This is really fucked up

[wobber]

No, really.

Smells like MtGox all over. I hope Bitstamp and all shitty exchanges die ASAP. I hope Karpeles gets a long term in the jail.

Anyhow, breaking this low brings a huge opportunity which many will fail to see. The only problem is one buy's now and price gets to $80, there will be more time involved until it gets back to 190 and again to over 500. But it will.

Many will fail to see that. And please stop the 'free market' bullshit. When you have an 'audience' of 90% sheeps and a few shitty exchanges, with no transparency, you cannot call it free market. This is bullshit.

PS: I was terribly wrong, I was thinking that 250-270 would be the bottom.

[1715206758]

1715206758

[zoinky]

Despair phase finally entered.

[riiiiising]

Despair phase finally entered.

More like, the "back to reality phase" that bitcoin essentially holds no advantages over traditional payment systems aside from some "pseudo anonymity" and really shouldn't be valued more than a couple dollars per coin at best.

[RodeoX]

More like, the "back to reality phase" that bitcoin essentially holds no advantages over traditional payment systems aside from some "pseudo anonymity" and really shouldn't be valued more than a couple dollars per coin at best.

Other than it's faster, safer and cheaper than any other payment system, which is huge.

[wobber]

Despair phase finally entered.

More like, the "back to reality phase" that bitcoin essentially holds no advantages over traditional payment systems aside from some "pseudo anonymity" and really shouldn't be valued more than a couple dollars per coin at best.

Check your language young man! Bitcoin is far superior than bank-enabled transfer. Decentralized.

[Rawted]

More like, the "back to reality phase" that bitcoin essentially holds no advantages over traditional payment systems aside from some "pseudo anonymity" and really shouldn't be valued more than a couple dollars per coin at best.

Other than it's faster, safer and cheaper than any other payment system, which is huge.

Faster and cheaper? Of course. Safer?  Not even remotely. FDIC ensures most people have nothing to worry about when it comes to USD and banking. This industry is ripe with scammers and fly by night companies. Not to mention that with the large mining farms and dedicated TX nodes Bitcoin has become more and more centralized.

Bitcoin was a great experiment. Unfortunately it has a huge flaw in its model - the human element.

[ramkumar]

yes, bitcoin hype is over and it lost many people trust.

not sure it will rise again soon.

[wobber]

More like, the "back to reality phase" that bitcoin essentially holds no advantages over traditional payment systems aside from some "pseudo anonymity" and really shouldn't be valued more than a couple dollars per coin at best.

Other than it's faster, safer and cheaper than any other payment system, which is huge.

Faster and cheaper? Of course. Safer?  Not even remotely. FDIC ensures most people have nothing to worry about when it comes to USD and banking. This industry is ripe with scammers and fly by night companies. Not to mention that with the large mining farms and dedicated TX nodes Bitcoin has become more and more centralized.

Bitcoin was a great experiment. Unfortunately it has a huge flaw in its model - the human element.

I wouldn't say it's over yet but yes sir, you made a brilliant point. People fucked up the whole system. I still hope those will flee away soon.

[njcarlos]

Bitcoin was a great experiment. Unfortunately it has a huge flaw in its model - the human element.

What is wrong with the people on this forum? Someone enlighten me, please!

[RodeoX]

More like, the "back to reality phase" that bitcoin essentially holds no advantages over traditional payment systems aside from some "pseudo anonymity" and really shouldn't be valued more than a couple dollars per coin at best.

Other than it's faster, safer and cheaper than any other payment system, which is huge.

Faster and cheaper? Of course. Safer?  Not even remotely. FDIC ensures most people have nothing to worry about when it comes to USD and banking. This industry is ripe with scammers and fly by night companies. Not to mention that with the large mining farms and dedicated TX nodes Bitcoin has become more and more centralized.

Bitcoin was a great experiment. Unfortunately it has a huge flaw in its model - the human element.

Safer? yes. No system is as safe as bitcoin. By comparison credit cards are a joke. There are scams everywhere but those who "invest" in scams are not exposing a bitcoin risk, they are the risk. The FDIC insurance does protect your money. However you could also insure your bitcoins. Like any insurance, you have to pay for it.  
I am on my third bank card in a year, but I still have bitcoins from 2011. If you do your job and secure your coins they are very safe from thieves.

[Rawted]

More like, the "back to reality phase" that bitcoin essentially holds no advantages over traditional payment systems aside from some "pseudo anonymity" and really shouldn't be valued more than a couple dollars per coin at best.

Other than it's faster, safer and cheaper than any other payment system, which is huge.

Faster and cheaper? Of course. Safer?  Not even remotely. FDIC ensures most people have nothing to worry about when it comes to USD and banking. This industry is ripe with scammers and fly by night companies. Not to mention that with the large mining farms and dedicated TX nodes Bitcoin has become more and more centralized.

Bitcoin was a great experiment. Unfortunately it has a huge flaw in its model - the human element.

Safer? yes. No system is as safe as bitcoin. By comparison credit cards are a joke. There are scams everywhere but those who "invest" in scams are not exposing a bitcoin risk, they are the risk. The FDIC insurance does protect your money. However you could also insure your bitcoins. Like any insurance, you have to pay for it.  
I am on my third bank card in a year, but I still have bitcoins from 2011. If you do your job and secure your coins they are very safe from thieves.

We must be using different versions of the word 'safe' then. Bitcoin is as far from safe as you can get for the average person.

[Torque]

Safer? yes. No system is as safe as bitcoin. By comparison credit cards are a joke. There are scams everywhere but those who "invest" in scams are not exposing a bitcoin risk, they are the risk. The FDIC insurance does protect your money. However you could also insure your bitcoins. Like any insurance, you have to pay for it.  
I am on my third bank card in a year, but I still have bitcoins from 2011. If you do your job and secure your coins they are very safe from thieves.

Plus it is negligible to the economy for hackers to steal a few tens of millions dollars a year when Uncle Sam keeps printing $65 Billion of them a month.  

[maranello1561]

LOL is this the real Bitstamp dump or what?

[wobber]

More like, the "back to reality phase" that bitcoin essentially holds no advantages over traditional payment systems aside from some "pseudo anonymity" and really shouldn't be valued more than a couple dollars per coin at best.

Other than it's faster, safer and cheaper than any other payment system, which is huge.

Faster and cheaper? Of course. Safer?  Not even remotely. FDIC ensures most people have nothing to worry about when it comes to USD and banking. This industry is ripe with scammers and fly by night companies. Not to mention that with the large mining farms and dedicated TX nodes Bitcoin has become more and more centralized.

Bitcoin was a great experiment. Unfortunately it has a huge flaw in its model - the human element.

Safer? yes. No system is as safe as bitcoin. By comparison credit cards are a joke. There are scams everywhere but those who "invest" in scams are not exposing a bitcoin risk, they are the risk. The FDIC insurance does protect your money. However you could also insure your bitcoins. Like any insurance, you have to pay for it.  
I am on my third bank card in a year, but I still have bitcoins from 2011. If you do your job and secure your coins they are very safe from thieves.

We must be using different versions of the word 'safe' then. Bitcoin is as far from safe as you can get for the average person.

Bitcoin is as safe as it's user is tech-savvy. It's pretty hard for the masses to understand how to secure them properly and what NOT to do and why (ie, not keeping them on a freakin website)

[gog1]

Let's ask ourselves, who's buying the coins?  The mining co-ops are dumping them like crazy.

If one is to believe the willy bot story, then the price ride up is completely fake and without much merit - fake buy generated by the bot causing Gox to go up which in turn leads other exchanges to go up as some try to arb the difference.  Just as the bot is operating, the Chinese jump in which fuels the fire.

The Chinese are now quitting the market to play their own stock market, miners are still dumping; if the latest drop in price freaks out the VC - I don't think that would be case though, then you still got another shoe to drop and A LOT LOWER TO GO.  Btw, you still have $15 million USD on BFX that is buying coins on leverage which represents 85k BTC at current level.

[Melbustus]

...
Other than it's faster, safer and cheaper than any other payment system, which is huge. Faster and cheaper? Of course.

Yup.

Safer?  Not even remotely.

A couple very different things going on. User-end wallet security, or custodial wallet security/insurance are in their infancy. Part of the problem here is that bitcoin got too much mainstream attention too early. Too many idiots stumbled into the ecosystem before adequate idiot-proofing had been developed. We'll get there; a lot of work has been done fast - from multisig, to standard 2FA, to hardware wallets.

  FDIC ensures most people have nothing to worry about when it comes to USD and banking.

You meant "insures" not "ensures".

But make no mistake that FDIC insurance is somehow free. It's very costly; banks pay the premiums, which get passed on to customers in the form of fees, and furthermore, if/when the reserve isn't enough to meet losses (2008/09 anyone?) the losses are socialized (taxes and/or inflation).

Obviously you're arguing that that's better than the *current* custodial situation in bitcoin, which it may be, but again this stuff is getting rapidly better, to the point where socializing bank losses shouldn't be the optimal solution anymore.

This industry is ripe with scammers and fly by night companies.

What's new.... Bernie Madoff, MF Global, Enron, Worldcom, etc, etc.

If it's worse in bitcoin, a big part of that, again, is infancy of the ecosystem. Meta orgs (DATA, etc) are forming. Takes years.

Not to mention that with the large mining farms and dedicated TX nodes Bitcoin has become more and more centralized.

Indeed, you shouldn't've mentioned it, cuz it doesn't matter to the points you're making, or to the ultimate viability of the system. As I (and Satoshi, incidentally) have argued, yes nodes and farms will consolidate, but meaningful decentralization should be retained over time.

Bitcoin was a great experiment. Unfortunately it has a huge flaw in its model - the human element.

Actually, it's greatest strength is algorithmically limiting the human element.

[RodeoX]

More like, the "back to reality phase" that bitcoin essentially holds no advantages over traditional payment systems aside from some "pseudo anonymity" and really shouldn't be valued more than a couple dollars per coin at best.

Other than it's faster, safer and cheaper than any other payment system, which is huge.

Faster and cheaper? Of course. Safer?  Not even remotely. FDIC ensures most people have nothing to worry about when it comes to USD and banking. This industry is ripe with scammers and fly by night companies. Not to mention that with the large mining farms and dedicated TX nodes Bitcoin has become more and more centralized.

Bitcoin was a great experiment. Unfortunately it has a huge flaw in its model - the human element.

Safer? yes. No system is as safe as bitcoin. By comparison credit cards are a joke. There are scams everywhere but those who "invest" in scams are not exposing a bitcoin risk, they are the risk. The FDIC insurance does protect your money. However you could also insure your bitcoins. Like any insurance, you have to pay for it.  
I am on my third bank card in a year, but I still have bitcoins from 2011. If you do your job and secure your coins they are very safe from thieves.

We must be using different versions of the word 'safe' then. Bitcoin is as far from safe as you can get for the average person.

I don't think we are in disagreement. I just meant that when used properly bitcoin is very safe. But yes, if you are treating it like your FB account then you may be robbed.

[fallinglantern]

Other than it's faster, safer and cheaper than any other payment system, which is huge.

Don't forget plausable deniability of ownership and bail-in proof.

[Rawted]

...
Other than it's faster, safer and cheaper than any other payment system, which is huge. Faster and cheaper? Of course.

Yup.

Safer?  Not even remotely.

A couple very different things going on. User-end wallet security, or custodial wallet security/insurance are in their infancy. Part of the problem here is that bitcoin got too much mainstream attention too early. Too many idiots stumbled into the ecosystem before adequate idiot-proofing had been developed. We'll get there; a lot of work has been done fast - from multisig, to standard 2FA, to hardware wallets.

  FDIC ensures most people have nothing to worry about when it comes to USD and banking.

You meant "insures" not "ensures".

But make no mistake that FDIC insurance is somehow free. It's very costly; banks pay the premiums, which get passed on to customers in the form of fees, and furthermore, if/when the reserve isn't enough to meet losses (2008/09 anyone?) the losses are socialized (taxes and/or inflation).

Obviously you're arguing that that's better than the *current* custodial situation in bitcoin, which it may be, but again this stuff is getting rapidly better, to the point where socializing bank losses shouldn't be the optimal solution anymore.

This industry is ripe with scammers and fly by night companies.

What's new.... Bernie Madoff, MF Global, Enron, Worldcom, etc, etc.

If it's worse in bitcoin, a big part of that, again, is infancy of the ecosystem. Meta orgs (DATA, etc) are forming. Takes years.

Not to mention that with the large mining farms and dedicated TX nodes Bitcoin has become more and more centralized.

Indeed, you shouldn't've mentioned it, cuz it doesn't matter to the points you're making, or to the ultimate viability of the system. As I (and Satoshi, incidentally) have argued, yes nodes and farms will consolidate, but meaningful decentralization should be retained over time.

Bitcoin was a great experiment. Unfortunately it has a huge flaw in its model - the human element.

Actually, it's greatest strength is algorithmically limiting the human element.

No, I meant 'ensures'. You seem to be the one confused on the definition. Everything else you posted actually supports my statement.

[redsn0w]

No, really.

Smells like MtGox all over. I hope Bitstamp and all shitty exchanges die ASAP. I hope Karpeles gets a long term in the jail.

Anyhow, breaking this low brings a huge opportunity which many will fail to see. The only problem is one buy's now and price gets to $80, there will be more time involved until it gets back to 190 and again to over 500. But it will.

Many will fail to see that. And please stop the 'free market' bullshit. When you have an 'audience' of 90% sheeps and a few shitty exchanges, with no transparency, you cannot call it free market. This is bullshit.

PS: I was terribly wrong, I was thinking that 250-270 would be the bottom.

The botto will be  zero dollar , it is obviously.  However i low price is good because a lot of people will buy some bitcoin.