when the reserve isn't enough to meet losses (2008/09 anyone?) the losses are socialized (taxes and/or inflation).

Obviously you're arguing that that's better than the *current* custodial situation in bitcoin, which it may be, but again this stuff is getting rapidly better, to the point where socializing bank losses shouldn't be the optimal solution anymore.



What's new.... Bernie Madoff, MF Global, Enron, Worldcom, etc, etc.

If it's worse in bitcoin, a big part of that, again, is infancy of the ecosystem. Meta orgs (DATA, etc) are forming. Takes years.



Indeed, you shouldn't've mentioned it, cuz it doesn't matter to the points you're making, or to the ultimate viability of the system. As I (and Satoshi, incidentally) have argued, yes nodes and farms will consolidate, but meaningful decentralization should be retained over time.



Actually, it's greatest strength is algorithmically limiting the human element.

I don't think we are in disagreement. I just meant that when used properly bitcoin is very safe. But yes, if you are treating it like your FB account then you may be robbed.

Don't forget plausable deniability of ownership and bail-in proof.

No, I meant 'ensures'. You seem to be the one confused on the definition. Everything else you posted actually supports my statement.

The botto will be  zero dollar , it is obviously.  However i low price is good because a lot of people will buy some bitcoin.

There are no scammers outside of bitcoin. Yeah, sure... ???

No one ever said that.

Indeed, my mistake. I'm on a hair-trigger for people transposing those words and misread your statement. Sorry.



Well you're simply making statements about the present, whereas I'm looking at the trajectory and envisioning what bitcoin can become. The former is uninteresting to me, whereas the latter is what this whole thing is about. Honestly, the ecosystem has come a lot farther a lot faster than I would've expected. The unfortunate side-effect, as noted, has been the premature injection of, shall we say, less thoughtful folks with ridiculously short-term-minded expectations.

Now a lot of those folks have turned into bears who just look to the fact that Bitcoin is *currently* not a robust, brain-dead-simple secure, liquid, high-volume, low-volatility currency and financial system and conclude that it's fundamentally non-viable. That's just unfair, myopic, opportunistic, and a little nuts to me. But Clifford Stoll would probably approve: http://www.newsweek.com/clifford-stoll-why-web-wont-be-nirvana-185306

No problem, Mel.

I agree with you about the potential for Bitcoin. In a perfect world, it would be the only currency that makes sense. However, it simply cannot survive the onslaught of scammers, ignorant users, online security issues, and bad publicity currently prevalent. 2015 is already starting off worse than 2014. Combine the fact that there's still a few hundred thousand BTC waiting to be dumped, the Silk Road trial (which will bring negative light to the industry during it's entire run), infighting amongst developers, disagreement within the foundation, and a community literally overrun with fraud - and nothing looks positive.

There's also the fact that it now costs much more to mine a Bitcoin than it's worth, and those mining companies who make up the bulk of the network hash rate are now being pressured to dump every coin they mint. They have USD backed loans that need to be paid.

We are not in a good spot, at all.

They sold, possibly at a loss, and are very bitter about it. But you knew that.

Like I said before, Bitcoin was never supossed to depend on centralized exchanges and payment systems like Bitpay, but think... no one forced people to put their money there and support these. People wanted a way to daytrade and they, freely, agreed to fund and support such exchanges. Serves them well for trusting them and not waiting for p2p exchange technology to be available, but guess what, no one ever forced them to put their money there. It was a free decission, so at the end of the day, the core of Bitcoin is free market and they freely funded these projects, so yes, deal with it, this is free market, including shitty audiences, centralizing projects and all, the core is all working under Bitcoin which is free, so deal with it, you can't cherry pick what is and isnt freemarket.

I think the bitcoin will pump  after the next block reward halving , at the moment there isn't a reason for a pump ( I'm realistic and this is my opinion).
I don't know  "why" this dump but I'm sure we will reach again $ 150 , very soon.

Well I remember reading the same about DOGE and nothing happened with the famous havling. Of course DOGE isn't BTC but just saying.

There were 45k bitcoins traded on bitfinex in less than an hour during the big crash this morning. That's definitely not normal and I don't think dumping that many coins is sustainable. That's almost the amount of  silk road bitcoins sold at the last auction, and those were not all dumped by the auction winners within the same hour.

finex has amazing volume stats, must have picked up some customers from bitstamp after the hack.

Though I completely understand the perspective that Melbustus is coming from, I hate to say it but I am siding with Rawted on this one.  Will bitcoin recover?  Who knows, but one thing I do believe regardless is that decentralized crypto currencies will be the norm at some point in the future...was just really hoping it might take place during my lifetime and who knows, perhaps it still will.

In light of the recent plunge (a half-baked theory):

1. The massive sell-off was planned

a) Bitstamp (among others) has been fighting an entire year of slowly decreasing BTC prices. Although transaction volumes were increasing in 2014, coin value was steadily in decline. While they were making money on trading volume, the decreasing value in BTC was costing them a lot of money in sell offs, much of which was used prior to buy over inflated coins by Bitstamp.

b) In an effort to front run an engineered drop in price, 19,000+ BTC valued between ~$300-$1100 were 'stolen.' Me thinks the average price per coin was closer to $600/$800 that Bitstamp paid.

c) Price plummets and Bitstamp buys back 'lost' 19,000+ BTC at reduced price.

d) Steady increase in price in the months to follow or at least some short term positive price movement AKA Bitstamp recovers from insolvency/greedy hedging bets made in 2014.


Just a thought.