Bitcoin Forum

Lol for trusting bitcoinica

Hey, being a hacker is the most profitable and stress-free job in Bitcoin world. And you almost never get caught.

Yes, but you have to live with yourself.

And your other million dollar friends.  ::)

That's how you get caught.

Only paranoid men survive, while reasonable men becomes extinct.

The fate of hacker, at the end you would not be able to tell your tale.

Has any BTC hacker been caught?

Even worse: Has it ever been really tried to catch one?

rjk, You're a true retard for trusting bitcoinica and devaluing btc via short selling. They get hacked for ~48k btc and you still trust em? Then another ~18k. Complete idiots to trust em after getting hacked the first time. Short selling is bad mmkay. So FUCK YOU for using bitcoinica and devaluing btc. 

The hacker did the community a huge favor. The price of btc is up since.... so stfu and stop whining about it. You put your $$ into someone ele's hands who might I add are complete idiots and now its gone. booo-fucking-hoo.

I am sending you the bill for me to get a new monitor. Spit milk all over it! LOL!

+1

People need to take responsibility of depositing their bitcoins with anyone. I don't care if they are your mamma. You keep them bitcoins safe!

Not just because of hacks, either.  People need to remember that any of the exchanges could have their assets frozen at any time - it's insane to leave any amount of funds that you might need access to in the short.  These businesses are not insured for the loss of your funds and very few - if any - of them have the capacity to absorb any significant losses or interruptions to their cashflow.

::) ::) ::)
Look here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=86594.msg952218#msg952218

h00ters, you are spewing sentiment that very few people agree with, although one notable person who did agree was none other than the Bitcoinica hacker himself. Would you care to disclose your relationship with him, if any?

I do not care who agree's with me or not. I've done my research and come to this conclusion. This community is full of retards who THINK they know about bitcoin, when in fact most ppl dont have a clue. There is so much bullshit speculation in this community I could mop it up.

You = fucking retard. I'm not going hold your hand and show you my work and research. What other short selling services are out there? None other to my knowledge... kronos.io is still beta, thus its not active. Are there any other short selling services? Since the downfall of a service that de-values btc prices has gone up. If you can't see this, then I'm sorry you're blind as are many others. To me, there is a direct correlation to the downfall of bitconica and when btc price started to improve.

You need to stop trying to point fingers and take blame for your bad investment. Your sentiment and this thread is driving me crazy. I have been watching since this crap started to unfold. I have been in this community (not on these forums) prolly longer than most ppl. I don't like to get involved but your're clearly crying and wanting some attention.  STFU!

How many times do I have to repeat myself. I DID NOT HAVE AN INVESTMENT in bitcoinica. I did not use the margin trading facilities beyond testing it for fun with 5 BTC. I am not crying because I lost NOTHING. Please learn how to read before posting.

Also bitconicahacker: feel free to send some coin my way.

Sure, but then what?  Bitcoin has not yet been worth enough and/or held by the right sort of people to take any particularly meaningful action...as far as I know anyway.  That's something of a blessing for those of us who hold some (and know enough not to lose them) and don't really want Bitcoin's reputation to be unduly sullied prematurely with juicy mainstream news stories of extra-judicial actions.  It's got enough PR issues as it is.

in bitcion you are responsible, you have more freedom, its no us who can we trust and why, if we made fault, we loose, if not we can profit, or have better life


in fiat, goverment thinks that you are baby.. there is insurance, less and less privacy, for someone its better give up freedom and privacy, been care like a baby...

take bitcoins or leave, hacker have done very good work

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT0bKM0uxcvJDRqIKOzViCGJ6G5oOZlXOxrdKaq_T3ooguY9mP5u9VSSWBXRA
0/10

that's the best i can do...

That's all true, but this is not the appropriate context in which to bring that up. When someone gets raped and complains about what a jerk the rapist was, you don't lecture them on how to dress modestly or tell them they should stay home at night.

If you want a society free from criminal behavior, stop promoting a monetary system that creates distorted values and aberrant behavior, and stop having faith in those institutions that promulgate false authority.

Being a BITCOINICA hacker is the most profitable and stress free job in the world, and you never get caught.

You got it backward OP, let me reiterate...

How can 40k BTC + 18k BTC be untraceable or easily spendable ?

Why don't we instead agree to give the hacker an honest and untainted 30% of the BTC he moved ?
By honest I mean we know who he is, we know what he did, we're happy with it, and we respect him for both getting into your gox account and returning funds.
This "hacker" is a "somewhat" tech-savvy person that achieved something worth being rewarded for.

This is not a home invasion or a physical robbery, as much as some may hate it, if we get anything stolen because of a weak password or weak security policy then we should have no-one but our-self to blame.

I think this concept should be well understood by this community.

I feel a bit sad the first looters, knowing now that having taken only 18k, all the time have the key to 40k BTC/USD ... Sure that feel a little bit of our frustration.

I think the hacker should feel quite safe.
So MtGox knows the identity of the hacker and will file a police report to their local japanese police.
Assuming that the hacker is not Japanese, I wouldn't worry too much if I where him.
MtGox doing everything "right", does indeed help the hacker:
1) MtGox decided to protect the identity of the hacker. So no need to hurry and make some mistakes.
2) In the police reports MtGox will have to show that the hacker looked like a trusted customer, otherwise MtGox could be to some extend liable
3) ...like a trusted customer, otherwise MtGox will be regulated even more
4) ...like a trusted customer, otherwise other customers could loose trust in MtGox
5) ...like a trusted customer, otherwise MtGox has to explain, why they offer hackers some VIP instant money redraw service, while honest customers have to wait.
6) they "will" file, this could be as late as next week, this buys the hacker even more time.

All that said, it is understandable that MtGox does not really want to reveal the identity of the hacker to the public.

<tinfoilhat>
Maybe someone related to MtGox is involved.
</tinfoihat>

If you think there won't be any crime and greed in society without monetary system you are delusional. There always will be greed with inequality, and no, we will never be equal, even without money.
Root of all 'evil' is not the money, it is human nature; we can only try to better and improve ourselves.  But if you're imagining all-in-white so to speak, all sterile future/lifestyle for humankind, i'm strongly opposing such sterile dictatorship because it will be nothing more than dictatorship.

Wah wah wah speculators wah wah.

If you have to complain about people shorting your currency/stock/government bond etc then it probably isn't worth what you think it is  ;)


Why would they accept such a deal when they can pass substantial amounts through bitcoinfog and use the rest to buy hashes at GPUMAX, keeping more like 70-80% and ensuring that the stolen coins are spread over thousands of addresses?

Dear bitcoinica hacker,
I will be happy to facilitate your laundering at a fee of 25K BTC

I'll do it for 4k... 10%

Generally I agree with your posts, but in this case, that's simply a bad analogy. A better analogy would be someone who went out on a date with a guy, got raped by him and then chose to go out on another date with him anyway. In that case, yeah, you can say the victim was a complete idiot the second time around.

Except none of the victims chose anything. They were waiting to be refunded. To fit it into your analogy: Someone went out on a date with a guy, got raped by him, and then three weeks later, he broke into her house and raped her again. Now would you say the "victim was a complete idiot the second time around"?

Neither analogy really works.  People chose to leave their funds on Bitcoinica after the Linode hack and they also chose to keep them on Bitcoinica after they'd been told of the management change.  It's only after the second significant intrusion that Bitcoinica was taken offline and users had no means of withdrawing their funds.  Between the first and second intrusions, users did have options.

If you sell short you need to buy it back at some point.  It is unknown how this really affected market activity because the sample is too small.

I would honestly trust ZT, after going through with what he has now, if he came back out eventually with his new version of Bitcoinica.  He has exhibited more class than people with much more life experience.  He has proven multiple times he is trustworthy, IMO. 

From everything I have read so far ZT is not responsible for any of the recent events.  I also think Genjix/Amir has been a pretty good guy throughout this ordeal for the shit people have said about him or put him through.  I don't know these people of course other than through a screen.  I'm guessing you don't know them either though.

The hacker did no one any favors but for himself/syndicate.  If you could live w/ yourself after this of course.

icbit.se

Also, in a certain sense: bitdaytrade.com
BTC -> USD -> Gold Contract-for-difference

Yes, after the linode hack, they were completely stupid to leave any significant amount funds in there. 0 sympathy.

And to clarify, yes it's painfully obvious at this point that all involved with bitcoinica are either:

1) Complete fools
 or
2) Thieves

In either case, lack of caution on the part of those using this questionable service after the initial hack and indications that this could be nothing more than a bucket shop allowed those running bitcoinica to either prosper by running off with funds or lose a significant portion of user funds through negligence.

People need to be smarter. bitcoinica is to blame, the users of bitcoinica are also to blame. This whole fiasco is a lesson. I'd like to see them all strung up, including the users. Fools and fish will be fooled and fished. I don't think this point can be driven home hard enough.

In their (the user's) defense...since I always like to take the opposite side of an argument...there were really no other options for one who wanted to play Forex hot-shot with non-trivial sums.

I can, and do, call people who bought homes in the obviously inflated 'ownership society' market fools.  But on the other hand the only realistic option was to defer buying a home in the decade it took for things to implode and in our society (the US) one can understand how relatively few people had the combination of fiscal flexibility and analytic capabilities to avoid becoming basically entrapped.

I retain my next-to-zero empathy for anyone who lost more in the Bitcoinica goings-on than they anticipated were possible.  I personally remain willing and able to lose all of the value I have stored in Bitcoin generally, and specifically those which I have entrusted to other people (e.g., Instawallet) so my sympathy for those who differ in their mindset is minimal.  Even the core developers will tell you that Bitcoin itself is an experiment and a cursory glance at the history entities who helpfully hold Bitcoin (or other denominated value) on a user's behalf should be enough to instill a high degree of wariness.  If not, or if a person sunk large amounts without significant research, how can they deserve much sympathy?

***ding ding ding***

These people were sunk by their own greed, laziness and lack of caution.

The problem is people placing money which they can't afford to lose or to which they need near immediate access.  Look at how often there are threads about delays in withdrawals from exchanges leaving someone able to pay their bills.  Bitcoinica was inherently higher risk than the exchanges and using either it or the exchanges as a wallet only compounds the risk.  Neither's a safe place to leave your hard earned savings - solvency doesn't guarantee that they won't be shut down or have funds frozen.

And yeah, people were pleading for someone to offer the options which Bitcoinica provided and were quick to jump onboard when it first emerged (which was only in September last year).  Far too often, though, people are quick to praise something as the new best thing - how many different payment processors have been embraced by the community only for them to be rejected only months later - and complain when inherent risk bites them on the ass.

So are people fools for continuing to use Mt. Gox after they were hacked? Or do we decide who is a fool retroactively?

Directly after the hack? Absolutely. They'd still be fools to leave any significant sum in there (signifigant meaning you can't afford to lose it) or any amount for a long period of time. Mtgox has at least gone a year without a catastrophe on this level and I'd say the same there. Bitconica on the surface was drastically more sketchy and appealed to greedy fools but yeah, don't leave shit you can't afford to lose in other peoples' hands, be that mtgox or anyone else. What's so difficult about that?

 

Mark has always discouraged people from using MtGox as a wallet.  This time last year, people were putting money into MtGox, trading and taking it out before the weekend.  Then people got sick of missing out on significant movements because they had no funds on MtGox (and couldn't get any on there quickly) and started leaving them on there.  No-one's ever suggested that is wise.  Those deposits - whether currency or Bitcoin - aren't insured or guaranteed so there will always be some level of risk in parking funds on any exchange.  Even MtGox's capacity to absorb losses isn't unlimited.

Very well stated.

its quite possible the same group (or one of the 3 up to this point) already knew and were waiting for the 'no secondary auth', gox account to get loaded up nice and fat for them. ;p

not likely, but I wouldn't put it past them. Espeically the RU grp that likely took linode. them dudes be some smart cookies.

Having discovered one weakness, why would on earth would they not look for more - and why would others not also be encouraged to look for further vulnerabilities?  In the physical world, homes are often robbed twice in close succession because it's assumed that the first lot of stolen items will be replaced - often by newer items at an insurance company's expense.

It was fairly safe to assume that Bitcoinica would transfer both USD and BTC to MtGox to make the refunds - they'd been asking people to tell them their preferred method of repayment - and that they'd do so in significant amounts.

A trip down memory lane from the Linode attack thread.


I guess that question finally got answered.

So you keep all of your cash under your pillow then?  What about when you go out to eat?  Are you a greedy fool if someone breaks into your house because you didn't take it with you, but it would have been 'oh poor shock' if you got mugged while going to lunch?

+1

No, but I might keep some there; and some in my backyard behind the doghouse of my 130 pound, foaming-at-the mouth rotweiller, and some hidden in my attic with booby-trapped access, and some in my fireproof safe, and some in a bank safe deposit box, and some in the bank, and some...

I have mine protected by 100 ninja minons.

I keep mine under my tinfoil hat.

this thought keeps me up at night.....

No, I keep it in an FDIC-insured bank. Unfortunately, there's no such thing in the Bitcoin world, so beyond "depositing" which is really closer to "lending" and should be treated as such, my coins stay in my well-secured wallet.

tell that FDIC-insured thing to the people who had depsoits with MF Global or any other non standard interest bearing account for that matter.  ;p

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=what+fdic+insurance+does+and+does+not+cover

high return = high risk, etc etc. I've lost money in investments before, too. Again, the problem occurs when you give your money to other people for periods of time.

Anyone who entrusts Mt. Gox with more value than they can absorb as a loss, OR more value than they need to get a particular job done is, IMHO, 'a fool'.  This stands as a statement I believe before or after the aforementioned hack.  It also is not specific at all to Mt. Gox and in fact (again IMHO), Mt. Gox is the most proven and probably reliable entities in Bitcoin-land.  They are also one of the largest which makes them a target for some of the more threatening types of risk though.

There are all kinds of calculations which go into deciding how to place assets, and laziness is a valid one of these.  Lamentably it remains a weakness of Bitcoin that one really should be fairly bright and have a broad range of knowledge if they are going to be doing much with it.  I do hope that this changes.